August 30, 2023

"[After conceding] in two stipulations... that he had made false statements when he accused the election workers... Mr. Giuliani later sought to explain..."

"... that his stipulations were solely meant to get past a dispute with Ms. Freeman and Ms. Moss about discovery evidence in the case and move toward dismissing the allegations outright. But Judge [Beryl A.] Howell, complaining that Mr. Giuliani’s stipulations 'hold more holes than Swiss cheese,' took the proactive step of declaring him liable for 'defamation, intentional infliction of emotional distress, civil conspiracy and punitive damage claims.'"

61 comments:

Rich said...

It was clear to me at the time of the infamous Four Seasons press conference, held between an adult bookstore and a crematorium, that the guy didn't know whether he was coming or going.

As Dickens has Jacob Marley's ghost say in A Christmas Carol, "I wear the chain I forged in life; I made it link by link."

tim maguire said...

Bad lawyering? How could he make a stipulation that gave the suit away?

Brian said...

You can defame a government employee in the course of their duties? Are they not government employees? They were certainly performing a government function.

Can I say a Senator has rocks for brains because of how he voted? What about if I put it in a cartoon?

If I ran for election Board in this locale could I say negative things about how the previous Board ran the past election? Or is that defamation?

One thing is for sure, we sure do like to defame the First Amendment in this country.

I suppose if they were volunteers they have a private citizen argument to be made, but then again they put themselves in the public sphere by working in a government capacity.

Enigma said...

Giulani's dripping hair dye press conference did more to undermine Trump's election credibility in 2020 than anything Trump himself said or did. Elderly Giuliani might well have been right, but when your strike a king (or strike the deep state) you must kill him or kill the deep state.

Rabel said...

"proactive step"

Fuck these people.

traditionalguy said...

Good luck, Rudy. A Fulton County state court jury will be 100% black with Token Whites that must please the black culture they live among.

Clyde said...

From Wikipedia:

"In that same year [2018], Howell became the supervising judge for the grand jury working for special counsel Robert Mueller's investigation into Russian interference in the 2016 United States elections. On October 25, 2019, she ruled in favor of the House Judiciary Committee, which had sought grand jury materials from the Mueller investigation, finding their impeachment inquiry into President Donald Trump to be a judicial proceeding. Justice Department attorneys had previously asserted that congressional investigators had "not yet exhausted [their] available discovery tools,” arguments Howell said "smack of farce," as the administration had openly stated it would stonewall the investigation."

Yeah, she sounds like a neutral arbiter who will call balls and strikes right down the middle. /sarcasm

Owen said...

Something is rotten in the state.

Wait: did I just open myself up to a defamation suit?

Insanity.

Leland said...

Ah, but when Gen. Flynn, who at the time was a government employee, was defamed by the FBI and many others; he was prosecuted by the Judge even after the defamation was admitted by the FBI. We no longer have justice. We have a political system that punishes opponents for mere opposition.

Michael K said...


Blogger Enigma said...

Giulani's dripping hair dye press conference did more to undermine Trump's election credibility in 2020 than anything Trump himself said or did. Elderly Giuliani might well have been right, but when your strike a king (or strike the deep state) you must kill him or kill the deep state.


I am learning about this phenomenon we are seeing. It is called "Mass Formation Psychosis." The link is to an interview with a psychologist who explains it. For examples, he quotes the French Revolution, Nazi Germany and the Iran Revolution in 1979.


Bob Boyd said...

Irrespective of this case, it's ridiculous and unacceptable we have an election system that can't quickly and irrefutably prove an honest process and a legitimate outcome.
There's only one reason for it and we all know what that reason is.

M said...

If he can be held legally responsible for this can Democrat politicians be held legally responsible for defaming conservative citizens by calling them racists? How about journalists?

Dude1394 said...

The illegitimate government of the United States continues to march towards tyranny.

Gadsen indeed.

Owen said...

Michael K @ 12:27: Good on you for the link to Mattias Desmet. I discovered him a while ago and was impressed. He makes a lot of sense (it's almost self-evident but somehow I had not been thinking of things in those terms: Covid Lockdown really lit it up) and he explains things well.

As a society we are in some deep kimchi here.

Rabel said...

"...can proceed to a trial where damages will be set."

That is a intentional effort to lead the casual reader to infer that there will be a jury trial on the merits of the case and to bury the shocking fact that the judge intervened and issued a guilty verdict on her own.

Mike (MJB Wolf) said...

Leland said...
Ah, but when Gen. Flynn, who at the time was a government employee, was defamed by the FBI and many others; he was prosecuted by the Judge even after the defamation was admitted by the FBI. We no longer have justice. We have a political system that punishes opponents for mere opposition.
###

Yep. They REFUSE to see it right before their eyes. Igna actually said we are "politicizing crimes" by defending Trump from the Stasi Prosecutions. Let that sink in. They can't even acknowledge the historical record. You can see our hostess growing more frustrated by the willful blindness, willful ignorance.

rhhardin said...

If accused, the election worker has to defend herself. That's what election monitoring is about.

Rich said...

The “find out” part of this story arc has been immensely satisfying. Sad that Giuliani sold his reputation and the rest of his life to a sore loser. He's going to need a lot more Bedminster fundraisers to pay off his personal legal debts.

Rich said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
tim in vermont said...

This is how the soft power of the United States collapses. Our country is now a global joke, we are heading the way of Greece, or Ukraine, or wherever it is that corruption is the way of getting through the day, and the rest of the world knows it.

With the soft power goes the hard power, as half of Americans simply stop believing in our government, and sure, a country has a lot of ruin in it, and it took the USSR decades to collapse, but we have our Brezhnev now, and we are on our way. Joe Bide will be long dead, maybe even Barrack Obama, who set our country on this course by utterly corrupting the DoJ, but the United States is just one more corrupt shithole now.

WWIII Joe Biden, Husk-Puppet + America's Putin said...

The corrupt left seek to destroy.

Iman said...

I thought the judge’s name was familiar, Clyde.

One thing is clear: our justice system is riddled with shitbirds and one is justified in saying they aren’t all appearing before the bench. A lot of them sit in judgement.

Iman said...

Was that enigma or Omar Little @12:01pm?

Jake said...

Default judgment as the result of discovery abuses happens sometimes.

tim in vermont said...

So he doesn't get to defend himself in court. He's just guilty now and must pay? Isn't truth a defense in such cases. I guess he will never have the opportunity to explore the facts in a court of law. This is why our courts are a joke. Our system is so corrupt, and they are all in on it.

"If that man is elected, we'll all hang from nooses!" - Hillary Rodham Clinton overheard by somebody who should not have been in the room.

Mike Petrik said...

The judges’s assertions are plausible only if he is tendentiously inserting the adverb “knowingly” before the adjective “false.”

Robert Cook said...

"I am learning about this phenomenon we are seeing. It is called 'Mass Formation Psychosis.' The link is to an interview with a psychologist who explains it. For examples, he quotes the French Revolution, Nazi Germany and the Iran Revolution in 1979."

The mindless adoration by so many of the crude and seedy grifter Trump is the next notable example of "Mass Formation Psychosis."

Dave Begley said...

A total fuckup by Rudy or his lawyers.

stlcdr said...

A hammer used by the corrupt state.

Old and slow said...

I had heard about the hair dye press conference but never seen it until today. That was devastating.

Michael K said...

He's going to need a lot more Bedminster fundraisers to pay off his personal legal debts.

That's what you creeps want to happen. The process is the punishment. Overcharging and making defense impossible are why black males are going to vote for Trump over the 20% in 2016

Mutaman said...

tim in vermont said...

" So he doesn't get to defend himself in court. He's just guilty now and must pay? Isn't truth a defense in such cases. I guess he will never have the opportunity to explore the facts in a court of law. This is why our courts are a joke. Our system is so corrupt, and they are all in on it."

Granting default judgment against a party who fails to obey orders granting discovery is pretty basic stuff.

boatbuilder said...

Litigants make stipulations that certain things are true "for purposes of this motion" or "for purposes of this argument" all the time--it's a "demurrer" or a way of taking the position that "even assuming x is true, the other side doesn't have a case." It doesn't make the stipulation true or binding, except with regards to the specific motion or matter at issue.

It looks to me like Judge Howell is playing "gotcha" here. If so, what a gross corruption of the legal system.

Buckwheathikes said...

If you're keeping score at home ... al Queda won.

WWIII Joe Biden, Husk-Puppet + America's Putin said...

Election workers:

"He hurt my feelings"

Putinesque Democrats - He needs to pay with his life.

Michael K said...

The mindless adoration by so many of the crude and seedy grifter Trump is the next notable example of "Mass Formation Psychosis."

Comrade Stalin would be so proud of you. One more example that Desmet uses is the Russian Revolution. You would qualify as one of the psychotics.

Inga said...

“The mindless adoration by so many of the crude and seedy grifter Trump is the next notable example of "Mass Formation Psychosis."”

Indeed so.

Mutaman said...

Leland said...

"Ah, but when Gen. Flynn, who at the time was a government employee, was defamed by the FBI and many others; he was prosecuted by the Judge even after the defamation was admitted by the FBI. We no longer have justice. We have a political system that punishes opponents for mere opposition.'

This might set a new high in gibberish.

Mutaman said...

Hunter Biden's tax payer funded Hooker said...

"Election workers:

"He hurt my feelings"

Read the Complaint. It alleged a lot more than "He hurt my feelings"

jim5301 said...

Yes Tim truth is a defense. You are one of 40 people in the world who believes Ruddy’s lies. 39 of them are regular commenters here.

Mutaman said...


Dave Begley said...

"A total fuckup by Rudy or his lawyers.'

I think that at one point in time Rudy was a pretty decent lawyer and ran a decent office as US attorney for the Southern District. But he has gone totally off the rails. This is what happens when you screw around with discovery. I suspect it's due to the alcohol.

Not sure what his attorneys were thinking.

Mutaman said...

Ted Goodman, political advisor to Mayor Rudy Giuliani, called for the decision to be reversed.

"This 57 page opinion on discovery—which would usually be no more than two or three pages—is a prime example of the weaponization of the justice system, where the process is the punishment," said Goodman in a statement to Politico."

He's complaining about the length of the decision? Nuff said.

Rusty said...

Robert Cook said...
"I am learning about this phenomenon we are seeing. It is called 'Mass Formation Psychosis.' The link is to an interview with a psychologist who explains it. For examples, he quotes the French Revolution, Nazi Germany and the Iran Revolution in 1979."

The mindless adoration by so many of the crude and seedy grifter Trump is the next notable example of "Mass Formation Psychosis."
Well, gee, Robert, You follow Marx like a blushing school girl.

Michael K said...

Boy the lefties are taking over comments. Good thing we have Discord.

Iman said...

Muttman the Mincer.

Jamie said...

The (1) mindless (2) adoration by so many of the crude and seedy grifter Trump

(1): Ask a bunch of Trump supporters why they support Trump. They tend to have an answer, don't they? It may not be a deep analysis, but there will be a reason: "He fights." "He understands my problems." "He shares my values." It could even be [shrug] "He was/will be the Republican in the race," suggesting that the person considers party affiliation important for reasons they can then provide. So, not mindless.

(2): Ask a bunch of Trump supporters to characterize the reason for their support. How many will say "love" or "adoration"? Sure, some will. But most? You might get "admiration for his spirit," "appreciation for his apparent agreement with me on important issues," "entertainment" - and you would surely get a lot of "reluctance but he's better than the alternative, for the following reasons."

How about Biden "supporters"? Can they list reasons for their support of Biden, besides "he's not Trump"? (Some will say "Because he's the Democrat," and I'll give them that in the same way I'll acknowledge the same reasoning from those who support Trump because of the ticket he's running on.) And do they even have a feeling about Biden? Whereas they certainly do have a feeling about Trump: they hate him rabidly and will freely admit it.

So with regard to this mass formation psychosis, you've got the object of it correct, but not the subjects.

Interested Bystander said...

They are out to ruin anyone associated with Trump so no one else will ever try to take on the swamp again.

Rabel said...

"New York’s attorney general asked a judge for a partial summary judgment against Donald Trump in her $250 million lawsuit accusing the former president of widespread fraud."

Like clockwork.

wendybar said...

Michael K said...
Boy the lefties are taking over comments. Good thing we have Discord.

8/30/23, 9:22 PM

Exactly.

tim in vermont said...

"If that man gets elected, we will all hang from nooses." - Hillary Clinton.

"The best way to keep your opponent from badmouthing you, is to keep your fist in his mouth." - Bill Clinton.

Jeff said...

The "deep state" or whatever you want to call it -- I tend to prefer the basic 60's term "The Establishment" -- will never forgive Rudy for cleaning up New York City. He showed that by simply enforcing the laws on the books and using modern innovation, any city can bloom. As American cities disintegrate further, the need to destroy Giuliani increases.

Robert Cook said...

"Well, gee, Robert, You follow Marx like a blushing school girl."

Yes, I've always enjoyed the Marx Brothers tremendously! (On the other hand, as a child, I always preferred Mattel Toys over the toys made by Marx.)

lonejustice said...

Michael K said...

"Boy the lefties are taking over comments. Good thing we have Discord."
-----------------

Hardly. Most commentators here are right-wing conservatives, even though Althouse is not one. Although I disagree with almost everything the left-wingers post here, I'm still glad that they feel free and welcome to comment. If nothing else, it keeps this blog from turning into an echo chamber.

Jamie said...

"The best way to keep your opponent from badmouthing you, is to keep your fist in his mouth." - Bill Clinton.

I try not to be this crude generally, but... are we sure he said "fist"? The effort from the left not just (or perhaps "not even") to win the public debate but to silence all questions or skepticism about their vociferously stated views suggests a desire to dominate and humiliate.

Jamie said...

I agree with lonejustice about the presence of our fellow comments from the other side here. Glad you persist, guys.

We on our side like to think we know your side's views and can at least articulate, if not understand, your reasons for holding them, but I know that I for one don't love going to venues where it really is an echo chamber (but on the left) to get that information. I appreciate it very much when you go to the trouble not just to state your opposition to things of the right/conservatism but to detail your opinions, and I try always to engage with those details - I'm sure sometimes with more success than other times.

Rusty said...

lonejustice said...
Michael K said...

"Boy the lefties are taking over comments. Good thing we have Discord."
-----------------

"Hardly. Most commentators here are right-wing conservatives, even though Althouse is not one."
Wrong. Most commenters here are classic liberals. Ms. Althouses political leanings are hers to guard. Hence the,"cruel neutrality".
Be on topic. Be concise. or be funny.

Rusty said...

lonejustice said...
Michael K said...

"Boy the lefties are taking over comments. Good thing we have Discord."
-----------------

"Hardly. Most commentators here are right-wing conservatives, even though Althouse is not one."
Wrong. Most commenters here are classic liberals. Ms. Althouses political leanings are hers to guard. Hence the,"cruel neutrality".
Be on topic. Be concise. Be able to defend your opinion. Or be funny.

Rusty said...

lonejustice said...
Michael K said...

"Boy the lefties are taking over comments. Good thing we have Discord."
-----------------

"Hardly. Most commentators here are right-wing conservatives, even though Althouse is not one."
Wrong. Most commenters here are classic liberals. Ms. Althouses political leanings are hers to guard. Hence the,"cruel neutrality".
Be on topic. Be concise. Be able to defend your opinion. Or be funny.

Dude1394 said...

The fbi takes your phone, computer and every other digital device. Then they fine you for not providing them information about something. Nevermind they have stolen all of that information from you.

Sounds a lot like the suit against trump for NOT hiring illegals for jobs that the government will imprison you for hiring illegals.

Nice.

Dude1394 said...

Good grief i completely inserted trump for musk. I have to assume it is because they are both being persecuted by the corrupt United States government.

alanc709 said...

Anyone that thinks the commentators here are "right-wing" must be awfully far on the left.