He added that Ukraine “must do everything so that this war ends next year, ends through diplomatic means.”
November 16, 2024
"It is certain that the war will end sooner with the policies of the team that will now lead the White House."
Said Volodymyr Zelensky, quoted in "Trump’s victory means war will end sooner, says Zelensky/Ukrainian president said he had had a ‘constructive’ conversation with the US president-elect and he had heard nothing ‘that goes against our position'" (London Times).
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In other words, we will have a POTUS with the ability to face reality.
Oh, and Trump does not have the financial investment in Ukraine that enriched the Bidens.
Meade, break-out that Trump releasing a bird of peace t-shirt.
Zelensky can see the handwriting on the wall for Ukraine. The question is how to get Putin there. It's certainly going to cost Ukraine the territory that Russia currently occupies. Maybe Putin can declare victory wand walk away, but I doubt he will. The only lever we have is to really blockade Russia's oil/gas shipments - nothing gets out to the West. I have no idea how to enforce it, but that's better than US boots on the ground.
Should have investigated Biden when you were given the chance, bro. Das vedanya.
Ukraine has been a CIA puppet state since Victoria Nuland’s 2014 coup. Zelensky knows the rug is about to be pulled out from under him. He’s negotiating for a posh retirement in Miami Beach as opposed to the fate of Ngo Dinh Diem.
Things are going to fundamentally change. Trump is going to try to rid the CIA and the military of the neo-cons who actually want a nuclear confrontation with Russia.
Turns out waste-of-money puppet Crook Joe and his war mongering money whore Cheney losers are ---- going to lose.
So the war has gone from being a twilight struggle against the pitiless onslaught of tyranny to a lottery to see who can be the last Ukrainian killed in the service of Zelensky's ego. With a special prize for last Ukrainian hideously maimed.
A Sudanese Spring is clearly unsustainable. So, will Ukraine receive the South African treatment or divided in a two-state solution a la Serbia and Kosovo. Will Russia be satisfied with a Kiev led by Zelensky's Hamasidols?
The price of oil is about to go down again. This will cripple the Russian government who is dependent on oil export.
Trump will hold plenty of cards economically and Russia will be brought to heel.
War is actually the worst way to fight Russia right now unless you are a war profiteer.
So far none of the events of November feel like a mistake. Rather, the correction of one…
He could have left Ukraine when Biden offered him a flight out, but he stayed to fight, unlike which ever corrupt tool of the deepstate was President of Afghanistan. So I think, for all his flaws, he is a Ukrainian patriot.
All the little birdies are going to start singing in the Spring.
A lot of foreign money laundering is going to see the light of day soon.
Zelensky is a tool. Boris Johnson and Joe Biden own all of that blood and death.
In the woke of the Slavic Spring, we must remember what difference, at this point, does it make? It is a "burden" of progressive consensus. Abort. Sequester the carbon remains. Force a climate change.
I predict Trump wins the Nobel peace prize
(in spirit)
You got to dance to the tune of the one taking you home. The one who brought you got lost in the shuffle.
I bet Putin would be delighted to have an excuse to walk away with some nominal gain that he could call victory.
The war was two wars. The one on the ground and the economic one. With increased American oil/natural gas production imminent, the latter war is about to become even more disastrous for Putin.
He says it liked it’s a bad thing. Lets give peace a chance.
Trump himself has been cagey on the issue. I don't think that is accidental, he is keeping his options open. We will see.
Weren't Ukraine and Russia ready to enter negotiations before Boris Johnson sunk that possibility? My guess is there's a truce and negotiations after Trump gets in. I could be wrong, though. Trump's appointees, hardline on the Middle East, may turn out to be hardline on Russia and Ukraine as well.
FWIW, Youtube has Zelensky's 2013 Moscow New Year's show on Russian state television. Russia loved him back then.
some serious questions
* how many THOUSANDS of Ukrainians have died in this farce?
* how many TENS of Thousands of Ukrainians have been crippled in this farce?
* what Ever happened to that one commenter here? you know? the one that acted like he was a CIA operative, but was really just a 14 year old kid, living in his mother's basement? Where'd HE go?
And recognize reality. Not sure where Biden is in regards to that.
And why would they do that? Russian rule sucks, and is marked by executions, genocidal policies, and deportation of whole populations to bad places. There is nothing new about that, and the surrounding countries have memories. If you want to cry about Ukrainians, send them more weapons.
The Art of "Nudge"...
(remember "nudge"?... it was similar to "lean in".)
SOP for Trump.
We are in an era when we face a strong possibility of armed conflict with China. We have weeks (at best) of critical war supplies and the means of delivering them. Halting the war in Europe (and the Iranian/proxy attacks in the middle east) would go a long way of our resupply. THAT, in turn would make the armed conflict with China less likely.
Remember when the Iranians returned the hostages just in time to avoid a Reagan response, or perhaps just late enough to sink a 2nd Carter term? Is Putin smart enough to keep his own head?
The world is already making pre-inauguration adjustments to Trump. Here in America, the Democrats and their communications division we call 'the media' are still at war with all of America that voted for Trump. And still attacking Trump.
The world is getting ready to come to meet Trump, to get the world moving forward again.
Our progressives still think they missed it by that much.
i don't think you read me "chuck" i do NOT support giving weapons to Nazis
I say Trump is going to win the Nobel peace prize!
(in spirit)
So much winning and ain’t no ways tired.
All Trump needs to do is shut down the rampant, shameless, naked commerce that's been going on for the past 4 years, then everyone will lose all interest in continuing the conflict. Dumbest war ever.
I think all Russia wanted in the beginning, before the overthrow of the democratically elected pro-Russian president in 2014, was control of Crimea and no NATO on their doorstep. Then the U.S. and UK, with other EU support, started fucking around. The Ukraine was left holding the bag.
IMHO, the Russian nation is paranoid and yet no nation wants to repeat Napoleon's or Hitler's mistake in the Rodina. The West FA with the Bear and Ukraine had to FO. I would hate to see a true partition of the Ukraine.
Literally Hitler, eh. That chicken has been royally flucked by the Democrats, I am not sure you want to join that train.
Conditions are so different now than they were when Trump said he could "end the war in a day" that it is almost like a different world. Zelensky keeps doing this fan dance with the prospect of building a nuke.
First he tells Trump that if the US pulls out, Ukraine is going to build a nuke. Ukraine denies it plans to build nukes.
The plans on how to build said nuke get leaked.
Ukraine denies that they are going to actually build one.
One source who has been right most of the time concerning military issues in the war, at least that is how he is described, says that Ukraine has a team working on the problem of building a nuke right now in a Soviet era deep underground bunker near Romania.
It seems like actually carrying such a plan to fruition would require a large program that everybody in the world with any kind of satellite surveillance would be able to detect, so it''s probably a bluff.
But... Zelensky was talking about building nukes in front of both the Russians and Kamala Harris, and Harris just giggled about it.
The US is required, under the nuclear non-proliferation treaty, to sanction any country that is developing nuclear weapons outside of the treaty regime, so Zelensky knows that even if the US finds out, the Americans can't really do anything about it without giving up hope of creating a platform for a first strike nuclear decapitation of Moscow. Oh, BTW, two weeks after Zelensky made this threat, Russia invaded.
It's not paranoia if they really are out to get you. Russia has been invaded by the Mongols, the Swedes, the French, and the Germans. NATO has been repurposed from its original defensive justification to an every expanding aggressive military bloc that has overthrown governments in the Middle East and Africa, and even allowed in states that openly celebrate naziism, that would be Estonia and Lithuania, just to give Moscow heartburn.
If we are climbing into bed with honest to God, stiff arm saluting, shall we call them "ultranationalists" are we really on the right side of history?
"the surrounding countries have memories.."
Yeah, over stuff that happened 100 years ago, done by a country that no longer exists, and which granted Ukraine independence, as it fell apart, of course this did not include the right to join a military bloc hostile to Russia.
As for whether there are literal nazis in Ukraine, just us DuckDuckGo and set the date range to the time of the Maidan coup, and search on Ukrainian Nazis, and you will get lots of hits, here is one.
MARIUPOL, Ukraine — A volunteer brigade with self-proclaimed Nazis fighting alongside government troops against Russian-backed separatists is proving to be a mixed blessing to its cause.
Though the 900-member Azov Brigade adds needed manpower to repulse the rebels, members who say they are Nazis are sparking controversy, and complaints of abuses against civilians have turned some residents against them.
A drill sergeant who would identify himself only as Alex wore a patch depicting Thor's Hammer, an ancient Norse symbol appropriated by neo-Nazis, according to the Anti-Defamation League.
In an interview with USA TODAY, he admitted he is a Nazi and said with a laugh that no more than half his comrades are fellow Nazis. - USA Today, 2015
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2015/03/10/ukraine-azov-brigade-nazis-abuses-separatists/24664937/
It's all very interesting. Yes, we live in interesting times.
Wait, wait. How can Putin’s puppet mediate an end to Putin’s war of conquest? This does not add up.
The US is also required, under the Budapest Memorandum, to help Ukraine defend its 1991 borders, but 'Jaq' doesn't give a damn about that. And neither does whoever is running White House Ukraine policy. Nine-tenths of the aid promised and appropriated by Congress this year hasn't been delivered, including the Patriot battery promised in June. And the US just retired 152 Blackhawk helicopters in Europe and has been trying to give them away to various foreign countries, while refusing to allow Ukraine to buy them for cash at their full value, though they need them more than any of the other countries.
Of course, when 'Jaq' calls someone a "source who has been right most of the time" about any subject whatever, and doesn't give a link, or even name the source, we know it is no such thing.
A similar change of heart and hope followed when Trump replaced Obama, and confronted his legacy of ethnic Springs in the Middle East. Also with a Russian consensus and material support. Here's to a Slavic Summer.
Why would Putin want to walk away with nothing but a little territory and the certainty that NATO is going to come back and do the same thing in the future after it has a chance to correct its mistakes and arm up Ukraine again? Already the US is behind more color revolution attempts on Russia's border, this time in Georgia (the country), which passed a terrible law! That law said that foreign agents involved in politics in Georgia, including NGOs like the ones Soros funds, must report the source of their funding.
That's right, that's the law, and for this the US and EU are sanctioning the country, and backing a color revolution in the streets of their capital right now.
Oh yeah, and the other bad thing the Georgians did was to elect a government that would pass such a terrible law. It "goes against EU values." It's a "Russia style law." Of course the US has a very similar law, the Foreign Agents Registration Act, or FARA, but ignore that!
Anybody who thinks that Putin would be happy to walk away with scraps has been getting their news from the hookah pipe, because the fronts are collapsing now, as we speak, and it's not the Russia side that is collapsing.
This war was among the stupidest things that the neocons ever did.
The US, under Budapest Memorandum was required not to use economic coercion against Ukraine, and guess what? It did, sanctioning their pro-Russian, at the time, government. The US tore up Budapest.
But face it, Ukraine was never any of America's business. Russia has never done anything to the United States by help us defeat the Nazis and sell us Alaska.
They took the other side in some wars we were fighting on their continent is about it. Wars that were none of our business. They never took the other side in any wars in our hemisphere.
The rest of those nuclear threats and walk backs, the Zelensky fan dance, are matters of public record. Even if you throw out that anonymously sourced tidbit, that came from a video, and sure, it might be fantasy, but even if you throw it out, just from Zelensky's three public statements, well two, and one leak to the media, it makes perfect sense that he has a project going on to develop a nuclear warhead. It's an obvious strong inference.
Answer my question, 'Jaq': who is your "source who has been right most of the time"? And why do I always have to ask you twice when your write things like that? Why can't you quote them up front? Because they're always 'sources' like ZeroHedge or Kim Dot Com?
Kievan junta threats of Nuclear warfare means using 'dirty bombs'. Kievan junta has a hold on great quantity of Nuclear material.; they still control 2 or 3 atomic power stations. Now they threaten to strap Nuclear material to a few sticks of dynamite and drop these loads on Moscow.
How about this report from German State TV"
- The Russians advance every day in many places
- Ukrainian soldiers run away
- Ukrainian soldiers commit suicide
https://x.com/simpatico771/status/1857486144251847066
This is what losing looks like. Ukraine should have taken the deal offered by Putin in March of 2022, they said, "no, we would rather fight." Well, this is what fighting looks like, and what losing looks like, and it can't go on for much longer.
I feel terrible for what my country has done to Ukraine, leading them down the primrose path, sacrificing them as canon fodder, because Putin told us to stuff it when we asked him to help us isolate China. But you? You just want more and more of them to die.
If you are mad that we won't sell you helicopters, well, that's what being cut loose looks like. Russia is an order of magnitude more important to the US than Ukraine. Ukraine is a backwater that only has any importance at all because of its proximity to the country that matters in the region, which would be Russia.
Ukraine should have taken the deal to be at the crossroads of trade between Europe and Asia, which it is very well situated to do, trade with everybody, live in peace, but I don't know, I haven't read Mein Kampf, so maybe there is a reason in there that such a way of living would be an affront to Ukrainian dignity.
I think my favorite part is where the Ukraine supporters say that the US would *never* overthrow Ukraine's government in a coup, just to get at Russia, but we need to create a coup in Russia to overthrow Putin.
Speaking to CNN anchor Jake Tapper, however, Bolton suggested Trump was not competent enough to pull off a "carefully planned coup d'etat," later adding: "As somebody who has helped plan coups d'etat - not here but you know (in) other places - it takes a lot of work. And that's not what he (Trump) did." - Reuters
It's Kyiv, not 'Kiev', it's a functioning democracy, not a 'junta', and Ukraine is only considering building nuclear bombs because the US and UK have demonstrated that thirty years ago Prime Minister Kravchuk was a damned fool to listen to Bill Clinton and John Major and give up the ones they had. Plenty of other countries that hadn't planned to build nuclear weapons are now considering doing so due to the US's betrayal of Ukraine. I've read that Japan, South Korea, Taiwan, Poland, and Sweden are among the most likely. All because the turd in the White House can't be bothered to supply more than 31 M-1 tanks of the thousands we have, or any F-16s of the hundreds we have gathering dust in the desert. Ironically, Biden's (or Jake Sullivan's) attempt to keep Russia from collapsing into revolution, anarchy, and civil war is likely to fail, and the collapse is likely to be far more gruesome and violent (and quite possibly nuclear) than a simple defeat and withdrawal from Ukraine would have been.
Beyond Biden, this goes back to the Obama-era monkey business that brought Zelenskyy to power. They'd have to admit they made grave mistakes, but the current Democratic leaders believe they are always on the right side of history and never ever wrong about anything. So they can't.
Trump is the Nolan Ryan presidency. Ryan never got a Cy Young Award. One of the best pitchers of all time.
Why won't 'Jaq' answer my question? Is he ashamed of his source?
And does he really not know that the measly Russian advances in the south are coming at a stupendous cost, 1500+ killed or wounded every day? That the Russians themselves calculate that new recruits average 12-18 days from the day they sign the contract to the day they are killed? That it is in fact the Russians who are killing themselves in huge numbers? That Russians at the front complain that everywhere they go there are mutilated corpses of Russian soldiers every few meters?
By the way, when you write "If you are mad that we won't sell you helicopters" you seem to be saying you think I'm Ukrainian. No, I'm not. Are you Russian? That would explain a lot. Or just someone whose wife/girlfriend/boyfriend/husband dumped you for a Ukrainian?
I don't know enough to figure out what the contours of a settlement of the Russia-Ukraine War might be. What I think is pretty obvious is that the biggest (only) winner in the war so far is NATO.
Do you remember, before 1991, there was this country called the Soviet Union? Which threatened to conquer the world, or at least western Europe.
So the US and practically all the nations of western Europe created a defensive alliance called NATO to block a Soviet invasion. But we weren't sure the NATO defense would be enough, and there were these nightmares about the Red Army driving through the Fulda Gap, and western Europe falling again, just as it had to the Wehrmacht.
And now we know that Russia is NOT the fearsome Soviet Union -- it can't even conquer a third-rate military power. Oh sure, NATO has been supporting Ukraine, but not with troops. It's like the guy who says I could beat you with one arm tied behind me -- and then kicks your ass.
Russia is not the USSR, and it hasn't been able to conquer Ukraine, a third-rate military power, aided by NATO, sure, but without NATO troops.
A peace settlement would obviously benefit Ukraine, particularly if the US and Europe help them rebuild. It might require some border "adjustments" in favor of Russia. Tough for some folks who live there. But for most Ukrainians - peace. My guess is that it will take Trump more than 24 hours to work out the details -- I also think that process is already underway.
It's absolutely fascinating how confident Voldemort Zelensky is. Apparently his generals bring him fantasy numbers from the battlefield, which is why he thinks only 35000 Ukrainian soldiers are dead. Anyone who can do basic math realizes that in reality three Ukrainian armies are dead, and now they plan to use women and the 18-25 demo to completely destroy Ukraine as a nation.
Why would President Trump ever go along withe the neocon plan to do this? Why would he want to autograph failure? He won't, but there are a great many ways to BRUTALLY weaken Europe while pretending to fight Russia. MAGA, small hatters.
Yes, also Russia, the second in command of the Wagner group was a self proclaimed Nazi. The Azov group was cleaned up and integrated into the AFU, not so Wagner in Russia. Heck, neo-Nazi groups showed up all over Eastern Europe and Russia after the collapse of the Soviet Union. IIRC, there were even skin heads in Israel who came into the country with their immigrant Russian parents.
And no, Russia isn't all that different than it was 100 years ago. The 69 years of the Soviets was more of a throwback. There are new mass graves outside of Mariupol, they aren't filled with Nazis.
Governments have collapsed in Germany, France, the UK, and now the USA. The sanctions not only failed, but President Trump can add onto them for maximum damage against his enemies in Europe, at which point enemy politicians will be lynched outright. Does NATO have money to "rebuild" Ukraine or repatriate refugees? Not even theoretically, before taking mass corruption and total Russian disinterest into account. The Donbas will be fine: the Ukraine, not so much.
What amazing ignorance of recent history!
Zelenskyy was elected in 2019, long after Obama had left office. After the popular uprising in 2013-14 that overthrew the democratically-elected but brutally fascist Putin-puppet oligarch Yanukovych, they had elections which Poroshenko won. He was in charge when all the Hunter Biden shenanigans went on. Ukrainians seem to have been embarrassed by his corruption, because they voted him out in favor of a non-politician, Zelenskyy, and did so by a huge margin (73% in the runoff). Obama had nothing whatsoever to do with Zelenskyy's rise to power. As I have noted before, to deafening silence from the usual Ukraine 'experts', Zelenskyy is in fact Ukraine's Trump, a non-politician elected because the public were sick and tired of corrupt venal politicians like Obama and Biden and Poroshenko.
"it's a functioning democracy,"
Ha ha ha ha ha! Good one, almost as funny as your credulous recitation of Kiev's made up casualty figures.
до свидания -- Dasvidanya
Or just say bye or bye-bye. пока or пока-пока (paKAH)
Poka-poka can be friendly, or insolent, or even meaning someone (unimportant to you) is dead.
"Yes, also Russia, the second in command of the Wagner group was a self proclaimed Nazi."
Yeah, OK. There was a picture floating around on Twitter of some guy who the Ukrainians claimed was him.
"The Azov group was cleaned up and integrated into the AFU,"
I am sure that that is what they say. I don't see any reason to believe it though. Per USA Today, in 2015, 50% of Azov were self admitted Nazis. They are all gone? Well, Russia did kill a lot of them in Mariupol. Right now Trudeau is blocking the release of the names of a whole bunch of Nazi war criminals who escaped to Canada to live normally, because, he said, to release these names would hurt Ukraine.
I don't get sticking up for Nazis. And don't look any too close at Latvia and Estonia, either.
The biggest Russian nazi was US funded Nalvany, who we paid to stir up trouble for Russia. Google his rallies, it's almost always his rallies that Ukrainians use to accuse Russia of being rife with nazis. We use nazis, same as we use terrorists, because morals do not come into play in geopolitics.
As I have pointed out before, Britain was in fact a functioning democracy in World War II, even though Churchill stayed in power several years beyond the time at which an election would have been required if there hadn't been a war on. Do you deny that? If you do, you're a fool. If you don't, you're a hypocrite not to apply the same standard to Ukraine.
As for Russian casualty figures, it's easy to determine whether they're "made up" or not. Someone on Twitter, for instance, had a picture of the war monument in a Russian town with a population of 8,100. There were 100+ names on the brand new monument. That's just one clue that the Russians are in fact losing vast numbers of men in the war. Again, Russians are all over Russian-language social media complaining about their casualties, their 'meat assaults', their commanders who don't care, etc. Anyone who wants to know the truth can easily find out. 'Jaq', or whatever he's going to call himself next, doesn't want to know.
2014 was the second US backed coup in Ukraine. The first was 2004?2005? It was the Orange revolution. That's why Russia was tired of Ukraine in 2014. They took Crimea back and started the process of reshoring their military contracts Russia has with Ukraine factories. They also backed the Donbas' rebellion to leave Ukraine.
I guess I just figured that if you felt so comfortable asking so many Ukrainians do die over the insult to their dignity of allowing ethnic Russians to live in their ancestral homes and speak their ancestral language, and to be a neutral nation, like Switzerland and Austria, well that's worth them dying for.
My main concern is the interests of the United States of America, and we don't have any legitimate interests in Ukraine. Even Barrack Obama said that, all the while his vice president was cooking up a coup there. The other interest is not starting a nuclear war over some trivial border war on the other side of the globe that's none of our business anyway.
That kursk hail mary didnt actually work
Why is black rock all in on ukraine, well bad judgement but there is something more to this
It didn't? It's been more than 100 days, two deadlines have passed, and the Russians aren't any closer to recapturing Kursk, despite losing hundreds of armored vehicles and tens of thousands of Russian (and now North Korean) troops. Why are people so confident in their ignorance, repeating obviously false statements from god-knows-where?
Ukrainians of any ethnicity were always free to speak Russian, and I'm told most in Odesa still do. On the other hand, one of the officials in occupied Donbas was recently boasting about how anyone heard speaking Ukrainian is beaten and jailed. As usual, every accusation against Ukraine is pure projection. They've also destroyed all the Ukrainian-language books in occupied territory. And 'Jaq' just keeps repeating their vicious lies. I think his boyfriend/whatever must have run off with a Ukrainian. He's certainly never denied it.
They drove the rightfully elected politician out of office in 2014. Then they sent the Azov battalion into the regions that voted for Yanukovich and murdered Russian ethnics for 5 years.
Then shockingly after killing and persecuting the opposing political party voters the people who supported the Azov battalion won the next election.
Zelensky ran for election promising to sign the Mingsk accords. Then he later reneged on that promise at the behest of Borris Johnson and Joe Biden. After getting elected Zelensky started throwing his political opposition in jail. Then he started throwing reporters in jail. Then he started throwing priests in jail. Of course this was just a continuation of the repression that the US supported where Western Ukrainians committed ethnic cleansing in Eastern Ukraine.
It is really shocking how depraved and dishonest the warmongers are.
I'm not sure I totally agree with this analysis. It's true Russia wants control of Crimea and no NATO on the border. I think Trump's resolution would have left Crimea with Russia and Donbas as autonomous regions. It's too bad the western governments shot down that proposal.
But if you look how Putin invaded, it's clear he was hoping to force into reality a Greater Russia running through the Russian speaking parts of Eastern and Southern Ukraine, through Tranistria and into Russian speaking parts of Moldavia.
The British didn't hold any elections based upon an agreement of all political parties. Churchill did not outlaw the opposition parties and arrest their leaders. Britain did not cancel any constitutionally scheduled elections.
Dr Weevil is somewhat correct. Yanukovich was a corrupt and normally authoritarian for that area. He was up for election in December 2015. He withdrew the legislation to move closer to the Russian economic sphere and to let people decide at the next scheduled election. He was still overthrown by pro-western forces. He was not a fascist. He favored stronger ties to Russia. The Ukrainian fascist are supporting the western backed Ukrainian governments.
Zelensky was an outsider candidate. He shot to fame as a comedian who played an Ukrainian president who fought the oligarchs and corruption. But he is no Democrat. Long before the invasion, he was locking up his political opponents and charging them with treason.
Immediately after the invasion, he outlawed almost all political parties in Ukraine (including the pro-western main opposition party). But took no steps against the far right and fascists parties, located mostly in Western Ukraine. And if course he cancelled all elections and is now serving as a dictator.
Dr Weevil believes Ukraine has taken Kursk!?! The Kursk salient is a few villages along the Russia/Ukraine border. It's true that seizing on Russian territory was another huge black eye for Putin. But don't confuse a propaganda victory for a strategic victory.
"It is certain that the war will end sooner with the policies of the team that will now lead the White House."
Isn't that one of the saddest headlines you'll read today.
"It is certain that the war will end sooner with the policies of the team that will now lead the White House." Doesn't this suggest that Trump has told Zelensky that the US is going to (1) commit to the continuing viability of a Ukrainian state, and (2) threaten Putin with adverse military consequences should he go for broke? The only tools Trump has are threats and commitments. What other threats and commitments can Trump make?
I am of course well aware that Ukraine has not captured Kursk city or all of Kursk oblast. Maybe I should have written "aren't any closer to recapturing Kursk oblast", but I assumed (a) that you knew what I meant, and (b) that you wouldn't be bold enough to try to misrepresent it.
Is the number of square miles captured by the Ukrainians in Kursk larger or smaller than the number of square miles captured by the Russians in the south? I don't know, but I do know that those who pretend that the one is minuscule and the other is gigantic are liars. I've also noted before that the town of Sudzha has a train station with a control room that allows the Ukrainians to plug into the entire Russian rail network as long as they hold the town. The automated tracking system in modern railroads tracks every single car in real time as it passes sensors on the track, and can only be turned on or off as a whole.
Zelenskyy could not have been "locking up his political opponents and charging them with treason" "long before the invasion" because the Russians invaded Crimea and the Donbas in 2014 and he wasn't elected until 2019. And there have certainly been traitors in Ukraine caught red-handed sending the Russians information on locations of military units and such. Arresting such people for treason is perfectly reasonable. You know who did lock up his political opponents? Yanukovych, the guy who fled the country in 2014 after slaughtering unarmed demonstrators in large numbers. His opponent in the 2010 election, Tymoshenko, refused to concede, accused him of cheating - he undoubtedly cheated in the 2004 election - and he locked her up for the entire time he was in power.
It is also simply false to say that Zelenskyy "outlawed almost all political parties in Ukraine". As I have pointed out here more than once, there are still 8 parties in the Parliament, 3 pro-Zelensky, 3 anti-Zelenskyy, and 2 neutral. And most of the members of the 3 openly pro-Russian parties that were banned (a lot less than "almost all") are still in Parliament, having founded new parties with more discreet platforms. Does that make him a dictator? Sir Oswald Mosley, leader of the British Union of Fascists, was locked up during World War II, and that sure as Hell didn't make Churchill a dictator.
Since when are there any "far right and fascists parties" in Ukraine? Ukrainians on-line like to point out that they don't have anyone in their Parliament like Marine Le Pen or the German AfD, and that Jews and Israelis have absolutely no fear of being beaten up by Muslim mobs in Ukraine. And yes, they do have Muslims, including the Defense Minister, a Crimean Tatar.
Nor did he 'cancel' elections, he postponed them, as required by the Ukrainian constitution, and as Churchill did in World War II. Why do people keep repeating easily-disproven falsehoods?
To add on to Bill RoT regarding UK in WW2: not only did Winston tolerate the opposition, he brought them into his government, since the wartime domestic controlled economy was pretty close to what Labour wanted to do all the time. By doing so, he made the bed for his own political defeat: people got to see Labour politicians performing in government, and they associated socialist policies with victory. A far far cry from Zelensky.
JSM
Zelensky has:
- jailed political opponents.
- reneged on promises to sign the Mingsk Accords
- jailed reporters
- jailed religious leaders
- cancelled elections
- used Azov battalion Nazis to suppress his political opponents in eastern Ukraine.
-It is still undetermined whether it was the US or Ukraine that attacked the Nordstream pipeline.
These things all happened. Period. Zelensky and Putin are on the same moral level.
The only US interest in this is the tax payer dollars that the uniparty laundered through Ukraine to itself through corruption and war profiteering.
None of what Achilles just wrote is even a half-truth: a few items are quarter-truths. Of course, reporters and religious leaders who are actively aiding an invading army in war time, or committing war crimes, can and should be jailed, and should be grateful if they're not shot or hanged. And there are more than two possible answers to the question of who blew up the Nordstream pipelines. I think it's hilarious that so many here who insisted it was an absolute fact that the US did it (Victoria Whatsername said so!) later insisted that it was an absolute fact that Ukrained did it (the Wall Street Journal said so!) and can't figure out that if both can't be true (WSJ said the US tried to stop them) then it's not necessary that either one be true. And the "political opponents" of Zelenskyy in eastern Ukraine were in fact Russian soldiers and a few local collaborators making war on Ukraine and committing terrorism against the local population. The man who started the supposed uprising was a Russian (Igor Girkin) and one of the first things they did was attack the local Jews and Gypsies, like the pro-Russian Nazis they were. Achilles knows nothing.
If true this is fantastic news. Time will tell.
It does not suggest (2). Potentially it does suggest (1). Option 2 is an empty bluff that everyone knows. Ukraine is not a part of NATO, there is no mutual defense treaty with Ukraine. Congress would not authorize a general mobilization against Russia to defend Ukraine and anything less than that would be useless. It would be just another empty "red line" threat. About as useful as saying 'Don't' in a TV interview.
If, and I don't think it was, but IF that is the threat that is intended to end the hostilities over there, then that is some beyond amateurish diplomatic strategy. About on par with how things have been handled for the past few years.
If the official language of government is Ukrainian, as Kiev demanded, going against the Minsk treaty that it had committed itself to prior to the war, well that means that every politician, every government official, every police officer, etc, will be Ukrainian, even if the population of a region is Russian, as it had been for centuries.
As long as Ukraine continues to provide fresh meat for the grinder in Kursk, Russia will be happy to oblige them.
You need to read your post Weevil. Think about how someone else is going to interpret your words.
Normally I feel bad for people who destroy themselves. But you are a lying war monger chickenhawk POS. I wish you would go fight Russia instead of feeding Ukrainian men into the blender.
Thanks for the response Aught Seven. I agree that Trump can't threaten direct US military action. But aren't there some weapon systems that we have withheld from the Ukes? The war has revealed Putin's high tolerance for Russian casualties, but even Putin has limits. I lack the expertise to offer specifics.
Sooner or later, people end up being mouthpieces for the propaganda of one side or the other. It's the same with the Middle East. I just hope Trump's administration will be able to end these wars.
I've reread my post and stand by every word, Chickendick. (I could have called you Thersites, but that would be an insult to a man who was braver, kinder, far more intelligent, and probably handsomer than you.) I am not in fact eligible to serve in the Ukrainian foreign legion, nor have I ever suggested sending American troops to Ukraine, as a 'chickenhawk' would, nor are the Ukrainians asking for American or other foreign troops, just weapons they can use themselves. Why do you and other chickendicks keep making the same refuted allegation? Are you stupid, or are you paid to do so?
Anyone who thinks cutting off the weapon supply to Ukraine will save Ukrainian lives is a moron. The Russians are openly talking on state-controlled TV about capturing the entire country, drafting all the young men to solve their own severe manpower shortages, and invading Germany with their new expanded and experienced army. The fact is that not helping Ukraine makes World War III, and American deaths in Europe, far more likely.
Russia has specifically rejected the idea of keeping only the areas with Russian-speaking majorities, which was not even all of the two Donbas provinces, but have annexed five provinces, two of which (Kherson and Zaporizhzhia) are Ukrainian-speaking, and four of which they do not currently control all of. (They want those two for a land bridge to Crimea.) Do you seriously think Ukraine should hand over all of those five provinces, and put millions more Ukrainians under Russian occupation? They're already torturing, raping, and murdering the civilians in the areas they have captured, beating anyone heard speaking Ukrainian, destroying all Ukrainian-language books, drafting Ukrainians to fight their fellow-citizens, not to mention using poison gas, shooting prisoners-of-war, and bombing hospitals and apartment blocks, often with a 'double-tap' to kill the rescure workers. (They're also looting all the houses near the front in Kursk oblast, including the ones Ukrainian soldiers never came near.)
The only "war monger" here is you, Chickendick. The only way this war ends is with a victory for one side or the other, and Russian victory would lead immediately to an invasion of Poland, Finland, or the Baltics. Only a decisive Ukrainian victory can bring peace. I suppor that, as does any decent and well-informed person.
Ampersand:
Indeed there are weapons that could easily change the balance very quickly in Ukraine's favor. We have hundreds of M-1 tanks lined up in the desert gathering dust. It's cheaper to transport them to Ukraine than to dismantle them and dispose of the parts according to EPA regulations, as will surely have to be done eventually. So far we've sent them 31 M-1s, for a 600-mile front! The Ukrainians love them, and the Bradley fighting vehicles, because even when they are seriously damaged, the crew survives (unlike Soviet model tanks, where the turret blows off and incinerates everyone inside) and they can be towed off the battlefield, put back together, and go back for more.
We promised F-16s. Again we have hundreds lying around unused, and have supplied zero. They have 10 supplied by the Dutch, and another ~20 coming from Denmark and I forget the third country. The ones they have were very effective last night shooting down Russian missiles aimed at civilian targets. (Russia's response to Schulz's phone call to Putin was to put on the biggest missile/drone attack in many months.)
If Trump, as president, were to tell Putin to start pulling out of Ukraine or he's going to send them 300 M-1 tanks, 300 Bradleys, and 100 F-16s, with more to follow, and also give them permission to use the US weapons they have to attack targets in Russia, that would certainly get Putin's attention. (Biden, or Jake Sullivan, or whoever's in charge, won't let them use the weapons we gave them to hit the bases of the bombers that are slaughtering Ukrainian civilians every night. Insane!) By the way, our refusal to allow them to use our weapons is having a terrible effect on weapons sales: US allies are seriously reconsidering buying American weapons in the future.
I dunno what Zelenskyyyyy means when he says it will end with diplomatically since Ukraine has refused to cede territory to Russia, even Crimea. There's no way in hell Putin will make peace and give back any of the territory taken since 2014.
These territories were officially incorporated in Russia. And he's not giving them back anymore than Israel will give back the land it stole from the Palestinians or Syria.
But the sooner this bloody, unneccssary war ends the better. And we'd better not be on the hook to defend Ukraine in the future. Its outside our sphere of influence, even though the neo-cons want endless committments, and endless war.
The bleeding out of the Ruzzian war machine (Soviet equipment consumed, war and heavy, loss of 1.2 men leaving Ruzzia), gas weapon neutered, proof of the febrile condition of its nukes, Strategic collapse (Finland / Sweden > Nato, a reborn "Polish Lithuanian Commonwealth" and heavily armed Westen arms manufacture reborn.
If done fast it would have been catastophic.
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