Said Judge Michael Luttig, quoted in "'No Republican party’ in US today, says anti-Trump conservative judge
J Michael Luttig, who advised Mike Pence not to try to overturn 2020 election, says former president has destroyed GOP" (The Guardian).
Trump, he said, was a danger “more so today” than last year, when Luttig testified to the House January 6 committee.
I can't help reading between the lines and seeing Luttig's outrage that Trump broke the system in which the elite were thinking up the beliefs and values and principles and policy views and ordinary people were stuck with what was handed to them. It's very nice for the elite to have the subjective experience of a "shared set of beliefs" — to feel affirmed by this appearance of widespread agreement with their ideas. Trump activated the people who didn't really share that set of beliefs, and now the elite is having the loathsome subjective experience of feeling pressure from those insubordinate people. But the elite will go on and on pretending that all they are seeing is that dangerous man Trump. He must be stopped, and America must be saved, by getting back to that old system that felt so right.
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161 comments:
"So today, in my view, there is no Republican party"
There is no Republic party, in his view, because it no longer takes orders from people like him and David Brooks and George Will. There's a Republican party, it's just not the GOB (Good 'Ol Boys) anymore.
Yeah, the old system. The uniparty system. Where the Dems and NYT were in charge and the GOP was the controlled opposition.
How did it ever come to pass the Donald J Trump became a savior of American democracy, defender of the Republic and President of the United States? I feel like Rip Van Winkle waking up, yet I have never been asleep or unaware. Next step martyrdom. Who had that on their American History bingo card?
One party does not get to dictate the other party’s values.
Self-awareness ought to be brought back into politics.
The problem is that somebody has kissed a frog and turned him into a journalist, a frog who has never been a journalist. He still has the self-awareness of a frog. Leaps at flies.
“It's very nice for the elite to have the subjective experience of a "shared set of beliefs" — to feel affirmed by this appearance of widespread agreement with their ideas. Trump activated the people who didn't really share that set of beliefs, and now the elite is having the loathsome subjective experience of feeling pressure from those insubordinate people.”
Well done, I think you’re writing better now than you did in the early 2000s.
Is there a way to search for when you first started blogging about the elite? Just curious.
I agree completely with your last paragraph Althouse.
How frightening for "the elite" to have hoi polloi think for themselves!
In what universe is Michael Luttig a representative of the of the Republican Party? He has been an inside DC lawyer and Judge for over 40 years. He has never run for office or ever sought or encouraged a single vote. Let Luttig seek a single vote or speak to a room full of Trump supporters before pontificating about the health and future of the party. Trump got more votes in 2020 than any Republican Presidential candidate in history. More than 74 million more than Michael Luttig ever received.
The GOP deserves to be destroyed. The GOP gave us a 20-year war in Afghanistan and the colossal blunder of the Iraq War. In effect, after Obama's election, the two parties were essentially indistiguishible on multiple dimensions- neither is fiscally responsible, and Obama gave us the Arab Spring disasters in north Africa, continuance/doubling down on Afghanistan and more US military operations around the world, and is directly responsible for the unfolding disaster in Ukraine.
What the country needs is a party that represents the citizens of the country, not the interests of global institutions, corporations, and military contractors. Trump offered that when no one else was, and no one other than Trump and possibly Ramaswamy and Kennedy is offering it today.
I am not naive- I realize that such a transformative party will have to be built using the GOP political infrastructure, but it can't happen right now given the decay of the voting apparatus into complete fraud. Things will have to get much, much worse, and things will get much, much worse- this I can promise you.
But the elite will go on and on pretending that all they are seeing is that dangerous man Trump.
So the smarter than everyone crowd isn't nearly as smart as they believe themselves to be?
Fancy that!
The Guardian, for those who don't know UK "journalism" is MSNBC written down.
For example, they claim that:
"The (J6) effort failed but nine deaths have been linked to the riot, including law enforcement suicides."
I mean come on. That sets my BS detector off.
He's right tho, there is only 1 political party in the United States: Democrats
The Republican Party just recently gave Joe Biden and the Democrats $4 trillion borrowed dollars. Those dollars will of course be laundered through a panoply of Democrat Party constituencies. A great deal of those taxpayer dollars will end up donated back to the DNC (tribute, like in the Mafia ... Paulie always gets his cut.)
No real opposition political party would fund their enemies in this way.
Ditto, Althouse, Ditto!
There is no America. We are now Banan-America.
The former Republican Party (what's left now is a mere husk of what it was) arose from the collapse of the Whig Party in the 1850s. So it would not be unheard of if a new party (let's call it the Deplorable party) were to rise from the ashes of the right wing of the Uniparty.
Every time I hear a Washington politician, or a mainstream media person talk about "saving our democracy", I get the urge to vomit. "Our democracy" is shorthand for more of the same old same old when the self-styled elites were firmly in charge, and the lesser educated plebes were out in the cold.
Professor, I had the same reaction as you.
The outrage is that Republicans look up to a deranged lunatic as their champion. Do folks read Truth Social?
"I can't help reading between the lines and seeing Luttig's outrage that Trump broke the system in which the elite were thinking up the beliefs and values and principles and policy views and ordinary people were stuck with what was handed to them. It's very nice for the elite to have the subjective experience of a "shared set of beliefs" — to feel affirmed by this appearance of widespread agreement with their ideas. "
Another manifestation of this is the elite's compulsion for censorship. It appears to outrage them that there are people who don't share their belief system and have the audacity to say so.
"In what universe is Michael Luttig a representative of the of the Republican Party? He has been an inside DC lawyer and Judge for over 40 years."
IOW, a LLR.
@ Ms Althouse
If you want to make sense of this you really need to define what you mean by such terms as the governing class or "elites"; which "elites" are you referring to. Without such definitions you cannot avoid such a piece degenerating into meaningless waffle.
There is a misconception that everyone who rails against the "elite" is against hierarchy in general, when in practice they just hate the current rulers. Particularly on the right the problem is generally who is in charge, not that someone is.
He should become a Democrat already, he might find it surprising how closely the interests of wealthy donors of both parties align, I am sure he will feel right at home.
Both sides are fanatical about tax cuts. Remember SALT? How urgent it was to get that tax cut for rich Democrats? Remember when Paul Ryan used the Republican majority to push through tax cuts instead of addressing the millions of scabs crossing the border and depressing American wages?
Trump didn't destroy the GOP. The GOP destroyed the GOP, and that's how you got Trump. The base got tired of being told to fall in line for Bush-wing failures like McCain and Romney, and when they complained were sneeringly told to do the work of getting their own candidate elected. They did, only for the GOP leadership to throw a snit.
Then, when handed Congress and the WH in 2017, the GOP political class failed miserably. Want to know when the GOP died? Here.
Saying that Trump destroyed the GOP is like watching a spouse walk out the door after years of abuse, infidelity, and public humiliation, only to say to her, "you blew up your marriage."
The judge is perfectly understandable. An elite swamp critter can't imagine a political party that doesn't fully support the swamp.
Oh, the Dear God of it all. Like fighting mini-skirts.
Trump is exactly what Newsom said about gay marriage:
"It's gonna happen whether you like it or not."
Kevin said...
One party does not get to dictate the other party’s values.
There is no path to the WH for Republicans with Trump. He would need every single Republican and independent vote, and there are untold numbers of Republicans and independents who will never vote for him, if for no other perfectly legitimate reason than that he has corrupted America’s democracy and is now attempting to corrupt the country’s rule of law. No sane Democrat will vote for Trump — even over Sleepy Joe — when there are so many sane Republicans who will refuse to vote for Mr. Trump. This is all plain to see, which makes it all the more mystifying why more Republicans don’t see it.
Isn't there always a class and culture gap between the party's ideological guardians and its rank and file? The idea people, if they do their jobs right, come up with ideas that work at both the high end and the low end. The Luttigs want to be excused from the obligation to persuade the peasants.
He's absolutely correct that the US cannot function without an opposition party to the Democrats. Look at what's happening:
1) THe DC Republicans are agreeing to Biden DOJ's crazy attempt to Jail the Leading republican candidate for the 2024 POTUS nomination and the ex-POTUS and Biden 2020 opponent. A few have spoken out, but the almost all the Senators/Congressmen have remained silent or support Biden.
2) The DC Senate Republicans have offered no effective oppostion to Biden's radical judges and Cabintet members. Almost every nominee has been fast-tracked and rubberstamped.
3) Congressial and Senate Republicans have offered no opposition to Biden's foreign policy, and almost none to his out-of-control spending.
4) The Senate Minority leader has constantly offered to help Biden pass legislation. Biden's Legislation. Further, no legislation has been filibustered. Instead, the R's have helped the D's pass "Crooks get out jail free" legislation, Gun control, and various other D legislation.
5) The Senate Republican Leadership never criticizes Biden over his open borders policy, and if they go on TV, its to support Biden's military aid to the ukraine, or his various trade/immigration/crime policies that are unpopular WITH THEIR OWN VOTERS.
It’s remarkable how assertions of rampant election fraud doesn’t register as “democracy in great peril”.
Reminds me of the underwear commercial. It’s election fraud when I say it’s election fraud.
Elitism is correct Althouse.
"The GOP deserves to be destroyed. The GOP gave us a 20-year war in Afghanistan and the colossal blunder of the Iraq War."
It wasn't a "blunder," it was a premeditated crime.
"‘I can’t see it’, just doesn’t cut it.
It’s more along the lines of, ‘I see what’s happening, but it’s scary and complicated and confusing, and if I admit that I see it, I will become responsible in a way that I am not if I keep pretending; I can’t see it or hear it, or maybe I don’t understand it.’
In his memoir Hitch-22, Christopher Hitchens said:
It is easy to see why people want to exert power over others, but what fascinated me was the way in which the victims colluded in the business."
Gaby Kouric
American Thinker
feeling pressure from those insubordinate people.
Damn right. Insubordinate and unvaccinated. That's the real American spirit.
The elite don't want the people governing themselves.
Trump or bust baby.
There hasn’t been an opposition since Reagan.
The republicans folding like a lawn chair is the “opposition” liberals have become accustomed to.
Lo and behold Trump put the kabash in that arrangement.
Did you perhaps misread what he is saying? He is not talking about a monolithic set of beliefs shared by both parties. He is saying it is healthy to have two parties, with different and contrasting beliefs, policies, values, etc. But when one of those parties is in thrall to a man like Trump, it cannot play that role. He is arguing for a robust diversity of beliefs, values, etc that will compete in the political system. But when one party leaves that competition, and instead indulges the whims of an embittered old man who surrounds himself with crackpot lawyers, spews childish insults, turns on people who were loyal to him, and espouses fairy tale schemes like having Mexico pay for a border wall, and who invites his supporters to engage in violence, then there is no real competition.
rhhardin said...
Self-awareness ought to be brought back into politics
This is very very good…well done, rhhardin.
"But we don't know *anyone* who disagrees with us!"
It's a democracy-threatening problem that the Republican Party is a big tent that welcomes many different views? What a corrupt fraud this Luttig fellow is!
tfw I'm furious that my illusion of opposition to the uniparty is revealed to be part of the uniparty. Stinking plebs.
Luttig is an embarrassment.
There is no Republic party, in his view, because it no longer takes orders from people like him and David Brooks and George Will. There's a Republican party, it's just not the GOB (Good 'Ol Boys) anymore.
Tucker Carlson has given some excellent talks on this subject. He is descended from the elites and even had a rich mother who abandoned him at the age of 6 to become a hippie. I know some people like that. It makes them very conservative. The Country Club set are now mostly Democrats because of abortion. They don't care about things like inflation because they are well off. Even crime is mostly something on the TV news.
Yancy Ward at 10:57. There is a word for that--"collapsitarianism."
@Althouse, brava!
“ Did you perhaps misread what he is saying? He is not talking about a monolithic set of beliefs shared by both parties. He is saying it is healthy to have two parties, with different and contrasting beliefs, policies, values, etc. ”
No. I understand what HE is saying. Whether the elite is truly divided into 2 parties is an interesting question, but my last paragraph assumes it has operated that way. I could see delving into that assumption.
"There is no path to the WH for Republicans with Trump."
News from 2015.
"There is no path to the WH for Republicans with or without Trump."
Corrected for 2024.
Since blogs started there's been a disruption to the "intellectuals" and their sinecures. Sure, many early blogs were professors and such, but they were people who had some ways to influence but were still subject to the gatekeepers in media and publishing. But suddenly, ideas could find audiences and the "experts" were being corrected within hours in comments and reaction posts. This just went even more proletariat with social media.
Sure "bad" ideas get out there but then they'll be slapped around. The problem for the 'elite' is ideas that aren't theirs are getting out there.
A very enlightening summary of the incestuous relationships between 'intellectuals' and the state. Ideas are getting out there and the cash and prizes are drying up.
For this essential acceptance, the majority must be persuaded by ideology that their government is good, wise and, at least, inevitable, and certainly better than other conceivable alternatives. Promoting this ideology among the people is the vital social task of the “intellectuals.” For the masses of men do not create their own ideas, or indeed think through these ideas independently; they follow passively the ideas adopted and disseminated by the body of intellectuals. The intellectuals are, therefore, the “opinion-molders” in society. And since it is precisely a molding of opinion that the State most desperately needs, the basis for age-old alliance between the State and the intellectuals becomes clear.
It is evident that the State needs the intellectuals; it is not so evident why intellectuals need the State. Put simply, we may state that the intellectual’s livelihood in the free market is never too secure; for the intellectual must depend on the values and choices of the masses of his fellow men, and it is precisely characteristic of the masses that they are generally uninterested in intellectual matters. The State, on the other hand, is willing to offer the intellectuals a secure and permanent berth in the State apparatus; and thus a secure income and the panoply of prestige. For the intellectuals will be handsomely rewarded for the important function they perform for the State rulers, of which group they now become a part.
--Murray Rothbard, 'The Anatomy of the State'
Althouse I am curious why you linked to The Guardian; Luttig's interview was with CNN, which certainly has more complete coverage including their own video of the interview.
You made no mention of Luttig's main point which he articulated pretty clearly: "“A political party is a collection and assemblage of individuals who share a set of beliefs and principles and policy views about the United States of America. Today, there is no such shared set of beliefs and values and principles or even policy views as within the Republican Party for America...”
Luttig is right. Does the Republican Party favor entitlement reform? Or not? Does the Republican Party stand for the defense of Ukraine against Russian aggression? Or not? Does the Republican Party have a national abortion policy? What is it? Does the Republican Party have a health care plan for all of the working class Americans who think that Trump is the guy who represents them? Where are leading Republican lawyers on the Trump indictments? Are those indictments the "Weaponization of the Justice Department"? Or are they serious allegations?
Yancey Ward said...
The GOP deserves to be destroyed. ...
...
Then get the fuck out. Right now. (Since "seven years ago" isn't an option.) You fuckheads have been destroying the GOP for about eight years now. You've lost House majorities, lost Senate majorities, lost statehouses; but more than anything, in every place where Trumpism has gotten the chance to dominate -- state delegates, state parties, county GOP committees -- you have wreaked total chaos. Lost winnable seats, destroyed party infrastructure, incinerated donor bases.
You are going to get Trump as the nominee of your imaginary not-GOP party next year. And then we are going to electorally gut him in the general election.
Why not go start your own party? If you don't, we will. Because we don't want any part of your destructive insanity.
The United States doesn’t need two political parties or any political parties.
Luttig was fine with massive debt and endless wars both parties have agreed upon.
It didn’t affect him.
He’s a pool boy for DC elite.
Shorter: The Republican Party is to the Democratic Party as the Washington Generals are to the Harlem Globetrotters.
Boeing lawyer weighs in. Anyone check how well the company he is the chief attorney for is doing? Apparently the 737 Max is a hot mess and making the news way too often.
Trump didn't destroy the GOP. The GOP destroyed the GOP, and that's how you got Trump. The base got tired of being told to fall in line for Bush-wing failures like McCain and Romney, and when they complained were sneeringly told to do the work of getting their own candidate elected. They did, only for the GOP leadership to throw a snit.
@Mr. Wibble, excellent analysis. I saw this personally when Ronald Reagan became the nominee back in 1980 and I was a young(ish) local party official. The level of hatred from “moderate” Republican officials towards Reaganites was amazing. And it was nothing next to the hatred directed towards me, formerly thought to be a moderate, but joining the conservative wing after being open to Reagan’s ideas and happy with his results. But I would like to point out that once elected Ron Reagan set out to rebuild the GOP. Trump — and far too many of his supporters — are happy to fight the GOPe as hard (and maybe harder) than they fight the Dumbocrats. Unwise.
The Harlem Globetrotters could not function without the Washington Generals, either.
But they also could not function, not as they normally do, if the Washington Generals were an effective team who played to win.
The judge sounds like he wants the Repos to function as the Generals. We have certain lifelong republicans here who have more or less said that same thing explicitly.
What the judge can't stand is the Generals functioning as a proper, competent, team that is not satisfied to be a foil to his Globetrotters.
John Henry
"Then, when handed Congress and the WH in 2017, the GOP political class failed miserably. Want to know when the GOP died? Here.
Saying that Trump destroyed the GOP is like watching a spouse walk out the door after years of abuse, infidelity, and public humiliation, only to say to her, "you blew up your marriage."
8/10/23, 11:21 AM
EXACTLY Mr. Wibble. Exactly.
No argument with your observations, Ann.
My argument is the Democratic Party is essentially a crime syndicate at this point. There is really no question that Joe Biden has taken major bribes, some from hostile powers, and the Democratic Party along with the bureaucracy and mainstream media is doing everything in their power to protect him, creating an overt criminal conspiracy. I suppose that counts as sharing a set of values and beliefs, but I don't think that is what the judge has in mind.
The Republican Party is definitely in a state of flux, but the Democratic Party is so corrupt as to be useless.
BothSidesNow said...
Did you perhaps misread what he is saying? He is not talking about a monolithic set of beliefs shared by both parties. He is saying it is healthy to have two parties, with different and contrasting beliefs, policies, values, etc. But when one of those parties is in thrall to a man like Trump, it cannot play that role. He is arguing for a robust diversity of beliefs, values, etc that will compete in the political system. But when one party leaves that competition, and instead indulges the whims of an embittered old man who surrounds himself with crackpot lawyers, spews childish insults, turns on people who were loyal to him, and espouses fairy tale schemes like having Mexico pay for a border wall, and who invites his supporters to engage in violence, then there is no real competition.
8/10/23, 11:42 AM
Now do the Great Divider, Obama and his little elf he has pretending to destroy America today, Bumbling Biden.
Althouse before you post a comment I submitted just a few minutes ago, I owe you an apology. I wrote that you had not included a quote from Judge Luttig when in fact you did include that quote. I wanted you to get this self-correction before you posted that comment from me. And I hope that this comment comes right after my previous one.
Again, my sincere apology to you.
I could have perhaps just deleted my earlier comment when it went up, but in case you replied to it (correcting me, as you'd be right to do), my deletion would not make sense.
More than anything, I stand behind everything else in the comment.
Contemporary populism is a product from the elites. Have you ever noticed who the populists believe the elite are? For them it is entertainers, LGBT+ people, or people who live in urban areas. It is everyone but the actual elite. The word 'elite' is now Orwellian doublespeak for everyone but the elite. For the good news, at least Swiftian wit is alive and well!
If a Dem had wanted to destoy the GOP, what would he have done differently, or better, than Trump has since early 2020?
If they're not complaining about the lack of distinct parties, they're going on about partisanship and polarization.
"Do folks read Truth Social?"
No.
Does Luttig think Trump is the problem here?
Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-KY) has urged House Republicans to avoid impeaching President Joe Biden.
Where is Mitch McConnell's shared beliefs and values with his fellow Republicans in the House? Is Trump in the House? Did Trump make Hunter Biden take the job with Burisma? Did Trump get Biden on the phone to talk about the weather?
Democrats have no problem with impeachments. They set the bar for impeachments far lower than the crimes Joe Biden is now being accused of committing. Impeaching Biden raises the bar back to actual statute crimes. If you don't agree, then change the statutes and make what Biden is accused of doing legal. Show your shared beliefs and values.
Overlapping and converging interests create a virtual reality of a single party.
It seems to me that "democracy" has become like "fascism" in the past 5 years especially.
Not as political concepts, though they could be mutually compatible. I mean how the words are used. Both words have clear, fairly unambiguous meanings. But as George Orwell said about Fascism 75 years ago:
The word Fascism has now no meaning except in so far as it signifies 'something not desirable'.
"Democracy" seems to have no meaning at all other than, to paraphrase Orwell, "Something desireable". Though nobody ever seems to think it is desirable when it goes against them.
Nobody ever seems to be able to explain why they think democracy, as a concept, is a good thing.
Fascism, slavery, genocide can all exist under a democratic government. Had there been a referendum in 1850, all slaves would have voted to end slavery. So no complaints about lack of democracy, right? But a majority, 50% +1, of voters would have voted to continue slavery. And the slaves would have been shit out of luck because "Hey, that's what democracy looks like. You got to vote, you lost, get back in the fields."
In more recent times there was a democratic referendum on gay marriage in California. Gay marriage lost. Did the losers say "Well, that's democracy. Can't be criticized. We have to accept that gay marriage remains illegal." So where are all the supporters of democracy on this issue?
I am not a big fan of democracy. Especially not the way most people wave it around today. Including this judge, apparently.
John Henry
It seems to me that "democracy" has become like "fascism" in the past 5 years especially.
Not as political concepts, though they could be mutually compatible. I mean how the words are used. Both words have clear, fairly unambiguous meanings. But as George Orwell said about Fascism 75 years ago:
The word Fascism has now no meaning except in so far as it signifies 'something not desirable'.
"Democracy" seems to have no meaning at all other than, to paraphrase Orwell, "Something desireable". Though nobody ever seems to think it is desirable when it goes against them.
Nobody ever seems to be able to explain why they think democracy, as a concept, is a good thing.
Fascism, slavery, genocide can all exist under a democratic government. Had there been a referendum in 1850, all slaves would have voted to end slavery. So no complaints about lack of democracy, right? But a majority, 50% +1, of voters would have voted to continue slavery. And the slaves would have been shit out of luck because "Hey, that's what democracy looks like. You got to vote, you lost, get back in the fields."
In more recent times there was a democratic referendum on gay marriage in California. Gay marriage lost. Did the losers say "Well, that's democracy. Can't be criticized. We have to accept that gay marriage remains illegal." So where are all the supporters of democracy on this issue?
I am not a big fan of democracy. Especially not the way most people wave it around today. Including this judge, apparently.
John Henry
rcocean said...
He's absolutely correct that the US cannot function without an opposition party to the Democrats. Look at what's happening:
1) THe DC Republicans are agreeing to Biden DOJ's crazy attempt to Jail the Leading republican candidate for the 2024 POTUS nomination and the ex-POTUS and Biden 2020 opponent. A few have spoken out, but the almost all the Senators/Congressmen have remained silent or support Biden.
2) The DC Senate Republicans have offered no effective oppostion to Biden's radical judges and Cabintet members. Almost every nominee has been fast-tracked and rubberstamped.
3) Congressial and Senate Republicans have offered no opposition to Biden's foreign policy, and almost none to his out-of-control spending.
4) The Senate Minority leader has constantly offered to help Biden pass legislation. Biden's Legislation. Further, no legislation has been filibustered. Instead, the R's have helped the D's pass "Crooks get out jail free" legislation, Gun control, and various other D legislation.
5) The Senate Republican Leadership never criticizes Biden over his open borders policy, and if they go on TV, its to support Biden's military aid to the ukraine, or his various trade/immigration/crime policies that are unpopular WITH THEIR OWN VOTERS.
8/10/23, 11:28 AM
————
1. Please site sources. Who has said what in support of prosecuting Trump?
2. The Republicans would have been able to block Biden’s radical appointments except they do not control the Senate. They would control the Senate if Trump had not denounced his surrogates who discouraged people from voting in the GA runoffs. In addition the Trump candidates in the 2022 Senate races all ran behind other Republicans running for statewide office in every instance. This is on Donald “Ballot Box Poison” Trump.
3. Based on his 2017-2020 record it is quite apparent that Trump supporters are unconcerned about spending. Trump was unconcerned about deficits and additional debt pre-COVID. If one is concerned about spending the last person one should be supporting is Donald Trump.
4. What legislation, except for the “Infrastructure Bill” did McConnell help Biden pass? Remember, boondoggles like the “American Recovery Plan” and the “Inflation Reduction Act” were not able to be filibustered. All passed without a single Republican vote.
5. Except for,aukraine please document where the Senate Republican leadership has sided with Biden.
The hysterical thing about tRump Swabs is that if Trump says something they adopt it uncritically. Trump says to hate McConnell and DeSantis and they are going off the cliff like Okinawans in 1945.
All of this self-righteous tut-tutting over having Donald Trump represent the wishes of half the American voting population. "Oh dear, he is such a plebian. He's so low-brow and icky! How can anyone even think of supporting him? How utterly dreary." Have any of these critics even taken a moment to consider that the democrat party is headed up by Joe Biden? Dear God, their utter lack of awareness of reality is truly astounding! What their mewling complaints boil down to is, "We're so much better than you and your MAGA inclinations. We read The Times and The Post for our information when we're not reading The Atlantic and The New Yorker for our opinions. And we follow Ta-Nehesi Coates on Threads." Screw 'em.
Luttig wants to go back to the 2000s when Republicans cared more about bringing Afghanistan forward into the 16th century while Tranny Uber Alles gained support here.
"I can't help reading between the lines and seeing Luttig's outrage that Trump broke the system in which the elite were thinking up the beliefs and values and principles and policy views and ordinary people were stuck with what was handed to them."
As cliches go, that "elites can't stand to lose control" shtick is way past its sell-by date. There never was some self-ordained group imposing "beliefs and values and principles and policy views" on "ordinary people" -- it was always much messier, lots of pushing-and-shoving for differing agendas. But without the internet, it didn't happen quite so publicly for all to see. It's very difficult today to say what policies or principles "Republican" or for that matter "Democrat" stand for -- the only constant is that they're two teams that can't stand each other. But there is no "elite" club running anything in either party -- lots of internal divisions and fights in both teams, with the will for power sometimes getting the fighting factions in each party to focus their attacks on the other team.
The demographics of the two teams has changed radically over the last 50 years -- Dems were once a blue-collar, labor-focused team but today are mostly a combo of Af-Ams and coastal college+ types, with a large dose of contempt for the 'deplorables' thrown in. Reps were formerly dominated by the small gov't, low tax business guys but today are more downscale on education/income, with all the class resentments that come with it, and less varied on the color scale. Team Dem dominates on the coasts and the big cities; Team Rep in the south and middle and in the less urbanized parts of the country, with the suburbs being the main battle ground. Given the demographic and geographic divides, the teams exhibit some of the cultural preferences that go with their respective territories. But both teams are loosely held together, and it's still very fluid. Ruy Texiera writes often about the fragility of Team Dem, for example.
Trump didn't create that world, and it was broken long before he came around. Johnson and Nixon and Reagan and both Clintons had more to do with breaking it than Trump ever did. But he has definitely advanced the divisions inherent in it while also profiting from it. As always, it's much easier to destroy and tear down; not so easy to build something to replace it.
How is America supposed to have two parties when one party controls the media, the universities, the DOJ/FBI (to the point that you all understand now that's it more like Russia than America in how they pursue regime enemies and how they protect regime allies?)
Sorry, maybe he wants a Washington Generals team?
but that's not real opposition.
You want real opposition, you must fight to remove institutional corruption that allowed partisan capture of key areas in American democracy.
The bureaucracy, the media, federal law enforcement, etc.
rcocean said...
He's absolutely correct that the US cannot function without an opposition party to the Democrats. Look at what's happening:
1) THe DC Republicans are agreeing to Biden DOJ's crazy attempt to Jail the Leading republican candidate for the 2024 POTUS nomination and the ex-POTUS and Biden 2020 opponent. A few have spoken out, but the almost all the Senators/Congressmen have remained silent or support Biden.
2) The DC Senate Republicans have offered no effective oppostion to Biden's radical judges and Cabintet members. Almost every nominee has been fast-tracked and rubberstamped.
3) Congressial and Senate Republicans have offered no opposition to Biden's foreign policy, and almost none to his out-of-control spending.
4) The Senate Minority leader has constantly offered to help Biden pass legislation. Biden's Legislation. Further, no legislation has been filibustered. Instead, the R's have helped the D's pass "Crooks get out jail free" legislation, Gun control, and various other D legislation.
5) The Senate Republican Leadership never criticizes Biden over his open borders policy, and if they go on TV, its to support Biden's military aid to the ukraine, or his various trade/immigration/crime policies that are unpopular WITH THEIR OWN VOTERS.
8/10/23, 11:28 AM
————
1. Please site sources. Who has said what in support of prosecuting Trump?
2. The Republicans would have been able to block Biden’s radical appointments except they do not control the Senate. They would control the Senate if Trump had not denounced his surrogates who discouraged people from voting in the GA runoffs. In addition the Trump candidates in the 2022 Senate races all ran behind other Republicans running for statewide office in every instance. This is on Donald “Ballot Box Poison” Trump.
3. Based on his 2017-2020 record it is quite apparent that Trump supporters are unconcerned about spending. Trump was unconcerned about deficits and additional debt pre-COVID. If one is concerned about spending the last person one should be supporting is Donald Trump.
4. What legislation, except for the “Infrastructure Bill” did McConnell help Biden pass? Remember, boondoggles like the “American Recovery Plan” and the “Inflation Reduction Act” were not able to be filibustered. All passed without a single Republican vote.
5. Except for,aukraine please document where the Senate Republican leadership has sided with Biden.
The hysterical thing about tRump Swabs is that if Trump says something they adopt it uncritically. Trump says to hate McConnell and DeSantis and they are going off the cliff like Okinawans in 1945.
How is America supposed to have two parties when one party controls the media, the universities, the DOJ/FBI (to the point that you all understand now that's it more like Russia than America in how they pursue regime enemies and how they protect regime allies?)
Sorry, maybe he wants a Washington Generals team?
but that's not real opposition.
You want real opposition, you must fight to remove institutional corruption that allowed partisan capture of key areas in American democracy.
The bureaucracy, the media, federal law enforcement, etc.
"He is saying it is healthy to have two parties, with different and contrasting beliefs, policies, values, etc. But when one of those parties is in thrall to a man like Trump, it cannot play that role. He is arguing for a robust diversity of beliefs, values, etc that will compete in the political system."
Notice how Trump changed two major policies that both parties had espoused?
Immigration restriction
Free trade with China
Before Trump both parties espoused those. So its ironic that this commenter thinks Trump is a problem...
Also, the commenter thinks its impossible for Mexico to pay for a wall.
Meanwhile today Biden sent Iran another $6 billion, we have sanctions on Russia, we fund Ukraine's war...
What's "impossible" again?
"But when one of those parties is in thrall to a man like Trump, it cannot play that role. "
Yes, if one of the parties actually comes to stand for something other than the positions that benefit the wealthy donors on both sides, and oh, by the way, the neocons, George W Bush, Dick Cheney and like warmongers like Hillary Clinton? All of them voted for Biden, well if that person stands for the people that the two main parties have abandoned, why they are "in thrall" to him! Imagine being in thrall to the leader who is actually looking out for your economic interests, and is not making noises about bringing back the draft to snatch their children to fight in their wars! It's irrational! Up to the pandemic, which was caused by research funded by Fauci, BTW, working class earnings were on the rise. That had to stop, but quick!
BothSides: "when one of those parties is in thrall to a man like Trump, it cannot play that role"
Two things can be true.
1. The GOP did not adequately represent its actual base, was too beholden to the Country Club set, and went along with many things that harmed America. Trump was the vehicle for expressing discontent with that, he expressed the discontent well, and he introduced competition that wasn't there before.
2. A Trumpian GOP represents only a portion of likely GOP voters, does not draw in non-Trumpists, cannot cultivate a cadre of people to run states, prepare for elections, and take over agencies, and therefore does not function as an organized competitive party. The fixation on Trump weakens opposition to the Dems/left, his clownish conduct makes an easy target, and his outsized role will only reproduce the losses of 2020 and 2022.
In the end, it is a matter of numbers. A majority of GOPers support Trump, for now. A majority of Americans oppose Trump. It is also a matter of ideological division. There is no big-tent alternative to unite opposition to the Dems/left, and anti-woke does not go far enough. Whether any such unity is possible is an open question, but Trump, unfairly persecuted as he is, is a figure of division.
The "shared set of [Republican] beliefs" as evidenced by the Bush Presidencies that were so good to Judge Luttig were disastrous for whole subsets of the Republican base. The hollowing out of the blue collar industrial jobs in the name of free trade, the evolution of the Cold War into endless wars to promote "Democracy!" in the Middle East, the evisceration of Constitutional equal protection by "disproportionate impact" civil rights legislation which denied job advancement and college admission to generations of white non-elites. No wonder Democrats yearn for the days when Republicans like the Bushes could be counted on to appoint the likes of Warren Burger and David Souter.
But Luttig went on to earn $40 million as general counsel to Boeing, so he's all in for the Deep State, err, "Democracy!".
Luttig is a Bushie. And hates Trump. I note he retired from the Bench in 2009 to work for Boeing, so he could make more $$/. He sounds like Barr or Liz Cheney when he disusses Jan 6th. He's a liar and a fake.
THe Gaslighting by these GOPe elite types is amazing. And its why CNN has them on, and The Leftwing Guardian labels him a "Respected conservative". LOL. Go back and see what the Guardian was calling him before: More like "Extreme rightwing".
There was no coup, there was Crisis, democracy was never in danger, there was no explicit law against what Trump wanted to do. Trump never did anything unconstitutional according to explicit meaning of the Constitution. If legal scholars disagree that is there right. If Pence had done what Trump wanted, it would've gone to the SCOTUS and they would've decided. Easy as 123. That's NOT a crisis or an "attack on Democracy".
This constant hysterical, over the top language by our supposed elite, is extremely disheartening. WHile I thought they were wrong, I never thought they were evil. I've changed my mind. They want to win by any means neccessary and will say and do anything to keep their uniparty grip on power.
TDS is real and no one is safe.
"t wasn't a "blunder," it was a premeditated crime."
Remember when Joe Biden voted to destroy the homes of Iraqis, we killed half a million of them, at least, and then Joe got his brother James a 2 billion dollar contract to rebuild those homes?
Here is the pre-mediation: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Grand_Chessboard.
Of course this war monger's daughter is a darling of the Democrats and MSNBC and co-hosts Morning Joe. We want to make sure that the proles are properly indoctrinated!
Readering said: "The outrage is that Republicans look up to a deranged lunatic as their champion. Do folks read Truth Social?"
Even if Trump were a deranged lunatic (which I don't believe), I'd rather have a deranged president with sane policies than a sane president with deranged policies.
Of course, here the choice is clearer than that, because Biden is hardly any more confidence-inspiring than Trump in terms of his character and fitness.
This is all a part of the long range plan to revive the Whig Party.
The Party of Milliard Fillmore lives!!
Mr. Wibble nails it @11:21a.
I'm reading all over, including in the comment section of this blog, "republicans" that sneer at what is Trump running on, because he didn't deliver everything the last time he was President. Trump did run on repealing Obamacare, but so did every other Republican. Despite majorities in both houses of Congress, Trump was never given a chance to sign the repeal, because Republicans didn't share the beliefs and values that the professed to their supporters. They lied, not Trump. If you want to gain my support, explain your failures that have nothing to do with Trump. Don't blame Trump.
Geez, I'm not even a fan of Trump and have never voted for him in a primary, but with the exception of other outsiders like Vivek; the Republican Party is giving me no reason to support any of them over Trump.
As a lifelong registered Independent, I am terrified of the Soviet Democrats taking increasing power, as will happen after the 2024 election.
The Republican Party sucks, but it was (to me) the alternative to the Soviet Democrats.
If Trump destroys the Republican Party, as I suspect he will, it will be their own fault.
Instead of, or at least in addition to, the tag “what Trump did to the GOP,” there ought to be a tag “what the pre-Trump GOP establishment did to itself.” Yes, Prof. Althouse, I know that you hate to proliferate tags, and I understand your reasons and respect them. Nevertheless, consider Obamacare. In the 2016 election the Republican Congresswoman from my district campaigned very hard against Obamacare, as did many other successful GOP candidates including John McCain. In fact I’d say especially John McCain. Thanks to Trump’s election, she (and McCain) had their chances to vote against it — and they didn’t. My Congresswoman justified her vote by posting a bunch of bazz-frazz on her official web site to the effect that the bill wasn’t perfect so she had to vote against it, though she didn’t outline where she thought it fell short nor is there any record of her offering any amendments. And of course McCain’s dramatic pounding of the nail into the coffin is well-known. Luttig and Jonah Goldberg and Bill Kristol and a lot of other Never Trump Republicans have forgotten that — and other — backstabbings, but the party base hasn’t.
Donald Trump in 2015 had three key insights, the first being that Republicans were supporting big business at the same time that major corporations were giving the bulk of their political donations to the Democrats, and this was particularly true of Silicon Valley. Meanwhile he noted that both parties seemed to disdain small businesses, though a thousand small businesses hiring one new employee each is better for the US economy than a single big corporation hiring 300 new employees. Finally, he realized that working Americans, including even the union rank and file (except, of course, for government employee unions like the SEIU and NEA) had been thrown out of the Democrat base and were ripe for conversion. He put together a movement that was more populist than not, and defeated a corrupt and much-despised politician. Unfortunately he lacked the personal political skills, political advisors, and Reagan’s likeability and ability to appeal to ordinary people to deal with the bipartisan angry response to the revolt of the masses.
Does that mean I’ll support Trump? If he wins the nomination then Hell yes, for the general election. But I sure hope someone better emerges from the current candidates.
(For everyone’s information it doesn’t look as though Ron DeSantis will be that alternative. I am startled at the speed with which the DeSantis campaign has imploded. Beating Charlie Crist like a rented mule did not necessarily mean he was a gifted politician, but I had expected better than this. Perhaps DeSantis can figure out what’s wrong — and I’m certain it’s not Trump’s foolish personal attacks — and get back on track. But he sure looks like “put a fork in it” at this moment.)
He's right. There is no Republican party but it is not Trump's fault. He merely exposed it. Now I wish he would go away. I am sick of his whining and lack of the slightest modicum of restraint. And how he keeps getting played by his enemies. Yes, they have virtually all the power, but he does not help himself with his mouth and arrogance. He's a giant dope.
Now we'll have to watch him burn the whole opportunity against Joe Biden down because of his selfishness.
Most mass political movements have to speak in stereo. They have a set of big policy brains who are supposed to set both an ideological course and provide detailed policy directives. The big brains are also tasked with formulating a 60 second version of their high level thoughts so that it can be marketed at the retail level.
Trumpists have a 60 second version of what they want, but without an ideological and policy apparatus, Trumpism will lack cohesion and staying power.
Luttig correctly sees that he isn't wanted. Maybe Luttig isn't the right guy, but the Republicans need people to explain and give direction to the inchoate rage that fuels a segment of the right.
Hobbits just want to grill.
The current United States is a corrupt illegitimate tyranny. It puts its political opponents in jail, it impoverishes its citizens, targets its parents, enables an invasion along its political opponent state borders.
It is illegitimate and if it has to be burned to the ground so be it. Trump is literally THE most law abiding POTUS in my lifetime except maybe Carter and like the tea party before him they are Crucifying him for it.
Every one of the current republicans except a handful are complicit, they can go straight to hell, I’m voting trump.
What if one of the parties has a leader so corrupt that it undermines the reputation of the US at home and abroad, and undermines US foreign policy, due the the fact that this "leader"'s corruption is directly related to a war he is trying to drag us into. That "war" would be WW3, BTW.
Readering said...
"The outrage is that Republicans look up to a deranged lunatic as their champion. Do folks read Truth Social?"
This from the person who voted for the mess we're in now and has claimed publically that he would vote for Biden again.
Do you ever wonder why no one takes you seriously? You are a deeply unserious individual.
Rich said...
@ Ms Althouse
"If you want to make sense of this you really need to define what you mean by such terms as the governing class or "elites"; which "elites" are you referring to. Without such definitions you cannot avoid such a piece degenerating into meaningless waffle.
There is a misconception that everyone who rails against the "elite" is against hierarchy in general, when in practice they just hate the current rulers. Particularly on the right the problem is generally who is in charge, not that someone is."
You fundamentally misunderstand classic liberals and conservatives as well. We want less of what you claim we crave. We rely on our own resources more. I am much more efficient at seeing to my needs and the needs of my environment than any government.
"Republicans need people to explain and give direction to the inchoate rage that fuels a segment of the right."
Donald John Trump.
"There's alot of cheering and self-congratulation about the rise of small donors a decade ago, and now small donors are actually one of the biggest problems for democracy and the GOP..."
--Leftist billionaire funded Jonah "the pride of Goucher college" Goldberg 10Aug23
It doesnt get any more pathetic than that.
Lots of people participating in the process is a "problem" for democracy.
Let that one sink in.
Sceptical Voter's "The Deplorable Party" just might fly.
A lot of the Vichy Republicans here seem to sincerely believe that if we just give in to the Democrats, and nominate one of theirs, just under a different brand, like John McCain, Democrats won't cheat so much in the election, or lie about this person, or demonize them in the media 5X5.
It's too bad DeSantis let the anti-Trump donor class immolate his chances at the presidency *in the future*. Putting Trump in jail is not going to make DeSantis president.
There is no path to the WH for Republicans with Trump. He would need every single Republican and independent vote, and there are untold numbers of Republicans and independents who will never vote for him
"untold".
You probably said the same thing in 2016. Yet he won.
And he increased his votes in 2020.
I suspect that there is no path to the White House at all with any Republican. With Trump at least they will need to steal a lot more votes, which increases the chance the fraud that was likely used in 2020 is even more obvious.
Chuck -
You're not exactly wrong in your listing of the inconsistencies within the Republicans, and the problems with Trump as a candidate are obvious. Even if I think he is unfairly portrayed and interpreted to an extent, there's no way he wins the election and I almost hate to think what would happen if he did somehow win.
But our starting points in perceiving the country's basic problems - the big why's of how we got here (and I regret the apostrophe) - are just so different. For me it's been the bullying sensibilities of the intellectual left, particularly on race, that have taken over so much of life, in spite of the majority of people simply disagreeing with those ideas. Those ideas are doing so much damage. It just strikes me as pure evil, and the frustration has been building for decades.
So in a way, you're right, but you're right about the wrong big questions. Unless you're an enthusiastic member of the dumb, half-blind intellectual left.
I should note: I would actually prefer Trump to not run, because he provides an excuse for government excesses.
But see, I don't think he's the cause of the DOJ allowing Hunter's crimes to lapse the SOL when his Daddy was VP.
Trump didn't cause that.
I think DC is corrupt and has been for a while now...Trump is useful for them to cover up their crimes and of course they wish to return to business as usual.
Dude1394 said...
The current United States is a corrupt illegitimate tyranny. It puts its political opponents in jail, it impoverishes its citizens, targets its parents, enables an invasion along its political opponent state borders.
It is illegitimate and if it has to be burned to the ground so be it. Trump is literally THE most law abiding POTUS in my lifetime except maybe Carter and like the tea party before him they are Crucifying him for it.
Every one of the current republicans except a handful are complicit, they can go straight to hell, I’m voting trump.
8/10/23, 2:26 PM
THIS^^^^^
Lets be clear about what a Traitor Mitch the bitch McConnell is. When the D's rushed through 2 partisan Impeachments of Trump, McConnell NEVER said, "We shouldn't be wasting our time on this nonsense" or expressed concern.
Instead he when Trump was being impeached, McConnell pompously intoned about how the Senate would deliberate and take account all the facts blah blah blah. Mitch the bitch NEVER told Pelosi that: “Impeachment ought to be rare,” “This is not good for the country.”
Same ol' bullshit. Always wagging his finger at other Republicans telling them to NOT fight back and NOT to "retaliate". Because McConnell is fine with the D's destroyng other R's. He doesn't want to fight, unless its for Tax cuts or for Mitch McConnell.
"Lots of people participating in the process is a "problem" for democracy."
I'm sure he meant to say "our democracy". And in that case, he'd be right. It is a problem for "his democracy".
In what universe is Michael Luttig a representative of the of the Republican Party?
==========
Luttig esq appointed judge by Bush Sr. and delayed taking office to help out Clarence Thomas and David Souter proceddings.
my Q to Pence would be >> why not some legal mind from Indiana for alternate 2nd and 3rd opinions on his Constitutional role in election?
Darcy for the win.
In what universe is Michael Luttig a representative of the of the Republican Party?
==========
Luttig esq appointed judge by Bush Sr. and delayed taking office to help out Clarence Thomas and David Souter proceddings.
my Q to Pence would be >> why not some legal mind from Indiana for alternate 2nd and 3rd opinions on his Constitutional role in election?
"The GOP gave us a 20-year war in Afghanistan and the colossal blunder of the Iraq War. "
More American soldiers were killed in Afghanistan during the Obama's two terms in office (eight years) than in George W Bush and Donald Trump's terms in office combined (12 years).
Obama had eight years to end the war, he was after all the Commander In Chief, but for some reason chose not to.
Banned Commenter LLR-democratical and Violent Homosexual Rage Rape Fantasist Chuck: "Why not go start your own party? If you don't, we will."
LOL
Are you really trying to reset your completely exposed faux republican party affiliation?!
Too funny.
Like the Lincoln Pedophile Project types, the Bulwarkian fakers, Max Boot, Peggy Noonan et al, these same schmuck's all Re-Quit the republican party about every 3 months (its hard to come up with bew column topics required by the lefty paymasters) and then ooze back thru some cracks in the floor to lecture everyone else to get out of "their" party!
Its hilarious.
Chick better get "Rich" and lonejustice moving on this one STAT to generate some "spontaneous" "grass roots" backup for his latest laughable rhetorical ploy.
Rusty, I have written here more than once I will vote for Biden against Trump, but not in the primary and not against any other declared candidate as GOP nominee. I get attacked for that by Dems I know. ("DeSantis is worse" etc.)
The Iraq war started with Bush I, was sustained under Clinton, and ended with Bush 2. The second Iraq war started with Obama, including a hundred billion dollar redistribution to Iran, overriding counter-claims against the regime. Today, we live under the legacy of the Nobel Peace Laureate's World War [ethnic] (e.g. Slavic, People of African-Black) Springs... but the bennies are good.
It's too bad DeSantis let the anti-Trump donor class immolate his chances at the presidency *in the future*. Putting Trump in jail is not going to make DeSantis president.
Yes. The "Donor Class" is made up of people who got rich because of ancestors, like Pritzer, or made out like bandits from the finacialization of the economy or were the nerds who slept under their desks to get those stock options.
They think this makes them wise and competent to rule a (formerly) free people. The Theranos scandal should be enough to teach them that wisdom and money are often not connected.
I prefer the term "The Clerisy" to Elites. Somebody did a survey of Harvard freshmen and graduates. The freshmen knew more than the graduates. Harvard would do well to mail a diploma to each successful applicant.
Ann the zoo keeper, throwing bloody fresh meat to willfully ignorant jackals.
Not stupid enough to actually believe this bullshit but smart enough to know her audience will.
rcocean: "Lets be clear about what a Traitor Mitch the bitch McConnell is."
What was Mitch's FIRST move after the republicans won the House majority but before they could take office?
Mitch fast tracked the Biden/Schumer/Pelosi budget so that the new republican congress never got a chance to wield leverageable power over the budget process.
But remember: for the last 50 years, now, and into the future, Trump is the problem. The only problem. Always and forever and as soon as he is gone the "republicans" can get back on the "winning" track!
Hey, remember when the corruptocrats Brennan and Clapper and Comey worked with the Gang of 8 Minus 1 (Nunes) and then McConnell and Ryan and Burr worked with the dems to sideline the guy who knew Schiff and Company were lying thru their teeth (Nunes) and was willing to call it all BS right from the start?
Good GOPe times, good times.
We are so close to returning to the glory days of McCain and Romney and being publicly lambasted by our own candidates once the Deplorables are sent packing!
Readering: "The outrage is that Republicans look up to a deranged lunatic as their champion. Do folks read Truth Social?"
Readering's time would be better spent keeping Joe Biden from showering with adolescent female family members as well as prohibiting Hunter from smoking crack while naked with his underwear only clad underage niece.
But hey, thats just me.
Those sorts of things are quite on-brand these days with the left/LLR-left.
There is a misconception that everyone who rails against the "elite" is against hierarchy in general, when in practice they just hate the current rulers.
Kind of a distinction without a difference here, given that the "current rulers," the ones who set and police social norms and therefore at least domestic public policy, are unelected and not subject to recall.
Also wrt Chuck's observation that Republicans are divided on policy... we know that Democrats are too. A majority of Democrats favor a post-20-week ban on abortion, for instance, last I read (having trouble finding that stat now, butthis, from Pew, shows that 56% of Democrats believe that length of pregnancy should matter in whether abortion is legal or that abortion should be illegal in all cases). There's a great deal of division among Democrats, including Black Democrats, concerning the recent SC decision on affirmative action (among this group, 50% approve or strongly approve that race should be considered in college admissions, 26% disapprove or strongly disapprove, 23% unsure, according to Pew). Democrats are more divided than Republicans on border security (91% of Republicans say it's a high priority vs 59% of Democrats, per Pew). E.g.
I'm reading Sowell's Vision of the Anointed, published in 1993 (to my eternal shame, that I didn't get to it earlier). It holds up shockingly well so far.
Americans are trying to get used to ideological parties. If you're as old as I am, you remember, for example, that passage of Democrat Johnson's Civil Rights legislation of the 1960's depended on Republican support, because too many Congressional Democrats were unreconstructed segregationists. Later, Democrats led the struggle against the Kennedy/Johnson war in Viet Nam. Some of whom, by the way, had been opponents of civil rights.
At the end of the 1980's I thought that formerly "moderate" Republicans would follow Reagan's lead, but Bush didn't do so, and he failed the most obvious test ("no new taxes").
Trump seeks to empower an ideologically populist right movement. That's an important project for the USA to achieve. But is Trump the right person to carry it forward? To me, Trump seems to be too much involved in his own ego. Also, he had his chance for 4 years and couldn't beat the bastards. So, my roll of the dice is for DeSantis.
When I was hanging around the GOP booth at our county fair with my mom and dad in the 1970s, it was the 'Rockefeller Republicans' vs the 'Grassroots'. This battle has been going on for years. The fundamental change has been a slow drift of upper middle class whites, largely Millennials, into the Democrat party, which accelerated sharply after 2008 financial crisis which the GOP in general gave the appearance of bungling. The void is now being filled by non-white working class voters (see any of Ruy Teixeira's recent writing on SubStack) but the old blueblood GOP leadership is extremely uncomfortable with the change, even more uncomfortable than with the occasional revolts among the later-day deplorables (though that wasn't the moniker back then). There's even something to the Democrat charge of Republican racism as the UMC whites that want to run the current incarnation of the Republican party are envious of the ability of the AWFLs to drive the Democrat agenda even though the majority of Democrat non-white voters are significantly at odds with it.
It’s a warning to America.
what kind of warning is it?
It’s a warning to the elite from the elite. Somebody, preferably from the Republican side, please figure out how get rid of the menace or we are doomed.
So Chuck is still pretending he's a Republican?
Guffaw.
MarcusB. THEOLDMAN
As working class people and leaders in manufacturing, what we we supposed to as these two equally strong parties sold our jobs to China and sent out kids to fight wars while laundering our tax dollars? The wheel had to be smashed. And when it was smashed, all sorts of evil things like Epstein’s Island fell out.
I quick Google leads to a tweet by Luttig which, if I read it right, is gushing with praise and adoration for the lately unhinged Lawrence Tribe.
What more do you need to know about the judge.
There is no path to the WH for Republicans with Trump. He would need every single Republican and independent vote, and there are untold numbers of Republicans and independents who will never vote for him
"untold".
You probably said the same thing in 2016. Yet he won.
And he increased his votes in 2020.
More people voted for Trump for president in 2020 than any other man in history, except we are supposed to believe, Joe Biden in 2020. Trump got so many votes in 2020 that the Democrats hadn't manufactured enough votes, so that's why they had to stop counting in four states on election night, so they could manufacture more votes, and had to try and make us believe that more people voted for Biden than Obama or Hillary.
I'm old enough to remember that way back when Donald Trump was a Democrat, the Tea Party, a very mild and innofensive, but undeniably up-and-coming version of the populist sensibilities that Trump now represents, was libeled by the press, held in contempt by the Republican Establishment, and its leaders were deliberately persecuted by Obama's IRS. The Republican Party made some noises but was complicit in allowing the DC Establishment to destroy it as a a movement. John McCain referred to those voters as "Hobbits" and, when his populist VP candidate got too popular, let his hand-picked team of "advisors" destroy her.
Where did Judge Luttig stand back then?
Trump destroying the GOP was what I hoped for when he became a candidate. I wish he had done a more thorough job of it, though.
Luttig has come far in life for someone who doesn't realize that the two major parties are coalitions. What set of beliefs and principles and policy views about the United States of America did Henry Wallace and the Dixiecrats share?
I also rather doubt that the two parties have to be equally strong in order for democracy to function. Though the idea admittedly explains California.
As long as the government permits itself to micromanage even the tiniest details of everyday existence, "swamp" is an overly generous description of the kind of place that will be populated by the degenerates who are attracted to the power available there.
"and that government of the people, by the people, for the people, shall not perish from the earth."
Too late. She's dead, Jim.
Just for the fun of it, here is the American Constitution Society (the liberals' answer to the Federalist Society) writing about then-Judge Luttig in 2005. It was back when Luttig was the conservatives' 'impossible dream' candidate for SCOTUS. A year before he resigned his 4th Circuit Court of Appeals seat (perhaps recognizing that he would never get a SCOTUS nomination because he was such a conservative star and a confirmation fight could not be won).
https://www.acslaw.org/?post_type=acsblog&p=2483
people (here, there, and everywhere) KEEP Saying, that ..
There is no path to the WH for Republicans with Trump. He would need every single Republican and independent vote, and there are untold numbers of Republicans and independents who will never vote for him
I'm NOT going to say that's Not true, BUT!
Could someone make a brief list for me, of repubicans that have gotten MORE people to vote them than Trump has? Shouldn't take too long, 'cause i'm guessing that the brief list will be VERY brief.
Not that it matters. I strongly doubt, that ANY republican, will EVER win national office again.
It's Not who votes that counts.. It's Who Counts the Votes
America is GONE. Wake up and smell the decaying corpse
"Obama had eight years to end the war, he was after all the Commander In Chief, but for some reason chose not to."
Yup. Obama is and was no firebrand, no "leftist," but a solid member of the Washington DC ruling class, which comprises the majority of both major parties. In continuing the Bush/Cheney wars of aggression--and increasing the use of drone bombers--Obama joined them (and Colin Powell and Condi Rice ) as a war criminal and murderer. Trump, actually, can somewhat be commended for at least stating his desire to end the war, but the commendation would really be due if he had actually done so. However, he didn't have the spine (or, perhaps, enough real interest or conviction) to override his generals, so his failure to act in accord with his claimed intent led to four more years of the dismal, pointless, and futile US occupation in Afghanistan, with more people killed that was necessary.
“ 05 PM
Blogger boatbuilder said...
I'm old enough to remember that way back when Donald Trump was a Democrat, the Tea Party, a very mild and innofensive, but undeniably up-and-coming version of the populist sensibilities that Trump now represents, was libeled by the press, held in contempt by the Republican Establishment, and its leaders were deliberately persecuted by Obama's IRS. The Republican Party made some noises but was complicit in allowing the DC Establishment to destroy it as a a movement. John McCain referred to those voters as "Hobbits" and, when his populist VP candidate got too popular, let his hand-picked team of "advisors" destroy her.
Where did Judge Luttig stand back then?”
Very well said. The destruction of the Republican Party started when they allowed the state and the democrat media to destroy and incarcerate the tea party. If it has to be razed to the ground, so be it.
Ann the zoo keeper, throwing bloody fresh meat to willfully ignorant jackals.
Not stupid enough to actually believe this bullshit but smart enough to know her audience will.
Bring it on, Hag. If you had anything substantive to offer, I do you the compliment of believing you would have deployed it.
In our system, someone - theoretically - must and should represent the "underclass." The Marxian "elite" (who score well on tests, comply readily with dogma, and are good at parroting jargon) have abandoned that field because class wasn't working out for them; unfortunately for them, capitalism produces a prosperous and economically mobile middle class, including people emerging from poverty, who stubbornly refuse to be immiserated. So they've moved on to immiserating people on the basis of race, gender, sexual identity, fatness - whatever they can think of that makes people feel that somebody else has got theirs.
It's pretty clear that Democrats don't give a flying duck (deliberate typo) about the working class that is in reaching distance of the middle class, much less the poor. Republicans are not all the way there yet, but - thanks to Trump and others - they're starting to realize that these are people who would actually benefit from the fiscal and social policies we endorse, and that electoral success, if achievable in a setting in which the other side controls way too many of the levers, may be in their grasp. My hope is that we win, and that we the people on the ground can hold us the people in Congress and - I hope - the White House to their promises.
The democrat coalition exists to make the king pins rich.
Not counting Donald Trump, and the reasons for not counting can be seen in many of the comments here, the Republican Party looks to spend at least 20 years out of the Presidency. That’s as long as the 1932-1952 FDR+HST drought, with no guarantees of the drought ending in 2028.
Drago, remind me which ex-president was photographed repeatedly cuddling with his underage daughter about whom he would make sexual references, and married a nude model with published lesbian poses. Give it a rest.
"I get attacked for that by Dems I know. ("DeSantis is worse" etc.)"
Wait! I thought Trump was uniquely evil. That's what justifies crossing the Rubicon and jailing your political opponent. Now you're telling me DeSantis is worse???
Here is my shocked face…
I can't help reading between the lines and seeing Luttig's outrage that Trump broke the system in which the elite were thinking up the beliefs and values and principles and policy views and ordinary people were stuck with what was handed to them.
Bingo.
Reality check: No actual "conservative" is "anti-Trump" the way Luttig is.
You can hate Trump because he's a loser who got his ass repeatedly beat by the Deep State. You can hate Trump because he's desperate to "fight", but not desperate to actually win, and often has no clue HOW to win.
You can be that, and be a conservative.
But if your hatred is based on teh fact that he rejected your program, and brought in a program that actually made life better for ordinary Americans, there's no legitimate grounds for you to call yourself and American conservative.
To fuck off Luttig
Readering: "Drago, remind me which ex-president was photographed repeatedly cuddling with his underage daughter about whom he would make sexual references, and married a nude model with published lesbian poses. Give it a rest."
LOL
Yes, readering is actually trying to equate Joe Biden showering naked with his adolescent daughter which, in her very own words, sexualized her and screwed her up leading ro drug addiction and other psychological problems, with Trump.
Team Groomer would like for us to cease mentioning this uncomfortable fact.
No.
Marcus Bressler: "So Chuck is still pretending he's a Republican?
Guffaw.
MarcusB. THEOLDMAN"
Yes. The routine is to pretend to be a "muh principles" "True Conservative" "republican" that aligns with every democratical policy preference and lauds every lunatic democratical and attacks ANYONE that pushes back against the dems....
....then makes a very public exit from the republican party.....
....then pops back in as if history began anew 15 minutes ago and start the cycle over again.
Its why a Max Boot or a Lincoln Pedophile Project defender George Conway or the leftist billionaire funded Bill Kristol or a Peggy Noonan will pen an oped once every 3 or 4 months dramatically announcing their abandonment of the republican party because the rank and file no longer bows and scrapes before their unearned entitled "leadership" and direction.
Its so very clockwork-like its essentially a political rhetoric/propaganda sundial.
Oh, the seasons have changed again? Time for another "shucks I am just so disappointed these horrible deplorables have forced me to, once again, vote democrat!" column.
The Godfather: "Trump seeks to empower an ideologically populist right movement. That's an important project for the USA to achieve. But is Trump the right person to carry it forward? To me, Trump seems to be too much involved in his own ego. Also, he had his chance for 4 years and couldn't beat the bastards. So, my roll of the dice is for DeSantis."
The "bastards" conceived of, fund and run the DeSantis campaign...and dumped $10M into DeSantis' personal coffers via his book deal (thank you Rupert Murdoch).
So yeah, I dont believe DeSantis would be able to turn those guys inside out.
OK, so what beliefs does the Republican Party have?
Fiscal responsibility? Bush took us from surplus to our first trillion dollar deficit and Trump tripled the deficit while in office.
Free markets? They support trade wars and subsidies.
Personal responsibility? Don't make me laugh.
Being against Democrats is not a belief system.
It's assholes like this, that make us hate the elites, because it shows the contempt they have for US...
Jonah wants the lobbyists and the corportations to decide who we should vote for. Fuck him, and fuck the elite.
Trump 2024, or bust.
Nicholas Fondacaro
@NickFondacaro
·
Jonah Goldberg knocks small-dollar campaign donors:
"Large donors actually have a strategic view about moderation, who can win, who can't. Small donors really are just venting their spleen with their credit card."
Readering said...
"Rusty, I have written here more than once I will vote for Biden against Trump, but not in the primary and not against any other declared candidate as GOP nominee. I get attacked for that by Dems I know. ("DeSantis is worse" etc.)"
You can justify it to yourself all you want. You're still responsible for the mess we as a country are in. It's OK to hate Trump. But to let that hate drive you to impoverish your fellow citizens and censor their voices is criminal.
Now that there are 136 comments and counting, and everyone has had an opportunity to express their immediate reaction to the Luttig interview and the Althouse blog post, I want to just ask what are the set of beliefs that the non-elite/anti-elite fans of Trump hold? Do they have any sort of platform? Do they care about policy?
The essential point, expressed by Althouse in her own words:
I can't help reading between the lines and seeing Luttig's outrage that Trump broke the system in which the elite were thinking up the beliefs and values and principles and policy views and ordinary people were stuck with what was handed to them. It's very nice for the elite to have the subjective experience of a "shared set of beliefs" — to feel affirmed by this appearance of widespread agreement with their ideas. Trump activated the people who didn't really share that set of beliefs, and now the elite is having the loathsome subjective experience of feeling pressure from those insubordinate people.
So what ARE the "set of beliefs" that are shared among Trump's people? If they don't share the set of beliefs of the hated "elites," what is it that they share? Beliefs, policies, programs, etc. It's almost a joke from the start. The GOP never bothered with a party platform for the 2020 general election.
We had a window into this meta-issue, from Trump himself. It was at the North Carolina state GOP convention earlier in the year. I think most of you recall it; I have cited it several times in my comments. It was when Trump made one of his now-standard mentions of "transgender in schools." And the crowd roared its approval. And Trump, amused by the reaction, said that when he is speaking to rally crowds and he mentions "tax cuts," the reaction is minimal. (Trump imitated a sort of polite golf clap.) But, Trump continued, when he raises the subject of "transgender," it brings the house down. It clearly bemused Trump, who laughingly stated that "Five years ago, you didn't know what the hell it ['transgender'] was." The crowd roared again. A standing ovation.
If you don't want to accept my description, here is the video that I have posted previously.
That video was adored throughout Anti-Trump World. Myself very much included. Revelatory, as it came straight from Trump. On a par with Trump's taunting his own supporters with the remark that he could "shoot somebody in the middle of Fifth Avenue and not lose any votes." Who wants to even argue with Trump on either of those points? Certainly not the elites who loathe Trump. Do Trump fans want to argue with Trump?
Judge Luttig, active in Atlanta politics, helped oversee the transformation of the Coca-Cola company into a woke enterprise. Not because he believes this shit, but because they could then weaponize it against "deplorables."
At the end of the day, making big bennies is the real goal of the woke/DEI racket. It's a natural transition from Jessie Jackson's shakedowns. Now corporate, legal, and academic institutions preemptively shake themselves down, while not giving a shit about dividing the country or insulting their workers and customers.
You should see Coke's DEI trainings. Pol Pot would be jealous. Higher level employees are excluded, of course.
MAGA populism didn't destroy the GOP. The CfG, Koch leftitarianism, Gang of Eight etc. destroyed the Party. Democrats take our money and give it to lazy and corrupt grifters: the GOPe answers to leftitaran billionaires and spits on the populist base while doing the same thing.
Every time an illegal alien crosses the border, that's another taxpayer subsidized client for the Koch enterprises energy, building, and food services, on our dime. They might as well admit they're communists driving the middle and working classes out of the GOP to create a communist state that enriches them and impoverished us.
At least the Democrats are honest about that.
Luttig has always been a corrupt rube and yes-man. You're not a conservative if you talk to the Guardian.
The Republican Party has a serious leadership problem. It pays to remember that Ronna McDaniel's uncle is and how much he's not a Republican. Can Mitt Romney win in Utah? That would be something! The issue that's haunting the Republicans right now (and Luttig is part of that problem too) is abortion. You have idiots, like Lyndsey Graham, telling voters if Republicans get power they're going to put a time limit on abortion, nationally. Sorry, the vast majority of the country doesn't want that. I have always said the abortion issue could be over if the extremes were removed and a sensible solution was worked out that favored neither side, pleased few, and was workable. FOr Republicans to win, nationally, they have to convince voters they will do nothing to nationalize the abortion debate. They won't propose any congressional bills that limit abortion and will leave it all up to the states. They will also recommend, at the state level, that the voters will have the final decision on abortion, i.e. time limits etc. WIth the legislature voting on 6 week limits, the voters will eventually have the ultimate say anyway and will punish those who don't provide a rational solution. We need leadership and it's not there. If the Republicans don't deal with abortion, we'll have Democrats everywhere. Not because their ideas are better, not because they'll bring down inflation, but because they won't ease the minds of the young, women voters that abortion won't be nationalized.
Tina Trent said...
...
Luttig has always been a corrupt rube and yes-man. You're not a conservative if you talk to the Guardian.
Lol! When did Luttig "talk to the Guardian"? He did an interview with CNN. The Guardian reported on the CNN interview. Althouse chose to blog the Guardian's story reporting on the CNN interview.
Now, because I think that Trump fans are dumber than I can even imagine, I expect it is possible that the retort might be, "Well, Luttig shouldn't be doing any interviews with CNN either."
Not like Donald Trump.
Or Kevin McCarthy.
Or Ted Cruz.
Or Ron Johnson.
Chuck said...
So what ARE the "set of beliefs" that are shared among Trump's people?
Are you really that stupid Chuck?
1: American gov't policies should be designed for the benefit of the American people
2: When picking between legitimate policies (like how many immigrants to let in) where equal numbers of Americans will be hurt and helped no matter which way you go, pick the way that helps lower income Americans, not the way the helps teh economically better off
3: Don't be racist pigs. A racist is someone who treats people differently based on their skin color
4: Don't censor us
5: If you are born with a penis, your'e a male. if you're born with a vagina, your'e a female. Your feelings do not change that.
Those are the policies that the "Trump people" share, and the scum like Luttig oppose
"and that government of the people, by the people, for the people, shall not perish from the earth."
==========
is it possible to mikstakenly believe 'people' is all same group 3 times?
Sceptical Voter's "The Deplorable Party" just might fly.
========
how about "Deplorabus Unum Party" might catchily fly.
Rusty. 81m votes. Sorry I bothered with you.
Drago. Adjudicated rapist. Deceased wife swore in divorce proceedings he angrily raped her over a bad hair treatment. Of course women not to be trusted what they say or write....
That last paragraph by the Professor reminded me of why I continue to visit this blog even when I disagee vehement!y with her.
She says it all there.
Another problem for Republicans transcending elitism is stupidity.
For example: There is no need for a national abortion law. Support for Ukraine is uncalled for by any reasonable foreign policy consideration. Impeaching Biden in exchange for Kamala is folly.
In each case there are better, politically advantageous alternatives that Republican elites are evidently too stupid to see - with the possible exception of impeachment.
Hey, Comet Ping Pong Pizza is closed. Must have burned the Epstein client list.
Readering said...
"Rusty. 81m votes. Sorry I bothered with you."
"81m votes." Sure. I totally believe you. No bother at all.
Readering: "Drago. Adjudicated rapist."
LOL
Joe Biden's own daughter adjudicated him.
Rusty, kinda missing the point. Whatever the number, calling us all criminals is something a loon says. Bye.
Luttig's timing was coordinated to coincide with democratical groups that are currently petitioning Secretary of States in 9 blue states to remove Trump from the ballot.
The dem lawfare/GOPe alliance continues apace.
A marked ballot is not the same thing as a vote.
Drago said...
Luttig's timing was coordinated to coincide with democratical groups that are currently petitioning Secretary of States in 9 blue states to remove Trump from the ballot.
The dem lawfare/GOPe alliance continues apace.
Thank you, sir, for raising this important issue. It is one that merits much more blogging by Althouse, now that you mentioned it.
The article is THIS PENN LAW REVIEW ARTICLE, authored by two current card-carrying Federalist Society activist lawprofs, William Baude (University of Chicago) and Michael Stokes Paulsen (University of St. Thomas School of Law). Titled, "The Sweep and Force of Section Three," the abstract states in part (excerpt respecting the copyright of the original and the Althouse blog):
Section Three of the Fourteenth Amendment forbids holding office by former office holders who then participate in insurrection or rebellion. Because of a range of misperceptions and mistaken assumptions, Section Three’s full legal consequences have not been appreciated or enforced. This article corrects those mistakes by setting forth the full sweep and force of Section Three.
...
...And in particular, it disqualifies former President Donald Trump, and potentially many others, because of their participation in the attempted overthrow of the 2020 presidential election.
So, yeah. There's a serious argument from within the ranks of the Federalist Society that Trump is right now disqualified from service as President.
Drago asserts that there is now a Democratic lawfare/GOP establishment alliance to take down Trump. I think Drago is right. I hope he is right. I'd like to see the alliance garner much more widespread support within the Federalist Society; more support from the combined Democratic and Republican and libertarian-leaning donor classes.
So Trump lost to Biden in 2020. Trump will get the GOP nomination by doing all of the increasingly-divisive things he has done all along. More trials scheduled for 2024 than many career trial lawyers. Going up against a DoJ that has a 90%++ success rate at trial. And so the losing 2020 candidate gets indicted and perhaps convicted of multiple felonies, and thinks that will help him win the next election?!?
2024 will have more abortion issues on state ballots. More redistricting commission proposals. More popular, turnout-promoting socially progressive ballot proposals of all kinds. More ways to beat this current, Trumpist, losing brand of Republicans.
We're going to gut Trump in 2024. And then we're going to rub it in. While Trump gets sentenced.
Thanks for playing.
You can keep going.
- Support vouchers so that poor urban kids do not grow up to be feral.
- Do not allow multi-corporations to ship jobs overseas to save a little bit of cost.
- Secure the borders and decide how many to allow to immigrate. Decide that based on unemployment and the ability of the country to assimilate.
- Tear to the ground the corrupt DOJ/FBI as it is current instituted.
- Get RID of the patriot act, yesterday.
- Do NOT start another foreign war that you expect the country boys to go fight for you and your rich children.
- Stop the insane destruction of our energy policy, which has given us almost 30% inflation.
- Stop illegally using social media to censor americans.
- Stop grooming young children.
- Stop mutilating young children.
- Stop forcing young children to be in the same dressing room as a guy with a penis and testicle.
- Stop damaging girls by forcing them to compete against men, thereby losing educational, sporting opportunities.
- Get rid of the civil service act that allows the federal government employees to bid up their pay and then give it to politicians.
- Stop having federal jobs be lifetime pensions AND no chance of unemployment.
Just a few off the top of my head.
"Blogger Chuck said...
We're going to gut Trump in 2024. And then we're going to rub it in. While Trump gets sentenced.
Thanks for playing.
8/11/23, 5:04 PM"
All while the democrats completely destroy any semblance of justice in this country. As is the case of tyrants and communists, the ends always justify the means.
Hey Chuck: try responding to my policy points. No, really, just try.
Readering said...
"Rusty, kinda missing the point. Whatever the number, calling us all criminals is something a loon says. Bye."
You voted for this mess. Your solution is more mess. And you're calling me a loon?
Sure. Seeya.
2024 will have more abortion issues on state ballots. More redistricting commission proposals. More popular, turnout-promoting socially progressive ballot proposals of all kinds. More ways to beat this current, Trumpist, losing brand of Republicans.
And what would a Chuck "winning" Republican mean when they can only win by agreeing with all those Democrat, "socially progressive" positions? Why not just vote Democrat forever, Chuck? It sounds like you support all their policies?
Making the possibly mistaken assumption that "Chuck" is a Republican, what do you get from a non-Trump GOP that wins with Chuck-think? Tax cuts? Spending cuts? Entitlement reform? Is this just more of the "Fiscally Conservative, Socially Liberal" BS that was popular for a while in the 90's?
Because that world is as dead as John McCain.
LLR Chuck is beginning to sound a little power-mad, like he’s frothing at the mouth.
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