"Absolutely the president is in this race, you've heard him say that time and time again... He is the best person to take on Donald Trump."
— Morning Joe (@Morning_Joe) July 19, 2024
— Biden campaign chair @jomalleydillon says Biden is not exiting the presidential race pic.twitter.com/zElSb3fG4X
July 19, 2024
Absolutely he's in... until he's out.
"Absolutely the president is in this race, you've heard him say that time and time again... He is the best person to take on Donald Trump."
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101 comments:
Negotiating how much they pay the Bidens to bow out?
Think about the question legally -- is Biden competent to decide to resign? If not, who has power of attorney over the president?
Is this a "coup de etat"?
Or an attempted coup since I still betting on Brandon being the candidate
John Henry
"As we saw last night, Donald Trump hasn't changed, it's all about himself"
Wow. What speech did she watch last night?
>Jen O'Malley Dillon - Biden-Harris Campaign Chair.<
Somewhere, Edward Smith smiles wistfully.
Maybe O'Malley still thinks lawfare will take Trump out and then Biden can drop out?
She was going to say "the same person after getting shot at" but she knew it wouldn't play in Erie PA.
Just once I'd like to see these fools ask if Joe's the best person to be leading the country right now.
Once again it depends on what the definition of "is" is....
So are they going to "save our democracy" by ignoring the will of the Democratic Party primary voters who gave Joe all the delegates and forcing them to accept a substitute? Because they think their democratic choice will lose? Is that now a totes legit reason for a coup d'etat?
Same old Trump?
NYPost headline: "A new Don: Donald Trump delivers heartfelt call for ‘unity’ and recounts harrowing assassination bid in RNC speech: ‘Every single moment we have on Earth is a gift’"
A changed man in my eyes.
Hunter is negotiating a family payoff.
Trump wasn't talking about himself, he was flattering women.
"Trump seems to mean well."
When has Joe presented his or any vision for the next four years? His whole strategy is to take Trump down and stomp on him. Joe’s message is the one that’s all about Trump and not about the country. She has it backwards. Sheesh.
schrodinger's president again
Wouldn't the Biden campaign chairman lose a lot of money if Biden drops out? Should we take the word of someone who has a financial stake in the outcome?
"In an interview released Wednesday Biden Says He’d Consider Dropping Out if a ‘Medical Condition’ Emerged." NYT
Obama is thinking, well if that's what it takes and son of a gun, just like that Biden comes down with Covid.
Coincidence?
In a romantic affair, the spouse is always the last to know. Those around him/her are careful with the facts and try to avoid hurt feelings.
In a political "affair," the person with the biggest ego and greatest resistance to negotiation is the last to know. Those around are secretive with their knives until they reach a desperate, critical point. They then they attack with fury and all together. See the earlier Julius Caesar post today.
Biden's political end was assured when all the top Democrats came out against him. Without big donor money and without Party support, they will either get rid of him before election or facilitate Trump's win to save other Democrats down the ticket. Is TDS really dying?
Pit bull stubbornness and monomaniacal obsessions are characteristic of dementia. My father suffered through it for 10 years. In particular, dementia fosters “They’re just out to get me,” paranoia, and as in non-demented life, this is always partly true. Which gets very confusing to a dementia sufferer. He’s afraid his caretakers are out to get him, and they are in a way, since they want to get him out of public life and prevent him from hurting himself and other people. The first instance of this struggle is when the caretaker demands the car keys.
I think this is a super complicated mess for the Democrats and I avoid feeling schadenfreude by focusing on what a great educational opportunity this is. To learn more about election law, for example, as in what happens if he drops out only after he's on the ballot? Apparently he can still be voted for and that's okay because we're really voting for the electors? The electoral college, what a great gift the founders gave us with that!
well he's always been ignorant, which some choose to call folksy, but is it really happening, like the many pseudo events they foist on us, or not
2) he has the leverage, the primary votes, you're really going to dismiss those, because reasons,
Mark Halperin has been pushing this story hard since yesterday, and his reporting seems to have been the source of much of the later 'news' reports. But it's just more of the same that's been playing out for weeks -- Congressional Dems are freaking out, and Dem donors and others are joining them, saying that Biden is a loser. But Biden says he doesn't see that.
OK -- jut more of the same-old. What we're seeing in real time doesn't make sense if, as Halperin contends, Biden has made the decision to quit the race on Sunday. Yes, the spoke-i-dokes types don't want to get ahead of Biden on something like that even if the decision had been made, but the way to do that is to stay off these shows and just issue anodyne press statements.
Same old talking points. Everything from the government sounds like an artificial intelligence response, maybe without the eloquence.
He was completely gone last election, despite the people who lectured us endlessly he was fine. Now those same people lecture us endlessly that the walls are closing in. I’ve heard nothing but rumor and conspiracy and it will remain that way only until it isn’t…
Replacement means you have to kick to the curb the people who have been President for his term. I suspect they want a second term. They are sooo close…
You'd think the sight of all those high-end donors and passionate college kids marching in the streets calling for Kamala would move the needle like a tsunami ground swell.
Yeah baby! That's the ticket. We will win with Brandon then lock him up in the basement, hauling him out on occasion. He's our guy! If you say so Jen.
Biden should resign. History would remember him fondly, which is all he wants.
It's not about him, though. The question the Dems need to ask is: What does Dr. Jill want? So far the answer seems to be: the WH life. What can they offer her that tops that? It must be exhausting to cover for a husband in early dementia, so she should be open to a negotiation. The Dems need to find the right golden parachute.
I don't understand what's happening at the White House. Last I heard yesterday afternoon, Pelosi had persuaded Biden, showing him devastating internal polling, losing badly to Trump. There was also talk of a threat if Biden didn't get out, he would not get funds for his presidential library.
The Covid story matched the story saying Biden would drop out if he got too sick to POTUS.
It was a fait accompli.
Should I stay or should I go now?
Should I stay or should I go now?
If I go there will be trouble
And if I stay it will be double
So come on and let me know
This indecision's bugging me (indecisión me molesta)
I also read (on Twitter/X, which I have only recently begun to navigate) that there is speculation that the covid vaccines, and Biden has had multiple shots, may have lead to his accelerated deterioration? He does seem especially vulnerable to that illness despite the innoculations. Not that anyone will ever admit that the one has anything to do with the other.
I saw a clip of him talking from 2021 and Biden was steady and articulate and coherent. It really is more obvious than I realized, how bad it is now, and I wonder if it's possible to track the deterioration since 2021. Was there a marked drop-off at a certain point or just this gradual wearing down. I don't pay any attention to him so I just figured he'd been like this for years and got away with hiding in the basement in 2020 so nobody noticed. When did the cover-up actually start?
Her blinks were way too long and she is exerting way too much control over her tone and her face.
She knows she is lying.
She knows everyone in the world knows she is lying.
Nobody on that clip looked happy to be there. They all know. Mika and Joe looked like a horse head was put in their bed.
Kate,
This isn’t “early dementia” - hasn’t been for at least two/three years.
Tom T. said...
Think about the question legally -- is Biden competent to decide to resign? If not, who has power of attorney over the president?
Doesn't this situation come up when old an old man leaves all of his stuff to some hot young wife and the kids sue?
I would be interested to watch lawyers discuss the case history there.
Isn't it scary eerie that the bullet meant for Trump, ultimately props him up, while helping take down Biden.
That's some out of sight cosmic karma right there.
William50 said...
"In an interview released Wednesday Biden Says He’d Consider Dropping Out if a ‘Medical Condition’ Emerged." NYT
Obama is thinking, well if that's what it takes and son of a gun, just like that Biden comes down with Covid.
Coincidence?
90% of simulations clearly planned and Biden knew the plan when he said that. He looks defeated in every way in recent videos.
The only way Biden stays in I see is if he starts a hot war with Russia. It has to be soon.
Keeping Biden is the only means to retain DP unity -- everyone in the Party is united against him, that's unity of a sort, and perhaps preferable to the Harris vs Newsom vs Buttafuck vs Mooshell vs Hildabeast five-way cutthroat cage match in store for the post-Biden DNC.
There's another upside to leaving FJB as the Democrat's flagship model -- he will have no legacy to speak of. The wreckage that November brings will leave none of the major Democrats standing unscathed. Whoever emerges from the depths of the pit of depravity that is the post-Henry Jackson Democratic Party, will have no connection to the leadership that created and sustained the massive fraud committed against the American people in 2020.
He goes in and out and in and out And in and out and in and out…
Biden can't say or do anything publicly to suggest he might leave the race until he is ready to leave the race.
The Dems are very confident that they can steal this election too.
If they do, all hell will break loose. The Dems are willing to risk Civil War in order to keep their grift going.
This is a Democratic war of retrenchment: (1) save the down ticket Democrats with distance from Biden and unpopular policies, (2) cover up the lawbreaking from 2010 to 2024 to minimize the risk of prosecution, (3) try to preserve some policy victories of 2021 to 2024, and (4) suck up to Trump/Republicans to minimize retaliation.
@Kate & exhelodrvr1: This is not early dementia -- Biden has middle phase Parkinson's. The early phase occurred with Biden's poor debate performance in the 2020 primaries and when he campaigned from his basement. He was mostly okay, even though he often read silent instructions from the Teleprompter out loud. Today: Stiff arm movements, small steps, frequent falls, dead plastic face, soft voice, random angry outbursts, trailing off mid sentence, a few short hours of awareness every day, etc.
If his Party and family treated him with respect, he'd be in a locked Memory Care facility having naps and eating ice cream in the garden.
Sally327,
When my father was about my age, he had 100% of his mental faculties. Then, over three or four years, he had a series of TIA, minor strokes and bleeds in his brain. Many more, it turned out, than were diagnosed.
His mental deterioration was rapid during that period, then he stabilized for many years. It also showed in his physical coordination.
I think we are seeing something similar with Biden.
I know there is a lot of belief the Biden's are negotiating their price, but I can't help believe this is about nothing more than Joe's fragile ego. Through all of his years in the senate, he's always been a joke. He was pushed aside for Hillary in 2016. Now he's the President of the United States, and your going to try and tell him what to do! You think he's going to let OBAMA tell him what to do?! It's easy to see how he is simply saying, "TO HELL WITH ALL OF YOU!"
Achilles, "Nobody on that clip looked happy to be there. They all know. Mika and Joe looked like a horse head was put in their bed."
I think Joe and Mika have been told/reminded that they are trivially replaceable.
I don't understand what's happening at the White House. Last I heard yesterday afternoon, Pelosi had persuaded Biden, showing him devastating internal polling, losing badly to Trump. There was also talk of a threat if Biden didn't get out, he would not get funds for his presidential library.
The Covid story matched the story saying Biden would drop out if he got too sick to POTUS.
That is actually pretty standard stuff when it comes to dementia. A person can be understanding of their diminished capacity one day, agreeing to relinquish they keys to the car or to move into assisted living or the like, and the next day have no memory of the previous day's discussions and exhibit belligerence and fear towards anyone suggesting there is a problem. It is one of the things that makes dealing with a loved one in this position so difficult and painful.
Quaestor said...
There's another upside to leaving FJB as the Democrat's flagship model -- he will have no legacy to speak of. The wreckage that November brings will leave none of the major Democrats standing unscathed. Whoever emerges from the depths of the pit of depravity that is the post-Henry Jackson Democratic Party, will have no connection to the leadership that created and sustained the massive fraud committed against the American people in 2020.
It would put a stake in the heart of the geriatric core of the democrat party represented by schumer/pelosi.
That would leave a struggle between Clyburn and AOC. I can't think of any other power centers in the democrat party.
If they lose the insider trading club they lose the banks and corps. It seems like they are losing big tech too.
Seems bad for them.
They still have the wars and gun dealers to fall back on.
"Kate said...
Biden should resign. History would remember him fondly, which is all he wants."
Nope. Whether he resigns or not.
Dave Begley said...
The Dems are very confident that they can steal this election too.
If they do, all hell will break loose. The Dems are willing to risk Civil War in order to keep their grift going.
1. Republicans are vote harvesting this election too. Elon is heading that effort up.
2. I think Zuckerburg is out.
I don't think that will be the play. If Republicans use 180 million dollars to identify marginal/unlikely voters and get out there to collect their ballots then the democrat does not get 20 out of 22 million mail in ballots this time.
I think it is hot war with Russia/Taiwan or bust.
Here's an interesting piece by Martin Gurri:
The End of Joe Biden—and the Democratic Establishment
Don't leave, Joe.
I'm looking forward to your coming humiliation, so deserved after 50+ years of SELFISH "public service."
Tom T. said...
Think about the question legally -- is Biden competent to decide to resign? If not, who has power of attorney over the president?
**********
Then the 25th Amendment would come into play. Kamala and half the Cabinet would have to officially notify the House and Senate leadership that Biden lacks the capacity to perform his duties of his Office.
Yes, it would be self-serving of her, as she would become the Acting President, but that's the way the 25th is set up.
And yes, Biden could declare to Congress that he still has the capacity to perform his duties, then immediately fire his cabinet and install willing hack replacements in an effort to to stymie the workings of the 25th.
But he couldn't fire Kamala, who would again become VP. And to Dr. Jill, and millions of Dem LIVs and feeders at the government trough, a traitor.
It would be fascinating to watch (at least for Republicans), but very dangerous for the country.
Who knows what political and social chaos would result from such a scenario?
Biden's diminished state seemed obvious to me in 2020 - but I compare clips from that election to what we're seeing now and...
Know this, loyal Althouse left: in 2020 you could marginally get away with the argument that some significant portion of 80 million voters weren't voting FOR Biden, they were voting AGAINST Trump. If this election goes the same way - historically incredible vote totals but Biden or whoever has to follow him somehow outscoring Trump, NO ONE is going to believe it.
Biden is toast.
I agree with so many who have noted parallels of the own experience with "old folks" and Biden's rapid decline. I am guessing that Enigma's diagnosis of middle phase Parkinson's is the most accurate at this point. I am becoming convinced that Biden is incapable of taking part in any of the conversations that are going on "with" him. We are seeing the sentient Dem politicians trying their best to rescue the election while those currently calling the shots absolutely will not give up the power they are currently exercising. I think we are right to blame a lot of this on Jill, but I don't think she could withstand the pressure without a supporting cast that is as determined as she. I think that the longer this intra party spat goes on the bigger mess the Chicago convention is going to be. It is obvious that no one with any clout in the party wants Kamala at the head of the ticket, but there is almost no way to keep her off that than to have a bloody fight at the convention from which a lot of people will go away furious. The money guys - except for the truly deluded- are not going to ante up much more for Biden than they already have. They did not get the big bucks by betting on losing horses! I think the people around Biden are treating him cruelly, but they are not the first family to do so to an aging relative. I think things are going to get more entertaining as we get closer to the Chicago convention and I don't think that Biden withdrawing ( should he do so) is going to solve the Dems problems . They got themselves into this corner and the deserve every moment of pain that they suffer.
“Biden should resign. History would remember him fondly, which is all he wants.”
Perhaps hysterical historians like Meacham and Beschloss will feel that way. I’m just an older American with a good memory who remembers the exploits of this east coast Democrat clown. F**king demented clown to be more precise.
What we're seeing in real time doesn't make sense if, as Halperin contends, Biden has made the decision to quit the race on Sunday.
Halperin made it up. They're still trying to push him out and are talking about it like it's a fait accompli.
If he doesn't pull out this weekend, more and more Democrats will call on him to drop out next week. They'd rather avoid a public mess but they'll make one if they have to.
This is mostly coming from the House -- they're terrified of losing their jobs -- and from the Senate too.
This Blogger is a POS. Just sayin’…
She's got that Katie Hobbs look working.
"And yes, Biden could declare to Congress that he still has the capacity to perform his duties, then immediately fire his cabinet and install willing hack replacements in an effort to to stymie the workings of the 25th."
Not how it works.
He is the best person to take on Donald Trump.
The scary thing is, that might actually be true.
Today, 8 more Democrats called on Biden to quit the race.
We're up to 30. More than 10% of the Democrats in the House and Senate.
That's what they are saying in public, because the private discussions have been ignored.
66% of Democrats in polls want him to withdraw.
They just added another one: 31 Democrats in Congress.
It's kind of amazing because Republicans don't have to say anything.
Obama advisor David Axelrod calls the Biden campaign a "defiant delusion."
Rabel said...
"And yes, Biden could declare to Congress that he still has the capacity to perform his duties, then immediately fire his cabinet and install willing hack replacements in an effort to to stymie the workings of the 25th."
Not how it works.
***************
I said "could". Which was a speculation that Biden might attempt to stymie the 25th.
But please tell us why he couldn't. What language in the 25th could stop him from trying if the VEEP and cabinet didn't immediately challenge him again to set up a House and Senate vote to decide the issue?
But why should he resign? If he resigns his career is over. If he loses his career is over.
For the good of the country? You’re pulling my leg.
This might be long, but I want to game out the Democrat National Convention, because you know it is going to be lit.
Let's start by understanding that, with possibly one exception, no Democrat can beat Donald Trump at this point. The entire discussion is about who, at the top of the ballot, can protect as many close down ballot elections to secure at least one part of Congress. If Trump gets a Republican majority in both houses of Congress, it won't be like 2017 again. No. There will be investigations into the last 8 years, and nobody that is in DC today wants those investigations. So, let's look at the options:
1) Biden stays in. I consider this very likely. Taking out Biden destroys Democrat messaging on Trump. Trump is no longer the threat to Democracy. Taking out Biden is Democrats hurling Democracy out of the way for the announced purpose of winning at all cost. Taking out Biden is a gift to Republicans everywhere. Better to take the lumps now, then hand such a gift to the opposition. Yet Biden at the convention... you can hear the boos from the audience now.
2) Biden drops and Kamala takes the Presidency and top of the ticket. This I consider the only other viable option. Kamala will attract women who just want a woman in the White House. Kamala will help Democrats maintain the black vote, where dismissing her for the next option will lose that vote. Kamala maintains the campaign finances retained so far. But I don't see such a move happening before the convention. Who would show up to speak glowingly about Kamala?
3) Biden drops and it is an open convention. I hope this happens. What a shit show that will be. All these celebrities, pundits, and politicos that campaigned for Biden kicking him to the side. Oh, they will give a eulogy for Biden, but they'll need to get on to talking about their favorite new horse. If it is open, then you'll have so much backstabbing, you'll be tired of popcorn. You'll skip Halloween movies for the rest of the year. And who would be the winner? Kamala, why go through an open convention and pick her? Newsom, the guy that just told white suburban women that the government can take your child, mutilate their body, sterilize them, and you can't do a thing? And Newsom over Kamala isn't going to attract the black vote. Everyone else but one would just be worse. Not Hillary again. Buttigieg is failure theater. An open convention would be something to remember and may destroy the Democratic party for some time.
4) Now the exception... Michelle Obama. She has wide appeal among Democrats. She will bring out the women and minority vote. Michelle removes the problem of Kamala, whether she keeps Kamala as VP or not. The Obama name would definitely protect the down ballots, and maybe win a few more that otherwise might get lost. Because she has publicly announced not wanting to run, she can be framed as the next reluctant President like that first male President George Washington. Michelle, "I'll run and be President for the good of my country, but I don't want the job." The only thing that I would enjoy about such a campaign is knowing how it will burn Hillary to see Michelle not wanting to be President and maybe beating Trump when Hillary couldn't.
Whatever happens, I don't see the good will on display at the RNC happening at the DNC.
"What language in the 25th could stop him from trying if the VEEP and cabinet didn't immediately challenge him again to set up a House and Senate vote to decide the issue?"
The way I read the clause beginning with "unless," he doesn't immediately return to power.
"Thereafter, when the President transmits to the President pro tempore of the Senate and the Speaker of the House of Representatives his written declaration that no inability exists, he shall resume the powers and duties of his office unless the Vice President and a majority of either the principal officers of the executive department or of such other body as Congress may by law provide, transmit within four days to the President pro tempore of the Senate and the Speaker of the House of Representatives their written declaration that the President is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office."
The same group that removed him can keep him out of power.
I already did my Bye-kus so he's def out.
Biden is the best equipped Democrat to lose to Trump and suffer the least political damage.
Those around are secretive with their knives until they reach a desperate, critical point. They then they attack with fury and all together.
==========
Murder on the Acela Express
No one knows how to organize and run an open convention anymore. The closest thing to one in the TV era was '72 McGovern (who won the first ballot with 57% and gave his speech at 2:48 am), and we know how that turned out in November. It will have to be as rigged as the primaries to avoid massive embarrassment for the Party.
The vast majority of Congressmen are in safe seats. If many are worried about reelection, their local internal polls must be truly awful. Saving the Party from investigation may be the key.
What the hell is wrong with you people? I mean, you've heard Joe say it time and again. Time and again! Why can't you get that through your thick heads? It's very frustrating.
I think Howard @2:03 is right…
It’s a lose lose for anyone who dares replace Joe at this point. Not sure the cake is not already baked on the down ballot, either.
Again, anyone riding on the Dem policy bus has some splaining to do. Why give Trump the reins to fix things “quickly” without the percentages in Congress to actually make it happen?
From the coverage that I’ve read and listened to it seems like the Trump campaign missed an opportunity to take down any potential Biden replacement. Instead of attacking Biden and Biden policies they should have been making the point that Biden has not been running the executive branch. Instead the Democrat party has been in charge. Therefore, all of the failed policies and problems, both domestic and foreign, will be the same regardless of the Democrat nominee. Maybe that argument was made and I missed it? Or, perhaps that argument will be made if Biden is replaced?
From the coverage that I’ve read and listened to it seems like the Trump campaign missed an opportunity to take down any potential Biden replacement. Instead of attacking Biden and Biden policies they should have been making the point that Biden has not been running the executive branch. Instead the Democrat party has been in charge. Therefore, all of the failed policies and problems, both domestic and foreign, will be the same regardless of the Democrat nominee. Maybe that argument was made and I missed it? Or, perhaps that argument will be made if Biden is replaced?
Howard.
It's going to 20 years to rebuild your beloved Democrat Party. And It won't look anything like it does now.
@Rabel:
Way I see it, the Veep and her cabinet supporters would have to submit a detailed rebuttal to the President's claim he is fit to keep his position. That might take up to four days, during which time the Prez could sack his cabinet to prevent them from doing so.
If he did , who exactly would be in a legal position to stop him? I suppose Congress could impeach him for attempting an unconstitutional end run around the 25th, but that would be a doozy of a situation.
Fact is, executing the 25th's provisions would be brand new territory.
MYself, I hope President Applesauce tries to hang on.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6lZSwZPnCHY
"Dr" Jill is not leaving.
Je is a dementia patient who's only being allowed to see information that supports what he wants to believe (he's the only man who can beat Trump), and what his handlers want him to believe (because their power goes away the second he does).
He's not dropping out
"Way I see it, the Veep and her cabinet supporters would have to submit a detailed rebuttal to the President's claim he is fit to keep his position. That might take up to four days, during which time the Prez could sack his cabinet to prevent them from doing so."
I only see a need for a statement that in their opinion the removed President is still not fit for duty. And, he does not have Presidential authority during those 4 days so, no sacking.
I have to figure that Congress anticipated your scenario and disallowed when it wrote in the Amendment.
What he could right now is fire those Cabinet Secretaries he suspects are plotting against him.
That would be fun. Probably draw an impeachment, but entertaining nonetheless.
The number is up to 35 Dems.
It was 22 yesterday.
It's escalating going into the weekend.
Rabel .. IANAL but I think that's the way it's intended to work as well.
Et Tu, Nancy?
Saint Croix
It takes 2/3 of the House and Senate to sustain a 25th Amendment challenge to Presidential fitness. In other words with half of each chamber held by Republicans Democrats would need to be nearly unanimous in wanting Biden out before the pressure on him is significant. Both the CBC and the Hispanic caucus have voted to continue supporting Biden as the nominee.
Is he in? Is he out? We need a weekend White House Chimney Watch... white smoke or Black Smoke?
A further support to Rabel's analysis is that the first sentence in Section 4 states the VP *immediately* becomes Acting President upon transmission of communication to Congress but the quoted section says the President *shall resume* the Office *unless* a further objection is registered within four days. So he's out for at least four days.
I know the 25th has no part in the nomination but it's a good proxy for comparison.
Leland .. good points but I wonder if Barack would actually push Michelle into the race. I'm in the camp that she wouldn't do it for love nor money. I'm also factoring in a loss to Trump (she shouldn't be considered a shoo-in at this point) would mean that two of Obama's high profile picks (Hillary and Biden or Michelle) have lost to Trump. I don't disagree that Obama might want it to look like he dislodged Biden if he goes but I'm not so sure he'd want to chance another L on his record.
Howard said...
Biden is the best equipped Democrat to lose to Trump and suffer the least political damage.
7/19/24, 2:03 PM
But you still have a bunch of sub 90 IQ people who you have to pretend you are trying for.
Too many people called for Biden to drop out. They cannot go forward. Milk spilled.
Kamala and some scrub will take the L.
Sounds very plausible, Achilles. Kamala's payoff is to be the first president who identifies as a woman for about 10 minutes. Then she becomes immortalized forever.
DEI/AA selected and immortalized for her skin color and sex? Such an honor.
I guess it's better than being remembered for being willing to service Willie Brown in order to get ahead. People will probably forget that part, though. Right?
Mika and Joe looked like a horse head was put in their bed.
Hah! Good stuff, Achilles.
ChristopherB: Good point about 2/3rds of both the House and Senate being necessary under the 25th Amendment. Another point is to look at tha calendar. Those representatives and senators want to be out campaigning now. They don't want to be tied up in a shit show in DC. Additionally, who amongst the Democrats wants to start that type of drama, now of all times?
I think the 25th Amendment is out like impeachment - the timing isn't right, if Biden doesn't voluntarily leave (another shit show) then he's in for the long haul to November.
How long does Jill...I mean Joe..have to hold on for?
Like, what's the point of no return if he hasn't taken himself out?
Is it based on filing dates that states require?
Time favors Joe. Ironically.
— Biden campaign chair @jomalleydillon says Biden is not exiting the presidential race pic.twitter.com/zElSb3fG4X— Morning Joe (@Morning_Joe) July 19, 2024
Actually I want to amend my description.
That was a hostage video.
They were all doing what they were told so they could get their family member back.
"Her blinks were way too long and she is exerting way too much control over her tone and her face."
Exactly what I thought. Anytime I hear White House staff talk I hear that line from Blazing Saddles:
"We've gotta protect our phony baloney jobs!"
@Rabel: Here's an analysis of how the 25th amendment is supposed to work.
https://constitutioncenter.org/blog/how-the-constitutions-25th-amendment-works
One of the 25th's authors specifically addressed the competency issue:
Another 25th Amendment author, Rep. Richard Poff, identified two examples in April 1965 where Section 4 could be invoked. “One is the case where the President by reason of some physical ailment or sudden accident is unconscious or paralyzed and therefore unable to make or to communicate the decision to relinquish the powers of his Office.
"Regardless of the reason to invoke the 25th Amendment, Congress set a high bar to allow its use. Once the vice president and either the Cabinet or a body approved by Congress agree to invoke the amendment, the vice president is allowed immediately to “assume the powers and duties of the office as Acting President.” The president can notify Congress that “no inability exists” and he “shall resume the powers and duties of his office” unless the vice president and the Cabinet or body formed by Congress jointly object."
"If not in session, Congress is required to convene within 48 hours once the 25th Amendment is invoked. When in session, Congress has 21 days to settle the question if the president notifies Congress in writing that no inability exists. The vice president and the Cabinet or disability body have four days to file an objection to the president’s declaration within that 21-day time frame. If no objection is filed, the president resumes his duties. If the president’s declaration is contested, two-thirds of the House and Senate must agree to allow the vice president to act as president until the president is considered able to serve, and the president can file another declaration about his ability to serve after Congress votes on the question."
So...I concede Rabel's contention on this point. Legally, Biden could not act as POTUS during those 4 days. . But it's not true that Congress has to get involved; if the Pres makes a good case that he's not (or no longer is) incapacitated, and the Veep et al agree, he goes back to being the Top Dog. [then fall on their own swords]
And---none of this has never happened before, so many things are possible. Just consider Lincoln suspending the Writ. Or how Nixon staged the Saturday Night Massacre to try to forestall Special Counsel investigations regarding his involvement of the Watergate burglary. Or Alexander Haig (Reagan's SecState) claiming "I am in control here" when Reagan was incapacitated by that stupid shooter with a hard-on for lesbian Jodie Foster.
So, Biden might see the party lineup in the Congress as being just slightly against him, do something desperate, and defiantly challenge it: "Try and stop me!"
As for, "I have to figure that Congress anticipated your scenario and disallowed when it wrote in the Amendment."
HAH! Let's talk about the continual disputes regarding the 1st, 2nd, and 14th Amendments--just for starters.
I hope you all enjoyed this back-and-forth.
I sure did.
Good god look at her eyes! What is about leftists and the necessity of being permanently baked.
Q: How much meth was consumed for this interview?
A: All of it!
Democrats would need to be nearly unanimous in wanting Biden out before the pressure on him is significant.
Christopher,
Are you assuming that the Republicans are on Biden's side?
My assumption is that all the Republicans are opposed to Biden.
So opposition to Biden from his own party is very important.
You say Biden is fine unless the entire Democrat party wants him out?
I say the tipping point is way sooner than that.
50% of Congress is already opposed to Biden's candidacy (i.e. Republicans)
So if 16% of opposition to Biden's candidacy comes from Democrats, that's a big problem for him.
He's already at 13% opposition from Democrats, in public. (And a lot more in private).
I don't think the 25th Amendment will be put into play unless he starts raving like a madman. But as the numbers of Democrats calling on him to withdraw escalate, his candidacy becomes more and more impossible.
Saint Croix said...
I don't think the 25th Amendment will be put into play unless he starts raving like a madman. But as the numbers of Democrats calling on him to withdraw escalate, his candidacy becomes more and more impossible.
Reality check:
1: Unless the DNC changes the rules, no one can push Joe out, other than "Dr" Jill. And she won't
2: No one in the Democrat Party cares what Democrat voters want. if they did, there would have been a primary over the last year, and the Dems wouldn't be caught in this problem
3:Kamala Harris is a lazy, brainless, and entitled twit who can't be winningly pushed out of the way. If the Dems junk Joe for her, they will also have to go the 25th Amendment route. The GOP controlled House will force them all to come down and testify about why Biden has to be bumped, when this first started, and why none of them spoke up months ago. It will be a complete and utter shitshow for the Dems. If they're sane they don't want that.
4: At this point, the chance of any Dem winning (as opposed to doing well enough to keep it from being a landslide) is somewhere between slim and none. Whoever takes on the role of "loser to Trump" won't get another shot at the Dem nomination. So no one with a better chance than Kamala will go after it if Joe pulls out
5: If the Dems try to NOT go the 25th Amendment route after booting Joe from eh ticket, teh Trump team has made it clear they will pound on the Dems for it. "How can Joe be trusted with the nuclear codes, if he can't be trusted to run for office?"
Since Joe's in a hole because he's obviously demented, that's not a fight the Dems can afford to have
So, I was wrong
Joe's Twitter account has posted a message that he's out https://x.com/JoeBiden/status/1815080881981190320
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