Wrote Trump, on Truth Social, quoted in "Trump Plans Tariffs on Mexico, Canada and China That Could Cripple Trade/The president-elect said that he would impose the across-the-board tariffs on Day 1 and that they would stay in place until Canada, Mexico and China halted the flow of drugs and migrants" (NYT).
News of the tariffs immediately set off alarms in the three nations, with the currencies of Canada and Mexico sliding against the dollar and a spokesman for the Chinese Embassy in Washington warning that “no one will win a trade war.”
Calling it a "trade war" is itself an attempt to win. Trump is calling it an "invasion."
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The world needs the US consumer economy (almost 70% of our GDP, and 40% of global GDP) way more than the US needs the world's race to the lowest common denominator cost of production. Every attempt by our economic competitors (EU, China) to create a consumer economy like ours has failed. It would take time and anguish to reshore every job corporate America has sent abroad for the last 50 years, but it can be done. In economics, you get more of what you incentive, and the USA has been incentivizing transnational companies to send jobs overseas for that long or longer.
Tariffs are bargaining positions that Trump knows how to use. He knows that tariffs are destructive but more destructive of them than us. You wind up with a trade deal that benefits both sides instead of just them.
As a former (actually, still registered) Libertarian, I’m willing to admit I was totally wrong about tariffs. I’d like to see us return to the days when tariffs funded the whole government, which never spent more than 10% of GDP.
Good on him for announcing it this early. Let the negotiations begin. Canada may be able to hold out for awhile, but Mexico doesn't have much choice.
As of Nov 5 Trump became the President for all intents and purposes it seems.
Maybe it's like with bacon -- Canadian fentanyl isn't really fentanyl.
All three countries want access the the massive US economy and market for their benefit. Asking them to control borders and do something about incoming fentanyl destroying our cities is chicken shit. Hopefully Trumps reelection will wake up Canadians and bring Trudeau's tenure to an end.
Or beer - Canadian beer isn't really beer.
Trump's willingness to take on China and our "allies" makes you realize American politicians have been selling us out for decades. Just to line their own pockets.
"News of the tariffs immediately set off alarms in the three nations, with the currencies of Canada and Mexico sliding against the dollar"
Currency markets see Trump's statement as good for America and bad for Mexico and Canada.
Yeah, a trade war would be bad. All Canada and Mexico have to do is stop allowing an low-level invasion to be staged on their side of the border. All China has to do is stop flooding the US with fentanyl.
It will be good to have a president that cares about our country again.
And their whiskey is aged in discarded Bourbon barrels.
The early announcement is pure genius. It will achieve the desired goal even before Trump is inaugurated.
America has the natural and human resources to produce. We should be wary of indulging labor, environmental, and monetary arbitrage schemes. Tariffs are one mechanism to civilize economics. Emigration reform through enforcement of existing laws is critical to the pursuit of human and civil rights. America Civil Liberties Unburdened is intolerable.
For once I've got to disagree with you, RideSpaceMountain. Molson Canadian used to be my go to brew.
Yep
Trump strikes a blow for the domestic fentanyl industry.
You could say the same about teachers unions and government funded schools. In fact, Trump did say it. "Trump’s hope is that Linda McMahon will work to eliminate the Department of Education altogether — but then the hard work starts." Seems like just yesterday the irrational proposition posited here that naming McMahon "means Trump is keeping the Ed. Dept." Nope. Copy and paste link to the Federalist article below.
https://thefederalist.com/2024/11/25/abolishing-the-department-of-education-is-just-the-first-step-in-fixing-american-schools/
Speaking of "trade wars," if the United States ever wanted to totally destroy China without ever firing a single shot much less any nukes, all it would have to do is impose a total boycott of Chinese goods. It would collapse the Chinese economy in a few months, and the people would take care of what's left of the government. The real paper tiger is China.
Sure, Walmart, Amazon, and Costco would go out of business, but that would be a small price to pay for wiping out our biggest military and economic threat.
It will be good to have a president that cares about our country again.
That deserved emphasis.
Ah another Taranto fan, I see.
Well, how much is it worth to prevent 100,00 American deaths per year? Don't the Dems care about human life? Or is it all about trade and prices at Walmart?
Trump the Negotiator might be a good tag.
"Hey Canucks, fix your economy pronto, or we'll level Toronto!" - Donald Trump (allegedly)
"Trump is calling it an 'invasion.'"
Well, he's not wrong.
'Immivader' is one of the best recent neologisms.
News of the tariffs immediately set off alarms in the three nations, with the currencies of Canada and Mexico sliding against the dollar and a spokesman for the Chinese Embassy in Washington warning that “no one will win a trade war.”
Will that currency movement mean Canada and Mexico will absorb a greater portion of the tariff's tax incidence?
Black... All Lives Matter is a winning platform.
These business media goofballs, academic economists, and such remind me of the deluded city councilmen in the movie Jaws who just absolutely wouldn't admit that there was a shark out there eating people. Step one is to call things by its right and proper name. No more nonsense. Unlimited migration is an invasion. These drugs kill thousands of Americans yearly and it all has to stop.
We need to destroy the notion global elites have created that the U.S. is this massive pinata (imagine a tilde in there) that exists to rain down goodies on the rest of the world.
I feel bad for Canada. I’m sure their border crossings are like 1/100th of Mexico’s, but there they are, in the same boat as Mexico.
Honest question, but what happens if the entire world says “Fine. Let America and do tariffs. Everyone else will do free trade and strengthen ties, while Americans pay a 25% tax.”
I feel bad for Canada. I’m sure their border crossings are like 1/100th of Mexico’s, but there they are, in the same boat as Mexico.
Honest question, but what happens if the entire world says “Fine. Let America and do tariffs. Everyone else will do free trade and strengthen ties, while Americans pay a 25% tax.”
'if it saves Even One Life"
isn't THAT what the libs used to say.. About EVERYTHING?
. Everyone else will do free trade
free trade? with WHO? who buys this?
So demanding Canada and Mexico behave like friendly countries and help us control their Borders with us, and stop allowing illegal aliens and drugs to cross is somehow crazy and unfair.
Lets see if Mitch McConnell and his bunch of bought off Liberal Republicans and Corrupt clowns spring into action to help Canada and Mexico.
Right. I always thought that what made Obama such a bad fit for the presidency is that he essentially saw himself as an intermediary between the U.S. and the rest of the world, rather than as an unabashed advocate for U.S. interests. Trump is clearly the opposite.
I'm waiting for "X-burts say Tarriffs are always bad". Despite Japan, China and the EU all having massive tarriffs on certain goods. And the USA rising from an agricultural country to an industrial powerhouse with huge tarriffs. No, X-burts say....
Establishment reaction: "That's not going to be good for business. That's not going to be good for anybody."
Trump as Kramer: "Fentanyl and Illegal Aliens will mess you up!"
More Tariffs less bullets please.
Define "free trade". It doesn't exist if you define it literally. I think fair trade is the goal here.
That aside, Canada and Mexico are pretty easy. They gain much more by ceded to Trump. China is more complex and we are going to need help there.
But yeah. Tariffs can go south if not handled skillfully.
It's up to us to start controlling our own borders. If we were already doing that, we could lash out verbally at Mexico and Canada. Until then, a little more humility or modesty or plain honesty is required.
First the Chinese government, supplier of Chinese fentanyl exports to the US, can go to hell. Second, the truth is the non-Mexican migrants, err, asylum seekers, under law should stop in Mexico or Canada and not be allowed to transit to the US. And that is an issue the Mexican and Canadian governments have total control over. So they can follow the law, and stop the fake asylum seekers at their borders or in their countries, or their trade will suffer. I'm betting there will be improvements at both northern and southern US borders before Christmas based on Canadian and Mexican incentivization to stop migrants.
Impressed how International Sanctions invigorated Russian domestic Economy, US decides to sanction itself.
I notice that Trump hasn't announced any tariffs on the import of John Deere tractors ... which used to be made in the United States and where they are largely purchased.
Why is that?
I'm all for stopping illegal immigration and the drug cartels (let's face it, the governments of Mexico and Canada are drug cartels) ... but we need to put the companies who are unemploying large swaths of Americas to the fire.
His stated reason for the tariffs is not to protect U.S. businesses, so he's not openly engaging in a "trade war." He's characterizing 3 countries as invaders and using an economic burden to pressuring them into changing how they behave. They have 2 months to adjust and avoid the tariffs.
Canadian whiskey with spicy ginger beer is a pleasant refresher on a hot day when I want something a little stronger than a regular beer. I'd never drink it neat.
No, everybody else will become more protective and fight for the scraps.
"Mexican president announces she is stopping the migrant caravans from arriving at the U.S. southern border after Trump's tariff threat. The announcement came only 12 hours later." Just now, reported by Eric Daugherty on X.
Indeed it will. With a strong dollar, imports become cheaper, so the tariff is proportionately less of a burden on the consumer's wallet.
"I’m willing to admit I was totally wrong about tariffs."
Me too. When I was young I bought the 'free trade is best for everybody' argument. No longer. The vulnerability over strategic goods alone destroys the argument. Throw in loss of jobs and it's clear to me we have to protect our own first.
Trump used to own a football team. He knows what a play-action fake is.
Mexican president announces she is stopping the migrant caravans from arriving at the U.S. southern border after Trump's tariff threat. The announcement came only 12 hours later."
Now that wasn't so hard, was it Joe?
Do the math. In 2023 total imports were $3.83 Trillion. What would the tariffs have to be to fund the US government? Would imports rise or fall with that rate?
Increasing the price of lumber used to construct houses should do wonders for the construction industry.
And his idiocy destroyed the league. That $1 award was cool.
And his idiocy destroyed the league. That $1 award was cool.
As of Nov 5 Trump became the President for all intents and purposes it seems.
It's remarkable how cowed the Left is all of a sudden. Funny how a crushing defeat will do that.
There are a few loudmouth leftist mayors and governors still popping off, but they will soon be arrested and jailed if they dare to interfere with the Great Deportation. Academia is backing away from the DEI and trans insanity. The Get-Trump conspiracy is folding its cards and stampeding for the exits.
There has been a real change in the zeitgeist, and it's glorious to behold.
Umm... check the origin of your Medicine cabinet items lately?
What would the tariffs have to be to fund the US government?
That's my whole point. I want to drown the Federal government in a bathtub. Abolish eight or ten redundant do-nothing departments and fire about 3 million goldbricking overpaid government workers. They can go to farm country and pick fruit to replace the illegals.
Ahem...
https://apnews.com/article/immigration-canada-india-smuggling-deaths-minnesota-c8c9026ae8eb99924f19280d9672bf85
"Umm... check the origin of your Medicine cabinet items lately?"
Exactly. We have to reshore our medical supplies industry. Covid made that clear. (but, somehow, I don't think that was your point)
Increasing the price of lumber used to construct houses should do wonders for the construction industry.
It will hurt the construction industry slightly, and help the forestry industry immensely.
Ñ ñ
For decades I've I heard them say that confiscating everyone's firearms would be worth it if it saved only one life. Let's shove it down their throats.
"Increasing the price of lumber used to construct houses should do wonders for the construction industry."
Right, so let's accept untrammeled immigration and fentanyl because houses will be a bit more expensive for awhile.
Life entails trade offs. Smart people understand that.
I like the saber rattling…
Q
why immivade from the north? why not disappear into Candaian as illegals
is it not possible?
'free trade is best for everybody' is in cotext of free countries only
not disparate polities
Plus: “Economy Minister Robert Habeck said German-made steel should be protected, while standing by Germany’s commitment to secure the sector’s future with more climate-friendly production.”
Thyssenkrupp to cut 11,000 jobs at steel division in major corporate shakeup That's 40% of their workforce.
You can't make steel with unicorn farts.
"Until then, a little more humility or modesty or plain honesty is required."
This is just loser talk. Or the sort thing someone who doesn't want to control the border would say. "Sure, I want to control the border but this isnt the way to do it" . And somehow that applies to every method.
MSM will report this as an astonishing job by the Biden administration of securing the border (see how much the numbers dropped in December) and of a do-nothing Trump administration (see how little the 2025 numbers differ from Biden's December 2024).
Dixcus. Where do you get your talking points? The vast majority of John Deere products are made here in the United States. You can even schedule a factory tour.
Americans are going to get it...and get it hard once DumbTrump imposes his tariffs (which he, the "business genius" complete misunderstands).
IRC, the current mexican president has refused to reinstate the previous "remain in Mexico" agreement Trump had with the last Mexican President. This is a way to get her to work with us to control the border. But we don't want that, that would be Dishonest or something!
Here come all the economic illiterates with their Econ 101 knowledge, telling us that all Tarriffs are Bad. They be bad. Super bad. Wouldn't be prudent. prices will go through the roof! The sky will fall!
Sorry, international trade is complex. Its not simple.
Trudeau seems to be doing a good job of that on his own.
Who could turn the ultimate slur into a blessing?
Hitler, I mean, Trump can.
“We hate inflation, let's elect Donald Trump!!"
Donald Trump: "you'll pay 25% more for everything on my first day in office.”
"It will hurt the construction industry slightly, and help the forestry industry immensely."
And it will price people out of the market for buying homes. That hurts the construction industry and potential home buyers. How glib to dismiss these impacts as "slight."
But the rest of the world won't do free trade. They have more to lose than we do. Most other countries industries are more heavily subsidized than ours.
"Sure, Walmart, Amazon, and Costco would go out of business, but that would be a small price to pay for wiping out our biggest military and economic threat."
Sounds like you share the brilliant thinking of Gen. Buck Turgidson.
Whoever gave Trump a copy of the 1934 edition of the Ladybird Guide to Tariffs & Trade has a lot to answer for. The poor man seems not to realize that tariffs are imposed on the American consumers of imported products and not on the third countries that exported them.
As has already been noted in comments — Trump’s negotiating style is to open with bombastic threats in order to ‘shake things up’. Then he backs down under a blustering smokescreen. His funders in the US business community will have something to say about this latest outburst. Like his infamous wall (to be paid for by Mexico), I suspect that the ultimate result will be rather less than the initial promise.
So Trump is going to reduce inflation by increasing prices. Sounds very Reaganesque to me.
Senator Rand Paul begs to differ:
“I don’t like tariffs, but then again I don’t like the president promoting tariffs. I think tariffs are a tax on the consumer,” he said.
“I will be vocal in saying that I think tariffs are bad and that international trade actually saves every consumer about $7,000 a year. So everybody in our country is $7,000 richer because of international trade.”
Except you actually won't.
Thanks for playing LLR-demcratical Rich!
BTW, what is the post-election status of the harris campaign juggernaut? Any updates? What's happening over on Threads? (trick question! No one is over there!)
Anything special happening on Bluesky? Besides being the primary engagement platform for pedophiles?
Is X still around? I recall you telling us X would be dead by about June of 2023.
You're kind of like the Althouse blog version of Cramer aren't you?
And his idiocy destroyed the league. That $1 award was cool."
I just thought it necessary to reistate AMDG's accurate comment, particularly the crucial highlighting that Trump is an idiot.
LLR-democratical lonejustice, the dumbest of the Althouse blog LLR-democratical Brigade, appears very very upset at the prospect that Trump using the threat of tariffs to stop child trafficking into the US might be successful.
Discuss.
Gustywinds: most scotch distilleries buy once used bourbon barrels to age the scotch first prior to finishing the scotch in other used barrels such as sherry, port, etc In fact, the scotch distilleries will always buy the bourbon barrels from a particular bourbon distillery of their choice to maintain a consistent product.
Comments like this affirm my belief we chose wisely a few weeks ago…
Don't tell AMDG that! He and the rest of the dead-ender Paul Ryan-globalist suckups just don't get it, even though this has been completely, thoroughly hashed out many, many times.
Tariffs or economic blackmail. Choose.
"His funders in the US business community will have something to say about this latest outburst."
The US business community backed the other guy.
Dear Kakistocracy. You are right, of course. But the tariffs will raise the import prices, making production in the US more viable. You raise money from the tariffs. And it depends what the tariffs are on. If they're on luxury items, expensive items, then the costs are borne by the consumers of those goods - the wealthy. If they're coupled with immigration controls they'll raise wages at the bottom and likely reduce housing pressures, typically benefitting the poorer.
So, it's a bit more nuanced. An interesting book - The Roman Empire and The Indian Ocean - showed how tariffs on luxury goods - jewellery etc, financed the Roman Empire and was actually an effective tax on the rich.
"So Trump is going to reduce inflation by increasing prices."
Inflation is always and everywhere a result of monetary policy. Prices under tariffs won't change noticeably in comparison to what the printing of vast millions of dollars has done. To offset any slight increase in prices in limited segments of the economy from tariffs, Trump can just have Treasury chill the bill mills for a little while.
When you can't buy goods because our adversaries suddenly stop shipping them to us, that $7,000 is going to look pretty worthless.
Well, slightly off topic but Canada is about to get a lot more Hispanic and I'll enjoy all the hypocrisy spewing from Ottawa. What's a few bucks after the rampant inflation of the Biden years?
Apparently you only eat one thing at a time on your plate, since you can't seem to conceive of doing more than one thing at a time.
Trump has proposed a number of approaches to get control of the border and immigration. Tariffs to get cooperation from Canada, Mexico, and China are but one of those policy proposals.
Neither humility, modesty, nor honesty is required in international relations. What is required is focus on a clear policy, what it takes to implement that policy, and hopefully a policy that puts our national interests ahead of other nations' interests.
^^ Trump’s tariffs are an own goal for the US economy.
Trump’s threat could add 25% to the cost of crude from US’s biggest foreign supplier.
The best response to such economic bullying is do leave one's own tariffs on goods unchanged, rely on exchange rates to soften the blow and to reciprocally hike taxes on service sectors where the US has a comparative advantage especially digital services. And robust anti trust enforcement against large digital companies.
Tariffs work both ways…..
What may the economy look like if DOGE slashes government expenditures and tariffs fills its coffers?
"Trump’s threat could add 25% to the cost of crude from US’s biggest foreign supplier."
The only reason the US has a "biggest foreign supplier" of crude oil is that the Biden-Harris regime has crippled the domestic oil industry. Commie's gotta Commie.
Well, but. In this instance, Trump's goal is not to improve the US economy, but rather to use that economy as a club to make other nations alter their behavior. Let's not forget that this is essentially what Biden (or whoever has their hand up his ass) was trying to do to Russia with sanctions.
Under Trump USA was a net energy supplier.
Tariffs to compensate for regulatory imbalance. Credit and debt emission control to contain progressive prices. Emigration reform to mitigate immigration reform and collateral damage. Capital refunds to assure affordable services. Domestic productivity to ensure available products.
It may be premature to claim, but the climate alarm pendulum seems to be shifting from "OMG we don't care about you" to "what's best for the people on the planet now!"
Second part of this is that Germany is paying an awful price for its climate madness and it's far from over. It should damn well be a lesson to everyone who believes in windmills - or unicorn farts for that matter.
Maybe you missed the part about President Sheinbaum of Mexico affirming that Mexico was working to stop caravans from reaching the border in response to Trumps proposed tariffs.
Do I recall correctly that Cramer predicted a Kamala victory?
Free trade
"California Gov. Gavin Newsom said if President-elect Donald Trump ends the $7,500 electric vehicle rebate program, he’ll get Californians to pay for new credits. However, the credits would not include Tesla, which is the most popular EV company and the only EV manufacturer in the state."
Tariffs on finished goods can sometimes protect jobs effectively, but success requires careful design. The washing machine industry provides an example. When the US first imposed China-specific duties in 2017, manufacturers simply shifted production to Thailand and Vietnam. Only after the US enacted global tariffs in 2018 did Samsung and LG build American factories. While this eventually achieved the political goal of creating US jobs, it required comprehensive trade protection and came with higher prices for consumers.
The jobs that were created in this case were very expensive. it created about 1.8k jobs but the washing machine prices went up and the dryers as well, thus according to the WSJ each consumer paid 815k per job. so I think this is not a good example at all of tariffs working, at least that if creating jobs no matter the cost is considered a success.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_-eHOSq3oqI&t=272s
"a club to make other nations alter their behavior."
And why shouldn't we? A huge proportion of the world's countries are basically skating on the bow wave of OUR economy. Many wouldn't even have an economy if it weren't for US consumer. Take China for instance, they wouldn't even have a middle class if it weren't for the overwhelming low-cost production we basically gave them starting in the 80s. Americans should be and are done with nations that play both sides of the regulatory and economic fence. From industrial protectionism for their industries but not ours to protectionist and artificial currency pegs to the dollar, no more cake and eating it too. The bar is fucking closed.
"And it will price people out of the market for buying homes."
A little more than half the nation already is, Kook, and that's without anyone having done anything about it for the last 4 years.
Perhaps Mexico should put 30% tariffs on the US to stop guns from passing over the US border to Mexico.
Trump isn't even President yet and his tariff negotiating tactic appears to be paying off. https://www.newsweek.com/caravans-not-reaching-border-says-mexico-president-after-trump-threats-1991916
"And it will price people out of the market for buying homes. That hurts the construction industry and potential home buyers. How glib to dismiss these impacts as "slight.""
Where have you been the last four years?
We're all supposed to be living in apartments anyways, right?
"Perhaps Mexico should put 30% tariffs on the US to stop guns from passing over the US border to Mexico."
Go for it:
"…around 35% of Mexico’s GDP is contingent upon exports to the USA, meanwhile only around 1% of our stuff exports to them. Then add in the remittances of dollars to Mexico, and more than 50% of the Mexican economy is contingent upon us just being friendly to their needs."
I want to note that paying people a lot of money to produce nothing of value drives inflation.
Tariffs are Taxes just on different people.
Notice how Cook never complains about taxes on corporations raising prices on goods.Only tariffs do this according to him.
Everything from these people puts them on a stupid-evil continuum.
Every other country in the world does tariffs.
Maybe the threat of tariffs will work -- maybe it's working already -- but spreading the idea that Mexico and Canada are to blame for what we've been doing to ourselves leaves a bad taste in the mouth. We've stumbled into messes before by not recognizing our own role in creating problems and we're likely to do it again.
"not recognizing our own role in creating problems "
I don't think anybody fails to recognize what the Biden administration has done with regards to our border.
Pierre Poilievre, who is likely to be the next PM of Canada, has pointed out that Canada is not in an economic position to resist Trump. And fentanyl is a problem in Canada, as well.
I always like it when Robert chimes in on economic issues. Canada sells us their processed trees. What happens when prices for a commodity are high? Wanna guess, Robert?
"a spokesman for the Chinese Embassy in Washington warning that “no one will win a trade war.”
Then I guess you dorks had better sue for peace
Is fentanyl from Canada a thing?
Is Canada on there like, "Tag! Not racial!"?
Canada gets fentanyl from China and it does as much damage in Canada as it does in the US. Some of the Chinese fentanyl enters the US from Canada.
There’s a new sheriff in Mar-a-lago.
Other countries subsidizing their industries is a net boon to us and a cost to them. It is also the opposite of free trade.
LLR-democratical Rich and kamala-soy-boy-fan-boy Rich: "Perhaps Mexico should put 30% tariffs on the US to stop guns from passing over the US border to Mexico."
To decrease gunrunning from the US to Mexico all that is required is not vote in New Soviet Democraticals: see Fast and Furious and whatever harris/biden are calling their program.
Thanks Rich!
Cramer did in fact predict a kamala victory.
As did our Abacus Boy LLR-Democratical Rich, who told us Trump had zero chance of winning.
Increasing the price of lumber used to construct houses should do wonders for the construction industry.
You mean we're out of trees in the U.S.? Sad.
I'm an old-fashioned conservative, and people like me oppose tariffs. But, thinking about it, what I oppose is the use of tariffs to gain an economic edge on "trading partners". IT DON'T WORK! But Trump is proposing to use tariffs as tools of international politics. I don't know if that's been tried and failed -- or tried and succeeded. I'd like to learn more. Did the US sell stuff to the Japanese, Germans, Italians, etc. before Dec. 7, 1941?
Kakistocracy: "[Tariffs] created about 1.8k jobs but the washing machine prices went up and the dryers as well"
True dat, but if you rinse (pun intended) and repeat that across all industries, then suddenly we are paying more...to other Americans! for our products. And we can afford it because we are getting paid more...by other Americans! Kind of like in the 50s.
Make things and sell them to each other in our own peaceful country. Doesn't fit on a hat, but that's MAGA in one sentence.
JSM
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