Says one commenter at the Washington Post article "Modern meeting etiquette: Wear pants, beware of tech lag, chat sparingly/Nine etiquette tips to help you navigate the rules for modern meetings in the era of hybrid work."
Jump back on... that lingo disturbs me, and I'm retired. Nobody can nudge me about "jumping" on camera. But I understand the problem well enough to find TikTok's #CorporateErin endlessly hilarious.
@lisabevolving Hi, #CorporateErin ♬ original sound - Lisa Beasley
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Journolistic behavioral guidelines to navigate a socially... physically distanced workplace for privileged minorities. #Religion
Our society is now a low-trust society and everyone is putting in the bare minimum. I recall the book Bowling Alone: The Collapse and Revival of American Community by Robert Putnam in which he alludes to what you're seeing in this post, and did so 23 years ago. People could see the signs where this was headed long ago.
It's going to get worse.
Are you sure this TikTok isn't a parody?
All the buzzwords and gesturing look more like a comedy sketch than a serious business meeting.
"Jump back on... that lingo disturbs me."
The lingo that disturbs me is "dropped" for when a new album or show or whatever has been released.
What makes much more sense--and I mentally dub over "dropped" every time--is LANDED.
His new album just landed. Her new book just landed. Their new series just landed.
A company that works by meetings winds up managed by people who like meetings.
I never understood why simple phone calls weren't fine.
Did anyone tell Jeffrey Toobin these rules?
RideSpaceMountain said... 12/4/23, 10:40 AM
Alvin Toffler wrote Future Shock in 1970. :-)
"Are you sure this TikTok isn't a parody?"
Of course, it's a parody. How could you think I thought otherwise?
The reason I wrote "But I understand the problem well enough" is that I don't have direct experience with the things she is making fun of.
Holy smokes is offensive to Catholics.
"You can't put on 'work clothes' (whatever those are today)? You can't put yourself together the way you would if you went to an actual office?"
I could, but I don't want to. So when I don't have to, I don't
Gag me with a spoon.
I can't do corporate performance. Or more accurately stated: I refuse to do corporate performance.
Ann Althouse said...
"Are you sure this TikTok isn't a parody?"
Of course, it's a parody. How could you think I thought otherwise?
I could believe it is real because I have experienced worse, particularly when we first forced to work from home during COVID.
In reference to being onscreen, I never turned on my video. It was never an issue because our systems were not reliable enough for the first couple of months so my superiors could never make an issue of it. I eventually moved up my retirement a few years because I hated working from home so bad.
I was the last person to work out of the office during COVID. We had been doing telecons for years only on video in conference rooms, always audio only from desk. When I was forced to work from home, I never turned on the video. Not an issue for many months because our systems couldn't handle the bandwidth. I hated working from home retired 3 years earlier than planned.
I've listened to dozens of calls like these. Three-six people, usually. After listening to three or four, I could jump in and contribute at least as much as the regulars.
These are very senior people in a very powerful organization that affects the functioning of the US economy. They have almost never been in the actual "office" since Covid shut down the Big Apple.
IMO, 80 percent of conversation revolves around complimenting each other and noting how well specific strategies and decisions reflect commitment to DEI. If I was actually introduced as a "New Guy", almost 100 percent of conversation would focus on welcoming me.
Nothing moves forward until everyone is cheerfully on board. About 75 percent of particpants are female.
Just my observations.
I do appreciate the way the TikTok'er pronounces her the letter r. Very Valley.
But it grates on my nerrrves verrry quickly.
Ann, thanks for the correction.
However, I've participated in recent video meetings that were so similar in content to the TikTok that it's become difficult to distinguish reality from parody.
I guess it's a good thing I'm mostly retired and exempt from most video meetings.
The zoomification of bullshit jobs. How can we make bullshit even more bullshitty?
On the Phenomenon of Bullshit Jobs: A Work Rant
by David Graeber
Extra vague TL;DR: Still, somehow, it happens.
The Tik Tok is humorous, but a bit lengthy, which is saying something for Tik Tok. But perhaps it seemed long, because I've seen the non-parody version at work, so it gets old again fast.
It is interesting that WaPo notes "Tech Lag" and the commenter complains about cameras not being on. Most of my coworkers and I turn off the camera during meetings because it simply uses unnecessary bandwidth. Previous generations managed just fine with a telephone and fax machine, because we knew older generations did fine with telegraphs and postal mail.
In my mind, the commenter complaining about cameras is wearing a mask to protect from covid even when sitting alone in front of their computer for Zoom meetings. The camera is on so their virtue can be clearly signaled.
I’ve done the jump off jump back on thing. A great thing about Zoom calls is that you can continue to work, answer emails, have breakfast or lunch, or do whatever, all while “attending” a company meeting. It’s a real productivity enhancer. As it’s been three years since Jeffrey Toobin taught us the extreme downside to not turning off the camera and mic while doing things, I am surprised that jumping off to eat and pick your teeth is something that still has to be taught.
I did a lot of online meetings with remote workers and customers before the pandemic introduced us all to Zoom. In those not-so-distant days, we mostly stuck to voices and shared computer screens when it was useful for other people in the meeting to see what was on your computer. For most online meetings, nothing is lost from reverting to those practices. I suppose it’s could be taken as an insult to display that you don’t think the online meeting rates your video presence, but the people who are offended by things like that need to get over themselves.
Today I had an online department meeting conducted in the traditional go around the room and discuss what is on your plate style. One of the women in our group put up a chat saying she was stepping away to get a glass of water, then came back on to inform us that she had dropped the glass, and needed to clean up the broken glass and spilled water in her kitchen. The right way to do that is just not come back until you have cleaned up your mess and let everyone assume you are having technical difficulties.
I won't do Zoom with a camera. I'm happy to do in person. Fortunately, my job doesn't make this a problem.
It's a way to control employees without the effort of getting them in one place.
I use a still photograph in online meetings, never video — if people don’t like it they’ve never said so, and it wouldn’t matter to me anyway.
'A company that works by meetings winds up managed by people who like meetings.'
My wife worked at a company where her boss held all meetings with everyone standing up.
Nobody get comfortable for a long slog.
Say what you need to say and get back to work.
"Holy smokes is offensive to Catholics."
But it's essential to Rastas.
"I could believe it is real because I have experienced worse, particularly when we first forced to work from home during COVID.'
I think that is the best way to do that comedy, to actually be exactly like the real people who do it. Some of the best comic actors follow that approach.
But if someone were this ludicrous in real life, how would it end up on TikTok, with just that one person? Maybe it could. Maybe you could get video of your annoying coworker and put it up to humiliate them.
"However, I've participated in recent video meetings that were so similar in content to the TikTok that it's become difficult to distinguish reality from parody."
I think that's a tribute to her comic acting.
My corporate environment was using video conferencing well before it became de rigueur during Covid. No one has ever appeared live on screen in these conferences. The purpose for using video rather than just audio is to be able to share and discuss documentation (presentations, spreadsheets, etc.) - no one is using video in order to see other colleague’s smiling faces (but then, we are engineering oriented, not socially oriented). I have to admit to hearing a fair bit of this corporate jargon in some meetings, but that is coming from either higher level managers, or from those who aspire to those positions - the rest of us just speak plainly about what is on our minds.
>JRoberts said...
Are you sure this TikTok isn't a parody?<
Thanks for the tip off; that could have been embarrassing for me. I was thinking it was real mainly because she had the common name CorporateErin.
"Meetings" are the worst part of every job I've ever had. I just wanted them to be over with so I could get back to work. At least during Covid they could be by Zoom, which made them less miserable. One of the best things about retirement is that I never ever have to endure another "meeting."
Watching that made me feel queasy.
The problem with meetings is that *some* people like them and the rest of us let them fill up the space. They don't know how awful we think they are, and so it gets worse and worse. That's my theory.
Ann Althouse said...
“I said "endlessly hilarious." What more can I say?“
Endless- not for me. I jumped off before she was done. Not b/c I didn’t appreciate her- but, the constant tic shtick was causing me to hyperventilate!!
I’ve never been so thankful to shovel shit &pull tits for a living!!
"Of course, it's a parody. How could you think I thought otherwise?"
"I said 'endlessly hilarious.' What more can I say?"
Well, not everyone instinctively gets parody- any commenter has to be aware of this, right? I quit assuming people automatically understood something was parody after witnessing people not understanding something was parody about a billion times in a row (I am being hyperbolic with that number......just a tiny bit). Additionally, it would be endlessly hilarious (even if maddening) even if the Tik Tokker wasn't parodying corporate behavior because what she does in her videos are things and attitudes I have seen real people do authentically during my previous journies through corporate work.
As I have written multiple times over the years, parody is a dying art because reality is drowning it in a tub, setting its body on fire, and burying in the woods with lime.
For a more professional take on how to behave online in corporate world, https://www.youtube.com/@loewhaley is wonderful.
Toodaloo.
My former manager would demand that all of us have our cameras on during our weekly staff meetings. It did not go unnoticed that when his bosses scheduled online production meetings, he usually had his camera off.
The problem with most meetings is that they are very inefficient. I would get an invite for an hour long meeting for a show and when they got down the list to lighting, I would usually have to say, "I still don't have a light plot from the designer, so I have noting to report." Most online meetings were a total waste of my time. (For example: I didn't need to know the status of the contracts with all the performers.)
Ann Althouse said...
"I think that is the best way to do that comedy, to actually be exactly like the real people who do it. Some of the best comic actors follow that approach."
Exactly. In acting class they taught us to never play for laughs. Become the character and the laughs will naturally occur.
I was on a team working from multiple locations and eventually spanning the Atlantic not just before Zoom and COVID but also when video-conferencing involved big rooms with special connectivity software, cameras, and big screen TV. We managed just fine with audio only meetings and sharing presentations via email. Actual shared desktops was a great productivity enhancement, especially in troubleshooting situations.
I do think the big wigs used video-conferencing largely for the 'gee-whiz' factor, especially in the days of cheap airfare.
Re Althouse 12:29 and the problem with meetings... Indeed. The value of simply having them as background noise without video is the ability to utilize that time in a better way.
My wife just got off an hour-long meeting. She was texting other participants during the call. All those just "listening in", felt like the whole event could have lasted 15 minutes or better yet just send an email with the form they wanted filled out and a list of people they wanted managers to track down and fill out the form. But no, the managers had to hear about all the hard work that went into creating the form and why it is soooo important. They tuned out, and eventually began to just critique the speaker in another forum using a different method of communication.
1. Mr. Pants was on a call with a client the other day who shared his screen, apparently not knowing or caring that the tab showing OnlyFans on his browser was visible
2. Mr. Pants was on a call which included the company's senior leadership in which a junior associate was wearing a Snuggie(TM)
3. Mr. Pants and I are well past the point where we are ready to, in the words of the great philosopher, "grow beards, get weird, and disappear into the mountains; ain't nothin but clowns round here"
4. I do not watch TikTok videos, ever, and neither should any of you, but the R sound from the TikTok comedienne which someone complained about is likely what is referred to as the "crispy R" for which the imbecile TikTok generation is becoming notorious and is nearly as infuriating to listen to as uptalk and vocal fry
Happy Advent! He will bring us goodness and light!
The Toobinization of America!
Will the circlejerk be unbroken?
Ann Althouse said...Of course, it's a parody. How could you think I thought otherwise?
It can be hard to tell. For instance, you've probably heard of the Simple Sabotage Field Guide. What makes it funny is how much of this sabotage we actually see in our offices.
CIA’s Simple Sabotage Field Manual: A Timeless Guide to Subverting Any Organization with “Purposeful Stupidity” (1944)
A sample:
1) Insist on doing everything through “channels.” Never permit short-cuts to be taken in order to expedite decisions.
2) Make “speeches.” Talk as frequently as possible and at great length. Illustrate your “points” by long anecdotes and accounts of personal experiences.
3) When possible, refer all matters to committees, for “further study and consideration.”
4) Bring up irrelevant issues as frequently as possible.
5) Haggle over precise wordings of communications, minutes, resolutions.
6) Refer back to matters decided upon at the last meeting and attempt to re-open the question of the advisability of that decision.
7) Advocate “caution.” Be “reasonable” and urge your fellow-conferees to be “reasonable” and avoid haste which might result in embarrassments or difficulties later on.
"I said "endlessly hilarious." What more can I say?"
Real-life can't be hilarious? Is it the 'endlessly' that sends the message?
CIA’s Simple Sabotage Field Manual: A Timeless Guide to Subverting Any Organization with “Purposeful Stupidity” (1944)
This was an actual how-to manual (unlike "1984"), and it seems the United States has decided to adopt it in almost every major business setting and governmental bureaucracy with loads of assistance from our media.
BTW, link via Althouse Amazon portal to CIA's Simple Sabotage Field Manual. $7 for 44 pages to study how you are being screwed.
I've worked remotely for three years now. Once with camera, once without.
Without we talk, we share screens, but we're just avatars and frankly it works so much better. The conversations are that much more casual and the barrier to call is very low, and non-judgemental. We get together physically once or twice a month to put faces to avatars.
Some of this is down to the organisation's culture. The "with" one was terrible, whereas the "without" one has hit a sweet spot.
Lordy, that was hilarious and like others, although I assumed it was snark/parody, I checked her feed to make sure.
The video that followed was her "apologizing" for purchasing $35K worth of Starbucks gift cards and then finding out that many employees were boycotting Starbucks. Classic sorry/not sorry.
I now follow @lisabevolving on Twitter.
Thanks Althouse!
“CIA’s Simple Sabotage Field Manual: A Timeless Guide to Subverting Any Organization with “Purposeful Stupidity” (1944)”
But the CIA was not created until after war II, was it the OSS guide or the ONI guide?
There's no reason to be on camera if what you're doing could have been a conference call. It doesn't matter how great you look that day, there's no need to perform a silent film of Being on a Call. Get off the camera. Pace around. Eliminate the distraction of staring at faces staring at cameras. Live your life.
loudogblog:
Exactly. In acting class they taught us to never play for laughs. Become the character and the laughs will naturally occur.
I give you Young Frankenstein and Igor. Not sure Feldman would agree with the class.
Overly long or frequent staff meetings are for managers who can't. Specifically, understand their job is also gathering staff information, not just disbursing orders. A meeting is their way of getting around gathering it individually and unobtrusively.
But yeah, I've worked with more than one of her. She like nailed it.
Corporate Erin has the voice down exactly.
I've been using Zoom-like teleconning for years, too, since I've worked with foreign colleagues a lot, plus the pseudo-academic world I exist in has colleagues at various locations anyway.
Still trying to figure out the etiquette behind camera/no-camera. Some of them, we all (mostly) have our cameras on, others nearly everyone has theirs off. I tend to turn mine on because it feels more like an actual meeting. Or perhaps it's the number of people involved -- fewer people tend to have cameras on, larger ones, most have them off.
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