"In his speech, Biden indicated that Israel had now acceded to this previously rejected stipulation. 'Some remains of hostages who have been killed will be returned to their...families,' he said, 'bringing some degree of closure to their terrible grief.'..."
Writes Yair Rosenberg, in "Biden’s Bold Gaza Cease-Fire Gambit/The president has pushed events as far as he can, but even American presidents have their limits" (The Atlantic).
Writes Yair Rosenberg, in "Biden’s Bold Gaza Cease-Fire Gambit/The president has pushed events as far as he can, but even American presidents have their limits" (The Atlantic).
“This new proposal has three phases,” the president said. “The first phase would last for six weeks. Here’s what it would include: a full and complete cease-fire, a withdrawal of Israeli forces from all populated areas of Gaza, the release of a number of hostages—including women, the elderly, the wounded—in exchange for the release of hundreds of Palestinian prisoners.”...
[C]ontrary to some mistaken reporting, Hamas has rejected every Israeli offer to date—and the terrorist group has good reason to think that this strategy is working in its favor.... Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu also has reason to torpedo this proposal—even though he probably authorized it....
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108 comments:
Why should Israel back off before Hamas is utterly destroyed?
"Why should Israel back off before Hamas is utterly destroyed?"
While I don't really believe Hamas can be destroyed in a real sense- it will just be reborn in a year or two as long as there are Palestinians in Gaza- the simple fact is that Biden's handlers don't want them destroyed.
Israel, going forward, needs to be prepared to not have to count on the U.S. for military or economic support. Doing so ties their hands in ways that will eventually get them all killed.
And I bet all the hostages turned over will be, in fact, dead.
What happens when rockets are fired from Gaza into Israel in this deal?
Unconditional surrender.
Hamas are animals. I am deeply ashamed that we have Americans who support their depravity. They are the same people, I believe, who support the Stalinist persecution of Trump.
“This new proposal has three phases,”
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If what I just read was phase I then it should be an instant rejection. There is nothing at all in that proposal that benefits Israel. Zero.
In alignment with previous agreements, an exchange of 10 dead Hamas prisoners for every dead hostage.
theres a precious few like noa argamani probably, there's a little russian boy as well
last time shalit earned them 1500 of their ansars, fighters,
there cannot be a hudna this time, never again,
Reprising Bill Richardson's role, Congresswoman D Rashida Talib should go visit/work with Hamas. Maybe Congressman Jamie Raskin could give her cover by doing the same with Israel.
there AREN'T any more living hostages.. Biden's troops have raped and killed them ALL
Serious Questions:
WHY is the US supporting rapists and murderers with lawyers guns and money?
Of the $BILLION we spent on the "floating supply dock", how much of the supplies went to Hamas?
Now that Hamas' $BILLION floating supply dock has sunk (or drifted off).. How much will the new one cost?
Since Israel started their "genocide", How much has the population of Palestine increased?
Finally, in the history of The World; has there EVER Been a less successful "genocide"?
I don’t want any ceasefire until Hamas is dead, along with all of its supporters in Gaza. I’m tired of our tax dollars supporting this s-storm. And for sure I don’t want the US rebuilding Gaza.
The war can end today. Hammas must surrender or be destroyed. All live hostages must be released (if any) and remains of the rest returned immediately. Israel simply isn't going to permit Hammas to be present in Gaza anymore. Its shameful that Biden is advocating for Hammas after their barbarous attack on 10/7. Events like the 10/7 attack are totally unacceptable by civilized people. The UN has beclowned itself in this case.
The hard truth is that Islamic Palestinians could have had their own homeland at any time since 1948. All they had to do was stop killing Jews.
Just when you think Hamas reaches rock bottom, they start digging again. And then, you realize they're digging to recover dead hostages, so they can make a better deal.
well its obscene to even entertain the notion this is genocide, no Israel hasn't even done what our settlers did to the American indians, from sea
there was shatila, but that was a blood match with the maronites,
The United States and its NATO allies couldn't destroy the Taliban in Afghanistan after 20 years, with what would seem to have been more favorable circumstances than faces Israel in its efforts to eradicate Hamas.
Biden needs the insane leftist Jew-hate campus vote. Plus those upper mid-west bastions of Islamic supremacist squad voters.
More bafflegab from the bozo.
The United States and its NATO allies couldn't destroy the Taliban in Afghanistan after 20 years, with what would seem to have been more favorable circumstances than faces Israel in its efforts to eradicate Hamas.
The opposite, actually. The Taliban spent 20 years hiding in Pakistan, where it was could train new fighters and were it received support from elements of the Pakistani government. Israel has Gaza locked down and Hamas has few supporters in the region. They may not kill every Hamas member, but they can destroy the organization and make it difficult to reconstitute for decades.
thank you dr zaius,
yes sound and fury, signifying nothing told by an idiot,
now Yair is not the most clueless at the Atlantic, thats a tough crowd
Biden, having shown a startling incompetence in running US foreign policy, extends his services to Israel.
Joe'll fix it!*
*with apologies to the late Sir Jimmy (Jim'll Fix It) Savile.
Releasing the Palestinian prisoners is not a problem, they will be killed later when they attack the idf after hamas starts shooting rockets again, they cant resist shooting rockets. If hamas breaks the ceasefire i assume all bets are off.
I think that finding and plugging the tunnels to egypt where all the arms were coming in was a big deal. Perhaps israel is more confident that weapons will be limited.
many of the prisoners released in the shalit exchange include the top operational commanders like sinwar, so thats a no go, just like many gitmo detainees filled executive slots in the taliban islamic state, aqap et al,
More bafflegab from the bozo.
Biden's handlers released this plan right as the Jewish Sabbath was beginning, knowing that Israel's ability to respond would be constrained. The Israelis still got a statement out basically denying that they'd agreed to this plan.
ear leader almost makes it sound logical,
but there is so much tripe in those paragraphs,
Jeroner, my client never claimed that the hostages he was contractually obligated to release were going to be alive. A dead one is equivalent to a live one in this transaction and the court should take no notice if the hostage is dead due to being in captivity.
Including dead hostages in the count!?
Gee, way to give Hamas an out regarding any living hostages who might know embarrassing into about Hamas.
This is literally the stupidest suggestion I've heard during this entire war.
The only deal Israel should accept is one where all Hamas members are dead or imprisoned in Israel.
If Israel will take dead hostages, why should Hamas turn over any alive?
I have read that Joe Biden has been on the wrong side of every foreign policy issue since he entered the Senate, which certainly seems plausible. This proposal does not change that record.
Since the election of Barack Obama we have turned into an antisemitic nation, and this has accelerated greatly under Biden. I’m not Jewish, but I’m not happy, either
Israel may have a different definition of success than we think they do. See:
https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/israel-middle-east/articles/israel-succeeding-gaza
This has been going on a long, long time. In the past, there wouldn't be Palestinian left, everything they built razed, and the problem of an enemy solved for a long time. After what Hamas did, I wouldn't be surprised if that's on Israel's mind.
This is how we should do it: old school style (Surrender of Fort Donelson)
Sir: Yours of this date proposing Armistice, and appointment of Commissioners, to settle terms of Capitulation is just received. No terms except unconditional and immediate surrender can be accepted.
I propose to move immediately upon your works.
I am Sir: very respectfully
Yours
U.S. Grant
Brig. Gen
As best I can tell, Biden made up this "agreement" out of whole cloth.
Fuck Josef Biden.
Once upon a time, the agreements bore some relationship to events on the field.
One would guess from the terms of this “ceasefire”—Israel releases hundreds of violent criminals in exchange for a box of body parts while giving Hamas time and space to plan more atrocities—that Hamas was wiping the floor with Israel and Israel was reduced to suing for peace.
For the sake of a world free of terrorism, I hope they say no and the IDF keeps pushing.
Social justice garnered through profitable parts... murder, rape, rape-rape, and torture-torture are no ethical vice. Here's to another century of Hamas, [national] socialists et al effort to relieve their Jewish... uh, Zionist, "burden" from the river to the sea.
This deal isn't great for Israel, but there's a reason that NATO countries are so enthusiastic for it. I don't think it will be long before Macron finds himself voting for censuring Israel at the UN simply to keep Muslim support in France and Africa. And David Cameron simply isn't going to matter for more than two more months.
Does Israel think the situation will be better in two months? I'd bet against that action.
Big Mike: "I have read that Joe Biden has been on the wrong side of every foreign policy issue since he entered the Senate, which certainly seems plausible. This proposal does not change that record."
I disagree. Joe Biden has been on the "correct" side, from his perspective, of every foreign policy issue since he entered the Senate...its just that he is on the other OTHER side.
Clinton, Obambi, biden, the deep state, Foggy Bottom, EU, etc have very different goals and measures of "success" than the typical American or European citizen...whom these "elites" despise.
doctrev: "Does Israel think the situation will be better in two months? I'd bet against that action."
I view this announcement by biden to be total BS and made up...but clearly part of the now multi-decade effort by the globalist team to run Netanyahu out of power. Particularly since Netanyahu's slim power majority has actually recovered and stabilized over the last month or so since Oct 7.
There is no way Netanyahu can be seen to agree with this pro-Hamas idiocy and survive politically because his current policy is the only reason he is still there.
My peace plan. Kill and capture all Hamas terrorist. Round up all kill-the-Jews teachers and send them to Qatar. De-Nazify the Gazan government; all go to Qatar. De-Iman all the Jew-haters (99.999% of the Imans). All expense airfare to Qatar.
Biden is pushing his peace plan because that's what his Iranian paymasters want.
Blogger ~ Gordon Pasha said...
This is how we should do it: old school style (Surrender of Fort Donelson)
Sir: Yours of this date proposing Armistice, and appointment of Commissioners, to settle terms of Capitulation is just received. No terms except unconditional and immediate surrender can be accepted.
I propose to move immediately upon your works.
I am Sir: very respectfully
Yours
U.S. Grant
Brig. Gen
6/1/24, 11:50 AM
Ulysses Simpson Grant has superb way with words.
Here’s the situation.
China knows all about the Biden family corruption because they were on the other side of the deal. Smart.
Iran is China’s buddy in the Middle East. So they leak what they have to Iran. Iran has Biden by the short hairs.
Everything else follows.
The new name of the Biden wing of the DNC----> "Hamas Democrats."
I don't think it will be long before Macron finds himself voting for censuring Israel at the UN simply to keep Muslim support in France and Africa.
Anything Macron does to make Muslims happy in France will only accelerate Muslim dominance in France. Stupide!
WTF negotiations has the condition, “sure you can give us back the hostages dead.”? Who are the clowns negotiating for this? Either they are hostages or they are dead bodies. You give me back the remains of my loved one, and I’ll leave you the remains of yours. You want to live and you want concessions from me by holding hostages, then they need to be alive. Otherwise no concessions.
1. "In his speech, Biden indicated that Israel had now acceded to this previously rejected stipulation."
2. "Israel’s conditions for ending the war have not changed: The destruction of Hamas military and governing capabilities, the freeing of all hostages and ensuring that Gaza no longer poses a threat to Israel," Netanyahu said.
Israel has a very small army and cannot keep it operating at war for years.
This means eventually they will agree to a cease fire.
Yeah, Genocide Joe has done all he can.
Yep.
He doesn't leverage over Israel. He's FORCED to veto UN resolutions, break international law, attack the international court that found Bibi to be a warcriminal, not criticize Israel in public, and above he's FORCED to send Israel Billions in bombs and weapons to kill brown people in Gaza.
Poor Genocide Joe. He can't do nuthin' to Bibi. Cant put ANY pressure on him. Its so sad.
all of a sudden you care about international law and un resolutions, the people who had condolences for the butcher raisi,
I am a terrible person and will burn in hell.
When I saw this my mind immediately went to Monty Python and the dead parrot sketch
"Here are the hostages that we promised."
"but Muhammad, these hostages are dead!"
"no they are not dead they are merely sleeping"
"no these are dead hostages."
"no. Merely pining for the fjords"
You don't need to tell me how horrible I am. I already know. I just hope you didn't smile, even a little bit.
John Henry
Trying to help out with the negotiations here.
Perhaps dead hostages should trade at a discount, with long-dead hostages each fetching the release of ten imprisoned terrorists but with the freshly killed fetching only five.
Drago said...
There is no way Netanyahu can be seen to agree with this pro-Hamas idiocy and survive politically because his current policy is the only reason he is still there.
6/1/24, 12:28 PM
Mmhmm. Benny Gallant and Yair Lapid are already putting knives in his back. If elections are called, I wouldn't be surprised to see the EU, or perhaps the Biden regime, put light sanctions on Israel as a warning. It's pressure that will work, because Israel has to ride out six more months of Biden.
Maybe Bloomberg and Zuckerberg won't support the regime this time. Oh well.
First and foremost Israel must eliminate Hamas and its supporters in Gaza. Then strike down all Hamas and Hezbola leaders in Iran. Then maybe talk a cease fire,
The warmongering left will be the end of us.
Sounds like Biden or his handlers are lying once again.
Money Manger said...
In alignment with previous agreements, an exchange of 10 dead Hamas prisoners for every dead hostage.
Return all of them but implant radio transmitters in them.
Then a week or so later drop a 500 pound bomb on their current location.
Israel has already rejected this 'proposal', which it should. This is a ridiculous proposal from an incompetent President and his disastrous foreign policy team. The world is in chaos because of this team's "vision".
Just so I understand: Hamas will return some living Israelis (who have been tortured, raped, and brutalized), plus some Israeli body parts- to be identified. In return Israel will completely leave and on top of that, release hundreds more Hamas 'soldiers' currently sitting in Israeli prisons so that they can return to Gaza as heroes ready to lead the next assault.
Joe Biden must really hate Jews.
So...are there any breathing adults who see this as a good step? If so, you have zero knowledge of the history of Hamas.
Looks as though Bibi told Dementia Joe to pound sand. Good.
“You don’t negotiate with animals.” -Clint Eastwood
Trust Joe Biden to find a brilliant way to ensure that any remaining hostages are killed.
gilbar writes, "Of the $BILLION we spent on the "floating supply dock", how much of the supplies went to Hamas?"
All of it is the intelligent guess. Granted Biden isn't intelligent so one could argue that the Resident was deceived into supplying Hamas. There are, however, complications, specifically 18 U.S. Code § 2339B. This statute makes it illegal to provide material support to designated terrorist organizations. This includes providing support to foreign terrorist organizations designated by the Secretary of State, as well as to designated organizations within the United States or anywhere else for people subject to U.S. jurisdiction. Hamas is a terrorist organization under that definition, consequently, Biden may be liable to criminal prosecution. Perhaps he's immune by his POTUS status, but afterward? There's no limitation mentioned in the language. The law does not include medicine as material support but makes no mention of food. Even monsters need to eat. And the pier itself, who used it?
Back to the silly man in the White House. He can't rely on his stupidity to escape the law. The precedent has long since been set. Genius or dolt, if you're in command, you are legally responsible.
"I just hope you didn't smile, even a little bit."
Granted. Your comment was greeted with the deadest of deadpan expressions on my part. But feel not slighted, oh humorless one. Even the original dead parrot sketch is DOA without the talents of Cleese and Palin.
Israel should accept the proposal. Once the hostages have been exchanged and Hamas and the “innocent civilians” are back in Gaza, nuke it. Israel gets peace and the Palestinians get martyrs’ Paradise. Win-win. (Use neutron bombs, though. Gaza has some nice beaches and it would be a shame to ruin them.)
is not FJB = USA carte blanche license to kill any and all hostages?
these are the game-theoretic brains running your foreing policy state department?
Prior negotiations ran aground after Hamas insisted that it be able to include dead hostages, as opposed to just living ones, in the number required by the agreement’s first phase.
From the same article...
[C]ontrary to some mistaken reporting, Hamas has rejected every Israeli offer to date—and the terrorist group has good reason to think that this strategy is working in its favor.
That sentence flatly contradicts the first.
Does Hamas want peace or not? What will Hamas give up for permanent peace? Why isn't Biden pressuring Hamas to sacrifice for peace?
no hamas wants a hudna to restock resupply, and regroup their forces, as they did between 2014 and 2021, and 2021 and now,
Now that the "President" has spoken, when can we expect Jake Sullivan or, God help us, Karine Jean-Pierre to emerge and explain the actual policy of the "Biden" administration?
This administration is a shocking combination of evil and incompetence.
I still think that unconditional surrender of Hamas and all supporters of Hamas, with immediate war crime trials and punishments including the death penalty, under IDF military control, would be the optimum end to this conflict. And if the IDF knows where the leaders of Hamas are in Qatar, why is that building still standing with them in it?
even American presidents have their limits
Especially this one.
Trust Joe Biden to find a brilliant way to ensure that any remaining hostages are killed.
=================
is that not lesson in power D's and FJB and USA want people to learn domestic and foreign!
Lance said...
"Does Hamas want peace or not?"
No; Hamas just wants a ceasefire.
"What will Hamas give up for permanent peace?"
The life of every Jew from the river to the sea. (If you doubt, read their charter.)
"Why isn't Biden pressuring Hamas to sacrifice for peace?"
Michigan (and Harvard, and Columbia, and Berkeley, and...)
ocrev: "Mmhmm. Benny Gallant and Yair Lapid are already putting knives in his back."
No doubt...and no doubt with direct US encouragement.
Rocco said...
"Why isn't Biden pressuring Hamas to sacrifice for peace?"
Michigan (and Harvard, and Columbia, and Berkeley, and...)
6/1/24, 4:02 PM
There aren't a lot of people still calling for Putin to face the ICC but not Netanyahu. Nonetheless, "international law" remains a major conceit to the left. Partly because so many of them are employed by the globalist system, of course, but mostly because a collapse of the UN would erode much of their self-appointed legitimacy. The ICC has more or less been ridiculed throughout the world for not arresting Netanyahu: Biden can't afford the UN going the same way if he wants to keep any of his internationalist supporters.
I can't imagine a lot swaying France and the Starmer UK back to Israel's side short of another October 7th: but then another one of those might end the Israeli state completely. It's a hard situation.
Drago said...
No doubt...and no doubt with direct US encouragement.
6/1/24, 4:12 PM
You can copy and paste my name, man. It's right there. Ironically, Netanyahu asking to address a joint session of Congress makes it more important for Biden to sideline him well before then. Missed UNSC votes, delayed arms shipments, possible support for UN sanctions or even supporting a non-American humanitarian force in Gaza. That's a sampler of the minor actions Biden can take to make Israel's situation much worse.
Here's something that warrants a criminal criminal prosecution of Biden: his aiding and abetting of war crimes by Israel in its ghastly fire-bombing of refugee evacuation camps claimed by Israel to be "safe spaces."
"Sounds like Biden or his handlers are lying once again."
It would be easier to keep track of when they're not lying. I'm sure that eventually, there's got to be a first time.
TR foreign policy (actually John Hays)
Perdicaris alive or the Raisuli dead.”
Brief, simple, one sentence.
Is RC OCEAN II (1:09pm) a liar or a fool? The ICC has not "found Bibi to be a warcriminal", they have issued a warrant for his arrest. He hasn't even been arrested, much less indicted, much much less convicted of any such crime.
"Sentence first – verdict afterward" is only permitted if you're the Red Queen in Alice in Wonderland.
Thanks Comrade Cook.
I can always count on your ridiculous sense of moral and intellectual of superiority.
All of America's enemies are your friends and our friends are your enemies.
TickTock said...
Trust Joe Biden to find a brilliant way to ensure that any remaining hostages are killed.
He is also absolutely determined to see Israel lose just like he wants the US to lose every war he starts.
We see two nations and their leaders. One nation is Israel, a small country (9 1/2 million population), the other is the US, a large country (336 million population). Israel has been under repeated attack for it's entire existence. Israel relies on a fairly small professional military plus what we Americans used to call the "militia": 170,000 active duty personnel and 465,000 reservists. The US active-duty military totals about 1.1 million.
We see two national leaders. One is Netanyahu, the other is Biden. Suppose circumstances were different. Suppose the US was under threat of annihilation by a powerful enemy, and Israel was sitting fat and pretty. Who would you want leading the US?
Biden's "Bold" Proposal. When Biden runs his mouth pretty much no one listens--so how is the big talk from a buffoon bold? Only among the progressives who think words are the equivalent of acts.
"Ocrev" would be a pretty awesome handle.
ah counterpunch are they still around rhetorical,
Here's a thought. We will count dead hostages as returning hostages, and Israel will keep killing Hamas and call it a ceasefire. Everyone is happy!
Annexation is the only permanent solution.
There's a reason Königsberg is called Kaliningrad these days.
Here are some pros: Presuming Hamas returns some living hostages, those living hostages will see an end to their nightmare. If you do a poll among living, returned hostages, I'm sure the overwhelming majority would be in favor of the plan. If Hamas returns a lot of dead bodies and just a few hostages, their propaganda war will suffer a defeat.....Carthage must be destroyed is a winning tactic, but it's not a tactic that's available to Israel. Carthage was devastated. Perhaps that's good enough. I don't think anyone in Gaza will consider this a victory despite what Hamas says.....Hamas is a hideous organization. They brought this devastation to their land. I think there must be some people in Gaza who understand this. Or maybe not.....At the end of WWI, the Germans were up for a rematch, but not so much after the end of WWII. I hope this is their Dresden, but who knows.
@ William: " If Hamas returns a lot of dead bodies and just a few hostages, their propaganda war will suffer a defeat."
On what planet?
Hamas will always be the oppressed minority, and the hostages, dead ones included, will always be settler-colonialist, white-supremacist oppressors who had it coming.
Hamas delenda est
Beiden is the little creep that could not lick the boots of Eisenhower, Marshal, and Truman. Beiden is a gutless worm. Beiden wants the US to lose, like his puppet master.
I'll trade you 2000 dead HAMAS for every dead hostage... and the longer the negotiations the more dead HAMAS we will bring to the table per hostage.
And that is the deal.
Just watching SNL tonight with an Arab American host calling for a Free Palestine to thunderous applause. The host also supported the idea of a trans woman president. Then a Newlyweds Show sort of skit with a husband announcing his desire to have sex with a man. This is what leads to a civilization being overtaken by savagery.
These people are Biden voters and they support his policies.
"Anything Macron does to make Muslims happy in France will only accelerate Muslim dominance in France. Stupide!"
It's called "democracy". It's like, super-precious. Super-duper!
"The only 'good Indians" I ever saw were dead."
General Phil Sheridan
While we certainly didn't get every NAZI and there were some Bushido fanatics that remained and maybe some still exist, the application of force, with plenty of collateral damage, made them cease to function.
Corpse = hostage.
New math.
narciso said...
"ah counterpunch are they still around rhetorical,"
It's Comrade Cooks pornography of choice. They may still be publishing just for him.
Man the Barracades! Nomenklatura Unite!
There are no living hostages, none. Obliterate hamass, obliterate them. Make the land palestinian free from the river to the sea. Then do the same to hezbollah. Slaughter them all. They've earned and deserve it. The Iranian mullahs deserve the same. Fascist pigs all.
Rusty said...
[narciso said...
"ah counterpunch are they still around rhetorical,"]
"It's Comrade Cooks pornography of choice. They may still be publishing just for him.
Man the Barracades! Nomenklatura Unite!"
R. Cook isn't among the nomenclatura. He's an apparatchik.
“…include dead hostages”
I can’t believe that this is a point of discussion or a thing, to even write about, as some form of run of the mill normal negotiation. These are murderous terrorists with zero legitimacy to exist in the world.
I should be more appalled at the "contributors" here who are happy to cheer on intentional war crimes and mass executions by an allied state of the US, (aided and abetted by us), but, more dismaying, I'm not even surprised.
One true thing can be said of Joe Biden's limits -- none of them are beneath him.
Robert Cook said...
"I should be more appalled at the "contributors" here who are happy to cheer on intentional war crimes and mass executions by an allied state of the US, (aided and abetted by us), but, more dismaying, I'm not even surprised."
Name them.
Now name the intentional war crimes of Hamas.
Now name the intentional war crimes of your lord and savior FDR.
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