Said Jonathan Van Ness, quoted in "'Scared' Jonathan Van Ness bursts into tears during debate with Dax Shepard defending trans rights" (NY Post). The "debate" is a long conversation on a Shepard's podcast.
"I was really bullied for my gender expression as a little kid. And there’s a lot of little kids who aren’t going to go be Olympic gold medalist. They don’t want to f–king go to the Olympics. They’re not gonna play —90 to 99% of kids who want to play sports aren’t trying to go to the Olympics, right?"
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74 comments:
There’s club teams?
I’m not opposed to trans rights I’m opposed to people monkeying with child brains and convincing them they’re something they are not, then having the judicial system take those children away from their families and giving them to the people who want to fuck them…
You have a mental illness, seek help. And, when you push this transgender bullshit on children, when you advocate for the sexual mutilation of children. You are a sick pedophile pig. You and your ilk are vile and evil.
fictitious women’s fairness in sports
WHY do we EVEN Have "women"'s sports then?? WELL??? WHY
If ANY BODY can say that they are a woman.. WHAT does being a woman MEAN?
Oh, that's right: being a woman means SAYING that You are a woman
The League of Legends Championship Series is under fire after uploading a video promoting its Game Changers program, which is intended to "open more opportunities for women" in e-sports.
Five of the six featured players are male.
Even trying to understand the jargon used in conversations over these issues is exhausting, and that's before you try to engage with the substance such as it is.
Jonathan Van Ness totally lost me at “fictitious fairness.” Really, Althouse, are you and other feminists actually going to support young biological females? If not, then you need a new name to describe yourselves.
This BS didn’t exist 20 years ago. Heck, not even 10 years ago.
The only reason it is happening now is that ObamaCare will pay for it. And Medicaid in some states. A small group of mentally ill people can now realize their sick fantasies. Social media supercharged this and it spread.
Bullied? At one inner city school I taught in I had a student I'll call Frank in a nod to Lady Chablis from Mid Night in the Garden of Good and Evil. "Frank" was a 15 year old transvestite who wore sarongs, kimonos, or whatever he damn well pleased on a daily basis - sometime changing his entire look twice a day. AND, he had a posse of "Frank's Bitches" (girls) who followed and worshipped him and the ground his slippers walked on. They did his hair, his nails and constantly applied and reapplied his make up. They competed in a hierarchy to do look for the day. Most importantly his "Bitches" protected him from being bullied In the halls. No black male but NO black male wanted to take on any random half dozen of them in the hallways . They were protective and instantly vicious in protecting him. He was a nice kid and he definitely knew who he was and where he was going. A very talented drag queen at 15. This took place in appx 2005.
As shown in the preceding post, EVERY boy wanted to be Illya Kuryakin.
Some trends from TV can be destructive. But they knew that back then.
Make believe, accentuate MAKE.
"I won't grow up, I don't wanna go to school."
Democrat governance is exciting.
Another old lawyer @ 6:32: What you said. Plus I’m fed up with the cheap weeping over all the precious feelings. We’re done here, okay?
Crybullying has an expiration date, and we may be reaching it. It's not a good look, and doubling down on it is something I would advise these folks to avoid.
They're not listening to me, though. Wait until the rest of the women get good and tired of it, including the feminists. Wait until the accounts of locker room/bathroom transgressions reach critical mass. Everyone has a camera.
God help the folks like Jonathan Van Ness. These athletes and their Moms are usually type A folks, and they get things done. A large portion of the transgender "victims" can barely clean their rooms, and their wishes will be used and abused by the lowest forms of humanity posing as women to satisfy their twisted goals all over this land. Once more, everyone has a camera.
Can you see what I see?
No. I was so uncoordinated and shy as a child that P.E. class was a nightmare. A terror. My good friend was excellent at sports, but she spent the whole class trying to keep the bruises where her father hit her from showing. Everyone has a painful story. Childhood is fraught.
None of that is relevant to the topic of professional-level women's sports.
It's not the Olympics that is the problem, it is college scholarships. Trans athletes are knocking biological women out opportunities to participate in regional events and championships, like state level track meets and swimming events.
Those are the events that college scouts go to and look best on college applications.
They’re not gonna play —90 to 99% of kids who want to play sports aren’t trying to go to the Olympics, right?"
Arguing from the extremes. A sure tell the person is losing the debate. IF 1% is just too small number of those affected, than the children trans illusion is an even smaller portion. By their admission, too small to matter.
The real straw man is claiming this is only about the child's interest. WRONG! The conflict is about Government attempting to supersede parental authority.
This has nothing to do with people accepting the child. !00%, the debate is about accepting the desires of the PARENTS. Parents and only parents have the wherewithal to parent their children.
The law of gravity is brutal and absolute. The laws of biology are brutal and absolute. You need food, you need air, and you need sleep or you will die. Many animals will kill you if you don't kill them first.
Sex and reproduction allow failed human natural experiments to continue for several decades, but they are dead ends indeed. Females can reproduce from around ~14 to ~45, and then then it's over. Reckless males often fail to find a willing female to mate, and routinely die from crimes, stunts, combat, or manual labor when quite young.
Hurt feelings of kids? Yep, we've all been there. Children are primal brutes and call it as they see it. Adults are the ones who get wrapped up in utopian ideologies/religions and sometimes protect feeling at the expense of serious needs.
Life is imperfect, organic, naturalistic, and full of gray areas. That's what functional adults learn and live by.
Seek help and straighten up.
"Somebody (always unnamed) was mean or rude to ME!!! Let's destroy our culture because of it!!" That's really the argument. Leftists are all mentally and emotionally disturbed. Stop listening to them. Period.
Typical straw man argument.
Kids are not being denied the right to participate in sports.
They are being denied the right to participate on the (gender affirming)girl’s team.
Even trying to understand the jargon used in conversations over these issues is exhausting, and that's before you try to engage with the substance such as it is.
That's SOP. Who ever defines the language, defines the debate. That's the 'Why' concerning the jargon. If one side gets all involved in speaking fake language, the core of the debate is lost.
Trans children is not the debate. The debate is Government/experts stripping parents of their power to parent.
one tenth of one percent are gender dysphoric, a mental disorder.
The rest are a social construct of cosplaying because mama wasn't one of the cool kids growing up. It is criminal.
Maybe he could explain the 1000% increase in trans kids IN THE US ONLY.
Go ahead. Poke us with another stick. Make us buzz around again.
Somehow "mentally ill person can't keep it together" isn't the scoop some might think it to be.
I remember as a young kid playing sports thinking it was unfair that the girls couldn’t ever play on the “skins” team during scrimmages. Later I thought it was unfair that young woman were not made to play “skins” team during scrimmages. Things change as you grow up.
One thing that never really changed, as being generally shorter as a male, I was never picked first to be on either scrimmage team. It was so unfair. I got over it. I’m an engineer now, and love designing cars and airplanes that are to cramped for tall people. Ok, just kidding about the enjoyment.
fictitious women’s fairness in sports.
So we should support boys who want to be girls when they are young, but when they hit their college years those same boys become "fictitous women?"
I wish that people were as passionate about little kids being able to be included
Where is the "bullshit" tag?
Van Ness is skipping over a lot of ground with the "included" line.
The Trans issue requires other people to participate in someone's delusion, keeps medical information from parents, insists that children can authorize life-changing medical treatments and overturns the man/woman binary that was uncontroversial for thousands of years.
I don't care that Van Ness is a man who likes to dress in an unconventional fashion. I prefer it. In the podcast, Van Ness sounds very disturbed. His sartorial choices allow people to ascertain his dysfunction without needing to listen to the podcast.
I am always amazed at the people with most skin in the gay rights game and how they support the transvestite movement.
The movement is specifically about eliminating gays and lesbians and these folks are just fine with it.
They want laws and policies that gay men MUST date "men" with vaginas and lesbians MUST date "women" with penises.
I guess calling for death to all gays and lesbians might be worse. But not much. And not much different
John Henry
I’m not aware of sports participation being an issue for “little kids.” So I think this argument is BS. Little kids are playing youth sports co-ed (such as t-ball). Teenagers are a different story, but nobody is denying the little kids. I think that this whole thing is BS but that’s another story.
I have to tell you I’m very tired
I thought the preferred bug-eyed leftie formulation for this is “exhausted”.
- Krumhorn
Good God, is there no end to the ability of some people to trumpet their narcissism? "This is important to me and this is important to me and therefore we all have to do what I say about each of them!"
Then again, I guess trumpeting is kind of the point of narcissism... I withdraw my objection. I also decline to do what this narcissist thinks we should all do.
Truly, it must be so miserable to go through life not understanding why your vision of your own centrality hasn't been taken up by everyone around you. I am not being snarky - I'm talking about a psychological disorder that must cause its sufferers bewilderment and pain. And as we've all heard by now, it's a common comorbidity with gender dysphoria, so I second the urging of all those here who have advised this person to get help.
"Drag queen" or "transsexual"?
Until very recently, drag queens were most explicitly NOT transexuals. They did NOT claim to be women nor did they live as women off stage. Look up RuPaul for one famous example. His famous Drag Race show did not even permit transexuals until the last year or two. It is kind of an oxymoron for someone claiming that he "is" a woman to impersonate a woman.
They were/are actors, often but not always, gay putting on a performance. They never claimed to be anything they are not.
John Henry
Shepard, however, used conservative talking points
This line jumped out at me, since Van Ness' points were not called democratic talking points.
Are we supposed to think differently about an argument because of it?
Is he/she a hookah smoking caterpillar?
Little kids don't need to be sexualized. Just let them be kids.
Little kids are all over the place... a choo choo train, a ballerina, a unicorn - a boy, a girl.
Just let them be kids.
The idea that we all must conform to this hot garbage is hot garbage.
Little kids are not "They/them" they are individuals. (they/them is improper grammar)
Most of this is political victim BS. I know from first hand experience, too.
Most of this is a political act to take children and insist they are part of the collective. Part of the hive. Part of the victim-group. "They/Them" is collectivist.
Hey leftists - leave them kids alone.
I just remember playing a lot of neighborhood sports when I was a kid. If I could borrow a mitt I'd play baseball, But mostly softball. We'd use some company's lawn in the industrial park. Touch football was only touch where you didn't hit in the face. Otherwise it was open warfare. Some of us got broken bones. We'd play ice hockey on the frozen ponds where the interstate construction dug holes for ramps. Towels and magazines stuffed in our sweatpants. When there wasn't enough kids to play baseball we'd play 500 in the street.
Every photo I have seen of Jonathan Van Mess screams severe mental illness, why do we pretend otherwise? Who benefits from this collective delusion?
I was the youngest, smallest boy in my high school when I entered as a sophomore. At 5'2" was a killer both in sports and for the attention of the young ladies - /sarc. But at least I was slow and weak making me a triple threat. (My brother was, literally a foot taller and athletic.... sigh). I was also a late bloomer, reaching my full height at about age 20. BFD, t certainly does not define me as an adult. I suspect JVN had issues far beyond not being picked to play sports. Must we accept, nay celebrate, them all the ssues of all the kids?
One would be tempted to tell him (yes, him) to "grow a pair". But then he'd likely have them snipped off.
I keed, I keed... I think.
They choose to be an outlier and then whine because they are not included. Gee, who knew this might be the result of their choices?
He was bullied and now he's looking to bully others. And like a lot of guys whose gender expression skews theatrically feminine, he really doesn't seem to like women.
So why can't the kids join their biological team?
“I was bullied therefore I should be allowed to beat up girls” is like the worst argument these loony transactivists could make and yet it persists. No you can’t be on the girls team! Get over it. I’m tired of these assholes and their sob stories.
Gay man whose identity is based on colonizing aspects of womanhood completely indifferent to the rights and identities of actual women. Film at 11.
Yeah, he claims women's sports claims are fictitious because he doesn't know what it's like to be a woman.
JAORE
The advantage of living in a neighborhood with a limited amount of kids is that everyody got a chance to play. I dind't play much sports in school other than gym class.
When they mention 'kids' it smacks of grooming.
X Video: How a child chooses their gender. · Sep 15
"If the presence of penis, testicles, breasts does not determine sex/gender, why does surgical removal of these normal organs affirm sex/gender?"
This must be the response every time, in every place.
"fictitious women’s fairness in sports"
That's prog inclusion for you.
"I was really bullied for my gender expression as a little kid"
That's so terrible the world must change to suit your feelings.
The girls that are forced to play against boys are the victims
Otherwise, abolish girls' sports.
Being told "no" is now conflated with bullying and violence. I'm entirely sympathetic to arguments for physical safety, but allowing boys to compete with girls is not safe for the girls! Why are girls invisible again?
Gender is sex-correlated attributes (e.g. sexual orientation): masculine and feminine. Sex is genetic: male and female. Most people... persons in the transgender spectrum are homosexual. Trans/sim (e.g. pseudo vagina) is a progressive class of trans/social (e.g. cross-dressing). Transsexuals are few and far between. Indulging political congruence ("=") has forward-looking consequences and collateral damage.
In my experience coaching 3-4 youth-sports teams per year for around 10 years, there are a very few little boys (maybe 1 every 2-3 years) who want to go over to the girl's team. Invariably, they are boys who don't really like the sport but whose parents are forcing them to play.
There are also a few girls who want to play on the boy's team. They, invariably, are fanatics about the sport, have older brothers who play the sport, and just want more of it.
In baseball their superior self-discipline and focus abilities allow them to play with the boys up until around age 10, and for one truly gifted girl, to age 12, and then the boys are simply MUCH too strong and fast for it to be safe any more.
The one girl I coached who managed to stay in baseball until 12 is now a Division 1 softball player on one of the top 10 teams in the country. It's unfortunate that softball is no longer an Olympic sport, because she would have had a shot at making the team.
And she was in serious danger when she tried to play against with the 13's, (and her parents recognized it and pulled her before the league had to).
Which means that a 13-year-old boy on a girls' team would be a danger to the girls. 13-year-old boys throw and hit the ball much too hard for girls the same age to be safe playing hardball with them.
Trans females are always free to compete in the mens' sections- they aren't being excluded for fuck's sake.
Well, if he's whining and whimpering, and crying like a baby, he must be right.
Simulated gender destroys a persons ability to have a sexual relationship with a person of the opposite sex, and reproductive viability.
That's prog inclusion for you.
Pulse club and the cisgenders (i.e. trans/homosexual) social distancing from a trans/bisexual who just wanted to be included.
And, of course, exploiting the technical term of art, fetus, to socially distance themselves from their wicked solution (human rites). #HateLovesAbortion
It's almost funny how comprehensively the desires (and safety!) of young women--actual women--is ignored in these discussions. It's true the focus on elite athletes misses the larger populations in question, but we should be sophisticated enough to understand synecdoche and apply the problems and contradictions that are impossible to miss in the case of transgender athletes to the transgender issue writ large.
What would Van Ness say to young women who are "scared" to share their personal spaces (bathrooms, locker rooms, etc) with trans people? Oh, get over it you bigots--something like that? How about parents who are "scared" that social contagion and activist adults (teachers, social workers) will push an unwanted ideology onto their children and cause them mental and physical harm?
Anyway thanks again Nice People (primarily socially liberal women) for making sure the tiny minority of weirdoes, neurotics, and mentally ill get their way and are catered to at the expense of everyone else. I hope your children, some of whom you're willingly mutilating, will forgive you eventually.
Ah the horror of it all. In real life there's always a kid who's picked last when choosing up teams to play. I grew up to be 6' 5" tall and 200 pounds in college. But I was pretty much worthless in right field when playing baseball, I was living proof that white men can't jump--so wasn't much use on a basketball court. I could play tennis at a mediocre level which never improved over twenty years or so. While I didn't play, I might have been okay as high school offensive lineman (albeit very slow of foot). So when it came time to choose teams I was always picked last.
I finally found a sport where I could make the junior varsity team in college. The sport was crew, and I was an okay number 5 oar. But it's telling that the sport in which I could have some success involved sitting down and having to learn just one motion. And don't ask about my golf game later in life.
There are innate differences in athletic ability among kids and lots of us are on the left hand side of the bell curve where athletics are concerned. And that means some of us are going to be crying when it comes time to choose up teams. Get over it. That's life.
I'm tempted to go and laugh at the creature's delicious tears, but I'm resisting. Manfully.
That's prog inclusion for you.
"Respect for Marriage Act" to select for couples and couplets. Civil unions for all consenting adults. Younger in socially forward-looking jurisdictions. #NoJudgment #NoLabels
I know ann always makes a lot of money in her tip jar off this. It's the only place you fellas can scratch yourselves, tell your tall tales, and find a place to .... belong.
Tell them the truth, annie. Tell them what losers they are. Today and tomorrow. Even a gal like yourself can be honest with the big boys today. Tell them they're a lost cause already? Biologically, they are like smokers. Their best days behind them.
Oddly, on a number of topics, you are likely correct. But on this one, the bug-eyed lefties are certainly on the wrong side of history. No question about it, and you will be very harshly judged along the lines of Mengele. And by harsh, I mean that there will still be statues of Lee, Columbus, Jefferson, and Jackson left standing when any statue of a leftie groomer, Marx, or Lenin will have been long since smeltered into barbed wire and fence posts.
- Krumhorn
They’re not gonna play —90 to 99% of kids who want to play sports aren’t trying to go to the Olympics, right?
As iowan2 said, arguing from the extremes. BUT, here it's considered acceptable?
Yet, when people talk about trans wanting personal rights but only occupying <1% of the population - "That ain't right!"?
“ When Van Ness was younger, he was sexually abused by an older boy at church, which laid the foundation for self-destructive behaviors.[6] In his early teens, he used online chat to socialize with, and sometimes meet, older men for sex.”
This man is seriously damaged. He should not be the voice for young kid’s sexuality, he is a victim that never overcame his abuse. He is the living embodiment of Stockholm syndrome. Society should not be taking advice from mentally ill people.
"Somebody (always unnamed) was mean or rude to ME!!!
Yep, Patrick Henry was right!
Always of note; anonymous tormentors from years past, vague or utterly missing details and - importantly - always on video so everyone can see and experience their angst.
As you implied "Change the world so I feel comfy!", but that overlooks "Change the world 'cause I just wanna see if I can get you to."
@Lem the misspeller: 9/26/23, 9:26 AM - excellent find.
Then, the duo clashed over whether The New York Times should be considered a left-leaning newspaper. …. Shepard, however, used conservative talking points
So reality is a conservative talking point?
Big Mike said...
“Jonathan Van Ness totally lost me at “fictitious fairness.” Really, Althouse, are you and other feminists actually going to support young biological females? If not, then you need a new name to describe yourselves.”
TERFs is available for those who want to support young biological females. Otherwise, people like JVN are just Feminists by the current standards. It’s not the first time a political term has been co-opted.
If there was an Olympic competition for whining, this creature would be in the running.
My peers learned to pick me early for football, and last for basketball, if we couldn't avoid it entirely. Baseball was such a rarity that only the guys on church teams got any practice (and I found it pretty boring).
In my day, soccer was something exotic that prep schools might play, and rugby was a distant rumor, but it was a school-recognized thing when my son played his single year of it in the early 2000s.
At least wait until they can legally consent to permanently alter and destroy the trajectory of their sexual and social life.
I haven't heard anyone say that any kid shouldn't be able to participate on a team. The point is that only actual females should be allowed to participate on actual-females-only teams.
I was bullied because of my last name. It's nothing special, some kids get bullied. Reasons: optional, because these are little children.
I was bullied because of my last name. It's nothing special, some kids get bullied. Reasons: optional, because these are little children.
An unstable, bulimic, dishonest man who makes his own colleagues uncomfortable until they're bullied into silence. Male trans athletes have in fact crashed several female Olympic hopefuls' dreams. What sane parent would let this mentally unstable man influence their children? The episode where five adult men helped a disturbed young girl cut off her breasts is something all of them will live with for the rest of their lives. Not one was courageous to object.
"Blogger Dave Begley said...
This BS didn’t exist 20 years ago. Heck, not even 10 years ago.
The only reason it is happening now is that ObamaCare will pay for it."
No. The reason this is happening now is because gay marriage is no longer a Progressive brickbat.
"The rest are a social construct of cosplaying because mama wasn't one of the cool kids growing up. It is criminal."
Yup. Exactly. Munchausen Syndrome by Proxy. As mentioned before, it's always the hyper-flamboyant little drag queen boy who gets paraded around for the attention of his mother. No one parades around their drag king daughter with great fanfare. No one.
One of my wife's teenage grandnieces has decided she's a boy. I don't think it has reached the drugs and scalpels stage, and in all honesty if she and her mom (dad is estranged) go that route I'll avoid further contact (not that we are close now).
I get it - kids don't like being bullied for dressing and acting as the opposite sex. But, using that as an excuse to use women's bathrooms and locker rooms - places where many girls have trouble being undressed/vulnerable around other girls - is not the answer.
The answer is treating occasions of bullying seriously - whether it is a straight, gay, or cross-dressing kid. But, that would require investigation of complaints, and disciplining the offenders severely enough that they stop. Not just learn to do it behind the grown-ups backs.
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