Althouse: "The US could have avoided almost 250,000 Covid-19 deaths if every state had adopted stricter mask and vaccine requirements seen in the Northeast..."

July 28, 2024

"The US could have avoided almost 250,000 Covid-19 deaths if every state had adopted stricter mask and vaccine requirements seen in the Northeast..."

"... during the height of the pandemic, according to a new study.... 'These study findings do not support the views of those opposing COVID-19 restrictions who erroneously believe the restrictions did not work,' [writes University of Virginia public policy and economics professor Christopher J Ruhm]. 'To the contrary, the package of policies implemented by some states probably saved many lives. If all states had imposed restrictions similar to those used in the 10 most restrictive states, excess deaths would have been an estimated 10% to 21% lower than the 1.18 million that actually occurred during the 2-year analysis period.'..."

From "Stricter Covid mask rules could’ve saved hundreds of thousands of lives, new study finds/Restrictions in Northeastern states likely ‘saved many lives’ say researchers" (Independent).

196 comments:

Lance said...: Weasel words for the win: "Could", "some", "probably", "estimated", "likely".; 7/28/24, 4:11 PM
Kate said...: Northeastern states. The place in 2021 where millions of people did not cross the border and mingle unrestricted with the residents.; 7/28/24, 4:12 PM
Jim at said...: Bullshit.

Next.; 7/28/24, 4:15 PM
Real American said...: Masks don't work. "More" doesn't make them work.; 7/28/24, 4:17 PM
Quaestor said...: Science has been so thoroughly corrupted that "researchers say" should be greeted with a grain of salt the size of a mountain-sized grain of salt.; 7/28/24, 4:18 PM
Aggie said...: I hate to say it, because it's to the detriment of my own understanding and development, but science has become so compromised over the past decade or so, that it's no longer possible to believe results that are released as findings. The industry of science has degraded itself from within, mostly over money - there's the repeatability crisis, there's the issues of 'results' following the dictat of funding, and there's the censorship and cancelling of reputable scientists that point these things out and sound an alarm.

Sorry, science: You're out of credibility and I'm fresh out of respect. We've been so battered by admonishment after admonishment, so beaten down by commands to obey and to 'trust the science' when we're having stuff that explicitly is not science being pushed down our throat, to obvious detriment. You want me to believe this stuff about COVID, when your own industry is refusing to release data about the vaccine trials (and the unfortunate injuries) until 50 or 75 years has passed. Nope, not good enough. You want to isolate and mask up? Be my guest. You want me to believe your study? Please have Dr Batachayra let us know what he thinks of it, and we'll take it from there, after you open your data up for inspection as well as your funding.; 7/28/24, 4:19 PM
robother said...: And at what cost to the portion of the population that was at no real risk of dying? Oh, right, "if it only saves one life" is now the only metric by which we judge effectiveness of all public policy. The fact that the lower cognitive half of an entire age cohort in Blue States has been lost academically forever, is nothing we care about. If only that damage could've been extended to all Red States as well, maybe another 250,000 80 year olds might have been saved.; 7/28/24, 4:21 PM
Art in LA said...: Sadly, I don't trust many "experts" and "researchers" anymore. The corporate media and "corporate" academia do not want us to believe our personal observations of the world, my own "lived experience" as some would say, LOL.; 7/28/24, 4:22 PM
Quaestor said...: Require a virologist to work with a mask he can actually breathe through... then duck.; 7/28/24, 4:23 PM
Paul said...: Fauci now says mask didn't help... they were not really 'effective'... duh..; 7/28/24, 4:23 PM
Inga said...: Told you so.; 7/28/24, 4:24 PM
Sheridan said...: Lies, damn lies and statistics. Not sure which is worse. Researchers or Journalists. Both groups on the whole are liars paid by somebody to share a specially shaded "truth". As a Morlock, I'd advise the Eloi to be mindful that the Truth is special and precious and worthy of protection.; 7/28/24, 4:27 PM
Kevin said...: I question the timing.; 7/28/24, 4:28 PM
Lawnerd said...: Bullshit. Everyone I know that was vaccinated, including me, got covid. There is no evidence that masks reduce spread.; 7/28/24, 4:29 PM
Michael K said...: If we had only listened to the dullard, we could have done as well as Sweden, oh wait!; 7/28/24, 4:32 PM
Inga said...: “Fauci now says mask didn't help... they were not really 'effective'... duh..”

No, Fauci didn’t say face masks were a ‘failure’.; 7/28/24, 4:33 PM
Josephbleau said...: This study is hopeless, there is no way to separate the effect of masks and vax rates from other confounded factors in the northeast.

Are there other differences between MA and MS? Like climate, poverty rate, age of population, obesity, diabetes, average family size? Have these confounders been considered or did they just jump to their preferred conclusion.

Did all the ten most restrictive states have the lowest deaths or were there exceptions covered up by averaging? And if so, were the exceptions explained?

I can’t read the paper because my univ library online access is down for maint today.; 7/28/24, 4:39 PM
Mutaman said...: "The excess death rate in Massachusetts, the state with the tightest Covid restrictions during the study period, was less than one-fifth that of Mississippi, the state with the loosest rules."

A fact that the Know Nothings never want to address.; 7/28/24, 4:39 PM
The Godfather said...: The article doesn't explain what they mean by "excess deaths", how they determine how many deaths are in the Northeast were "excess", and how they attribute such deaths to masking practices. Without that information the article is meaningless.; 7/28/24, 4:40 PM
doctrev said...: I encourage people who still believe in this government to go out and get another jab.; 7/28/24, 4:41 PM
Josephbleau said...: “If all states had imposed restrictions similar to those used in the 10 most restrictive states, excess deaths would have been an estimated 10% to 21% lower than the 1.18 million that actually occurred during the 2-year analysis period,” according to the study.“

There is no way a researcher could justify the statement “…would have…”; 7/28/24, 4:43 PM
Mason G said...: "Oh, right, "if it only saves one life" is now the only metric by which we judge effectiveness of all public policy."

No, that's not the metric. If it was, millions of people wouldn't have been allowed into the country over the past four years. One of these "immigrants" killed Laken Riley. If the metric was "if it only saves one life", the person who killed her wouldn't have been here and she'd be alive today.

The actual metric is "if it only saves one life and it's something we want to do".; 7/28/24, 4:45 PM
Breezy said...: How do they account for deaths from the vaccine? And how do they even know the cause of any death accurately - people were paid more money if it was a “COVID” death. I question the data and therefore the results.; 7/28/24, 4:45 PM
Wayne Wilson said...: If ninety proof nancy and her gang of communists would not have fought President Trump trying to close flights incoming from Asia , we might have slowed the disease. But that was racist.; 7/28/24, 4:47 PM
narciso said...: we're back to this carp again, it's evergreen,; 7/28/24, 4:48 PM
Mr Wibble said...: COVID was a threat to the old, the sick, the morbidly obese. Sure, we should have destroyed the economy even more just to maybe save a bunch of people who had no value to begin with.; 7/28/24, 4:50 PM
sharecropper said...: I am not a researcher, but a mask skeptic. I had the 2 stage Pfizer vaccine, no boosters, did not wear a mask. Had covid 2x, hiked 5 miles a day during both times, and avoided people during my times with covid. My wife had no vaccines, never wore a mask, & had covid 1x. She also hiked 5 miles a day & avoided contact during the covid experience. We have friends who still wear masks, who have never met a booster or vaccine they wouldn't take, and who have had covid 4 and 5 times. I know, I know...anecdotal, not science. But I trust my anecdote more than I trust someone else's science.; 7/28/24, 4:50 PM
narciso said...: if fauci hadn't funded the virus in the first place, there wouldn't have been a million deaths, rounding error, masks don't work, the social distancing was a tuberculosis study in 1919, reviewing events 50 years earlier,; 7/28/24, 4:53 PM
Megthered said...: Husband and I never hot the shot and never got sick. Pur daughters never hot the shot and never got sick. We also never had to wear a mask because South Dakota left it up to the individual. My brother and his wife gotten shot a d boosted and got covid 3 times.It just means we have zero trust in the government.; 7/28/24, 4:54 PM
Kevin said...: "The excess death rate in Massachusetts, the state with the tightest Covid restrictions during the study period, was less than one-fifth that of Mississippi, the state with the loosest rules."

So we're not adjusting for old age and obesity?; 7/28/24, 4:54 PM
EdwdLny said...: Bovine scatology. You clowns should be grateful that citizens didn't take retribution on you, fatal retribution. You clowns and your polices slaughtered hundreds of thousands of Americans. Fuck you.; 7/28/24, 4:56 PM
MrLiberty said...: And a MILLION or more might still be alive had the induced coma, intubation, and ventilator protocols of the CDC murderers been handily rejected after the first MURDER of a patient, and if Ivermectin, Hydroxychloroquine/zinc therapies been ALLOWED by the mass murdering CDC/FDA/bigPharma conspirators. But in order for the EUA to be given, there had to be NO alternative, effective therapies, so despite these drugs saving thousands of lives, the collusive group of mass murderers banned them, disparaged them, RIGGED studies to make them look ineffective, etc. so that EVERYONE (from Fauxi down), would get their HUGE payday. Who cares that a million or more folks died.; 7/28/24, 4:57 PM
R C Belaire said...: Maybe AA needs to apply her "bullshit" tag to this. The "civility" portion is optional I guess.; 7/28/24, 4:58 PM
walter said...: Fauci was against masks before he was for them.

I was setting up for a soccer game last week and a woman sitting in an otherwise empty stadium put a mask on every time another woman, an aisle across from her, sat down. These were 30 something women, presumably moms.
There's a surprising amount of paranoid Karens out there.

Inga should wear her famous DIY t-shirt cloth mask when she checks on her migrants.; 7/28/24, 4:58 PM
Jeff Weimer said...: It was an indoor disease, and you could see it in realtime when different regions spiked. Summertime in the South, winter in the North and everything. I remember northerners tut-tutting Florida in the summer and their "lack of masking" and 6 months later they would get clobbered even though they locked themselves away from everyone else as much as possible. Literally the best thing was for people to get outside in the sunshine, and we largely blocked that and *that* made things worse.; 7/28/24, 5:02 PM
Original Mike said...: Many millions would be alive if Fauci's institute had not funded gain of function research at the Wuhan lab.; 7/28/24, 5:03 PM
Charlie Currie said...: Weasel words for the win: "Could", "some", "probably", "estimated", "likely".

Couldn't
None
Probably not
Guessed
Likely not; 7/28/24, 5:03 PM
The Genius Savant said...: Does the "Northeast" include NY? Literally everyone with an objective, functioning brain know that masks did absolutely nothing to prevent COVID. You should give this your "BS" tag; 7/28/24, 5:03 PM
Jamie said...: Mr. Wibble, don't be a dick.

That said - the factual portion of your comment is true: COVID killed the old, the immunocompromised, the obese. And it killed then no matter whether everyone was wearing masks or not.

The weasel-wording of the piece demands investigation: what factors were controlled for? Or was this a study like the one that gifted us Headstart, a program that worked great in pilot form (as any mask study in which people trained and disciplined in N95 mask-wearing might work great - the pilot programs used highly trained and motivated, conscientious young college students and grads as preschool teachers in small classrooms with heavy parental buy-in) but utterly failed in the real world (as anyone who has seen the common run of people wearing blue-paper or pretty fabric masks below their noses is doomed to fail - just as the real-world Headstart programs used indifferently qualified, low-paid and therefore less motivated teachers and didn't require parental involvement)?; 7/28/24, 5:04 PM
Mutaman said...: Mr Wibble said...

"COVID was a threat to the old, the sick, the morbidly obese. Sure, we should have destroyed the economy even more just to maybe save a bunch of people who had no value to begin with."

"the old, the sick, the morbidly obese."

I agree that this is an adequate description of Trump but I think your attacks on him are getting out of hand.; 7/28/24, 5:05 PM
Josephbleau said...: “Limitations
This study had limitations. First, even with its methodological innovations, the cross-sectional design makes it difficult to identify causation. Second, with only 51 observations (1 for each state plus the District of Columbia), the data were not robust enough to include controls for other state demographic or policy characteristics, although these effects were partially accounted for, to the extent that they influenced baseline mortality. Third, although the restrictions examined were more comprehensive than in prior analyses, they were incomplete in a variety of ways. For example, they did not account for restrictions imposed at the substate level (eg, by cities and school districts). The resulting measurement error may have biased the policy effects toward zero. Conversely, they may have captured the effects of related policies that were not controlled for (eg, state or school vaccine requirements may have been correlated with other types of vaccine mandates in the state). Similarly, data were not available on the exact timing of some policies, requiring the use of dummy variables rather than more precise measures. This also precluded examination of the importance of the specific timing of policy implementation. Fourth, a limited set of behaviors was analyzed. Some of these were self-reported, potentially with error, and they may also have been correlated with omitted factors affecting policy responses in the state. Fifth, the calculation of excess deaths was inexact, although qualitatively similar results were obtained when focusing on fatalities with COVID-19 as the underlying cause. Lastly, state-level policies that were not directly related to the pandemic were not considered, except to the extent these affected baseline death rates.“

Thus: although we could not measure a lot of things, and had insufficient sample size, and made so many assumptions we can’t begin calculating a confidence interval or statistical significance of our results, we state that high masks and vax requirements WOULD have saved 200,000 lives!!

Amazing.; 7/28/24, 5:06 PM
Jim at said...: Told you so.

The sheep bleats.; 7/28/24, 5:08 PM
Yancey Ward said...: Total excess deaths due to Covid in the individual states are only correlated with the numbers of black people in a state, obesity rates, and median age of the population and correlated with nothing else- not masking rates, not vaccine uptake, not shutdowns. Median age (really, the percentage of the population above the age of 65) is the biggest factor followed by obesity- everything else is statistical noise. And excess deaths are really only correlated with the numbers of fat and old people.

Mutaman above makes a big deal about Massachusetts vs Mississippi- but given the demographics and obesity factors Massachusetts should done even better on deaths/million population. As it turns out, Massachusetts ended up in the middle of the pack with its "strongest restrictions" and high vaccine uptake.; 7/28/24, 5:08 PM
narciso said...: yes charlie baker who let infected people into the nursing homes, pull my other finger,; 7/28/24, 5:09 PM
Christopher B said...: Healthy Skeptic Kevin Roche reviews the study.; 7/28/24, 5:10 PM
Amadeus 48 said...: 5 shots, last booster in Oct 2022, minimum mask wearing (came off as soon as permitted by rules in place) 73-75 years old, travelled and went to theater and concerts, no covid.

Initially in favor of shots, never in favor of masks because obviously they don't work, eager observer of comparative results in Sweden vs others.

My objections are based around suppression of information, lack of support for therapies other than "vaccines", and tyranny through fear. I see young people outdoors with masks and ask myself what is wrong with them, but I think that anyone that wants to wear a mask should do so.; 7/28/24, 5:11 PM
narciso said...: hes not an epidemiologist, more of a diviner, see this hot take,

https://www.npr.org/transcripts/1197956718; 7/28/24, 5:13 PM
Inga said...: I’ve had 6 shots. Wore a mask in a crowded room, not outside. Never had Covid.; 7/28/24, 5:16 PM
narciso said...: as kevin roche points out, the data sets are far from rigorous, I guess they knew someting from ferguson or christopher murray was not going to pass muster,; 7/28/24, 5:21 PM
Jersey Fled said...: "The excess death rate in Massachusetts, the state with the tightest Covid restrictions during the study period, was less than one-fifth that of Mississippi, the state with the loosest rules."

Can’t get to the actual data, but it looks like they compared rates with rates. This is something you need to be careful about. Let’s say the excess deaths went up by 1% in state A and 1.2% in state B. You could say that’s a 20% difference. And in one sense that’s correct. But it’s also a way to make a very small number into a very big number. In this case a difference of 0.2% becomes a 20% difference.

Being a nerd, I actually read every study on the effectiveness of masking on Covid. I stopped after 14 studies. There have probably been more by now. I bet I actually read more of these studies than Fauci did. In fact I know that I did based on Fauci’s testimony before Congress. To say that every one of those studies was seriously flawed would be an understatement.

In the famous Bangladesh study that the CDC called the gold standard, the abstract didn’t agree with the body of the study which didn’t agree with the base data.

I didn’t do vaccines or school closings because they were just incomprehensible.

This is just to say that I am skeptical. The study Ann posted is one of the least transparent ones I’ve seen. I can’t tell if the study was peer reviewed and I can’t get to the data.

But I do see some red flags.

Approach with caution.; 7/28/24, 5:21 PM
tcrosse said...: I am skeptical of "science" that has become politicized.; 7/28/24, 5:26 PM
Captain BillieBob said...: Never got the shot, didn't mask and never got the rona; 7/28/24, 5:28 PM
chuck said...: Median age (really, the percentage of the population above the age of 65) is the biggest factor followed by obesity-

The rule of thumb was that the risk of death doubled for every seven years of age.; 7/28/24, 5:28 PM
narciso said...: I can't find the actual paper on his university site, thats a red flag right there,; 7/28/24, 5:29 PM
Yancey Ward said...: Let's dispense with the 1/5th rate of Massachusetts vs Mississippi:

As JerseyFled points out comparing rates is a cop out in this sort of analysis.

Here are the numbers of COVID deaths/million population in the two states:

Massachusetts 3712
Mississippi 4527

In the US as whole, in the 50 states, the range in that statistic is 4726 (Arizona) to 1531 (Hawaii).; 7/28/24, 5:31 PM
Yancey Ward said...: Median age can be misleading since some states are preferred retirement states for taxes and weather- Florida being the prime example. Base on Florida's median age you wouldn't easily predict it had so many people above the age 65- the state (along with Arizona) is top heavy with retired people.; 7/28/24, 5:33 PM
Mason G said...: "I am skeptical of "science" that has become politicized."

Politicized science *is* politics. Any science left over in it is purely incidental.; 7/28/24, 5:35 PM
walter said...: It's worth noting the inflated and twisted metrics behind covid dx and counting.

Some Inga from back in the day:

Inga said...
There were quite a few bearded beer bellied older protestors there. Prime candidates for the ICU and a brand spanking newly bleached ventilator in about two weeks.
4/24/20, 5:29 PM; 7/28/24, 5:36 PM
Dude1394 said...: Sweden says these people are lying.; 7/28/24, 5:39 PM
Yancey Ward said...: When you look at the rank order of the states in Covid deaths/million population, two things stick out- the states with 4000+ deaths/million are also in at the top in numbers of people age 65 and/or very obese. The states under 2500 are 90% white with low obesity.

If you really believe masking and restrictions work, then you have to explain Michigan, New York, and New Jersey being among the states with over 4000+ Covid deaths/million population. If your model can't account for that, then it is worthless.; 7/28/24, 5:41 PM
rhhardin said...: The vaccine did its work correctly on the original COVID. It did nothing for variants.

Vaccines were begun in Nov/Dec 2000 and by May 2021 the weekly new case count in Ohio had dropped from tens of thousands to essentially zero, exactly as hoped. The vaccine works by reducing the average number of new cases that a given case produces, and if that number drops to less than 1.0, the virus dies out. It doesn't prevent getting COVID or transmitting it, except for that vital average. By May 2001 the delta variant was just starting to appear, so it wasn't that the original variant was displaced by another variant. It fit exactly the appearance of the vaccine program that was working.

Masks probably were a waste. The virus seems to have acted more like an odor than sneeze droplets. You can still smell farts mask or not.; 7/28/24, 5:43 PM
The rule of Lemnity said...: I don't believe them anymore.; 7/28/24, 5:46 PM
MadTownGuy said...: Kate said...

"Northeastern states. The place in 2021 where millions of people did not cross the border and mingle unrestricted with the residents."

Like Connecticut, where troopers were poised at ports of entry to cite drivers from every other state except NY and NJ (!) and impose a hefty fine.

Never mind that NY moved recovering C-19 patients into nursing homes, thereby ensuring more excess deaths from people most at risk from the disease.

Is this battlefield prep for avian flu restrictions?; 7/28/24, 5:46 PM
Dave Begley said...: I knew the Althouse community would dismantle this so-called research. But isn’t the same study that said closing schools and making kids wear masks was a big mistake?

I think Ann posts stuff like this because she has a side bet with Meade as to how quickly the “science” can be destroyed by the Althouse community. First comment nailed it. Congrats!; 7/28/24, 5:48 PM
~ Gordon Pasha said...: VINAY PRASAD, MD, USCF physician says "hold on a minute,"

"In conclusion, if someone tells you this randomized control trial proves that wearing surgical masks work, the only thing they've successfully proven is that their brain doesn't work. Knowing how to read articles should be the fundamental education of medical school, instead it is memorizing trivialities. We need more randomized control trials of masking so we can decide whether or not the few zealots who continue to mask today are doing something sensible, or crazy. Until we get those studies we don't know for sure, though some of us have a guess."

https://substack.com/home/post/p-146997346; 7/28/24, 5:49 PM
Hassayamper said...: Never, ever, ever take it for granted that scientists are made from finer clay than the rest of us.

In medicine as in climate science, billions of dollars are made available for those who provide "scientific" support for the policy preferences of the government functionaries doling out the moolah, and studies going against the establishment's wishes earn their authors a kick in the teeth and denial of tenure.

Modern science is becoming Lysenkoism.; 7/28/24, 5:52 PM
walter said...: " The vaccine works by reducing the average number of new cases that a given case produces, and if that number drops to less than 1.0, the virus dies out. It doesn't prevent getting COVID or transmitting it, except for that vital average."

New level of weasel words.; 7/28/24, 5:53 PM
paminwi said...: Inga your situation sounds just like my friend who hiked and/or biked daily in addition to her Covid shots.
Turbo cancer: brain, lungs, bone-dead in 6 months.; 7/28/24, 6:02 PM
Xmas said...: I call shenanigans on this.

Most of the deaths in MA were people 70+ in age at the peak of COVID. I don't think our lockdown restrictions were that strict, compared to what was happening in other states.; 7/28/24, 6:03 PM
Clyde said...: I call bullshit on this. Most people were walking around with plain cloth masks, which were just kabuki that provided no protection at all.; 7/28/24, 6:03 PM
walter said...: There could be other explanations for a virus waning between November and May, but just can't put my finger on it.; 7/28/24, 6:06 PM
loudogblog said...: University of Virginia public policy and economics professor Christopher J Ruhm.
Not a medical doctor.

There is no way to know exactly how the pandemic would have turned out if things had been different. They're just guessing. Granted, lives probably would have been saved if more people had gotten vaccinated when they had the chance, but the science on masking has actually reversed itself and now says that masks are ineffective at stopping the spread of viruses like Covid. (The virus particle is just too small for a simple cloth mask to filter it out.); 7/28/24, 6:09 PM
Achilles said...: How many people could have been saved from Pneumonia and the Flu in 2020?

The answer? Zero!

Because nobody dies of Pneumonia or the Flu in 2020. They all died from COVID. So after we realize where this study starts from you know where it is going.

It starts at bald faced lies and ends in bald faced lies.; 7/28/24, 6:13 PM
Narayanan said...: stricter mask etc...
-maybe would have resulted in fewer people out and about and staying shut-in and so not dying of covid but boredom?; 7/28/24, 6:14 PM
rehajm said...: We could have avoided far more covid deaths if we did not provide financial incentives to classify deaths of people with covid as deaths from covid. People respond to incentives….; 7/28/24, 6:15 PM
rehajm said...: …the masks were useless. It’s bullshit. Strict nobody moves for three seeks lockdowns would have cut off the virus but would have been barbaric. As it was the swiss cheeze not really a lockdown lockdowns were stupid and useless…

…and we need a national conversation about the trust of medical institutions what was destroyed only because Trump was a threat to democracy…; 7/28/24, 6:19 PM
Achilles said...: Mr Wibble said...

COVID was a threat to the old, the sick, the morbidly obese. Sure, we should have destroyed the economy even more just to maybe save a bunch of people who had no value to begin with.

And the obvious answer to this is to lock everyone in their houses with no sun or fresh air or exercise.; 7/28/24, 6:31 PM
rehajm said...: …remember early on we were lectured there was no reason for the general public to wear the mask. Remember the guy that said it? He must have been fired, right?; 7/28/24, 6:32 PM
Achilles said...: Inga said...

Told you so.

I appreciate that COVID inoculated us against the real problem.

Stupid Karens who want to tell everyone else what to do.

It took letting these terrible people carry out their disgusting fascist fever dreams but you all finally figured it out.

And now everyone realizes that the people like Inga are not just stupid, but they hate humanity and people in general.; 7/28/24, 6:35 PM
Joe Bar said...: Somebody should tell the Swedes. LOL.

This is the worst article, ever.; 7/28/24, 6:35 PM
BUMBLE BEE said...: Bad Flu Season.

Scalar Explanation. Paper "masks" prevent .25 micron Covid like cyclone fence prevents mosquitos.
After being worn, are true biohazards, littering the landscape.

Inga is off her meds (again). A nurse?; 7/28/24, 6:37 PM
Achilles said...: My favorite part of COVID was when Inga and Mutaman went from "YOU MUST STAY HOME" to "ITS OK FOR BLM TO BURN LOOT MURDER" in the span of 20 minutes because they are dumb trained seals that clap to whatever their masters tell them to.

Nobody takes any of you people seriously about anything anymore.; 7/28/24, 6:39 PM
Old and slow said...: What? You were boasting about making the silly masks.; 7/28/24, 6:40 PM
Yancey Ward said...: "Strict nobody moves for three seeks lockdowns would have cut off the virus but would have been barbaric."

Would likely have put a cap on cases for only a month or two after the lifting of such a tight lockdown. COVID has reservoirs- carriers who are always spreading it asymptomatically. As soon as a lockdown ends, regardless of the length, the virus starts spreading again.; 7/28/24, 6:41 PM
Spiros said...: You should look at "quality-adjusted life expectancy" added by the lock down versus "quality-adjusted life years lost" due to the economic downturn. The results are ambiguous. We saved many, many high-risk older adults with multiple illnesses. But we also lost many (not as many, obviously) young and overwhelmingly poor people who committed suicide or drank themselves to death or who lost their jobs and couldn't afford to pay for health care or even life-saving medications. So it's kind of a wash.; 7/28/24, 6:44 PM
Iman said...: …and we’ll return to “The Death of Expertise” after these brief words from our sponsor, Fauci’s Snakeoil Suppositories.; 7/28/24, 6:48 PM
MarKT said...: In other news, 41,000 traffic fatalities would have been prevented if the speed limit was reduced to 5 mph.; 7/28/24, 6:48 PM
Mason G said...: "After being worn, are true biohazards, littering the landscape."

This needs to be repeated. If masks work, they would be biohazards. Did anybody, anywhere, treat them as such?; 7/28/24, 6:50 PM
Koot Katmandu said...: All I can is B. S.; 7/28/24, 6:54 PM
Iman said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; 7/28/24, 6:54 PM
Drago said...: "I’ve had 6 shots. Wore a mask in a crowded room, not outside. Never had Covid."

Inga has decided demonstrating her profound ignorance in analyzing political polling data was not sufficient to truly drive home the degree to which she is a complete statistics moron so she decides to offer up this little anecdotal "gem" as well!

Thanks for making the effort Inga, but we were already quite aware of your mathematical limitations long before this.; 7/28/24, 6:59 PM
Original Mike said...: " The vaccine works by reducing the average number of new cases that a given case produces, and if that number drops to less than 1.0, the virus dies out. It doesn't prevent getting COVID or transmitting it, except for that vital average."

If the vaccine doesn't prevent getting or transmitting Covid, how does it reduce the average number of new cases?; 7/28/24, 7:00 PM
Drago said...: Remember, Inga called those of us that questioned the "rules" "murderers" when other nations experienced better results without those rules.

You know who Inga did NOT call murderers? Actual MS-13 illegal alien machete murderers.

So there's that.; 7/28/24, 7:02 PM
Mason G said...: "If the vaccine doesn't prevent getting or transmitting Covid..."

Is there anybody who says it does?; 7/28/24, 7:04 PM
mccullough said...: New England is the Whitest part of the country.

No sense measuring effect of the policies because they are ongoing. Kids cut off from in person school and socialization.

Suicide rates. Overdose rates. Addiction rates.

Fauci will be long dead and the effects of his idiocy will linger.

The people who told us heterosexuals were just as likely to get AIDS and that Girls can be Boys are nuts.; 7/28/24, 7:07 PM
MadisonMan said...: I’ve had 6 shots. Wore a mask in a crowded room, not outside. Never had Covid
I've had 3 shots. Then I stopped. Lived a normal life. Went to conferences via planes and/or trains.
Never had Covid.; 7/28/24, 7:09 PM
William said...: A cursory study of the history of medicine reveals the following: Doctors are frequently wrong. Doctors who are wrong frequently dig in their heels and resist correction.....I read a book about the Crimean War. That's when chloroform use was first adopted--by the Russians. The English doctors felt that the shock and pain that a patient felt during amputations had some kind of therapeutic value....I read a bio of the Duke of Wellington. While going deaf, he went to the foremost ear doctor of his day. The doctor prescribed some kind of acid solution to be poured into his ear. The solution didn't restore his hearing, but it did give him bouts of excruciating pain for several months. The treatment did, however, save his life. Wellington was so embittered by the experience that he avoided physicians for the rest of his long life.; 7/28/24, 7:20 PM
rhhardin said...: "If the vaccine doesn't prevent getting or transmitting Covid, how does it reduce the average number of new cases?"

If you get covid and infect 0.9 other people on the average, the number of new cases is (0.9) to the t power, where t is the time. The number of new cases falls like (0.9) raised to an increasing power, which goes to zero. If the number you infect is 2 cases, the number of cases goes like 2 to the t power, which goes quickly to infinity, i.e. gets the whole population.; 7/28/24, 7:27 PM
Darkisland said...: There were significantly higher CO2 concentrations behind the mask (3176 ppm) compared to the front (843 ppm) with an average of 49 minutes of continuous mask use. Of all the subjects, 76.6% had a behind-the-mask CO2 concentration of more than 2000 ppm (the threshold for clinical symptoms), and 12.2% had a CO2 concentration of at least 5000 ppm (occupational health exposure limit). The CO2 level behind the N-95 masks was highest (especially after exertion) and was lowest behind cloth masks. The combination of warm ambient temperature, an N-95 mask, exercise, and young age appeared to induce exceedingly high CO2 levels that should be avoided.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10324709/

John Henry; 7/28/24, 7:29 PM
ga6 said...: "Science" has adopted soviet style "show me a man and We will show you the crime" standard .

attributed to the Stalinist-era Soviet jurist Andrey Vyshinsky, or the Soviet secret police chief Lavrentiy Beria. Wikipedia; 7/28/24, 7:30 PM
They’re eating the cats 🐈 —They’re eating the dogs 🐕 said...: If you don’t trust doctors and science to keep you from getting sick, why the hell are you clogging up hospitals trusting them to cure you?

I thinking wearing a mask goes under the general category of "the least we can do". Healthcare workers and hospitals were overwhelmed. Every bit of prevention makes a difference. Relatively small sacrifice for each individual with the potential to reduce the spread of illnesses in the community. Arguing about the science is a red herring IMO. An excuse to avoid an inconvenience.

"I see the disinfectant that knocks it out in a minute, one minute. And is there a way we can do something like that by injection inside or almost a cleaning? As you see, it gets in the lungs, it does a tremendous number on the lungs, so it would be interesting to check that." ~ Donald Trump

Why not question the guy that suggested injecting disinfectants like bleach into the body as a potential treatment?
How many Americans tried that?; 7/28/24, 7:31 PM
Dave said...: From the cited study:

"An additional challenge is that initial COVID-19 exposure was concentrated in a small number of locations: primarily New York state, its surrounding states, and Massachusetts."

"This study’s methods departed from prior related research20,21,40,41 in 2 particularly important ways. First, the analysis started in July 2020, 4 months after the first substantial COVID-19 fatalities in the US."

From the article:
"The excess death rate in Massachusetts, the state with the tightest Covid restrictions during the study period, was less than one-fifth that of Mississippi, the state with the loosest rules."

The study admits it compared death rates of previously exposed populations to unexposed populations.; 7/28/24, 7:31 PM
Mason G said...: "Why not question the guy that suggested injecting disinfectants like bleach into the body as a potential treatment?"

He didn't suggest injecting disinfectants. You're just too stupid (or disingenuous) to understand that.

"How many Americans tried that?"

Probably none. Normal people know he didn't say to do that. The only people who think Trump said to try that are people like you- those who'd die before doing anything he suggested. I am convinced if he were so inclined to make the effort, he could get leftards to eat their own shit.; 7/28/24, 7:41 PM
Jim at said...: I thinking wearing a mask goes under the general category of "the least we can do".

No. It goes under the general category of tyrants forcing people to comply with an edict that does nothing to control an airborne virus.

We've long known the masks were worthless, yet you still want people to bend to your will.

And you call us the fascists.; 7/28/24, 7:44 PM
Bob Boyd said...: You know what would have saved even more lives?
Not doing fucking illegal gain of function experiments on a dangerous virus.
This is victim blaming.; 7/28/24, 7:46 PM
rehajm said...: I’ve had 6 shots. Wore a mask in a crowded room, not outside. Never had Covid

The in law aunt and uncle never had shots. They eat two brazil nuts a day. They are elderly but still travel the world for business. Never had covid…; 7/28/24, 7:46 PM
Drago said...: "Why not question the guy that suggested injecting disinfectants like bleach into the body as a potential treatment?
How many Americans tried that?"

LOL

LLR-democratical Rich, left alone by LLR-democratical Chuck, having to fend for himself decides now is the time to join Mutaman is this hilariously long-ago debunked hoax!

Demonstrating conclusively how bereft of arguments for Kamala-la-la-la-la and the New Soviet Democraticals they happen to be.

Rich continues to swirl the Talking Points Drain as he clearly has no idea where to turn next and parroting Chuck Schumer's comments about JD Vance being replaced is really a cry for rhetorical help....with none on the way.

Next up for the very, very alone LLR-democratical Rich: Have you guys heard about Trump Russia Collusion?! There's this dossier and everything!!!; 7/28/24, 7:59 PM
Darkisland said...: More wizdumb from Rich

"I see the disinfectant that knocks it out in a minute, one minute. And is there a way we can do something like that by injection inside or almost a cleaning? As you see, it gets in the lungs, it does a tremendous number on the lungs, so it would be interesting to check that." ~ Donald Trump

Why not question the guy that suggested injecting disinfectants like bleach into the body as a potential treatment?

It takes a really large dose of stupidity to get from "disinfectant" to "bleach".

President Trump never said "bleach" did he? He was speaking specifically about a UV technology that was "injected" into the lungs. A relatively new but hardly unknown treatment at the time

https://www.cedars-sinai.org/newsroom/reduced-viral-loads-seen-in-covid-19-patients-treated-with-uva-light/

That's one link, you can find a lot more.

I've worked professionally in pharmaceutical manufacturing since 1976. A lot of it in what is called "Aseptic manufacturing" which requires a level of sterility that makes hospital ORs, clean as they may be, look like garbage pits. I have a lot of experience with disinfectants: Off the top of my head alcohol, vaporous hydrogen peroxide, liquid hydrogen peroxide, quaternary disinfectants, UV light, dry heat, wet and dry steam and more. I don't recall ever seeing bleach used as a disinfectant in a pharmaceutical plant.

Bleach IS a reasonably good disinfectant. But only a small percentage of disinfectants are bleach. And most are better than bleach.

Some people are so stupid that they think the word bleach means disinfectant and there is nothing else. Even some people who have spent their lives in nursing and really should know better.

And there may even be uses for injecting bleach into humans, Though I don't know of any offhand. We certainly inject all sorts of other deadly poisons into people. Botulin toxin is one that is pretty well known. I've worked with some oncology drugs that are even more dangerous.

I drink a couple of liters of clorine bleach every day. It's kept me going all these years. Very low concentration. It is called tap water.

It is the dose that makes the poison. In small enough doses, pretty much nothing is poison. In large enough doses, even bottled water is poisonous.

John Henry; 7/28/24, 8:02 PM
Darkisland said...: We should be more specific when we talk about bleach as a disinfectant. There are several types of bleach. Not all are good disinfectants.

Only chlorine bleach is commonly touted as a household disinfectant.

John Henry; 7/28/24, 8:07 PM
Dave said...: Great post from John Henry 7/28/24, 8:02 PM citing sources and providing definitions.; 7/28/24, 8:14 PM
Greg the Class Traitor said...: Northeastern states

You mean like NY, where the Gov did the bidding of the hospital execs who funded his 2018 Primary win, and forced nursing homes to take in Covid infected seniors, thus leading to thousands of other dead from Covid seniors?; 7/28/24, 8:18 PM
Greg the Class Traitor said...: Lance said...
Weasel words for the win: "Could", "some", "probably", "estimated", "likely".

Yep, with not a single demonstration of sufficient rigor to make it worth my time to look at the "study"; 7/28/24, 8:19 PM
PB said...: I sense bull crap.; 7/28/24, 8:23 PM
walter said...: "It takes a really large dose of stupidity to get from "disinfectant" to "bleach".
--
Wipe it with a cloth..dipped in Formula 409.; 7/28/24, 8:30 PM
walter said...: San Fran promoting mask use again.
And this article.; 7/28/24, 8:33 PM
Mr. Majestyk said...: You know the whole vaccine and mask push was just a power play because illegal immigrants were completely exempt from these efforts. And rather than following Trump's successful border policies, which had greatly reduced the flow of unvaccinated, unmasked illegals into the country in the middle of a pandemic, Biden reversed those policies, encouraged as many illegals to come as possible, financially supported them, but didn't care about their vaccination status.; 7/28/24, 8:34 PM
polpnw said...: did these people not get the news that the masks and six feet were not based on anything?

And did they note how many people according to them died due to participating in protests that took place that Summer?; 7/28/24, 8:34 PM
grog said...: Blogger Inga said...
“I’ve had 6 shots. Wore a mask in a crowded room, not outside. Never had Covid.”

How do you know that? Were you ever tested?

I had COVID twice if the tests can be trusted (test required by my employer). The first time the results came back positive completely surprised me because I didn't feel or notice any problem at all.; 7/28/24, 8:34 PM
tcrosse said...: The Establishment was happy to exploit the pandemic to oust Trump. They were more interested in that than in saving lives.; 7/28/24, 8:34 PM
RCOCEAN II said...: In this age of propganda, and agenda driven "science", I don't know if this study is true or false.

Seriously. 20 years ago, when I was more naive and trusting, I would accept this news article and the study it was based on without question. Now, I'm "maybe yes, maybe no".

And it seems that all that crap about "Staying 6 feet away" was fake and phony. As was the "We need ventilators". If you look at the death rates in many of the red states and compare them to the blue states that were very restrictive, there isn't much difference.

Covoid killed old people. And those with other serious diseases. Was it worth locking down society for 2 years to reduce the death rate for those two groups? I dont know. And how many people died of OTHER diseases while the Hospitals were shut down to "Flatten the curve"?; 7/28/24, 8:42 PM
RCOCEAN II said...: BTW, me and wifey did quite well under the lockdown. We just worked from home. And we were able to enjoy several near by parks without the usual mobs of tourists.

And we had no elderly parents to worry about. Some who really suffered durng the epidemic might be more negative.; 7/28/24, 8:45 PM
Skeptical Voter said...: Did we actually havde 250,000 people die from Covid?; 7/28/24, 8:55 PM
Oso Negro said...: What would life in the United States be like if Covid had killed 100% of the residents of counties that voted for Biden? Now reverse the experiment and imagine it had killed all the residents of counties that voted for Trump. Seems to me that in one case you are left with an improved society by traditional measures.; 7/28/24, 8:56 PM
walter said...: Skeptical Voter said...
Did we actually havde 250,000 people die from Covid?
--
Amplified PCR tests, no outpatient treatment, deadly inpatient protocols..shitty hospital covid atatus tracking.; 7/28/24, 9:06 PM
Darkisland said...: Just a reminder

Deaths per million population

China 4 (as if four, not a typo)
World 899
US 3,642

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

Yeah, yeah, yeah I know. We overcounted by a lot. I don't trust the Chinese not to have undercounted.

But I have yet to see any explanation why our reported death rate was almost 1,000 times the reported Chinese rate. And 4 times the world rate.

A conspiracy theorist might think that the Fauci funded Chinese used all that DNA from 23 and Met, Ancestry.com etc to develop a disease that would kill Americans but not Chinese. But that's just a Krazy Konspiracy theory.

John Henry; 7/28/24, 9:07 PM
walter said...: RCOCEAN II said...
BTW, me and wifey did quite well under the lockdown.
<
Some who really suffered durng the epidemic might be more negative.
--
Ya think? Public sector employees?; 7/28/24, 9:08 PM
Darkisland said...: Blogger Inga said...

“I’ve had 6 shots. Wore a mask in a crowded room, not outside. Never had Covid.”

At least you don't have the effrontery to call it a "vaccine".

I had 1, in the summer of 21, only because I was basically forced to get a vaccine certificates and getting the jab was the only way to do it.

I was tested perhaps 10-15 times as required by clients. Never tested positive.

In 2019 I sent a day in the VA getting a full cardio workup, stress test, CAT scan, the works. I was pronounced in excellent condition.

In 2022 I spent 10 days in the hospital after having chest pains. I wound up with 3 stents and am considerably weaker than I used to be.

Absolute pure coincidence. Nothing at all to do with the shot. So the doctors tell me.

John Henry; 7/28/24, 9:15 PM
Maynard said...: I’ve had 6 shots. Wore a mask in a crowded room, not outside. Never had Covid.

Did anyone notice that Dumb Inga referred to one instance of wearing a mask in a crowded room?

My take is that she sheltered in her basement just like her demented hero Joe Biden.

Those of us with an IQ above room temperature tried to go about our normal lives without deathly fear of a politicized, but simple virus. The neurotic Ingas of this world tried and mostly succeeded in forcing us to bend to their fears.; 7/28/24, 9:17 PM
donald said...: No shots, mask only when flying, traveled extensively worked around hundreds of people, not fat, 60-63 when it was happening. I knew what a virus is, so I knew this was insane and evil. If you bought into the terror, you were retarded.; 7/28/24, 9:26 PM
walter said...: "Nothing at all to do with the shot. So the doctors tell me."
--
They like their jobs.

"If you bought into the terror, you were retarded. "
Perhaps if you saw someone suffer with the real deal, you'd think otherwise.
I have a client and a brother, both had this. Unlike anything they had before.
That can be true right alongside horrible medical response.; 7/28/24, 9:37 PM
Butkus51 said...: let me know when they figure out the woman thing; 7/28/24, 9:50 PM
bobby said...: So much of "science" these days seems to consist of avoiding having your old mandates labeled as stupid.

Lysenko lives.; 7/28/24, 9:51 PM
Bruce Hayden said...: The ModRNA vaccines killed. Turbo cancers. Myocarditis and pericarditis. Etc. and, it turns out that almost every instance of catching the virus multiple times is found in the multiply vaxed. Fauci has caught it at least 5 times. FJB is in a similar situation. And there have been a number of instances where cognitive declines, like FJB very possibly suffered, came right after vaxing, or if over vaxed, when they caught COVID-19 again. Did this kill Diane Feinstein?

What the proponents of the vaccines never really explained was why they thought that a vaccine that produced Wuhan variant spike proteins would prevent catching variants with Delta, or esp Omicron variants. The key difference in these variants is precisely in those two spike proteins - very likely because the variants apparently mutated around the vaccines, or more accurately, mutated around the Wuhan variant spike proteins produced by the vaccines. By Omicron, the cross reactivity between the virus and the vaccines was negligible. Anyone pushing multiple shots of the ModRNA vaccines - ask them how they are supposed to work? What is the purpose of the 2nd and subsequent jabs? Does that explanation make sense?; 7/28/24, 10:20 PM
Shahid Q. Public said...: This is a propaganda piece pretending to be a study. See the recent paper Epidemic outcomes following government responses to COVID-19: Insights from nearly 100,000 models for a more honest attempt to come to grips with the mixed data, which demonstrates the poverty of data support for these kinds of conclusions.

Just think: are the demographics of Massachusetts and Mississippi similar in a way meaningful to determining health outcomes? How about comparative obesity levels, for example, which was a key indicator of morbidity and mortality? No, they ignored things like this instead just sectioning based on age groups and handwaving everything else away. No, excess mortality doesn’t tell you much when the excess mortality is driven by variables you refuse to control for.

This is not science, but its corruption.; 7/28/24, 10:22 PM
Bruce Hayden said...: “I had 1, in the summer of 21, only because I was basically forced to get a vaccine certificates and getting the jab was the only way to do it.”

“In 2022 I spent 10 days in the hospital after having chest pains. I wound up with 3 stents and am considerably weaker than I used to be.”

Most often, the damage doesn’t really get going until the 2nd jab. Why? Likely because the first jab teaches the immune system memory that the two (Wuhan variant) spike proteins were antigens. Subsequent jabs just trigger massive immune responses to the two Wuhan variant spike proteins. It worked, a bit, when the spike proteins in the virus hadn’t mutated much, so there was decent cross reactivity between the antibodies generated and the vaccines. After that, the vaccines continue to generate major immune responses, but didn’t really address the later variants. Looking backwards, it was idiotic.; 7/28/24, 10:34 PM
RCOCEAN II said...: "Ya think? Public sector employees?"

Questions and not a comment? Ya think?

I love To post comments on the coments and make them cryptic and hostile and low energy. Ya think?; 7/28/24, 10:39 PM
walter said...: So sorry. I didn't think that was cryptic.
Are you both public sector employees?
Many in private sector had no remote opportunities.; 7/28/24, 10:43 PM
walter said...: But it's reassuring that some fared well.; 7/28/24, 10:46 PM
Aggie said...: The bloody-minded pirate in me suggests that the best way to get to the bottom of all this, is to strap the principals into a sturdy wooden chair and commence asking the questions, and give them a fresh shot of 'Safe & Effective' each time they're caught in a lie - or are reluctant to answer.; 7/28/24, 10:59 PM
AlbertAnonymous said...: One of my favorite (well humorous to me) memories was when mid-pandemic California had a rash of wildfires spewing smoke envy where through the state. The scolds in the media were perplexed by the news they had to report that the “masks” everyone was required to wear (supposedly to stop the virus) could not stop the smoke from affecting people (even those the smoke particles were larger than the Covid)…

If it’s not stopping the larger smoke particles, it’s NOT stopping the smaller Covid particles.; 7/29/24, 12:18 AM
Mutaman said...: Achilles said...

"My favorite part of COVID was when Inga and Mutaman went from "YOU MUST STAY HOME" to "ITS OK FOR BLM TO BURN LOOT MURDER" in the span of 20 minutes because they are dumb trained seals that clap to whatever their masters tell them to."

Poor dumb Achilles.
BLM has never effected my life so I've never commented about them one way or another.; 7/29/24, 12:20 AM
Beaver7216 said...: Interesting. There might even be some truth in the study.
It seems strange for a "scientific" study to reference "blue states and red states" or "Republican governors and legislatures" as these terms lack concise definitions.
Did the study properly account for the excess mortality, by July 2020, in the NE states used as a baseline? NJ, NY, and CT had excessive mortality initially and perhaps the population was culled of the elderly prior to the study dates.
Did the study proper account for income, healthcare, and % of elderly differences in the 10 states they consider "red" states?
Even if true, the US still would have ended up with c. 300 deaths per 100,000 population which ranks it 24th highest out of 232 countries. And 600,000 deaths under Biden despite the US, by Jan 20, 2021, being 3rd in the world in vaccinations per capita-behind Israel and UK-and had produced 28% of the vaccine doses worldwide with over 1 million doses.
And we won't go into economic or educational costs which the study ignored, apparently.
Will there be a follow-up study on the impact of Democratic Governors in NY, NJ, and CT initially following poor preventive measures?; 7/29/24, 12:22 AM
BUMBLE BEE said...: Certainly thinned out the Social Security rolls didn't it.; 7/29/24, 2:01 AM
BUMBLE BEE said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; 7/29/24, 2:01 AM
polpnw said...: every region had it's own issues but some things were common across all.
That being said , https://www.eugyppius.com/p/unredacted-rki-protocols-lay-bare; 7/29/24, 2:52 AM
polpnw said...: during the "study period", which i have a feeling does not include the first 4 months of 2020. And since they cite the vax, probably not until last quarter of 2020. So they missed all the "excess deaths", of which there were a lot, that happened in the NorthEast.; 7/29/24, 3:01 AM
MadTownGuy said...: BUMBLE BEE said...

"Certainly thinned out the Social Security rolls didn't it."

A New Report Says The COVID Recession Has Pushed Social Security Insolvency Up A Year (NPR); 7/29/24, 4:21 AM
s'opihjerdt said...: You could save more lives by incinerating the Chinese germ warfare lab.; 7/29/24, 5:19 AM
donald said...: “Never, ever, ever take it for granted that scientists are made from finer clay than the rest of us”.

Pretty much every single expert/professional/legal/educational class while you’re at it.; 7/29/24, 5:55 AM
Jersey Fled said...: “You could save more lives by incinerating the Chinese germ warfare lab.”

Good point. You might also have avoided it completely if Fauci hadn’t illegally funded gain of function studies there.; 7/29/24, 6:14 AM
Leland said...: How many lives were saved because some places let people go outside and take in Vitamin D?; 7/29/24, 6:22 AM
Ralph L said...: Motor vehicle death and homicide jumped over 20% among blacks for 2 years after Floyd's death. I'm sure they weren't deducted from the excess deaths, because the racial wreckoning must be ignored.; 7/29/24, 6:35 AM
dbp said...: It was well established early on, that Covid 19 was a mild disease in the young. The best response would have been to keep every school and daycare open, as well as gyms. Isolate the very old and weak, and not much else.; 7/29/24, 7:39 AM
BobJustBob said...: Every mask I ever got at work came out of a box that Said Not For Medical Use and I'd bet I'm not the only one.; 7/29/24, 8:04 AM
Rusty said...: You will eventually. Everyone will.; 7/29/24, 8:08 AM
Rusty said...: Got the shot. Got the boosters. Got covid anyway.; 7/29/24, 8:09 AM
Rusty said...: I'm just picturing Mutaman driving around in his Toyota Corolla with a mask on.; 7/29/24, 8:16 AM
Curious George said...: "Blogger Inga said...
“I’ve had 6 shots. Wore a mask in a crowded room, not outside. Never had Covid.”

Perhaps being a dullard is the best medicine?; 7/29/24, 8:48 AM
Unknown said...: Posts like this are why I stopped coming here every day. I get tired of being trolled by the hostess.; 7/29/24, 8:55 AM
Curious George said...: No vaccine, only wore masks when required to. Didn't avoid crowds, just lived a normal life as much as was allowed. Had two episodes where I had a very low grade fever for a couple of days. No idea if it was Covid. First episode they were only testing if you were admitted to the hospital. Never went for testing for the second episode. Only time I did get tested was required for a colonoscopy. I brought up the low fever and the PA was aghast that I has not gone for testing. I asked what would testing to for me? He didn't really have a answer other then "you'd know for sure," but what the hell would that do for me?; 7/29/24, 8:58 AM
Static Ping said...: "probably" is doing a lot of work here.

Do remember that you can get a "scientific" study to say whatever you want. "A study says" is roughly on the same level with "anonymous sources say." Given the current state of peer review, assuming it was peer reviewed that means nothing other than it was not obviously fraudulent, and sometimes not even that. Even if it is completely above board, you need a lot more than one study to even provide an interesting argument. Even rigorously performed and well-intentioned scientific studies come up with the wrong answer by bad luck.

Then you have the matter that the newspapers have been "curating" the news to get their narratives across. If the study said the opposite, there is a strong likelihood you would never hear about it, at least not by this source.

This sort of science via press release has been going on since at least the 80s. The only shock is people still fall for it.; 7/29/24, 9:05 AM
LakeLevel said...: What no-one remembers is that New York Governor Cuomo chose to force Covid positive elderly patients into nursing homes thus spreading the disease, instead of putting them into massive facilities set up by Donald Trump, thus killing tens of thousands. So Trump got no credit, which is good (in Democrat psycho world).; 7/29/24, 9:06 AM
gilbar said...: so..
Massachusetts has 6.5% Black population
Mississippi has a 36.4% Black population

but, THE ONLY DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THESE STATES, was that Mass had draconian covid policies?
I WONDER how the age demographics compare?; 7/29/24, 9:11 AM
FullMoon said...: Virus originated with Chinese selling bats for food in open air markets. So say scientists and govt officials, and dullards.; 7/29/24, 9:46 AM
FullMoon said...: SEarch: covid originated from bats news 2020. Plenty more "news" stories like this one..

The Origins Of COVID-19? WHO Report Points To A Bat After All
March 29, 20214:23 PM ET; 7/29/24, 9:50 AM
Bruce Hayden said...: After reading this article and commenting yesterday, we flew into Missoula. We picked up hamburgers at 5 guys on the east side of town (by the university). And popped into the Albertsons across the street. Bad memories. In spring of 2021, we had driven from PHX up through NM, CO, WY, and much of MT, with nary a mask in sight. But walked into that Albertsons, and a middle aged guy got in my face about not being masked. Ultimately we were screaming at each other. First he was trying to tell me that masking was to protect everyone. I asked if he was vaxed. Yes. So was I (2 Moderna Jabs in Fed and March). So, since we were both immune (still believing the nonsense about the vaccines preventing the virus), why were we still masking? Because those are the Rules!!! A little twerp, apparently the night manager, and still likely a student still told me it was company policy, and was posted outside (wind had blown his sign so I couldn’t see it). Since then I have been a firm advocate of building a wall around Missoula, to keep the crazy leftists out of (the rest of) MT, or ceding the city to CA. Except, in the hotel we are staying in, on the west side of town, a woman just complimented me on my (navy Trump) hat. So there may be hope yet.; 7/29/24, 9:58 AM
Bruce Hayden said...: “It was an indoor disease, and you could see it in realtime when different regions spiked”

So, in CO, the ski areas were closed for awhile. Then, that was lifted. But Vail Resorts balked, so it was reinstated. Almost complete lost ski season. So, a lot of people switched to backcountry skiing. Then, that was banned, and the Governor had CDOT plow in all of the pullouts on Loveland Pass. For safety from COVID-19. We are talking 10k-12k elevation, with enough less atmosphere, that you can easily sunburn. And you are rarely closer than 1/4 mile from the nearest other party. And yes, the Governor who ordered the pullouts plowed in is a Democrat (mail in voting, of course).; 7/29/24, 10:08 AM
Darkisland said...: In January 21 I was doing some work in McPherson KS. I went to this dive bar for some supper (Dining choices are limited there). As I was walking in, 2 couples were walking out. One of the women plants herself in front of me blocking my way.

I did not know what to say. I thought perhaps I had met her in the plant so said hello. She said hello, pulled my mask off and threw it on the floor. Then told me "No masks allowed in here" and walked around me and out the door. Perfectly friendly, nothing aggressive.

Then I looked around and NOBODY, customers or staff, was wearing masks. I thought "This is my kind of place."

KS law at the time required masks and they were de riguer elsewhere in the town.

I was in Charlotte NC in the summer of 20. The gov ordered mandatory masking beginning August 1. As I was still there, I began wearing a beard net. This is a wide open mesh, like a hair net. It was required in the plant to keep hairs out of the product. I got some snarky looks but nobody, including at stores and restaurants said anything.

Later a client gave me a 10 pack of pharmaceutical clean room masks. These are very thin open cell foam. A bit better than the beard net but not much. They are designed to be worn under a real clean room mask to prevent chafing.

I wore these continually until masks were no longer required. Every once in a while someone would question it. I would pull up the data sheet on my phone and that would shut them up.

John Henry; 7/29/24, 10:27 AM
Darkisland said...: Someone mentioned that the earloop masks were marked not approved for medical use.

Key word is "approved"

Medical masks, such as surgeons use, are essentially the same material. Probably no more or less effective except that they are larger and tie behind the head giving a better seal.

But they are "approved" by the FDA as a "Medical Device" in compliance with "Medical Device Good Manufacturing Practices"

As I said, cost of materials is probably similar. But the cost of testing to get the approval and the cost of documentation, management, machinery, buildings and so on adds a lot to the final price.

My guess would be that an identical "approved for medical use" mask would cost 10-15 times the cost of the unapproved mask.

John Henry; 7/29/24, 10:33 AM
Tina848 said...: Let's start with the fact that most people wearing a mask did it wrong. To wear a mask properly, you must be clean shaven if a man. Did everyone shave and I miss it? N95- require a seal, most people cannot get an adequate one.

Population differences among states. Mississippi is Blacker and fatter than most states. Their COVID death rate will be higher due to Type 2 diabetes, Hypertension and heart disease - regardless of mask status.

Maybe interventional therapies like steroid, antibiotics, nebulizers and inhalers given early would have done a better job.

You cannot game theory this out with data.; 7/29/24, 10:59 AM
walter said...: Surgical masks are for bacteria and spittle, not viruses.
N95 may help very slightly if worn properly and changed often.; 7/29/24, 12:45 PM
RigelDog said...: I just now read a comment from an expert I trust (was it Vinay Prasad?) that this study is bad right out of the gate because it excluded data from the first four months!; 7/29/24, 1:11 PM
Keith said...: I work as a surgeon and - not meant as a brag but just saying - my training was at elite institutions. School, training, and work means reviewing research papers regularly. The devil is in the details. A lot of papers claim masks work but you need to delve into the statistics. The results of the paper will be reported as say X% for this group and Y% for that group and the results are "statistically significant." "Statistically significant" means there is a 5% chance the difference between the groups is due to noise not a real difference. The more important numbers however are the 95% confidence intervals. There is always a "plus-minus" to any measurement and the 95% confidence interval means "here are the numbers we got. But in reality there is a bit of plus-minus error. We are 95% confident the real outcome is between this and that (which is the 95% confidence interval). A lot of papers come up with results that say masks work and it is statistically significant. The problem is that in NEARLY EVERY study in every major journal, the 95% confident intervals overlap (!), which means the conclusion of the paper should NOT be masks protect but rather masks may protect, and we are 95% certain the benefit of the mask is somewhere between no benefit and a big benefit. For example, let's say 5% of masked people get Covid and 10% of non-masked get it and this is "statistically significant." Great. Except when you actually read the data, it will be something like 95CI masked 3-8% and 95CI non masked is 7-12%. So masks might in fact provide great protection or might be useless. The data are ambiguous and an intellectually honest person would say "data do not support mask use."

Next the most trustworthy high quality study is a randomized control trial, ideally double blinded (not possible with masks). Next would be something like case-control or similar. I am aware of only one RCT published in a major journal and that showed no benefit to masks. There was another major study in a major journal that was the next best quality study I read that showed no benefit. So the best studies in fact show no benefit - it's lower quality studies that find a difference between the groups.

This is to say nothing of the crisis in reproducibility in science where someone publishes something and no one can get the same results as that guy.

In REAL science you cannot say something is so without data. If the data do not unambiguously support your proposition you cannot say it is so. The data do NOT support using masks and in fact no one believed masks were protective of viruses until 2019. In fact the CDC looked retrospectively at different virus pandemics and found - although I don't think they have data to support it - that masks were ineffective. In our surgical training we were trained that masks are to stop you from spitting into the incision that is within hand reach of your mouth. No one in surgery ever thought it would protect against aerosolized viruses.

Some economic science is real. Some is nonsense. This person obvious does not know how to read and evaluate medical science papers. He assumes that masks work and then from that assumption says "assuming masks work, this is how many people would have been saved." It's the classic economist problem. Two economists are stuck in a 10 foot deep pit. How do they get out? "Assume an 11 foot ladder."; 7/29/24, 1:54 PM
Mutaman said...: Rusty said...

"I'm just picturing Mutaman driving around in his Toyota Corolla with a mask on."

Fake news- actually its a Mercedes.
One of the many problems with the Know Nothings is that they get bent out of shape by things which have no effect on them.; 7/29/24, 2:04 PM
Keith said...: Blogger Darkisland said...

Just a reminder

Deaths per million population

China 4 (as if four, not a typo)
World 899
US 3,642

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

Yeah, yeah, yeah I know. We overcounted by a lot. I don't trust the Chinese not to have undercounted.

But I have yet to see any explanation why our reported death rate was almost 1,000 times the reported Chinese rate. And 4 times the world rate.

A conspiracy theorist might think that the Fauci funded Chinese used all that DNA from 23 and Met, Ancestry.com etc to develop a disease that would kill Americans but not Chinese. But that's just a Krazy Konspiracy theory.

John Henry

7/28/24, 9:07 PM

...

Everyone admitted to the hospital when Covid was a thing was tested for Covid. Hospital reimbursement rates were dramatically more with a Covid diagnosis. My recollection is the fee for pneumonia admission was 3X the reimbursement as compared to without. The fee for intubation was somewhere around 3X if you intubated a Covid patient. How were you classified as a Covid patient? EITHER you tested positive, including false-positives, OR you had flulike symptoms and a contact with Covid. Everyone thus classified as a Covid patient counted as a Covid death, including motor vehicle accidents, cancer, etc. So the USA Covid mortality rate does not count how many people died FROM Covid, it counts how many people died that also tested positive for Covid. I saw interviews with heads of state Depts of Health that asked how could a motor vehicle accident victim be classified as a Covid death? The answer was that if they are a Covid patient they are a Covid death unless it is later determined not to be the cause. How many employees at DOH do they have reviewing every death and removing inappropriate deaths from the roles? I'd bet zero.

Additionally there was a study out of a children's hospital where they gave the rate of Covid deaths in children and it was remarkably high. Someone reviewed the numbers and found that it represented kids who died testing positive for Covid but almost none of the deaths were related to Covid. Some tiny fraction.; 7/29/24, 2:22 PM
Keith said...: Blogger RCOCEAN II said...

In this age of propganda, and agenda driven "science", I don't know if this study is true or false.

Seriously. 20 years ago, when I was more naive and trusting, I would accept this news article and the study it was based on without question. Now, I'm "maybe yes, maybe no".

And it seems that all that crap about "Staying 6 feet away" was fake and phony. As was the "We need ventilators". If you look at the death rates in many of the red states and compare them to the blue states that were very restrictive, there isn't much difference.

Covoid killed old people. And those with other serious diseases. Was it worth locking down society for 2 years to reduce the death rate for those two groups? I dont know. And how many people died of OTHER diseases while the Hospitals were shut down to "Flatten the curve"?

7/28/24, 8:42 PM

...

I was coming in for an emergency operation one night and the previous case was still going. I was annoyed they called me in and they were not ready for me and expressed that. The charge nurse - who is fantastic - said you're lucky you weren't the add on last night. I asked why?

There was a 30Y F with ruptured appendix and they took hours and eventually could not close because it was so perforated all they could do was pack the stomach and plan to come back later. I said that's something that happens in a third world small village, not USA. This never happens in USA. Charge said what happened was she'd been having stomach pains for a long long time but was too scared to come to the ER bec Covid. So she waited and waited until it developed into a problem so bad we just don't see this in first world countries.

Now think about everyone who delayed their cancer screenings and everyone who didn't come in for chest pain with massive heart attacks. So you have to ask yourself - is excess mortality from Covid or from people delaying treatment of treatable conditions that proved fatal bec of delay and fearmongering?; 7/29/24, 2:28 PM
Keith said...: Mason G said...

"If the vaccine doesn't prevent getting or transmitting Covid..."

Is there anybody who says it does?

7/28/24, 7:04 PM
...
We were told explicitly that the vaccine prevents getting Covid and prevents transmission. That is the reason - the ONLY reason - it was made mandatory and many people lost their jobs who refused to take it. Now people lie and say we were not told that. But that's a lie. That is the only justification to make it mandatory. Otherwise take it if you want and don't take it if you want.; 7/29/24, 2:34 PM
Keith said...: Blogger Yancey Ward said...

"Strict nobody moves for three seeks lockdowns would have cut off the virus but would have been barbaric."

Would likely have put a cap on cases for only a month or two after the lifting of such a tight lockdown. COVID has reservoirs- carriers who are always spreading it asymptomatically. As soon as a lockdown ends, regardless of the length, the virus starts spreading again.

7/28/24, 6:41 PM

...

It would have to be worldwide. Otherwise if we did it but an illegal alien came across with it, it would start all over again. Or someone from Canada. Or someone flies in from Saudi Arabia. Or China...; 7/29/24, 2:36 PM
Keith said...: Blogger ~ Gordon Pasha said...

VINAY PRASAD, MD, USCF physician says "hold on a minute,"

"In conclusion, if someone tells you this randomized control trial proves that wearing surgical masks work, the only thing they've successfully proven is that their brain doesn't work. Knowing how to read articles should be the fundamental education of medical school, instead it is memorizing trivialities. We need more randomized control trials of masking so we can decide whether or not the few zealots who continue to mask today are doing something sensible, or crazy. Until we get those studies we don't know for sure, though some of us have a guess."

https://substack.com/home/post/p-146997346

7/28/24, 5:49 PM

...

One of the papers I read compared either N95 to surgical masks or surgical masks to paper masks or cloth masks. There was no "no mask" group or control group. Why not? They answered that exact question! Something along the lines of "because we know that masks work it was unethical to include a no-mask group." Well... we DON'T know that masks work. That is kind of the whole point of science. You don't assume anything. You test hypotheses.; 7/29/24, 2:40 PM
Keith said...: Blogger Inga said...

I’ve had 6 shots. Wore a mask in a crowded room, not outside. Never had Covid.

7/28/24, 5:16 PM

...

Actually we were told that most people with Covid were asymptomatic - this is the reason we had to wear masks - bec most people had no significant symptoms. So you may have had it and just didn't know about it.; 7/29/24, 2:44 PM
Mutaman said...: Keith said...

"If you look at the death rates in many of the red states and compare them to the blue states that were very restrictive, there isn't much difference."

???
https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/pressroom/sosmap/covid19_mortality_final/COVID19.htm; 7/29/24, 2:59 PM
Keith said...: Blogger Mutaman said...

Keith said...

"If you look at the death rates in many of the red states and compare them to the blue states that were very restrictive, there isn't much difference."

???
https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/pressroom/sosmap/covid19_mortality_final/COVID19.htm

7/29/24, 2:59 PM

...

That wasn't me.
Also ... the main risk factor for dying FROM Covid (vs dying WITH Covid) is old age and medical frailty. It's really not appropriate from a scientific perspective to make a study comparing states that vote one way against states that vote another without taking into account age and health. For example, (not knowing the statistics) I would presume people in Florida are generally older than say people in NJ. People go to FL to retire, not really to NJ. I would not be surprised if this difference were great and if the death rate were therefore greater in FL vs NJ. So it would be nonsense to compare one state vs another. What you COULD do were you inclined, could be to compare people >70Y, nonobese, no medical problems FL vs NJ. Or people 20-60 nonobese, no medical problems. Or something like that. Because comparing one state vs another - where probably that does not affect mortality - without considering the differences in factors that we KNOW affect mortality - obesity, diabetes, COPD, etc - is just nonsense.; 7/29/24, 4:10 PM
Keith said...: Blogger Mutaman said...

Keith said...

"If you look at the death rates in many of the red states and compare them to the blue states that were very restrictive, there isn't much difference."

???
https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/pressroom/sosmap/covid19_mortality_final/COVID19.htm

7/29/24, 2:59 PM

...

Also we really don't have any numbers about Covid deaths. Remember - Everyone who was classified as having Covid - whether they tested positive or had flulike symptoms and a Covid contact - counted as a Covid death. If they died at 20Y from real covid they were a covid death. And if they were almost dead in a nursing home but died at 90 from pneumonia (and were going to die anyway) they were a covid death. And if they were 90 and died from cancer but tested positive they were a covid death. And if they were 20 and otherwise healthy and died in a car crash but tested positive they were a covid death. Or a gunshot wound. Or drug overdose. We really don't know who died from covid (not with covid). Those statistics just don't exist. We do know, of everyone who died, who was thought probably to have covid, but that is kind of meaningless. The data were too corrupted.; 7/29/24, 4:20 PM
Robert Cook said...: "Masks don't work. 'More' doesn't make them work."

I first became infected with COVID (I believe) in December 2019, a month before it was even announced as a thing. At the time I thought it was a flu, but my wife and I flew to Florida to visit my family later that month. I wasn't totally 100%, but the worst "first few days/week" of it was past. I was puzzled in Florida when we went to a few of my favorite restaurants, and I noticed in each place the food didn't taste right, lacking flavor. I assumed the restaurants had changed their recipes or had lost their quality control. If was a few months later when "loss of ability to taste" was announced as one consequence of COVID that I put it together.

For the next two and a half years we were still in NYC, I did not become reinfected with COVID, despite walking in the streets around others and riding in buses and subways. New Yorkers all wore masks, and so did I.

Last year, in a more suburban area several states from New York, I became infected with COVID twice within three months, even though I am in no way in such close and frequent proximity to people here as I was daily in NYC. My wife, who was never infected in NYC, has also been infected by COVID several times since we have been here. Almost no one here wears masks in public anymore, including us.

I am convinced the distance recommendations and mask wearing did, in fact, prevent us (and many others) from becoming infected.

The deep-boned convictions and assertions by others that "masks don't work" are, I am certain, ideologically-driven, particularly given that most anti-COVID nuts are Trump nuts.; 7/29/24, 4:26 PM
Robert Cook said...: "The article doesn't explain what they mean by "excess deaths", how they determine how many deaths are in the Northeast were "excess", and how they attribute such deaths to masking practices. Without that information the article is meaningless."

I believe that refers to an anomalous spike in the average death rates in a given area during a particular time frame. In such cases, they try to identify what unusual factor(s) occurred in that place and time that could have been the cause of the spike in deaths, correlating the nature of illness(es) to the deaths recorded for those in the cohort of "excess" deaths.; 7/29/24, 4:35 PM
Mutaman said...: Keith said...

"Also we really don't have any numbers about Covid deaths. "

If that's true, then how can you previously post that there is no difference between the red states and the blue states? With all due respect, you are sort of all over the place.; 7/29/24, 4:39 PM
Mutaman said...: Robert Cook said...

"The deep-boned convictions and assertions by others that "masks don't work" are, I am certain, ideologically-driven, particularly given that most anti-COVID nuts are Trump nuts."

One of Trump's many failures regarding his incompetent leadership during covid is that he did his best to turn mask wearing into some sort of political statement.; 7/29/24, 4:46 PM
Robert Cook said...: "I knew the Althouse community would dismantle this so-called research."

Ha! But, they haven't. A self-congratulating throng of like-minded people sharing their politicized beliefs does not "dismantle" any research.; 7/29/24, 4:54 PM
Bryant said...: Reading the study and it seems pretty simple why the results are skewed.

The initial surge, from March 2020 to May 2020, was highly concentrated in 4 states (Connecticut, Massachusetts, New Jersey, and New York) containing 12% of the nation’s population but accounting for half of the COVID-19 fatalities

Then after all the people died the implemented the stricter rules, but there was already less susceptible people to die so they had fewer deaths. How can something like this pass for science.; 7/29/24, 5:52 PM
Keith said...: Mutaman has left a new comment on the post ""The US could have avoided almost 250,000 Covid-19 deaths if every state had adopted stricter mask and vaccine requirements seen in the Northeast..."":

Keith said...

"Also we really don't have any numbers about Covid deaths. "

If that's true, then how can you previously post that there is no difference between the red states and the blue states? With all due respect, you are sort of all over the place.

...

I'm telling you I did NOT make a comment about red vs blue states. I think you copied and pasted someone else's comment with my name on it.

My point stands though that no one really knows how many people died FROM Covid. Those statistics were never reported. Everyone classified as having Covid and who died was classified as a covid death, including gunshot wounds, motor vehicle accidents, etc. It would seem to me that if covid is a respiratory virus, anyone who died NOT of pneumonia would not be classified as a covid death, and everyone who did die from pneumonia would need to be studied to see if it were covid or flu or what have you. You would think someone who died from bacterial pneumonia would not be classified as a covid death, but what if covid led to the bacterial superinfection? In that case you would classify deaths as 1) clearly not covid, 2) clearly covid, and 3) possibly covid related. That is not what was recorded anywhere as far as I can tell. If you were thought to have covid - either tested positive or if you had flulike symptoms and a contact - you were classified as a covid death. Which is not a useful metric at all. We really have no idea how many people died from covid. We DO have an idea that, of everyone who died, how many were thought to have covid at the time of death.

It's like prostate cancer. Something like 75% of all elderly men have prostate cancer. A small number of them die FROM prostate cancer. For most it causes symptoms (obstruction) but not death. It would be like saying every elderly man who died with prostate cancer died from prostate cancer. That's not true. Prostate CA does not kill 75% of elderly men. That is probably more than any other disease. No other disease would be as fatal. Rather, something like 75% of men die WITH prostate not from. Unfortunately because of incentives (hospital payments and physician fees were dramatically increased with a diagnosis of covid) and probably laziness (it's much easier to say every death is covid rather than diving deep into every single chart to find the truth), we have no idea how many people covid killed.

And of course don't forget usually we have something like 40k-60k annual flu deaths. During covid there were nearly none. So did flu go away or were all of those deaths classified as covid? Nearly certainly the latter.; 7/29/24, 6:33 PM
Keith said...: Robert Cook said...

"The article doesn't explain what they mean by "excess deaths", how they determine how many deaths are in the Northeast were "excess", and how they attribute such deaths to masking practices. Without that information the article is meaningless."

I believe that refers to an anomalous spike in the average death rates in a given area during a particular time frame. In such cases, they try to identify what unusual factor(s) occurred in that place and time that could have been the cause of the spike in deaths, correlating the nature of illness(es) to the deaths recorded for those in the cohort of "excess" deaths.

7/29/24, 4:35 PM

...

Right. The problem is of course - is the increase from Covid or from the panic from covid causing people not to address real and deadly medical problems? I personally gave that story of the woman who nearly died (and may in fact have died - I didn't follow up. She was very sick.) because she was so scared of covid she failed to have her appendicitis treated when it was treatable. The obvious next concern would be how many people with chest pain, myocardial infarctions, pneumonia, appy's, etc. refused to obtain workup and treatment bec of the covid panic. Any increased mortality could be from covid or could be from avoiding life saving treatment bec of the hysteria brought up around covid.; 7/29/24, 6:37 PM
Keith said...: Robert Cook said...

"Masks don't work. 'More' doesn't make them work."

I first became infected with COVID (I believe) in December 2019, a month before it was even announced as a thing. At the time I thought it was a flu, but my wife and I flew to Florida to visit my family later that month. I wasn't totally 100%, but the worst "first few days/week" of it was past. I was puzzled in Florida when we went to a few of my favorite restaurants, and I noticed in each place the food didn't taste right, lacking flavor. I assumed the restaurants had changed their recipes or had lost their quality control. If was a few months later when "loss of ability to taste" was announced as one consequence of COVID that I put it together.

For the next two and a half years we were still in NYC, I did not become reinfected with COVID, despite walking in the streets around others and riding in buses and subways. New Yorkers all wore masks, and so did I.

Last year, in a more suburban area several states from New York, I became infected with COVID twice within three months, even though I am in no way in such close and frequent proximity to people here as I was daily in NYC. My wife, who was never infected in NYC, has also been infected by COVID several times since we have been here. Almost no one here wears masks in public anymore, including us.

I am convinced the distance recommendations and mask wearing did, in fact, prevent us (and many others) from becoming infected.

The deep-boned convictions and assertions by others that "masks don't work" are, I am certain, ideologically-driven, particularly given that most anti-COVID nuts are Trump nuts.

7/29/24, 4:26 PM
...

As they say, "data" is not the plural of "anecdote." As I noted, the science just does not support masks as preventing covid. Without data supporting an assertion, the assertion is null. There are lots of people who never wear masks and who are in densely populated areas that never got it. Lots of stories of people on road trips with someone who has covid and didn't get it. Lots of stories of a kid with covid who is physically constantly close with his parents but they don't get it and the reverse. Transmission was weird for sure. But at the end of the data the only thing that matters is data and data analysis and the statistics just don't support the use of masks as an effective prevention of covid spread.; 7/29/24, 6:40 PM
Keith said...: Mutaman - I did a copy and search. That quote you attributed to me was from ROcean. You inadvertently (I assume) attributed it to me.; 7/29/24, 6:41 PM
Mutaman said...: Keith said...

"Mutaman - I did a copy and search. That quote you attributed to me was from ROcean. You inadvertently (I assume) attributed it to me."

You're right, Keith. My mistake. Sorry about that.; 7/29/24, 6:54 PM
walter said...: Baghdad Bob's study of one, himself, is all the proof, myopic correlation he needs.
Do you have jabs, Cookie?; 7/29/24, 10:26 PM
walter said...: Because between those and Paxlovid, might have acquired a mangled immune system.; 7/30/24, 5:26 PM