In "The winners and losers from the first Republican debate" (WaPo), Aaron Blake counts Fox News among the losers.
Ep. 19 Debate Night with Donald J Trump pic.twitter.com/ayPfII48CO
— Tucker Carlson (@TuckerCarlson) August 24, 2023
August 24, 2023
"Candidates repeatedly disregarded the debate rules, with little in the way of an attempt to keep the proceedings on track."
"When candidates talked over moderators Bret Baier and Martha MacCallum as they tried to move on, the moderators often just relented and gave them the stage.
But the problems were most evident in the moderators’ handling of hand-raising questions — a good and helpful entry at any debate.
The first time they requested such responses, DeSantis objected to the format, and they let him do it, declining to make the request again.
Later, they asked whether the candidates would support Trump in the general election if he is convicted. Only Christie and Hutchinson declined, but both DeSantis and Pence were slow to raise their hands. And for some reason, there was no follow-up with them."
In "The winners and losers from the first Republican debate" (WaPo), Aaron Blake counts Fox News among the losers.
In contrast to the loud chaos of the debate, there was the gentle fireside conversation between 2 calm men:
In "The winners and losers from the first Republican debate" (WaPo), Aaron Blake counts Fox News among the losers.
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43 comments:
Plural candidates did not talk repeatedly over the moderators. One candidate did. Pence was horrific.
"Ramaswamy is impressively loathsome."--Democratical neocon Bill Kristol
Well.
'Nuff said on the debate then.
With that Kristol "endorsement", clearly Ramaswamy must have won the debate, such as it was, and come closest overall to the republican base in terms of his policy positions.
Five seconds in I see Trump looking and acting Presidential, discussing important policy and the screaming monkeys at the other one...
I'm a bit disappointed in Tucker's place- from interior shots it looks very Montana-Architectural-Digest man-cave but from the exterior it looks very Montana-end-of-the-driveway-where-I-store-the-snow-plow-and-other-equipment-in-the-shed man-cave. Kind of like when you drive by Jerry Spense's office in Jackson Hole- the log cabin in the woods just down the block from TJ Maxx and the Loaf N' Jug. (Could be worse, I suppose- could be next door to the Town Pump)...
Tucker would make a better President than any of the GOPe candidates on the stage last night.
Today, the regime will perp walk President Trump for being correct about the 2020 election fraud. We might have a mug shot by the end of the day. You are living under a corrupt, compromised, installed executive as a result of the 2020 fraud. Ask the children of Maui. Wait...you can't...
This is an epic battle. Not one GOPe candidate seems to understand that except maybe Vivek.
Trump seemed quite relaxed in the Tucker interview. Trump or bust. If you abandoned ship, you've capitulated and given up the fight pretending you're interested in "winning".
Hey, can you put together a meme with Nikki Haley pointing and yelling at Chris Christie, like Smudge the Cat? Thanks.
Hey, Aaron Blake. You go trying running a debate with 8 smart people who are Type A and want to be noticed.
I hate second-guessing of officials in sports. And in politics too. In fact, everything. For me, I could have done a better job in the last case I tried and it was painful for me to read the transcript!
DeSantis wasn't just slow to raise his hand. He looked over at Vivek's (enthusiastically) raised hand and only then raised his hand. It looked like he was cheating on a test. This moment exposed him as a grand phony, and it should mark the end of his aspirations.
Why do you need or want an audience? It makes it all a circus, not a serious "debate." But of course that is what Fox wants. Their CFO wants ratings, not seriousness. Ratings are critical for the top line performance, and for the CFO's bonus.
If one really wants to solve the "talking over the other person" problem, the easy solution is to put each candidate on a clock. When they're talking the clock runs. If they talk over someone, both clocks run. When each candidate is out of time, their microphone gets turned off.
The losers are the people who actually watched the "debate".
I agree with DeSantis, the hand-raising bullshit is for children. It simplifies what should be a serious question and interferes with a serious response. I would announce up front that I'm not participating in any kindergarten maneuvers, and you can interpret it however you want.
I would also refuse to answer any question that isn't a question - that is, one preceded by the moderator's assumptions. Every question would be required to be a single sentence with no declarative statements such as "In light of the fact that...."
The first Republican "debate" and Trump wins it by a landslide while not even showing up. Elephant indeed.
The Epstein exchange is fascinating (“he was a fixture in Palm Beach”)?
Tucker Carlson (04:48):
It was clear… This is kind of far-field, but it was just interesting. I read Barr’s account of his time. He wrote a book about it, his autobiography, and in it he lies about Jeffrey Epstein’s death. Clearly lies.
Donald Trump (05:01):
Yeah.
Tucker Carlson (05:03):
Do you think Epstein killed himself? Sincerely?
Donald Trump (05:05):
I don’t know. I will say that he was a fixture in Palm Beach.
Tucker Carlson (05:09):
Yeah.
Donald Trump (05:11):
I don’t know what Barr said about it either. I have no idea what he said. What did he say? He killed himself, probably?
Tucker Carlson (05:16):
He said he killed himself and that they were going to do this investigation. They never did the investigation. It’s never been public. And they hid it and like, why are they doing that? And clearly Barr knew, but why would Bill Barr be covering up the death of Jeffrey Epstein?
Donald Trump (05:28):
Bill Barr didn’t do an investigation on the election fraud either, okay. He said he did, and he pretended he did, but he didn’t. McSwain, the US attorney in Pennsylvania, Philadelphia, said Barr just wouldn’t let him do it.
(05:41)
It was crazy. Barr became so petrified, so frightened of being impeached. They were going to impeach him. I don’t know if you remember it.
Tucker Carlson (05:48):
Yeah.
Donald Trump (05:49):
It’s not a big moment in history. But they said, we are going to impeach. They play a much rougher game, the Left, the lunatics, and they were going to impeach Bill Barr, and he was petrified. Now, how do you not get impeached? Don’t do any of this stuff. But he didn’t do the job there. I don’t know what he did with Epstein, but possibly he didn’t do that.
Tucker Carlson (06:09):
Do you think it’s possible that Epstein was killed?
Donald Trump (06:10):
Oh, sure. It’s possible. I mean, I don’t really believe, I think he probably committed suicide. He had a life with, you know, beautiful homes and beautiful everything, and he all of a sudden he’s incarcerated and not doing very well. I would say that he did. But there are those people. There are many people, I think you’re one of them, right? But a lot of people think that he was killed. He knew a lot on a lot of people.
Tucker Carlson (06:37):
He was killed, I think.
Donald Trump (06:38):
You think so?
Tucker Carlson (06:39):
I think the closer you look, I’m not a conspiracy person at all. I believe everything I hear. But yeah, the closer you look into it, I mean the Attorney General of the United States, your Attorney General, clearly lied about the Epstein death. And why?
Donald Trump (06:53):
He was… Certainly, it wasn’t well done. They had no cameras, they had no anything. Everybody was sleeping. A case could be made. Look, I’m not going to get involved in it, but I can tell you, a case could be made either way, but it certainly wasn’t the most well-run place.
I didn't watch, and only saw a picture of the candidates. Was there a dress code? The men all had dark suits and red ties.
Pence had a slam-dunk win, though passively, when Christie praised him for obeying the Constitution But instead of letting that sit, he took the first opportunity to remind us, in a self-righteous overlong monologue that of course invoked Jesus, why we'll never vote for him.
DeSantis was the best presence in that debate last night. WaPo calling him the loser is confirmation of that. He's a man of action and even what he spoke about, and how he spoke about it projected that. HIs 'slow hand' on the Trump question is meaningless to me. That's not why I would vote for a President. And the raising hands bullshit was taken on directly by DeSantis early in this thing.
Vivek was also a winner, because so many who have never heard him, got to see him in action. A whirlwind. He makes young persons mistakes at times. But to me he's refreshing. But then, I'm often drawn to the outsiders. I prefer someone who has not spent their lives in politics or DC to run DC.
Pence lost. He's pompous, obnoxious, and overly righteous. I doubt that outside of the careerist GOPers thinks highly of him.
Haley had, to me, the most cogent response to abortion, and frankly, if Republicans were smart, they'd take up her platform on the subject. She's very bright, very competent, but her allegiance to the old world ways of US foreign policy turn me away from her.
Tim Scott is a nice guy. He remains a nice guy. He'll be a great senior Senator for years to come.
I liked Doug Burgum. I like people with ideas. He's another man with new ideas. DC is short on people with new ideas.
Asa needs to call it a career.
Chris Christy is a man in search of a fight. He won't be President. But he's someone you'd like to have on your side as President. Trump won't do that. But perhaps DeSantis would. One wonders how Christy would to as AG? It'd be interesting.
I missed the first 10 minutes but otherwise watched the whole thing. I thought it went much better than I expected.
I really liked Vivek Ramaswami. I am liking him more and more as I hear him. I especially liked that, unasked, he told us that climate change is a hoax and, I think it was him, that they climate change hoax has caused more deaths that climate change ever will. He didn't mention but my mind immediately went to the 1000 people burned to death in Maui.
I liked that several of them came out, unasked, and said that there are men an women, period. Different contexts, locker rooms for Haley, sports for Scott, kids for RDS. But I was really impressed that they were not afraid to say it.
I was seriously disappointed with Asa Hutchinson saying that our president emeritus should be kept off the ballot for insurrection. Even though he has not been indicted or even accused of insurrection. Donald Trump is entitled, like any other American, to the presumption of innocence.
I do not understand how Mike Pence felt pressured by President Trump asking him not to certify. Pence made a big deal of that here and elsewhere. I think it is one of the federal charges that PEDJT is facing. Yet Pence more than anyone else should know that the president has no, zero, zip, nada, power over the VP. Especially in this case since both would be out of office in a few days if Pence certified. But if Pence did not certify, as is his right, and the Congress said that Trump/Pence had won, The president would still have no power at all over the VP.
So how did the president pressure Pence? Pence is spouting bullshit to cover his failure (as perceived by some)
I wish it had been a bit better controlled with less cross and overtalking but overall I thought it a worthwhile use of a couple hours.
I'll watch Tucker's interview tonight. Something like 150mm views so far. That would be almost half the total population. Some may be double counted or overlapping. Still a lot of people tuning in.
John Henry
Dang it.
Why can't I quit you?
He's just so funny sometimes.
I like Megyn Kelly and her podcast, listen a couple times a week when she has an interesting guest or topic.
Yesterday she was absolutely ON FIRE! "You could see there was blood coming out of her eyes. Blood coming out of her -- wherever," As a great man said in another context. She was really pissed off, using the F word and just barely in control. Though that may have been partly schtick.
The topic was Vivek Ramaswami coming out as a 911 Truther, in Kelly's opinion. A truther being someone who basically believes that the US Govt was responsible for 9/11
Kelly had a lot to say as well as several clips that she claimed condemned him in his own words.
But none of the clips I heard seemed to make him a Truther. Vivek said that he does not think the USG and/or the 9/11 commission have told us the whole truth. It is one hell of a leap to get from that to USG was behind the attack.
I don't believe the USG or the commission has told us the whole truth about 9/11. IS there anyone here that believes that they have? Does that make us all truthers?
FWIW, In general I don't believe the USG has told us the entire truth about anything for the past 100 years or so. Sometimes by lying, sometimes just by omission. Sometimes it is reasonable for them to hide the truth. Other times not. But justified or not, we do not get the whole truth from the govt hardly ever.
I do find Vivek's questions about whether there were federal agents on the 4 planes a bit odd. But, even though odd, they are legitimate questions. FWIW, I have always assumed that there were Sky Marshalls on at least some of the planes just in the normal practice and that they are "federal agents" But I don't know and don't much care.
John Henry
Key takeaway
They really, really, really hate Vivek.
Another major point in his favor as far as I am concerned.
John Henry
Hand raising questions are punk BS, the literal equivalent to a straightforward "Do you still beat your wife" question.
Nikki is nice but she hasn't grasped that the Republicans need the people who don't want to keep fighting foreign wars to win.
Key takeaway
They really, really, really hate Vivek.
Another major point in his favor as far as I am concerned.
I've decided to call him Vivek because I can get that right. I'll be constantly screwing up Ramaswami.
John Henry
Blogger Gusty Winds said...
Trump or bust. If you abandoned ship, you've capitulated and given up the fight pretending you're interested in "winning".
Amen, Gusty, Amen.
Even if "bust" means another 4 years of Biden, Harris, Newsome or whoever.
If not PEDJT, we are still in "Worse is better" mode and have not yet bottomed out. We do not need better beverage service on the hadcart to Hell.
John Henry
Everyone said they would abolish the Department of Education. A worthy goal but utter bullshit. I've been hearing this for 40 years. No Republican has ever tried.
I doubt any of these folks would try either.
John Henry
Aaron Blake was one of the WP assholes who tried to libel Nick Sandmann.
Why would anyone who is voting against Biden care what the POS hack Blake says?
Why would anyone care what the POS hack Blake says?
Blogger cassandra lite said...
Pence had a slam-dunk win, though passively, when Christie praised him for obeying the Constitution
But he did not obey the constitution, by certifying. He followed the constitution and took on of the permitted options. Had he not signed the certification and send the election to the Congress, he still would have been "Obeying the Constitution". It was his sole decision, there was nobody at all, anywhere, who had any power to pressure him one way or the other.
We can argue all day long whether he did the right thing or not. But he was not required to certify and would have obeyed the Constitution whether he did or not.
Buncha sanctimonious windbag bullshitters.
John Henry
I don't have cable, couldn't watch, but it sounds like Nikki Haley said some things that needed to be said.
DeSantis wasn't just slow to raise his hand. He looked over at Vivek's (enthusiastically) raised hand and only then raised his hand. It looked like he was cheating on a test. This moment exposed him as a grand phony, and it should mark the end of his aspirations.
My wife and I noticed the same thing and had the same disgust over it.
I'm not inclined to like Haley, so she pleasantly surprised me, especially with her answer on the abortion question. Then we got to Ukraine and she became spittle-flecked. All of her Thatcher-esque (her comparison) restraint went out the window.
I just saw the clip of DeSantis and Pence looking around to the other candidates when asked would they still support Trump if convicted as "your party's choice". Meaning, will you support Trump as the nominee if the voters you want to vote for you, still pick him.
Vivek, Haley, and Tim Scott raise their hands immediately. DeSantis and Pence look around at the other candidates and slowly raise their hands.
Fuck Pence, but DeSantis had to look around the room to decide how to answer?
That's the big DeSantis moment from the debate. He has no chance absorbing the MAGA base. Blew it.
What About Abortion?
https://thefederalist.com/2023/08/24/heres-where-republican-presidential-candidates-stand-on-pro-life-policies-after-the-gop-debate/
most candidates spoke candidly about their support for pro-life policies. Many of their promises to shield the unborn, however, fell short of the national 15-week abortion ban that more than half of Americans want
Personally; i don't think murder is something that should be left up to the states.
Some states (NY, Cali, let's just lump them all as: ILL) will allow the murder of their children..
All the more reason to move OUT of those hell holes; But Constitutionally it's their business
"Donald Trump has put the fear of God into the elites, the globalists, the technofascists, and their government allies. He has done this by showing how false, how hollow, and how meaningless their agenda is, by revealing how easy it is to defy them, how simply they can be undermined.
That’s the explanation for all of it: the impeachments, the cheating, the slander, the threats, and now the pantomime indictments and the bogus show trials.
The Dems, the Deep State, the globalists and their technofascist allies have had several years now to make the big move into pure authoritarianism, to send out their goons, their drones, the helicopters to leash and bind the people of this country. To bring down the iron boot good and hard. But they haven’t dared try it. Need we ask why?"
https://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2023/08/trump_and_the_tower_of_lies.html
Darkisland (i think) said...
I've decided to call him Vivek because I can get that right. I'll be constantly screwing up Ramaswami.
my i suggest: VGR?
Today, the regime will perp walk President Trump for being correct about the 2020 election fraud. We might have a mug shot by the end of the day.
========
are 'perps' not allowed any selfie gestures when their mugs are shot? even for additional CHARGE on the docket?
A Churchillian V should do it
I do find Vivek's questions about whether there were federal agents on the 4 planes a bit odd. But, even though odd, they are legitimate questions. FWIW, I have always assumed that there were Sky Marshalls on at least some of the planes just in the normal practice and that they are "federal agents" But I don't know and don't much care.
=====
OTOH >> what if these 'guardians/babysitters' bailed out from taking those flights?
so anwering no is not exculpatory!
Darkisland (i think) said...
"I've decided to call him Vivek because I can get that right. I'll be constantly screwing up Ramaswami."
gilbar said...
"May I suggest: VGR?"
Like V'ger from Star Trek?
"He said he killed himself and that they were going to do this investigation. They never did the investigation. It’s never been public. And they hid it and like, why are they doing that? And clearly Barr knew, but why would Bill Barr be covering up the death of Jeffrey Epstein"
Barr's father hired Epstein as a math teacher at the private school Barr was the principal of. Epstein was like 18 at the time.
Source: Martyr Made podcast.
"Candidates repeatedly disregarded the debate rules, with little in the way of an attempt to keep the proceedings on track."
One of the first debate rules was the agreement to support the eventual nominee.
It would seem several people on stage already disregarded their obligation to that one.
The debate indicated that a Credible Alternative is alive, well, and speaking. It was a vibrant discussion of many issues dear to Republican voters. I don't think all Republican voters are going to be All About Him All The Time! With each debate the challengers will pick up collective strength and Trump will erode. The clay around the feet will start to melt away. Last night, Ramaswamy was the exception; no one likes a toady.
My wife and I thought that Mike Pence and Nikki Haley made appealing impressions and spoke well.
The overall Republican primary process may be more issues based and less personality based than the mainstream media thinks.
I have yet to understand what a modern American political debate is, consequently I do not not know why or even how these events become chaotic, as if any system so evidently disordered at the outset can become more chaotic than it already is. Of one thing I’m pretty certain, whatever a modern American political debate is, it’s not a debate. It’s more like one of those malignant psychological experiments of the sort conducted by the nasty and notorious Stanley Milgram. The real point of this sort of carnival show isn’t an enlightening application of logic to a vexing proposition, it’s metaphorical bloodshed. There are two possible winner categories, and neither is most successful logician. One is most savage, the other is least embarrassed. A most savage winner prevails by exploiting the inherent chaos to inflict the most grievous rhetorical wounds on his contenders, usually abetted by a friendly interrogator armed with loaded questions and dubious “facts”. A least embarrassed winner succeeds only when the others, all aiming for a most savage kill, bleed each other out.
So what do we learn from a typical modern American political debate? Not much about the candidates. Anyone with a three-digit IQ can be coached into appearing to be a master of the facts, so that’s hardly informative or important, though it does reveal why Joe Biden has always looked moronic when facts are involved with his absurd attempts at rhetoric. Nothing more than the Romans could learn by watching mortal combat in the arena, that humans will destroy their fellows quite willingly given the right circumstances. However, the Romans and ourselves could learn important truths about the arrangers of such spectacles if we look beyond the dripping gore to the smug faces watching us watching the degradations.
Kevin has it right. Everyone on the debate stage had explicitly vowed to support the GOP nominee, whoever s/he might be. The people who declined to do that (Hutchinson and Christie, IIRC) are the ones who screwed up. Everyone else was just verifying what they had already said in agreeing to the terms of the debate.
Once again we have the following:
1) Moderators (despite the article) talking too much and interfering too much
2) Republican candidates getting asked about Leftwing issues. Even Fox does this.
3) Candidates getting asked "Gotcha questions"
4) Moderators asking Candidates to "Raise their Hands" like they were 3rd Graders
5) Too many lame, minor league candidates with less than 5 percent of the voe on stage
6) Too much arguing, insulting, and cross-talk.
If you want to put on an entertainment show, just have the candidates do a tap dance, or tell a few jokes. Or maybe they could all play "simon says". Or bring out Max the Insult dog and see who can do the best impersonation.
I've come to the conclusion the Power Elite doesn't want REAL debates. They don't want certain issues addressed or discussed on TV in an intelligent manner. So they turn every Republican debate into a clown show. They MUST hold debates. Republicans wouldn't stand for NO debates. So, they do the next best thing, they give us WORTHLESS debates.
I don't watch debates live. There's no point. I have no input until it's time I can vote, at which point I will wade through my bookmarks and binge watch them to observe how those whom I have to choose from have evolved.
I don't have the time or desire to wade through the flotsam and it's easier to spot differences in a person when watched serially.
I worked a news gig there with a reporter who formed his interpretation/story based on about 20 folks in the news room and 3 actual attendants of the debate.
As I helped set up for maximum flow with post debate attendees, he told me hates man on the street interviews. After 3, he said he had heard enough.
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