Writes Giles Coren, seeking attention in "I’m so lucky my sister never came to anything" (London Times).
Here's the article he's commenting on: "Why siblings are a source of teenage stress/An adolescent with more brothers and sisters is more likely to feel depression, anxiety and low self-esteem."
By the way, I love the word "boffins." It's one of the small set of words I've actually made a tag for. (What are the others? "Garner," of course. But do you know the rest? Do I? The tag-suggester function tells me there are tags for "deeply," "energize," "how," "muster," "performative," and "women." )
Anyway, as for this siblings-as-a-source-of-stress business, of course, siblings can be very annoying and, as I remember, one is especially irritable in the teenage years, but this boffin said the reason for the stress is competition for resources. It seems to me that having siblings accustoms us to not getting everything we want, so we resign ourselves to a modest share. I was just thinking about how much I wanted to take dance lessons when I was a child. I was told no, and it never occurred to me to cry about it or beg. It was enough just to think that to ask more than once would be to risk being considered selfish.
Other British slang in that Giles Coren quote: "tosh," "rogered." Are these rude words? "Tosh" was originally cricket slang — cricket the sport, not cricket the insect. Someone in 1898, "Among the recent neologisms of the cricket field is 'tosh,' which means bowling of contemptible easiness." These days it means nonsense or twaddle.
"Roger," though, is "coarse slang," in the OED's opinion. It means "to have sexual intercourse with." It's interesting to read the OED's historical quotes:
1711 — I rogered my wife. W. Byrd
1763 — I picked up a little profligate wretch and gave her sixpence... ‘Should not a half-pay officer r-g-r for sixpence?’J. Boswell
1953 — I..sulked all morning over my warm beer as they..rolled rodgering down. D. Thomas
Posts
59 comments:
Oh brother. The most well adjusted kids through the pandemic and after I know were kids with lots of siblings. They were never really isolated. My younger kids won't really remember the pandemic because they just played outside all day.
Everything can be a source of stress. But apparently prefects more than sisters. Write more about that.
Siblings are a source of stress and do compete for resources, but this is typically manageable for most people. Maybe it is another one of those generational problems like that same generation that has issues with JK Rowling. There is certainly an increase in suicides and that is very bad, and suicide often occurs when people can’t cope with stress in their life. Previous generation saw siblings as extra resources not competition for them. It might be helpful if we educated people about such benefits rather than focusing on the negatives. Life isn’t zero sum but resources can take time to develop.
On another tangent, what’s Professor Downey’s opinion on open borders? Is he consistent?
How would you like to be named Roger Johnson?
"While I was away at boarding school between the ages of 13 and 17, for example, being bullied, cold-showered and rogered senseless by the prefects ..."
I am not entirely confident in my grasp of British slang, but I think he is saying that he was routinely subject to homosexual rape by the older students. Not that there's anything wrong with that.
It helps to know that Coren's sister is probably far better known than he is.
Fear of primogeniture has a real basis. It’s not all Smothers brothers jealousy. That was a real cause for immigration or joining the army. Unless you were first born you had nothing at home to lose.
Whenever I see a study like this I think, "Interesting. Now, what am I supposed to do with this knowledge?" Not have siblings? Embrace my anxiety now that I know who to blame (my siblings... or my parents)?
Interesting fact: 80% of us in the US have siblings, and 100% of our siblings also have siblings. Do something with that stat....
Why siblings are a source of teenage stress
Our media is trying to enact China's "one child" policy via propaganda.
It’s only my lived experience, but from a family of nine children who now range from 63 to 81, I cherish, love, and admire my siblings. We all draw strength and counsel from each other, communicate regularly and have great family gatherings. My best friend when I was a teenager was my sister. Yes, there may be stress from siblings, but good stress makes you stronger and better. Lack of stress makes you weak, ask Jordan Peterson, Greg Lukianoff or Jonathan Haidt. Professor Douglas Downey of The Journal Family Issues is a downer. Thank you Ann, for having access to such reporting and provoking my emotion.
Boffin is a good PG Wodehouse word.
As for rogering, the brits seem to love them some ass-fucking at these fancy places.
And they rat on you, steal desserts and embarrass you in front of your friends
I am thankful for all three of my sisters. I only wish I had more siblings.
Depends.
My older brother was one of the worst people I've ever had the misfortune to know. No joke.
OTOH both of my younger brothers were great, even the youngest, who shares very few of my interests.
Was this excerpt meant to be a joke of some sort? Coming to it with no prior understanding of who these people are, that guy obviously sounds very angry at his parents, but it's not clear that his sister did anything to him.
"Was this excerpt meant to be a joke of some sort?"
Yes.
My experience was that siblings help balance the child/parent power. My siblings helped me go do fun, dangerous things, stay up reading late at night, form neighborhood clubs, and (in the case of younger sibling) be admired for things my parents didn't even know about.
If you could only get rid of your Parents and brothers/Sisters, your teenage years would be stress free!
The Teenage years are usually happy ones for most normal people. there's stress, but you're young, healthy, and full of beans. Usually your parents are providing all the $$, and you just take it for granted. So, plenty of time to play and discover the opposite sex.
The problem seems to be that all the newspaper articles, books, and research papers are written by oddballs and unhappy nerds who had miserable teen years. Maybe if the "Cool Kids", Cheerleaders, and HS QBs would write more, we'd get a different POV.
"Was this excerpt meant to be a joke of some sort? Coming to it with no prior understanding of who these people are, that guy obviously sounds very angry...."
No, he's not angry. He's having fun with it.
Competition for resources? What competition? Ma and Pa had their favorites, and that was it.
My big family has always had hangers on - kids from small families who found a place among our brood.
I'm not sure pursuing a policy of avoiding all stress and anxiety is good, especially in children. A sibling can sometimes be just the right candidate to remind a child that there are others around and they matter too. I think in China because of their one child policy they even adopted a new term called Little Emperor Syndrome to explain the perceived bad behaviors of all these only children. I remember lots of battles with my older brother growing up, sometimes verbal, sometimes physical. But then starting into middle to late teenage years we started developing a strong fraternal bond. As adults we have unconditional loyalty and support for one another. The point of raising children is to turn them into well-equipped adults. Siblings feel like a general positive for humans.
More siblings are a source of teenage freedom. If the siblings are younger, they distract the parents. If the siblings are older, they've worn the parents out or lulled them into benign indifference.
I suppose this is truish. I was routinely subjected to menstrual violence at the hands of my sister. Should I make a loud noise, such as yelling out when I burnt my hand, I might expect a spoon thrown into my forehead by my sister across the room washing the dishes. I didn't stress about it though.
Roger Sweeney asked: "How would you like to be named Roger Johnson?"
My friend's roommate was named Roger Bone. He was a nasty piece of work, too. Made me wonder if his name had any detrimental effect on his morals and his personality.
Pimples are a source of teenage stress.
Not like teenage stress is a high bar.
What ever gives these academics reason to believe that the reduction of stress to zero is a good thing?
What ever gets accomplished under conditions of zero stress?
What person is better equipped to deal with the slings and arrows of outrageous fortune through never dealing with them?
And yes, this is another of those "Have only one child, because [fill in the reason, which always sounds like Loving Your Child So Much but comes down to not interrupting your quest for personal fulfillment and organic, non-GMO comestibles]" articles.
More proof social sciences aren't.
More proof social sciences aren't.
Althouse wrote: "It seems to me that having siblings accustoms us to not getting everything we want, so we resign ourselves to a modest share."
I concur. I was the middle child of seven children. My 3 older siblings got some special treatment because they were older. My 3 younger siblings got some special treatment because they were younger. But I was stuck in the middle. So I've pretty much been resigned to yet thankful for whatever I have been given in life. I became a lawyer, so it turned out pretty good for me.
so, they're saying:
4 kids BAD!
2 kids Good!
1 Kids Better!
NO KIDS BEST!
IF we can Just Convince ALL humans, to Stop Procreating.. In 80 years Climate Change won't be a Problem!
Well.. Won't be OUR Problem!
To Recap: Kids are People.. People are THE PROBLEM!
Well, my family life from the point my father died (1962) until I moved out for good (c. 1974) was not normal in any sense.
"Maybe if the 'Cool Kids,' Cheerleaders, and HS QBs would write more . . ."
Assuming they can write at all.
Self-esteem is one of the more socially corrosive tropes of progressivism. High self-esteem correlates more often with low academic achievement than high achievement, and with criminality rather than lawful compliance.
I am 4th of 8 children. Childhood with them was hell on earth. We have very little contact today.
Good and bad. I was at the younger end of a big family (8 of 9) that had a definite pecking order. I never got something new unless it was my birthday or Christmas, never got the comfy chair, didn't get my own room until enough siblings moved out (but those siblings never got their own room), never got to pick the TV show, never got much parental attention.
But I did a have a lot of freedom because no one much knew or cared what I was doing. And there always was something to do because there were lots of people to do it with.
He and his sister are children of the great British humourist Alan Coren.
This is true in much the same way that the hospitality business would be lovely if it weren't for the guests.
RigelDog:
Roger Sweeney asked: "How would you like to be named Roger Johnson?"
My friend's roommate was named Roger Bone.
Most pitiable name I know of was a friend of mine in college, Barri Titze.
Has this person ever spent time with a group of only children? I thought not.
I had a sociopathic, violently abusive sibling. The other four were less important during my teen years. I didn't speak to the sociopath again for almost 30 years after I left home. I remain in contact with two sibs on a friendly basis, a third who has POA over care of our mother regularly in a businesslike manner, and the last has ghosted the entire family. We don't get to choose our families, but after leaving home we sure do get to choose how we interact with them.
Stressors in teen years included loss of my father to a sudden heart attack, the abusive brother, preponderantly unrequited sexual desire, school, onerous religious guilt, and of course fear of apocalyptic global war, which was a worry we were all encouraged to have over most of the 2nd half of the last century. I never starved or lost my home or got mugged, my neighbors and acquaintances were all normally decent human beings not criminal thugs, and I was supported in my own efforts to grow up successfully rather than oppressed. Not too bad, compared to many.
As to Althouse's modest share: The rule is one kid cuts the cake, then all others get to choose their pieces before the cutter gets theirs. Leads to atomically precise divisions of anything shared.
Freely developed self-esteem is vastly different from hard earned self-respect.
"What tosh." That's the first time I've ever seen that phrase before.
I grew up in a family with five children. It's weird how somebody can look at a group of siblings and only see the negative interactions in it.
Remember: when you're an only child, you have to do ALL the chores.
I was an only child and still told no when I asked for dance lessons.
How come we never hear about any little gilbars?
Watching my three nieces grow up from babies I can tell you I've never seen such violence like their pre-teen years when competing for a scarce resource.
Napoleon and Wellington were both second sons, and so am I. Both surpassed their older brothers in accomplishment and fame, and so did I. (I'm #2 of 4.)
The age gap between my older bro and myself is the longest, which should tell you something about him. By all accounts he was a shithead from the start, and of course our Oma made it worse by teaching him to expect expensive gifts (which the rest of us never got, though she promised us much) if he behaved . . . which he never did. Our mother spoiled him too--the eldest and our father's namesake--but she couldn't make expensive promises.
He was completely incapable of coping with our father's death, or any other difficulty and spent the remainder of his life making difficulties for himself and others.
My next brother and I were most aligned in interests, and got along very well. He was also the one with the most of our father's looks and manner I think, and was probably our mother's favorite. Why not, he was the favorite brother of the rest of us--and our cousins--too. He could always make me laugh.
Our mother pretty much ruined our youngest brother's chances of normality with her babying and reluctance to see him grow up. He was only three when our father died and had to be held back (twice!) in grade school. I try not to blame her too harshly, but blame her I do.
"As to Althouse's modest share: The rule is one kid cuts the cake, then all others get to choose their pieces before the cutter gets theirs. Leads to atomically precise divisions of anything shared."
You aren't wrong about that. I once weighed two lines of cocaine on an analytical balance, and they were within 2/1000ths of a gram each other. I told my brother to get over his greed and just let me pick.
Just antinatalist coming from another direction
My great grandfather had 9 sons and three daughters. Sibling rivalry must have taken place after the chores were done. City dwellers with only children have almost wrecked this country. There were no "Helicopter Parents" 150 years ago and the country was fine.
My siblings weren't the problem. My peers in junior high were.
" ... Professor Douglas Downey of Ohio State University in the Journal of Family Issues ..."
The question is, why are we paying this asshole to concoct these moronic lies, and why are we paying all these other assholes to publish them? These people are worse than parasites, they are disease organisms. They need to go!
We've gone from "every kid gets a trophy so nobody's feelings are hurt" to "no child should be exposed to stress".
'siblings are best understood as competitors for resources'
Now, do "illegal aliens".
I have four sisters and there was 10 years between the oldest and the youngest. I was in the middle. As teens we argued (She has my jeans! That's my shirt! Who has my makeup?), but we were so close! We always had someone to play with or talk to. I lost my eldest sister three months. I cry even when speaking about her and the love she had for us younger four. We have a five sister text thread that goes back probably ten years. Now it is a four sister text thread. We text several times a day about minor and major things. As children, we never thought of each other as competing for resources or attention. We were dirt-road poor but our parents had plenty of love and attention for all of us.
Why are children now taught to be so selfish and self-centered? They carry those traits into adulthood and therefore have a hard time dealing with not being the center of attention wherever they go.
"More siblings are a source of teenage freedom. If the siblings are younger, they distract the parents. If the siblings are older, they've worn the parents out or lulled them into benign indifference."
---
There is actually something to that. The joke is the first child has their pacifier boiled when it is dropped, the second one has it rinsed with warm water, and the third child just has it wiped on their mom's jeans.
If you don't have siblings, you miss much learning about conflict resolution. I think I'm a more reasonable person than I would have been had I been an only kid, and I think my three kids are better off for having had siblings. And they agree.
“Fear of primogeniture has a real basis. It’s not all Smothers brothers jealousy. That was a real cause for immigration or joining the army. Unless you were first born you had nothing at home to lose.”
I never understood why my 5 youngest brothers had problems with primogeniture. It was the natural course of things.
“Napoleon and Wellington were both second sons, and so am I. Both surpassed their older brothers in accomplishment and fame, and so did I. (I'm #2 of 4.)”
In our family of 5 boys, the middle probably had the most accomplishments. The youngest was on track for it, until he died in a climbing accident at 21, his senior year at Dartmouth. He had just come back from a recruiting trip from the #2 and #3 EE grad schools in the country. #4 probably had the hardest time, supposedly picked on by his older brothers (the oldest 2 picked on #3 a lot more), and then treated as the deficient youngest, after his younger brother died. #2 spent his life competing with me, following me to college, same major, same graduate degrees (he did complete a MS, and I didn’t), and ultimately, the same profession (patent attorney). His biggest departure from that was joining a different fraternity, which I think was a mistake. He had HS friends. I really didn’t. They are now better friends of mine, than his. Funny world.
My partner also came from a family of five (BGGBG), and she was the middle. Oldest brother was her protector and defender. He pushed her to get out of her shell, for example by getting her to join Debate Team as his partner as well as Chess Team, and a Twirler with the Marching Band. At one point, she asked someone why no one ever asked her out, and te answer was that her big brother threatened to beat them up. And he very much could have, being built like Swartzineger, and having boxed since an early age. She used that fear a couple of times with some of the more aggressive football players. His last advice to her, dying at the same age as my brother, was to get out of her shell, and not let life pass her by. Older sister was bipolar, and my partner was her frequent target. That taught her compassion, along with a number of trips to the ER. The youngest, of course, could do no wrong. My partner babied her growing up, taking her everywhere, and probably throughout much of adulthood. They are best friends now, and it is humorous watching the younger one try to advise her older sister. We both give her a lot of slack, because she is the one who dropped everything, and moved back to Las Vegas to take are of their parents, maybe 6 years ago. Father’s now gone, but their mother remains a strain. We love er dearly.
The five of them had a stage act (that their parents didn’t know about). They were the Barefoot Five, and would play at the campgrounds, when her mother would take them on extended camping trips to get them out of the Sumer heat in Las Vegas. They would, of course, charge admission, that mostly went to sweets (that their mother otherwise ruthlessly policed). They also figured out how to charge admission after hours to the local pool. The other 4 were extroverts, like their father. She was an extreme introvert, but one of the brains behind text misdeeds. And these exploits, too, helped get her out of her shell.
My daughter was an only kid. I am pretty sure that she missed having a sibling or two. That is what most of her classmates had. She didn’t have to earn how to deal with living with peers, until she joined a sorority in college. I am pretty sure that she wants more than one kid, as a result.
“There is actually something to that. The joke is the first child has their pacifier boiled when it is dropped, the second one has it rinsed with warm water, and the third child just has it wiped on their mom's jeans.”
Of course, my mother didn’t use pacifiers, neither did the mother of my daughter (except for flying), nor did my partner with her two. When she remarried, after having even widowed, she spent the first several months breaking her youngest step kid of his security blanket. I very definitely have a type, and my mother was the model for that. Which, despite my conflicts with her, was a good thing.
But back to the point. My parents were Gestapos with me, and to a lesser extent, my next brother. We were the only ones who had to ride the bus after we turned 16. At 17, I asked for a car, and my father asked if I preferred a car, or 4 years of college, wherever I got in. I chose the latter, and ultimately was very happy with my choice, after they paid for 4 years at a small liberal arts college. My youngest brother, who could do no wrong (until he landed on his head climbing), got drunk at Prom his senior year. Everyone thought that it was hilarious. Contrast that with my experiences at that age, when I was grounded for returning home late on Friday nights (and wouldn’t have dared coming home even approaching drunk).
Life is a source of teenage stress.
Post a Comment