Althouse: “Where the Titan submersible was found — 1,600 feet from the bow of the Titanic — and the size of the debris field indicates that the vessel imploded….”

June 22, 2023

“Where the Titan submersible was found — 1,600 feet from the bow of the Titanic — and the size of the debris field indicates that the vessel imploded….”

The NYT reports.

66 comments:

Rt41Rebel said...: They died doing what they loved.; 6/22/23, 2:55 PM
Leland said...: The hubris of the OceanGate CEO will now hamper other innovators like him, because he refused to do proof testing. Worse, people might confuse what SpaceX is doing to what OceanGate did. SpaceX is going beyond proof testing and testing to failure. That tells an engineer where the system fails, it just where it might operate safely. Rush didn’t even test to operation safety limit and paid the price. He didn’t do this for the appreciation of youthful innovation. He did it to save time and money.

Expect calls for regulation, when in fact the regulation is already rigorous if you follow it.

Sad that 4 others loss their life, but they too had their own hubris.; 6/22/23, 2:59 PM
rhhardin said...: The narrative is cut short at act IV of the coverage, just past hope against hope.

On to the coverage of the families on the women's networks.; 6/22/23, 3:00 PM
planetgeo said...: Born of the same name. Died of the same hubris and design flaws. Rest in peace together.; 6/22/23, 3:11 PM
traditionalguy said...: A Product Liability case. But who does the lawyer get to testify as the “expert witness “? The Judges appointed by GOP Presidents and Governors will throw out the case because the expert witness is not good enough.; 6/22/23, 3:12 PM
YoungHegelian said...: As awful as the end was, it was a fast and merciful death compared to slow suffocation.

May they rest in peace until that day when the sea shall yield up her dead.; 6/22/23, 3:17 PM
Big Mike said...: From Ben Dreyfuss writing at https://www.calmdownben.com :

But one of the defining characteristics of normal people is that our empathy machines, fortunately for society, are not so singularly transactional. We care about people even when it isn’t immediately obvious that there is something in it for us.

The normal people on Monday did what the normal people do. But the abnormal people didn’t do that.

They heard the news, read the stories, took in all of the information that made you sad, and their first reaction was: anyone who can afford a $250k tourist trip deserves to die. …

Because when these thousands of lunatics made the mistake of lending voice to thought, a lot of normal people recoiled in horror and said, “What the hell is wrong with you?” The abnormals then decided to double down on the widespread appraisal that they are the baddies. They went deeper into the crevasse! They argued that the passengers deserved to die more, and they argued it louder. Heads on pitchforks because capitalism kills! These rich [deleted] haven’t stopped capitalism from killing people, so it’s good that they have been reclaimed by the sea!; 6/22/23, 3:33 PM
Quaestor said...: OceanGate directly asked for this by trashing 50-year-old ex-Navy guys, white or whatever, with 20-plus years of submarine experience for "inspiration". (Inspiration, btw, is a 20-something coed-type with a ring through her nose and a TikTok upload in progress.) They used to have a 50-something retired submariner on staff, but they canned his ass for pointing out that real submarines aren't made of carbon fiber.; 6/22/23, 3:34 PM
chickelit said...: CEO Rush deserves about as much public sympathy as J. Bruce Ismay did. His very public racist and ageist comments—not to mention his apparent disdain for the military are pure hubris. An investigation of his company should follow, with an emphasis on safety corner-cutting. This sort of tragedy might have been prevented.; 6/22/23, 3:39 PM
gilbar said...: so.. How much, did all this cost ME? for the Coast Guard, etc?
$1Million? 2? 4? 8? 16?; 6/22/23, 3:47 PM
Will Cate said...: We were misled by the ongoing news reports: "They have X much air left" ... "We detected the sound of knocking" ... etc. Can't fault people for hoping, but none of that was true. In the end, what was most likely to have happened all along did happen.; 6/22/23, 3:59 PM
Caroline said...: I Hope it was instantaneous. May they rest in peace.; 6/22/23, 4:12 PM
MayBee said...: The experts say it would have been mercifully fast, they wouldn't have even known it was happening. Which is good. Rest with the rest of the Titanic casualties. It's so sad, but an interesting way to die.; 6/22/23, 4:19 PM
Owen said...: I believe that an implosion at that depth (1,000's of PSI?) would compress the air (PV = nRT, and as PV --> very large, T --> very high) and heat the contents to thousands of degrees.

This probably happened in less time than it takes for the nervous system to register the event.

Prayers up.; 6/22/23, 4:24 PM
Owen said...: The Omni Calculator for Gay-Lussac's Law (P1/T1 = P2/T2) is handy here.

Starting cabin temperature: 75 F. Starting cabin pressure 15 psi.

Ending cabin pressure: 6000 psi. Ending cabin temperature: 213,000 F.; 6/22/23, 4:39 PM
Blastfax Kudos said...: Not sure why they didn't enlist the help of Disney's new black Ariel. The PR from saving a sunken ship in real life might have helped them save Disney's sinking ship at the same time. Two for the price of one.; 6/22/23, 4:42 PM
Bob Boyd said...: Maybe they were banging on the hull to signal SOS and hit it a little too hard one too many times and THPPPPT!; 6/22/23, 5:08 PM
tim in vermont said...: The Navy heard it implode right when it happened, per the WSJ. But I guess they do have to keep their secrets, go through channels, etc.; 6/22/23, 5:09 PM
William said...: I guess it was a quick death. Not the greatest of God's blessings, but a blessing....There's a kind of reverse Darwinism that goes on. There are some deaths that are only bestowed upon the bravest, most imaginative, and richest people on earth.; 6/22/23, 5:14 PM
Michael K said...: James Cameron, who created the movie "Titanic" has done these deep dives, including one to the bottom of the Marianas Trench at 27,000 feet. He designed the craft himself he says. The implosion is what happens when the pressure hull fails in any submarine including the 52 lost in WWII. Muc=sh Morton's sub, Wahoo, was found in shallow water in the Perouse Strait a few years ago but most went deep when sunk.; 6/22/23, 5:30 PM
lonejustice said...: chickelit said...

CEO Rush deserves about as much public sympathy as J. Bruce Ismay did. His very public racist and ageist comments—not to mention his apparent disdain for the military are pure hubris.
-------------

OceanGate CEO Stockton Rush's donations over the years leaned heavily towards Republican candidates.; 6/22/23, 5:32 PM
Lem the artificially intelligent said...: An implosion connotes a major design flaw.; 6/22/23, 5:47 PM
re Pete said...: "News came over the wires

And struck with deadly force

Love had lost its fires

All things had run their course"; 6/22/23, 5:50 PM
Lem the artificially intelligent said...: Koby took his daughter on her final helicopter ride.

Exit question: Should the rich and famous leave their kid home?; 6/22/23, 5:52 PM
Barbara said...: Based on the news coverage, I was thinking they were going to die a slow, horrible death due to lack of oxygen. So I suppose a quick death from an implosion is preferable. Rest in peace.

But what did home base know and when did they know it?; 6/22/23, 5:53 PM
Gusty Winds said...: chickelit said...An investigation of his company should follow, with an emphasis on safety corner-cutting.

First. Thank God it was an implosion and not a slow death. I wish as much effort was put into saving ships full of poor migrants that sink so western Europe can import cheap labor. It's all a hypocritical shame.

But...the video going around of the CEO saying they don't hire "50 year old white guys because they're not inspiring" is woke going broke to the Nth degree. I saw also, some reporter decided at the last minute not to get on the vessel. Photo I saw of the OceanGate engineering crew looked like the pre-fired marketing department at Twitter 1.0.

Sadly, more of this will happen, even to billionaires, as diversity matters more than achievement and qualification. It will happen in medicine, air travel, etc...

It's why rich people started requesting "unvaccinated" pilots. What I can't figure out, is why these billionaires didn't insist on the same safety. Maybe they felt invincible. Like Icarus.

I don't have the money to visit the Titanic wreckage. Don't really care. But, if I did get to go I'd ask, "Did Elon Musk help build this ship, or some woke PhD at the University of Wisconsin"?; 6/22/23, 5:59 PM
JRoberts said...: As I think about this unfortunate story, I also find myself thinking of other past situations from mountain climbers getting stranded to tourists thinking they can just walk up to wild animals to touch them and get a selfie.

We’ve become a “Disneyfied” culture so overexposed to CGI, IMAX, ride simulations, etc., we feel prepared for any adventure while thinking we’re immune to the risks involved.; 6/22/23, 6:27 PM
tcrosse said...: In the submarine Navy they talk a lot about Crush Depth. Well, so long and thanks for feeding the fish.; 6/22/23, 6:53 PM
Narayanan said...: Owen said...
The Omni Calculator for Gay-Lussac's Law (P1/T1 = P2/T2) is handy here.
========
r u saying imploding =>>> no leakage?
with leakage there is no pressure differential!; 6/22/23, 6:54 PM
WWIII Joe Biden, Husk-Puppet + America's Putin said...: If someone offered me 250K to take a trip 2 miles beneath to see a ship wreck - I'd say "no thank"
Who cares about a shipwreck?

Esp. after we've all seen the images, footage and photos.

2 miles of water - that's heavy. It really is awful.; 6/22/23, 6:57 PM
Robert Cook said...: "so.. How much, did all this cost ME? for the Coast Guard, etc? $1Million? 2? 4? 8? 16?"

Such a drama queen. Spread out across all the tax payers in the nation, a few cents, or less.; 6/22/23, 7:05 PM
SteveWe said...: It was calculated that the implosion took 2 nanoseconds from start to finish. Light travels 9" per nanosecond. So, the implosion was never seen nor felt by the crew.; 6/22/23, 7:14 PM
Gospace said...: Gilbar, it cost practically nothing. Was basically a USCG training exercise. All the assets they used would have been doing something else anyway.

And Owen, you did your math wrong AND used the wrong formula. P1*V1/T1=P2*V2/T2, and T and V both need to be in absolute units. 75 deg F is about 297 deg K. And the V is decreasing as the air is pressurized. The bodies get really hot before the water slams into them. At that depth probably at supersonic speed.

Since the heating would be of such short duration before the water slam I don’t know if anyone has ever determined if there would be forensic evidence of the heating. But that heating would apply to the carbon fiber pressure vessel surface also. Now I wonder if that contributed to many pieces instead of a few big ones…

IMHO it would be worth hauling up a few pieces to determine this and see if there’s any evidence of high temperature on the carbon fiber.; 6/22/23, 7:22 PM
Gk1 said...: Considering all of the details coming out regarding its construction its strange this had not happened sooner. It was basically a tube made of carbon fibers. The front vision dome looked like it was tightened with socket wrenches bought from Harbor Freight. It was navigated by knock off wifi video controllers from a Playstation 2.

There will be no mysteries as to its failure as the next of kin sue Oceangate Expeditions back to the stone age.; 6/22/23, 7:25 PM
Bunkypotatohead said...: The New Republic says its all good since one of them contributed to the GOP.

"Public campaign finance records indicate that Stockton Rush, the CEO of OceanGate currently stuck on the missing Titan submersible that was running a tourist expedition of the Titanic wreck, has been a consistent Republican donor over the years.

Now a point of caveat here: According to these public finance records, Rush was not a Republican megadonor, but his donations over the years leaned heavily toward Republican candidates."; 6/22/23, 7:40 PM
Candide said...: Owen,

Gay-Lussac law is valid only for constant volume conditions. When submarine imploded, there was sudden and drastic change of volume.; 6/22/23, 7:56 PM
Owen said...: lone justice @ 5:32: I have less than zero interest in getting into politics here, but I have to question your remark about who made donations for which party. What exactly the hell does that have to do with what happened? Are you saying Republicans make fatal mistakes in their businesses? Are you saying this guy deserved to die because he backed the wrong candidates?

Sick.; 6/22/23, 8:09 PM
DRP said...: The Navy knew immediately what had happened, having heard it on whatever the modern equivalent to SOSUS is, which is why they dragged their feet getting submersibles into the water. It was obvious that all aboard were dead. No reason to rush for dead men.

The only blessing is that they died instantly. At that depth, when the pressure hull crushed their bodies were exposed to something like 6500 PSI and the air heated up to a temperature that would have partially vaporized them. Dead in less than a millisecond. Expect to see dancing around about recovery of bodies, but there's likely nothing left other than strawberry jam and chum.; 6/22/23, 8:25 PM
Breezy said...: Our humanity is truly lost.; 6/22/23, 8:42 PM
Mason G said...: "The Judges appointed by GOP Presidents and Governors will throw out the case because the expert witness is not good enough."

Or the judges appointed by Democrat Presidents and Governors will throw out the case due to lack of standing.; 6/22/23, 8:49 PM
Daniel12 said...: Quaestor said...
"OceanGate directly asked for this by trashing 50-year-old ex-Navy guys, white or whatever, with 20-plus years of submarine experience for "inspiration". (Inspiration, btw, is a 20-something coed-type with a ring through her nose and a TikTok upload in progress.) They used to have a 50-something retired submariner on staff, but they canned his ass for pointing out that real submarines aren't made of carbon fiber."

For fucks sake everything is an opportunity to complain about wokesness. THE OWNER/DESIGNER OF THE SUB WAS A 50 SOMETHING YEAR OLD WHITE GIY WHO FIRED THE WHISTELBLOWER AND BRAGGED FOR YEARS ON TV ABOUT CUTTING CORNERS AND BREAKING RULES.

But tell me about the nose ring again please. It must have been a load bearing nose ring.; 6/22/23, 9:33 PM
paminwi said...: Lonejustice: who gives a rat’s ass where the guy’s political donations went? There are morons in every party.; 6/22/23, 10:02 PM
Michael K said...: OceanGate CEO Stockton Rush's donations over the years leaned heavily towards Republican candidates.

That makes it OK he was killed, too. Doesn't it ? You guys are something else.; 6/22/23, 10:11 PM
Temp Blog said...: "OceanGate CEO Stockton Rush's donations over the years leaned heavily towards Republican candidates."

Perhaps you could enlighten us with what that has to do with anything related to this story? I fail to see a connection.; 6/23/23, 12:21 AM
iowan2 said...: I recognize the lose of life.

I also recognize we all have free choice. While I would not take a ride to the bottom of the ocean, I am very thankful for those that do those kinds of things. It expands human knowledge. Explorers have always risked their lives to stretch the boundaries of our existence.

I am at a loss why even one person would judge others for their actions, that in the end effect no one else. Even govt expense of search and rescue, is an investment in our future. All that equipment and manpower, have to be used, and training is always on going.

Rest is Peace.; 6/23/23, 5:12 AM
iowan2 said...: The Navy heard it implode right when it happened, per the WSJ. But I guess they do have to keep their secrets, go through channels, etc.

The Navy detected a sound. Working backwards from the announcement, they let Oceangate know.
The Navy had no way of knowing the sound was the implosion. Oceangate decided not to make the news public.; 6/23/23, 5:43 AM
Big Mike said...: @Owen, @Michael K., @Temp Blog, per my comment at 3:33, I believe lonejustice is signaling membership among the people Ben Dreyfuss correctly characterizes as lunatics.; 6/23/23, 6:58 AM
Fritz said...: Back when I played at being an oceanographer, one of the fun things to do on cruises was to clip a Styrofoam cup on to a hydroline headed a few hundred meters down. The cup would come back thimble sized.; 6/23/23, 6:59 AM
Quaestor said...: "For fucks sake everything is an opportunity to complain about wokesness."

Evidently, Daniel12 has forgotten (or is ignoring) that among the woke everything is an opportunity to complain about whiteness.; 6/23/23, 7:48 AM
Owen said...: Thanks Candide and Gospace and others for correcting me on the formula. I knew that it was too easy, plugging in numbers like that…but I figured my result (T = 213,000 F) would be in the ballpark because the cabin pressure would go pretty much to infinity as its volume went to zero —the incoming water acting as a kind of ram or piston acting on the contents of the cabin. In any case the event would be over almost instantly.

I am no physicist (d’oh) but I was sufficiently struck by the horror of the situation that I wanted to try to put numbers around it; create a certain bubble of objectivity as we contemplate those lives now ended.; 6/23/23, 7:56 AM
Quaestor said...: Robert Cook writes, "Such a drama queen. Spread out across all the tax payers [sic] in the nation, a few cents, or less."

Does Robert Cook think Alexis d'Tocqueville is a brand of cheap Napa Valley wine?; 6/23/23, 8:34 AM
Quaestor said...: "I am no physicist (d’oh) but I was sufficiently struck by the horror of the situation that I wanted to try to put numbers around it; create a certain bubble of objectivity as we contemplate those lives now ended."

USS Thresher (SSN 593) sank below its crush depth and broke apart on 10 April 1963. All 123 souls aboard were lost. The Navy collected a few pieces from the wreck for analysis; nothing recovered was burned, melted, or even grossly distorted. When submarines crush death comes as rapidly as a bullet to the brain, but these things aren't nearly as dramatic as Hollywood portrays them.

As for this created "bubble of objectivity", there's no need to create reality or help it along. Inevitably, reality asserts itself with no assistance from the peanut gallery.; 6/23/23, 8:51 AM
Drago said...: LLR "lonejustice": "OceanGate CEO Stockton Rush's donations over the years leaned heavily towards Republican candidates."

Temp Blog: "Perhaps you could enlighten us with what that has to do with anything related to this story? I fail to see a connection."

LLR lonejustice's comment has nothing to do with the story. Its simply another weak LLR maneuver to toss shade at republicans/conservatives while providing cover for Wokie ideology.; 6/23/23, 8:57 AM
Rusty said...: So.
We can scratch that vacation destination off the list. I think I'll just take the fam on another tour of the U505 and call it good.; 6/23/23, 9:11 AM
Rusty said...: Blogger Rt41Rebel said...
"They died doing what they loved."
Too soon?
Nah.; 6/23/23, 9:15 AM
stlcdr said...: Not really much to say. While there are arguments about the suitability/safety of the endeavor (often understandably), this, I feel, is death by misadventure. Which is common when pushing boundaries.

The cruelty exhibited by those that want to 'eat the rich', while always present in societies, has appeared to reach a sad all new level.; 6/23/23, 9:42 AM
MadisonMan said...: @Fritz I had a boss who did that way back when. It's really cool to see the shrunken cups!; 6/23/23, 9:58 AM
JAORE said...: "Such a drama queen. Spread out across all the tax payers in the nation, a few cents, or less."

And that statement shows why we are doomed.

Alabama no longer has Senator Shelby a "conservative". Never voted for him, never would.

I was at a meeting with hi representative going over research requests from the University of Alabama. Shelby's guy never asked any questions about the research issues or likely outcomes (some were pathetic). A woman professor said she wished her particular project could get funded so easily.

Shelby's guy asked, "How much do you need?"

She replied $3 million.

"Budget dust. It's approved".

"Conservative". Feh!; 6/23/23, 10:29 AM
mtp said...: I designed lights camera and actuators for these things for years.
a. I can't believe the string of engineering stupidity I've read about.
b. DO NOT go underwater in carbon fiber.
c. DO NOT go underwater in carbon fiber.; 6/23/23, 11:15 AM
Drago said...: Big Mike: "@Owen, @Michael K., @Temp Blog, per my comment at 3:33, I believe lonejustice is signaling membership among the people Ben Dreyfuss correctly characterizes as lunatics."

So very true.

But only completely true.; 6/23/23, 1:05 PM
Daniel12 said...: Quaestor, your justification for your silly claim is that other people make what you consider to be silly claims. I think that's probably right -- but it's not exactly a justification.; 6/23/23, 2:04 PM
Free Manure While You Wait! said...: "Sad that 4 others loss their life, but they too had their own hubris."

Not the boy. He didn't want to do this. But eventually relented to his father's wishes.; 6/23/23, 3:27 PM
Free Manure While You Wait! said...: "The Judges appointed by GOP Presidents and Governors will throw out the case because the expert witness is not good enough."

What a strange world you must live in.; 6/23/23, 3:29 PM
Free Manure While You Wait! said...: Naming something OceanGate is just asking for a scandal.; 6/23/23, 3:31 PM
Free Manure While You Wait! said...: "There are morons in every party."

In my book, any party affiliation whatsoever is proof-positive of moronism.; 6/23/23, 3:42 PM
hawkeyedjb said...: Went down in a sub
Didn't quite make it back up
Pop goes the vessel; 6/23/23, 9:11 PM