MUSK: They wanna feel like the future is gonna be better than the past and that America is gonna do things that are greater than we've done in the past, reach new heights that make you proud to be an American and excited about the future. They want the American dream back.
Trump responds echoically, then darkly:
TRUMP: You know, they want the American dream back, more important than anything else. It's like, you don't have that today because the people, they've been just sucked. They see incompetent people running our, you know, the Biden thing is very interesting. People just found them to be incompetent. And when I debated him, I was like, is this for real?
Musk tries to track Trump back into optimism and futuristic accomplishments:
MUSK: Yeah, it was just absurd. But I mean, I think there are like, you know, some grand projects that we could do. I mean, I think like, you know, we could build a base on the moon. We could send American astronauts to Mars. We could build high-speed connections that are more advanced than anything else in the world between our cities. So people have fast transport. You know, it's possible to solve traffic with tunnels. We've, you know, we already made great progress in Vegas doing that. And, you know, and just do things that are exciting and inspiring and make the future feel like it's better than the past.
Yes, "we" can do great things together — me, with my companies, and you with your hands on the levers of federal power and money. Trump can't just jump on that ride:
TRUMP: Well, I saw what you did in Vegas and I'll tell you, it was amazing. I got to see, I took a big glimpse at it and it's incredible what you, you know, it's incredible. And you could do that all over. You could do that all over. It's deep. You don't even need much structure, you know, assuming you're in the right area.
MUSK: No, it's straightforward.
TRUMP: It's amazing.
MUSK: So, and like, I think we could do some things that like, like China's got incredible high-speed rail between its cities. But I think it's actually possible with tunnels. If it was deregulation with an ability to actually, where it's like legal to actually do the tunnels, then you could have high-speed tunnels that are actually better than anything else in the world for high-speed transport between cities. And that would be something that, you know, Americans can say, wow, okay, we've got something that's cooler than anyone else in the world. That's the kind of thing that makes you proud to be an American.
TRUMP: And much safer than surface trains where there is a danger there, you know, with people, with crazy people....
Isn't there danger in tunnels? How do you keep the "crazy people" out of the tunnels? And how do you escape from the tunnels if the "crazy people" do crazy things there?
Later, Musk explains that he has been "historically a moderate Democrat," but he's now endorsing Trump because he wants "a future that is prosperous." Kamala Harris, he asserts, will take us "even further left": "I mean, her dad is literally, I mean, she was brought up as an actual, her dad is a Marxist economist."
Trump responds: "I actually always did think of you as somewhat left, I must say that, so it's even more of an honor to have your endorsement."
Musk sums up how Trump ought to appeal to moderates:
MUSK: We want safe and clean cities. We want secure borders. We want sensible government spending. We want to restore both the perception and the reality of respect in the judicial system, just, you know, stop the lawfare. And I think that's like, and how are those even right-wing positions? I think those are just, that's just common sense....
Trump seizes on the issue of violent crime in the cities (and the connection to open borders). Musk goes along with that but then tries to reestablish the happier (and more lucrative) topic of aspirational technology:
MUSK: It's gotten to the point where people just don't even bother reporting crime in a lot of cities because they know nothing is gonna happen.... So, it's just, my values, I'm just saying to people out there, the things I think are important for the future is we've gotta have safe cities. We've gotta have secure borders. We've gotta have sensible spending. And we've gotta have deregulation. And so we can have a prosperous future. And then we wanna have some exciting sort of moonshot projects that people can get fired up about. And that's the future I'm looking for. And I'm pro-environment, but I'm not against, I don't think we should vilify the oil and gas industry because they're keeping civilization going right now....
Trump picks up on Musk's topic:
TRUMP: We want companies to build here.... And we wanna create jobs. And again, it's about the American dream. You don't hear about the American dream anymore, Elon. You don't hear, you're the American dream in the truest sense, but you don't hear about the American dream anymore. And you're gonna hear about it. People, they need that incentive to go out and do it. And they're gonna love their lives. I mean, they're gonna look forward to getting up in the morning and going to a job that they love, not a job that they can't stand, or not any job at all where they have no money, where they literally have no money....
It's Trump and not Musk who hears "American dream" and talks about average people experiencing modest economic success.
Posts
139 comments:
Dig that word "echoically" and don't recall ever encountering it before.
"Morning in America" was Ronald Regan's re-election slogan in 1984.
Along with the "Bear in the Woods" ad.
Surprisingly that message of a recovering strong American middle class prosperity is precisely what MUST BE STAMPED OUT FROM BEING SPOKEN. On earth. That’s what last night at the internets disclosed.
Maybe we could figure out how to keep the trains that are already operating from derailing before we sink trillions of dollars in high speed transport and gouging out tunnels in the landscape.. And maybe we can work on getting those two astronauts who are currently stuck in space home before we start designing our moon base.
It's Trump and not Musk who hears "American dream" and talks about average people experiencing modest economic success.
No doubt Musk was exhibiting the Big Picture bold outlook that drove him to do what he's done so far, but I didn't hear Trump say "modest" when he scaled the American Dream down to simply having a job. It makes me want to stream the whole interview, and I probably will later.
However, I think it was smart of Trump to state it, "We want companies to build here.... And we wanna create jobs." (I do wonder what's hiding behind the ellipses!) Smart because NOBODY is talking about jobs except Joe lately and he just lies. The ugly truth is we have been steadily losing full-time jobs and people have replaced them with multiple part-time jobs, which is not just exhausting but also no way to "get ahead." We need innovators like Musk and Trump to create jobs, and the climate for business formation is very poor right now because uncertainty is a killer for enterprise.
I also think it's SMART because that's the biggest "kitchen table issue" right now: simple economics. "Is my job enough to cover our bills?" The answer is obviously "no" because household debt has skyrocketed while discretionary spending has declined, so more people are using credit to pay routine expenses; and we have the highest percentage of 90+ days late ever reported by American credit card companies.
It's hard to sell empty fake "JOY!" to people who can't make ends meet. Trump needs to keep hammering that point because he has the record to prove job creation thrived under his policies.
Ironically those astronauts will likely be there until Musk can build the transport to bring them home. Very timely comment Sally.
The protection from crazies is your own good character.
One URL: www.zillow.com. No housing shortage. .
We need a dream. Some illusion to make everyone think everything is ok.
Ask yourself why Democrat Party policies always lead to housing shortages, then. Everywhere "Progressives" take over the housing situation regresses to extreme shortages exacerbated by high costs and lack of building activity also exacerbated by high costs. Twin problems Kamala promises to bring from California's Bay Area to you wherever you live.
Open YOUR eyes and start thinking.
Musk's ideas involve people living and traveling in places with no view of the sky. I don't care how fast I'm going in a tunnel, it's depressing.
"Affordable" housing shortage, more precisely, especially in single family homes.
Well that looks awkward after the culling.
They sound like a couple of adolescents trying to talk "heavy thoughts" and succeeding only in revealing they are empty headed.
My comment at 8:06 was a reply to one that evaporated. It appears out of context because it is now.
You don't hear about the American dream anymore, Elon.
You actually DO hear about the American dream. All the time. It's just not happening in America. It's happening in Mexico. John Deere just opened a brand new plant to build massive, high tech-integrated harvesters. That's the American dream. Good jobs with a great American company.
Only their shiny new plant is in Ramos, Mexico. The company is leveraging low-income Mexicans who accept a far-lower standard of living than people in the United States expect.
We don't have to allow that as a country, and we shouldn't allow it. We can incentivize John Deere, without spending a single penny,> to move those jobs back to the United States. My first job as President would be to call the CEO of John Deere on the carpet. In the Oval Office. And ask him why he's killing the American dream! And if we should let him do it.
We hear about the American dream all the time: What we hear is that it's dead and it's not coming back. And that's wrong. It can come back.
Nice highlight, professor. It's as if musk is endorsing Trump because he believes that his companies will receive more Federal funding. Not that there's anything wrong with that. Usually that's sort of thing is all behind closed doors not out in the open and blatant.
I do agree with Elon's point about doing big projects. Growing up in Los Angeles in the 1960s and '70s it was a ginormous Hive of activity on a multiplicity of fronts that made it feel like you were actually living in the future.
Only if you are absolutely ignorant of what these two men have accomplished thus far. Or in denial.
If you skip philosophy you just philosophize badly.
You can't cheat an honest man.
Trump seizes on the issue of violent crime in the cities (and the connection to open borders).
“Trump seizes.” Is that like us Republicans pouncing?
It's Trump and not Musk who hears "American dream" and talks about average people experiencing modest economic success.
The tone of this sentence, and particularly the choice of the adjective “modest,” seems deprecatory. I saw the American dream play out in my own extended family. My grandfather, a legal immigrant from present-day Croatia (a black mark against Althouse’s beloved Democrats that i need to make that point) worked as a pick-and-shovel man in a quarry. The next generation did better — one of his daughters was a nurse, all three sons were skilled laborers, two other daughters married white collar workers, and one married a gas station owner. The next generation did better still — all of them went to college and the girls mostly became educators (one entered the ministry) while we boys mostly entered professions. You, Professor, might characterize those gains as “modest,” but the point Trump is making is that this sort of upward mobility is something that today’s Democrats, with their DEI and CRT, are doing there damndest to eliminate.
Currently the average citizen feels like one of the survivors of the torpedoed USS Indianapolis bobbing in the water, waiting for eternity to strike.
The subsurface is not the landscape. That's the whole point you don't see it it doesn't interfere with the landscape. Your comment reminds me of my favorite line and the only rom-com I have ever watched, as Good as it gets
Ditzy Secretary: how do you write women so well?
Melvin: I think of a man and take away reason and accountability.
Trump is all we have right now. He's getting old and he's old school. Musk recognizes these things. He wants to work with Trump. He wants to help and influence a Trump administration. He understands we have to go to war against the forces of darkness with the Trump we have, not with the Trump we wish we had.
Ah. Hugh Hewitt played several extended excerpts (hughhewitt.com/listenlive which is actually a replay at this time) and Trump explicitly points out that "People are borrowing money just to live day to day."
Exactly so, and if you were doing this just to "get by" you would want the Trump economy back too. Kamala can only make the economy worse by increasing taxes as she's promised to do.
The corrupt left want power and Socialism. Their supporters do too. It's over folks.
Not helping? the fact that Trump is a terrible speaker.
Cook, who has accomplished absolutely nothing in his life, has thoughts.
And Cook thinks he and the government should take all of your stuff and decide who gets to have it.
But please continue with your deep thought there Cook. We are all so interested in what you have to say about this. You are obviously more intelligent than both Trump and Musk combined. At least in your own mind.
Yeah if that philosophy is differential equations. You just need to live life well to understand human philosophy. There's Uncle Bob said it don't take a weatherman to tell which way the wind blow s
Thank you for that new and original comment. I've never heard you say that before, April. Maybe you should consider using that as your blogger handle
Trump is all we have? Who cut off your balls and flush them down the shitter?
You are making the mistake of projecting your own wimpy whiny fearful gutless attitude onto millions of people whom you don't know. This type of fear is exactly what the Deep State algorithm wants you to be impregnated with. Thanks for swallowing all of that bile. I'm sure you think that is being patriotic
Exactly. That's why progressive California is the least progressive state in terms of income disparity and the affordable housing crisis
The American Dream is for Illegal Border Crossers.
Am I the only one who is getting bored of Achilles pretending to comment about other people but really just confessing his own shortcomings?
The American Dream is for Shoplifters.
Thank you Ronald Reagan George Herbert Walker Bush and Billy Jeff Clinton for union busting a thousand points of light a new world order and globalization
@Dixie, it isn’t a question of incentivizing manufacturers to build here in the US. What Trump gets — and Democrats don’t — is that it’s a matter of removing incentives to build those plants outside of the USA. I am thinking about Senator Pat Leahy, back during he Obama years, excoriating Tim Cook for leaving profits from Apple’s European operations in Europe — where they were taxed at a much lower rate — instead of repatriating that money to the US where it could be taxed at the ridiculous corporate rates then in effect. But when the government incentivizes a firm to do something that is a net loss to the American economy, we should not be making appeals to patriotism when the firm responds to those incentives.
Cook: "They sound like a couple of adolescents trying to talk "heavy thoughts" and succeeding only in revealing they are empty headed."
"Throughout history, poverty is the normal condition of man. Advances which permit this norm to be exceeded — here and there, now and then — are the work of an extremely small minority, frequently despised, often condemned, and almost always opposed by all right-thinking people. Whenever this tiny minority is kept from creating, or (as sometimes happens) is driven out of a society, the people then slip back into abject poverty.
This is known as "bad luck."
--Robert Heinlein
Our corrupt media - The Democrat Party alliance press - we need a Trumpian name for them.
I was thinking about the Pelosi Pudding Press.
Trump's the candidate, Howard. We had a primary. There were a lot of candidates. Some of them very good. Trump won. It wasn't close. It's Trump or Harris. Being sophomoric isn't going to change that.
If there was any doubt before, now it's gone.
Trump is obviously past his ‘sell by date’. His time has passed, he's way too old to run a country. The GOP needs someone younger who can finish a sentence and doesn't suffer from severe mental decline.
I thought that interview was long, rambling and 'same old, same old'. It feels like Trump has run out of steam mid-campaign. He's been over dependent on Biden losing the election for the Democrats, and it's all falling apart now Biden has stepped aside.
A third of the way into the interview and it's obvious the leftists are just gaslighting, lying about the content to keep you from listening. They don't want YOU to hear Elon and Trump discussing in detail all the inflated prices Americans are dealing with and the root cause, which Elon gets exactly correct.
They sound like a couple of adolescents trying to talk "heavy thoughts" and succeeding only in revealing they are empty headed.
I have not listened to any of their "conversation" but one would not be faulted for thinking that two multi-billionaires would be worth listening to unless that is, that you are worth a good bit more? Didn't think so.
If they sounded like that to you, why do you think that is?
Despite what the MSM and "feelz" might tell you, neither of these two men are stupid, ridiculous, frivolous, crazy, or scattered. Both have built things anyone would be proud of. Both were "darlings" of the left until they chose to leave the reservation. If your "feelz" about them have changed as a result of that you might want to ponder why.
The cope is real. Rich is only able to say what his masters tell him to say.
He is supporting a candidate that never had a sell by date. Kamala would be so embarrassing in any discussion more than 3 seconds she could never go on X like this.
But here is Rich saying the same stupid things he heard someone else say. You are just a boring stupid shill.
Howard said...
Thank you Ronald Reagan George Herbert Walker Bush and Billy Jeff Clinton for union busting a thousand points of light a new world order and globalization
8/13/24, 8:34 AM
Sure, that's America's problem, not enough unions.... That may be the dumbest comment from one of the silliest trolls in town.
Hope and Improvements are coming, folks!
"darkly". More like shade thrown at Trump. I see nothing but him pointing out in the dismal rain and cloudiness of the past four years that there is a chance of sunshine ahead.
It's like, you don't have that today because the people, they've been just sucked. They see incompetent people running our, you know, the Biden thing is very interesting. People just found them to be incompetent. And when I debated him, I was like, is this for real?
How do you describe the Biden/Harris years with being "dark". Where's the light? In the last four years, Americans who do not live in Ivory Towers have been sucked dry. Hard to see the ground from up in the tower.
Yikes. This tired and already used up failed talking point is beginning to smell like last week's fish. Talk about past a "sell by date".
But what else can Rich do? His betters are hunkered down now and radio silent (other than adopting Trump policies) and are keeping Stolen Valor /Blue Falcon Coward Liar Walz under wraps for fear of further exposure of his cowardice and lies and kamala's complete inability to lie effectively under stress.
The Soviet convention coronation of the New Soviet Democratical Party Dear Leader is going to have to do the trick to get the Soviet Democraticals into September before kamala is allowed out there in a completely controlled environment.
As for Tampon Tim, the groomer stuff along with Stolen Valor means they already have to adjust AGAIN their strategy of where they can send that freak...cuz the generalized midwest probably aint it anymore.
Over 1 billion views and impressions of the interview. No wonder progs are freaking out. Kamala had to drag out the "fine people" lie today to lamely try and change the subject.
Yes, "we" can do great things together — me, with my companies, and you with your hands on the levers of federal power and money. Trump can't just jump on that ride:
Trump jumped on the X ride Musk offered, which freaked out the free speech haters in the MSM and the deep state that tried to hack the event to shut it down. Kamala has been offered the same by Musk but turned it down. Anybody think that dingbat can to two hours talking to Elon Musk? She can't even give ten minutes to MSDNC or CNN. This is a complete joke. If America allows her to be installed we deserve to fall.
The vote-cheat count - end voter ID - let millions of Illegals in - with the media covering for it all. that is our future.
The Future is Corrupt Democrat Party Rule - and the LIE.
The progressive goal is to have everyone packed like sardines into multi-family housing and not travelling at all.
Musk and Trump are together taking on the lying legacy media. Trump domestically for years, and now Musk internationally. Too bad liberal white women can't appreciate the battle being fought. Neither can their beta male boot lickers like Rich and Mark. The MSM media is freaking out this morning.
Without free speech, and the free exchange of ideas (already dead on college campuses and Britain) NONE of the other inspiring content of the Trump / Musk conversation can come to fruition.
About "some grand projects that we could do," I know all you dinosaurs remember the Bicentennial, with its red, white, and blue everywhere, stars everywhere, etc. There have been some other big anniversaries since where nothing was done (e.g. 150 years since end of Civil War), but we have the 250th birthday of this nation in less than two years and again nothing is being planned.
Which is more important to liberal feminists? Free speech or free abortions?
Yes, America could use some great unifying project, but given our colossal national debt, we aren't going to be in any position to undertake any great projects any time soon. The idea that we can is as much a hangover from the glory days of postwar American dominance as the idea that we can dictate to the rest of the world. Getting our house in order here on earth and in our own country may not be as inspiring or unifying, but it's what we have to do.
Rich said...
If there was any doubt before, now it's gone.
Trump is obviously past his ‘sell by date’. His time has passed, he's way too old to run a country. The GOP needs someone younger who can finish a sentence and doesn't suffer from severe mental decline.
I thought that interview was long, rambling and 'same old, same old'. It feels like Trump has run out of steam mid-campaign. He's been over dependent on Biden losing the election for the Democrats, and it's all falling apart now Biden has stepped aside.
-------
Rich is once again doing the cut and paste comments that I've seen elsewhere this morning. And coincidentally, they are from the rabid left accounts that never have had one positive thing to say about Trump. The comments are presented as if it a conclusion they have just now reached and not the same tired old narrative they have been pushing over the past several years.
I might be concerned about such a view if it was from an account that was objective in their criticisms and critiqued both parties candidates in an equal manner. But, given that it is a conclusion reached by only the commenters that have said the same thing multiple times over the past few years, I will discount it as the paid-for view that it obviously is.
Once he might have said "the American people" instead of "people in America." Yes, we're all individuals and don't think or feel or act as one, but the words may be an indication that we aren't going to be brought together by anything.
Trains in tunnels only make sense in urban areas and through mountains or under rivers/lakes. They are otherwise too expensive build and maintain. If you want to praise a Musk company, go with Space X- he really has changed the game for the better in the launch industry.
Rich is a poor example of a Moby Troll. Even Chuck was better at this and he sucked at it, too.
Cook is unhappy because communism never came up as a solution.
All those Republican governors, Howard.
Kampala is all you have and you are welcome to her.
"Musk's ideas involve people living and traveling in places with no view of the sky."
You mean, like, at night?
Aggie said...
"One URL: www.zillow.com. No housing shortage."
What Mike (MJB Wolf) said.
I just checked my area. There are no starter homes for sale at starter home prices. The few starter-type homes for sale are going for much more.
Condo prices have risen by a similar amount.
I checked the "old neighborhood". Houses there are going for a lot more there, too. Even totally unlivable fixer-uppers in the 'Hood that I might have bought for $20-25k 3 decades ago are going for 5-6 times that now.
A strong middle class is exactly what Harris has been advocating for in every one of her rally speeches. She says “strong middle class”, yes she says those very words.
Words vs deeds. Harris has been a prime example of all hat and no cattle.
Progs freaking out? Wishful thinking. Over a two hour conversation of Trump repeating himself? Um…nope, lol.
Minnesota doesn’t have any trouble attracting and getting big companies to settle there.
“Minnesota is ranked 6th in the nation for business, a new study finds. MINNEAPOLIS — A recent study shows that Minnesota is ranked sixth in the nation for business, with high marks coming from areas judging the state's competitiveness, workforce, infrastructure, economy, quality of life and business friendliness.”
Inga, of course, would not listen. She might hear a bit or reality.
I bought my first home in 1969 in South Pasadena for $35,000.The last time I looked at Zillow it was estimated at $ 1.4 million.
Fact Check: True
"She says “strong middle class”, yes she says those very words"
Lenin said: "Peace, Land and Bread"
Castro said he "was not a communist"
[the big guy] Biden said he didn't know anything about Hunter's businesses...
Cookie is really going to unload on Musk today over at the kommie koffee klatch with the beret wearing kommie kiddo amigos. They might even get angry enough and motivated enough to hand out some flyers on the street corner!
Which would likely be the biggest accomplishment for Cookie in the last 40 years.
Btw, Neuralink just recently received approval for a second human transplant of a neuralink device to allow a paralyzed person to control electronics. This is the first step. The goal is to eventually have a brain neuralink implant communicate with another implant just below a spinal injury to allow a paralyzed person to potentially walk again.
This is the sort of thing Cookie has boldly declared "empty headed" thinking.
Rich is actually making me miss Chuck! Particularly after the golf video because we all know that one made Chuck melt down every bit as much as Musk's companies success drives Abacus Boy Rich and Dumb Lefty Mark bonkers.
Our grand project is complaining about things online.
73 million viewers as the livestream ended last night and today there have been over 1 Billion views/engagements about the livestream on social media. In the last 24 hours Trump gained over 1M new followers on X, a platform for which his Truth Social posts are reposted.
I am trying to identify where the "funny" 1984 "Spinal Tap" movie subreference "fits" with this 2024 set of technology and Social Media and global communications/engagement facts.
Mussolini defined fascism as:
Everything within the state
Nothing outside of the state
Nothing against the state
Marx defined socialism (and by extension communism) as
Ownership [control] of the means of production [economy] by the people [govt]
Feel free, anyone, to post any alternate definitions.
Some people, including some regular commenters, get all het up arguing that there is a difference between these two definitions and ideologies.
John Henry
Some people here claim that the
Agree with Yancy that tunnels only make sense in limited applications. Certainly not for intercity travel
Capital cost
Operating cost
Cost of maintaining a vacuum in the tunnel
Or, cost of pushing that huge plug of air out of the way
John Henry
"Progs freaking out?" Yes, thats why you and your New Soviet Democraticals are trying to shut Musk and Trump down every single day in every single way, including embracing direct foreign election interference threats.
So, yeah. Those are signs of a freakout.
The fact that you are comfortable pretending every thing your allies are doing isnt happening doesnt change reality.
UAW files charges against Trump, Musk for trying to intimidate workers
DETROIT, Aug 13 (Reuters) - The United Auto Workers Union said on Tuesday it has filed charges with the National Labor Relations Board against Donald Trump and Tesla (TSLA.O), opens new tab CEO Elon Musk over attempts to threaten and intimidate workers.
The action came after Musk and Trump held a two-hour conversation on social media platform X on Monday night, during which Trump complimented Musk's ability to cut costs by saying he would not tolerate workers going on strike.
"You're the greatest cutter," Trump said during the conversation. "I mean, I look at what you do. You walk in, you just say: 'You want to quit?' They go on strike - I won't mention the name of the company - but they go on strike. And you say: 'That's okay, you're all gone.'"
“ Under federal law, workers cannot be fired for going on strike, and threatening to do so is illegal under the National Labor Relations Act, the UAW said in a statement.”
Big Mike
My grandfather, a legal immigrant from present-day Croatia (a black mark against Althouse’s beloved Democrats that i need to make that point) worked as a pick-and-shovel man in a quarry. The next generation did better [SNIP]
Pretty much the same story as my wife's parents.
Dirt poor, no education. FIL was a seasonal sugar cane worker (sun, fields, machete, soot, dirt) MIL did a little bit of casual work. Moving to Appalachia would have been a step up.
Then GE opened what most people would call a sweatshop making circuit breakers. More or less minimum wage. FIL a porter, MIL putting stampings in plastic shells. Minimum wage or a little more.
Same deal: Kids are teachers, an accountant, engineer, govt executive. Grandkids doing even better.
It is the American dream. Donald Trump is the only one on the horizon who seems to believe in it.
John Henry
"Then GE opened what most people would call a sweatshop making circuit breakers. More or less minimum wage. FIL a porter, MIL putting stampings in plastic shells. Minimum wage or a little more."
"Progressives do not like American factories appearing in third world countries, paying locals wages progressives feel are too low, and disrupting agrarian economies with which progressives were more comfortable. But these changes are all the sum of actions by individuals, so it is illustrative to think about what is going on in these countries at the individual level.
One morning, a rice farmer in southeast Asia might faces a choice. He can continue a life of brutal, back-breaking labor from dawn to dusk for what is essentially subsistence earnings. He can continue to see a large number of his children die young from malnutrition and disease. He can continue a lifestyle so static, so devoid of opportunity for advancement, that it is nearly identical to the life led by his ancestors in the same spot a thousand years ago.
Or, he can go to the local Nike factory, work long hours (but certainly no longer than he worked in the field) for low pay (but certainly more than he was making subsistence farming) and take a shot at changing his life. And you know what, many men (and women) in his position choose the Nike factory. And progressives hate this."
From Progressives are too Conservative to Like Capitalism
https://coyoteblog.com/coyote_blog/2004/12/progressives_di.html
So what are you saying, Inga? That workers should not be allowed to quit their jobs? That is all a strike is, isn't it? Are you saying that you would force an employer to rehire these folks?
Nothing outside the state, right?
Are you a union member, Inga? (former or current)
NOTE: I am speaking of economic, not unfair labor practice strikes.
John Henry
I taught labor relations for 25 years I never heard that before. Not as to economic strikes, anyway. EG; a strike over wages, or to pressure agreement to a contract or the like.
If it is an unfair labor practices strike, generally company in violation of the contract, the UAW might be right, depending on circumstances.
John Henry
Amen. For some who may not know, I am in Puerto Rico. Not a 3rd world country but part of the US. Different only in a few details from being a state.
From 1898 to the 50s, PR was pretty comparable to a 3rd world country economically.
John Henry
There’s an old joke about the sucker at the poker table: If you don’t know who it is, it’s you.
Trump, who endlessly congratulates himself on his MIT professor uncle’s brains, is fast arriving at the “Will you please shut up?” phase of his political descent.
The X Spaces interview delivered Donald Trump without makeup or dress-up, talking unselfconsciously: manic, boastful, untruthful, aggrieved, abusive, obsessive, random, ignorant, tedious, bitchy—and ultimately, formless and endless. Trump seemed to have no budget for his time, no plan of campaign, no message to drive—and nothing else to do, nowhere else to go.
Meandering, solipsistic, and crushingly boring—the interview was an awful forwarning of Trump’s remaining life should he lose again, in November: wandering the corridors of his clubs, going from table to table, buttonholing the dwindling number of guests, monologuing relentlessly until they squirm away.
Here's a compilation of news sources our hostess uses for info! https://x.com/AutismCapital/status/1823359175403204957/photo/1
Listen Soy Boy, I have told you before it would be better if you simply provided the link to the comtent you have stolen without attribution, again.
"I taught labor relations for 25 years I never heard that before."
Inga repeats lots of things the Lawfare commies say that have no basis in law or fact.
The good news is 15 minutes after this is thrown out Inga will deny even mentioning it.
I think there are a lot more out there than just you and I, John Henry
Your side tried to shut Trump up a month ago in Butler, Pennsylvania
Speech Crimes! Speech Crimes! Russia Russia Inga & her Soviet Democrats want more SPEECH CRIMES!
The thing about tunnels, Sally is that the trains can move very fast. As fast as a jet.
John Henry, are you a Labor attorney? No? I didn’t think so.
Interfering with employee rights (Section 7 & 8(a)(1))
Employees have the right to unionize, to join together to advance their interests as employees, and to refrain from such activity. It is unlawful for an employer to interfere with, restrain, or coerce employees in the exercise of their rights. For example, employers may not respond to a union organizing drive by threatening, interrogating, or spying on pro-union employees, or by promising benefits if they forget about the union.
Section 7 of the National Labor Relations Act (the Act) guarantees employees "the right to self-organization, to form, join, or assist labor organizations, to bargain collectively through representatives of their own choosing, and to engage in other concerted activities for the purpose of collective bargaining or other mutual aid or protection," as well as the right "to refrain from any or all such activities."
Section 8(a)(1) of the Act makes it an unfair labor practice for an employer "to interfere with, restrain, or coerce employees in the exercise of the rights guaranteed in Section 7" of the Act.
Says the four flusher, without irony…
Right to strike and picket
“You cannot be fired for participating in a protected strike or picketing, depending on the purposes and means of the strike action.
Kamquat sez what?
Dear childless cat lady, do you know who got rid of labor unions when trying to amass power?
Achilles and Drago are going through a tough time now, let’s try to be gentle.
The shooter was a registered Republican. Whose side are Republicans on?
Believing two billionaires that hate unions are people who want the middle class to prosper is like believing in unicorns.
The average citizen? Maybe the average Trumpist. Don’t speak for the rest of us.
America's problem is that we have been living beyond our means now for too many decades. The moment of reckoning is approaching. A new age of austerity is upon us. We can try to deny it, to live as we live now for as long as we can, until the new reality becomes impossible to ignore.
Or we can make a virtue of necessity — i.e., invent a whole new way of living that is in keeping with our reduced material circumstances, recognizing that the real source of America's influence in the world as always been the power of our example of what is possible in the way human flourishing for the many and not just the few.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00U0C9HKW
Here's a clue, Inga. Anyone can sue or file a complaint against anyone for anything. In this case the UAW is suing them for speaking about it. It was not directed at any specific workers or union.
There's this thing called the 1st Amendment that protects speech. Read up on it sometime. This isn't England.
The shooter was a registered Republican. Whose side are Republicans on?
He was as much a Republican as a drag queen is a woman. Those that knew him even said so.
Inga, Not an attorney of any kind. I do have a MA in Human Resource Management and studied labor relations and labor law as part of that. I taught Labor Relations and Collective Bargaining courses (among other things) for Southern New Hampshire University from 1982 to 2010. Mostly in their graduate school of business.
You, on the other hand, don't even seem to have ever been a union member and your knowledge of unions et al seems to be on a par with your general knowledge. Close to nil.
In any event, here is what the National Labor Relations Board has to say:
https://www.nlrb.gov/about-nlrb/rights-we-protect/the-law/employees/right-to-strike-and-picket I hope you can figure out how to follow the link. Let me know if you need assistance.
You cannot be fired for participating in a protected strike or picketing, depending on the purposes and means of the strike action.
You cannot be fired for participating in a protected strike or picketing, depending on the purposes and means of the strike action.
Under federal law, you cannot be fired for participating in a protected strike or picketing against your employer. There are limitations and qualifications on the exercise of that right. Most strikes are protected, but certain kinds of strikes are not protected, depending on the object or purpose of the strike, on its timing, or on the conduct of the strikers. You can be lawfully fired for participating in an unprotected strike.
When a protected strike ends, you are entitled to return to work. If the reason for the strike was, in whole or in part, to protest one or more unfair labor practices, strikers must be immediately reinstated. If the strike was over economic issues, you are likewise entitled to immediate reinstatement except that if your employer hired permanent replacements, returning strikers are placed on a preferential hiring list. Your right to reinstatement may be lost if you have engaged in violence or other serious misconduct in connection with your strike or picketing activities.
Figuring out what is "protected" and "unprotected" strike can get a bit complex but you can do the research if you like or are able. Most economic strikes are not protected.
John Henry, ah Human Resources, lol. What makes you certain that any Union that strikes will fall into the unprotected class of strikes? Most strikes are of the protected class. You should know that, but apparently you’re ignorant of that too. I belonged to a nursing union for many years. My son who was a Millwright Journeyman belonged to the Carpenter's Union. After my son died in 2019 (because he was unmarried with no children) I inherited a quite a generous amount of money that were because of his union membership. The Union was easy to work with and very helpful in navigating the paperwork. You can pretend to be an expert on unions, it’s evident you are simply a Human Resources dope.
"Isn't there danger in tunnels? How do you keep the "crazy people" out of the tunnels? And how do you escape from the tunnels if the "crazy people" do crazy things there?"
I think they're talking about people sabotaging the tracks. (Like those eco-terrorists) It would be substantially harder for someone to sabotage the tracks underground than above ground. (Have you ever heard of someone sabotaging the tracks on a New York subway line? But we have heard lots of stories of people sabotaging above ground train tracks.) And if a high speed train you're on is derailed, you can't really do anything to "escape" it.
If you're talking about "crazy people" they'll get you wherever you are when it comes to mass transit. You have dangerous crazy people in the New York subway stations and you have dangerous crazy people at the above ground Metrolink stations attacking people.
The only exception are the airports because of the giant (and I mean giant) law enforcement presence there.
There were two 1970s, sci fi ,made for TV movies (failed pilots by Gene Roddenberry) that featured an underground transit system. (Genesis II and Planet Earth) The vehicle was called the Subshuttle and its underground tunnels covered the entire planet. They never explained how it worked, but there weren't any tracks. It just travelled at very high speed through cylindrical tunnels. Both films were post-apocalyptic and the Subshuttles were used by an organization named, PAX, to sent teams around the world on missions to benefit mankind.
A registered Republican who donated money to the Democrats. There might be a clue in there. Not for a Democrat, though. And then, there's this...
Democrats' Bold Strategy Could Upend GOP Primaries
"Over the first few months of 2024, Democrats will vote in a number of state primaries across the country to have their say on who might be a presidential candidate in the 2024 election.
But while the majority will vote in their own party's primaries, some plan to register as Republicans and vote in GOP primaries instead.
The practice, sometimes known as crossvoting, allows voters to opt for a rival they want a Democrat candidate to face in an election, or back a more palatable Republican in seats Democrats have little chance of winning."
https://www.newsweek.com/democrats-crossover-voting-gop-primary-republicans-trump-1850387
But the Democrats have been actively grinding down the middle class with their socialist policies. But that's the thing about politicians, they say one thing and then do another. If you don't believe that about politicians, then you're the one believing in unicorns.
Also, unions don't support the middle class. They support the Democrats. I was in a union once and all the members were totally out for themselves, not the other union members. They constantly threw new members under the bus to guarantee that the older members got a bigger piece of the pie.
Howard describes Democrats pretty well. He just gets the name wrong. The dullard weighs in with a more stupid comment.
The dullard posts more links that don't apply. Since the communist, Walter Reuther, is no longer around to drive auto sales to Japan, workers in new auto plants have been voting with their feet.
As usual the senile geezer chimes in without even knowing what is being discussed.
The dullard is so stupid she repeats the cover story. It's clear that he was a hard lefty from his Gab account.
Ah! The smell of desperation coming from Inga.
It smells like ... victory!
Registering Republican is different from being a Republican. Pennsylvania has a closed primary system and it is believed that he registered as he did because it was the only way to vote against Trump in the primary. As Dr. Michael K correctly notes, he was a lefty extremist.
Like you, Inga. Just. Like. You.
“A strong middle class is exactly what Harris has been advocating for in every one of her rally speeches. She says “strong middle class”, yes she says those very words.”
This despite the Biden-Harris administration’s War on the Middle Class. Yes, Harris can read what’s on a teleprompter.
I’m glad you’ve identified it. Her panic has an acrid smell to it.
A strong middle class is exactly what Harris has been advocating for in every one of her rally speeches. She says “strong middle class”, yes she says those very words.
And yet nothing she's done in the last three and a half years backs that up.
Seriously. You DO realize she's not some outsider candidate, right? You DO know she's been in the White House since 2021, right?
I have a bit of reading material for the dullard. It's about unions if she can read.
For me, the "tell" that a politician was a Big Government doofus always was that he/she advocated "high speed rail". The Big Government doofus was always a Democrat -- Obama made it a highlight of one of his State of the Union/ infomercials/ addresses. Gov. Newsome of the once-great State of California has actually tried to build high-speed passenger rail on one of the most developed auto routes in the world -- ain't been goin' all that well, Gav, has it?
So it's shocking to me to find a generally reasonable politician like Trump signing on to Musk's idea.
As it happens, my law practice had a substantial railroad component over many years, while the railroad industry was changing, and so was federal law governing railroads. I mostly dealt with freight rail, on both the railroad and customer side, but I also represented Amtrak on several matters.
Starting in the early 19th Century, steam power for transportation (mostly rail but also ships) was the single biggest economic and social development in the world - IN THE WORLD!! -- until the advent of air travel/transportation. Until the early 20th century, rail dominated every aspect of human life in the developed part of the world and even in the developing world.
But stop for a minute and think what Monk and Trump were talking about. Let's not only build rail networks, let's put them underground, so they'll be vastly more expensive. Why? What's the economic benefit? If we put the railroads in tunnels, we can evacuate the air from the tunnels so that train cars can travel even faster in vacuum. Why? The vast majority of freight movements are much more price sensitive than time sensitive. Even building a rail line on the surface is VERY expensive, but burying the line and then evacuating the atmosphere -- what's the economic justification for that?
For passenger transportation? You can fly today from here to there at 600+/_mph. And your biggest hassle is getting in and out of the airport; and then getting a rental car or a cab to the city. Does paying billions to bury a railroad solve that problem?
So to counter- kamala should go one on one with a two hour live conversation to show people she has it- and Trump doesn't. In fact, I understand Elon has invited her to do so with him. He'd probably also host someone else.
She can't do it. And sound intelligent. So she won't.
I saw a list yesterday of just how many subjects were covered. A lot. And Trump was already cognizant of everything Musk brought up, Maybe not all the details- but the subject matter.
I wrote a paper in HS- in the early 1970's- on how to disable the NYC subway system. My teacher- who was teaching military history- said it should be classified.
Manhattan is extremely vulnerable to any group actually wanting to take it down. But- you have to be actually familiar with the city and things like infrastructure to do it.
Most cities don't have the same vulnerabilities.
@Inga, would you care to tell us who ranked Minnesota so high? Because according to the National Federation of Independent Business Minnesota has the highest corporate tax rate in the nation, adding 9.8% on top of federal corporate taxes. And that does not strike me as particularly “business friendly”
I'd be curious to know if there has ever been a US politician who was opposed to a "strong middle class". He musta had a short career.
I had the impression that was more Musk than Trump, and Trump was just being polite in his responses to someone who is supporting him and doing him a big favor. I've never heard Trump independently pushing for high speed rail.
Joe Biden
I'll go as far to sat that since reagan democrats have been actively working to destroy the middle class. They want to punish the middle class for voting for reagan and bush and trump.
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