The war is such a disaster that it seems puny to say what a disaster for Biden. But this is the top story at the NYT right now. It's a new poll, and the results are stark.
On the up side, since there is no position that will please the disparate factions, Biden may find his most opportune political position is to do what he believes is right. Does he know what that is?
ADDED: Some excerpts:
Nearly three quarters of [voters between 18 and 29 years old] disapprove of the way Mr. Biden is handling the conflict in Gaza. And among registered voters, they say they would vote for Mr. Trump by 49 percent to 43 percent — in July, those young voters backed Mr. Biden by 10 percentage points....
Most young voters... responded to question after question with answers showing that they see the worst in Israel. Few of them believe Israelis are serious about peace with the Palestinians. Nearly half say Israel is intentionally killing civilians. Nearly three-fourths say Israel is not taking enough precautions to avoid civilian casualties. And a majority oppose additional economic and military aid to Israel.
The broader electorate, by contrast, takes a much more pro-Israel view....
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134 comments:
What HE believes is right?
Is that even an option? Does he have any clue what is right or is he [as many suspect] simply a front mannequin for those that are actually in charge? Obama/China/"deep state"/"whom ever dangles the largest bribe"/all of the above, who knows?!?
All wars are disasters until they aren't. The Israeli Arab situation has been a disaster for 75-years. The question is, do you hate Biden more than Hamas? If Hamas wins, will you be happy because you want Biden to fail?
It takes to intestinal fortitude to continue to support allies when the situation is most dire.
All the talk of Biden releasing $6B to Iran, which presumably helped to fund or encourage the Oct 7 attacks, has gone by the wayside. Did that additional $10B go to Iran as well? Biden seems to be funding both sides of this war, literally. Does this factor in the poll results?
The bad. Wes is that it is typical for Biden, when presented with a choice between right and wrong, will choose wrong every time.
The clearest example is the border. His open door policy is clearly a disaster and is very unpopular and yet, he persists.
"Biden may find his most opportune political position is to do what he believes is right."
If it benefits Old Joe then that's what selfish Old Joe believes. He's operated on that principle his entire good-for-nothing life.
Israel for its part should follow the age-old advice, voiced famously by McArthur, "There is no substitute for victory." The left proclaims BAMN - by any means necessary. Israel, take that as an instruction.
Don't say that word, 'Right'.
Yahbut…one of those polls where the ‘poles’ seem to agree yet are polar opposites. Not doing enough leftie/doing too much leftie…
…and kind of irrelevant what/if Biden thinks. If you haven’t figured that out by now…
Israel is going to have some serious cultural and perception issues among their 'allies' to overcome in the coming decades. They might even have to start being militarily and financially independent from the USA [gasp].
Ya hear that Israel? You might not want to count on US assistance past 2050. The kids are planning to spend that money on taxpayer funded sex changes, concentration camps for white people, and free housing and green cards for gimmigrants.
If you work fast now you might be able to keep your place in line. Chop chop.
The war is going well. Hamas's tunnels are being destroyed.
Few issues recently have such a young old divide like this one. It doesn’t surprise me that the young side is ostensibly agitating for “peace” but I am shocked that both sides have major cohorts that insist their opponents are pro-genocide. In fact majorities of both sides are 100% certain that the other side is pro-genocide!
Biden may find his most opportune political position is to do what he believes is right. Does he know what that is?
Silly, silly woman. It’s whoever can pay him the most.
If Biden had made the difficult choices to do what was right in the past instead of pandering to his base, he who have the credibility and political capital to do what is right on Gaza.
Right? He must have a vague nose for the honey jar. But I think he is well past “right”
...the divide is starkest among older and younger generations
By the time the liberal indoctrinated Generation Z takes over running the country, I'll more than likely be dead.
If not, they'll probably send us elderly out into the woods to die sitting in a tree, Indian style. What do these young Americans think a Hamas victory looks like?
Let's give a big hand to the female dominated education establishment for completely messing up America's youth. Bravo!!!
I'd like to see Israel achieve a definitive victory. I'd also like to sprout gossamer wings so I wouldn't have to travel by subway.....Too much of a definitive victory for Israel might, in fact, undermine its strategic position. Israel is dependent upon its alliance with America. Too many images of wounded or grieving children in Gaza will serve to subvert that alliance.....I wish there was some kind of organized movement in Gaza that wished to spend the aide they receive towards things like potable water and electricity rather than tunnels and rockets, but it doesn't seem to be happening....I don't know what Israel should do. Biden looks befuddled. Whatever the issue, that's how he looks, but in this case there is genuine cause for befuddlement....When in doubt, kill the enemy is a basic response in confusing situations, but it doesn't always work--but neither does it always fail.
Netanyahu is an albatross around Biden’s neck. The problem with Biden’s so-called ‘bearhug strategy’ is that he has no veto on Netanyahu’s actions. Were it not for the discredited Netanyahu, Biden’s two state strategy would be reasonable.
The global realignment continues. Biden's generation likely doesn't have the mental capacity or flexibility to adapt to changing times. They'll ride their old hobby horses back and forth but go nowhere until they die.
The left and the right are splitting into new factions, neither "left" nor "right" by the old standards. Let Liz Cheney and Mitt Romney join the new left. Let all pro-Israel Jews join the new right. Let the totalitarians -- be they Woke or Islamic -- join the new left. Let the bohemians and white-liberals-in-exile-merely-for-being-white join the new right.
I thought that a couple of aircraft carriers would fix the problem. Remember though, that the petroleum supply lines to the West are extremely vulnerable and that Joe Biden already emptied a large portion of the Strategic Petroleum Reserve to keep gas prices low for the mid-terms. But the US does not negotiate with terrorists and a terrorist is defined as anybody who opposes the will of the United States. Joe Biden could not beat a chicken at a game of checkers.
It’s amazing how our media can get us baying for blood.
I don’t remember “younger voters” ever attracting the attention of the mainstream press like they are today.
What’s really going on here?
Biden's only hope is to articulate a clear position, well defended and explained.
So no, there is no hope.
"The war is such a disaster"
Do you mean this as a statement about the respondents' views, or as your own judgment?
If the latter, how so? The IDF is gradually but thoroughly defeating Hamas and destroying its infrastructure. That is a success. Even if Israel can't crush Gazans' will to fight, it will have crushed their ability for a generation. The PA and the West Bank are on notice.
Of course, Israel being (mostly) Jewish, the world will still try to make it lose its victory, but that remains to be seen.
So far Egypt and Jordan and Saudi Arabia have been pretty quiet. They don't like the Palestinians either, and they correctly perceive Israel as fighting Iran by proxy.
Biden may find his most opportune political position is to do what he believes is right
Really? So, YOU are saying that Biden should let them bribe him? Which side? Both sides?
I suspect Biden and his inner circle have been surprised by this generational hostility towards Israel and the seemingly blind allegiance to viewing the Palestinians and their protector, Hamas, as the sympathetic victims.
And if the US abandons its alliance with Israel, what happens? Israel just goes with China/Russia, who will be thrilled to get access to Israeli high-tech military technology as well as military control of the Eastern Mediterranean.
"Most young voters... responded to question after question with answers showing that they see the worst in Israel."
What exactly has Biden done that's positive? As noted above, this all begins with Biden releasing $6 billion to Iran. Then Iranian backed Hamas attacks Jewish citizens from various countries that were partying for peace. The attack was intended to reignite a war in the Middle East. This was followed by Iranian backed Houthis firing ballistic missiles into Israel and attacking shipping transiting the Suez Canal and the Red Sea.
The only two things I've seen Biden do is supposedly "brokered a ceasefire" (I don't think he had much to do about it), that ended as expected with Hamas violating it several times. And the US Navy providing some support to shipping in the Red Sea, which is the largest contribution I can truly credit to Biden, except I haven't seen him saying much about it.
That's before we get into much of the Democratic young base being opposed to Israel as a nation. If you are one of those people, then perhaps you support Biden's funding of Iran, but you are pissed he isn't doing anything to stop Israel.
Personally, I miss the relative global peace we had during the 4 years of Trump.
The generation that wants to jail people for using the 'wrong' pronoun is fine with actual terrorism.
Very curious.
Well said rehajm at 7:31. Concise and astute.
Biden seems lost. He makes these declarative statements then staff need to scramble to explain, retract or otherwise spin whatever came out of hos mouth.
I think that's what bugging Americans the most, this sense that we have a suboptimal leadership team in the White House.
I've said before if I've said it a thousand times - liberal, secular, atheist, NYC Jews have been making a serious mistake for 70 years. Their pathological liberalism, hatred for Anglo-Saxon Protestants, and unquestioning loyalty to the democratic party will make them and their descendants politically and culturally isolated in the USA by 2050.
The democratic party isn't becoming a homosexual/feminist anti-white alliance, it already is one, and Jews - no matter how liberal they are - will not be allowed a seat at the table. Neither will large numbers of conservative 'white kids'...they're catching on to the scam too.
You'd think they'd move to Israel, but most don't realize they're not welcome there either (Israeli Sabras hate them too). They have fucked up good and proper, and not just for themselves, but for Judaism worldwide. Great job you idiots.
My sense is that Biden is trying to thread a middle ground where he appears to support both sides of the conflict. He was first elected to the US Senate in 1972, so you’d think that after 51 years he’d know better than to try to keep both sides happy. On one level, he wants to keep the young activists happy, despite their antisemitism. On the other hand, can he afford to have wealthy American Jews closing their wallets with an election coming up? If he hadn’t lost touch with the common man he’d know to slap down the spoiled brats with their infantile “demands” and their riots. But he has lost touch, so that’s that.
IMHO he’s lost the opportunity to be an honest broker, so now he’s stuck.
And where did those voters between 18 and 29 years old get the information necessary to disapprove of the way Mr. Biden is handling the conflict in Gaza.?
I already have little confidence in "news" as delivered by the popular press and less in the value of opinions shaped by that "news." And now that same popular press is reporting on those opinions. Oy!
Gen Z is the endgame of fifty years of literal domestic terrorists taking over K-12 and university education. They're ignorant, fanatical, nascent fascists.
It's going to get a lot worse. Nearly every member of a leftist terrorist group who wasn't killed, including those pardoned by Clinton and Obama, either became influential professors "transforming education" or took over the teaching schools at the highest level -- as national curricular leaders who dictated what was taught to future teachers of Gen X children.
This should come as a surprise to no-one. People in the profession have been raising the alarm since the 1980s.
Biden has already said what he thinks of the war in the Middle East: nothing. But the majority of his Party has made it clear that they are siding with the murderous anti-Semites. And so, having said nothing, that is what Biden stands for.
35 is the minimum age for President for a reason.
“Let's give a big hand to the female dominated education establishment for completely messing up America's youth. Bravo!!!”
Bears repeating
Sleepy Joe has been wrong about every foreign policy issue since he entered American politics in 1973. So the odds aren't good.
What do these young Americans think a Hamas victory looks like?
Justice. They think it looks like Justice.
They don't see - yet - that what it really looks like is a giant step backwards for development, peace, and prosperity in a largely benighted region, nor do they see that Muslims in the Holy Land didn't originate there whereas Jews inarguably did.
“It takes to intestinal fortitude to continue to support allies when the situation is most dire.”
Whatever it takes to not undermine and backstab your professed ally, while talking out of both sides of your mouth appears to be lacking with this bunch.
If I remember Tik Toc propaganda explains the difference. Old people don’t get the same videos as the young.
He has been trying to maintain an image of supporting Israel while simultaneously arguing that it needs to restrain itself to help "the Palestinians," while also promising aid to "the Palestinians," plus potentially even more money to Hamas' sponsor, Iran.
By this, he is hoping to placate both Israel supporters and supporters of "the Palestinians."
What's right? Apparently, it is trying to keep votes for him from both sides. What could be more right?
"Biden may find his most opportune political position is to do what he believes is right."
I think it's hilarious...and sad...that you think that potted plant is in charge of anything.
well young people were for the nuclear freeze, and before then for a North Vietnamese victory, but that's not that surprising,
Eventually most young voters grow up and become older voters, some of them may actually grow up one day and stop seeing the world through a child's eyes.
Or not.
Obama said to never underestimate Biden's ability to F things up.
Now Biden has a choice to make. Either could F things up. What would a (not that kind of) Doctor do?
remember the chief CIA analyst, miss mclaughlin was for hamas, like John 'al Quds' Brennan was before him, Blinken seems to be senior wences to Malley, a name that doesnt seem to come up
Yes I hate Biden and his cronies more than Hamas. At least Hamas considers me an American.
The Biden Administration is already in the process of the cutting the Israelis loose. The problem for Biden, however, is I don't think Netanyahu gives a flying **** what Biden does or does not want any longer. What Israel has been saying for 2 months now is something that cannot be done in 3 months, and will take a year or more even if it is possible at all- completely demilitarizing Gaza and killing Hamas. There was never any chance Biden etal. would be able to hold firm that long, so it is likely the Israelis were never counting on it.
Just a quick point concerning the younger generation. My daughter and son are polar opposites politically. My daughter falls into the BLM/America bad camp. My son falls into taxation is theft, leave me the hell alone camp. However, they both agree Hamas needs to unconditionally surrender, not because they have any love towards Israel, but because they recognize barbarism when they see it.
So, do not be so sure this poll has anything to say at all.
Howard, give up the flaccid strawman argument. It just makes you look foolish.
There has come a point where a near absolute victory over Hamas will provide for both Israel and the Gazans the most positive future, compared to ceasefire negotiated with genocidal Hamas.
Just turn a deaf ear to the pro-Hamas useful idiots. Their jackass braying will be loudest just before Hamas is destroyed, and is only noise.
There has come a point where a near absolute victory over Hamas will provide for both Israel and the Gazans the most positive future, compared to ceasefire negotiated with genocidal Hamas.
Just turn a deaf ear to the pro-Hamas useful idiots. Their jackass braying will be loudest just before Hamas is destroyed, and is only noise.
Does anyone actually believe Joe Biden has any principles he stands and fights for? This is just the result of creating a political coalition of grievances based on race.
White liberals, particularly young ones, identify with browner palestinians and simply ignore the atrocities they have committed against "White" jews. You can see the regime buckle under the strain of the contradictions and it will only get worse with time.
Hamas are terrorists. the fact that masses of indoctrinated leftist a-holes and morons think otherwise - pure insanity.
They actually want Death to America. guess what a-holes - they are going to kill you, too.
"The broader electorate, by contrast, takes a much more pro-Israel view"
In other words, a dumber and more ignorant view. "Them thar Jews are the Chosen people, why Jesus was a Jew".
Everything the 18-24 year olds are saying is true. Isreal is killing innocent Arab civilians (death toll now approaching 20,000) and committing genocide and ethnic cleansing. They've been bombing Hospitals, Churches, and Apartment buildings. The Pope recently condemned the Israeli killing 2 Christian woman (by sniper fire) coming out of Gaza Church.
But the dumb Boomers support that, no doubt. "Yee haw, them thar A-rab christians deserved to die. They got it comin'."
All this can be laid at the feet of Genocide Joe and his DC Supporters in congress. We could stop Israel tommorrow if we wanted. They're doing this killing with USA money and USA Bombs.
"Biden may find his most opportune political position is to do what he believes is right. Does he know what that is?"
Perhaps, but since he has never done it before it may prove difficult.
As for the nitwits who think Israel doesn't want peace. They may be right now. Israel may not want peace without destroying Hamas, but historically it has been the Palestinians who have breached the peace time and again.
Pro-Palestinian ignorance levels show Israel has lost the agitprop war. The intensity of hate for Israel displays not only antisemitism, but warped values.
Terrorism is okay? Really?
2024 will be interesting...
Non-zero chance Iran and China see a non-Biden as President of USA after Jan 2025. Both, being as smart as they are evil, see it as their best chance to make big moves on Israel, Taiwan, Philippines, maybe even Saudi. Maybe in coordination.
Biden will make all sorts of throat-clearing noises, as he has since Oct 7, but put his thumb on the scale on the side of his paymasters.
Buckle up.
Well Obama was a blight on the nation. But one thing Obama was right about--"Never underestimate Joe Biden's ability to @#$ things up!"
As it was in the beginning,it is now and ever shall be--Biden makes things worse.
1 Corinthinians 13:11: "When I was a child, I spoke like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I gave up childish ways."
Any further comment about the left, our young and the state of the nation writes itself, doesn't it.
Jim Geraghty thinks the NYT buried the lede, again
If the Israeli war against Hamas ended tomorrow, Biden’s numbers would still be lousy. In fact, one of the ways we know this is from the Times’ own poll, which offered respondents an open-ended question: “What do you think is the MOST important problem facing the country today?” Respondents were not given a list of options; they answered with the first problem that came to mind. Take a moment to think about how you would answer that question if the Times pollster called up and asked you.
Guess how many people answered, “The Middle East/Israel/Palestinians”?
One percent.
There isn’t even much evidence that this is a big deal among younger voters. Among voters ages 18 to 29, just 3 percent answered that the most important problem facing the country was “the Middle East/Israel/Palestinians.” The Times poll had 179 respondents in the demographic from 18 to 29, so that means about five or six people in the entire poll were considered young voters and prioritized the Middle East as the most important problem facing the country.
Compare that to the 26 percent of self-identified Hispanics who answered, “the economy.” Or the 19 percent of those in the age groups from 18 to 29 and 30 to 44 who answered “inflation/cost of living.” Or the 15 percent of those age 65 and older who answered, “immigration.”
The entire article is framed as Biden facing a crisis among young voters who are abandoning him, but deep in the article, in the 32nd paragraph, the Times concedes that many of those who were old enough to vote last cycle didn’t vote...
The war isn’t a disaster. The rules of engagement imposed on Israel by Biden and the West are the disaster. If the IDF weren’t handcuffed, this would already be over.
I think we need to find a very rich person, and get them to give Joe Beiden $1, 000,000 every time he does something that makes sense, that would be in alignment with his political history. The right carrot for the right piece of wood.
How to win an argument if you are a progressive hive-minder.
Does anyone actually believe Joe Biden has any principles he stands and fights for?
Short answer: No.
Long answer: Fuck no.
I want the war to end and I want Israel to win decisively.
The two can be reconciled.
Anybody notice that Turkey left NATO and wants to ally with Russia to attack Jerusalem before Jared Kushner’s ABRAHAMIC accords actually create peace on earth. This SNAFU the result of Joe Biden’s Presidency.
The George Floyd moment wasn’t simply an American phenomenon it was a social media phenomenon. What we are witnessing globally in reaction to the horrors in Gaza could likewise be shown as the same thing. Just as America is influencing the world so the world is influencing America. The rise in pro Palestine solidarity, secularism, interest in other countries and cultures etc… this is all happening in the US due to the internet and social media
Gk1 said...
"White liberals, particularly young ones, identify with 'browner' Palestinians and simply ignore the atrocities they have committed against 'White' Jews."
Genetic studies have shown that the majority of Jews and majority of Palestinians both share basically the same DNA. I bet if you averaged out the skin tone of both groups, the Jews would average out somewhat darker than the Palestinians.
The coalition that elected Biden is divided, and Biden's handlers have responded by creating two sets of contradictory messages. The problem is that each faction sees the messages that are going to the other faction. The result is an even further loss of credibility for this utterly amoral administration.
Btw, the poll results of registered voters probably exaggerate Trump's advantage. I suspect that the Dems are stronger among likely voters in this vote harvesting era.
Were it not for the discredited Netanyahu, Biden’s two state strategy would be reasonable.
You think Netanyahu is the greatest obstacle to a two-state solution?
Given the instincts of Brandon, I foresee a Solomonic solution--splitting the baby--without Solomon's bluff.
As we are seeing, half-ass can sometimes work in the short run domestically, but it is guaranteed disaster in foreign policy. Now that everyone --enemies and allies-- sees how corrupt and weak Biden is, Americans will be shocked of how quickly things come undone next year.
Remember when the liberated, liberal Iranian college students joined forces with the Ayatollah to depose the Shah?
This is just that, again. The upperclassmen Iranians who managed to escape -- especially the women, could teach these brats a thing or two about lying down with dogs.
Keep in Mind.. young college "educated" kids march with signs saying:
"Queers For Free Palestine"
There is an Old English word for that, which is defined as a:
"process of indoctrination in which subjects are expected to simultaneously accept two conflicting beliefs as truth, often at odds with their own memory or sense of reality"
Once you accept, that 1984 was (and IS) and INSTRUCTION MANUAL.. It ALL makes sense
2+2= racism
Ignorance is Strength
Freedom is Slavery
War is Peace
The only thing that is missing is cannabis gummy bears.. But, that is Another Story
Anyone who doesn't support Israel killing 20,000 innocent men women and kids is an antisemite.
Anyone who doesn't favor open borders and unlimited immigration is a racist
Anyone who doesn't support the War in the ukraine is a Russian agent or Putin supporter
Anyone who doesn't support DoJ's prosecution of Trump is an Authoritarian
Anyone who think J6ers are being unfairly treated is an Insurrectionist
Anyone who Protested the 2020 vote is a conspiracy nut or hates Democracy.
These are the GOPe/Liberal/left "arguements" supporting their positions. My way or the highway. My way or you're a bad person. that's it.
"Biden may find his most opportune political position is to do what he believes is expedient. Does he know what that is?"
Either way, I doubt he does.
RideSpaceMountain misses a trick, when he said...
- liberal, secular, atheist, NYC Jews have been making a serious mistake for 70 years. Their pathological liberalism, hatred for Anglo-Saxon Protestants, and unquestioning loyalty to the democratic party will make them and their descendants politically and culturally isolated in the USA by 2050.
liberal, secular, atheist, NYC Jews aren't having descendants any more than other liberal, secular, atheists.
The Future belongs to those who show up. That is NOT going to be liberal, secular, atheists
Those people are committing genetic suicide
Were it not for the discredited Netanyahu, Biden’s two state strategy would be reasonable.
You keep saying that Rich, but where is the evidence for your claim?
Of the organizations "representing" Palestinians (PLO, PA, Hamas, PIJ) only the Palestinian Authority has ever made a gesture towards "accepting" the two-state solution, and it is almost 100% certain it was Taqiyya, a well-known Islamic negotiating technique, what Sun Tsu calls using deception for tactical advantage. Mahmoud Abbas, PA president, literally told the leaders of Hamas to tell Israel what they want to hear "and they will believe you."
But no Palestinian organization has ever really endorsed the two-state solution, because they don't believe in it. "From the river to the sea" is their solution. They have literally turned down hundreds of opportunities to have their own state, but they cannot abide the continuation of the State of Israel no matter how the borders are drawn.
So why do you keep repeating the provable lie that "if only" for this or that or those guys "we would have a two state solution"? Where is your evidence other than "Biden proposed it"?
genetic suicide.. that's THE WHOLE POINT of gender affirming care for young girls.. Isn't it?
Does anyone actually believe Joe Biden has any principles he stands and fights for?
No. If MAGA is fur it Joe is agin it. Otherwise he is a standard issue tax and spend progressive carrying out Obama's third term as he was told to. Even his family man image is fake as hell as evidenced by how coldly they treated the 6th grandchild. She couldn't even rate a sniff!
Israel may need to prepare for a future without US aid. Israel is a prosperous country (the Palestinians should reflect upon why that is). To what extent does Israel need US aid?
"Nearly three quarters of [voters between 18 and 29 years old] disapprove of the way Mr. Biden is handling the conflict in Gaza. And among registered voters, they say they would vote for Mr. Trump by 49 percent to 43 percent — in July, those young voters backed Mr. Biden by 10 percentage points...."
Not so much a vote for Trump, as a vote against Biden.
Similar situation got Trump elected the first time.
"I am shocked that both sides have major cohorts that insist their opponents are pro-genocide. In fact majorities of both sides are 100% certain that the other side is pro-genocide!"
Why shocked? I'm shocked you're shocked. This is true in every violent conflict: all sides see themselves as the injured/righteous party, each as the humane, peace-loving party fighting only in necessary self-defense against--or to free themselves from tyrannical oppression imposed by--their enemy, who are seen as amoral genocidal murderers by definition. (If and when the governments of the warring parties have a more knowing view, they will always insist publicly to their respective populations "we are good, they are bad.")
In some conflicts, the beliefs of the people that they are the righteous party and the other(s) the evil butchers may be more or less well-founded and correct, and other times woefully deluded, but most of the time such distinctions are wrong from the start or cannot be sustained as all sides resort to ever more brutal and indiscriminate violence.
meanwhile.. Our borders are WIDE OPEN, and our Army is evaporating
As the United States military missed its recruiting goals for 2023 by a combined 41,000 personnel, and the National Defense Authorization Act (NDAA) reduced its force size to 1,284,500 personnel, military strength is set to hit its lowest levels since 1941, before World War II.
and of those 1,284,500 personnel.. HOW many would fight? How many COULD fight? How many are skirt boys?
Anyone else find it odd that the youth think Biden is too pro-Israel and that they will instead vote for Trump? Wasn't Trump very pro-Israel as well?
The NYT cannot even report accurately on the results of its own poll. No doubt, there are those at the NYT who desperately want support of Israel to be toxic. But the NYT poll does not support that narrative. Per Jim Geraghty this morning:
"The New York Times conducted a poll, showing that Joe Biden is in terrible shape for reelection because of the economy and immigration, and chooses to interpret it as a sign that Biden is in trouble because young people think he’s too supportive of Israel. ...
"If the Israeli war against Hamas ended tomorrow, Biden’s numbers would still be lousy. In fact, one of the ways we know this is from the Times’ own poll, which offered respondents an open-ended question: “What do you think is the MOST important problem facing the country today?” Respondents were not given a list of options; they answered with the first problem that came to mind. Take a moment to think about how you would answer that question if the Times pollster called up and asked you.
Guess how many people answered, “The Middle East/Israel/Palestinians”?
One percent.
There isn’t even much evidence that this is a big deal among younger voters. Among voters ages 18 to 29, just 3 percent answered that the most important problem facing the country was “the Middle East/Israel/Palestinians.”
I want the war to end and I want Israel to win decisively.
There is no WAR. There is the IDF dropping tens of thousands of tons of bombs on Gaza Civilians. That's not war, its a one-sided slaughter.
And a war crime. How many churches, hospitals, and apartment buildings does Israel have to destroy before you understand its not a WAR.
"Israel may need to prepare for a future without US aid. Israel is a prosperous country (the Palestinians should reflect upon why that is). To what extent does Israel need US aid?"
To the extent that when a wealthy person buys a house, a car, commercial property, or a boat, they still take out a loan because why use your own when you can use someone else's and offload counterparty risk.
Israel takes US aid because for some reason Washington loves giving it, and voters of either party keep putting politicians in power that also love giving Israel military and economic aid.
This has never been kosher to a lot of people who have a real problem with the overwhelming economic assistance the US gives everyone on planet Earth except their own citizens, like myself.
It should give anyone with a libertarian streak a serious moment of pause. Unfortunately that's about all it gives people.
It seems like the NY Times is dedicated to putting an anti-Israel slant on the polls and their premise is that Joe's support for Israel is going to cost him the election. Clearly, Trump leading among the young is completely contradictory to their premise. Maybe the young don't know that Trump is very pro-Israel? Maybe the young people still believe the Dem's lie that Trump is anti-Semitic? What a hoot trying to predict the irrational! (Reminds me of an Einstein quote about how genius is limited but ignorance is boundless.)
Young people are the most vulnerable to emotional manipulation. Hamas knows about emotional manipulation and makes the most of dead baby pictures and TikTok.
But actually Hamas has no problem with their high casualties. I saw a recent interview with Hamas Chief Khaled Mashal on Al Arabiya where he was challenged about all the death and he explains that he expects to lose a lot of Gazans, that the Russians lost 30 million to defeat the Nazis, the Vietnamese lost 3.5 million to defeat the US, Afghanistan, and Algeria also lost millions. In his words, "no nation is liberated without sacrifices." So he's not apologizing for his attack on Israel and the aftermath.
It's interesting that young people are responding more positively to Trump despite everything that the Dem's have been putting out. Maybe it's because Trump's more of a straight shooter and positive about the US and life in general. Maybe he calms their anxiety.
"liberal, secular, atheist, NYC Jews aren't having descendants any more than other liberal, secular, atheists."
I think the disconnect is in what kind of legacy they are leaving behind. A legacy can be more than a genetic one.
They do have descendants. Who do you think comes up with "smash the patriarchy", "black lives matter", and even "river to the sea"? Who are the forces fighting for child hormone and sex change therapy? Who are advocating for more-than-equal rights for rainbow jihad? Who makes up an outsized demographic OF rainbow jihad? Who hates cops and wants to de-police major metros? Who are the people that chanted to become sanctuary cities and love immigrants and do so from gated communities? Who are the anti-zionists blocking highways?
Hint: They're all the same people. Often evil will shall evil mar, and damnation their bitterness and jealousy and anxiety are on full display like a flashing siren for anyone who chooses to pay attention.
They absolutely reproduce. And their offspring is anti-civilizational poison.
Mike MJB Wolf:
https://www.timesofisrael.com/pointing-to-hamass-little-state-netanyahu-touts-role-blocking-2-state-solution/
Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu speaks during a press conference at the Defense Ministry in Tel Aviv, December 16, 2023. (Noam Revkin Fenton/Flash90)
Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu said on Saturday night that he was “proud” he prevented the establishment of a Palestinian state and took credit for “putting the brakes” on the Oslo peace process, during a press conference at the Defense Ministry headquarters in Tel Aviv.
..............
Criticism of Netanyahu’s comments was swift in coming, with Yisrael Beytenu MK Oded Forer pointing out that Netanyahu had implemented interim agreements of the Oslo peace process in the 1990s; voted in favor of the disengagement from Gaza (before resigning from Ariel Sharon government’s ahead of its implementation); carried out the deal to free kidnapped soldier Gilad Shalit, in which Hamas’s current leader in Gaza Yahya Sinwar was released; and came to an arrangement that allowed Qatari cash to flow to Hamas in Gaza during his tenure as prime minister.
The real question is will Israeli voters continue to support Netanyahu. I have seen a lot of misplaced criticism of Palestinians for electing Hamas two decades ago, but silence from those same critics on why Israelis continue to elect Netanyahu.
"Guess how many people answered, “The Middle East/Israel/Palestinians”?
One percent."
Thank you for reporting that, Richard.
Like Ukraine, this war is due to Biden’s weakness. Add to that Joe’s idiotic desire to assist Iran both strategically and financially and you have an epic self-own that only Biden and his moronic band of mysterious puppeteers could have walked face-first into.
If Biden gets re-elected, get ready for all kinds of fun on the China/Taiwan front. While our media has to pretend that Joe is sentient, our enemies are under no such obligation, as is obvious by all the negative geopolitical events that have occurred in the world since Joe ascended from his basement.
I'm surprised no one has noticed that the whole story is based on a false dichotomy: "those wanting the war to end" and "those pressing for a definitive Israeli victory" are not opposites. The latter want the war to end, once and for all, and hope to achieve that by destroying Hamas's ability to make war. The former cannot seriously expect that war will end if Israel pulls back. Hamas openly says that they intend to make many more October 7ths. Also, as this tweet from earlier today notes, "74 days into the war, Hamas is still firing on Tel Aviv". (Yes, he's a Fox correspondent, but I seriously doubt that he made this up.) What Hamas supporters want is for Hamas's war on Israel to continue, with Israel not fighting back. Referring to them as "those wanting the war to end" is a damned lie.
And thank you, Christopher B.
Why shocked?
Easy. It's the G-word, Dude. Never before (maybe you have examples and can point them out>) have I seen an issue or a war, where the majorities on both sides have said the other side is committing "genocide." Usually the G-word is only in the vocabulary of the craziest advocates, the fanatics. That's what makes this shockingly different, where even self-professed conservatives on this very comment thread can assert that Israel is committing genocide, that in fact there has been an ongoing "genocide" of Palestinians that somehow had the opposite effect of quadrupling their population.
And on the other side, I do believe Hamas and Palestinians in general would like to commit genocide and completely wipe Jews of the earth's surface -- because they say so. They simply lack the means. I'm am shocked that alleged adults will say that a population growing enormously through natural reproduction is suffering a "genocide." The crazy is dialed up to eleven on this one.
Like most public protests, the pro-Palestinian one is a good a way to get laid.
In some conflicts, the beliefs of the people that they are the righteous party and the other(s) the evil butchers may be more or less well-founded and correct, and other times woefully deluded, but most of the time such distinctions are wrong from the start or cannot be sustained as all sides resort to ever more brutal and indiscriminate violence.
I'm with Cookie here. Snap a picture.
Blogger tommyesq said...
Anyone else find it odd that the youth think Biden is too pro-Israel and that they will instead vote for Trump? Wasn't Trump very pro-Israel as well?
Yeah I noticed the same thing. I don't have a good answer but I think that even though Trump is more Pro-Israel than Biden overall I think he comes off as less likely to get America involved in foreign affairs. And it may be a situation where some young folks think that if Biden can't help vis-a-vis their preferred policies for Israel and Palestine there aren't a lot of other good reasons to support him. Trump is also iconoclastic, and I think young people perceive a lot of institutional momentum controlling US actions. Also even young people probably remember the economy being much better under Trump than Biden.
Among voters ages 18 to 29, just 3 percent answered that the most important problem facing the country was “the Middle East/Israel/Palestinians.”
How likely is it that 3 percent could point out the Middle East/Israel/Palestine on a map?
Guess how many people answered, “The Middle East/Israel/Palestinians”?
One percent.
Yes, this is typical with the political debate when led by our news media. During the 2020 debates, I would compare the questions asked by moderators with the Gallup list of top 10 issues as ranked by potential voters. Maybe 1 question was an issue in the top 10 (not top 5), and the rest was inane discussions about issues the majority were not interested.
Biden may find his most opportune political position is to do what he believes is right. Does he know what that is?
The problem is Biden's foreign policy instincts are arguably the worst among any politician since the end of WWII, and certainly the worst of an American president. It has not gotten any better with his senility.
So, yes, he knows for sure what the correct position is. He is almost certainly 100% wrong on that, but he'll never figure it out.
They're not going to vote for Trump. That's a bluff. But they might just stay home and not vote.
Biden’s two state strategy would be reasonable.
Wow, Rich puts so much dumb in so few words. The two state strategy is not Bidens. It has existed since 1947 and was accepted by Hamas in 2017, yet they accepted it while refusing to also recognize Israel as the second state. So, claiming this is Biden's idea is just dumb rhetoric.
Yet to whom does Rich think Biden's strategy, whatever it is, is reasonable? First, the White House interns and now the entire White House staff has come out against whatever Biden's strategy is in relation to Palestine and Israel. They walked off their job, stood outside the White House gates, and protested Biden's strategy. That's before we get to the rest of America that disagree with the White House staff and Biden, and then there are the two parties that matter, Hamas and Israel (I guess more considering the proxy war aspect that involves Iran and Houthis).
'There is no WAR. There is the IDF dropping tens of thousands of tons of bombs on Gaza Civilians. That's not war, its a one-sided slaughter.'
If it's not a 'war,' it's because the pussy, cowardly, immoral, and stupid Palestinian 'soldiers' won't wear uniforms, and when confronted, hide behind women and children.
Fuck them and the camels they rode in on...
Biden should decide what he thinks is right.
And then do the opposite.
Rich said...
Netanyahu is an albatross around Biden’s neck. The problem with Biden’s so-called ‘bearhug strategy’ is that he has no veto on Netanyahu’s actions. Were it not for the discredited Netanyahu, Biden’s two state strategy would be reasonable.
Sheer fantasy, Rich. Palestinians have been rejecting a two state solution for close to 100 years. With 75% of those surveyed in Gaza and the West Bank siding with a genocidal Hamas, Netanyahu is not any kind of impediment-and a great many folks on the Israeli left have reached the same conclusion. Kushner's strategy of creating an Israeli/Sunni Arab allinace and ignoring the Palestinians was outside the box thinking that was working-with the Saudis primed to join before Ol' Joe came in with an idea to punish the "murderer" MBS and cashier the Accords.
One more thing...
Every Palestinian, man or woman, who is captured with a weapon and not wearing a uniform, should be summarily executed where they stand.
It should take about a minute to ninety seconds to determine their guilt or innocence.
They don't have to fight by the rules, but there should be consequences.
"The real question is will Israeli voters continue to support Netanyahu. I have seen a lot of misplaced criticism of Palestinians for electing Hamas two decades ago, but silence from those same critics on why Israelis continue to elect Netanyahu."
All right, I'll bite. Who do you believe Israel should elect to lead them and what are his/her policies vis a vis the Palestinians?
"Like Ukraine, this war is due to Biden’s weakness. Add to that Joe’s idiotic desire to assist Iran both strategically and financially and you have an epic self-own that only Biden and his moronic band of mysterious puppeteers could have walked face-first into."
As someone said upthread, Joe Biden is actually funding both sides of this conflict. Who does that (besides arms dealers)?
What you see is what you get.
Bidens only "strategy" is sugar or waffle cone.
He doesnt go home and strategize. To even think he does is pretty stupid.
"I don’t remember “younger voters” ever attracting the attention of the mainstream press like they are today.
What’s really going on here?"
Media only get interested if it may be bad for the Dems in 2024.
Want to stop civilians dying?
Easy. Have Hamas surrender.
So simple.
But many here would rather hate Jews.
It was his state department along with the EU, and the UN that dumped 10s of billions on Hamas, which they used to build tunnels, to build rockets and sock away cash in Qatari banks and real estate
I hear both sides squabbling about Israel vs Hamas/Palistine. You're looking though a myopic lens if that's all you see here. The underlying objective of Iran, is a Islamic theocracy across the MidEast, and eventually the world. Everyone knows that, but I rarely see it connected to Israel/Gaza. It is absolutely imperative that Israel achieve their goals in Gaza. Minimal loss of life would be a good thing but stopping Iran is goal #1 to the exclusion of all else. In a very real sense this is Western Civilization vs Islamic Theocracy, and I know who I am rooting for. The consequences of letting this come to a head is not tens of thousands of Gazans. It's billions of lives worldwide.
It is my firm belief that if Iran is not controlled or eliminated there will be enriched uranium scattered (by proxy of course) across metropolitan areas in the US. What that would lead to is unimaginable.
The George Floyd moment wasn’t simply an American phenomenon it was a social media phenomenon.
Are you sure the "George Floyd moment" is what you want to reference here? Certainly, it changed the world - but it's definitely not self-evident that it changed things for the better.
And it was all based on the story that George Floyd was "murdered" by Chauvin, which isn't borne out by evidence. Floyd was mortally drug-impaired according to toxicity reports, crying out that he couldn't breathe while he was standing by himself according to witness reports and bodycam footage, and according to bodycam footage, Chauvin's knee was on his shoulder, not his neck, in a hold featured in the police training manual to subdue violent or frantic subjects.
So. Maybe that "moment" isn't the best cultural referent for how we should be viewing the Gazan conflict.
“Anyone who doesn't support Israel killing 20,000 innocent men women and kids is an antisemite.”
BS statistic. It, of course, came from Hamas, which eans that it is propaganda. It is precisely that the Israelis have very restrictive ROEs, that the war isn’t over yet, and IDF forces are dying.
I'm surprised no one has noticed that the whole story is based on a false dichotomy
I started out about to make this very comment, then deleted it as too obvious! Then nobody said anything about it until you, Doc!
"Israel may need to prepare for a future without US aid. Israel is a prosperous country (the Palestinians should reflect upon why that is). To what extent does Israel need US aid?"
Israel needs bleeding/cutting edge American armaments. See F-35's, Patriot missiles, etc. (Then Israel improves them to their specific needs). That's a BIG part of American aid. While we do sell these systems to other countries they are NOT sold to just anyone.
"Like most public protests, the pro-Palestinian one is a good a way to get laid."
Lol there's a lot of that going on here as well. I remember one 'citizen journalist' interviewing two yutes who were shouting slogans when they were taking a break from looting shortly after St. Floyd of Fentanyl's timely demise. It was like a party for them.
Free booze
Free keds
Maybe not free but the hookers were at least running a special
Remember in 2016 when Gloria Steinem said of young women who supported Bernie Sanders that they did so because that's "where the boys were"? That was very tongue-in-cheek not least of which because there's more than a kernel of truth in it.
When you're young and you're mad and you're horny, being in a crowd protesting the same thing eliminates a huge amount of prep-work for you. All you really need at that point is to be marginally attractive and have some rizz. By the time you've been there for an hour or so you've forgotten all about why you were actually there, especially after you've grabbed a few digits and instragram DMs.
Sounds like the 'poll' mostly included NYT staffers under 30 and their friends.
rcocean said...
"There is no WAR. There is the IDF dropping tens of thousands of tons of bombs on Gaza Civilians. That's not war, its a one-sided slaughter.
And a war crime. How many churches, hospitals, and apartment buildings does Israel have to destroy before you understand it's not a WAR."
The Bible is the Zionist's deed to the land. You can't argue with that "logic." Let them find out. They demand nothing less.
Charlie said...
“Sleepy Joe has been wrong about every foreign policy issue since he entered American politics in 1973. So the odds aren't good.”
So what you’re saying is we can count on Joe to be reliable.
more good news for Joe (you're looking at the wrong polls) Biden!
Former President Trump tops resident Joe Biden with young voters by six points, according to a New York Times/Siena College poll.
“nearly every major survey at this point” shows Trump topping Biden with young people.
Among all registered voters, Trump tops Biden by two points, 46 to 44 percent. Back in July, this same poll showed the two likely candidates tied at 43 percent. Also of note in that same poll is the fact that Biden was beating Trump among those same young voters by ten points, 47 to 37 percent. That’s a 16-point shift toward Trump among the 19-29 year olds over five months.
rcocean said...
There is no WAR. There is the IDF dropping tens of thousands of tons of bombs on Gaza Civilians
remember!
to rcocean: EVERYONE in Gaza is a "civilian", ESPECIALLY the members of "civilian" Hamas
to rcocean: EVERYONE in Israel is a "soldier" and thus open targets for rape, torture, and murder
It all makes perfect sense, once you realize what rcocean is
"I don’t remember “younger voters” ever attracting the attention of the mainstream press like they are today.
What’s really going on here?"
The powers that be need a constant flow of rubes with nothing to lose to keep providing throughput for the ponzi scheme. The young, immigrants, kinksters, wokesters and various other suckers fit the bill.
“And a war crime. How many churches, hospitals, and apartment buildings does Israel have to destroy before you understand it’s not a WAR.”
Someone doesn’t understand what “war crimes” are. Here’s a clue:
Taking civilian hostages- war crime
Deliberately targeting civilians - war crime
Not fighting in uniform - war crime
Using civilians, hospitals, schools as shields - war crime
Attacking an entity that engaged in all of the above - not a war crime
Collateral damage to civilian buildings, and civilian casualties as a result of responding the above war crimes - not a war crime
Do your homework.
rcocean said…"“Anyone who doesn't support Israel killing 20,000 innocent men women and kids is an antisemite.”
Bruce Hayden said..."BS statistic. "
Apparently, he believes if he says it enough people will believe it.
It ain't working.
""I don’t remember “younger voters” ever attracting the attention of the mainstream press like they are today.
What’s really going on here?""
The mainstream press are youngsters now.
An explanation of what makes antisemites tick.
The Genius of the Crowd by Charles Bukowski
Neighborhood Retail Alliance: "Sheer fantasy, Rich."
An evergreen observation.
Well, Howard. That certainly explains your vote for Biden.
I never thought I'd say this. Rich is Chuck without the towering intellect.
If rcocean was truly concerned with the Palestinians, those posts above would be urging Hamas to surrender unconditionally, disarm, accept their convictions in war crime trials and take the punishments for their use of civilians as human shields and targets of their military.
Unconditional surrender of Hamas, trial of all Hamas members. Instant peace for Palestinians.
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