“You looked around television in those years,” Mr. Lear said in a 2012 New York Times interview, referring to the middle and late 1960s, “and the biggest problem any family faced was ‘Mother dented the car, and how do you keep Dad from finding out’; ‘the boss is coming to dinner, and the roast’s ruined.’ The message that was sending out was that we didn’t have any problems.”
ADDED: I've written about Norman Lear on this blog a few times:
July 27, 2022: I blogged Norman Lear's NYT piece — "On My 100th Birthday, Reflections on Archie Bunker and Donald Trump" — and said: "Lear says Archie, if he were around today, would probably watch Fox News and vote for Trump. Probably?! He also imagines that Archie would have disapproved of the January 6th incursion on the Capitol. But why? Seems to me he'd approve, but Lear doesn't want him to, so okay. "
May 23, 2019: I'd missed the show, and I blogged “What you missed on ABC's live version of 'All in the Family' and 'The Jeffersons.'" Somehow Marisa Tomei played Edith and Woody Harrelson played Archie. Then Jamie Foxx was George Jefferson. Do you remember that?
November 4, 2018: Norman Lear, introducing Andrew Gillum, the Democratic Party nominee for governor in Florida, said "My God... he’s black," and I said maybe Lear, at 96, "has the privilege to use the sort of humor that Americans less obviously close to the end no longer risk."
November 23, 2010: Back when Bristol Palin was on "Dancing with the Stars," Sally Quinn wrote a piece about it in The Washington Post and name-dropped Norman Lear: "We were having a dinner party and I made my guests leave the table to watch the final half of DWTS. Norman Lear was with us. Norman is not a DWTS follower but got caught up in the moment too...."
May 12, 2005: All the way back in the 2d year of this blog, I quoted something Lear himself wrote. It was about how Democrats could feel good again.
November 4, 2018: Norman Lear, introducing Andrew Gillum, the Democratic Party nominee for governor in Florida, said "My God... he’s black," and I said maybe Lear, at 96, "has the privilege to use the sort of humor that Americans less obviously close to the end no longer risk."
November 23, 2010: Back when Bristol Palin was on "Dancing with the Stars," Sally Quinn wrote a piece about it in The Washington Post and name-dropped Norman Lear: "We were having a dinner party and I made my guests leave the table to watch the final half of DWTS. Norman Lear was with us. Norman is not a DWTS follower but got caught up in the moment too...."
May 12, 2005: All the way back in the 2d year of this blog, I quoted something Lear himself wrote. It was about how Democrats could feel good again.
Lear had written: "I have had it with elected officials depending on polls and focus groups and fingers in the wind to instruct them as to what direction they should take us. We sent them ‘to the hill’ from which, presumably, they are the ones with the 360 degree view. In their emotionally crowded lives, average working class voters should be able to rely on those they send to the hill to get the complete picture, and then have the courage to lead. To lead, not return to them for instructions. I cringe for that great body of voters every time I hear them disparaged --'Can't they see they're voting against their own self-interest?'-- by us Democrats, liberals, progressives, whatever we are calling ourselves at the moment. We owe them empathy, understanding, leadership."
I paraphrased him like this: "Translation: Stop hand-wringing about why the great mass of people can't understand things and just tell them how it's going to be. Then, instead of that nasty feeling you have now -- caused by thinking the American people are stupid -- you can start feeling good -- thinking what a fine, empathetic person you are for respecting the way ordinary people devote themselves to family and work and not to politics."
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54 comments:
in "the middle and late 1960s, “the biggest problem any family faced was ‘Mother dented the car, and how do you keep Dad from finding out’; ‘the boss is coming to dinner, and the roast’s ruined.’"
I was 14 in 1965 and yeah, it was pretty much like that. Most kids had a mother and father. Pupils actually learned something in school. Crime was miniscule by today's standards. Those were the days.
--- "The message that was sending out was that we didn’t have any problems.”
Norman Lear and his ilk sure fixed that one, didn't they? A master propagandist, the Leni Riefenstahl of his generation, Lear and his smug scripts and laugh tracks convinced any wavering Baby Boomers who were not sure if progressivism was really the right prescription for the nation that all the best people knew it. And how could the best people be wrong? C'mon, get on board, little lads and ladies.
If not the birth of WOKEness, it was for sure the incubation for it. And NOW we DO have problems!
Your first three posts arguably involve unexpected outcomes- people claiming they aren’t authoritarians becoming and admiring authoritarians and, in the case of Norman Lear, creating a beloved character (Archie Bunker), who embodies everything that you were trying to mock. A government program spending huge amounts and accomplishing nothing, however, is not surprising. A better question is, what was the money spent on?
Archie Bunker was right!
I stumbled across the first episode of All In The Family in 1971.
I was shocked at what I saw and heard there. I didn’t think they could do that stuff on broadcast tv
Rightly or wrongly, I'm inclined to defend 60s sitcoms that don't involve debates about the Pill, abortion, Nixon, the Vietnam War and the draft.
Lots of depictions of the somewhat bland and monotonous suburbs. Except that behind closed doors, they're more interesting than you might think. Is it confining and maddening for women to stay at home, worrying about the roast? Does this get funnier if the wife is a genie or a witch, with magical powers? If the nuclear family spends a fair bit of time together, do they discover just how obnoxious everyone is, like an endless Thanksgiving dinner? Is there a desire for men to spend time with men, bowling or whatever? Women with women? Then there was a nostalgic look at the recent rural past, hillbillies and all that. Andy Griffith: a nice village in the Dixie South, but apparently no Jim Crow laws.
How to keep secrets in a world in which there are very few secrets? Were we close to a utopia where there were no real "social problems" to speak of? Did "All in the Family" bring to the forefront some bitter, divisive issues, often dividing generations, without offering much in the way of solutions? Maybe the biggest change was from boomers as children to boomers in their 20s; hardly anyone wanted to touch the nightmare of boomers in their teens.
Addams Family, and its silly imitator the Munsters. Like Hitchcock and those Douglas Sirk melodramas: when you scratch the surface, don't you find deep longings for true romance and passion, even if they are dangerous? Can you imagine sitting on a jury and finding that murder is a reasonable solution, on the whole, in some cases? I think these are more lasting or deeper questions than Vietnam and all that. Being "relevant" is like endlessly debating Kissinger's career. Kissinger saw himself in the great tradition of somewhat cynical diplomats like Talleyrand and Metternich. Rightly or wrongly, he thought a democratic populace could be educated about such matters. Maybe or maybe not; probably not by way of sitcoms.
He will always have a warm spot in my heart for bringing us Archie Bunker.
A few observations on All in the Family
1. There is no way that the show would be made today.
2. Archie Bunker was the first anti-hero. In some ways his character probably informed Tony Soprano.
3. The real villain in the show was Mike Stivic. He was everything Archie accused him of being. He and Archie were equally closed minded but at least Archie believed in the importance of supporting his family and at his core was a good and compassionate man. Mike was none of those.
4. I always wondered why Archie was made a Protestant. Everything about the Bunkers, except for the one child, screams Irish-Catholic.
5.Archie Bunker to Sammie Davis Jr.: “Ah Sammie, I know you can’t help being black, but what made you turn Jew” is a very funny line.
I was teenager when All in the Family aired.
My parents were nothing like Archie and Edith, but they seemed like real people. Archie Bunker was supposed to be the retrograde conservative, but we liked him and he occasionally made sense. Edith was a dingbat, but she had a deep strength. Rob Reiner was the progressive voice, and closer to Norman Lear's actual outlook, but he was called "Meathead". Genius. Nobody is all good or all bad.
My late in-laws, not Americans, loved All in the Family, which they saw as a drama with Archie Bunker as the hero. Lear was, to his chagrin, aware of this misunderstanding of his satire.
Oh yeah, Archie was a MAGA moron down to every cell of his body.
The two best American sitcoms of the 60s (in my correct opinion) were THE DICK VAN DYKE SHOW and THE ANDY GRIFFITH SHOW throughout the years Don Knotts was in the cast.
There are a lot more Archie Bunkers out there.
And that so depresses the left
Thank the Lord for both those things.
"Lear had written: "I have had it with elected officials depending on polls and focus groups and fingers in the wind to instruct them as to what direction they should take us. We sent them ‘to the hill’ from which, presumably, they are the ones with the 360 degree view. In their emotionally crowded lives, average working class voters should be able to rely on those they send to the hill to get the complete picture, and then have the courage to lead. To lead, not return to them for instructions. I cringe for that great body of voters every time I hear them disparaged --'Can't they see they're voting against their own self-interest?'-- by us Democrats, liberals, progressives, whatever we are calling ourselves at the moment. We owe them empathy, understanding, leadership."
I paraphrased him like this: "Translation: Stop hand-wringing about why the great mass of people can't understand things and just tell them how it's going to be. Then, instead of that nasty feeling you have now -- caused by thinking the American people are stupid -- you can start feeling good -- thinking what a fine, empathetic person you are for respecting the way ordinary people devote themselves to family and work and not to politics."
I'll paraphrase Lear more succinctly: "Leaders decide how you need to live. Deal with it."
Norman Lear never could figure out why Archie was so popular. If he'd stepped out of his bubble, he might have found out.
Lots of T-shirts with Archie back in the day. I don't recall any with Meathead.
Lear fully expected audiences to reject Archie Bunker as a fool and an ignoramus. He was shocked at its success. The same phenomenon occurred with Forrest Gump. The audiences identified with Forrest,not because he was retarded but because he was sincere and the others, like his girlfriend, often destroyed themselves.
Passing Out the Pistols,
Archie had some good solid advice on dealing with hijackers,
Archie Bunker's Editorial on Gun Control,
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-lDb0Dn8OXE
"The message that was sending out was that we didn’t have any problems.”
Imagine a time when we didn't spend every waking hour dwelling on society's shortcomings? Who could survive such a hell on earth?
I did love Archie and can still quote his lines from heart:
* When son-in-law Meathead quoted gun death statistics: "Would it be better if they were all shoved out of windows?"
* "She (Edith) took off like a dingbat out of hell."
* "Sticks and stones may break my bones but Franklin Delano Roosevelt."
* "Richard E. Nixon"
"But why? Seems to me he'd approve, but Lear doesn't want him to, so okay. "
Lot's of Trump supporters didn't support going inside the capitol on Jan 6th.
There is no actual reason to believe that Trump supported it.
So why would you be surprised that Archie as known by Lear would not support it.
What I suspect Archie would not support is the ridiculous over the top descriptions of Jan 6 as somehow more than a minor and not particularly destructive riot or the treatment of the rioters by the courts. How many people in this country still believe that a capitol police officer was beaten to death with a fire extinguisher?
Rightly or wrongly, he thought a democratic populace could be educated about such matters. Maybe or maybe not; probably not by way of sitcoms.
In theory, this could work. In practice, it is abundantly clear that, for whatever reason, the creative arts can't tolerate nuance or conflicting views.
Joke writers are some of the angriest, most dysfunctional people around. Keep that in mind when Stephen Colbert or a network sitcom deploys humor to teach you right and wrong.
The creation of Archie Bunker was an act of unintentional genius by Lear, who never fully understood what his creative subconscious had unearthed. It was amazingly, accidentally, perceptive.
Carroll O'Connor was picture-perfect in the role. I could never see him play other characters, before or after, that didn't make me think of Archie Bunker, even when the characters were well-played and believable. And O'Connor was no slouch as an actor.
It's also funny how The Meathead has made his role into his life's work and passion. I guess he was perfect in the role as well - but in a different, more unfortunate way. You could put him on the set and ask him a question about Donald Trump and his response would be completely in character.
I also identified Archie and Edith as Irish Catholic by disposition.
Lear was a brilliant producer-businessman who made a zilliond dollars off his TV shows. As a comedy writer he was mediocre. Fortunately for him, he was able to steal the ideas for Sanford and Son, All in Family, and "one day at a time" from British TV. I suppose you can give him a certain amount of credit for adopting them well to USA TV, but its a lower level of talent.
I gotta admit that other than the first 5 years of All in the Family, and a few good episodes of Sanford and Son (i loved Aunt esther, Foxx was responsible for her), I hated most lear comedies as a Kid, and dislike them to this day: one day a time, good times, pablo something, Chico and the man, Maude, the Jeffersons, and various spinoffs). All the shows had lots of shouting, vulgar (for the 70s) jokes, and minimal humor.
Lear also got into fights with his main stars, Foxx and O'Connor because he wanted to squeeze every nickle out of show and underpay the men who made him rich.
Its amazing what Crap people liked back then. I tried to watch a rerun of Maude 15 years ago, and it was so horrible, I turned it off after 10 minutes.
As someone said, you can never go broke underestimating the taste of the USA public, and that fact made Lear a fortune.
Archie was crass and his opponent responded in kind. Everyone could see both sides of the argument. That's what we loved, the free speech, not that Archie was a boor.
And thus, Trump is also explained if the world's Meatheads would get some perspective.
Who approves of the January 6th riot? Archie wouldn't have.
OTOH, like so much else associated with Trump's presidency, it has further established the extent of corruption as well as incompetence of Democrats and their toadies among the police, the FBI, the DOJ, the Jan 6th Committee, and the federal judiciary.
The downside is that, evidently, nothing can be done about it.
Gloria: I think it’s wonderful that our new neighbors the Jeffersons are black!
Archie: Oh yeah little girl? Just wait and see how wonderful it is when the watermelon rinds come flying out the windows!
We watched AITF and Sanford when I was still at home but I missed almost all the hit sitcoms of the '70s and '80s. I was too busy, and for a many years my wife and I didn't own a TV.
It's interesting to me to see how much and how powerfully mere sitcoms (or movies) can affect people.
FWIW I always thought making the Bunkers vaguely Not-Catholic was the only safe way to approach the issue of religion.
He had a good war record. RIP.
Van Dyke is still alive; Franco still dead.
"The message that was sending out was that we didn’t have any problems.”
Yeah, well. Norm and his liberal buddies took care of that.
Aggie said...
“I also identified Archie and Edith as Irish Catholic by disposition.”
Hmm. Archie was working class, Episcopalian, and Republican. This does seem like an odd combination for the time. And a blue collar Irish Catholic being Republican would have been rare.
As a kid, he reminded me of the blue collar Appalachians who migrated to Cincinnati for work in the factories between the early 1900s thru the 1980s. Definitely not Catholic, and at times biased against Catholicism. Definitely not Episcopalian, either. Usually Baptist or some other similar denomination.
From now on, when I, lovingly mind you, call a poster "Meathead," you should know I am addressing Robert Cook.
Constructive thing I can think to say: I like to speculate what the world would be like without his influence...
"And a blue collar Irish Catholic being Republican would have been rare."
I grew up around a lot, I mean a lot, of Irish Catholic working-class families. Very few of them were liberal, and most of them were ambivalently conservative, some rather extremely conservative.
Conservative Democrats were much more common then, in my experience. Although in fairness, I guess Archie did rail against the pope from time to time.
"Lear fully expected audiences to reject Archie Bunker as a fool and an ignoramus. He was shocked at its success."
Lear apparently didn't know that a great percentage of the American population are fools and ignoramuses--witness the outpouring of ignorant love for DT--and so he didn't expect they would identify with Archie.
Also, unlike the British tv shows that were the models for ALL IN THE FAMILY and SANFORD AND SON, (and Brit tv shows in general), Lear's shows (and American tv shows in general) were sentimentalized. The purportedly "hateful" attitudes and language of Archie were softened by the lack of venom in the actor's performance and by story lines that showed Archie's language was not really backed up my comparable actual animosity or even hatred. American writers and producers want their protagonists to be "relatable," (i.e., likable), so they do not present truly nasty primary protagonists. British writers, actors, and producers are much more willing to present protagonists who are truly nasty and hateful than are American actors, writers, and producers. (Also, it is a truth about human nature: people who hold truly hateful ideas can also be, in other contexts, generous and likable neighbors and friends.)
Archie was made a generic protestant, because the Catholic Church (at that time) was powerful enough to have pushed back against such a negative sterotype. Lear was obviously going after the famous NYC "hard hats" who socially conservative and patriotic.
Not only is O'Connor look Irish, but the idea of a Protestant working man in Queens having his views or even living there, is absurd.
Lear copied the British series:Till Death Us Do Part, Archie is made a little more likable and not as racist as his UK counterpart.
People might have disagreed with Archie Bunker's politics and laughed at his foibles but that character, a blue collar conservative of the old school, was loved by the American people.
That era is quickly coming to an end.
Today all of popular culture and social media and mainstream news is designed not to laugh at all of our stupid opinions and our stereotypical shortcomings, but to believe that people who think differently are morally reprehensible enemies that need to be hated with a passion.
Fortunately the great silent majority of this wonderful country has not been infected by this toxic mind virus.
I won't directly speak ill of the dead, nor celebrate this man's death. But it is a good thing for our country that his influence on our culture and politics is at an end.
He was funny.
Seemed like an honest liberal...
Sadly, the 2005 HuffPo link is dead. That was the best one.
The Bunkers had a piano. How many homes is America have one of those now?
Seems to me a bunch of people are flying right over the obvious reason Archie and Edith couldn't have been styled as working-class, generic euro-ethnic, and Catholic. That combination just screamed 'Democrat' in the early 1970s, and there was no way Lear was going to sabotage the 'Southern Strategy' theory by highlighting there were just as many racists north of the Mason-Dixon as south of it.
We could use a man like Archie Bunker again.
And which of you agrees that Robert Cook makes the perfect Meathead?
I think Christopher B nails it at 300--he puts clearly something that was murky to me. They were walking a fine line.
Beverly Hillbillies, Green Acres, Bewitched, I Dream of Jeannie, etc. Sweet, funny, without a mean bone in their bodies. Lear brought us the put-down insult sitcom. I could have done without Lear’s gift to humanity.
Gee whiz! Our Euripides is gone
Archie Bunker was a mile marker on the road to Trump. I never much cared for All In the Family. My tastes ran more toward The Waltons. John Walton (played by Ralph Waite) was such a positive portrayal of fatherhood, which by 1970s TV was becoming rare.
Oh yeah, Archie was a MAGA moron down to every cell of his body.
Well that would certainly explain his incredible popularity, wouldn't it?
Maybe if you didn't look down your nose at everybody - and got out of your bubble a bit more - you'd realize your statement was an own-goal.
The Sammy Davis Jr. episode is imo the greatest single episode ever. Not just for All in the Family. The GOAT of all television comedies ever aired.
What Hassayamper said.
Archie wasn't that bad, but Meathead is as wrong today as he was then.
Archie wasn't that bad a person, and his outdated views were at least subject to revision as he experienced modern life. Meathead, on the other hand, was a stupid ideologue who never learned anything.
I recall only once when Meathead made sense: He and Archie argued about how to put on socks and shoes in an emergency. Meathead actually made some sense, for once.
Regardless of how he did it, Lear got eyeballs, got ratings and made a lot of money for corporate America. You know, like Monday Night Football. Meathead wasn't any more annoying than players running to the end-zone to perform some choreographed mugging to a camera.
I would seriously love to be in Jewish Hollywood right now to see how they are going to deal with one of the Jewish Lions of Hollywood dying after having converted to Catholicism a couple years ago. Will they all go to the requiem mass?
Lear's conversion to Catholicism shows miracles do happen. Maybe there's even hope for Bergoglio before he dies .
I enjoyed Archie (born 1955) though a half-assed country hippy. Sally Struthers, my god. Then came Adrienne Barbeau.
I later read Carroll O'Conner's autobiography and found him an interesting man and a true acting professional. While not sympathetic to some of his liberal POV, he did seem within the bounds of reason.
Lear I viewed with much less sympathy as I did many of his later projects. Converted to Catholicism? American Jewry has grown strange. My guess is that they'll embrace Hamas and contribute financially to pro antisemitism studies.
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