Althouse: Sunrise in the rain — 6:39, 6:45, 6:49/

September 24, 2023

Sunrise in the rain — 6:39, 6:45, 6:49/

75 comments:

farmgirl said...: That looks like a volcanic explosion!!!
To me, anyway. Mind boggling the extreme colors- in every single sunrise.

Maybe it looks literally like the birth of a new day.; 9/24/23, 7:09 PM
gilbar said...: yet Another chance, for people here to say:
what gilbar is saying is TOTALLY False!
what gilbar is saying comes from UNAPPROVED sources!
what gilbar is saying is old news, that We ALL Knew the WHOLE TIME!!
what gilbar is saying doesn't even Matter, because GILBAR IS STUPID!!
We can TELL, that GILBAR IS STUPID, because He USES CAPS!!!

The Economist says we must prepare for a forever war in Ukraine

The Economist starts out by finally acknowledging that the counteroffensive — which it has been hyping for months — has been a catastrophic failure:
“Ukraine has liberated less than 0.25% of the territory that Russia occupied in June. The 1,000km front line has barely shifted”.
This is what 40,000 Ukrainians died for (official estimate, so probably more). And what’s worse, this was entirely predictable
he Economist admits, but peace (or even a ceasefire) is not an option — then what options are left?
The Economist’s answer should send a spill down every European’s spine:
“Both Ukraine and its Western supporters are coming to realise that this will be a grinding war of attrition. ... Both [Ukraine and its Western backers) are still fixated on the counter-offensive. They need to rethink Ukraine’s military strategy and how its economy is run. Instead of aiming to ‘win’ and then rebuild, the goal should be to ensure that Ukraine has the staying power to wage a long war — and can thrive despite it”.
In other words, a forever war of attrition that will do little to change the current boundaries, which will remain largely frozen.

Let it Rip, People! i'm waiting!!; 9/24/23, 7:15 PM
BUMBLE BEE said...: Knockouts! Great shots.; 9/24/23, 7:24 PM
Lem Vibe Bandit said...: Tears in the rain is said to be one of the best if not the best movie speeches ever. A graphic groan saying “I was here”.

In that light, sunrise in the rain could be a grateful “I get to be here.”

Can you believe that? Can you believe we’re still here?; 9/24/23, 7:33 PM
Eva Marie said...: Hey, Jimmy Carter is still going strong.
From US News: “Former President Jimmy Carter and his wife, Rosalynn Carter, were spotted Saturday at a festival in his hometown of Plains, Georgia.
The Carter Center reshared a video of the former President, 98, and former first lady, 96, riding in a black SUV at the Plains Peanut Festival.”
He turns 99 a week from now on October 1.
To Pres. Carter, Bob Dylan, and all the rest of us: “Enjoy every sandwich.” (the late great Warren Zevon); 9/24/23, 7:51 PM
Jaq said...: It’s amazing to me the number of people defending Ukrainian Nazi collaborators in WWII on the grounds that some of them may not have been directly involved in the stuff that so many of them were involved in, namely the ethnic cleansing of Poles from that part of modern Ukraine that Stalin got in a deal with Hitler, not to mention hundreds of thousands of Jews, on the grounds that some of them were fighting against our ally at the time, the Red Army, and trying to halt its advance towards Berlin. You know, fighting on Hitler’s side.

Of course the CIA and Kiev spend a great deal of time spinning history on Wikipedia, so if that’s your only source on the history of Ukraine, you are being misled.; 9/24/23, 8:03 PM
Bill Crawford said...: I searched online but could not find a (medical?) rationale for Sen Fetterman's wardrobe choices. Can any of you enlighten me on this topic?; 9/24/23, 8:12 PM
gilbar said...: https://www.wsj.com/world/europe/russias-army-learns-from-its-mistakes-in-ukraine-a6b2eb4?mod=hp_lead_pos1
Russia has since learned from its mistakes, adapting in ways that could make it difficult for Ukraine to expel Russian forces from its territory.

After Ukraine easily swept through Russia’s lines in the Kharkiv region last autumn, Moscow spent months preparing formidable defenses ahead of the current Ukrainian counteroffensive in the south. Moscow is also deploying drones to scope out and attack Ukrainian positions in a way that Kyiv has struggled to respond to.

As a result, Ukrainian forces have advanced slowly in the past few months, facing dense minefields while Russian helicopters, antitank missiles and artillery pick them off.
Ukrainian troops on the front lines around Bakhmut say they lose dozens of drones daily because Russian jamming equipment is successfully bringing them down on enemy territory.

Ukrainian officials say the Russians have procured thousands of cheap drones produced on the Chinese market by the manufacturer DJI. Russia has also expedited the production of Geran-3 drones in cooperation with Iran, menacing Ukrainian cities in a bid to undermine morale as it pounds Ukrainian forces on the front lines.

Russia’s war machine is adapting at home as well, managing to sustain and even increase defense production of some items despite sanctions.

Western officials thought Russia could produce about 100 tanks a year, but the actual tank production is closer to 200 a year now, according to a Western defense official.

The West thought Russia might be able to produce about one million artillery shells a year, the Western defense official said. But now it believes Russia is on a path over the next couple of years to produce two million artillery shells annually.

The WSJ, Yet another unapproved source?; 9/24/23, 8:21 PM
Jamie said...: Rain... What a concept!

(Southeast Texas is undergoing a bit of a drought at present... Grass is still SORT of green but our begonias are dead as doornails.); 9/24/23, 8:36 PM
Dear corrupt left, go F yourselves said...: Reuters - Our Open Southern Border.

Hack-D CNN Maddow NPR PBS(D) press - 'nuh uh.'; 9/24/23, 8:51 PM
walter said...: "In the months since he returned to his small-town home to meet his final fate, the outpouring of remembrances has been heartening to his family and friends. Instead of a memorial service he could not attend, Mr. Carter has experienced a living eulogy, soaking up tributes from around the globe. Relatives and advisers say he is aware of what has been written and said, and is deeply grateful.

“He’s got so much joy in seeing his presidency and post-presidency revisited,” said Paige Alexander, the chief executive of the Carter Center, the nonprofit institution that served as the base for his philanthropic work over the last four decades. “In many ways, that keeps him going — along with peanut butter ice cream.”
<
Mr. Carter was not suffering any particular ailment that prompted him to enter hospice care last February, according to people close to him, but was tired of being in and out of the hospital and wanted to spend his final days at home with Mrs. Carter. Hospice is defined as care for terminally ill patients when the priority is not to provide further treatment but to reduce pain and discomfort toward the end of life. It is meant for patients not expected to live more than six months.

Perhaps it should have been no surprise that Mr. Carter would ignore that time frame. He has been defying death longer than anyone who ever served in the Oval Office. In 2015, he beat cancer that had spread to his brain. In 2019, he bounced back from several falls, including one that broke a hip. “He’s been faced with what he thought was the end multiple times,” Jason Carter said.

He spends his days now in the house where he and Mrs. Carter have lived since 1961, a two-bedroom, one-story rambler so plain that The Washington Post once calculated that it was worth less than the Secret Service vehicles parked out front. His children and grandchildren take turns visiting with them, and he has a crew of caregivers but has not seen a doctor in more than six months. President Biden calls from time to time to check in."

Enjoy every ice cream.; 9/24/23, 8:55 PM
gilbar said...: Mayo Clinic Website Now Says Hydroxychloroquine CAN Be Used to Treat COVID-19 Patients, Previously Claimed It Was Not Effective
wait a minute.. I'm confused.. It's ALMOST AS IF, they were Lying to us, the Whole Time; 9/24/23, 9:23 PM
Humperdink said...: "Can any of you enlighten me on this topic?"

Why yes I can as I am an expert in this field. According to American Psychiatric Association, John Fetterman's clothing choices are considered emotional support garments. As you recall, he checked out of the hospital in March after having suffered from depression. It was only through the use of homeless attire was he able to heal as rapidly as he did. As the healing process continues, don't be surprised if he doesn't upgrade to sweatpants, tank tops, and flipflops.; 9/24/23, 9:29 PM
Lem Vibe Bandit said...: What Tim in Vermont said…@8:03

As far as I’m concerned, Wikipedia is being censored just like Russell Brand.; 9/24/23, 11:46 PM
gadfly said...: Eva Marie said...
Hey, Jimmy Carter is still going strong.

Jimmy is 99 and in hospice care at home. Rosalynn has dementia.; 9/25/23, 12:16 AM
The Crack Emcee said...: Today's headlines keep getting,...head; 9/25/23, 1:06 AM
Lem Vibe Bandit said...: Silver lining of sorts from the Russell Brand and Dave Portnoy affair. These two media figures got a heads-up from people who saw what the press was about to do and said I better do something. They are reaping what they’ve sown.

They still went ahead undeterred, which in a way shows the rot is real. There’s no exaggeration to call it what it is.; 9/25/23, 2:48 AM
Lem Vibe Bandit said...: And thank goodness there’s also places with microphones still available for people to air their grievances.

God bless the platform formerly known as Twitter and the little video platform that could Rumble in the speech jungle.; 9/25/23, 2:55 AM
planetgeo said...: Exactly what is the point of pickleball? It's kind of like chess on a 2x2 chessboard, or table tennis without the table. I guess it's for tennis players that don't like to move very much. You know, like married sex.; 9/25/23, 3:51 AM
Kai Akker said...: A couple more excerpts from Helen Andrews' review, "Look Back in Anger: The Lights are Going Off in South Africa."

https://claremontreviewofbooks.com/look-back-in-anger/

“Activist” is a mild word for what Dipuo did in the freedom struggle. A better word would be “terrorist.” She tells [book author] Fairbanks about a grocery store in Soweto whose owner she thought was a police informer, so she burned down the building. She pulled another suspected spy from her bed and helped stone the woman to death on her front lawn. Both the grocery store owner and the woman later turned out to be innocent. “When I asked her whether she ever participated in a necklacing”—the brutal form of punishment used by the ANC where the victim is doused in gasoline and a burning tire placed over his head—“she just looked down and was silent,” writes Fairbanks. Dipuo’s nom de guerre in the ANC was “Stalin.”

...

Every suburban home is equipped with fortress-like gates and electric fences to prevent break-ins and push-in robberies, as well as with neighborhood private security to substitute for the ineffectual police. Trucks are robbed on the highway so frequently that the port of Durban is losing business to Mozambique, where the roads are safer. Railroad companies find it impossible to maintain service on lines where vandals have ripped up the tracks to sell for scrap. Food imports keep rising as the country becomes less and less able to feed itself due to misguided agricultural policy, aimed more at redistributing land to favored constituents than to producing crops....South Africa has come full circle: Under apartheid, electricity was unreliable in black townships; after 30 years of ANC rule, electricity is unreliable everywhere. Middle-class homes own gas generators as a matter of course in case of sudden outages.

... Would better leaders have saved South Africa? This is a standard argument: Mandela was a great man, then Thabo Mbeki and his successors screwed it up. The assumption is that if we could find another leader as good as Mandela, everything would be fine. This is unlikely. Consider Eskom, the embattled utility unable to provide reliable power. What could a new Mandela do about rampant theft from the company’s warehouses, where valuable replacement parts are often found stripped of their copper and left useless? Or about the refusal of many customers (including the vast majority of Sowetans) to pay their bills? In 1984, when the apartheid government tried to make one neighborhood of delinquent customers pay higher electricity bills, the resulting riot led to three local officials being hacked to death and their bodies burned in the street.

...

The 1994 handover compressed into the blink of an eye a transition that the United States is undergoing more slowly: the regime’s old heroes “became losers who had labored for a collapsed and discredited cause,” and “people of color took their places in the president’s office, in Parliament, on the committees that write the school history books.” The defining characteristic of white South Africans today is their lack of moral standing. They have been so discredited over apartheid that they have no basis for making claims in the public sphere. This lack of moral authority is more important than their being demographically outnumbered, a fate that is still a long way off for whites in the U.S. (but not unthinkable, as they’ve gone from 89% of the country to 58% in two generations). It should be obvious to everyone by now that this lack of moral standing is what Black Lives Matter and the 1619 Project have in mind for white Americans. They want to take the same moral certainty with which we condemn Jim Crow and extend it to everything white Americans have ever done until, like white South Africans, we feel grateful just to have our continuing presence tolerated.; 9/25/23, 4:37 AM
tim maguire said...: Bill Crawford said...I searched online but could not find a (medical?) rationale for Sen Fetterman's wardrobe choices.

My theory (otherwise known as a WAG) is that the tumour he is hiding prevents him from wearing properly fitted clothing.; 9/25/23, 5:27 AM
wendybar said...: "The citizen is a serf, the illegal alien the veritable citizen. The former needs a passport to reenter the country, the latter is waved on through. There is a slob in gym shorts and a hoodie establishing dress codes for the Senate, teen murderers bragging that they won’t spend a day in jail, and a would-be state legislator filming herself doing sexual gymnastics while begging for cash only to be upset over the invasion of her “privacy.” So the Left got what it wanted and gave us our new America."

https://amgreatness.com/2023/09/25/is-the-left-happy-that-they-got-their-wish/; 9/25/23, 5:37 AM
jaydub said...: Bill Crawford: Actually, it's a no-brainer.; 9/25/23, 5:47 AM
Owen said...: Great pics.; 9/25/23, 5:48 AM
mezzrow said...: That's pretty spectacular. Sailor take warning.; 9/25/23, 6:29 AM
rehajm said...: The Portnoy pizza festival went off fine except for the weather. The WaPo piece was a hit job as expected, perhaps tempered a bit by the whiny WaPo lady being caught with her hand in the cookie jar. Lots of the accusations are guilty verdicts, the type they reserve only for conservatives. Funny, I don't think Portnoy is conservative but he definitely doesn't promote liberal policies. I guess that's enough...; 9/25/23, 6:29 AM
MadTownGuy said...: Thousands of minks on the loose in Northumberland County (PA)

"SUNBURY, Pa. — Animal experts are warning people in Northumberland County after thousands of minks were released from a fur farm.

According to state police, in the early hours of Sunday morning, someone *cough PETA* broke into a mink farm along Route 890 in Rockefeller Township, south of Sunbury. Whoever broke in cut holes in the fencing and opened up all the cages.

"Approximately 7,000 escaped (from) the facility. Now, how many that got outside the fenced area, we don't know, but it was a sizable number from our estimation," said Pennsylvania Game Warden Mike Workman.

Thousands of mink are now roaming a section of Northumberland County. All mink released were bred in captivity and may be different from those found in the wild.

"The mink that escaped are going to be a couple of different colors. You're going to see them in the white color phase, black and brown. Now, most of the wild mink are going to be of that brown and tannish color.'"

Workman had some advice about what you should do if you see one.

"Just stay away. Don't touch it, don't try to trap it, and don't try to catch it. They will bite you, and they can potentially hurt you. We want to make sure the public is safe."; 9/25/23, 6:46 AM
Owen said...: On second look at the pics, they should come with embedded soundtrack from Richard Strauss' "Also Sprach Zarathustra." Or, as we know it, "2001."; 9/25/23, 6:49 AM
Owen said...: On second look at the pics, they should come with embedded soundtrack from Richard Strauss' "Also Sprach Zarathustra." Or, as we know it, "2001."; 9/25/23, 6:49 AM
Owen said...: Tim in Vermont @ 8:03: Having recently read "Bloodlands," I think we are in very troubled waters here.; 9/25/23, 6:51 AM
Jaq said...: Remember when Canadian workers united and were protesting against the Canadian government forcing them to take an untested vaccine in order to make their living, and Trudeau called them "fascist," and yet the Canadian Parliament just gave a Nazi collaborator a standing ovation.; 9/25/23, 6:55 AM
Humperdink said...: gadfly said: "Jimmy is 99 and in hospice care at home.... "

....... and considering throwing his hat into the ring for president.; 9/25/23, 7:16 AM
Humperdink said...: planetgeo asked: "Exactly what is the point of pickleball? ..... I guess it's for tennis players that don't like to move very much.... "

Sort of. I have played for 3+ years. For people like me with 72 year old knees, it's been a Godsend. As you say, not as much ground to cover as with tennis, but one still needs to move rapidly in short bursts. Also need quick hands. I love the competition.; 9/25/23, 7:27 AM
Iman said...: “My theory (otherwise known as a WAG) is that the tumour he is hiding prevents him from wearing properly fitted clothing.“

A mustache won’t hide Fetterman’s tumor. A hat won’t either.; 9/25/23, 8:00 AM
tim maguire said...: planetgeo said...Exactly what is the point of pickleball? It's kind of like chess on a 2x2 chessboard, or table tennis without the table. I guess it's for tennis players that don't like to move very much.

I'd never heard of it prior to The Goldbergs. I suspect it was invented for that show. But here's a partial explainer.; 9/25/23, 8:14 AM
Mike of Snoqualmie said...: It was only through the use of homeless attire was he able to heal as rapidly as he did.

I've seen better dressed homeless vagrants.; 9/25/23, 8:16 AM
Mike of Snoqualmie said...: We're in for a solid week of rain. It started last Saturday and will continue until Friday night. Not good for removing rocks from my rock farm in preparation of planting grass.; 9/25/23, 8:18 AM
Gahrie said...: What did the NAZIs do that that was worse than what the Soviets did?; 9/25/23, 8:29 AM
wendybar said...: gadfly said...
Eva Marie said...
Hey, Jimmy Carter is still going strong.

Jimmy is 99 and in hospice care at home. Rosalynn has dementia.

9/25/23, 12:16 AM

Except, Jimmy Carter and Rosalynn both surprised parade goers at the Peanut parade on Saturday. Try to keep up.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/travel/other/jimmy-carter-makes-surprise-trip-to-plains-peanut-festival-in-georgia-ahead-of-99th-birthday/ar-AA1hegH1#image=1; 9/25/23, 8:31 AM
BUMBLE BEE said...: tim in vermont & Owen... It clearly is a Yom Kippur celebration by two of a kind.; 9/25/23, 8:31 AM
gilbar said...: Thousands of minks on the loose in Northumberland County (PA)
"Approximately 7,000 escaped (from) the facility..said Pennsylvania Game Warden Mike Workman.

advice about what you should do if you see one.
"Just stay away. Don't touch it, don't try to trap it, and don't try to catch it. They will bite you, and they can potentially hurt you. We want to make sure the public is safe."

JESUS!
1st we Had to worry about murderous gangs of Otters.. now Mobs of Murderous Minks!!!; 9/25/23, 9:47 AM
Jaq said...: "What did the NAZIs do that that was worse than what the Soviets did?"

I am old enough to have a father that fought the Nazis in WWII. It's nice that you think it's great that the Ukrainians fought on the other side; the main consequences of their fighting was to keep the death camps running longer. But if history is a fuzzy thing to you, where dates get screwed up, I can see why a little thing like fighting on Hitler's side in WWII was no big deal, even if a little genocide was involved.

If we are asking questions like this though, what has Russia ever done to the United States besides sell us Alaska and help us defeat the Nazis? It's an honest question. I am trying to think of something, anything that can justify this eternal enmity. It it just that they are "the gentlemen of the other firm" as it was put in "Das Boot"?

These blood feuds don't involve America, and we should not get dragged into them by people who bring them from the Old World, like Ukrainian Canadians.; 9/25/23, 10:10 AM
Mike of Snoqualmie said...: NAZIs and Soviets are kissing cousins. Both subscribe to the "Shut the F. Up and do what the state says" political policies. Some group has to be their bête noire, it's the Jews for both of them.; 9/25/23, 10:21 AM
Narr said...: There were no "the Ukrainians."

"The" Ukrainians were as divided by class, religion, history, and political preference as any population in the region. Some Ukes ended up as subjects of successor states, and the bulk of them ended up in the USSR, where they were deliberately starved by the millions by the Moscow regime. Not exactly a recipe for fraternal relations.

More Ukes were bagged in '39-40, and also began to enjoy the benefits of Red/Russian rule--expropriation, exile, and oppression.

So yes, blood feuds. Some Ukes threw in with the Germans (just as did some men in almost every country in Europe) but many more were drafted into the Red Army, where they made up a significant portion of the manpower, and were often distrusted and blamed for every defeat.

That's history.

At any rate, if the question is one of American national interest, moralizing about small massacres in the context of massive ones isn't really that helpful.; 9/25/23, 10:51 AM
gilbar said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; 9/25/23, 11:02 AM
BG said...: A friend sent out a gift article from the NYT. It was written by David French called "Being There." Basically it's about friendship and the loss of belonging. (E.g., so busy with work, children, etc. that your friendships fall by the wayside.)

What struck me was a comment I read:
"I lost my best friend Phil of 30 years (an old work colleague) on January 6, 2021. I called him that afternoon begging him to turn on the TV and see with his own eyes and ears the attack on the nation’s capital.

“What about Hunter Biden,” he said.

That was the last time we spoke."

So he couldn't put politics aside to keep a 30-year friendship. No "let's agree to disagree" and go on with the interests they had in common. If I kept friends who believed ONLY the exact same things I did - I would have no friends. Then again, the commenter could have been one of those "in your face" individuals.; 9/25/23, 11:16 AM
Jaq said...: "Some Ukes threw in with the Germans."

Not only were did Ukes collaborate with the Nazis in shepherding hundreds of thousands of Jews to the death camps, I guess I am including the Poles they killed, but killing Poles was just a bonus for the Ukrainians, opening up for them the region of Poland that Hitler and Stalin agreed to make part of Ukraine part of their project of creating an ethnically pure Ukrainian state, you know, like France or Spain, but these same murderous Ukrainians are lionized by or "pro-democracy" allies to this day. If this was some unfortunate activity by a few rogue outliers, they wouldn't not be lionized by the government there today, would not have soccer stadiums named after them, or parks, or streets.

Oh yeah, and what are the arguments being sold to the American people if not dime store moralizing? What if I don't buy the argument that the only way America can be safe is if American cronies of our president are in charge of divvying up Russia's mineral wealth after we split up the Russian Federation? What if I think that maybe we should learn the lessons of the two world wars, and try to get along?

Ukrainian/Soviet blood feuds are none of America's business. The Soviet Union collapsed in the early '90s. It's gone. Thank you Ronald Reagan. Hang up the spurs, the job is done. Krushchev was a Ukrainian. The Ukrainians were part of it. If Ukrainians weren't so bent on revenge, they would be enjoying peace right now.; 9/25/23, 11:21 AM
Candide said...: "What did the NAZIs do that that was worse than what the Soviets did?"

Well, NAZIs declared war on the Unites States.

That may seem like a technicality, but let us explore the implications. Soviet Communists committed many horrible atrocities, but the fact remains that USA and USSR were Allies in the war against Nazi Germany. That makes everybody fighting on the side of Nazi Germany an enemy of the US during WW2.

Now, that was a very complicated affair and there is probably certain amount of truth that some people joined the NAZIs to fight against Soviet Communists. There was Russian Liberation Army under German command, for instance, dedicated to Liberation of Russia from Communists. So it is possible that some people joined Ukrainian Nationalists motivated primarily to fight against Soviet Communists. After WW2 some of those people were able to escape to the West. However, they still remained known as Nazi collaborators during WW2 and thus enemy combatants against Allies, including the US (and Canada). The implicit deal was that they may go about their lives, keep quiet and US authorities will look the other way. That is how it worked until recently. Now we suddenly have a sordid spectacle of NAZI collaborator applauded by the Parliament of Canada. This man was not applauded for fighting against Communists, he was applauded for fighting against "the Russians"!

However silly and contradictory US popular culture might have been, a number of principles were always maintained; one of these principles was hatred of the Nazis (so memorably expressed by Dr. Indiana Jones). Nazis were presenting the struggle between political systems in racial terms. Now Canadian parliament is doing the same exact thing.; 9/25/23, 12:13 PM
Narr said...: No, tim-in-vermomnt, Stalin and Hitler never intended to set up an ethnically-pure Ukraine "like Spain or France." Why would either one want that?

It's hard to take you seriously when you keep blowing stuff like that out your farthole.

What some people can't acknowledge is that most Ukrainians were garden variety nationalists, just like most Germans, or Poles, or Frenchmen, or Spaniards. And the last few centuries have proven that nationalism is the strongest thing going, and national heroes are not always the nicest people in that part of the world (and others).

None of which should be taken as endorsing any policy except pursuing American interests.

I wrote the Canadians off years ago (after many years of admiration). I doubt that 15% of Canadians (or Americans) could find Kyiv on a globe, or give any clear account of the events of the 1930s-40s there, much less parse the loyalties.; 9/25/23, 2:06 PM
Temp Blog said...: "That makes everybody fighting on the side of Nazi Germany an enemy of the US during WW2."

So that would include the USSR, which was allied with Nazi Germany from the signing of the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact, the joint invasion/occupation of Poland, and until the invasion of the USSR by Nazi Germany and its allies.

So we were enemies of the USSR until we weren't I guess.

Let's also keep in mind that the US intervened in the Russian civil war after the Bolshevik revolution, so we were already enemies. From 1917 through to 1990 the USSR was doing its level best to infiltrate the US and foment a revolution here. That's not exactly the move an ally does.

And let's keep in mind that all of the annexations of territory in Austria, Czechoslovakia, and Memel by Germany and the joint dismemberment of Czechosolvakia by Germany, Poland, and Hungary were viewed as not being America's problem and we would never have intervened in Europe absent the German declaration of war in 1941 at the behest of Japan.

Bringing this discussion forward: Putin used the Crimean and Donbas Russians in the exact same manner as Hitler used his lackeys in Austria, Sudetenland, Memel, and Danzig. He's followed Hitler's playbook to a tee. And he has similar goals, broadly and publicly stated in the same fashion has Hitler.

Putin isn't Hitler. But he rhymes.; 9/25/23, 2:48 PM
gahrie said...: If we are asking questions like this though, what has Russia ever done to the United States besides sell us Alaska and help us defeat the Nazis? It's an honest question. I am trying to think of something, anything that can justify this eternal enmity.

The whole "cold war, trying to conquer the world" thing completely escaped your notice? You know the "we will bury you with the rope you sell us"?

Death camps, intentional starvation and genocide are fine if the Russians do them?

Soviet occupation of Eastern Europe was a minor misunderstanding?

Soviet attempts to overthrow democracies around the world just hunky-dory?

I bet you have a poster of Che on your wall, don't you?

I am trying to think of something, anything that can justify this insistence that the Russian Soviets weren't at least as evil as the German NAZIs.; 9/25/23, 2:58 PM
Jaq said...: None of the things you listed were directed at the United States, gahrie. And none of them were Russia. You are focused on the Soviets. The Soviet Union is gone. It was not exclusively Russian, either.

Stalin? Georgian
Krushchev? Ukrainian, born in Russia, then immediately moved to Ukraine, rose to power in Ukraine.
Brezhnev? Ukrainian

Two Russians in four years in the mid eighties, and then half-Ukrainian Gorbachev.

So sure, say "Russian Soviets" all you want, but Ukraine was as involved in the crimes of the Soviet Union as anybody.

If the whole purpose of the Kiev regime is to right historical wrongs, the way we seem to be told, when are they going to return Galicia, seized from Poland by Stalin?; 9/25/23, 4:51 PM
Jaq said...: I am not sure why we should be involved in a war to right the wrongs that commies committed against nazis.

Wouldn't a couple of hundred billion dollars go a long way to settling outstanding Indian land claims, because some of the wrongs that Kiev is complaining about against Russia go that far back.; 9/25/23, 4:58 PM
Jaq said...: "No, tim-in-vermomnt, Stalin and Hitler never intended to set up an ethnically-pure Ukraine "like Spain or France." Why would either one want that?"

Well, I mis-punctuated that sentence. No, it's Kiev that has been trying to set up an ethnically pure Ukraine, first they get rid of the Poles, now they plan to drive out the ethnic Russians.

This is from US funded Ukrainian TV from way before the intervention by Russia in the civil war.

"Butkevich said "Donbass must be exploited as a resource". He did not claim to have a final solution ("quick solution recipe"), but said "the most important thing that must be done- no matter how cruel it may sound – there is a certain category of people that MUST BE EXTERMINATED"

https://twitter.com/ClimateAudit/status/1501054499129110528

This is why the naziism is so concerning in Ukraine, not because they like to paint German crosses on their tanks, which they do, it's the ideas that they take as normal.; 9/25/23, 5:08 PM
wendybar said...: It's time for MASS DEPORTATIONS of the invaders at the border.

They were so desperate to flee their country of origin that they immediately planted that country's flag in Texas?

https://x.com/mirandadevine/status/1706368515274371557?s=20; 9/25/23, 6:00 PM
Candide said...: Temp Blog,

History is arranged in chronological order. Mixing historical events out of chronological order may be fun but misleading and disorienting.

US entered into WW1 in April 1917, joining Entente Allies (France, UK, Russia, Japan & Italy). November 1917 Bolsheviks (Reds) took power in Russia, made peace with Germany and renounced Entente Alliance. US intervened in Russian Civil war on behalf of the Whites, who had grounds to claim to be the legitimate Russian government, in part because they never made peace with Imperial Germany and remained Allies with Entente Powers. Reds prevailed in Russian Civil war and created USSR in 1922. US didn't recognize USSR until 1933.

USSR made non-aggression Pact with Nazi Germany in August 1939. September 1939 Nazi Germany invaded Poland, and France and Great Britain declared war on the Nazi Germany. US maintained diplomatic relations with both sides. Nazi Germany attacked USSR in June 1941 and USSR quickly became Allies with Great Britain and France. Japan attacked Pearl Harbor and declared war on US December 7, 1941, and Germany declared war on US the next day, then US joined European Allies (Great Britain, France and USSR) in WW2. US and USSR remained allies until the end of WW2.

After destruction of Nazi Germany and Imperial Japan, WW2 alliance was dissolved and the World entered into so-called Cold War period, which was characterized by covert hostilities and peripheral wars between USSR and the West, but never direct military confrontation. USSR fell apart in 1991 and the Cold War was assumed to be over.; 9/25/23, 6:35 PM
Gahrie said...: None of the things you listed were directed at the United States, gahrie.

The Cold War wasn't directed at the United States? Russian "advisors" shooting down American planes wasn't directed at the United States?

Besides...what did the NAZIs do that was directed at the United States?; 9/25/23, 6:43 PM
West TX Intermediate Crude said...: If Russian expansionism is a threat to anyone, it would be to Germany and other currently independent but adjacent eastern European nations.
Some of them are arming up, some are not.
Their failure to plan does not make it our emergency, to coin a phrase. Some American politicians have been warning them about this situation for a decade or more, encouraging them to meet their NATO obligations. Yet it seems that we are sending Ukraine massive aid. Every day we get closer to American troops getting directly involved.
However nice that it may sound in the abstract to oppose aggression, to me it means that my active duty child will be in harm's way. Yes, he did sign up for that, but to get shot in a dispute between Ukrainians and Russians, which has absolutely no effect on the USA? Hell, no!
The most we should be doing is selling equipment that they can't get on the open market. If they can't afford it, hit up the Germans, or Czechs, or whoever will benefit most from deterring Russian aggression. Every dollar we are sending there is being borrowed, to be repaid by our grandchildren.
Enough!; 9/25/23, 7:09 PM
Candide said...: gahrie,

Expression "Russian Soviets" puts things upside down.

USSR (Union of Soviet Socialist Republics) was the State that ruled over many ethnic people. There were Soviet Russians, Soviet Ukrainians, Soviet Estonians and so on... Saying "Russian Soviets" implies that USSR was a Russian project, which was never the case. USSR was an International Socialist project, destined to bring about World-wide Socialist Revolution, with the lands of defunct Russian Empire as the original base of operations.

Soviet Communists committed many horrible atrocities. Perhaps the only thing they were innocent of was Nationalism. They were against any sort of Nationalism by definition. They murdered Russians, Ukrainians, Kazakhs, Tartars and many other ethnic people indiscriminately. The only criteria they used was the world-wide triumph of Marxist/Leninist version of International Socialism.; 9/25/23, 7:31 PM
Candide said...: Gahrie said...

Besides...what did the NAZIs do that was directed at the United States?

Besides declaring war on the US December 8, 1941?; 9/25/23, 7:35 PM
Narr said...: Let's leave aside the once well-known fact that the Bolsheviks didn't overthrow the Tsar, they overthrew the liberal regime that wanted to honor the commitment to the war against the Kaiser.

Not to mention the once well-known fact that the Scientific Socialist Bolsheviks made no secret of their disdain for bourgeois norms and regimes, or their intent to overthrow them by any means necessary.

The Allied interventions in Russia had no clearer or grander objective than keeping military munitions and other supplies in Russia's ports out of the hands of the Reds. And why not? A few divisions from six or seven countries spaced around the periphery of the former empire, then and now the largest country on the planet? Not the basis for some Capitalist Crusade.

Once the Reds won the civil war and lost the one against the Poles, they started cooperating secretly with the German military to test and develop tactics and weapons deep inside the USSR, in a program that lasted until the early 30s and was terminated by the Germans IIRC.

All this against the backdrop of arbitrary Communist policies enforced by terror. (And widespread Western corporate collaboration on infrastructure and automation projects, utilizing state slaves and sometimes paid for by selling the former empire's artistic and cultural treasures to the likes of Armand Hammer, though this is not so well known.)

Of course, while the Reds and their various Western enablers were tiptoeing around, bien-pensants in the West were jizzing themselves at the thought of revolutionary violence, as usually happens.; 9/25/23, 7:42 PM
gilbar said...: Fun Fact:
The western part of present-day Ukraine was subsequently split between Russia and Habsburg-ruled Austria after the fall of the Polish–Lithuanian Commonwealth in 1795
That's RIGHT! The western half of the Ukraine, was part of the Austrian empire until the end of WWI.
and, by Habsburg-ruled Austria.. They mean: GERMANS..
Half of the Ukraine LOVES NAZIS.. Because half of Ukrainian are GERMANS; Which is why russians don't like that half; 9/25/23, 8:45 PM
Gahrie said...: Besides declaring war on the US December 8, 1941?

And the USSR was never at war with the U.S....right?; 9/25/23, 8:49 PM
Gahrie said...: Saying "Russian Soviets" implies that USSR was a Russian project, which was never the case.

So the deliberate starvation of non-Russians never happened, moving large numbers of Russian ethnics to the various Soviet states never happened, the attempted eradication of native languages and cultures in favor of the Russian language and culture never happened?; 9/25/23, 8:53 PM
Candide said...: Narr said,

"Once the Reds won the civil war and lost the one against the Poles, they started cooperating secretly with the German military to test and develop tactics and weapons deep inside the USSR, in a program that lasted until the early 30s and was terminated by the Germans IIRC."

I think this came to an end about time Nazis came to power in Germany. It certainly was going on in the 1920-s, when Weimar Germany was not considered a threat.

One result of it was that invading German troops often knew Russian terrain better than Soviet troops, because they practiced war games there for a long time and were taking careful notes.; 9/25/23, 9:03 PM
Candide said...: Gahrie,

'Deliberate starvation' in USSR definitely happened, due to Communist policies against Russians and non-Russians.; 9/25/23, 9:12 PM
Candide said...: "...attempted eradication of native languages and cultures in favor of the Russian language and culture..."

Not much. Russian language studies were mandatory everywhere, for logical reason that Soviet Empire needed one language to communicate across all parts and Russian was already accepted as main language (kind of like English in English speaking world). However, local people languages were taught also.

For example, in Ukrainian SSR schoolchildren started learning Ukrainian language from grade 1 and Russian language from grade 2.; 9/25/23, 9:27 PM
Candide said...: "...moving large numbers of Russian ethnics to the various Soviet states..."

Need to be very careful with these assertions, because implications can be quite unexpected.

For example, Donbass region was assigned to Ukrainian SSR with explicit intent to add Russian Industrial Proletariat to dilute the numbers of mostly Agrarian ethnic people. Then in 1954 the Crimean Autonomous region, that was more than 90% ethnic Russian was included into Ukrainian SSR for similar reasons. Did it mean that ethnic Russian population in Ukrainian SSR was made to increase overnight? Yes, but it also meant that ethnic Russian children suddenly had to start learning Ukrainian language from grade 1.; 9/25/23, 10:12 PM
Candide said...: Need to be very careful about any claims of suppression of ethnic minorities in USSR by Russian majority. Quite often they are advanced by present day radical ethic nationalists.

The truth is, Soviet Communists didn't tolerate any nationalism, including Russian nationalism. The surest way to ruin political career of any aspiring Soviet Communist was to be found associated with any kind of nationalist movement.; 9/25/23, 10:17 PM
Candide said...: Gahrie said...

"And the USSR was never at war with the U.S....right?"

Are you serious?

There never was a Declaration of War between US and USSR.

There were proxy wars in Vietnam and Afghanistan, but that does not amount to real direct military conflict. In fact, both sides went to greatest lengths to avoid direct military engagements.; 9/25/23, 10:51 PM
Narr said...: The Soviet Communists didn't tolerate any nationalism, but they didn't tolerate any nationalisms differently.

A Soviet-era joke:

Q. What do you call a person who speaks Yiddish, Polish, and Russian?

A rootless cosmopolitan.

Q. What do you call someone who speaks Estonian and Russian?

A bourgeois nationalist.

Q. What do you call someone who speaks only Russian?

A good internationalist.

Stalin targeted different nationalities as the international situation changed. Leaving aside his own prejudices (he hated Poles, for instance) in the 20s it was Poles and others of the Western subject peoples, in the 30s he was becoming paranoid about Japanese and Koreans in the Far East, and Russian Germans were always suspect. (If my memory of Snyder and Sebag-Montefiore serves.)

As to the 90% Russian Crimea in 1954, that was after the deportations of almost 250k mostly Muslim Tatars (as well as Greeks, Armenians, Bulgarians, and Germans) that took place after the Soviet reconquest in 1944, largely carried out with US Lend-Lease vehicles.

In Soviet eyes, to have survived under Nazi occupation made you suspect, and if you weren't an approved ethnicity, so much the worse for you.

The greatest testimony to the failure of Communism--everywhere--is that national chauvinisms thrived and all the important divisions there now are ethnic at heart.; 9/26/23, 10:12 AM
Rusty said...: Blogger Candide said...
Narr said,

"Once the Reds won the civil war and lost the one against the Poles, they started cooperating secretly with the German military to test and develop tactics and weapons deep inside the USSR, in a program that lasted until the early 30s and was terminated by the Germans IIRC."

"I think this came to an end about time Nazis came to power in Germany. It certainly was going on in the 1920-s, when Weimar Germany was not considered a threat.

One result of it was that invading German troops often knew Russian terrain better than Soviet troops, because they practiced war games there for a long time and were taking careful notes."
German armaments were being shipped back to Germany through Poland as late as 1939.; 9/26/23, 2:55 PM
Rusty said...: Candide said...
"Gahrie said...

Besides...what did the NAZIs do that was directed at the United States?

Besides declaring war on the US December 8, 1941?"
But they didn't attack us, did they? That was the Japanese. But because Roosevelt had an agreement with Britain we immediately sent our men and materiel Britain. And then the United States Invaded French Algeria. A country we weren't at war with.
Roosevelt lied to McArther to convince him to leave the Phillipines and go to Austrailia. There were no US troops waiting for him in Austrailia.; 9/26/23, 3:03 PM
Narr said...: Not sure about the "Germans had better maps" claim. The Germans had been all over most of the Tsar's westernmost dominions in 1917-1919, and it would be a great espionage coup--for which the Germans have never been noted--for their officers and experts to have done any mapping while under the Soviet noses during the period of clandestine cooperation.

It's far more probable that if German maps were better, it was because they had spent many months doing high-altitude photorecon flights over Soviet airspace before the invasion in 1941, and the Soviets themselves issued erroneous maps to mislead possible saboteurs and invaders.; 9/26/23, 5:23 PM
Narr said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; 9/26/23, 5:24 PM