January 4, 2024

"Old-school liberals can simply go on championing free-speech values. But the 'woke' or 'identitarian' left cannot go on as before."

"Having long agitated for more sweeping speech restrictions and taboos, they now confront a dilemma: They do not want 'woke' hate speech or sensitivity standards applied to Palestinian-aligned activists, and they are unwilling to police speech that unnerves many Jews in the way that they policed speech they considered upsetting to other identity groups; yet they cannot subject Jews to such a blatant double standard without alienating many Americans and losing moral standing and attendant influence.... One faction wants to resolve the double standard by treating Jews as the woke left treats Black and brown people and members of the LGBTQ community—to grant them the status of an oppressed group and to police speech on their behalf. A more farsighted faction wants everyone to get equal treatment, regardless of identity, when speaking or being spoken about. This conflict is especially hard for institutions that moved away from old-school-liberal speech attitudes toward leftist identitarianism, and created diversity, equity, inclusion, and belonging bureaucracies, only to treat Jews inequitably while leaving many Jews and Palestinians alike feeling slighted and aggressed. Why conserve that?"

Writes Conor Friedersdorf, in "How October 7 Changed America’s Free-Speech Culture/The identitarian left cannot go on as it did before the attacks" (The Atlantic).

55 comments:

rhhardin said...

The left is consistent - only genetically average stupid people of shade brown or darker are protected. They're pets.

Jews are white and smarter than anybody, two down counts.

Jews cultivate alienation but it's to protect their tribal traditions from assimilation.

Mason G said...

It's almost like pigeonholing people based on ethnicity/skin color/sex/whatever and treating every individual in each particular box as an interchangeable unit leads to awkward results.

The Crack Emcee said...

Until America is set upright, and stop believing every Zionist lie they can come up with, I'm not going to be concerned about changing Free Speech - if I ever will. Jews are feeling heat because Zionism is horrifying. That's not antisemitism but a fact - and a fact they have a responsibility to do something about.

We're sick of this Nazi bullshit.

Maynard said...

A more farsighted faction wants everyone to get equal treatment, regardless of identity, when speaking or being spoken about.

Traditional American values are now far sighted.

Far out Man!

Michael K said...

I think this is hilarious and only the first "unexpected outcome" of identity politics. Claudine Gay is the standard bearer for black women who cheat. The new black woman supreme court justice, what ever her name is, who can't define a woman is the next most ridiculous example. When merit means nothing and skin color defines your life and chances for advancement, we will soon be tied in knots to justify this stuff.

Leland said...

One faction wants to resolve the double standard by treating Jews as the woke left treats Black and brown people and members of the LGBTQ community

That’s not my observation. It seems they want Hamas to have this privilege, as observed by the three Ivy League Presidents.

Yancey Ward said...

Bless his heart!

Yancey Ward said...

Bless his heart!

gspencer said...

Heh, heh, heh,

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/zCdul_7dn3o/maxresdefault.jpg

tim in vermont said...

Authoritarian regimes like that in the US loves identity politics, because all they have to do is hand out goodies, and they are then left alone to govern as they see fit, otherwise. The problem here is that Gaza is a deep fault line in their identity politics coalition.

Biden wants to get re-elected, and can't do it without Muslims, so he orders the Gerald R Ford to return to Norfolk, and gets the Israelis to pull back the tanks, but *somebody* wants war with Iran, and so no deescalation will be allowed. Who steps up to the plate? Why if it isn't our old pretext delivery service, ISIS, who provided the justification for us to go into Syria and seize their oil fields! ISIS has claimed responsibility for a terror attack in Iran which killed scores. I am sure that the CIA had nothing to do with it. Just like Ambassador Stevens wasn't in Benghazi to buy up weapons that were floating around Libya after we overthrew their leader, to send them to Syria to get ISIS started up in business, so that we would have a pretext to invade Syria. (What did they do to us? Oh yeah, they are a client state of Russia, that's crime enough!)

There is an arm wrestling match over war in the Middle East, and Joe Biden, beloved by neocons as he is, is chickening out because he is afraid he is going to lose the Arab vote, and truth be told, he can't win without it, and as a narcissist, everything is about him. Guess what? The neocons figure that they can inveigle Nikki Haley into the presidency, and screw Joe Biden's personal political fortunes.

Enigma said...

This split has been coming for a long time. Harvard and DEI policies excluded east Asians from affirmative action programs for a very long while (as they often dominate academia...). So, both Jews and Asians are now 'white adjacent' in the ever more deranged DEI ideology.

No one will ever forget the Smithsonian's 2020 "Whiteness and White Culture" poster either.: whiteness = objective, rational linear thinking, cause and effect relationships, hard work is the key to success, and work before play!

https://www.newsweek.com/smithsonian-race-guidelines-rational-thinking-hard-work-are-white-values-1518333

White males CANNOT be accepted by the woke left, unless serving as subservient vehicles to a black-female-gay-transgendered-abused-disabled intersectional master (i.e., see white male puppets Biden, Newsom, and transgendered males wearing female garb). Ordinary lefty males (and white conventional female lefties) will either be forcefully purged or join the center-right because they have nowhere else to go. The ONLY thing keeping many of them in the Dem party is abortion.

I see a routine political pendulum swing in progress, aka "we are living in interesting times." The left always divides into those who are happy with current changes versus the diehard anarchists. The right is comprised of satisfied people with no motivation to change, only to defend the status quo. So, a critical mass of the left will soon transition to center-right. They will then have enough votes to create an anti-extremist center party akin to post WW2 West Germany. Trump is the unknown here -- it may not happen until he's out of the political picture one way or another.

Jupiter said...

"... and they are unwilling to police speech that unnerves many Jews in the way that they policed speech they considered upsetting to other identity groups;"

Yeah, what he said. Remember how they came down like a boatload of EV batteries on anyone who said mean things about white males or Christians? The fucking Jews can't expect to get that level of protection. Just 'cuz they own the place.

Aggie said...

Paragraph 1: "America’s free-speech culture is in sudden flux and some peril...."

Paragraph 2: "Old-school liberals can simply go on championing free-speech values. But the “woke” or “identitarian” left cannot go on as before. Having long agitated for more sweeping speech restrictions and taboos, they now confront a dilemma: They do not want “woke” hate speech or sensitivity standards applied to..."


I think I've spotted their problem.

n.n said...

A republican form of government designed to mitigate authoritarian progress and affirm individual rights. Conservativism or classical liberalism tempered by Judeo-Christian philosophy.

Hubert the Infant said...

I think there is more to it. The most visible Jew haters are blacks and Muslims, which are the two groups that have benefitted the most from the movement to restrict so-called "hate speech." It certainly seems that they want to dish it out without suffering any consequences. They have gotten away with this for a long time, but, as the Claudine Gay saga shows, time is up.

Kai Akker said...

It's exhausting just reading this excerpt. Nothing that requires such hair-splitting and avoids logical conclusions so hard can ever last. Thank the Lord.

iowan2 said...

That's a constant problem for leftists. They have zero core values, everything they come up with is based on a desired outcome. No thought about 'shoe on the other foot' possibilities.

Treating ALL with respect was something drilled into us. And not just parents and relatives. People on the street would pull you up short and suggest you talk nicer and show respect.

When I was growing up, we learned that free speech meant protecting the worst most vile speech.

No need for the first amendment, to protect nice speech.

mikee said...

"Hate" being criminalized has always been about control of others, and nothing else. Sanctions for any misbehavior can never be applied to the progressive left. Each of them has the strength of ten, for their hearts are pure, I've heard.

narciso said...

ah conor was always off the mark, he didn't see the threat posed by obama, and his ring of charlatans his terror was about the Tea Party,

Biff said...

"they cannot subject Jews to such a blatant double standard without alienating many Americans and losing moral standing and attendant influence"

That's a remarkable statement, since "they" had no trouble subjecting a far larger group of moderates and conservatives to such a blatant double standard.

A charitable interpretation might be that "they" are uncomfortable silencing people who traditionally have been on more or less their team. A less charitable explanation might be that alienating the Jewish community also means alienating an important donor base.

Joe Smith said...

(non-classical) liberals are morons.

Left on their own they wouldn't be able to feed themselves.

Static Ping said...

Ah, kinder and gentler censorship. They can either decide that Jews get a place on the grievance ladder so they can continue to hate white men, or they can go the equity route and hate everyone in an equal opportunity fascist state. Fun.

Neither can work, at least not logically. The first runs into the issue that some of the ladder are going to object vigorously and not play along. The second defeats the entire purpose of the oppressor/oppressed framework.

Of course, when the entire point is to force other people to agree with you, even if what you believe changes by the minute, logically consistency is just a nuisance.

The Vault Dweller said...

Oh what a deadly trade we ply, when first we group-identify.

chuck said...

Whatever advances the revolution is the correct position. These bourgeois pretensions parading as moral argument cloud the issue.

TheThinManReturns said...

C*uck, AMDG and *ich are sympathetic assholes that will reap the whirlwind in the afterlife.
thing is, it’s not based on how much you love your family, like or job,
the question is, do you love yourself more than G*d.
They do, and are advised to get their business straight

TheThinManReturns said...

ahh. while I’m not dumb, I could be stupid.
I surrender. c*uck really does suck.
chances are this won’t post

Rabel said...

They sacrificed a couple of goats at the universities and will soon fully resume their holy crusade, but with a bit more attention to the PR aspects.

The idea the latest dust-up and the responses reflect a major change is nonsense.

Sebastian said...

"yet they cannot subject Jews to such a blatant double standard"

Sure they can. Or at least, finesse it.

And it's not just campuses. Many professional associations went all in on the Jew hatred--hard to see how they step back.

Are there any "liberals" left?

planetgeo said...

It's not just the woke and identitarian phase of the leftist craziness spectrum that is no longer logically defensible, the "old school liberals" have long since gone off any rational position regarding free speech. It's almost laughable the contortions they need to go through in even discussing the topic.

If you want to have some fun just say any of the following to your few remaining liberal friends in a friendly but serious tone:

"Say, whatever happened to 'Question authority', or 'Dissent is the highest form of patriotism', or the classic 'I may disagree with what you say but I will defend to my death your right to say it'? Does any of that still apply to personal pronouns, whether men can have babies, or anything regarding Jews, white males, vaccines/masking, doxing/canceling, etc.?"

I mean, how can they not be completely embarrassed by their inane rationalizations?

Big Mike said...

…and they are unwilling to police speech that unnerves many Jews… [My emphasis]

You know, I think if I was Jewish I would be “unnerved” by a rabid mob shouting “Death to Jews,” or people explaining in great detail why “From the river to the sea” is not about Jewish extermination, even as hate-spewing rioters chant it as they vandalize Jewish-owned restaurants or attempt to kick in library doors as Jewish students hide inside.

Let’s cut the crap, shall we?

WWIII Joe Biden, Husk-Puppet + America's Putin said...

The left does what it wants. It just hates consequences. Too bad.

Somewhere in WI said...

“A less charitable explanation might be that alienating the Jewish community also means alienating an important donor base”
This from Biff

The “in the know” higher ups in academia are very worried that the money will dry up for all of the think tanks and scholarly pursuits to prove CRT really is the answer to all American problems. No money no graft no easy life….
And the people like Crack don’t care. And this worries the academics….ALOT.

Somewhere

WWIII Joe Biden, Husk-Puppet + America's Putin said...

Crack losers.
Hiveminders.
"Al Sharpton has organized the most low-energy, low-powered protest of @BillAckman
imaginable. A small crowd, median age of about 50, summoning up nostalgia for Sharpton's previous demagoguery against New York Jews. Shameful, pathetic, ineffective."

Big Mike said...

Here is the bottom line: If you believe that the Jewish state has a right to exist, then you must allow Israel to transfer the Palestinians and the Israeli-Arabs from Judea, Samaria, Gaza and Israel proper.

This is from an article — by Ben Shapiro — that Crack linked to in his comment at 4:13. At least Shapiro recognized the true problem, namely, that the Palestinians do not recognize Israel as a jegitimate country with legitimate borders and a legitimate right to defend its citizens. The Palestinians foolishly imagine they can succeed in exterminating every Jew in Israel, and if they never stop coming then some day they will succeed. How many Palestinians have to die before they recognize that this dream can never be achieved? More than have died so far, apparently.

Things Crack has to believe to hold his views, despite a historical record that says otherwise:

(1) That the Jews in Israel in 1948 were not attacked by the combined armies from 7 different Arab nations intent n exterminating them. Nope. He seems to think the Jews, poorly armed as they were, were the aggressors.

(2) That the Israelis have ever fought a war in the intervening 75 years that was not defensive in nature.

(3) That rape, torture, mutilation, and murder are legitimate military tactics and not crimes against humanity.

Among other misconceptions too numerous to include. Do not attempt to engage Crack with facts and logic. Do not attempt to reason with the unreasonable. Just laugh at him.

holdfast said...

In the immortal words of Kathleen Kennedy: put a chick in it and make her Claudine Gay, and lame.

The most blatant beneficiaries of DEI and affirmative action cannot abide those striving Jews and Asians. The very presence of those hard workers makes the socially promoted feel bad, and they should never be made to feel bad.

Angry white rednecks are at least useful as a foil and a fundraising tool. But those bookish Jews are just totally unhelpful to the woke.

Oso Negro said...

@Tim in Vermont - Joe may want Arab money, but the Arab vote? What, he is afraid he won't carry California without it?

Oso Negro said...

A great deal of this language game started with the loss of the word "Negro". Negro was a perfectly fine and respectable word. Let's revive it. Oh, and put "sticks and stones" in every pre-school, kindergarten, elementary school, secondary school and university curriculum. No, words do NOT cause "irreparable damage".

Shoeless Joe said...

"yet they cannot subject Jews to such a blatant double standard without alienating many Americans and losing moral standing and attendant influence.... "

Look at what Conor Friedersdorf is actually saying here.

If ethics and morality meant anything to the leftist mob then simply pointing out their double standards would be enough to get them to rethink their positions. But of course they don't have an ethical bone in their bodies, and hypocrisy is their one true superpower. As history has shown us over and over again -- if liberals didn't have double standards they'd have no standards at all.

So you have to point out that when too many people recognize their hypocrisy it tends to cost them influence and political power. THAT is the only way they'll reconsider their actions, because influence and political power is all that matters to them.

Josephbleau said...

"Jews cultivate alienation but it's to protect their tribal traditions from assimilation."

As we have learned from Marxism and the Borg, assimilation means that you start over at the bottom of the heap, and need a century to work your way back up, like the Jewish slaves that were sent to Babylon. Primitive force destroys intellect, remnants of intellect coalesce into a force for good, good people don't know how to respond to primitive power, primitive force destroys intellect.

The cycle of civilization continues.

hpudding said...

It’s nice that Ben Shapiro grew up and changed views (even if they were appropriate for resolving other conflicts such as German colonization of Eastern Europe after WWII, for example). But no matter. At least that sets him apart from people who never mature in their views and want to ethnically cleanse the Middle East of Jews, as Crack wants to do. But maybe that’s just the plagiarist in him talking. Not everyone is capable of original thought. Claudine Gay, Crack, etc. So can he really be blamed for bad ideas that he can’t even come up with in the first place?

Maybe Crack should be graded on a curve so that he can judge America to be upright - as they do with grade inflation in college and as if his opinion should matter to decent Americans in the first place. It’s interesting to live in a country where some of the least important and least original people feel that they’ve got all the answers to everything in life and only racism would keep you from understanding how correct they are. Feelings over facts, for these cranks.

WWIII Joe Biden, Husk-Puppet + America's Putin said...

8:52 Big Mike.
Indeed.

Witness said...

that which cannot go on forever will not

effinayright said...

Josephbleau said...
"Jews cultivate alienation but it's to protect their tribal traditions from assimilation."

As we have learned from Marxism and the Borg, assimilation means that you start over at the bottom of the heap, and need a century to work your way back up, like the Jewish slaves that were sent to Babylon.
*************

Agreed. Just look at the century it took the immigrant forebears of Nikki Haley, Vivek and Kamala Harris to rise to prominence in America.

Oh wait...

Butkus51 said...

Time for some comedy.

The definition of "Liberal" in the Oxford English dictionary.

1. willing to respect or accept behavior or opinions different from one's own; open to new ideas.

2. relating to or denoting a political and social philosophy that promotes individual rights, civil liberties, democracy, and free enterprise.



wildswan said...

Biden can't win without both the Muslims and the Jews and he can't have both.
October 7, 2023 is a fault line - the world is different on each side of it. The Israelis understood right away, the Diaspora took a few days, and, now in the US, different groups are realizing it at different rates. What the change is isn't worked out in terms of politics or social trends - it's a deep reaction to a profound cataclysm that will slowly expand beyond the original events. But this is sure - the Diaspora will not listen to or work with people talking like Crack - and such people are all through the BLM-DEI-Iran-hugger-Obama wing of the Democratic party.
One Israeli woman (from California) put it this way. "Everything shattered. Am I still a Democrat? I'm certainly not a Republican." here's her situation: in Israel they had 1200 people killed, 5,000 wounded, 340 kidnapped and in response they moved 200,000 people from near the borders, called up 350,000 reservists (who all came), sent home most their 30,000 Thai agricultural workers (creating an agricultural crisis), and invaded Gaza. All this created enormous needs which the Israelis and the Diaspora are intent on meeting. "Am I still a Democrat?"
Obviously, the needs of the pronoun furries and feminist furies in the US who being subjected to violence in the form of mis-gendering, mis-pronouning, or misogyny were never going to get the attention or the open pocketbooks they would have gotten from Jewish allies before October 7. There would always have been pause of a kind after October 7 while Israel was in emergency.
But in the US, in that pause, voices of the ugliest sort have been issuing from those the Jewish Democrats were allied with. It amazes me. I did know antisemitism was more widespread and more mainstream on the left than the right. But no one, least of all the Jews, seemed to care. After October 7, they do. But the left is still chanting and name-calling Jews as if nothing happened. A little denial - that's always worked - and we move on. Not this time.
I don't think anyone knows what will be the consequences of "After October 7" - it's too new and those most concerned are too busy and too intent on avoiding disunity. But slowly, inexorably something will emerge. And I think that, like Claudine Gay, the Obama wing - from sea to shining sea - will have to do without Jewish help. Let's see how they do on their own.

The Crack Emcee said...

Big Mike has written yet another comment with no evidence, and no links to evidence, but lots of horrible ideas and insults, as usual:

"Shapiro recognized the true problem, namely, that the Palestinians do not recognize Israel as a jegitimate country with legitimate borders and a legitimate right to defend its citizens."

If "Shapiro recognized the true problem" then so did Hitler, because their "solution" is the same.

"The Palestinians foolishly imagine they can succeed in exterminating every Jew in Israel, and if they never stop coming then some day they will succeed."

"The blacks foolishly imagine they can succeed in eliminating slavery in America, and if they never stop coming then some day they will succeed."

"How many Palestinians have to die before they recognize that this dream can never be achieved? More than have died so far, apparently."

He's really asking how many people the Zionists will murder - and they will - since eliminating apartheid just doesn't occur to them.

Things Crack has to believe to hold his views, despite a historical record that says otherwise:

(1) That the Jews in Israel in 1948 were not attacked by the combined armies from 7 different Arab nations intent n exterminating them. Nope. He seems to think the Jews, poorly armed as they were, were the aggressors.

Zionists started bombing those people in 1946 and you know it. Every position you take clearly implies no one has a right to fight back against what the whites wanted. By 1948, 75% of Arabs were against the creation of Israel, but nobody's gonna stop the Zionists and the white boys (the US and the UK) from their stated goal of using that land as a proxy to rule the area like, as Biden said, an aircraft carrier for western interests. "Poorly armed." Backed by the British and Americans? You HAVE to be joking.

(2) That the Israelis have ever fought a war in the intervening 75 years that was not defensive in nature.

Who started the hostilities, Fool? They started lying, by saying no one was living in Palestine, and you think the locals were wrong not to like or want them after that? And why do Zionists have to defend themselves if that's the safest place on Earth for Jews? You make no god damned sense.

(3) That rape, torture, mutilation, and murder are legitimate military tactics and not crimes against humanity.

I'm not going to keep refuting these lies. You don't want to see the obvious and I can't make you.

"Among other misconceptions too numerous to include. Do not attempt to engage Crack with facts and logic. Do not attempt to reason with the unreasonable. Just laugh at him."

Again: he says this in a comment with no evidence, and no links to evidence. It's just him, chewing his cud loudly, and that's enough. Here's everything Israel did for a year before Oct 7 - laugh at the results of that.

cfs said...

We could just make this easier by declaring that all groups are protected classes with the exception of non-Jew conservative male Caucasians. Of course, when there is a question as to who is the most oppressed when it comes to a disagreement between a disabled black female and Muslim LBGTQ person then the resolution may have to be pistols at dawn.

Obama did more to divide this nation than anyone in our past history. Since he was elected, and at his direction, everyone has been so fixated on dividing our country by race that we no longer have any common ground.

The Crack Emcee said...

Another thread that's ignored my comments - what's up, Guys?

Josephbleau said...

“Agreed. Just look at the century it took the immigrant forebears of Nikki Haley, Vivek and Kamala Harris to rise to prominence in America.

Oh wait...“

All their families were assimilated to western culture prior to 1923 in Jamaica or British India, none of them appear to have been enslaved like my example, but good to see you are hard at work on the details of internet truth.

Jamie said...

I don't think "ignored" is the word you're looking for, Crack.

Rusty said...

The Crack Emcee said...
"Another thread that's ignored my comments - what's up, Guys?"
I know, right? This may seem odd, but this is not your blog and the owners get a vote on what goes on it. Perhaps they feel that you have obsessed enough about the perfidious Jews on their dime and want you to tone it down just a bit. Perhaps there are other blogs with like minded people where you can let your predudices soar freely and not burden Althouse as the sole repository of your ant-semitic insights.
In conclusion. It is a fools game to try and appeal to Althouses sense of fair play because, quite frankly, I don't think she gives a shit. And rightly so. Life is too short to go about worrying about every Jew hating nutjob.

Old and slow said...

The Crack Emcee said...
Another thread that's ignored my comments - what's up, Guys?

"Guys?, guys? it's me Crack... I have important things to say!"

JAORE said...

"Another thread that's ignored my comments - what's up, Guys?"

Sanity?

I keed, I keed.

I have no problem with your posts appearing. But I have learned there is no "there" there.

Jamie said...

Perhaps there are other blogs with like minded people where you can let your predudices soar freely and not burden Althouse as the sole repository of your ant-semitic insights.

Call me a fool, but... I still don't believe Crack is antisemitic.

He is, however, unusually credulous on the subjects of the veracity of these particular jihadists and the nefariousness of "Zionists." I chalk it up to the fact that he's also unusually credulous on the subject of racism. On this subject, in contrast to almost every other on which he comments, he embraces the oppressor/oppressed narrative: an "oppressed" person can't be racist, only an "oppressor" can. And there's spillover into the relationship between Israelis and "Palestinians" - he sympathizes with the plight of "Palestinians" (despite where the real blame for that plight lies) and feels only righteous anger toward "Zionists."

Crack, ask yourself: when was the last time you heard the PA or Hamas or any jihadist group take responsibility for something they didn't want to happen and weren't proud of? How about the government of Israel?

Shouldn't that tell you something about whom to believe?

Greg the Class Traitor said...

Big Mike said...
Let’s cut the crap, shall we?

you can't have teh Left if you cut the crap