Link to article. Excerpt:
The indictment begins with a blunt assessment of Trump’s post-election efforts: “Despite having lost, the defendant was determined to remain in power.” It adds that, for more than two months after the election, he “spread lies” about voter fraud. “These claims were false, and the defendant knew they were false,” the indictment says.
ADDED: I have a feeling most people aren't going to understand that this is something new! Just in the last few minutes, I've heard: "I’ve officially lost track of all his indictments" and "I don’t know how that’s different from the old news."
The NYT seems to recognize this problem. It's also got this on the front page:
Posts
67 comments:
It’s showtime, baby! How’s everybody feeling? What’s everybody drinking tonite?
I honestly think that it is unseemly, unlawyerly, inappropriate, and possibly counterproductive to openly root for the indictment of a federal criminal defendant. Generally, a bad idea. In that regard, all I can say for myself is that Donald Trump is the guy who as President suggested that journalists reporting leaked governmental information could be made “prison brides” under his administration. He mocked people who asserted their Fifth Amendment rights as “mafia” before he asserted those rights for himself countless times as a civil and criminal defendant himself. And who made a part-time career out of complaining about every detail in the FBI investigation of the Clinton server; details which will now read very much like US v Trump Case No. __ _____.
Trump is the exception to the rule. And not just for his own hypocrisy; it’s also exceptional insofar as trump indictments appear to only energize and embolden his political supporters. All of these circumstances surrounding Trump are nothing short of perverse. I hope and expect that Trump – now presumed innocent – will be proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt after Trump has had every opportunity to defend himself.
Harry Littman on MSNBC tonight made some serious points:
1. This could be the most important prosecution in the history of the Justice Department.
2. This could present evidence of the most treacherous activity by any President in history.
3. The was one of the more significant assaults on the Constitutional Rule of Law save for the Civil War, and clearly the most significant threat to the peaceful transition of power in 200 years.
4. And now, all of that is occurring in another Presidential election cycle, with the future of the nation at stake.
Reeks of prosecutorial desperation.
The assertion that there was no voter fraud is in of itself a fraud. The Democrats could have simply not challenge an honest recount in the suspect districts and precincts but they haven't and they can never give an honest answer of why they are so adamant about stopping legitimate reviews. Even J6 was a fraud perpetrated by the Democrats. An honest inquiry would result of exposing the FBI in encouraging the demonstrators and the actions of Nancy Pelosi and the DC Mayor and then there is the killing of an unarmed and non violent demonstrator. The Democrats being the Communists they are are holding political show trials. So unless Trump gets convicted of bribery which what Biden did, even if convicted he will be nominated and probably elected. Only a moron or someone on the grift or hoping to be on the grift would vote for Biden and Democrats.
So, if I wrote a letter to my representative and demanded that he file an objection to, let's say, Wisconsin's electoral slate from 2020, am I guilty of a crime of trying to overturn the election? If I wrote a letter to Mike Pence and demanded he do what Trump demanded Pence do, is that a crime? Really?
This is the most ridiculous of the indictments to date, and they have all been ridiculous on their face. Trump was demanding that Congress not accept the electoral slates in the states that he claimed the vote was fraudulent- that definitely isn't a crime, or if it is, then Al Gore, John Kerry, and Hillary Clinton were guilty of the same crimes in 2000, 2004, and 2016 respectively. However, doing so is simply not a crime, full stop. Even if I grant to the Trump was lying about the fraud in those states (I don't, I fully believe there was massive fraud), even that isn't a crime. It is isn't a crime to lie in public any more than it is a crime to simply state something that isn't a fact, at least it wasn't in the old United States of America. However, we apparently now live in Soviet Amerika. I weep for the future Americans- we have utterly failed them, and we have failed our forefathers. We have become despicable.
At this point he only needs another indictment or two for a free footlong sub!
Seriously though, this is rapidly losing any credibility which remained. Losing candidates claiming that the election was rigged isn't new, nor is it a crime. The only thing that this indictment will do is solidify Trump's support among the GOP, while making independents question why they should continue to support the Biden administration.
Americans need to know if their President is a crook.
President Biden, that is.
This indictment should go a long way toward convincing on-the-fence American citizens that they no longer live in a free country.
It is absolutely new, the claims that I'm hearing in the last few days that "he knew the claims were false". So far I haven't heard anything the least bit convincing on the topic. Only things like they were saying about Tucker Carlson, "He said that he thought there was election fraud, and he said Sidney Powell was wrong, so you see he contradicted himself!" As if someone who thinks there were problems with the election has to believe every single story.
The whole J6 Commission shows AFAIK never brought anyone who said that they heard from Donald Trump that he knew there were really no problems with the election. They surely would have if they had it.
So Trump is going to go to prison for seeking redress in the courts and the legislature, per the Constitution, err, I mean questioning the squeaky clean and immaculate election of Joe Biden. A DC jury pool will toss him in jail for thinking about jaywalking, if given the chance. All Biden's DoJ had to do was give them the chance, and here it is. Very handy that there is no defense lawyer allowed in an indictment, and with a DC jury, and indictment is like winning the Democratic primary, it's the actual final contest.
Also he is going to go to jail for exercising his First Amendment rights.
Who among us wasn't rooting for Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid.
If what Trump did to seek a hearing on irregularities in the election was criminal, why did they pass the Electoral Count Act? It seems to me that his tactics were based on things that came out of the SCOTUS during Bush v Gore.
This will take Devon Archer off of page 17.
The indictments almost guarantee he will get the nomination, as Republican primary voters try to get revenge for what they see as obviously political indictments. Then he will lose in the general, as lots of respectable voters just can't vote for him. I doubt the prosecutors did this 3-dimensional chess game, but they'll get a result they like no matter what the final disposition of the cases is.
Let me be the first to congratulate the new President of the United States, Donald Trump, on his victory in 2024.
Corrupt, political DOJ does exactly the wrong thing for base political motives. Great job, Merrick.
If they are saying that Trump made false claims, doesn't that open up truth as a defense? Or is it going to be like impeachment, where Trump will only be allowed to use approved defenses? That's my bet. A show trial can never be allowed to get too interesting.
Thought crimes, then? Is that it?
“Despite having lost, the defendant was determined to remain in power.”
Their mind readers know that Trump said what he did because he was determined to remain in power, not because he legitimately thought that some sketchy stuff had happened in the elections. And yet, their ESP fails them when they are looking at Biden's calls with Hunter's business associates. Must have just been to chat about the weather, what else could it have been?
Our legal system is a joke. I used to believe that, even if mistakes were sometimes made, overall, people were honestly trying to do their best and had justice as their goal. I no longer believe that and I feel stupid for ever thinking it.
We watched the voter fraud unfold in real time in 2020. AZ, WI, MI, PA, and GA. Trump with massive leads in four of those five states, Chinese stock market tanking, and then the counting stopped. Who made that coordinated call? Then the leads were whittled away by COVID fueled absentee ballot stuffing and harvesting.
You could see it coming as voting laws were changed on the fly. Even illegal broad day absentee ballot harvesting in Madison, WI.
Their behavior and these indictments should tell you Trump beat them in 2016 (which was a surprise) and again in 2020. In 2024 they know he can beat them again, perhaps not having the same COVID fueled absentee scam running, and Trump promoting the ballot harvesting game, they are desperate not only to stop Trump, but the electoral plurality of the American population that elected him twice.
The cowardly, corrupt courts failed us. The Supreme Court refusing to hear Texas vs. PA failed us.
I like Ron DeSantis. But if his only path to the nomination are deep state Trump indictments, then he's no better than Paul Ryan and Senator Pierre Delecto.
Trump or bust baby! 2024 is going to be a shit show.
It's like Season Six of a series where the writers say "Why not introduce an Evil Twin plotline"; old, stale, stupid.
ADDED: I have a feeling most people aren't going to understand that this is something new! Just in the last few minutes, I've heard: "I’ve officially lost track of all his indictments" and "I don’t know how that’s different from the old news."
"I love the poorly educated."
The DC jury won't be "most people." They may -- probably will -- be "most people" to start with. But after a three-week presentation by the prosecution, they will know plenty about this case.
By the time that they are asked to decide their respective cases, the juries in all of these cases will know more about "their" cases than the average editorial page editor at the average midwestern newspaper.
Another day ending in "y."
I feel a strange sense of acceptance living through the end of the great American experiment.
I feel bad for my Generation Z kids. But their ignorance fueled by the indoctrination of the liberal education establishment blinds them to the totalitarian Sunami that awaits their future.
Trump or bust.
Devon Archer testifies against Hunter Biden and his daddy, therefore there is a new indictment against Donald Trump. Also, the sun rises in the east.
Yawn.
I just heard Hack Smith’s remarks. He went on about the brave police who defended the Capitol. But the indictment isn’t about the riot. It’s about Trump’s words. Andy McCarthy called it demagogic. Professor Turley noted that Trump’s speech is protected under the First Amendment. This is Big Brother’s indictment for misinformation.
One of the two lawyers noted a recent SCOTUS case that the US has to be defrauded out of goods, money or services.
Motion to Dismiss must be granted.
This is one sorry fucking day in the history of the United States. Criminally charged for speech!
At a certain point, a point long past, this has become a mechanism to discredit our system of justice. The Romans used to do this sort of thing, and its successes were inconsistent. Eventually, you end up with proscriptions.
This is law fare. It's petty. It's ugly.
Unfortunately, I also think people are seeing through this shit-storm, and thinking Trump is the guy.
NYT buys ink by the barrel.
"I have a feeling most people aren't going to understand that this is something new!"
That's because it isn't new. Not new-new anyway.
But progs are creating a dilemma: they want to run against Trump, and some legal action will increase sympathy and make that more likely, but they could go too far with their banana-republic persecution. Or has their Trump hatred metastasized to the point where they'd rather try to kill him outright?
Every indictment proves to more people yet that the dems are beyond the pale.
Poor misunderstood President Trump. Make him feel better. Send him money.
Barbindicthim
This is simply getting tiresome. I know it's red meat for the blue side of the political divide. But the multiple indictments, raids, various Democrat prosectors in at least three, may be four states is way overkill. Compare and contrast with the soft gloves treatment accorded Hunter Biden and his sweet, sweet sweatheart plea deal. Even the blind will ultimately see.
Politicians can't lie? That's now a criminal offense? Great. I'm looking forward to putting a lot of people in jail for lying about the COVID lab leak theory and that the vaccine actually prevents getting the virus. Or how about those 51 intelligence experts that claimed Hunter Bidens laptop was Russian disinformation. Wasn't that a lie used to influence the election.
How did he subvert power. He left the White House as planned. That he dared to bitch about the left's obvious cheating.
The Corrupt left would like to place half of America in a gulag. such assholes.
(A) This is banana republic territory. (B) if prosecutors want people to take this seriously, their lead accusation can't be "a politician lied." They have to highlight specific things he did (false electors or whatever -- I can't take this seriously enough to bother reading the indictment). If the story is "DOJ is trying to imprison a politician for telling lies," it just sounds like a joke. "Lies" can be in the indictment, but it shouldn't be the first takeaway.
It's like no one is listening to the news, so someone turns another radio on with the same news, delivered slightly out of synch. As if that will make us listen. Then another. And another. Obsessively. Compulsively. Endlessly, like beans and nuts.
No. One. Is. Listening. And. Every. Indictment. Makes. Trump. Stronger.
Until... What? That's the real question, isn't it? Don't look at me. I don't know either.
No one is buying this bullshit at this point and it’s obvious that the Biden administration, their weaponized government institutions and certainly their operatives with bylines, do NOT give a rip.
1. That NYT headline looks reads like the paper is on Trump’s side: Trump is indicted in order to overturn the (2024) election.
2. CFP carried the story: Jack Smith announced the indictment, and sounds petrified. So I clicked on the exTwitter link. It’s true. Smith is out of breath, maybe because of lack of sleep? He looks unwell.
The way I first read the headline was that Trump had been indicted in an effort to influence the next election. And then I realized that the NYT wouldn't use such a headline.
People will say that we now live in a Banana Republic.
I disagree. If we were a Banana Republic there would be a true resistance of free men willing to fight for their freedom.
But no, we are a nation of Good Germans. A nation of spoiled children. A nation of cowards.
And yes, I'm one of the American Eloi.
Let them lock him away. I won't raise a hand to stop it.
And neither will any of you.
I'd call this indictment thin gruel, but water is more like it.
60 years ago the guys in the Tuesday night bowling league would have been angry enough over this news to start searching their sheds for pitch forks. but those guys 60 years ago were members of "the greatest generation". I belong to a generation of cowards.
The indictment says the VP has a ceremonial role. A few pages later, it says the VP is to resolve objections during the vote counting on January 6.
A ceremonial official doesn’t resolve objections!
August 1, 2023: The world will remember this day.
These indictments are getting progressively more ridiculous. "Ham Sandwich Nation" for presidential candidates. Meanwhile the Biden Crime Family thumbs their noses at us.
"Trump Posts He Will Be Indicted At 5 P.M. "
Is this the first time Trump has ever been right about anything?
Trump isn't gay so he has a good defense against a charge of sedition.
It's "whataboutism."
https://twitter.com/DonaldJTrumpJr/status/1686500091794726912
That headline first seemed to say that Trump was indicted in order to overturn the upcoming election, ie to keep him from being elected. Took me a second, and a realization it was the NYT, that it said he was indicted for his pushing to overturn the last election.
Both can be true simultaneously, I suppose. If Trump wins, could he have his DOJ indict the current prosecutors and Pelosi, et al, for the same crimes he is being indicted for?
That's not a partisan question, I'm really curious how this pattern could continue now that it has started to make political speech a matter of prosecution.
A so-called Republican was on CNN with AC and he couldn’t believe that some people thought the election was stolen. It was legally stolen with the help of Zuck’s $400m and the mail-in ballots. And in at least PA, the Secretary of State illegally changed the election laws.
Zuck is to blame for all of this. Zuck gave us Biden.
There is an ironic double entendre in the headline. Who exactly is pushing to overturn the election results? Tump or the indicters of Trump?
"Trump indicted in push to overturn election."
Ha!
O give it a rest. A politician lying is not an indictable offense.
And I don’t mean to imply that he was or was not speaking the truth. It’s so water under the bridge at this point.
Imagine the moron liberals who are fixed on, but can't keep up with...the Trump indictments.
They're mostly college educated white women. They are in full support and have no clue what's really going on. It's your kid or grandkid's teacher.
What to expect with all the new damning info coming on Biden and his druggy son? Yes, Indict Trump again for some toothless charge. Desperate Dems. Next to be seen on Bravo.
1/6 indictment says Trump told supporters to go "into" the capitol.
Anyone remember that?
This shit sounds like a spouse's version of events in a contentious divorce proceeding.
The irony of the headline. Trump was indicted to overturn an election - the next one in 2024.
I actually read the dumb thing Quack Jack filed and laughed and then donated to President Trump. God save us from these communists.
I understand this ISN’T new. There is no new information.
Read comments through 11:02 PM. Perhaps reason AA let Chuck back is that in posts like this one his is almost the only one going against the grain. Not much point to comments on a controversial topic when it's 1 or 2 vs. dozens. No doubt usual suspects since posted ad homimem screeds against Chuck. Not much point in hosting that stuff either.
Meanwhile, on to Georgia.
walter said...
1/6 indictment says Trump told supporters to go "into" the capitol.
Anyone remember that?
This shit sounds like a spouse's version of events in a contentious divorce proceeding.
8/1/23, 9:36 PM
They spelled EPPS wrong.
This is exactly the way it usually sounds just before the heated words stop and the bullets start flying in other places where they have real insurrections. I suspect the final spark will be when Trump gets convicted, not because he's guilty of anything, but because everyone knows it's been perfectly set up...DC prosecutor, DC judge, DC jury.
I suppose it’s hard to admit you people who voted for Trump and still support him have been idiots. Many cult members need years of deprograming, some never recover.
Wendybar — trump didn’t say that his supporters go “into” the capitol. Hence I really would be shocked if the indictment says so. Can you tell me the paragraph of the indictment that says that?
I suppose it’s hard to admit you people who voted for Trump and still support him have been idiots. Many cult members need years of deprograming, some never recover.
I am certain that you posted the same comment in the next post, this time referencing Joe. Right??
The headline unintentionally indicts the Biden Administration because it is easily read as they charged Trump to interfere with the next election. It’s not often that the NYT applies a truthful headline to a story. Bravo!
That graphic makes it clear what’s going on. It’s a full court press by the Democrats to make sure he doesn’t get on the ballot. Bastards know they can’t win on ideas so they fight dirty.
"I weep for the future Americans-"
I had dinner with my stepmom a couple of weeks ago when she was in town. Lovely woman, who is 93-years-old, in part because she has such an upbeat attitude about life. Which is why it surprised me when she told me very matter-of-factly that's she's glad she won't be around when it all comes crashing down, adding that she feels so bad for the young kids.
People who lived through the Great Depression, WWII and Vietnam understand just how quickly things can go to shit. People born in the last 20-30 years, not so much.
Sigh... it's all so fake and gay.
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