So did they "quickly realize[] something was wrong" or did they keep "trust[ing] that the large number of cars... meant they were still on the right track"? The article doesn't bother to make sense, even as it shows a vivid example of humans proceeding blindly into the unknown.
@justdoingshelbythings Still stuck in vegas send help 😭 #vegas #stuckinthedesert #f1 #freewayclosed #offroading #trafficjam #lost #sos #wherearewe #desert #donkeys ♬ origineel geluid - Tik Toker
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Rule #1 in life: Never follow the mob.
Now do masks and lockdowns.
Humans take a knee to AI. Siri, stop spying on me.
The largest desert gathering of stupid since burning man…
So the map was - dare I say it - not authentic?
...the large number of cars... meant they were still on the right track"
Did the White House seize, or did the pounce?
I'm a visual person. I always look at a map ahead of time, understand the layout, and drive. I can't stand google telling me where to go.
However, if you're not a visual person and you like google's directions... how in the world do you drive on a washboard in the desert and not realize you've been misled? That's the most lemming response I've ever seen. We're doomed.
I kind of hate to say it but there is a certain, albeit dark, humor in this. And not a little bit of social commentary. Reminds me a bit of that people with their faces stuck in iPhones walking into open manholes thing.
Andrea... android: it was a funny. Why are humans so culturally strict?
The starting premise is these drivers thought a “dust storm” would only affect I-15 and not the region? I bet they all believe in AGW climate change too. These people wouldn’t make it driving in Louisiana.
Just looked at Google Maps, and if I-15 from Vegas to LA won’t work for you, then I think US95 to I-40 would be the next option. But I use Google Maps like a map and often don’t trust it or other automated route guidance. Then again, I learned route planning with Rand McNally.
That was a new thing 20 years ago as Garmin car GPS units hit the market -- with people making sudden and silly turns all the time.
What bothers me more than crazy errors are urban interchange errors. Sometimes the instructions are wrong or too late, and missing a turn results in 30 minutes to 2 hours of delay. This happens with an elevated freeway nearby -- people are supposed to turn slightly right to go up above, but stay in the middle and go down below. They then drive a few blocks and have to do a U-turn in a parking lot. Still, 30 minutes of delay.
Some jokers put locations in the wrong place too, sending people to the suburbs when they want to visit a tourist attraction.
Google Maps can be great if you're on the Interstate and a crash is ahead. You can easily drive around it. But you need to know what's actually there before you follow the advice. Always carry a Rand McNally Road Atlas in your car!
But Google does this all the time. I don't have a perfect sense of direction, but my compass sense is pretty good. Very often, I'll veto the Google routing suggestions to my wife's disagreement, only to find out that I'm usually right. Never depend on Google.
I think the principle problem is that Google's default routing is all based on travel time, rather than miles, and traffic is always in a state of flux. Sometimes it will direct the user on some really bizarre, circuitous routes because of temporary traffic conditions. And then, once mis-directed, you're stuck with it. Google's constant re-calculation of travel times will always keep you stuck on that unfortunate choice because it is now quicker to stay with it.
Why wasn't there an obvious point, as the road quality diminished before they got on the cow path, that they thought to themselves, "No way is a dusty freeway going to be worse than this," and turned around?
I guess this is real, but why would anyone follow an unpaved road to get out of Las Vegas? That's just crazy. LV is in the middle of desert. There are only a few highways that connect it to the Outside world.
Why would they think there's a "Shortcut through the Desert". Go look at the tik tok, where were they going? Did they look up? The horizon doesnt show any cities or highways ahead.
I have generally had good results with my GPS, which is not Google Maps, but it sometimes comes up with bizarre routes. If there is a spur that in theory will save you 30 seconds by exiting off the highway and then re-entering the highway assuming everything goes perfectly, then it will recommend it. These almost never go well, almost always making the trip longer as you either get stuck at a long light or have to now merge onto a busy road from a stop sign. I had one situation with a highway going up a mountain that did a wide cutback, and the GPS decided rather than follow the highway that I should cut through some side streets, only to find the side streets were barely one lane paved roads to service a few houses that had been built in the empty land. It was very difficult to navigate as the turns were very tight and missing would bottom out, and it took a lot longer and a lot more stress than following the highway. I've also had it insist that the fastest way to anywhere is through Atlanta during rush hour, which is a curious choice.
What I find odd here is usually the GPS have an option to ignore dirt roads, and the GPS will only provide dirt roads if it is literally impossible to reach the destination otherwise. Did Google Maps think this was a paved road, or did the herd all have dirt roads turned on? My GPS has that turned off automatically.
'...even as it shows a vivid example of humans proceeding blindly into the unknown.'
Which is often a defining trait of our species.
See 'exploration.'
I have experienced similar misdirection at the hands of my navigating spouse, using a perfectly ordinary road map, trying to save some time on a long drive. Finding a bush to pee behind, as the sun sets through the pouring rainclouds, in the middle of nowhere hours from our destination, preferably with bison or free range cattle around every bend in a gravel road, has become a standard of excellence by which we judge vacation trips.
Kate said...
I'm a visual person. I always look at a map ahead of time, understand the layout, and drive. I can't stand google telling me where to go..
I do this, too. But most people wouldn't have signed up if they knew life involved having to think.
However, if you're not a visual person and you like google's directions... how in the world do you drive on a washboard in the desert and not realize you've been misled? That's the most lemming response I've ever seen. We're doomed.
Darwin in action. Just look at it as improving the gene pool!
What's the difference between a "gravel road" and a gravelly road?
Maybe the latter is the transition from "gravel road... into a bumpy dirt trail"?
My son works in geospatial services for an engineering company (i.e. map maker) and whenever google maps is mentioned he just laughs. Apparently google maps don't work for making bridges and roads and such.
"Well, my head’s full of questions
My temp’rature’s risin’ fast
Well, I’m lookin’ for some answers
But I don’t know who to ask"
I'm an old Air Force C-130 Navigator with my last tactical flight in the late 80's. We manually calculated our airdrops on paper and used paper charts for all of our navigation. If we were going to a 'developed' drop zone we might have a grainy black and white picture to reference or use to plot our drop, otherwise it was off of a chart. We were busy when flying tactical - map reading, clearing for traffic and threats, altitude and time control, the Nav. calling 'Green Light," etc. Typically, it was elbows and assholes in the cockpit. Fast forward to the 2010s, and I am a Test Manager for the C-17. Tactical formation flying testing an audited formation keeping system. The first indication that times had changes was when the crew that was tasked with 'hand flying' the aircraft bitched and moaned about it. (There was no autopilot in tactical flying back in the day.) When flying the mission, the two pilots just sat in their seats like lumps on a log, occasionally flipping a switch. It was all automated, including all of the navigator duties. Things were great until something goes wrong, and in life, something always goes wrong. There was a marked difference in the old head crews that come out of tactile airlift - ie, old school C-130 experience, and the new kids who grew up exclusively on video games. The new kids trusted the systems, and would happily, and ignorantly fly into a mountain if the system told them to. Scary.
Ice Nine nails it- people looking at a phone dropping into the open manhole. They should be thankful there wasn't a cliff somewhere along that "road".
Reminds me a bit of that people with their faces stuck in iPhones walking into open manholes thing.
I’d say more like the people who maneuvered past “bridge is out” signs rather than disobey their Navigation system — and went into the river. Or turned the wrong way down a one-way street back when Garmin was new.
Reminds me a bit of that people with their faces stuck in iPhones walking into open manholes thing.
I’d say more like the people who maneuvered past “bridge is out” signs rather than disobey their Navigation system — and went into the river. Or turned the wrong way down a one-way street back when Garmin was new.
Google Maps is a tool. You have to know how to use your tools.
When we were driving the Australian Outback last year, I hauled out a map to ask a local a route question. "Map guy, huh?". Instant camaraderie.
You might be a redneck if …. the directions to your house include “Turn off the dirt road.”
Courtesy of Jeff Foxworthy
Got a Thomas Bros in the truck.
There's the old meme about "Men will never stop and ask for directions".
And then in my family my wife and I have different views on routes and navigation systems.
My wife faithfully follows the directions of the little lady under the dashboard---one bread crumb and one turn at a time.
I want to look at the whole route--and often times I'll think or say "the heck with that" or words less polite. Because sometimes the little lady under the dash is just plain Goofy. As in leading the poor souls in the post way out into the desert.
There is also the proverbial following the GPS off the pier and then splash. Was that an AI laugh I heard?
"Even as the route got bumpier as it proceeded off-road... they trusted that the large number of cars accompanying them meant they were still on the right track, Easler said. 'Nobody was turning around. So we figured that it led somewhere,' Easler said...."
Sure did,
to a world led by Democrats.
Lemmings.
We were headed home from Richmond VA to Fairfax County in northern VA one time when some guy started shooting people on I-95 midway along the route. They closed the interstate, which caused the parallel US Route 1 to lock up with traffic. We told Google Maps to find the fastest way home, and it did great.
A line of us zigged and zagged along industrial roads, country lanes and suburban streets. We crossed over the gridlock on Route 1 a couple of times, wondering what those people were thinking, but glad they were staying out of our way. At one point it told me to turn onto "Mine Road," and I was afraid it was going to take us into a mineshaft, but it was fine. There was a convenience store in the middle of nowhere that was having its busiest day ever due to the Google Maps caravan; the workers seemed dazed.
@Madison Man: Always carry a Rand McNally Road Atlas in your car!
A few months ago I was driving from Boise to Sand Point, ID. Since I was in no real rush, I decided to take a scenic route: Oxbow, OR, Joseph OR, Lewiston, etc.
The problem I faced was that GPS apps will not plot routes such as this. US95N, fine. I84, even though its 85 miles longer, fine. The in-car nav won't, either. It's a real mystery why non of them allow "vias", an aviation term for points off an airway.
Google Maps will allow en route points to shape the route, but it will, without fail, and exactly all the time, dump its brains when turning off the ignition (Apple Car Play).
In situations like this, I enter the next town, leapfrogging my way to the destination. Works great, except when it doesn't work at all.
Oxford, OR is in the Devils Canyon, about 30 miles from a cell signal. The car's nav kept wanting to take me west of Portland when entering St. Joseph. (NB: Apple Maps, which the app Road Trip Planner uses, had misnamed Joseph, OR. Do not get me started on Apple Maps.) The iDrive screen absolutely prohibits using it as a map. To see the required detail is like looking through a soda straw. Expanding range loses all the required detail.
In that part of the US, winging it is dumb. So, hanging my head in shame, I back tracked 40 miles to take to US95N.
Now, my car has a Rand McNally Road Atlas.
When we were driving the west coast of New Zealand, after dark and in the rain, the GPS lady kept telling me to "turn left". There was no road to the left. There was a several hundred foot cliff with the Tasman Sea at the bottom. I didn't used to believe the stories of the GPS telling people to drive off a cliff. I do now.
it's Amazing the number of people that put 100% trust in WHATEVER google tells them.
(note: if there's a way to tell google to avoid non-paved roads, please show me)
My brother inlaw is CONVINCED that google AWAYS tells you The Fastest Way..
Which he KNOWS is the fastest way, because google told him.
Here in iowa, there are plenty of places (US-18 near Postville, for instance) where google will put you on 2 miles of gravel to save 1.5 miles and 2 minutes. This ASSUMES you're going to be going 55mph on the gravel (and 25mph in town)..
AND that you'll NOT EVEN SLOW DOWN for the 2 stop signs on the gravel.
My nephew not only doesn't know which way is west.. He was Surprised when i pointed out that us-20 has signs saying that you're going west (ON us-20).
The ENTIRE POINT of google maps, is to make you OBEY google maps; it tries HARD to not be useful as a map (example: it calls county hiway W-64 "Grunder Rd" so that watching for the sign is useless -- just wait until it says: "turn left"
By making you OBEY, and being CLUELESS about Where you are, you won't notice that google maps is routing you past google advertisers
I have an otherwise very smart friend who did that same thing here in AZ, they were stuck out in the desert for hours with a bunch of other vehicles because whatever navigation app told them to.
I didn't pay that close of attention but most of those vehicles were probably some sort of crossover SUV.
(extended inhale) "Garnered". How dast thee. Well done. :)
Enigma:
What bothers me more than crazy errors are urban interchange errors. Sometimes the instructions are wrong or too late, and missing a turn results in 30 minutes to 2 hours of delay. This happens with an elevated freeway nearby --
Oh holy shit. That reminds me of Springfield, Mo and the I60/I65 interchange at its SE corner. Pop an interactive map and zoom way down. That complex? It's almost all 100 and + above the ground. It's not only confusing, it's a little terrifying. I can't imagine trusting Google to direct me through it but I'll bet people do it concentrating on their phone map.
I go north and come into Springfield from center east. All on the ground.
Always look at the whole route. The big picture. I try to get my wife to do this, but she just blindly follows the phone. This has led us into some interesting situations. If I am driving, she just can't fathom the process of zooming out, and planning an alt route around a jam, or to a secondary destination. She has to let the phone do it.
Some people have never developed comfort with planning on a map.
"Turn left when you get to the bridge that used to be painted white, then proceed just past the spot where Mrs O'Shanahan's goat died, you will see a turn, just across from Fred McElway's old barn, turn there and proceed fifteen miles, and don't worry about the signs, they are all wrong on purpose to keep out strangers."
Big Mike said...
You might be a redneck if …. the directions to your house include “Turn off the dirt road.”
It's more, "Go to the 3rd blacktop" which you discover is the 10th road off the "highway".
When the magic boxes hit the marine market, there were several incidences of boats setting the destination in the harbor but not realizing the direct path was through the jetty instead of around to the entrance.
It's not "GPS" it's the crappy navigation/mapping programs.
As I used to tell the young officers, you can have your raster-scan radar plotting contacts, your magic box GPS unit showing you right on the trackline, but you must plot your positions on a real chart and always, always look out the big panoramic "video" screen we old timers called windows and trust that over the boxes. Plus question everything till verified.
"I'm a visual person. I always look at a map ahead of time, understand the layout, and drive. I can't stand google telling me where to go."
Me too, Kate. I have to know the route and alternatives in case something goes wrong. It drives my family nuts.
"Do you know where you're going?"
Me," Yes."
"how do you know we're not lost?"
Me," I looked at the map."
"That was back at the house! You memorized the route?"
Me,"Yes"
I never trust a GPS system.
Reliance on the smartphone Google map navigation tool dulls the model and. This is because your mind is actually a memory Palace where all of your memories are tied to the geographic location that you were at when you had that particular experience.
Human security and confidence based on over a million years of evolution relies on the foundation that you always know where you are where you've been and where you are going. Therefore getting lost is one of the most distressing and stressful things that people can experience. The over-reliance on the smartphone is another additional optional cause of modern psychosis depression and anxiety.
Why on Earth you use Google Maps to drive from Las Vegas to Los Angeles? The 15 freeway runs straight from Las Vegas to Southern California. Then you can transition to the 215, 60 or 91 freeways. (Depending on where you want to go in Los Angeles.) It's literally jumping on the freeway in Vegas, transitioning to another freeway in southern California and then getting off that freeway. Three steps.
People tease me for it, but I always check maps before I go on any long trip. Especially my Thomas Guides. They come in big rectangular binders and give you a great idea of where you need to go.
If Google suddenly told me to get off of the freeway before I hit So Cal, I'd know that it was wrong. (Unless I specifically told it that I wanted to stop and get some Alien Fresh Jerky in Baker CA.)
The Democrats in California are a lot like the creator of that video. You end up with Gavin Newsom and Adam Schiff and Kamala Harris. Empty, bumpy roads to nowhere.
That's the thing... driving on a dirt road in the dessert and the next thing you know you're in traffic waiting to go through the Squirrel Hill tunnel in Pittsburgh.
There's the old meme about "Men will never stop and ask for directions".
Supposedly, Pat Sajak had this to say about asking for directions...
"In the matter of asking for directions, women assume we men are too proud to ask, when, in fact, we are wise enough to realize that people will give directions even if they have absolutely no idea what they’re talking about. Rather than admit ignorance, most folks are content to improvise directions with an air of absolute certainty. Their assuredness is so convincing that, when you finally realize you’re even more lost than when you asked for help, you figure you must have heard them wrong. And, assuming you’re with a woman (which, of course, you would be if you’d asked directions in the first place) you’ll stop the next person you see for further misinformation. Men would rather take their chances with maps, signs, stars or even instinct than to trust the kid wiping strawberry goo off the Slurpee machine to tell them where Milly’s Antique Emporium is located."
Even as the route got bumpier as it proceeded off-road... they trusted that the large number of cars accompanying them meant they were still on the right track, Easler said.
They had already driven from Los Angeles to Las Vegas? Surely, they noticed all that desert they had to cross to get there- how many alternate routes would one imagine there might be? Anyway, one would think a re-route would be on the most sensible alternative available. And if that turns out to be a washboarded dirt road, well...
What a bunch of maroons.
I too like a map. GPS is most useful for finding addresses in towns or congested areas. I don't like using the GPS exclusively because focusing on that small screen is like trying to see a museum through a keyhole.
I've heard this story ...
Driven by the Spirit into the desert, Jesus remains there for forty days without eating; he lives among wild beasts, and angels minister to him.
The Temptation of Christ.
I did have an experience with Google Maps in which it gave me the fastest direction to a location since the traffic was light. It was correct about the lack of traffic. The problem is it was after a snowstorm and it was sending me down streets that had not been plowed, which given the amount of snow made it very difficult to make progress.
Sometimes the fastest route between two points is the way you know. And always know a route that is likely to be prioritized by the snow plows and salt trucks. That may take longer to get home, but it is far less likely to result in an accident or getting stuck.
"Sometimes the fastest route between two points is the way you know."
When I lived in SoCal, I drove from eastern LA county to Long Beach for work, about 50 miles. The radio stations were pretty good about reporting accidents and I learned from trying to avoid those backups that the only way an alternate route might be faster is if I was already familiar with it. Getting off the freeway at an unfamiliar exit just about guaranteed a longer drive than had I just waited in traffic on the freeway.
Something I discovered while trying to find out why Apple Maps wouldn't route me via a known good road. Maps won't provide routing through road closures. Fair enough, one might think. But it doesn't show closures, won't allow the user to disregard the advice, calls a lane closure a road closure, and is almost always wrong. This matters in the West, since the alternative route could be easily be 80 miles longer.
In trying to discover ground truth, I found 511.[state name].gov. Example. It will bring up an extremely useful display of road conditions within the state, with selectable layers, as well as alerts and streaming camera locations. [state name] serves to localize the display. After that, it can pan anywhere. If you do a bit of setup, it will also send changes in road conditions for a specified route.
I have a tough time grokking that anything involving .gov can be this well designed, but there you go.
Our neighbor two plots over has a relatively large parcel for being in the city. A couple acres.
A paved road dead ends into the south side of the property. They have a driveway entrance on the north side (where we live). Every map (google, bing, et al) has that driveway connected to the dead end road on the other side.
They've had to put up large, professionally made signs at both entrances declaring the maps are wrong. It's not as bad now as it was in the summer, but it's still a nightmare for them as they're not sure how to go about how to correct it.
Me personally? I always look at a map ahead of time, understand the layout, and drive. I can't stand google telling me where to go.
My wife is the opposite and she's always getting lost.
'Why on Earth you use Google Maps to drive from Las Vegas to Los Angeles?'
I know my way around my part of the state pretty well, but I still use Waze to alert me of cops...
Kind of amusing how Mika's dad wrote the book that laid out why the US had to wrest control of Ukraine from Russia. You can read it and see why Putin took Biden's moves to add Ukraine to NATO as an existential threat, and why he had to fight a war over it, just as he said he would, and every other Russian leader said they would. The fact that bringing Ukraine into NATO was a guaranteed trigger for Russia to "start" a war was one of the things that excited the neocons the most. They get to provoke a war, but don't have to wear the odium of having fired the first shot in the eyes of the rubes who never read any history.
https://www.amazon.com/Grand-Chessboard-American-Geostrategic-Imperatives/dp/046509435X
Now his daughter works at MSNBC, and most of the cable news networks have "former" spies as color commentators on international affairs.
Don't worry though, they would never lie to you. You can trust them!
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