From "Malcolm Gladwell Holds His Ideas Loosely. He Thinks You Should, Too. As he releases 'Revenge of The Tipping Point,' the best-selling journalist talks about broken windows theory, Joe Rogan and changing his mind" (NYT).
What if he had a Hitler poster and said "I just think it’s funny" and they were really cheap? Before you answer, remember when Jordan Peterson "bought like 400 Soviet paintings on eBay."
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51 comments:
Were the Peterson posters glorifying Stalin?
We're they propaganda?
Istr that they were individual artists, not state propaganda
In a way, better Hitler on glad wells wall. It would be more honest on his part ans Hitler was pretty small potatoes in horror and numbers compared to glad we'll.
John Henry
Peterson was buying paintings, not posters, and I think he did a better job of explaining his amusement and interest in them than Gladwell's, "I think it's funny.".
I enjoyed Gladwell's first few books (listened to the audiobooks). At some point I lost interest, and I was just neutral on my opinion of him. Then I saw him in the debate where he was with Michelle Goldberg and they were debating Douglas Murray and Matt Taibbi. I'm done with him.
Here's the Newsweek article on Peterson: https://www.newsweek.com/jordan-peterson-soviet-art-propoganda-glenn-beck-1590104
"Jordan Peterson has explained the "comical" reasoning why he decided to cover the walls of his home with Soviet art..."
So Peterson did assert that he thinks it's funny, Mary Beth.
""Some of it was just sheer shock, that I was able to purchase these items," he added. "When I grew up, we never saw anything from the Soviet Union. I mean, that was just impossible. It was so COMICAL to me that I could buy portraits of Marx on eBay, it was so unlikely that was the case. It was a miracle." Peterson also described how his daughter once bought him a Karl Marx doll at a scientific toy store that was half price, describing the incident as "the same kind of COMEDY." "I can buy a picture of Lenin and Marx on the most free market platform that's ever been devised for next to nothing, how could I pass that opportunity up," he said. Peterson added that he was also interested in the artifacts themselves, describing the paintings as "high quality."... "That was really fascinating. Because over time, as we move farther and farther away from the Soviet Union, the art won out over the propaganda.""
That is, it was real PROPAGANDA, but through the passage of time, the artistic quality of the poster won out.
So art, comedy, the irony of capitalism in this context, and as a serious reminder:
"... Peterson said he has been "obsessed with totalitarianism and the human capacity for atrocity" and that having the paintings around "keeps that in my mind, and that all of this happened.""
In the future, Progressives will have Trump posters. They will lament he was stymied in his attempts to build the wall.
No one I've ever spoken to who immigrated from communism to the US has ever thought anything about it was funny. Granted, there have only been a few that I've personally spoken to (including my grandfather), but it's not a source of humor for those who live under it.
I'm not saying Gladwell and Peterson are the same side of a coin, but on this, they appear to be. It is the result of living a cushy life, in a mostly free society, with everything they need at hand. And the purchase of those things from those other nasty times under nasty people is so...kitschy it's 'funny'. Except that it's really not.
They can put whatever they want on their walls. But to me it does speak of who they are. I think the art you choose to put up on your walls is your way of both appealing to yourself as well as announcing something to the world.
I agree with Mary Beth that Gladwell embarrassed himself in the debate with Murray and Taibbi. However, after the debate, Gladwell had a podcast about his abysmal performance in an hour long mea culpa. Also, his views of Joe Rogan podcast are very positive. Gladwell does not allow ideological DNA control his opinions. This unnerving to loyalists of all stripes.
That debate cleared the air, lol.
Doesn’t Mike Tyson have a Mao tattoo?
I don't think I have anything subversive as comedy, except various leftist books, e.g. Carol J Adams "The Sexual Politics of Meat," which apparently went on to be a standard text afterwards, bought for humor from its earnestness. (checks author and title) holy cow there's a 35th anniversary edition. My original edition must be worth millions.
The whole Stalin thing was caused by women voters.
One of my roommates in Berkeley 50 years ago, an econ major who grew up in Beverly Hills, had a huge version of the iconic Che poster on his wall. I’m guessing that, to this day, he knows nothing about Che.
A long time ago I went to a wild party where some guy who looked an awful lot like a young Malcolm Gladwell performed oral sex on a lady to prove to everyone that he wasn't irretrievably homosexual so I just wanted to say that.
Then there’s the whole thing of rich blacks collecting old timey caricature ads and tchotchkes. Too bad Crack isnt here to explain that.
JSM
One of my roommates in Berkeley 50 years ago...had a huge version of the iconic Che poster on his wall.
Mike Tyson has a Che tattoo too!
Peterson is trying to understand the totalitarian mindset from a historical perspective. His comments about comedy highlight the ultimate failure of totalitarian systems when freedom is allowed to compete. Peterson supports free expression strongly.
Gladwell is trying to push totalitarianism in a low IQ flippant way. He supports state control over discourse and supported censorship in several contexts.
These two uses of descriptions of humor are not the same because of the underlying motives. One was proclaiming victory of superior ideas and the other was an intellectual coward who cannot be honest about what he supports.
Yes, that Mao guy was a million laughs.
We know he's transsocial, but a cross-dresser, too too?
Mao was a liberal and progressive guy. An inspiration for our own Great Society, DEI, Planned Parenthood, ethnic Springs, redistributive change, etc.
Palmerism, interment camps, too.
I might put up pictures of airplanes including fighters and bombers as art. As an engineer, I can admire the beauty of something fit for purpose, even if that purpose is deadly. However, I don't think people would find it comedic if I kept a picture of the Enola Gay behind me in a prominent position.
Gladwell supports censorship and is intellectually dishonest on a fundamental level.
That's exactly what he said in the video you linked to. I wasn't saying he didn't think it was funny. I used the word "amusement" instead, but he was clearly entertained by the irony. I was just saying I thought he did a better job of explaining why he thought it was funny than Gladwell did by just saying he thinks it's funny.
Gladwell has always been a credentialed, pretentious fool. He and Goldberg embarrassed themselves handily in that debate with Taibbi and Murray. Not only was the air cleared, the floor got mopped as well.
He should add some anti-Soviet Afghan war rugs to the decor. For balance.
Yeah - Communism is hilarious. All that human suffering ... really funny.
Well, at least many of them lost weight.
You're 99.9% correct, but visual artists Komar and Melamid are an exception. Seriously, check them out if you don't know them. I'm particularly fond of their poster "Onward to the Final Victory of Capitalism", but that was the first work of theirs I ever saw.
For some reason, irony-impaired people tend to be attracted to satire-proof leaders.
Marx didn't kill anyone that I know of, but didn't he have deadly BO?
Yes, somehow Communist art is considered "cool" or "retro" or "ironic." There was a controversy about the Soviet posters on the wall in the lifestyle piece on Obama Press Secretary Jay Carney and his wife Claire Shipman, but the outcry seemed contrived. Same thing for Anita Dunn's "ironic" citation of her "favorite political philosopher" Mao Tse-Tung.
There's a strange nostalgia for the old days of Communist revolution and dictatorship. It's strong on the left, but it's even felt by some anti-Communist Cold Warriors. Things were happening in those days. Kids who want Communist posters or clothing wouldn't dare put up or put on Nazi posters or gear. When there was a vogue for West German Bundeswehr gear in the 80s some people found it ominous.
It's also been said that some American Jews are major collectors of Nazi memorabilia.
I'm reminded of the Woody Allen movie where his character has a massive print of the famous picture of the street execution of a guerrilla during the Tet Offensive on his wall.
“Laughter springs from the barrel of a gun”
—— Mousey Tung
One of my favorite cartoons is of Che wearing a Bart Simpson t-shirt
So you weren’t apprehensive about going down on strange muffin, Eric?
Meh, I’m to the right of Genghis Khan and I’m a big fan of commie iconography, especially from the interwar years. It’s visually striking, historically evocative, and (spoiler alert) I know who lost the struggle that iconography promoted. It doesn’t mean I’m cool with the ideology behind it and, yeah, a lot of it is humorous in it’s absurdity.
“However, I don't think people would find it comedic if I kept a picture of the Enola Gay behind me in a prominent position.”
In the right context, it would be comedic as black humor. Only a brain-dead Prog tool would assume you were in favor of nuking civilians.
Diminished cognitive function and support for Communism seem to go hand in hand.
The fact that many students come to embrace Communism after some college "education" suggests that our universities may actually be making some people dumber.
Ralph L said...
Marx didn't kill anyone that I know of, but didn't he have deadly BO?
Not sure, but Marx was angry over his painful "carbuncles."
"The bourgeoisie will remember my carbuncles until their dying day," Marx told Friedrich Engels in a letter from 1867.
Sam Shuster, professor of dermatology at the University of East Anglia, believes the revolutionary thinker had hidradenitis suppurativa (HS) in which the apocrine sweat glands -- found mainly in the armpits and groin -- become blocked and inflamed.
"In addition to reducing his ability to work, which contributed to his depressing poverty, hidradenitis greatly reduced his self-esteem," said Shuster, who published his findings in the British Journal of Dermatology.
"This explains his self-loathing and alienation, a response reflected by the alienation Marx developed in his writing."
While HS is linked to boil-like lumps, the painful condition also causes more widespread infection, swelling, skin thickening and scarring.
"What if he had a Hitler poster and said "I just think it’s funny" and they were really cheap?"
Then he probably would never be able to run for political office.
Who now owns Epstein’s painting of Bill Clinton in a dress?
Who now owns Epstein’s painting of Bill Clinton in a dress?
In about 1973 or '74 I bought a print of Lenin from the stunningly gorgeous Russian brunette who was clerking at the Russian exhibit that was still open after the Montreal World's Fair/Expo 67. I only wanted to look at her, and flirt as much as time allowed. I tacked it to the back of my bedroom door, or the spare bedroom door when I moved to a two-bedroom house by myself.
It's probably still in a roll around here.
I'm not bothered by JP's or MG's tastes, myself, and don't read much into them.
I listened to Gladwell's podcasts several year ago, and I thought they were interesting. The, he hit on some topics where I knew he was wrong. It got worse, when he did a series on napalm, fire bombing Japan and nuclear warfare. I haven't listened to him, or read his works since.
I listened to Gladwell's podcasts several year ago, and I thought they were interesting. The, he hit on some topics where I knew he was wrong. It got worse, when he did a series on napalm, fire bombing Japan and nuclear warfare. I haven't listened to him, or read his works since.
I said she was Russian, but maybe she was Ukrainian. At any rate, stunning.
I have only leafed through his bombers book, but agree that he seemed to have grabbed the wrong ends of several sticks.
I can’t find this podcast. I listened to the debate and a follow up by Rockne cast. But I can’t find Gladwell’s postmortem. Can you please provide a link.
Howard says:
“I agree with Mary Beth that Gladwell embarrassed himself in the debate with Murray and Taibbi. However, after the debate, Gladwell had a podcast about his abysmal performance in an hour long mea culpa.”
The debate itself occurred in Nov 30, 2022. I’ve looked at Gladwell’s list of podcasts. Season 7 ends Nov 6 2022 and Season 8 begins 2/16/2023. Maybe he took that podcast down.
BTW, on Nov 30, the resolution was: "Be it resolved, don't trust the mainstream media."
Today there would be no debate.
Everything he said in that debate was ideologically motivated.
Either that or he's an idiot, and I don't think he's an idiot.
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