A CNN headline that appears just under a warning banner that says "HAPPENING NOW/Trump arrives for arrest and arraignment. Watch CNN."
It seems that 69% of Republicans believe something that — according to the criminal case — is so obviously wrong that Trump's assertion that he believed it must be a lie.
That's a "tick up" from 63% earlier this year. Do you think the criminal charges will cause the poll number to tick back down or tick up even more? I'm guessing up.
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102 comments:
Yup--the rubes---aka ordinary American citizens not on the coasts--think that if you are a criminal you will likely cheat. Joe is starting to smell a little stinky these days.
Considering the use of the FBI to investigate Trump for a bogus Steele Dossier, because Hillary Clinton didn't want to believe she lost a fair election. This includes the prosecution of Russian firm that purchased (mostly BLM supporting) ads on Facebook, that was used as "proof" that Trump colluded with Russia despite no ties what-so-ever to Russia that was ever proven. And that the FBI never investigated Hillary's campaign for its part in creating a fraud that cost the taxpayers millions in futile investigations.
Yet now it is "deadly serious" that Trump be indicted for claiming the election was stolen?
I'm thinking there is something to the notion the election was stolen. Otherwise, the left wouldn't be acting so guilty.
of COURSE it was legitimate..
Under our legitimate form of totalitarian fascism.. It's who counts the votes that counts.
It's NOT as if we live in a democratic country
Many of them believe it because Trump told them to believe it. They believed his lies - doesn't mean that Trump believed his own lies.
Serious Question
Michelle O'Bama famously said, that the 1st time that she'd been proud of this country, was when her husband was made President..
So, my question for you all is: Are YOU Proud to be an American???
I'm NOT
Even though we all saw with out own lying eyes the decision to suddenly halt voting on election night because it was sleepy time, here's some analysis I did back in November 2020.
Alabama percent for GOP since 2000: 56, 62, 60, 61, 62, 63
Missisippi......................... 58, 59, 56, 55, 58, 61
South Carolina..................... 57, 58, 54, 55, 55, 60
Tennessee.......................... 51, 57, 57, 59, 61, 61
Florida............................ 49, 52, 48, 49, 49, 51
Georgia............................ 55, 58, 52, 53, 50, 49
So Georgia after 11pm on election night decided to buck the regional trend, and the only state to decrease support from 2016.
When I compared IN, OH, PA, MI, WI, MN as a unit, Trump improved in IN, OH, PA and WI (Wisconsin by two points!) but nonetheless lost PA, MI, WI (no meaningful third party, but even so quite an unexpected result.)
In the MidAtlantic, Trump improved (but still lost) his showing in VA, NY, and MD - New York by 6 points.
The only eastern regional exception was New England: Trump lost popularity in ME, NH, CT. Gained slightly in VT, and pretty much stayed the same in MA and RI.
Lond and the short of it, the above is not proof that Trump had the election stolen from him. But these trends, by themselves, are evidence that a reasonable person could come to the conclusion it was.
I also found it extremely interesting at the time then that even if you took the data at face value, that all the votes were legitimate and that everything was above board, the defense was "well Trump screwed up the COVID response and people were punishing him for it." No, based on the data that's abssurd. Trump 2020 was a stronger candidate in most states than Trump 2016 in terms of state vote-share. And NY - one of the epicenters of COVID in early 2020, moved significantly towards Trump, even if he didn't win it.
It stank. And even if I can't point a legal team to exacty what technicality the smell is coming from, I could tell you that something was rotten.
The people running this crap show don't care, they are committed to destroy trump, and his base. It is the only way they can save the criminal enterprise that is the Uni party.
polls, public interest in election security, etc are meaningless at this point.
They have used violence, intimidation, and brute force to get what they want.
The only way forward for them is more of the same.
Up.
The timeline and clownish government/media collusion to shield Biden have helped to cast Democrats as even more batshit/Devil may care than many suspected.
I guess 70% of Americans didn't get the message from the experts. Biden won and believing otherwise is Wrongthink. Big Brother Hack Smith needs to indict all of these people.
Come and get me, copper!
They think that we are all "mind numbed robots" who only believe it because Trump said it, or Rush Limbaugh before that, when in fact, Trump and Rush are just tuned into the base. If you accept long established conservative priors, you don't need to be given your opinions, you can arrive at them on your own, and they will line up with Trump, most of the time..
The Left doth protest too much. If they really believed the election was kosher they wouldn't pursue Trump with such virulence.
People tend to believe things are being hidden when the powers that be act like they are hiding something. People also tend to be believe they are being lied to when the powers that be are caught lying to them. Both of these things are happening. A lot.
The fact of the matter is vote-by-mail, except in limited special cases, is well established as being ripe for vote fraud and a sign that an election is not fair. This was once a non-partisan position that was accepted by the entire political spectrum. Now we are supposed to accept that mass vote-by-mail, often implemented illegally, was perfectly fine and there is nothing to see here.
Of course, the election was illegitimate. It was, by definition, illegitimate. Who actually won is not even relevant to that fact.
Let's see. Was Joe Biden's election legitimate?
When in any previous election have we seen unprecedented coordination between the government and tech billionaires to restrict free speech?
When in any election in the United States did we ever see the vote counters boarding up the windows so the voters couldn't see what was going on inside the counting room?
When did any election in the United States result in the barbed-wire fencing of Washington DC to keep Americans away from the inauguration of a President?
When did Washington, DC protests (such as those led by many-times-arrested, but never prosecuted, Jane Fonda) ever result in 20 year sentences for such things as "parading."
When was parading outlawed? I missed that vote. Do you remember when they outlawed protesting?
When in jury trials did we start allowing the opponents financial donors to sit on juries?
When in criminal proceedings against a political opponent did we start allowing judges who worked in the law firms of the children of the President to sit in judgement of our candidates?
Well, now, I don't know if Joe Biden's election was illegitimate.
But if it was, then I'd probably see all these things happening. Lo and behold, they are.
My lying eyes.
You will know Satan, by his deeds.
The Democrats are proving this is true by their insane efforts to keep anyone from discussing it. The 2016 Democrat efforts to block Trump's election are, of course, long forgotten.
Its obvious there was election "fraud". I put "fraud" in quotes becasue there were all kinds of ways to rig an election, and if you say "election fraud" people immediately think the Democrats were making up fake ballots or changing number in the voting machines.
And its more than that. Its not looking at possible invalid votes from D parts of a state. Its not checking for valid singatures, names and addresses from D parts of the state. Or making sure the ballot came from a live person who was eligible to vote.Its doing no oversight, so if voting clerk X wants to put D ballots in twice they can do it. Its having no audit trail. Its wiping the voting machines so no one can trace the inputs. Or trace back who was accessing the machine and when.
Its making "mistakes" in tabulating that all go one way. Its "Finding" boxes of ballots after you know how many votes you need to win. Go look at how Mariposa Board of Electors (sic) acted.
We need to understand that Arz, nev, Mich, Penn, and GA were very close. ONly a small amount of "fraud" was needed to win the election for Biden.
Unfortunately, its impossible to have an intelligent discussion. The Left just shouts "There was no fraud" and the Right is too stupid to make sensible arguments.
It will tick up. JB getting 81M legit votes is about as likely as my 70 year old sister getting 300 bowling - possible but extremely unlikely statistically. Make voting fraud easy and you will see more of it. Can we prove how/where/when fraud happened? No.
It's kind of like if there's a website that has the answers for an exam available. It's cheating to look at it. Then 45% of the 1000 students who take it get an A on the exam where statistics /history predicted only 30% would get As. Can I "prove" by clear and convincing evidence that there was significant cheating? No, too difficult. Do I believe cheating most likely happened. Yes.
There was so much collusion to defeat DT (HB laptop, dossier, news suppression, etc.) that it is hard to believe that when it came to voting the Dems decided to play it 100% on the level.
If Biden really did get 81 million votes, why are they so worried about Trump?
Remember kids; “Once you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, no matter how improbable, must be the truth.” - Arthur Conan Doyle
The charge says the election was fair so Trump now has standing to bring up every example of fraud that somebody has compiled for it, excellent campaign material.
I definitely think that there is no one involved in this stuff that I trust. Don't expect me to believe that it is known that the election had no fraud. Whichever part you played in building that statement, I don't trust you. You are all liars.
These days, there is no way to even try to check these things without getting destroyed. Conclusion: If the election had no fraud it's because people left money on the table.
I'd be interested in how Democrats polled in 2016, 2005, and 2000 about election legitimacy.
The same stretching of the law to fit the desired outcome that the Democrats are using to get Trump is what they did to avoid or ignore plane evidence of election rigging, from redefining "signature validation," which with AI should be dirt simple now, and fast, redefining it to mean "something was written in the box," which in both Georgia and AZ, showed utter and complete mismatches.
2000 Mules was simply ignored and the copious evidence provided not allowed anywhere near a courtroom.
We pretended that it was normal for the poll workers in the Georgia Dome to pull large boxes of ballots out from under tables after turning off the cameras, and telling the Republican poll watchers to leave because of a leaky toilet, and these shenanigans regarding the boxes of ballots that they pulled out and started counting, when they said that they had stopped only came to light because they forgot that the Georgia Dome cameras were still running.
PA, even their Supreme Court said that Republican voters rights were violated, but "Too bad, so sad" it would be too. disruptive to address it. Well, these are the cases where the Framers said that it was up to the legislature to address these problems. That's how it was in Bush v Gore, but now it's treason to even suggest it.
AZ is another rigged election. The Democrat controlled election offices had a "heat map" posted on the wall that showed where Republicans voted most heavily, and then, on Election Day, somehow, for those precincts, printer settings got changed, which had worked the day before, and thousands of Republican votes got thrown out in a razor thin election.
Chuck's response will be that the judges wouldn't allow these things to get to court, so they never happened, but that's simply more evidence that the justice system has totally been corrupted.
The past election stunk to high heavens, and the Democrats stole the Senate, with the help of that fraudster SBF, who funded them to the tune of $250 million dollars, and Oh, By the way, our one sided justice system, the "Just Us" Department just dropped the campaign violation charges against him.
Havne't even gotten to Zuckerbucks, where Facebook employees had read-write access to official voter roles, and hundreds of millions were spent by Zuck to fund official voter outreach, to raise turnout, but only in Democrat heavy precincts, which was a campaign funding violation.
Every. item here, and many more, justifies Trump's belief that the election was rigged, and dollars to donuts, the "Just Us" Department will never let them see the light of day in a courtroom.
The poll numbers probably won't be affected by the indictment. Most polls as I recall put the numbers of voters who believe cheating affected the election at 50%, or above, despite the mediaswine, RINOs and the elite Dems assuring them that there was "no evidence." Gutless and complicit judges supported QuidProJoe in this nonsense.
For the fraud deniers the potential for cognitive dissonance is high enough to compel continued incognizance. For the informed the selective persecution of Trump is just more of the same.
I think a lot of Republicans say the election was stolen, not because they actually believe it, but to spite the media and Democrats. I've never been polled, but I would agree that election was stolen if asked. I don't believe that the election was "stolen" even thought I think there were a lot of shenanigans going on, like in Harris county, TX, where Houston is located.
So does that make all 70% of them terrorist revolutionaries like the left feels Trump is?
How about the fact that the Department of Just Us *knows* that multiple judges in the Court of Common Pleas, which makes rulings regarding election issues, like pretending it doesn't matter of Republican vote scrutineers are ejected from polling sites, the Just Us Department *knows* that several of these judges were election due to mob related ballot stuffing, and refuse to identify these judges.
There is a PA Supreme Court "Just Us" who is the brother of a notorious PA mobster.
Joe Biden one his first election with the help of the mob. His opponent was going to run a Sunday insert detailing the dirty corrupt dealings in Joe Biden's career, and, "son of a bitch," there was a one day strike, and that insert never went out.
Nancy Pelosi's father was a mobbed up Congressman.
This is why they can't let the camel's nose to get under the tent, they are all dirty.
Thanks for saving our democracy, Zuckerberg!
There was cheating. The COVID rules changes were cheating. There may have been the votes to elect Biden, but we will never know if they were lawful votes. Signature matching was ignored. Ballot security was ignored. But, the Fascist left doesn't care. They "won" by placing a dottering old fool in office.
Persecution seldom works out to the advantage of the persecutor.
My computer glitched so sorry if this is posted twice. But anyway, as I understand it the prosecuter is alleging that Trump made knowingly false statements about election integrity. That mean he must prove that the statements were false and Trump knew they were false. How can you prove there was no problems with election integrity? The civil cases that were tossed out are not res judicata in a criminal case (I remember that from Civ Pro over 40 years ago). He can just say "everybody knows its not true" when 70% of republicans say it is. So how does he prove there was no issues with the election (all over the country)?
Up. Definitely up.
You (by which I mean "I") don't have to believe that there was sufficient active voting/ballot fraud to tip the election to Biden in order for the 2020 election to have been illegitimate (although I am deeply suspicious on that point; it came down to a mere 40,000 or so votes in 5 places, after all, not the "So you're saying that MILLIONS AND MILLIONS of fraudulent votes were cast?" strawman the Biden supporters offer).
I believe that the election was fraudulent because the Republican side - and not just relating to Trump, but also down-ticket - was, as we have all now been informed by the Twitter and Facebook Files, shadow-banned, straight up banned, deplatformed, denied any deservedly positive news media coverage while endless coverage of anything that could be reported or spun as negative ran 24/7, and tarred with wild conspiracy-theory nonsense about foreign interference throughout the election cycle. Lack of access to what was quaintly called "the airwaves" in simpler times. Do ya think that might've had an effect?
We also know, because the other side not only didn't deny it but actually bragged about it, that there was a "shadowy cabal" of anti-Trump heroes who did everything in their DC/media power to prevent Trump's election through these means. People in positions of influence, using that influence to suppress voter turnout, ruin reputations of candidates, spin and outright hide information germane to voters' decisions. Think that might've done something?
We also know, because we watched it happening in real time, that in key states, election rules and procedures were changed, usually against state law (for instance, through judicial fiat) and using COVID safetyism as the unanswerable pretext, to permit massive mail-in voting, acceptance of extremely late ballots, ballot harvesting, and relaxation of voter certification. Any chance these changes might have permitted some less-than-qualified voting, or over-and under-represented some areas?
Finally, we know that every effort to question any of the above, either in public fora or in the courts, was shouted down, labeled as "racism" for some reason, and dismissed without a hearing on procedural grounds, and now anyone who continues to call for any sort of real audit of voting procedures and results is again called "racist" and dismissed with a wave of the hand because "all these questions were already thrown out." Denial of permission or ability to seek data, and declaration that the entire subject is off-limits. Might that point to a guilty, or at least an unconfident, state of mind?
So yes, I believe that the 2020 election was illegitimate, by design, by Democrats up and down the food chain. I don't know whether Trump "won" or not; the point is that we can't ever know for sure, because the Biden side has made damn sure that there's no way, legally or practically, to prove that the election was fair.
I've said it before: The harder the government prosecutes/persecutes those who say the election was rigged, the more I think the election was rigged.
I am not a registered republican, but I only vote against democrats.
What irks me is "illegitimate". What does that mean in terms of the 2020 election?
Does that include no voter ID and believing there should be no mail in voting and no early voting? I believe those 3 issues favor D's and thus will never be curtailed.
Opinion polls are not votes counted during official elections and only minor problems were found that resulted in the 2000 election being the most accurate in history. And 70% of Republicans in the opinion poll make up only about 25% of all voters.
Lots of Skeptical Voter's "rubes" live everywhere coast to coast and we know that the absolute biggest crook in the world is twice impeached and thrice indicted to date, but some Republicans like me await a RICO trial in Georgia.
"Well, don't trust your soul to no backwoods Southern lawyer
Cause the judge in the town's got bloodstains on his hand."
Joe Biden faces no charges nor any impeachment, which would be totally unwarranted, and can never make it out of the House of Representatives.
I’m not sure about the poll but nobody is willing to destroy the country in order to stop a falsehood. I have no doubt the election was stolen. The continuing corruption of the DOJ all but confirms it.
The hubris of Washington is frightening.
Yes - I say it will tick up, too. All those people what wanted to ‘move on’ may be forced to consider the evidence and the possibility that the 2020 Presidential election was indeed not all on the up and up…
"according to the criminal case"
Also according to numerous judicial determinations.
That's a "tick up" from 63% earlier this year.
63% to 69% is an increase of roughly ten percent. That’s a pretty loud “tick.”
Do you think the criminal charges will cause the poll number to tick back down or tick up even more? I'm guessing up.
I’m guessing you’re right, Althouse. Biden and the Dumbocrats seem ever terrified.
And that percentage should be even higher than 70%. Observations of highly unusual and suspicious activities in key states were noted by many before, during and after Election Day. Yet no court, to the best of my knowledge, ever permitted evidence to be taken.
They studiously ignore how many independents believe this - must not have been a promising number for Dems.
Confidence in a statement can be influenced by Bayesian probabilities. If you've seen elections go to weird litigation in Dade County Florida in 2000, or Anoka County Minnesota in 2008, or over write-in ballots in Alaska in 2010, or mail ballots in Virginia's 8th district in 2012, ... pretty soon you BEGIN with the presumption of fraud, and only exceptional efforts to demonstrate "clean" and rigorous adherence to well-established rules can overcome that presumption.
The COVID-related over-reactions and relaxations of voting rules were in no way "rigorous".
I don't *know* there was fraud in the 2020 presidential election. But I know fraud is pretty common. And generally afflicts urban areas. And so tends to benefit urban political "machines". Which tend to be run by Democrats.
As more attention is paid to questions about the 2020 election results, more people will begin to wonder whether the Biden victory was legitimate. Biden's performance as President will unavoidably be a factor in the way some folks think about this.
Al Sharpton, channeling all dems and LLR-democraticals, on this very day:
"Can you imagine if James Madison or Thomas Jefferson tried to overthrow the government so they could stay in power?"
Why yes. Yes I can imagine Madison and Jefferson overthrowing a government so their positions and power within the fledgling govt of the United States would be maintained.
Like Trump, they don’t believe it, they just say they believe it.
Those who think the 2020 outcome illegitimate need to address the subsequent rejections of Trumpist candidates in tossup states like PA, AZ, GA, and WI. Trumpists have an unfortunate tendency to win nominations and lose elections. A perfect combo for the Dems. The elephant party has to put candidates on the ballot who can convince a substantial majority of independent voters.
Based on recent history, the poll number will continue to go up. The DOJ and the media seem to be hell bent on making Trump a martyr. It’s fascinating to watch.
2020 election was unprecedented. It never happened that incumbent POTUS increase his support by 11 Million votes and still lost re-election. Every time incumbent POTUS failed to win re-election only after receiving less votes than first time around (Hoover, Carter, Bush Sr). At the very least, this unprecedented outcome should have attracted attention and efforts at explanation, as it normally happens with any unusual phenomena.
We have legions of historians exploring every little nuance of Presidential elections. It was more than 2.5 years since 2020 election. And yet in all of this time there was not a single article published pointing out how unprecedented 2020 election was and what could be the explanation for it.
There were so many witnesses to fraud taking place on the night of the election in so many polling places, not to mention vote tallies which defied mathematical probabilities. Just because no court was willing to hear these cases did nothing to alleviate doubts, let alone prove that Trump lost. The fact that some of his advisors are claimed to have told him he lost just indicates that even if they believed there was cheating, there was nothing to be done about it. The notion that Trump lied about his beliefs in order to hold onto power is more character assassination and a bizarre accusation. The fact that there is no limit to what is being done to prevent Trump from running suggests his claims are legitimate.
Have they tried totally ignoring Donald Trump? Or is he such good clickbait that they can't? Is their hate actually making him stronger? Stay tuned and find out!
Headline from mid November from next year:
"President-Elect Trump Indicted by D.C. Jury For Littering"
Butcher paper covering windows.
Boxes of ballots being pulled from beneath tables after the "Waterline break" and all the republican poll workers are sent home.
No. This election was completely legitimate.
Headline from 2035:
"Former President Trump Dies as D.C. Grand Jury Indicts Him for 142nd and Last Time"
"The notion that Trump lied about his beliefs in order to hold onto power is more character assassination and a bizarre accusation."
Trump has no "character" to assassinate. Boasting and lying and cheating have been his stock-in-trade throughout his career.
"If Biden really did get 81 million votes, why are they so worried about Trump?"
Because Biden didn't attract many votes for his virtues, other than the significant virtue that he was not Donald Trump. The vast majority of Biden voters were voting against Trump. However, Biden is in such obvious poor physical (and cognitive?) state that many may be reluctant to vote for him again even as a vote against Trump, (if Trump will be his opponent). But, who knows? Perhaps there are enough voters who would vote in an effectively incompetent Biden to defeat Trump. The great fuck-up of the Democrats is that they are not making great efforts to find a viable candidate to replace Biden. It will lead to a Biden loss or a Biden victory, and neither outcome is desirable.
What Rh said at 3:27 pm 👆🏽
why not let us call the 2020 election the Pink Elephant eveent not blackswan of 2020
No tick tag?
Folks still rocking those tick sTICKers?
"It seems that 69% of Republicans believe something that — according to the criminal case — is so obviously wrong that Trump's assertion that he believed it must be a lie."
And also a crime!
Show me the man ...
Partial List of wars the US has entered since i was born.. (i'm SURE i've missed quite a few)
Vietnam (South, North, Laos, Cambodia )
Dominican Republic
Grenada
Panama
Beirut
Persian Gulf (Desert Shield then Desert Storm)
Iraqi Nofly zone
Somalia
Bosnia
Kosovo
Afghanistan
Iraq war (as opposed to Desert Shield/Storm)
Libya
Syria
.....................Trump Era............ NO WAR
The Ukraine
TBA
The DOJ has charged Trump with a crime that carries death as a penalty.
I think that’s intentional. He’s a massive threat to everything from the money laundering machine to a new world older. If they can legally kill him, that’s probably their best option.
Candide said...
And yet in all of this time there was not a single article published pointing out how unprecedented 2020 election was and what could be the explanation for it.
No they were QUITE up front about their stealing of the election. Here's Time magazine February 4, 2021
The Secret History of the Shadow Campaign That Saved the 2020 Election
To the President, something felt amiss. “It was all very, very strange,” Trump said on Dec. 2. “Within days after the election, we witnessed an orchestrated effort to anoint the winner, even while many key states were still being counted.”
In a way, Trump was right.
There was a conspiracy unfolding behind the scenes, one that both curtailed the protests and coordinated the resistance from CEOs. Both surprises were the result of an informal alliance between left-wing activists and business titans.
Their work touched every aspect of the election. They got states to change voting systems and laws and helped secure hundreds of millions in public and private funding. They fended off voter-suppression lawsuits, recruited armies of poll workers and got millions of people to vote by mail for the first time. They successfully pressured social media companies to take a harder line against disinformation and used data-driven strategies to fight viral smears. They executed national public-awareness campaigns that helped Americans understand how the vote count would unfold over days or weeks, preventing Trump’s conspiracy theories and false claims of victory from getting more traction. After Election Day, they monitored every pressure point to ensure that Trump could not overturn the result.
If you believe an election was held honestly and votes tabulated accurately, you'd have no problem with auditing those votes.
Simple as that.
Absolute power that the Dems are using to destroy the USA is not based on election votes counted honestly. It is based on a weaponized plan to use the Gates Foundation bio weapon to change the election laws in swing states without a legislative vote. Just using an EMERGENCY declared needed to save voters lives. Then the pre made counterfeit ballots were stuffed in at 3:00 AM.
This was known by all parties. Declaring Biden an Absolute Monarch using Presidential Orders demanded that a man like Trump do something to secure an investigation. BUT THERE HAS NEVER BEEN A COURT HEARING.
Sounds like a conspiracy to me.
1. Of course there was significant fraud in the 2020 election, for all the reasons others have mentioned above (and more).
2. When did the 1st Amendment protect only speech that the speaker believes to be true? Don't politicians frequently say things they know to be false to gain or maintain power? Hillary saying Trump is a Russian agent comes to mind or that Trump colluded with the Russians to win in 2016. Or Biden saying he wouldn't raise taxes on those earning less than $400,000? Or that Mitt Romney cheated on his taxes ("it worked didnt it?")? If politicians couldn't lie to gain or maintain power, on pain of criminal liability, most campaigns would be largely silent.
we know that the absolute biggest crook in the world is twice impeached and thrice indicted to date, but some Republicans like me await a RICO trial in Georgia.
...
Joe Biden faces no charges nor any impeachment, which would be totally unwarranted, and can never make it out of the House of Representatives.
Friends and neighbors, gadfly is Republican! I mean it - no one else could (a) use the "look how many times MLK was arrested!" line as proof of guilt or even bad character (NOTE: I am not equating DJT and MLK. I am drawing an analogy.) and (b) say that whole last paragraph with a straight face, without its being a performance piece.
gadfly, you puckish little fella! Fished in!
1. Of course there was significant fraud in the 2020 election, for all the reasons others have mentioned above (and more).
2. When did the 1st Amendment protect only speech that the speaker believes to be true? Don't politicians frequently say things they know to be false to gain or maintain power? Hillary saying Trump is a Russian agent comes to mind or that Trump colluded with the Russians to win in 2016. Or Biden saying he wouldn't raise taxes on those earning less than $400,000? Or that Mitt Romney cheated on his taxes ("it worked didnt it?")? If politicians couldn't lie to gain or maintain power, on pain of criminal liability, most campaigns would be largely silent.
Anyone here from Chicago?
We all know that the Machine stuffs ballot boxes. It's been going on for decades and decades.
Covid mail in ballots just made it easier.
81 million votes for Joe Biden? Are you serious?
Trump has no "character" to assassinate. Boasting and lying and cheating have been his stock-in-trade throughout his career.
As opposed to Joe Biden, Cook?
Please give me a list of honest Democrat politicians.
And a list of the verified lying and cheating by Trump.
The Trump campaign hired a consulting firm to examine whether Trump lost the 2020 presidential election through fraud. The firm concluded that the answer was no. The campaign then hired a second firm, which reached the same conclusion.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2023/04/27/trump-false-election-fraud-claims/
Readers familiar with consulting, especially of the Washington variety, know that consulting firms are eager to please their clients. However, the firms are aware that if it becomes known that they conduct bogus analyses simply to please clients, other prospective clients will not hire them. So, there is some incentive for objectivity.
Trump was briefed on the consultants' results. He knows that his claims of losing by fraud are lies.
Should bump up to 80% after the Georgia charges are filed.
Why does it "tick" though.
Does it tick like a grandfather clock?
Would it be fair to have a voir dire question for potential jurers - do they believe the election was stolen? Would it be fair to exclude those who say yes? Would excluding half the country result in a "jury of Trump's peers?"
Many of them believe it because Trump told them to believe it.
Nope. I watched it unfold in real time on election night. Didn't need Trump to tell me anything.
And until and unless you people can explain why five swing states suddenly stopped updating their totals, told everybody they were done for the night, sent poll watchers home and then - miraculously - had Biden in the lead three hours later, that election will always stink.
And you know it. But you don't care.
You've taken away our soapbox. You've taken away the ballot box.
Crack open a history book and figure out the rest.
“Michelle O'Bama famously said, that the 1st time that she'd been proud of this country, was when her husband was made President.”
What Michelle actually said in February 2008 while her husband was campaigning in the early primaries:
Gilbar: "For the first time in my adult life, I am really proud of my country, because it feels like hope is making a comeback … not just because Barack has done well, but because I think people are hungry for change."
Now, you don’t have to accept that Michelle Obama was just talking about Presidential politics, but considering that as the context I will note that Michelle became an adult in 1982. There had been four Presidents in her adult life, Ronald Reagan, George H.W. Bush, Bill Clinton, and George W. Bush. As a Democrat, she wouldn’t be expected to be really proud of the Republican Presidents. Her dig was at Bill Clinton, and perhaps at Walter Mondale, Michael Dukakis, and John Kerry. Also, “really proud” is a qualification., leaving open the possibility of being proud but not really proud.
Gilbar, by contrast, says he is not proud to be an American. But which is it? Is he not proud or not an American?
Trump was briefed on the consultants' results. He knows that his claims of losing by fraud are lies.
Fools are very trusting of "experts." The rest of us have eyes and noticed what happened election night when Trump was ahead. The furious reaction of Democrats is also a "tell."
Blogger Ampersand said...
Those who think the 2020 outcome illegitimate need to address the subsequent rejections of Trumpist candidates in tossup states like PA, AZ, GA, and WI.
I can speak for AZ. On Election Day the voting machines in Republican districts around Phoenix all stopped working. They had worked fine the day before. The D candidate, a Soros ally was Secretary of State in charge of elections. In PA, I understand the D supreme Court changed election law in spite of the legislature.
Blogger Ampersand said...
Those who think the 2020 outcome illegitimate need to address the subsequent rejections of Trumpist candidates in tossup states like PA, AZ, GA, and WI.
I can speak for AZ. On Election Day the voting machines in Republican districts around Phoenix all stopped working. They had worked fine the day before. The D candidate, a Soros ally was Secretary of State in charge of elections. In PA, I understand the D supreme Court changed election law in spite of the legislature.
Blogger gilbar said...
TBA
That's what the majority of all this bullshit is about.
not really.. Not any more. I USED to be
Would it be fair to have a voir dire question for potential jurers - do they believe the election was stolen? Would it be fair to exclude those who say yes?
Would it be fair to exclude those who say no?
The way the establishment reacted to concerns about numerous and disturbing voting irregularities was the exact opposite of what they needed to do if they wanted to reassure all voters. They acted the way you'd expect if they had cheated. You need to prove the process is fair; you don't get to assume it.
"However, the firms are aware that if it becomes known..." that the consulting firm has gone against the Party, that consulting firm will be destroyed.
FIFY.
Right now there is a campaign going on, well funded, to disbar any lawyers who have represented Trump. Look what was done to Rudy Giuliani. Any charges filed? No, but his files were rifled, his phone was seized. The regime makes sure to punish its enemies.
Apparently though, the Department of Just Us is worried enough about Trump winning that they are working out a way to immunize Hunter against all future charges, this time in a Delaware court, so there are no slip-ups.
I wonder if it covers child porn and statutory rape though, because that's on the laptop, which is why Rudy, as an officer of the court, felt obligated to hand a copy over to the Delaware State Police, who then immediately handed it over to the FBI for disposal, and accused Rudy of purveying "Russian disinformation."
"Also according to numerous judicial determinations."
Where did any of this stuff go to an actual trial? Well, there was PA, where the courts found "Yeah, they cheated, but too bad, so sad." Politifact says that the court didn't find that, but in fact what politifact actually *says* the court didn't do was overturn the election, it just said "Don't do that in the future because it was unconstitutional." But, since, you know, it's Trump we're talking about, we would let it slide in 2020, wink, wink. You know why politifact writes absurd "findings" that can't withstand logic? Because Politifact knows that liberals won't look at the logic of it as long as they tell liberals what they want to hear.
This is the exact kind of case, where the election was fraudulently held, that should go, according to the Constitution, to the state legislature to be resolved. See Bush v Gore.
Blogger Jim at said...
And until and unless you people can explain why five swing states suddenly stopped updating their totals, told everybody they were done for the night, sent poll watchers home
--
The power of Jabfly's interstate pipe clog.
He's a few years older, but he probably still has it in him.
"Her dig was at Bill Clinton, and perhaps at Walter Mondale, Michael Dukakis, and John Kerry. "
vs Barack.
Whatever could be the "change"?
Hmmm...
Hillary said the Russians stole the election from her. That was total Bs.
And she used her private Server to line clinton foundation (fake charity) coffers with Secret Russian pay to play dollars. Like Biden did in Ukraine and China.
The soviet left want to make it illegal to have.... thoughts.
thoughts that go against their BS and lies.
They stuffed the ballot boxes. No trace. We know.
Turn the question around: At what point would the polling numbers cause this supposedly hypothetical, supposedly disreputable construct become the accepted commonsense fact? 80%? 90%?
What I remember is reading a series of articles the following week, from people with extensive experience in election oversight and election audit, in the US and in other countries, including 3rd world socialist countries. Every one of these people went right on down the list of red flags, and the 2020 election featured virtually every single one of them, in one place or another. Chapter and Verse.
If faith in elections is so fundamental to election fairness, then why is it that each and every audit of the vote was met with stony-faced iron resistance, right down to the bitter end? Why? Isn't the truth and an accurate vote count the goal?
Would it be fair to have a voir dire question for potential jurers - do they believe the election was stolen?
@tommyesq, yes
Would it be fair to exclude those who say yes?
Nope. It would, however, be fair to exclude those who answer in the negative, as they are too stupid to be able to reach a fair and just verdict.
Would excluding half the country result in a "jury of Trump's peers?"
Excluding Dumbocrats and their enablers would definitely result in a “jury of Trump’s peers.”
"Many of them believe it because Trump told them to believe it."
Nope. I watched it unfold in real time on election night. Didn't need Trump to tell me anything.
Same here. I didn't even know Trump was speaking on the subject until much later, as I am not fond of him as a person and throughout his presidency chose to avoid watching and listening to him.
@ Robert Cook: "Perhaps there are enough voters who would vote in an effectively incompetent Biden to defeat Trump."
No question. They did that in 2020.
The most telling thing in all of this?
Joe Biden said it himself: "We have put together, I think, the most extensive and and inclusive voter fraud organization in the history of American politics."
https://twitter.com/i/status/1320107370312323073
He said it, and it wasn't some "gaffe". He was telling the truth, just like with his little speech about getting the corruption prosecutor going after Burisma fired in Ukraine.
It's all out in the open; the only way you can deny the essential corruption of the man and his administration is if you're willfully stupid. He's boasted about this crap right out in the open, and everybody nods their head as though he's the Emperor in the fable, waving his member in their faces.
That video is the most telling thing about all of this. He did it, the Democrats did it, and they've done in plain view while the world watched.
The fraud was right out in the open- saturate the cities with mail-in-ballots, gather them up, fill them out, send them back in. The only other necessary requirement was to end stringent signature verification. It really was that simple. No one to date has compared the signatures accepted as verification the proper voter signed the ballot in any of these states, and the reason no one has looked is that no one has been allowed to do that forensic study of the 2020 or 2022 elections.
If you want to use mail-in-ballots, one of two things must be done- you either have to go to the election office to physically pick up your ballot while producing a photo ID, or you have to present a photo ID on delivering the final ballot to the election office. Anything else is just an open invitation to massive vote fraud.
Michael K said...
"The rest of us have eyes and noticed what happened election night when Trump was ahead."
DAAAA I went to bed and Trump was ahead. DAAAA I woke up and he was behind. Its rigged I tell you. Plus they let Black women vote.
This is an outrage and you people should take it to court. What's that you say? Oh, never mind.
Kurt Schuler said:
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Readers familiar with consulting, especially of the Washington variety, know that consulting firms are eager to please their clients. However, the firms are aware that if it becomes known that they conduct bogus analyses simply to please clients, other prospective clients will not hire them. So, there is some incentive for objectivity.
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Some. But what would have happened to the firm if they'd said "Yes - there was."? Would the folks in DC ever hire them again, or would they be blacklisted for saying Trump was right?
Sorry - but I think there's so much political animosity from the DC and Democrat crowd that getting an honest eval of the 2020 election's pretty unlikely. You've got the people who hate Trump with a blinding passion, you've got people who fudged the ballot counts, those are not exclusive sets - and they're going to cover their asses with a great deal of vigor because if they don't then they're going to jail for a considerable period.
As Blogger Mason G said...
"If you believe an election was held honestly and votes tabulated accurately, you'd have no problem with auditing those votes.
Simple as that."
That there's such resistance to doing so doesn't fill me with confidence that the election was honest and accurate. YMMV.
gilbar said...
Serious Question
Michelle O'Bama famously said, that the 1st time that she'd been proud of this country, was when her husband was made President..
So, my question for you all is: Are YOU Proud to be an American???
I'm NOT
8/3/23, 2:53 PM
I was....Until Obama fundamentally changed it to the shithole it has become.
The irregularities are undeniable.
I believe the election was stolen via COVID modifications that were not legal but also could not be challenged for stupid reasons. Go ahead Smith. Indict me too!
The four critical states to Biden's win by a small margin all had the same pattern.
- Trump was leading comfortably late at when the ballot counting was started for "reasons."
- Instead of starting witnessed counting the next day at an agreed time, the counting was started again a couple of hours later in secret or started with barriers between the witnessed and the counters.
- Miraculously, Biden wins all four states.
The results in all four states violated Benford's Law. That is the same statistical law the IRS uses to examine things like corporate expense accounts. A deviation from this law will result in an item-by-item audit.
So, yeah, we believe Biden's win was illegitimate.
Mike (MJB Wolf) said...
"I believe the election was stolen via COVID modifications that were not legal but also could not be challenged for stupid reasons. "
Your Honor, i move to dismiss for stupid reasons which are all set forth in my moving papers.
"If you want to use mail-in-ballots, one of two things must be done- you either have to go to the election office to physically pick up your ballot while producing a photo ID, or you have to present a photo ID on delivering the final ballot to the election office."
Word on the street is that black people are unable to get photo IDs. So- racist.
A soft coup with the thinnest veneer of legality...
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