The spokeswoman said, as the NYT paraphrases it, "he was referring to an event in September in which Mr. Zelensky visited Canada’s Parliament and joined a standing ovation honoring a 98-year-old Ukrainian Canadian war veteran."
But "the veteran, Yaroslav Hunka, had served in a division that was under Nazi control during World War II."
I'd like to see the full transcript of the debate. I've looked for one and think it ought to be available within a few hours of the event. I'd like to check the context of quotes like this, which make Ramaswamy sound either inept or invidious.
.@VivekGRamaswamy drops Ukraine red-pills pic.twitter.com/2zPA0F1vGi
— Benny Johnson (@bennyjohnson) November 9, 2023
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41 comments:
Stick a fork in Vivek, he's done. The comment about Haley's kid was weird and a total jerk move.
Make your point without bringing someone's kid into it.
Vivek was great. He won the debate!
The spokeswoman doesn't sound very bright either.
"kind-of oscillated his words" ... what?
I am tired of this stupid meme. The audience did not know the guy had been a Nazi. They were told he was a hero. Of course they applauded.
Ramaswamy said a few things that needed to be said. Let’s cut the bullshit platitudes and puffery.
Thank goodness chimed in — I was worried that you wouldn’t cement Ramaswamy’s debate with a post.
Before anyone accuses him of being a Russian puppet, just remember that stupidity and pandering to right-wing talk radio is also a good explanation. So on brand.
Sooner or later everyone is a Nazi.
A thousand years from now someone will call someone else a Nazi. And it will be like the word "Neanderthal" now, everyone knows what it's supposed to mean when someone is called that even though Neanderthals disappeared 40,000 years ago.
I do wonder what someone under the age of 40 now thinks it means to call someone else a Nazi. Supposedly 2/3 of Americans under that age are unaware of the Holocaust or otherwise confused or mistaken about it. (This is according to something I read at Powerline).
This is the same Zelensky that just canceled national elections. He is indeed no paragon of Democracy. But why is the NYT so sensitive about calling people Nazis? Note how they try to suggest a guy that served with the Nazis isn't a Nazi.
"Oscillated in his words". Did he go all call-center ethnic?
"Dick Cheney in 3 inch heels"
Damn. I didn't figure ramaswamy for a Chad. Superb neg. Excellent delivery. Who knows, she might've even liked it.
Regardless, she's out.
WHY are the warmongers running the GOP?
WHY are the warmongers running the USA?
WHY are we at war with russia (and china (and syria)) ?
WHY are we at war with the world?
It's closer to invidious than inept. It's designed to get people to defend Zelensky as not a Nazi... which will make people associate Zelensky with Nazis.
Vivek won the night with actual conservatives in the first minute when he called out Ronna Romney McDaniel to come up on stage and resign, then tore into the GOP having their debate hosted by NBC and their mouthpieces.
He didn't win the debate, but he had the guts to say things that needed to be said.
I heard it live, in the short portion I sat for, and immediately understood exactly what he was saying. But then I’ve been paying close attention to Zelenskyy and had a similar opinion of him before Vivek’s remarks. Once I realized that first hour was less than a third of the scheduled time I bailed. It was better than the first two because NBC or the RNC changed the rules and Lester Holt kept control as did Hugh Hewitt.
But ugh three and a half hours? Ridiculous.
Some people thought Vivek called Zelensky a Nazi...is this the worst thing they could come up with to say about Vivek's debate performance?
The NYT labels people Nazis who aren't Nazis all the time.
The good news is, they didn't call Vivek a Nazi. The bad news is, that means he's not polling very well.
Dave Begley said...
Vivek was great. He won the debate!
11/9/23, 5:31 AM
I agree. He was on fire with THIS conversation.
https://twitter.com/i/status/1722450092211241139
Now, why on Earth would one need to check the context of a quote from the NYT?
I notice they didn't pounce with their stock phrase, "claimed, without evidence, that they celebrated a Nazi in their ranks...." So that means Vivek is not necessarily in bad odor - yet.
I wanted to re-post to what Crack linked to in an earlier thread.
Vivek asks the question. NBC - Hacks and liars.
Isn't it funny how these screaming liars just dropped all the Russian Collusion BS, too. They move from lie to lie. their lifeboat is abortion.
Sally327 said
I do wonder what someone under the age of 40 now thinks it means to call someone else a Nazi.
i'm Pretty sure, that they mean it as a compliment; just ask the AntiFa*
Supposedly 2/3 of Americans under that age are unaware of the Holocaust
and the Other 1/3 think that it didn't go far enough
AntiFa* Just think of Antipasto: that which goes BEFORE the pasta. AntiFa: the fascist hors d'oeuvre
If Trump cannot run, Vivek is the next best choice to lose to Biden.
Vivek has just not lived up to expectations. He's no good at retail politics. And he lacks the decades of experience Trump gained in the hardscrabble world of property development. He talks good words. Not a compliment.
I tend to distrust people who show up expecting their slick bon-mots to play in Peoria. He's becoming the Pete Buttigeig of the GOP candidates.
Haley and DeSantis need to have that serious talk. I won't abandon Trump, but objectively, he abandoned his promises to us, even if he is being persecuted -- but he also made very stupid choices for advisors. Vote for him again? Hell yeah. Hope for an alternative? Hell yeah.
It was a turning point for one Vivek line alone (to the moderator):
"And we've got the Democrats and we've got Kristen Welker here. Do you think the Democrats would actually hire Greg Gutfeld to host a democratic debate? They wouldn't do it. Kristen – I'm going to use this time because this is about you in the media and the corrupt media establishment, ask you – the Trump-Russia collusion hoax that you pushed on this network for years, was that real or Hillary Clinton made-up disinformation? Answer the question. Go."
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/republican-debate-vivek-ramaswamy-demands-hosts-be-replaced-by-joe-rogan-and-elon-musk/ar-AA1jCRjD
Will he win? Likely no. But, creating a biased echo chamber for a "debate" with unchallenged biased moderators and moderators telling candidates to "Shut up" may be over. I hope.
As Mozart said to Salieri, "When one hears such bullshit, what can one say but…Ramaswamy?"
Althouse, if you think you still need to "check the context" of a quote used to disparage a Republican presidential candidate in the media, I have a bridge in New York City for sale you can have at a great low price.
Why do we call them "NAZIs" anyway? It is a made up term, sort of an acronym, never used used by the Germans in the 20-40s. It was made up by the Brits, Churchill had a lot to do with promulgating it. It was/is a convenient way to avoid calling them "National Socialists" which is what they were. And what they called themselves.
Officially "National Socialist German Workers' Party" in translation
In German "Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterpartei" or NSDAP
Not "fascist" of "Fascist", either. That would have been the Italian political party/ideology. Some shared beliefs but generally very different.
Anything to avoid giving socialism a bad name. Right?
How about just calling Zelensky and his govt and supporters "Corrupt shitheels" and let it go at that? Certainly more accurate.
John Henry
i'm Pretty sure, that they mean it as a compliment; just ask the AntiFa*
Shouldn't that be spelled "ante-fa"? Or perhaps just "Fa"
John Henry
Ramaswamy tossed out the “Biden isn’t actually running, it’s Newsom or Michelle Obama” conspiracy in his closing statement. Vivek wants to build a wall on the Canadian border too? Gotta keep out those pesky snow Mexicans, huh?
Absolutely crazy, these candidates are still talking about a nationwide abortion ban or abortion restrictions after they got absolutely washed on Tuesday. Tim Scott brought up a 15-week abortion ban. A similar ban was just overwhelmingly rejected in Ohio.
Absolute clown show.
There are only two Republican candidates with the organizational sophistication and media smarts to do the job without setting the world on fire -- Haley and DeSantis.
If Haley gets it, she will move centrist and keep the beltway fat, stupid, and on its path to collapse.
DeSantis is our best chance.
But let's talk about shoes.
If the Canuck populace outed themselves as a bunch of ignoramuses clapping on command, that's on them, and should be a warning to the rest of us.
Vivek has the politician's gift to be unfair and not care.
Highly amusing!
How precious is the NYT for being so Nazi-sensitive! You know if a random guy at a Trump rally had a swastika on anything at all then every Trump voter would be labeled Nazis. Hell we already are in Hillary!’s stated opinion. But Zelenskyy having a combat unit fielded with Nazi emblems, the same unit that Canuck nazi served in, gets waived away by the Times? Really? That’s why Vivek calling out the lying corrupt media strikes a chord with us. We all know THAT’S true.
And the look on Welker’s face was priceless.
I'd like to check the context of quotes like this, which make Ramaswamy sound either inept or invidious.
Embrace the healing power of "and"
I tend to distrust people who show up expecting their slick bon-mots to play in Peoria
How weird. I had the same exact reaction to many of Haley's stupid rehearsed lines. "These heels aren't for fashion. They're for ammunition." WTF is that supposed to even mean, besides being a ridiculous falsehood? Of course they're for fashion. Lame. Most of her BS sounds canned. Like Christie.
Temujin said...
Vivek won the night with actual conservatives in the first minute when he called out Ronna Romney McDaniel to come up on stage and resign, then tore into the GOP having their debate hosted by NBC and their mouthpieces.
So nice he managed teh basics.
but, what's he managed besides that?
What has he actually accomplished, ever?
Trump's RNC Ronna is garbage, and needs to go.
Letting Democrats be debate "moderators" at a GOP Primary debate is insane.
Pretending DeSantis, who goes to war against left wing big business, is "GOP Establishment" is what you do when you've got nothing
Note Vivek is formulating almost all his pointed remarks to be received by the 40-and-under voters he can reach. It's just that occasionally us boomers like it too, especially when he's skewering despised figures.
The democratic/dictatorial duality is representative of the Slavic Spring in the Obama/Biden's world ethnic Spring series... diversity, equivalence, and inclusion (DEI).
Tina Trent said...
Vivek has just not lived up to expectations. He's no good at retail politics. And he lacks the decades of experience Trump gained in the hardscrabble world of property development. He talks good words. Not a compliment.
I tend to distrust people who show up expecting their slick bon-mots to play in Peoria. He's becoming the Pete Buttigeig of the GOP candidates.
Yes. This, exactly
Haley and DeSantis need to have that serious talk. I won't abandon Trump, but objectively, he abandoned his promises to us, even if he is being persecuted -- but he also made very stupid choices for advisors. Vote for him again? Hell yeah. Hope for an alternative? Hell yeah.
If Trump is the GOP nominee, I'll vote for him. But I'll do so knowing he'll be a complete failure, and spend another 4 years getting beat by the Deep State.
because he sucks at appointing people in politics. And his love affair with Ronna shows that he hasn't learned anything since 2020
Nikki is a dumpster file.
DeSantis, who doesn't want US boots on the ground in Ukraine, doesn't want Hamas boots on the ground in the US, understands the letting in "Gaza refugees" inherently leads to Hamas boots on the ground in the US, and goes to war with the left in big corporations and big education.
He's the diametric opposite of "GOP Establishment"
A reminder that Nazis are on the left.
Always have been...
"What the...?!?! ...Oh... Rich. Never mind."
Mike -- I'm not crazy about Haley, but she has wide enough appeal to bolster the vote. I do think she would help the election as VP to DeSantis.
Whoever can win. Vivek's a breath of fresh air, but his style of attack can be turned on him pretty easily. He would be a fun VP, but he's scorching his chances.
Leland (6:33am):
"This is the same Zelensky that just canceled national elections."
Hogwash. He postponed the elections because (a) the Ukrainian constitution does not permit elections in wartime, (b) millions of Ukrainians would be unable to vote because they are under Russian occupation or have been deported to Siberia, and (c) lines of voters at known polling-place locations would be slaughtered by Russians bombs, missiles, and drones. The Russians have murdered dozens of people at a time by striking crowds of fleeing civilians at train stations, or (quite recently) striking a funeral and killing 58, which was 1/3 or more of the population of a small town. (One not-much-missed commentator claimed they were all uniformed soldiers, but the U.N. and the international press investigated and they were in fact civilian mourners.) Postponing the election is the only thing he can do in the circumstances. If the US had only provided the F-16s, M-1 tanks, and ATACMS missiles promised long ago, he could have had the elections at the usual time, because the war would be over, but Biden and the idiots working for him haven't done that.
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