December 16, 2023

"Ketamine is a powerful anesthetic that has become increasingly popular as an alternative therapy for depression, anxiety, post-traumatic stress disorder..."

"... and other hard-to-treat mental health problems. It is also used recreationally. The autopsy report said that Perry had been on ketamine infusion therapy but that the ketamine in his system could not have been from his last known therapy session, which was about a week and a half before he died.... 'At the high levels of ketamine found in his postmortem blood specimens, the main lethal effects would be from both cardiovascular overstimulation and respiratory depression,' the autopsy report said. It noted that the level of ketamine investigators found in Perry’s blood was equivalent to the amount that would be used during general anesthesia. The Food and Drug Administration issued an alert in October warning about the dangers of treating psychiatric disorders with compounded versions of the drug...."

ADDED: Here's Joe Rogan promoting the stuff 2 months ago.

AND: From "Matthew Perry denounced ketamine in his memoir, said it made him think he was ‘dying’" (NY Post):
Describing the drug as a “giant exhale,” [he] said he would receive ketamine while blindfolded and listening to music. He explained that he would “disassociate” during his infusions and often felt as if he were “dying.” “‘Oh,’ I thought, ‘This is what happens when you die,'” he recalled.... 

41 comments:

NorthOfTheOneOhOne said...

Interesting development. I'm seeing some sources say that Perry did ketamine therapy while in rehab as a treatment for depression, but he reportedly didn't like it. If so, why take it now?

Old and slow said...

I've always found the idea of ketamine "therapy" to be very strange. I thought it was about very low doses, but clearly that wasn't the case here. I did ketamine recreationaly one time, and that was enough for me. I did a very small amount, and the effect was overwhelming. I don't know how long it lasted, but I was at least nominally conscious the whole time. If I had been able to speak, which I was not, I couldn't have told you where or even who I was. I wouldn't recommend ketamine to my worst enemy.

Old and slow said...

Anyone taking ketamine while in a hot tub knows that they are committing suicide. There is no other possible outcome. He had to know this. It would be a pretty painless death.

Michael K said...

Back when I was a surgery resident, Ketamine was used as an anesthetic but that trial was ended because the patients had bad reactions and would "freak out" post anesthesia if stimulated by loud noises or other other stimuli.

rrsafety said...

My daughter had six treatments for depression and anxiety. Did not work. I’ve heard others have very good outcomes, though.

Mark said...

Elon Musk is another outspoken fan of Ketamine.

Vonnegan said...

Unfortunately proving once again that "recreational" drug use is a bad idea. I don't dislike Rogan (I'm not his demographic, so I'm probably not supposed to be fond of him) but I think it's definitely irresponsible of him to promote it like he does. How old are his kids? Maybe he backs off on that once they're old enough to do this stuff themselves, and he comes to realize "oh shit, I didn't mean for YOU to do this stuff kid". One can hope.

In my own experience Ketamine is a really odd drug. I've had it during surgery and the pain-killing effect it has for days after are amazing, if a little disturbing. I was post-hysterectomy, moving around like you'd expect someone who just had major surgery to move (aka, creeping around like a little old lady) but pain-wise, all I needed was Advil to feel nothing at all. A friend had it when she had her ankle reconstructed and she said it was so odd to look at her ankle the size of a grapefruit, that she couldn't walk on, and yet feel nothing whatsoever. It's definitely a potent, dangerous drug.

Ice Nine said...

Don't be surprised when some opportunistic politicians start yammering for draconian limitation of the very medically-important Ketamine because this loser ODd on it - just like they did with critically medically-important opioids because a bunch of loser junkies killed themselves with them.

MadTownGuy said...

"Oh,’ I thought, ‘This is what happens when you die,'” he recalled...."

And then he found out. Tragic.

wild chicken said...

yeah it's a rec drug too...he went down the k hole...

Jake said...

Sad

Ann Althouse said...

"Interesting development. I'm seeing some sources say that Perry did ketamine therapy while in rehab as a treatment for depression, but he reportedly didn't like it. If so, why take it now?"

As my update shows, it's not so much that he didn't "like" it as that it reminded him of death. The easy way to find coherence is to infer that he was choosing death. Using a huge dose and getting in the hot tub alone was either extremely foolish or suicide.

FullMoon said...

Moderation is key.

gilbar said...

isn't it GREAT? that the USA has declared rec drug use to be WAY COOL! and The Way to GO!
Between alcohol and pot and hallucinogens and adderal and meth and fentanyl and all..
Everybody MUST Get Stoned!
Just turn off your mind, relax and float down the drain.. Let the drugs erase your brain

Of the Pro BLM, Pro Hammas, Pro Climate Crisis kids out there.. Are ANY of them straight?
Or, are they All like Hippy Johnny?

Wilbur said...

I first heard of the drug - "Special K" - as a Miami party or club drug about 15-20 years ago. Very popular stuff.

I was told then it was a horse tranquilizer.

Kai Akker said...

Wasn't this part of the psychedelic psychotherapy cited by some San Franciscan in one of the recent posts -- three, four weeks ago? She combined ketamine with a psychedelic, iirc. And talked about it like it was a religious experience.

NorthOfTheOneOhOne said...

Ann Althouse said...

As my update shows...

Thanks, had not seen that take on the story.

Kakistocracy said...

Ketamine is just another drug he was addicted to. Doing anything to get high. As he said in his memoir “ketamine has my name on it”.

Ketamine is very similar in chemical structure and effects as PCP, which a few decades ago was demonized as Angel Dust when it became a popular street drug among lower income users. When affluent people discovered the Ketamine buzz, it was legitimized as ‘good medicine.’ Another factor is that it costs pennies to make while ‘clinics’ charge $500 and up per trip.

Yancey Ward said...

"Interesting development. I'm seeing some sources say that Perry did ketamine therapy while in rehab as a treatment for depression, but he reportedly didn't like it. If so, why take it now?"

I have known hard-core alcoholics who will tell you how much they despise alcohol and how it makes them feel. I think that most addicts have a powerful love/hate relationship with their drugs.

Tattycoram said...

Ketamine is not yet a standard treatment for longterm treatment-resistant depression, but it is not "alternative."

Our teenage daughter had suffered from depression since she was 10. She reported that none of the various drugs she had been prescribed helped her; genetic testing confirmed her report. Cognitive behavior therapy also has not much helped her, she says.

She was treated through a program at Yale with many, many protocols. (Yale is also running various blind ketamine studies, but our daughter didn't qualify.) We were a quite apprehensive but her depression had deteriorated so much to such a precarious and dangerous degree that we assented and crossed our fingers. The effect was, in her, remarkable. By the second treatment she was already showing some of her once-characteristic curiosity and generosity of mind. She was treated at decreasing intervals for two months. After perhaps the first month we didn't see any further change particularly.

She still suffers from various other mental problems from, mostly, OCD and PTSD, but not from depression, thank God and ketamine.

Jay Vogt said...

I feel really bad for the poor guy. He had such a nice air about him. And, I can't even imagine that lifestyle. But just on my casual observance of the story:

1.)Acute effect? Who came up with that? That's a messy phrase for some other thing. Wonder what?

2.) I saw that CNN had his place of death as Malibu. The AP story had his place of death as Pacific Palisades. . . close but not the same. Any chance we could get that right? Journalism is supposed to be about the whole: who, what, where, when & why thing. If you can't even get the where part right, the whole rest of your story is probably a mess too.

Michael said...

He died doing what he loved.

Aggie said...

What is it about the rich & famous that tempts them to tread so close to the edge with dangerous habits like powerful drugs? I guess they think their fame has made them bulletproof and indestructible. A sad place, to be so isolated and bored, at the same time. RIP.

Marcus Bressler said...

The addict's brain: If this amount makes me feel good, a whole lot more ought to make me feel a whole lot more gooder.......

MarcusB. THEOLDMAN

Joe Smith said...

Newsflash: Hollywood celebrity dies of drug overdose.

I need coffee.

Bima said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Bima said...

It doesn't make much difference but I have heard a report that Mr. Perry likely died from an overdose of Benzodiazepine (Xanax) and Buprenorphine (Suboxone) which were supposedly found lying on the floor in his bathroom. It was reported that Ketamine, by itself, would probably not be fatal. It's presence along with other opioids certainly could be. The official toxicology report, which may be made public in a week or two, should confirm the actual cause of death.

Old and slow said...

Ketamine in a hot tub is fatal 100% of the time if there is no one else there to pull you out. He knew what he was doing.

mikee said...

If a guy as rich, famous and popular as Perry couldn't get off drugs, with all the support and rehab services in the world available to him, what chance has the homeless addict in any urban alley? God help them all, humans don't seem to be able to do much for them.

rcocean said...

Maybe suicide. Maybe bad judgment. Did you read his book? Anyone who takes so many drugs his teeth fall out, isn't a fount of wisdom.

I was just reading about Michael Jackson and he was demanding his doctor give him some "knock out" drug used in surgery, so he could sleep. The DR gave him too much. Goodbye Michael.

IRC, Whitney Houston died in a bathtub of alcohol and some drug. It seems to be an easy way to go.

walter said...

" She reported that none of the various drugs she had been prescribed helped her; genetic testing confirmed her report. "
??

walter said...

Strange. He reportedly worked out earlier that day.

Paul said...

I have no sympathy for drug addicts... none. and this guy Perry knew he was killing himself. He could have moved to the desert to get away from drugs but nah...

See I never had the stupidity to get into drugs. Even in college in the '70s I told the others who were passing around the cigar box of pot, "thinks but no thanks". So yea, worst I do is drink a beer every maybe 4-5 days.

It is well know what drugs do to people and yet they still wish to kill themselves... well they can go to hell... their way. I ain't gonna give these homeless drug addicts a dime.

Old and slow said...

Wow Paul, you seem like a nice guy! Milk of human kindness and all that.

Eva Marie said...

It was rhhardin (he was talking about sex and teenage boys) who came up with the best definition of addiction (I’m paraphrasing here): you do it so that you don’t have to think about it. It’s not that addictions give you pleasure - it’s that partaking in your addiction, your brain isn’t relentlessly thinking about it - at least for a little while.
I watch short clips of Friends on YouTube. Ever since Mathew Perry said that when he was thin on the show - that was drugs, and when he was overweight - it was alcohol, it’s so sad to watch him now. I never used to notice his weight fluctuations before. Sometimes he’s so very thin.
I think he said he spent 6 million dollars on all the rehab programs he tried. RIP

Zach said...

Some depressed people have had amazing results from ketamine.

Still, it's surprising that a doctor was willing to prescribe a drug that his patient had publicly admitted to abusing in the past.

MayBee said...

Ketamine and Mushrooms are being pushed to the public like the next great harmless oxycontin.

We keep watching people die, and we keep not caring. If they were famous when they died of their addiction, we make movies about them. Otherwise, we just let people die and keep looking for new ways to drug up the current generations.

rcocean said...

"It is well know what drugs do to people and yet they still wish to kill themselves... well they can go to hell... their way. I ain't gonna give these homeless drug addicts a dime."

It is? where is all the anti-drug propaganda? I dont see it on TV or anywhere. I see Hollywood and the Entertainment "industry" making films glorifying or laughing about Drugs. And they've done so for 50 years. You have politicans (cf John bonehead) heading up companies selling legalized MJ. you have our best and the brightest pushing for legalized Heroin and cocaine.

See anyone trying to stop drugs coming over our Southern border? Nope. The rich and powerful don't care. They love that cheap foreign labor.

So, a lot "losers" as you call them, get addicted and sometimes die. X percent of the population are "addictive personalities", what used to be called "men of weak character". They need to protected from themselves. Of course, if you don't care if "losers" die, then sad for you. Who do you care about, other than yourself?

And even if you don't care, you should care about how much all this is costing us in terms of medical care and lost productivity. Think of how many bombs we could send Ukraine or Israel if we lowered medicare costs! Maybe, that will get you on board.

Bornatnightbutnotlastnight said...

It seems like he drowned. I would not blame this on ketamine, per se.

Drug overdose deaths are due mostly to respiratory depression. Apparently, he had opiods in his system, which are the likely culprits if he stopped breathing de novo.

If he could not keep his head above water, that could be anything, including ketamine.

Ketamine is a great drug in the right hands...just ask the Thai Cave boys.

MayBee said...

rcocean at 7:28-

I couldn't agree more.

Mary Beth said...

She said
"I know what it's like to be dead
I know what it is to be sad"
And she's making me feel like I've never been born.