“This is not who we are”: The would-be guardians of America’s better angels have been scolding us with this line for years. Or maybe they mean it as an affirmation. Either way, the axiom prompts a question: Who is “we” anyway? Because it sure seems like a lot of this “we” keeps voting for Trump....
Look at the question from the other side. Why did some people feel entitled to speak for the "we" and purport to disqualify their fellow citizens as part of the "we"? Oddly, it seems that they were disincluding those they thought were insufficiently inclusive. Who's been otherizing whom?
But Leibovich doesn't proceed to try to understand Trump voters as human beings worth knowing. He just goes on to do what a writer for The Atlantic is supposed to do and bemoan those terrible deplorables.
If Trump wins in 2024, his detractors will have to reckon once again with the voters who got us here—to reconcile what it means to share a country with so many citizens who keep watching Trump spiral deeper into his moral void and still conclude, “Yes, that’s our guy.”
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It’s parental condescension through false equality.
Many parents avoid saying “Billy, don’t do that,” as it makes them seem too authoritarian.
Instead, they say “Billy, we don’t do that.” Makes it seem more like they are reminding the kid of shared values, not imposing arbitrary standards from above.
“Billy, we don’t eat spaghetti with our hands.”
“Billy, we don’t scream in the grocery store.”
“America, we don’t vote for Trump.”
Etc.
JSM
It's not difficult to understand.
Almost all voters vote "against" rather than "for". A majority of people have are realized how messed up the Leftists are and now regard their prescriptions for governing as, to say the least, the poorer choice.
A majority believe we were better off under Trump, as distasteful as they may find him personally. The Left has only themselves to blame.
When will they dump Biden and for whom? They know they have to.
I often wonder how AA would vote given a Trump - Biden re-run, after watching Biden in "action" for 3+ years.
After seeing the rampant antisemitism and calls for genocide by hundreds of people on college campuses in the last weeks, as well as the obvious lies by Biden regarding his influence peddling, the “moral void” may not be where Leibovich thinks it is.
As for me, I vote against the we
Lately it seems “we” are the people OK with killing Jews.
Non-membership has its rewards.
When Trump ran for President, Democrats acted like he invented white people, or they just discovered them. I couldn't tell which. Still can't.
Obama loved the royal we. Used it all the time to justify terrible policies. That’s who he and his handlers are…
Not to stray off topic but to go a bit meta on the multiple stories like this the past few days…I’m getting the impression the propaganda isn’t reaching the targets this time around 😐
Is the Atlantic starting to realize that demonizing half of the electorate undermines support for their favored policies of endless war? Look at the people on here who think that we are traitors and have no problem with the fact that everyone who liked a Trump tweet now has an FBI file are the same people who think we should be risking WWIII over the desire of Nazi admirers of the guy with the mustache for leibensraum in parts of Ukraine that have been fighting them for nine years.
“This is not who we are”
"we" are the people that use the FBI to wiretap political opponents
"we" are the people that use the CIA to run smear campaigns on political opponents
"we" are the people that send political opponents to prison.. for being political opponents
"we" are the people that take bribes from foreign countries, then blackmail those countries to shutup
"we" are the people that then impeach political opponents for mentioning this
THAT is who "we" are
Enjoy yourself while you can. Then shut up and vote.
The three college presidents are who we are. Alternatively, in the immortal words of Dennis Green, they are who we thought they were. Or, as the old joke goes, Tonto says “what do you mean we, kemo sabe?”
Trump would not be my first choice.
But anyone the Democrats are likely to run is my last choice.
It’s quite the power to be able to define anyone who rejects a novel morality cooked up in faculty lounges where dissenting voices are systematically removed as “amoral,” and declares that anyone who does not support the most openly corrupt senior DC politician since Agnew, and his son Uday, umm sorry, I mean Hunter, should have an FBI file opened on them,
It's a simple social media propaganda technique that attempts to rekindle fear of rejection by the popular High School peer group.
It's more commonly used in attention sucking headlines for the most banal topics imaginal.
I wonder how successful this approach actually it is. I imagine because it's constantly repeated, it must work good enough.
"Better angels of our nature". Oh, kiss off. The people who stand with gang rapists are presuming to lecture me on the fine points of morality. I don't mind them being wrong about a lot of things. Maybe I am too. What pisses me off is their bland self assurance that not only are they smarter but they also live on a higher moral plateau than us Trump voters. There on Epstein's Orgy Isle, after doing a few lines, they assembled like the College of Cardinals and decided that Trump and his voters needed to be marginalized and prosecuted to the full extent of the law. And so it has come to pass. They're fulfilling the will of God.
As I recall, the first person to utter the "that's not who we are" phrase was Barack the Magnificent. It was the was opening salvo in the divisive war he initiated. "We against them". And then came the deplorables comment (Hillary). Followed by the great uniter, Joe Biden, who put any and all political opponents in the slammer.
Speaking of uniting the nation, when the Jews scatter for protection, in the United States no less, this Commie-Pinko uniting thingy has proven to be a house cards.
If you voted, or plan to vote for, Joe “Loaded Diaper” Biden you have absolutely zero credibility in criticizing Trump voters.
...citizens who keep watching Trump spiral deeper into his moral void...
To what moral void does the author refer? Since Trump left office, we've learned that Hunter Biden is debauched, Biden is corrupt, social and corporate media worked for the Progressives and the FBI is a political weapon.
Late Night Shows pretend Trump voters aren't their fellow citizens.
CNN and MSNBC pretend Trump voters aren't their fellow citizens.
The View pretends no woman supports Trump.
Arrogance = ignorance + pride
Pride leads to destruction, and arrogance to downfall.
https://biblehub.com/gnt/proverbs/16.htm
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xBWmkwaTQ0k
I'm a proud member of the They. Also looking into joining them and those.
Just astonishing to me how that moral compass seems not to work when viewing people on the left. It's actually not a compass at all. Just a fixed pointer, always pointing away from themselves.
"There's no place here" for the idiom "that's not who we are."
At least now it's pretty clear who the "we" are in the immortal words prophesied by the Light Bringer, "We are the ones we've been waiting for." Yup, we see you now.
The writer has obviously never taken Cromwell's advice: "I beseech you, in the bowels of Christ, think it possible that you may be mistaken."
"Oddly, it seems that they were disincluding those they thought were insufficiently inclusive. Who's been otherizing whom?"
I know what you mean, but there's nothing odd about it: it's been prog MO for years. Of course, progs do the otherizing. But it's not the fact that they do: it's that they do it blithely, arrogantly, self-satisfiedly, unreflectively, with impunity. Not only is the other other, the other doesn't count. And they're right, usually. Even the support for Trump cannot break their habit.
But it would actually serve progs, sensible progs, to take the Trump support seriously. Speaking as just one deplorable, I'd prefer anyone resembling Trump over Trump, but I am a confirmed anti-anti-Trumper, and on the existential issue facing the country, the southern invasion, even an ineffective Trump is better than the actively subversive Biden.
All the criticism of Trump is vague. His moral void. His mean tweets. He is racist and misogynist (with no examples). He is apparently antisemitic even though he has Jewish family members he adores and moved our embassy to Jerusalem.
I'd rather not vote for Trump again because I think he is too old for the job. But if is Trump vs. Biden or Gavin then he will have my enthusiastic vote.
The title “This Is Us” just meant “This Is Who Your Betters Think You Should Be.”
Once you see this stuff, you can’t unsee it. Donald Trump made it obvious what they are doing, which is why he is so hated by them.
Imagine a world where Joe Biden had not sent that letter to Ukraine promising them NATO membership despite the fact that every senior Russian, even Gorbachev, said that that would mean war. Imagine a world in which the US president had picked up the phone to talk to Putin when those troops were on the border. Trump said “I thought he was negotiating,” while Biden invited him in with his “minor incursion” comment, but refused to negotiate at all. Biden wanted this war, and so he provoked it.
Thank God that that we are not who Atlantic writers and readers are.
...if you can stand listening to it for ~11 minutes, this is your tax-supported, "fact based" journalism from NPR this morning:
https://www.npr.org/2023/12/10/1198909470/consider-this-from-npr-draft-12-10-2023
Yet it is President Biden who, we read this morning, is circumventing Congress to send $1M+ worth of tank weapons & support to Ukraine, drawing it down from our own inventory. ...which must then needs replacement....
https://www.npr.org/2023/12/09/1218407156/israel-tank-ammunition-sale-gaza-congress-state-department
Is Leibovich my countryman?
My answer is, "No, he is not." I wouldn't cross the street to piss on him if he were on fire.
Illegal immigration. Period.
Calling Trump, and by extension his supporters, names rather than engaging with his policies is not going to convert anybody. When it occurs in the Liberal media it is preaching to the choir. It is not an effective strategy.
'If Trump wins in 2024, his detractors will have to reckon once again with the voters who got us here—to reconcile what it means to share a country with so many citizens who keep watching Trump spiral deeper into his moral void and still conclude, “Yes, that’s our guy.”'
They're called people, neighbors, citizens.
Conservatives are like the Michael Douglas character in 'Falling Down,' just unwilling to take any more bullshit.
Btw, 'Not who we are' is right up there with 'Our democracy' and 'My truth' as one of the stupidest phrases in the English language.
I will roll out an alternate attack upon anti-Trumpists, one they originated way back in 2001 to stop criticism of Islam after 9/11. It is neither logical nor effective, but still fun as a thought experiment. here it goes:
The Left in general, and Democrats voting against Trump, should ask themselves where THEY went wrong, what THEY are currently doing so badly, that causes Trump supporters to hate them so much. Because there must be a reason Trumpists are anti-Left, right? Look inward, Democrats, at your corruption of government, and seek therein the reason we hate you. And fix yourselves.
So much of what the "Smart" elite Press has written about Trump and is supporters has been obviously untrue and often stupid. They obviously hate Trump and his voters for reasons not being stated.
Maybe one day they will be honest and tell us.
Who are the "we" who say "That's not who we are"?"
They're the ones who don't see anything wrong with a president who takes bribes to enrich himself and his family.
Althouse wrote: "But Leibovich doesn't proceed to try to understand Trump voters as human beings worth knowing..."
I am genuinely curious; what is it that someone like me -- a lifelong Republican who views Trump as unfit for office and who views Trump supporters with derision -- needs to understand about Trump voters? I am willing to listen, as long as it is a purely fact-based discussion.
I expect that it boils down to, "Trump voters have feelings that you need to respect." And yet there is THIS.
"That's not who we are." "We're better than that." "Wrong side of history." "Our democracy."
Phrases that should be beheaded and incinerated.
Speaking of moral voids, an inability to condemn the October 7 massacre and rapes comes to my mind before anything Trump has said or done.
"I am willing to listen, as long as it is a purely fact-based discussion."
I don't believe you any further than I can spit, but I have two minutes to spare.
"I am genuinely curious;…
No you aren't. You're just looking for an argument.
…what is it that someone like me -- a lifelong Republican who views Trump as unfit for office and who views Trump supporters with derision -- needs to understand about Trump voters? I am willing to listen, as long as it is a purely fact-based discussion."
That a lot of us are voting on policy. Trump was President for 4 years. During his term, the US economy hummed, providing benefits especially to the lower-income population. That Trump secured the southern border; an area that has become a dangerous debacle under Biden. (As an aside, how do you explain the reason Biden has opened the border?). That Trump led the US to energy independence (and didn't set us on the road to ruin as Biden has done with his "renewable energy" program). That Trump's foreign policy got us into no wars, contained North Korea and China, the Abraham Accords, holding NATO governments to their obligations. There's more, but I've already exceeded my two minutes.
You dismiss the possibility that tens of millions of voters have made a considered choice as to what is better for our country because some guy with a flag hurts your feelings.
The Lone Ranger and Tonto are out in the Great Plains traveling. A raiding party of bloodthirsty Comanche Indians (and that tribe was bloodthirsty and cruel) come in to view, and it looks like they are going to attack the Lone Ranger and his "faithful Indian Companion".
The Lone Ranger turns to Tonto and asks, "What are we doing to do?"
Tonto replies, "What you mean "we" Paleface?"
Whenever that blithering idiot Barack Obama leaned down from his platitudinous (but also pompous) pulpit to intone, "That's not who we are.", I'd always think, "What you mean "we" you silly bozo>"
If Trump does win next November, I am going to spend the 50 months pointing out to all the anti-Trumpers that they could have been rid of Trump in January 2025 if only they hadn't fucked around with the 2020 election.
Why must I identity with the subject if my vote? I am merely selecting that person to do a job. I am hiring that individual based on criteria that have meaning to me. The elected official is not a reflection of my character, but rather, a vision of the performance that I expect.
I hate my son in law with the heated passion of one thousand suns. If i thought he could deliver on the political issues I care about, no earthly force could stop me from voting for him.
My lovely wife voted for the current incumbent president. I do not think she is a blithering, doltish, corrupt pedophile like him.
I am genuinely curious; what is it that someone like me -- a lifelong Republican who views Trump as unfit for office and who views Trump supporters with derision -- needs to understand about Trump voters? I am willing to listen, as long as it is a purely fact-based discussion.
No you aren't. You have a caricature in your head that has nothing to do with most Trump voters.Inflation is visible to everyone. Energy independence is easy to see. We have transferred our manufacturing capacity to China. That began with Clinton and has continued. If Biden stumbles us into war, like Franz Joseph did in 1914, we will lose it. Ukraine will be a big factor.
Gosh I wish the Republican Party could come up with a better candidate than Trump! I don't know who it might be, because none of the folks in the race seem to have ANY appeal to the electorate. I don't know if it's a Democrat plot.
No, if the Democrats really were able to put such a plot in place, surely they'd dump Biden in favor of SOMEONE. Anyone?
Why did some people feel entitled to speak for the "we" and purport to disqualify their fellow citizens as part of the "we"?
Because "we" are us, the good guys, and "they" are the bad guys. Obviously.
"Gosh I wish the Republican Party could come up with a ... [candidate that the Democrat-controlled press would not demonize or twist his or her words constantly, that would be so swell.]
Michael K said...
I am genuinely curious; what is it that someone like me -- a lifelong Republican who views Trump as unfit for office and who views Trump supporters with derision -- needs to understand about Trump voters? I am willing to listen, as long as it is a purely fact-based discussion.
No you aren't. You have a caricature in your head that has nothing to do with most Trump voters.Inflation is visible to everyone. Energy independence is easy to see. We have transferred our manufacturing capacity to China. That began with Clinton and has continued. If Biden stumbles us into war, like Franz Joseph did in 1914, we will lose it. Ukraine will be a big factor.
The one and only thing I demanded of you was a fact-based discussion.
World inflation has been a nasty problem, post-COVID and post-Ukraine war. In almost any other Western economy you can think of, inflation has been much, much worse than in the U.S. You cannot possibly be so stupid as to believe that the inflation -- much worse than U.S. inflation -- in Italy, Germany, France, Turkey; the OECD average; is due to something President Biden did or didn't do. And with recent trends, what the Biden Administration is doing is moderating U.S. inflation considerably.
"Energy independence" isn't a thing. We have never been "energy independent in any meaningful sense. We were a net-exporter of crude oil for just one year of the Trump Administration. And yet we have for decades been a net energy exporter when all forms including natural gas are included. We aren't "independent" and never will be inasmuch as there are particular oil products that we have always imported and always will. We are producing more natural gas in 2023 than ever before, including the Trump years. The federal government doesn't produce crude oil, but we are right now producing more crude oil in the U.S. than in any month of the Trump Administration. And we as a country aare using less gasoline than the pre-COVID Trump years. If "energy independence" takes account of clean energy production (rising faster than ever in the U.S.) and decreased usage by U.S. consumers, we're doing great in moving toward whatever you might think of as "independence."
U.S. manufacturing output is projected at $2.49713 Billion for 2023 and it's close to a record setting pace. Dampened slightly by the auto strikes in October. By any manufacturing measure you like, we are doing very well.
And Biden's handling of Ukraine has been masterful. While Trump wanted to blow up NATO (as Putin hoped he would), Biden has firmed NATO solidarity and support for Ukraine. We've got plenty of Republicans in Washington who privately loathe Trump and who know how critical our support of Ukraine is to world stability, who will support Ukraine.
I'm hoping that 2024 is going to be a colossally bad year for you.
Original Mike said...
...
That a lot of us are voting on policy.
...
Oh fuck that. If the Trumpettes cared about "policy," there might have been an actual Republican Platform in 2020. They never even tried.
There's no Trump health care reform plan. There's never been one. It's always two weeks a way, right?
There's no Trump plan on inflation; as if there could be.
There's no serious plan for a border wall. Mexico isn't paying for it.
You must remember this Trump confession; where Trump in a speech remarked that when he talks about tax cuts, he gets a weak and barely audible golf clap. And when he talks about "transgender," the crowds all roar. Trump recognized the phenomenon. He laughed at the fact that "five years ago, you didn't know what [transgender] was."
You don't care about conservative policy. I mean, maybe you do; but as a Trump supporter, it isn't a consideration. Trump supporters are in it for the hate. For the aggression. Aggression against nonwhites; against immigrants; against marginalized minority groups. The Republican House isn't advancing any conservative legislation. They are performing culture war stunts and trying to impeach Hunter Biden's laptop.
And you're going to get Trump as a nominee in 2024. Because Republicans are now all hung up on Trump and Trump's social grievances. They aren't even talking about policy. You could have had traditional conservative Republican policy with Liz Cheney, Adam Kinzinger, Mitt Romney, Fred Upton, Jeff Flake, Bob Corker, Paul Ryan, et cetera. But that isn't what you wanted. You wanted Trumpism.
The point is, Chuck, we have a difference of opinion over policy. For that, you hate us. You're quite the guy.
"The one and only thing I demanded of you was a fact-based discussion."
Why? You've never dealt honestly before.
You wait a few months and then come back thinking we've forgotten about you?
Just go away.
You could have had traditional conservative Republican policy with Liz Cheney, Adam Kinzinger, Mitt Romney, Fred Upton, Jeff Flake, Bob Corker, Paul Ryan...
Oh now that's funny. Because I can't believe that any traditional right-winger, whether a social or fiscal conservative, could any longer support those clowns based on their track records of what policies they support, I'm forced to conclude that "Chuck" is a Democrat simping as "Republican".
Either that or just an apolitical troll who is here for shits and giggles.
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