Key quotes:
Lindsey Graham: "Give me a break — I mean, it’s Trump. All I can say is while Trump was president nobody invaded anybody. I think the point here is to, in his way, to get people to pay."
Marco Rubio: "He told the story about how he used leverage to get people to step up to the plate and become more active in NATO... I have zero concern, because he’s been president before. I know exactly what he has done and will do with the NATO alliance. But there has to be an alliance. It’s not America’s defense with a bunch of small junior partners."
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72 comments:
All I can say is while Trump was president nobody invaded anybody
I recall telling a Biden supporter in 2016 that this was my chief compliment for Trump: a reduction in war. I told him the same thing would not continue under Biden.
Trump's sloppiness in language has always been a huge problem for Donald. He's not a lawyer.
But I'm still mad at him for falling into the January 6 trap.
Once critical? A long time ago in a galaxy far, far away …
And here's where the anti-Trump gaslighting ends? After the endless fraud that was the Mueller investigation, two failed impeachments, and throwing $#!+ against the wall to see what sticks, nothing sticks?
Don't cry wolf when there is no wolf, for people will stop listening.
Ignore Chicken Little, as rain does not mean the sky is falling.
Next thing you know the Democrats will propose putting a giant golden statue of Trump on the National Mall. Our very own happy Buddha.
"I have zero concern, because he’s been president before. I know exactly what he has done"
Why I'm not worried if Trump wins again, whether he's my favorite or not. I'm fine with the rest of that quote from Rubio as it pertains to NATO.
We don't have a choice but to skip past Trump's poor way of speaking.
these folks are right.
Trump is all poor speaking and bravado - BUT Trump DID THE RIGHT THING.
Trump is a million times better than Crook Lying Liar who Lies - Open Border - war war war and more war - inflation and job-killing dept + screw Americans because the illegals take president over all Americans - Joe F*ing Crook a-hole Biden.
Why shouldn't Western European countries "pay their fair share"? Isn't that a favorite Democrat mantra?
I'm glad Trump had the guts to tell the arrogant Europeans to finally pay up.
Western Europe whines about paying for their own defense, just like Wisconsin public school teachers whined about putting up some cash for their health insurance and retirement. Same smarmy, liberal, entitled attitude.
Same as students complaining about paying off loans. I feel bad for the students. They are preyed upon. But European Defense....nope.
The French have money flowing in from exploiting African labor and gold mines. They can't put up some of those funds for their own national defense?
The German economy is now shit because of their fake global warming efforts. Too bad.
'Trump is having an impact': NATO head credits president's tough talk for $100B boost
Had the Europeans been paying their share all along, they would not be out of weapons to send to Kiev right now, would they?
The idea that Trump actually supports Russia invading France or, even if he did (he doesn't), that Putin would do it based on the premise, is ridiculous.
OTOH, what was it again that Biden said at the beginning of his Presidency about being ok with a limited Russian invasion of Ukraine? He said something, but I don't remember exactly what.
That said (see above), I do wish Trump would rein it in some. Telling France they have to fund their own defense is warranted. He didn't have to tack on the nonsense at the end. It turns a lot of voters off. Voters he needs.
As usual Trump's statements--sensible enough in context, and meant to encourage dead beats to pay their fair share are amplified and transmogrified into something they were not.
As for "paying their fair share"--how many times have I heard a Democrat politician use that phrase. It's almost as popular as "protecting our Democracy" i.e. keeping the Democrat party in perpetual power.
I have zero concern, because he’s been president before
The Trump Is A Crazy War Monger trope isn't really going to fly this time is it? Even Marco Rubio gets it.
Finally!
Most of the fourth estate has the vapors. Now let’s seem them start attacking Republicans in general while coddling Joe.
The deliberate misrepresentation of Trump's comments is no surprise, neither is the brazenness.
He said if Russia attacked a NATO member who wasn't adhering to the terms of the alliance, he wouldn't either. The obvious corollary to this is he would if the attacked member were adhering to the terms of the alliance. Nowhere did he say Russia should attack them. He said his response would be to tell Russia do whatever to these alleged friends that don't hold up their hand.
You can see in the responding remarks of Donald Tusk - no friend politically to Donald Trump - that Europe must be able to effectively contribute to its own defense. He, at least, understood what Trump meant. Trump wants all European members of NATO to spend on defense what they agreed to spend. If that happens, there's no problem whatsoever.
Oh, you should see what's going on over at Twitter. Trump's urging Russia to attack NATO! Trump wants to give the US to Putin! "During a rally this week, Donald Trump said he would gladly support Putin in a war against NATO."
I swear, the gaslighting is generating so much CO over there it's amazing anyone can take a breath...
Context is important, and is being rejected for momentary talking points against Trump. But with the internet, anyone who cares can see what he's actually saying.
No wonder DC occasionally brings up the idea of a kill switch for it...
The Times is trying as hard as it can to get the conversation off Biden, but the problem is, as is so often the case with Trump outrages, there is no there there. Many of our NATO partners weren't fulfilling their obligations and he pushed them to do better.
He was somewhat successful, which is more than the guy before him and the guy after him can say. NATO is stronger for what Trump did.
Putin's work is never done — and Trump is just the guy to do it — but it's possible he is doing Europe a favor.
except for the poison pill placed in the Ukraine bill working it's way through the Senate. Designed as grounds to impeach Trump if he stops funding the Ukraine war.
How refreshing to see politicians get beyond dancing to a headline for the democrat media. Marco Rubio was especially good. Never accept the Democrat talking point when talking to them.
Trump the alleged "white nationalist" doesn't want to give white European countries a free ride while Democrats do.
The Art Of The Deal? A very hard deal? Never easy to discern just what's going on in is mind. Maybe for Trump himself as well.
About time Republican leaders remembered that the voters expect us to fight on their behalf against the Democrats, instead of fighting each other.
Like I said before, it was an obvious joke. But the far-left does not understand the concept of a joke. To them everything an enemy says has to be taken at serious, face value to get maximum political mileage out of it. That way they can parade it about in the complicit national media in the same way that politicians used to parade around the bloody shirt in congress over 100 years ago.
The outrage machine never sleeps.
And of course Lindsey Graham shows himself to still be an ass. Instead of logically telling the democrat reporter what this story is about and rebutting it he just yaks off "oh it's just trump, you know, he's crazy and stupid".
Cannot stand him, cornyn, mcconnell, romney. They are the worst backstabbers.
Hannah Arendt’s reputation as a major political thinker was established by her "Origins of Totalitarianism" (1951) . . . . Arendt viewed the growth of totalitarianism as the outcome of the disintegration of the traditional nation-state. She argued that totalitarian regimes, through their pursuit of raw political power and their neglect of material or utilitarian considerations, had revolutionized the social structure and made contemporary politics nearly impossible to predict.
https://www.britannica.com/biography/Hannah-Arendt
As Hannah Arendt has said, the goal is not always for people to believe the lies, [as demonstrated by the“firehose of falsehoods” technique of propagandizing that Trump so skillfully employs as a method of Pavlovian conditioning], but to overwhelm so that people's ability to take it all in and rationally respond shuts down. Trump excels at that and we are living the consequences.
Trump said what he said [captured on tape] about not defending NATO nations that are not paying bills, he went further to say that his threat had solved the money inflow problems and made everyone safer. In doing so, he just kept on growing the lie that he had the dictatorial power to not participate in our mutual defense pact.
Above is a perfect example of how Trump has trained Republicans to hate the rule of law by disguising his lies by first accusing Democrats and NoTrumpers of not abiding by said rule of law.
Trump is right. No more wars/ethnic Springs with benefits. No more shared/shifted responsibility through debt/progressive prices.
This sounds like a reprise of the notion that you should take Trump seriously but not literally. There was plenty of commentary along those lines in the 2016 and 2020 cycles. Trump hasn't changed since then, and there's no reason to change how his statements are best understood.
I don't know which side is working faster to invite attacks on Taiwan, South Korea, Poland, and elsewhere, including sending a nuke on Israel -- the Biden White House or the Trump camp with its GOP lackeys.
Moderate republicans betrayed the country and the party by dumping on Trump from the outset. Jonah Goldberg was one of the leaders of this movement at National Review Online. More important and well known republicans soon followed suit. Rather than grabbing an oar and helping find more moderate and well organized path they stood on shore and heckled while Trump was forced to take on what everyone saw as less capable assistance. Trump was the only Republican capable of beating Hillary; and machine republicans preferred Hillary to forcing a break with establishment DC. Now they see the error of their ways and only jump in with tepid non support. Marco Rubio s possibly the only Cuban in Florida that doesn’t know the stakes in a presidential election.
What Chick said... You know how long they bucked the will of the base?
Until Trump comes along, not only saying what we wanted to hear... he went and did a lot of it.
I feel like I owe him my vote.
why would they want not to contribute their share of the bill, what is this 2014
At least the GOP is open about admitting what a bunch of clowns they are. It seems like a race to the bottom in seeing how unserious they can be and still be relevant.
Party of Q anon
Party of Q uislings
" Biden said at the beginning of his Presidency about being ok with a limited Russian invasion of Ukraine?"
Biden said that to lure Putin into his trap, which he thought would have caused regime change in Moscow by now. Think of it as "come into my parlor, said the spider to the fly."
He did many things to provoke and cajole Russia to intervene in the Ukrainian civil war directly so that we could "use Ukrainians to kill Russians" on the cheap, including, while Russia had troops massed on the border, undertaking an offensive into ethnic Russian territory with American supplied weapons. Many of these weapons provided by Trump, BTW. Putin's love for ethnic Russians makes him manipulatable, and his prior announcement of red flags regarding bringing Ukraine into NATO just meant that we could trigger the war on the day of our choosing, and to put the blame on Putin.
I keep hearing the "firehose of lies" thing, which is a convenient formulation. Then nobody needs to look at any particular "lie" and actually reveal the facts behind this statement or that. One of the reasons people begin wo wonder whether we are using the exact same technique on Putin to cover stuff up is because this is the technique that has been used against Trump from day one.
So far, if you listen to the words and wait for the truth to bubble up, there are two sources of firehoses of lies, Ukraine, and Joe Biden, and the two are joined at the him.
"I recall telling a Biden supporter in 2016 that this was my chief compliment for Trump: a reduction in war. I told him the same thing would not continue under Biden."
Not that I'm a partisan of Biden's, but you're wrong in both statements. Trump didn't reduce the US's active participation in war in his term. He didn't withdrew our troops from Afghanistan, while Biden did. Trump maintained the US wars that he inherited from Bush and Obama and he let them continue.
(Biden is, of course, stealing our money and giving it without our permission to Ukraine and Israel so they can maintain and increase their warring.)
The Fourth Estate has transitioned to the Fifth Column.
Complete with “bottom surgery”.
Josef Robinettekov Biden? GTFO!
The majority of NATO doesn't participate in our mutual defense pact, are they using dictatorial powers? Strange logic from gadfly. As amply demonstrated by Trump and other presidents, a president can in fact refuse to participate in a treaty. They can unilaterally do as they please regarding treaties, including withdrawal.
News of the Day: ‘fly LEAVES turd!
Skeptical Voter: "As usual Trump's statements--sensible enough in context, and meant to encourage dead beats to pay their fair share are amplified and transmogrified into something they were not."
And, as always, certain conservative/republican commenters fall for it again and again and pretend the problem is Trump.
The same types that tend to be the GOPe suckups. A GOPe that, as we speak, are working feverishly behind the scenes to set Trump up for ANOTHER hoax impeachment...which these same conservative/republican buffoons would without a doubt also blame on Trump.
Some things will never change.
Foreign Affairs magazine uses Trump's statements to frighten Europe into doing what Trump has always said that they should have done!
https://www.foreignaffairs.com/united-states/trump-proofing-europe
What is "Trump proofing" but doing what Trump said, who is using Trump's statements as a bargaining position? Once you see through these guys, and stop reading them as if they are just typing out what they think, these news stories become fascinating.
So the US has provided Ukraine with $200B and the Euro NATO members $25B.
And yet they question the US “commitment”.
Looking at history, Russia doesn't invade Western Europe, but rather Western Europe attempts to invade Russia and inevitably gets pushed back. Am I missing something here?
Cruz is correct. US is no longer in financial position to single-handedly provide Western Europe's sheep supposed "defense" against big bad wolf Russia. Nor is it moral duty of US to provide that defense half-century after Nazi Germany was defeated. US has near-bankrupted itself by playing global cop across the world, and only the private-sector military contractor combine has benefited. If US Fed government continues acting like it has unlimited funds to fund wars and subsidize Western Europe, then US itself is sunk. We're at brink now.
Another fine source of journalism from Britain, The Daily Mail, has a useful chart showing who is and is not paying their share of NATO bills:
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13074357/Which-NATO-countries-not-paying-bills-Europe.html
Trump is just a well-meaning elderly man who presents as someone who says random crazy shit.
The EU is ruled by children who yell at daddy for taking their credit card. Democrats are in collusion with the EU leadership to influence our elections. Obviously.
Just like a sick modern family where mom and daughter screech at old dad for trying to save for retirement. And berate him because all their friends have trust funds except them.
Rejahm: The Trump Is A Crazy War Monger trope isn't really going to fly this time is it? Even Marco Rubio gets it.
That would be "Little Marco."
I don't always approve, but I do chuckle.
First Rule of Journalism Club:
Everything Donald Trump says must be interpreted in the least flattering manner possible, even if it's necessary to lie.
Corollary to the First Rule:
Everything Joe Biden says must be interpreted in the most flattering manner possible, even if it's necessary to lie.
Gadfly.
Have you ever been to the US cemetary at Normandy? Luxemberg? If you had you'd know why Trump want's every NATO country pay their own way. We left way too many guys and treasure there when we helped the last time.
If you think Trump will be a dictator, well, you're not as smart as I have given you credit for.
Well, if there’s one thing I’ve learned from these comments, it’s that Gadfly has read Hannah Arendt (or - in all likelihood just excerpts) and hasn’t understood any of it.
- Rafe
"Nor is it moral duty of US to provide that defense half-century after Nazi Germany was defeated."
*Checks calendar*...
It would appear to be closer to a century than a half-century, if one is rounding off. Just sayin'.
Many NATO allies, along with the US, shipped many billions of dollars worth of weaponry to non-NATO Ukraine. NATO and the US have prolonged the pointless slaughter for years, with no end in sight. NATO's post cold war behavior has accomplished nothing but boxing in Russia. Russia, not surprisingly, lashed out. NATO and the rules based international order are obsolete. They should pay their own bills, or end the farce.
Giving aid and comfort the enemy is now a bargaining point or a joke or bullshit or whatever euphemism you want to condone treason.
"G.O.P. Officials, Once Critical, Stand by Trump After NATO Comments....."
So, we are now to believe that all of these lickspittle RINO toadies that have despised Trump all along, unless he's enjoying a moment of spontaneous popularity, and now his bestest friends forever?
Yeah. Hanging on their every word, because their credibility runs so deep. Watch for the abrupt change-of-heart just as soon as it becomes remotely defensible. Like the tiger, the skunk doesn't change his stripe - or his aroma.
Exactly why is it Govt entities never age our of usefulness?
Why do we still need NATO?
Milton Friedman quipped, there is nothing so permanent as a temporary govt program.
Why is a Marshall plan WWII agency still exactly as it was 70 years ago?
Part of our F'ed up foreign policy centers on still acting like we are pulling Europe out of the destruction of WWII. But we are long past that.
Howard: "Giving aid and comfort the enemy is now a bargaining point or a joke or bullshit or whatever euphemism you want to condone treason."
LOL
Its funny you think your pathetic lies will work!
Your collusion and dossier hoaxes collapsed a long time ago there clownnose.
Still waiting for your explanation for that sweet sweet $3.5M the Moscow mayors wife slipped to your "heroic" Hunter and Joey Bag O'Donuts along with the even sweeter $150M Putins pals slipped to your pinup gal Hillary...along with those sweet sweet $500,000 Moscow speeches your Epstein Island Boy Billy C cashed in on...
...and all on top of you guys handing Uranium One to Vlad as well as the Crimea AND Eastern Ukraine!
Why dont you cart your little arse over to yahoo where your "compelling" "arguments" can gain a little traction!
Too funny.
BTW, have you guys figured out where you are going to put your Hamas statue yet?
Be sure to keep us updated.
And I suppose more condolences are in order for you now that the Israelis dared to rescue 2 of their hostages at the very moment the official New Soviet Democratical Party's position is Full Pro-Hamas.
Thoughts and prayers for you. Thoughts and prayers!
It's not "treason" to oppose the plans of the neocons. Last I checked, the United States was not at war with Russia. It's not treason to use all of one's powers to avoid such a disastrous war.
Dave Begley said...
"Trump's sloppiness in language has always been a huge problem for Donald. He's not a lawyer. "
Biden mixes things up in a sentence: Dave- He's demented and should be removed from office.
Trump call on Putin to invade Poland: Dave- "He's not a lawyer".
deepelemblues said...
"The deliberate misrepresentation of Trump's comments "
Trump "One of the presidents of a big country stood up and said, “Well, sir, if we don’t pay and we’re attacked by Russia, will you protect us?” I said, “You didn’t pay, you’re delinquent?” He said, “Yes, let’s say that happened.” “No, I would not protect you. In fact, I would encourage them to do whatever the hell they want.”
Nuff said!
Rusty said...
"Gadfly.
Have you ever been to the US cemetary at Normandy? Luxemberg? "
"When President Donald Trump canceled a visit to the Aisne-Marne American Cemetery near Paris in 2018, he blamed rain for the last-minute decision, saying that “the helicopter couldn’t fly” and that the Secret Service wouldn’t drive him there. Neither claim was true."
In a conversation with senior staff members on the morning of the scheduled visit, Trump said, “Why should I go to that cemetery? It’s filled with losers.” In a separate conversation on the same trip, Trump referred to the more than 1,800 marines who lost their lives at Belleau Wood as “suckers” for getting killed.
News for Howard: Ukraine is looking for more volunteers of all ages!
Here's your chance to finally get some combat time so you can develop enough of a sense of self-worth that you wont need to continue your massive over-compensation exercise on Althouse blog!
Come on! Get with it and take on some of the dems biggest russki funders!
Mutaman spews propaganda from the left like it is still considered true, like a good little Brown Shirt. He deserves Joe Biden and the bankrupted America filled with unvaccinated, unvetted criminal illegal aliens.
Mutaman said...
Rusty said...
"Gadfly.
Have you ever been to the US cemetary at Normandy? Luxemberg? "
Have you?
And you missed the point entirely. Unexpectedly!
Any young man who signs up to fight for this regime, a regime that despises America, and a regime that puts the interests of Ukraine, Taiwan, and Israel above the interests of the United States is a sucker.
NATO and the rules based international order are obsolete.
Not just NATO. This stands true for nearly all US foreign policy. Outdated, entrenched, ossified and corrupt.
I am actually with Trump on this one. If they will not contribute to their own defense, then why should the United States spend blood and treasure on their defense? Should our young men fight and die for them when they will not do it for themselves? Should our taxpayers sacrifice for them when they are not willing to sacrifice for themselves? If they want to be protectorates, then Russia is a lot closer than we are.
11:26 PM
Can't help but notice you provided no link for your bullshit.
https://www.cnn.com/2023/10/02/politics/john-kelly-donald-trump-us-service-members-veterans/index.html
Nuff said.
Gadfly: that made no sense to the current discussion. Try again.
Poland pays its dues. Luxembourg, Montenegro, Germany, Spain, and Canada, among other prosperous nations, do not
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