December 8, 2023

"Entrepreneur Vivek Ramaswamy repeatedly challenged [Nikki] Haley to name 'three provinces in Eastern Ukraine that they [she and Biden] want to send our troops to actually fight for.'"

"Neither have said they want to send troops — Ramaswamy also falsely asserted 'these people want to send your sons and daughters to go die in Ukraine, they’ve been arguing for it for a year' — but Haley eventually mentioned these names. She missed with Crimea, which was illegally annexed by Russia in 2014, though to be fair Ramaswamy asked her to name three provinces, not 'the three provinces' of eastern Ukraine. The third province in eastern Ukraine is Kharkiv — which Ukraine liberated in a stunning counteroffensive in 2022."

Writes Glenn Kessler, "Fact-checking the fourth Republican presidential debate" (WaPo).

ALSO:

87 comments:

wendybar said...

How false is it really??


Tucker Carlson
@TuckerCarlson
The Biden administration is openly threatening Americans over Ukraine. In a classified briefing in the House yesterday, defense secretary Lloyd Austin informed members that if they don’t appropriate more money for Zelensky, “we’ll send your uncles, cousins and sons to fight Russia.” Pay the oligarchs or we’ll kill your kids.

Mark said...

Two days later, a paywalled outlet demonized by Republicans does a fact check, lol

Vivek got his talking points out successfully, as his supporters gleefully gave each other high fives here about this very point.

RideSpaceMountain said...

As of yesterday, "the Biden administration is now openly threatening Americans over Ukraine."

(https://www.timesnownews.com/world/defense-secretary-lloyd-austin-threatened-to-send-us-troops-to-fight-russia-if-ukraine-aid-not-sent-tucker-carlson-article-105823803)

In a meeting in the house yesterday, Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin informed members that if they don't appropriate more money for Volodomyr "I am actually America's highest paid government employee" Zelensky that, "We'll send your uncles, cousins and sons to fight Russia."

It's official. Support Ukraine or we'll kill your kids.

The Crack Emcee said...

Glenn Greenwald for President.

RideSpaceMountain said...

Henry Kissinger was more right than he thought when he said “Being an enemy of the United States is dangerous, but being a friend is fatal."

It's now "Being a friend of the United States is dangerous, but being a patriotic citizen is fatal."

Nuclear fire. The whole thing. I hope DC gets razed to the ground.

mikee said...

Fact checking?! What next, grading performance by how well they did in the swimsuit competition?

n.n said...

Crimea, which was illegally defended by Russia following the American-backed coup in Kiev, in the woke (sic) of Obama/Biden/Clinton's world war ethnic Springs.

Iman said...

Glen “Mr. 4 Pinocchios” Kessler?

Balfegor said...

I'm a bit surprised she couldn't name any, since you can just name Donetsk, Luhansk, and Crimea and you're done. I looked at a map and you could also name Kherson and Kharkov (both famous due to Russian retreat/strategic withdrawal last year) Zaporizhia (the nuclear power plant), and . . . Dniepropetrovsk about which I can't recall anything. But you really have to be just totally disengaged from the news on the war to be unable to spit out the first three.

I would have though this a pretty risky gambit for Ramaswamy to use in realtime, but I guess he had Haley's measure and was confident she wouldn't be able to answer.

Misinforminimalism said...

That's like fact checking the lethality of the boulder dropping on Wile E. Coyote.

gilbar said...

how many US personnel are fighting there Already?
None, you say? What about all the CIA operatives?
Still None, you say? What about all the "private contractors" working as mercenaries?

Oh THOSE! you say.. Admitting that there are THOUSANDS of "private contractors" there..
"private contractors" PAID by the CIA.. "private contractors" that were in the US Army 2 years ago.

But.. OFFICIALLY, you say, their aren't ANY US Personnel fighting there NOW.
Just Army guys on leave that are now working for the CIA.. I mean working as "private contractors"

Now let's talk "Military Advisors".. Someone has to show them how to use all that US materiel..
But, Those guys are fighting.. They're just "Military Advisors". You know? Like in Vietnam

Freeman Hunt said...

Debates are entertainment pretending to be information.

Iman said...

Has Lloyd “Thaxton” Austin written his scathing letter yet… the one where he takes Putin to task?

RideSpaceMountain said...

When a man hath no freedom to fight for at home,
Let him fight for the corrupt doing favors;
Let him think of the glories of Greece and of Rome,
And get taxed out the ass for his labors.
To do good for NATO is the secretive plan,
And is always deplorably requited;
Then battle for freedom in fucking Ukraine!
And - if not shot or blown up - you’ll be spited.

- RideSpaceByron

Yancey Ward said...

That seals it, right- Haley is the candidate the Democrats want the GOP to put up.

n.n said...

Fact-checking WaPo in the aftermath of Russia-gate that was a cover-up of a coup and civil war, led by regimes in Kiev and aligned militant forces with western support through a model of shared/shifted responsibility targeting Crimea and Eastern provinces in Ukraine... accompanied with impeachments of an American president who inconveniently opposed their progress. Demos-cracy... democracy is aborted in darkness, indeed.

Ann Althouse said...

"I'm a bit surprised she couldn't name any, since you can just name Donetsk, Luhansk, and Crimea and you're done...."

As Kessler said, she "eventually" named three, but one of them was Crimea, and it was an incorrect answer because it had been "annexed by Russia in 2014" ("illegally").

Yancey Ward said...

Balfegor,

Your mistake is in thinking a politician is as well-informed as yourself. I quit being surprised at what politicians don't know a long, long time ago.

Ann Althouse said...

I think a lot of people feel that Haley never said any names of provinces, but she did, just not immediately.

Mike (MJB Wolf) said...

How about they clearly articulate exactly what Ukraine is fighting for and how we'll know when they win or lose? At first we were supposed to keep Russia out, but Biden cancelled the arms Trump had agreed to ship. Then it was to expel Russia. Then once the USA money spigots started flowing to the Ukrainian oligarchs, Zelenskyy changed course to say he wanted ALL the teritory stolen in the last ten years back.

Have we agreed to that? Is that Biden's and Austen's plan? Can we have an actual discussion without this disgusting president of ours demagoguing the issue? What exactly do Haley and Krispy say our objective is?

Kessler is a useless asshole. Two whole days to come up with that? I remember when they used to brag they were ready to "real-time fact check" Trump. That was worthless assholery on Kessler's part too. I second Misinforminimalism at 11:10. Meep meep.

tim maguire said...

Haley had the opportunity to do her own fact check. That she didn't does not reflect well on Kessler's effort.

Hassayamper said...

Did they point out that the people of the Donbass and Crimea are ethnic Russians whose lands were added to Ukraine within living memory, and want nothing to do with it, and suffered everything up to artillery bombardments for trying to exercise their right of self-determination long before the Russian invasion?

Joe Smith said...

I honestly don't care about what happens to a non-NATO, non-defense-allied nation.

Haley should be disqualified because of her constant playing of the 'I am woman, hear me roar' card.

So 1992...

Rich said...

Why am I the only person on this stage at least who can say that Jan. 6 now does look like it was an inside job?” ~ Vivek Ramaswamy

He’s right about something — J6 was orchestrated from the Trump WH and MAGA Republicans….

I think Vivek is conflicted about who he wants to be, serious thinker or Trump adjacent dictator. Like JD Vance, he worked hard to get an elite education, immersed himself in the world of billionaires, then quickly sold out to them to grab as much power, money and fame possible. Like JD, he could have been an effective and authentic voice for a beleaguered group of Americans. Both chose the other path.

gilbar said...

forever war
NATO allies will support Ukraine "for as long as it takes," secretary general says
Nato will stick with Ukraine as long as it takes, says Joe Biden
US president says he does not know how war will end


https://www.usnews.com/news/national-news/articles/2023-12-06/biden-help-ukraine-now-or-send-americans-to-fight-russia-with-nato-later

UK to support Ukraine 'for as long at it takes' - Cameron - BBC

https://www.foxnews.com/world/nato-chief-issues-vague-warning-ukraine-russia-war-prepared-bad-news

Ukraine war: Soldier tells BBC of front-line 'hell'
The Ukrainian soldier's quotes are below in bold.
Short presentational grey line

"The entire river crossing is under constant fire. I've seen boats with my comrades on board just disappear into the water after being hit, lost forever to the Dnipro river.

"We must carry everything with us - generators, fuel and food. When you're setting up a bridgehead you need a lot of everything, but supplies weren't planned for this area.
"We thought after we made it there the enemy would flee and then we could calmly transport everything we needed, but it didn't turn out that way.

"When we arrived on the [eastern] bank, the enemy were waiting. Russians we managed to capture said their forces were tipped off about our landing so when we got there, they knew exactly where to find us. They threw everything at us - artillery, mortars and flame thrower systems. I thought I'd never get out."


remember a few months ago? Back when loud people here Kept Saying: "The Ukrainians are Winning!"
what Ever happened to Those people? did they evaporate?

Yancey Ward said...

And who doesn't think it quite possible Haley did get the needed answers from her staff in the audience, just not when she really needed them?

Kathryn51 said...

My husband (DeSantis supporter) watched and I listened to parts. He thought his guy did very well, but didn't believe Haley was injured.

Was surprised to come to Althouse and the consensus was Haley was "toast".

She stood there for the first 15 minutes of the debate, being poked, smeared ("corrupt") and lied about and with a patient, little smile on her face.

All of the women watching knew what that smile communicated - especially all the white suburban women who would vote for her in an instant over any Dem (including Newsome).

Lem the artificially intelligent said...

The unequivocal tone of support from Biden all along this unnecessary fiasco can only be interpreted as a possibility for sending American troops over there. If you can’t see that, well you haven’t been paying close attention and you forgotten how we got sucked into going into Iraq.

My goodness. What is it about going to war that causes this kind of amnesia. I don’t think there’s anything else quite like it.

Drago said...

Dumb Lefty Mark: "Two days later, a paywalled outlet demonized by Republicans does a fact check, lol

Vivek got his talking points out successfully, as his supporters gleefully gave each other high fives here about this very point."

You appear to be attempting to make a point.

A candidate for President running on a platform of reducing new and forever wars calls out a neo-con forever war fangirl and challenges her on where she has said the US should send US troops...and she cant do it on the fly...thereby making Vivek's point concrete.

A lefty offers up a delayed "fact check" which mirrors Haley's delayed response...and you think this is...what?

LOL

Another "well thought out" (wink wink) Dumb Lefty Mark hot take!

Original Mike said...

"The Biden administration is openly threatening Americans over Ukraine. In a classified briefing in the House yesterday, defense secretary Lloyd Austin informed members that if they don’t appropriate more money for Zelensky, “we’ll send your uncles, cousins and sons to fight Russia.” Pay the oligarchs or we’ll kill your kids."

Yikes! That is a remarkable ting to say. Is that a direct quote?

Drago said...

Althouse: "As Kessler said, she "eventually" named three, but one of them was Crimea, and it was an incorrect answer because it had been "annexed by Russia in 2014" ("illegally")."

Crimea would have been a perfectly acceptable answer given the Ukrainian government's explicit goal to return Crimea to Ukraine along with the other contested oblasts.

And if Haley, who Hillary-esquely markets herself as a geo-political whiz kid with the Kissinger-esque experience and insight, couldn't respond immediately then she either froze (doubtful) or had a staffer zing her with a text cluing her in...hence the later answer.

Not a good look in either case.

Joe Biden Is Corrupt said...

Russian illegally 'annexed" a part of Ukraine - and who was US president?

who who who?

"annexed" is a word the media use to make it all A-OK and thumbs up for dear leader.

Chuck said...

Wendybar, anyone who now looks at that typically mendacious Tweet from Tucker Calrson will also see the Context addendum:

Tucker Carlson
@TuckerCarlson
·
21h
The Biden administration is openly threatening Americans over Ukraine. In a classified briefing in the House yesterday, defense secretary Lloyd Austin informed members that if they don’t appropriate more money for Zelensky, “we’ll send your uncles, cousins and sons to fight…

Show more
Readers added context they thought people might want to know
Context:

"...Austin warned Congress Tuesday that if lawmakers fail to pass more aid to Ukraine that it "very likely" will lead to U.S. troops on the ground in Europe defending NATO allies in other countries Russia may target next."

themessenger.com/politics/austi...

Howard said...

What does it matter, the facts? Punters love to suck the juicy slime out of the bone. Tastes great, less filling. After thirty minutes, they're hungry for more.

John henry said...

Let's bear in mind that in an election that pretty much everyone agrees was free and fair, the Crimeans voted to be part of Russia. I think it was something like 80% for but someone else can look it up.

What happened to "democracy"(tm)?

What happened to the right of peoples to self-determination?

The other provinces would probably vote similarly if given a chance.

Fuck the Russians. But fuck the Ukranians too. Not one more US nickle for either.

Time to shift our focus to the upcoming war with Venezuela and Guyana.

Joe has tried to get us into war with Ukraine, now with Israel. Will Guyana be third times the charm?

John Henry

Big Mike said...

Cheap rhetorical trick used by Ramaswamy. In the 21st century why would anyone memorize something that could be easily looked up on the Web? This is especially true for map data.

Back when I was an adjunct professor teaching advanced IT to business school students I avoided exam questions like “What is the maximum bit rate for Cat 5e twisted pair cables?” Out in the real world, if you ever need to know the maximum bit rate for a Cat 5e cable, you’d just look it up. This made it harder to develop test questions, but the point of a technology class is not to force students to memorize trivia that they’ll forget 15 minutes after the final exam is over, but to determine whether they understand how to use that information to make better business decisions.

But for all of that, the exchange between Ramaswamy and Haley was telling — all she had to do was tell Ramaswamy that she would never send US to fight in Ukraine, and that engaging a nuclear power in warfare is not an advisable activity. Or words to that effect. Yet she didn’t, did she?

Oso Negro said...

"Oblast". The term is oblast. There are no provinces in Ukraine. I doubt they could name three provinces of Canada they would be willing to fight for.

Jupiter said...

"Writes Glenn Kessler ..."

Didn't you mean "Falsely writes Glenn Kessler ..."? And shouldn't he be out on strike? Maybe a baseless strike?

MadisonMan said...

Neither have said they want to send troops
Well, of course they never say they want to send troops. No American wants that. But do I think that it will eventually happen with Biden or Haley? >60% chance.
One thing -- massive -- that I give props to Trump for: no wars started up under his watch. I cannot say the same, at all, from Biden.

rehajm said...

Fact checking is never about facts or checking....

rehajm said...

Personally I'd prefer a President with an ignorance of Ukrainian geography...

Rocco said...

@TuckerCarlson
“The Biden administration is openly threatening Americans over Ukraine. In a classified briefing in the House yesterday, defense secretary Lloyd Austin informed members that if they don’t appropriate more money for Zelensky, “we’ll send your uncles, cousins and sons to fight Russia.” Pay the oligarchs or we’ll kill your kids.”

Maybe we should just send Lloyd Austin to the Ukraine. And he can stop off in Afghanistan and ask for the US equipment back. Give that to the Ukrainians instead.

robother said...

I'm no Dombass! I'm smart! Not like everyone says.

BUMBLE BEE said...

Ahhh! That all-knowing smile. It plays so smooth.
Convinced my dog... well, my neighbor's dog.

Mr Wibble said...

In a meeting in the house yesterday, Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin informed members that if they don't appropriate more money for Volodomyr "I am actually America's highest paid government employee" Zelensky that, "We'll send your uncles, cousins and sons to fight Russia."

It's official. Support Ukraine or we'll kill your kids.


Oh look, an unnamed source "paraphrasing" someone. It's bullshit.

If I had to guess, what he likely said was something along the lines of, "If Ukraine falls, Russia will be emboldened to try taking territory from NATO countries in the region, and we'll end up with American troops drawn into a fight."

Of course, this is a lie, because this country is populated by fat, useless scum and there's no way we'll honor any NATO treaty.

Original Mike said...

"Readers added context they thought people might want to know
Context:

"...Austin warned Congress Tuesday that if lawmakers fail to pass more aid to Ukraine that it "very likely" will lead to U.S. troops on the ground in Europe defending NATO allies in other countries Russia may target next.""


So, he DID say it! Double Yikes!

narciso said...

After 150 billion you should know one should also know of the russo turkish wars that ended in the taking of crimea

Milo Minderbinder said...

“These people” had Lloyd Austin threaten to send sons and daughters to fight in Ukraine….

The Crack Emcee said...

Freeman Hunt said...

"Debates are entertainment pretending to be information."

OUR debates are entertainment pretending to be information. I learn things elsewhere. OUR debates are more like petty cat fights.

rcocean said...

She took almost 5 minutes to come up with 3 names, one of which she got wrong! The names of the provinces: Donetsk, Kherson, Luhansk and Zaporizhzhia have been in the news for 2 years, and she's the "foreign policy expert".

Haley not only sat there with a blank face, she let NJ fats rush in to protect "poor little Haley" with his absurd "How dare you pick on a girl!" nonsense. Well, at least she didn't cry. She's not running for School President, and we don't need a POTUS who needs to be protected.

Haley, DeSantis, and Christie are/were Governors. They don't know anything about Foriegn policy. All of them just parrot the talking points fed to them by the NYT/WaPo or their big donors.

As for the UN Job. Its located in NYC. Haley didn't even leave the USA. She wasn't invited to discussions on the National Security council or the White House, and she quit after 2 years. It used to be more important in the 40s, 50s, and 60s. Today the UN is irrelevant. And the job - as Mr. V said - is a patronage job. A resume enhancer.

If you're going to claim to be a "foreign policy expert" you'd better have some basic knowledge. This was embarrassing.

tommyesq said...

I think there is a deliberate misinterpretation if the question. Vivek was not really testing her to see if she could name three Ukrainian provinces, but to name three that everyday Americans give enough of a crap about to send their son to die over. If she can't name any, she looks dumb. If she does identify three, they will be three that the typical voter knows little to nothing about and will realize that she really is a warmonger for no valid reasons.

rcocean said...

Christie is intolerable, and I'm glad Kelly and Mr. V took him down a peg. NJ fats aka Mr. Insult comic had the gall to attack Mr. V for insulting people.

THis country justs gets more and more crazy and everyone in power seems to think its normal. We have ZERO national interest in who controls the Donbas or the Crimea. Putin is not some evil dictator, and if wanted to conquer Ukraine, he could have done so in the last 15 years. If fact, he could've toppled the Kiev government when he first invaded.

He's stated his objectives to the Russian people over and over again. He wants the Donbas, its full of Russian speakers, and he wants Ukraine to stay out of Nato. Which is in Russia's self-interest.

But we get fools like Christie jabbing about Putin wanting to conquer THE WORLD, and we need to give zelsnky 100,200,300, ?? Billion dollars to stop him. Otherwise, we'll be fighting the Ruskkies in Miami Beach or some nonsense.

Skeptical Voter said...

Phony question. There's not a single province anywhere within Ukraine that I'd send money or troops for. So Ramaswamy just---go---away.

D.D. Driver said...

Really? Biden literally told America we have to pay for Ukraine's war or else he might have to send our kids over on behalf of NATO. So, I guess it's "technically" true that he doesn't want to send our kids and long as we give a blank check, but he is willing to do it if we don't.

Wince said...

Kessler said...
The third province in eastern Ukraine is Kharkiv — which Ukraine liberated in a stunning counteroffensive in 2022.

That was the moment to push a peace deal.

Isn't Ramaswamy arguing that in the grand designs of the "neocons" they didn't want "peace," they wanted to instead push further to a greater victory over Putin that now, over a year later, indeed seems totally out of reach at this point.

Rich said...

Mike (MJB Wolf) wrote: ‘How about they clearly articulate exactly what Ukraine is fighting for and how we'll know when they win or lose?‘

Look, if we just give Putin Sudetenland — er, I mean, Ukraine — it'll all turn out okay.

After all Mearsheimer confirms we have no one but ourselves to blame. It was the Treaty of Versailles' wut done it.

Hope I've anticipated the usual Putin sympathizers sufficiently.

The price of freedom is eternal vigilance.

Big Mike said...

@Oso Negro, the translation of "область" (transliterated as "oblast") is generally translated to mean "province." It may differ in some particulars from what the West means by a province, but an область has firm, well-understood boundaries, like a province, and is an administrative area.

chuck said...

Vivek's superpower is to make Trump sound like an intellectual.

Enigma said...

Crimea...illegal...sigh...

Crimea is central to the history of Russia...a key access port to the ocean...super famous Sieges of Sevastopol...in 1854 and 1941!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege_of_Sevastopol_(1854%E2%80%931855)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege_of_Sevastopol_(1941%E2%80%931942)

Thank the USSR/Stalin for intentionally screwing up Russia's borders and creating the issue. Thank warmongers inside and outside of Russia for 200 years for making the region a perpetual issue. Thank NATO for twisting the tail of a nuclear power in the last 10 years.

Gusty Winds said...

The United States needs to withdraw from NATO. Europe has already dragged the United States into two World Wars. WWI. NOTHING gained. It was fought only to create...WWII.

Let's not get dragged into a third. There should be zero young American men and women sent to die for Article 5. Thank GOD Ukraine is not part of NATO.

But Biden and Austin are CLEARLY letting the US know the possibility of US solders fighting Russian soldiers is very real. They are poking the bear once again.

Since John McCain is dead, give Lindsey Graham a gun an let him be the first to go fight the Russians. Send McCain's daughter. And Liz Cheney...

Michael Fitzgerald said...

We're supposed to be eternally vigilant for our own country. Eternal vigilance doesn't mean Open Your Borders and protect some other country's sovereignty.

Leland said...

I know they have been fact checking rhetoric for some time now, but it really does look silly.

Still, I'm curious, has Kessler ever fact checked Biden's [they'll] "put you all back in chains" rhetoric? Because that has never happened nor has any Republican proposed doing so. Yet that's the level of Ramaswamy's suggestion of "sending children to Ukraine", except the likelihood of the US sending troops to Ukraine (or Russia or middle east because of expansion of the regional conflicts) is higher than the US reverting back to chattel slavery.

More recently, we were told Trump wants to be a dictator. Has Kessler fact checked those claims made by his own employer? I'm guessing he doesn't dare, lest he be one to be laid-off.

gilbar said...

Gusty winds said..
Thank GOD Ukraine is not part of NATO.

YET the Ukraine is not part of NATO.. YET

Drago said...

Mike (MJB Wolf) wrote: ‘How about they clearly articulate exactly what Ukraine is fighting for and how we'll know when they win or lose?‘

LLR-democratical Rich: "Look, if we just give Putin Sudetenland — er, I mean, Ukraine — it'll all turn out okay."

Looks like LLR-democratical Rich is not capable of answering the very straight-forward question. A question that in military affairs, business or any endeavor really ought to be the first question answered.

Show of hands: who is surprised?

Come on Rich! Show us what you've got! (Spoiler: not a thing)

At least go and copy and paste something from whatever ignorant leftist site you and LLR-democratical C**** most adore...(trick request! You adore them all!)

But lets do a level-setting as our British friends say: in this case, Putin ALREADY has the "Sudentenland" equivalent.

So, what is the goal/measures of actual progress/definition of success, what are the clear direct costs to achieve the goal, what are the key cost trade-offs, what are the major operational (tactical and strategic) escalation & "known unknown" risks and what are the likely key global geo-political ramifications?....

.......Lol

We all know you are an empty LLR suit sent to gaslight and lie. Real stuff is far beyond your capabilities.

Thanks for playing little dude.

narciso said...

yes putin's idealogical renewal regime, like greece under the colonels or argentina, yes I didn't get to the Crimean war, which was another close run things,

narciso said...

yes putin's idealogical renewal regime, like greece under the colonels or argentina, yes I didn't get to the Crimean war, which was another close run things,

Michael K said...

Since John McCain is dead, give Lindsey Graham a gun an let him be the first to go fight the Russians. Send McCain's daughter. And Liz Cheney...

Great idea. I might even chip in for a bit of airfare.

The Vault Dweller said...

I honestly don't really care if Haley can name the three provinces or not. It sounds like she is fairly aware of the situation if the only discrepancy is between listing Crimea instead of Kharkiv. (Though yes, there is a big strategic difference between the two.) People will just use that exchange to read whatever they prefer into any of the involved candidates. It reminds me of the 08 Democrat primary when during a debate the host asked Hillary Clinton if she could name the new incoming president of Russia after Putin was going to step down. She fumbled something that sounded a bit like Dimitry Medvedev, but was clearly off in the pronunciation, and the host corrected her. Then the host immediately after asked the same question to Barack Obama, who was able to give the correct answer, correctly pronounced, perhaps because he just heard it. But some people took that event to cast doubt on Hillary's competence and another reason to support Obama, which I'm presuming is just want those people emotionally wanted to do anyway.

Candide said...

Kathryn51 said...

"Was surprised to come to Althouse and the consensus was Haley was "toast".

She stood there for the first 15 minutes of the debate, being poked, smeared ("corrupt") and lied about and with a patient, little smile on her face.

All of the women watching knew what that smile communicated - especially all the white suburban women who would vote for her in an instant over any Dem (including Newsome)."

Shrewd observation and points toward a possible road to victory for Haley.

Joe Smith said...

'And if Haley, who Hillary-esquely markets herself as a geo-political whiz kid with the Kissinger-esque experience and insight, couldn't respond immediately then she either froze (doubtful) or had a staffer zing her with a text cluing her in...hence the later answer.'

Yes. Too bad our president can't name what he had for breakfast.

'Vivek's superpower is to make Trump sound like an intellectual.'

And yet he is the smartest person running in either party.

You might not agree with his positions, but if you think he isn't smart you would be mistaken...

Cheryl said...

When Lloyd Austin stands there and threatens to send MY SON to war in Ukraine (which he did) if we don't fund the Ukraine war, they most certainly do want to be at war there. He basically said give me the money or some of your kids are going to get it.

I am so done with all of them.

n.n said...

Russia was legally present in force in Crimea before 2014. After the coup, the regime in Kiev cut off resources and services to Crimea, hoping to either deprive the forces or starve the residents so they would turn against the Russians. This is when Russia "annexed" Crimea, with essential services, and the earned goodwill of Ukrainians in Crimea. Something similar happened in eastern Ukraine. Another ethnic Spring in the Obama/ Biden/ Clinton world pieces... "peace" series.

RideSpaceMountain said...

"Of course, this is a lie, because this country is populated by fat, useless scum"

I'm sure you'd know Mr. Wibble. No need to quibble with your drivel.

Oso Negro said...

@ Big Mike “encheelada”

tim in vermont said...

Remember when the Ukraine ( there is an implied ‘the’ in Ukrainian, like the Netherlands) annexed the independent Republic of Crimea in 1995, but the US saw this as geopolitically advantageous and Crimea had a much smaller army than Ukraine, and Russia was on its knees at the time, so the wishes of the Crimeans were never considered. Still, Crimea had voted for independence in 1992, a vote that Ukraine considers so irrelevant that they pretend that it never took place. This is the “rules based order.”

Would the world be better off with a non-aligned buffer state between Russia and NATO? To ask it is to answer it. We could have had it, Ukraine had initialed the agreement, but Joe Biden said no. Oh yeah, and the Right Sector, our boys in Kiev, assassinated one of the Ukrainian negotiators, that’s how democracy works in Kiev.

Drago said...

Candide: "Shrewd observation and points toward a possible road to victory for Haley."

Tell me you have little understanding of the relevant republican primary voter demographic subgroups in 2023 without telling me you have little understanding of the relevant republican primary voter demographic subgroups in 2023.

tim in vermont said...

When Hitler went on his tear, he had millions of soldiers and a military that could overrun major European powers in short order. Putin has no such army and “the domino theory” is a hoary old propaganda trope that no adult should fall for in this day and age. The worst part is when Austin used propaganda instead of reason and logic on the Congressional leadership. It shows that they still refuse, even at this desperate hour, to share their real reasoning, probably because they know any normal person would recoil in horror, but it boils down to this, we wanted this war and did everything we could to provoke it, and we have pushed so many chips, denominated in units of America’s prestige, that we don’t think that we can afford to lose.

Europe is shitting pickles at the realization that they have lost their access to cheap Russian energy and they think that they are totally screwed unless they can replace Putin with another puppet like Yeltsin who will sell Russia to us on the cheap.

“Never underestimate Joe Biden’s ability to f*k things up.” - Barrack Obama

Joe Biden Is Corrupt said...

Rich Ukrainian insiders (think Biden family types x 100) are taking OUR tax dollars and buying up real estate in Europe.
We have already funded billions.


tim in vermont said...

Our agreement to defend Ukraine was written in the same disappearing ink as our agreement not to expand NATO eastward.

Drago said...

Mr Wibble: "Of course, this is a lie, because this country is populated by fat, useless scum and there's no way we'll honor any NATO treaty."

Morgan Freeman Narrator Voice: "Of course, in discussing NATO Treaty obligations for members, Mr Wibble neglected to tell us how many NATO nations routinely, for years, failed to meet their minimum obligations in terms of funding and military size and readiness

Only 7 of NATO’s 30 member states met its 2 percent GDP defense spending target in 2022, figures from the alliance’s newly published annual report show, while Russia’s invasion of Ukraine highlighted for many the criticality of future defense spending in Europe."

Yep. That russki invasion of Ukraine really got the attention of our NATO "allies"...all of whom use our cash and revenue generated from our military installations as cash cows for their welfare programs.

Mutaman said...

wendybar said...

"How false is it really??


Tucker Carlson
@TuckerCarlson
The Biden administration is openly threatening Americans over Ukraine. In a classified briefing in the House yesterday, defense secretary Lloyd Austin informed members that if they don’t appropriate more money for Zelensky, “we’ll send your uncles, cousins and sons to fight Russia.” Pay the oligarchs or we’ll kill your kids."

Typical Althouse bs.


Jennifer Griffin
@JenGriffinFNC
"This characterization of Austin’s remarks is 100 percent not true, acc to two sources who were in the briefings. Austin warned that it is not hyperbole to say Putin won’t stop at Ukraine. If he enters NATO territory US troops could be called to fight; cheaper to fund Ukraine now."


Free advice: stick to Hunter Biden dick pictures

Original Mike said...

"This characterization of Austin’s remarks is 100 percent not true, acc to two sources who were in the briefings. Austin warned that it is not hyperbole to say Putin won’t stop at Ukraine. If he enters NATO territory US troops could be called to fight; cheaper to fund Ukraine now."

Nice business ya got here. Be a shame if anything happened to it.

Drago said...

tim in vermont: "When Hitler went on his tear, he had millions of soldiers and a military that could overrun major European powers in short order. Putin has no such army and “the domino theory” is a hoary old propaganda trope that no adult should fall for in this day and age."

All true. The russkis have zero ability to project force at sufficient distance to pose any significant threat whatsoever, particularly to NATO nations (and by NATO I mean basically the US and Poland).

The russki GDP is 3/4ths that of....Italy!!

The russki performance in Syria demonstrates that clearly.

Poland alone could bloody the russki (and Belorusski if necessary) noses pretty effectively all by themselves before any additional support via NATO.

Uktaine is next door, contiguous, with russki ethnics in russki ethnic majority areas. Those conditions are the necessary for any Putin aggressive considerations.

One caveat to that I would throw in is if the russkis could generate enough successful offensive push thru Kherson to Odessa, where only 30% of the population is russki ethnics, I do think Putin would seriously consider a continued push to link with the Transnistria region in Moldova.

Rocco said...

Betcha those countries whose leaders sniggered at Trump when he chastized them for not meeting their military spending obligations for decades are regretting it now.

Who am I kidding. They know that the Biden administration will spend billions so they don't have to.

wendybar said...

"US troops could be called " = sending our kids to war. You can interrupt it anyway you want, but, they will be sending our kids to fight Joe Bidens war.

Tina Trent said...

This is going to be a racist comment, but not so much contextualized: Ramaswamy won the spelling bee. I call it a spelling bee for ethnic purposes that signal that I still don't really trust what he says. So be it.

Here's the deeper truth here: Indian-Americans don't fight our wars. Poor whites, poor blacks, poor Hispanics, and a portion of the middle classes from these groups do. And they're damned tired of doing it.

Ramaswamy is speaking for them, regardless of Party. So did Trump. Nikki Haley and the GOPe and DNC aren't speaking for them.

Time to re-watch Homeland.

Mutaman said...


wendybar said...

"US troops could be called " = sending our kids to war. You can interrupt it anyway you want,'

Here is how it works in the big people's world, Wendy: When you put something in quotes that means it's exactly what the person said. Has nothing to do with "interpretation".