ADDED: I'd like to see a poll of the people who voted in person. How many of them, waiting in line to vote, said something like "Who are we voting for?" to somebody on the way in?
December 14, 2023
"Nineteen percent (19%) of those who cast mail-in votes say a friend or family member filled out their ballot..."
"... in part or in full, on their behalf. Furthermore, 17% of mail-in voters say that in the 2020 election, they cast a ballot in a state where they were no longer a permanent resident."Rasmussen reports.
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48 comments:
Dad has Parkinson's with a heavy tremor. Of course we fill out his ballot according to his wishes. If Rasmussen had polled us, we'd be part of the 19%.
Every election I receive a ballot from a state I used to live in. I've tried to tell them to take me off their rolls, but I need my voter registration number to do so. I have no idea what that is anymore. I toss the ballot, but I can understand how it can be confusing. It's an official document. It looks important and necessary.
Scammers and cheaters are out there. They always are. I refuse, however, to be poked and prodded into outrage by this.
Only 19%? Seems low.
51 intelligence officials are scrambling to draft a letter asserting the poll was Russian disinformation.
What about the 17% who admitted voting in a. district where they were no longer permanent residents?
How about the 10% or so who admitted being offered money for their ballots? I wonder if people don't go around "harvesting" those live ballots from lonely rural mailboxes.
What is a vote? is something we need to have universal agreement on. No more selective use of shenanigans. If vote harvester becomes a career like activist, so be it, I suppose…
Only 19%? Seems low.
That's just the ones who admit to it. (In other news, no one has ever cheated on their spouse or their taxes.)
I trust the Director of the Socialism Research Center at the Heartland Institue about as much as I trust Hunter Biden.
It's funny how many conservatives leave out the involvement of a biased think tank in this poll, but if it was NYT and Rasmussen would ignore the results. It's almost like they don't want their own standards applied to this story.
Kate gets three votes to my one, and it is her feelings on the matter that reign supreme. I wonder how that works? Oh yeah, she gets three votes to my one.
"Nineteen percent (19%) of those who cast mail-in votes say a friend or family member filled out their ballot..."
Does "friend" include the democrat paid shill that gives you $10 to sign your name to a ballot they already completed?
That 19% also does not include the dead folks that voted [reliably democrat] since you know, they can't answer the phone so as to take the poll but apparently they can still write...
The bar will now be reset:
There is no evidence of widespread ballot fraud by people with bad intentions.
Or, When Bad News Travels Painfully Slow.
Kate said...
Dad has Parkinson's with a heavy tremor. Of course we fill out his ballot according to his wishes
of COURSE!
because if "his wishes" didn't DIRECT correlate with KATE'S wishes, Kate would be TOO BUSY!
Kate BRAGS about breaking the law.. But DON'T WORRY, she ONLY does it because it helps HER party
Can't We ALL AGREE?
That Everyone should vote?
That just because a person is too sick or too busy, or too stupid or too dead; shouldn't mean he can't vote?
And, SURELY we ALL AGREE, that people that didn't vote; SHOULD have voted? Should have voted democrat?
At the end of the day.. If a person's vote wasn't cast; that vote should be in the democrat pile
“Among those who cast mail-in ballots in 2020, nearly equal percentages of Democrats, Republicans and unaffiliated voters admitted to fraudulent activities. For example, 19% of Republicans, 16% of Democrats and 17% of unaffiliated voters who cast 2020 mail-in ballots say they signed a ballot or ballot envelope on behalf of a friend or family member. On the question of voting in a state where they were no longer a permanent resident. more Republican mail-in voters (24%) than Democrats (17%) or unaffiliated voters (11%) admitted doing so.“
Leland is spot on. The unethical win when it’s easy to cheat. Those who think it’s wrong to vote for another are outnumbered by those willing to cheat. The only solution is a bit more friction in the process. It shouldn’t be onerous to vote but it should take a small amount of effort, enough to make fraud expensive.
No more early voting, no auto-mailed absentee ballots, absentee ballot requests must state a reason, absentee ballots must be received by Election Day.
And make Election Day a national holiday.
I've had some disagreements with fellow Dems on this, but unless you have a demonstrable health or physical issue that prevents you from going out of the house or into a polling place, you should vote in person. Voting is a right, but it's also a responsibility and I don't think it needs to be convenient.
Numbers that big show that the system isn’t working. The idea that Democrats and Republicans do it in roughly even numbers is irrelevant. The principle is one man one vote. It’s an election, not a poll.
Chi Com COVID showed up just in time to give the corrupt democrats their vote schemes.
If you think something has life or death results, and it's easy to cheat, why wouldn't you? Serious question.
Althouse asked: "Who are we voting for?" to somebody on the way in?
This is why we have laws about how close influencers can get to the polling place, and why someone can't go into the actual booth with you. It's why anti-union people have supported secret ballots rather that "card check", and why union shops want people to have to vote pro/anti union in the open.
It's why Georgia passed the law to not let campaign volunteers pass out water in line. Because we know people in the polling place may be subjected to influence or pressure.
But apparently that doesn't happen at home or at a nursing home or wherever. Just at the polling place.
Our elections should be held by secret ballot and in person voting is the only way to achieve this. In person voting is private, more secure, more accurate and the outcome is more likely to reflect the free expression of (eligible) voters.
Mail in ballots = voter intimidation. No need to debate who's intimidating who...
Kate,
"I refuse, however, to be poked and prodded into outrage by this."
You're part of the problem, then.
Kylos @7:19am,
In other words, like almost all of Europe.
Althouse, I would also be interested in seeing that poll, but I hope you don’t mean to suggest that such a conversation at a polling place, followed by the unaided casting of a secret ballot, presents the same risk of organized fraud/manipulation as the “aided” casting of (therefore) non-secret ballots.
Sure sounds like systemic vote fraud.
In November or December of 2024, 26,or 28 there will be political violence in the streets of the US. Far bloodier than we have seen in decades. And it will be over a disputed outcome about a close but significant election held with sloppy and inconsistent standards. Most people on this site will be certain that the conservative truly won, but that is not the point. Both sides will defend their view with a passionate intensity. It should be addressed now by implementing clear rules, but of course it won’t be.
It's funny how many conservatives leave out the involvement of a biased think tank in this poll, but if it was NYT and Rasmussen would ignore the results. It's almost like they don't want their own standards applied to this story.
Empbasis mine.
I don't think you mean "ignore." I think you mean "publicly doubt," at least in the case of the NYT. And if the NYT would do and publish a poll like this, I doubt you'd see much ignoring here.
Like everyone, we of the majority in this commentariat are subject to our own biases and to interpreting stories in the light we prefer. So are you, obviously, since your comment was intended to cast aspersions on this poll.
In other interpretation news, I wonder how many of the Republicans who "admitted" to no longer being "permanent residents" of the state in which they voted were military, and interpreting the poll question incorrectly (if indeed "permanent residents" was the language used). When I was a kid and my dad was active duty, my parents had to (or got to, depending on how you look at it) choose a state in which their legal residency... uh, resided, not just when we were overseas as I recall but all the time. We were "residents" of Iowa for most of my childhood though we only lived there from 1974 to 1976.
Though not exactly an answer to Ann’s question, I’m a volunteer election official for my County, and almost universally the voters come in to the poll with the pink sheet or the blue sheet from the activists outside, telling them how they’re supposed to vote according to the party. And our area, it’s almost all blue sheets. There is rarely any indication that anyone did any thinking, researching or studying about candidates before showing up. They votes as told, for free…
I know someone who ho registered her severely autistic adult child to vote and “helps” with the ballot. Same child is legally categorized as someone who can not take responsibility for their own daily needs and affairs. That’s definitely fraud, but from what I understand also completely legal.
...they cast a ballot in a state where they were no longer a permanent resident
On the flip side of this are liberal college towns. Out of State college kids going to the University of Wisconsin should have to vote in the state where they came from. This is one of the voter fraud scams Madison and other college towns like to run.
You only have to "reside" in WI for 28 days to register to vote.
Figure that's about 20k out of state students in Madison alone. All completely indoctrinated.
I was a poll observer in 2012, tasked to be on the alert for signs of cheating. More than one group home for the cognitively disabled brought all their residents en masse to vote. They went in with them to the polling booth to help them vote. The poll workers refused to do anything about it, so I assume it wasn’t illegal. I know they were voting for Obama because I later encountered the mastermind behind it who bragged about it to me. Also, that day, a guy with no ID and limited English asked me which name on the ballot was Obama before he walked into the booth with his provisional ballot. I became very disillusioned and disgusted with our system that day. I still vote, but I no longer believe my vote counts.
And this from the left-wing associated press: https://apnews.com/article/florida-voter-fraud-villages-desantis-3fee03e8cb17535ea5465e299c2c08b5
"17% of mail-in voters say that in the 2020 election, they cast a ballot in a state where they were no longer a permanent resident."
According to Wikipedia there were something like 65 million mail-in ballots cast in the 2020 election. 17% of that is 11 million fraudulent votes. That's around 7% of the vote total just for this one scenario, and doesn't take into account all of the other schemes and scams that are used to cast illegal ballots. The estimates are also limited to those who ADMIT to being guilty of vote fraud. The true numbers are almost certainly much higher.
Houston, we have a problem.....
I find it more concerning that the article states that 29% of Hispanic voters and 15% of Black voters report they were offered money to vote.
Left Bank of the Charles said...
"[“Among those who cast mail-in ballots in 2020, nearly equal percentages of Democrats, Republicans and unaffiliated voters admitted to fraudulent activities. For example, 19% of Republicans, 16% of Democrats and 17% of unaffiliated voters who cast 2020 mail-in ballots say they signed a ballot or ballot envelope on behalf of a friend or family member. On the question of voting in a state where they were no longer a permanent resident. more Republican mail-in voters (24%) than Democrats (17%) or unaffiliated voters (11%) admitted doing so.“]"
Fraudulent, maybe, with regard to local and state races, but not necessarily so for Federal ones. When we moved to PA in September 2020, we could have obtained a Wisconsin mail-in ballot but didn't. We didn't yet have Pennsylvania IDs so we weren't able to register to vote, and we sat out the November election.
I understood the working definition of fraud, in my career, to be:
He lied.
He knew he lied.
You relied on the lie.
It cost you.
A mistake may be reckless, but it's not a lie, if done unwittingly.
If there's no reliance on the lie, no loss; likewise if the net effect isn't different.
Kate, you write great comments, and I understand your viewpoint. That said, my mother has dementia, and nobody fills out a ballot for her. While that disenfranchises her, I'm hard pressed to understand how any other action is morally valid beyond the claim my sister or me might make that "we know what her wishes would be".
The problem still exists that it is an extra vote that can easily be manipulated that others are not provided.
A few years ago, I went into the polling place and found that my ballot allowed me to vote for the Mayor of Houston, despite my residence on my voter id not residing in the City of Houston. My neighbor noticed the same thing. We took the matter to a lawyer that got the issue resolved. I could have ignored the issue, but I knew if I had the opportunity, then perhaps others (which is how I found out about my neighbor) would have it as well, and none of us should. It didn't take outrage. It simply took saying, "this is wrong".
“Among those who cast mail-in ballots in 2020, nearly equal percentages of Democrats, Republicans and unaffiliated voters admitted to fraudulent activities."
Ignoring whether this is actually true, it omits that Democrats voted by mail at double the rate as Republicans, so if the fraudulent percentages were equal, it would result in the Democratic candidate getting double the amount of fraudulent votes.
Blogger Left Bank of the Charles said...
“Among those who cast mail-in ballots in 2020, nearly equal percentages of Democrats, Republicans and unaffiliated voters admitted to fraudulent activities"
And, somehow, that makes it ok…
My husband was unable to go to the polls the last 3 years of his life. His hand was not steady, so I filled his mail-in ballot for him. He did sign it--just legibly enough to understand. This, by the way, is legal here in Wisconsin. I had to sign on the envelope as well that I had assisted. Then I went to the polls where I am a Chief Election Inspector and voted in person myself. Again, if asked, It would appear to the ignorant that I was committing fraud.
“Minority voters are significantly more likely than whites to say they engaged in fraudulent election activities in 2020.”
How can we judge what percentage of people polled answered this poll honestly? Ordinarily, a candidate’s supporters have every incentive to answer honestly as that builds up their side. White Trumpsters answering this poll have every incentive to answer that they are a Black Democrat who voted in a state where they didn’t live and filled out other people’s absentee ballots.
I don't see where they differentiated "filled in by someone else" between just hand the ballot over to do what you want versus helping someone who needs assistance. Helping your mother fill in her choices is not the same as taking her ballot and boosting your choices.
Why you might think that there is something wrong with the mail in ballot process!
But our host raises an interesting question. Are there people who stand in line at the polls and ask their friends/neighbors/acquaintances "Who are we voting for today". [Well that will surely happen when "get out the vote" workers from either party shanghai a non voter and bring them to the polls.]
But years ago my wife was mightily amused by a young female co-worker who, the day after the votes were counted, asked "Did I get it right? Did I vote for the winner?"
I'm not saying that young lady was an airhead--although she pulled 28 inches of vacuum between her ears. But she wanted to vote for the winner--whoever that was. Didn't matter what the candidate's platform was--she just "had to get her vote right".
First, every single ballot should have a sequential number within the jurisdiction it is used. When voting starts, it should be made public the exact number of ballots that were printed and delivered to each jurisdiction. We should know, and need to know, exactly how many ballots were printed, for example, to use in the 10th precinct of Wayne County, Michigan or in Pike County, Kentucky. When voting stops, we should quickly have a full count of exactly how many ballots were used- by literally looking at the sequential number of the last ballot used in the election period, and all unused ballots should be fully secured for up to 2 years after the election and separated from the ones used which should also be kept for 2 years minimum. Additionally, when the polls close, a release of how many people signed into each precinct should be made public before counting even starts.
You should have to vote in-person with a photo-ID and sign in with representatives of each party on the ballot approving the ID and crossing the name off the voter list. No provisional ballots of any kind allowed. If you cannot make it to your unique polling location, then you must arrange to have your ballot delivered to your residence by a team consisting of representatives of all the parties on the ballot, and you must still present a photo ID and sign in with your name crossed off the precinct's voter list. And you must do this by the time the physical polls close on that Tuesday election day.
I think this should all be done on a single day, like it used to be possible to do, but am willing to make "Election Day" "Election 4-day weekend" with indelible ink applied to one finger as one turns in a ballot. There really can't be reasonable objections to this system I have outlined if you really support non-corrupt elections- it makes cheating as onerous as possible on the cheaters, and should limit over-voting to less than 0.01% of total vote fairly reliably across all jurisdictions.
Left Bank,
I am going to point out the exact thing that Tommyesq pointed out above- the poll is only for people who filled out mail-in-ballots, but we know with 100% certainty that Democrats used mail-in-votes at twice the rate as Republicans did in 2020- so even if each political party cheat at equal rates on mail-in-ballots, this means Democrats garner twice as many fraudulent votes.
Personally, I am unsurprised to find that Republicans mail-in-voters report cheating with mail-in-ballots as often as Democrats- both groups consist of human beings after all- but you have to actually use mail-in-ballots if you are going to cheat that way. I personally think we only fix this when Republicans start using mail-in-ballots and cheat just as effectively as Democrats do, driving turnout for both parties combined to over 120% of the registered voters- then and only then might they agree to a cease fire and agree to better secured method that actually prevents cheating.
"Blogger LuAnn Zieman said...
My husband was unable to go to the polls the last 3 years of his life. His hand was not steady, so I filled his mail-in ballot for him. He did sign it--just legibly enough to understand. This, by the way, is legal here in Wisconsin. I had to sign on the envelope as well that I had assisted. Then I went to the polls where I am a Chief Election Inspector and voted in person myself. Again, if asked, It would appear to the ignorant that I was committing fraud.
12/14/23, 11:22 AM"
I have no problem with this type of stuff IF there are safeguards to make damn sure the ballot you are bringing in actually is your fathers. Not sure how, maybe a phone call ( which I know sounds kinda ludicrous ) but it MUST be legit, fair and without the ability to cheat. If that means your father does not get to vote, so be it.
But having democrats yelling and screaming that there is not voting fraud is not an answer.
wahington state hasn't used in person voting in more than a decade. All mail-in voting all the time.
Typical of the RNC and/or Dumbo-Cons that they never thought of commissioning the same sort of survey in 2021.
In 2020 Trump won 2-1 among people who showed up at the polls and voted in PA. Biden won 2-1 among people who cast mail-in ballots.
Biden narrowly won the state. They knew how much they had to cheat after election day, they had the number, and they produced enough mail-in ballots.
But as Bill Barr said, that not evidence of fraud.
"It simply took saying, "this is wrong"."
What is the definition of "wrong", when one candidate is literally Hitler?
Apropos to... nothing.
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