Says the Russian businessman, Mikhail B. Khodorkovsky, quoted in the NYT.
June 24, 2023
"Now we see that only armed people can resist the dictatorship."
"Now there is a small window of opportunity when there is chaos on the streets and the security forces are not in control of the situation. If you see the strength in yourself in the future to become those armed people who will oppose Putin or Prigozhin, then it’s time to arm yourself. Prigozhin is not our friend and not even our ally. He is a bandit and a war criminal. But his rebellion is a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity, and there won’t be another like it for a long time."
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"Now we see that only armed people can resist the dictatorship."
Oh wow, did someone just wake up from their nap?
"Political power grows out of the barrel of a gun." - Mao ZeDong
I like Mao's version better.
I thought that all it took was some buffalo hats.
He's saying this from the safety of London.
Tucker Carlson hit hardest.
Bold font for "armed people..." Dare I contemplate the meaning of this emphasis?
Maybe the Second Amendment was a fundamental part of the architecture of self-government?
Perish the thought: we should trust all to the (s)mothering State!
If only Putin had Biden's F-15's he could put down these upstarts. Of course The Vlad may follow the advice of Eric Swallwell (D-Nuke'Em) use a mushroom cloud or two.
One dictator will replace another. The story of Russia.
When what is expected to be a short, victorious, war turns instead into a long, people-eating, meat grinder of a conflict, then regime change is not unexpected.
I thought you needed F-16’s to take on a government. Or so an oft-quoted village idiot tells us.
Emphases Althouse, I presume?
You can lead the jackasses to water, but you cannot make them drink.
Nor think. We are stuck with the stupidissimi of the Establishment and all we can do is resist and try to knock them out before they give away the Constitution and the nation it created.
I searched for the quote in this post hoping for a link to get around the NYT paywall and read the full article.
Bing's AI didn't give me any links to try. It just told me this:
The quote you provided is from an article published by The New York Times on June 24th, 2023. It appears to be discussing Prigozhin’s rebellion against Putin’s government 3. However, I would like to remind you that it is not appropriate to promote or encourage violence or armed conflict.
Latest is there is a willingness to negotiate. Regardless, this whole thing makes Putin look very weak. Not cluster-bombing the whole column is going to come back to bite him, if my understanding of Russian psychology is any guide. Every Russian speaker of any political persuasion just saw that.
Apparently Vlad's stock hadn't hit rock bottom.
William Spaniel has had the best coverage of the war and strategies since the beginning (see his channel) including today's update, if you want the realistic outlooks.
This gets more potentially out of control by the hour. Per my comment in an earlier post, wars are not predictable. I've seen way too many Pro-Ukrainian War commenters on Twitter virtually taking a congratulatory/victory lap as if (a) they've had anything to do with what's happening, and (b) they know just how it'll end up. Many are taking swipes at David Sacks, Tucker Carlson and others, who simply questioned the smarts of sending billions + draining our own ammo and weaponry to Ukraine. Remember, before people started kneeling to Zelensky, he was a comedian. And Ukraine was considered among the most corrupt nations on earth. Which is why the Bidens had them preselected for business.
These clowns are cheering this as if Prigozhin is some sort of shining knight on horseback coming to bring peace and security to the world. He's not. He's a thug who loves power. Not new for Russia. And Khodorkovsky now saying people should take this moment. How much ammo and weaponry do 'the people' in Russia have? Not much, if any.
No one knows how this will go. I hope for the best and I cannot even say what that would look like. So I question the 'experts' who are currently gloating online about this being the end. I do not see this as the end. I see it as the beginning of the next mess. This is how large wars can spark.
Lots of gun stores in Moscow are there?
Lots of gun stores in Moscow are there?
Allow me to be the first to give my condolences to Mikhail B. Khodorkovsky's family for his fall from a window. Probably tomorrow.
Mr Khordorkovsky has been in prison or in exile for a long time now.I don't think he has his finger on the pulse of Russian society.
BBC:
It's been a remarkable half hour with the sudden news that Wagner's soldiers will stop marching to Moscow. Here's the full statement from the Wagner chief, Yevgeny Prigozhni: "They wanted to disband the Wagner military company. We embarked on a march of justice on 23 June. In 24 hours, we got to within 200km of Moscow. In this time we did not spill a single drop of our fighters' blood. Now the moment has come when blood could be spilled. Understanding responsibility [for the chance] that Russian blood will be spilled on one side, we are turning our columns around and going back to field camps as planned."
So....never mind. Civil war averted, for now.
"There’s a battle outside and it is ragin’
It’ll soon shake your windows and rattle your walls"
#BREAKING: Belarusian president held talks with Prigozhin today. Lukashenko says that Prigozhin has agreed to "stop the movement of armed persons on the territory of Russia and to take further steps to deescalate"
Correct take.
Oh, so Khodorkovsky is a "Businessman". LOL. He's one of the fraudsters who went from being a Communist Youth leader in the 80s to being a Billionaire in the 90s. He didn't do it by "Free Enterprise" he did it by using shady methods and connections to take over the formerly Publically owned Oil company for pennies on the dollar.
He was found guilty of fraud and embezzlement and Putin Pardoned him, IRC, in 2013 and kicked him out of Russia. So, now he's a supporter of "Democracy" LOL and hates Putin.
Putin is NOT a dictator. People vote in Russia. They have a parliment. But guess what? A majority of the Russian people like Putin. They also support the breakaway republics leaving Ukraine and joining Russia. THe Liberal Globalist elite in the USA/UK, hates that. So, they act like Putin is some sort of Russian Hitler. Just like they act like J6 was a coup, Trump is a Rightwing extremist, and Hunter Biden is innocent, and anyone who opposes them is either stupid or evil.
Besides the fact that most Americans are idiots, I've decided a lot of them just love war and running around the world telling everyone else what to do. Some of them, like Miss Lindsey are creaming their pants over WW III with Russia. well, count me out!
This is why the Founders wrote the Second Amendment.
Of course The Russian Businessman doesn’t want the people to kill him.
Success in business means nothing when chaos erupts.
Looks like it was a play for more money, Prigozhin is headed back to the frontlines. The Russian military system is fucked.
Thought from a beginning-to-be-awakened lefty,
"Hmmm, maybe there is something behind having the 2d Amendment."
Then I wake from my dream.
Wouldn’t it be great if the people had a right to arm themselves so they were always prepared to resist a dictatorship?
If you’re a dictator allowing private armies to flourish is probably not a smart move.
Bob Boyd,
Go to https://getpocket.com/en/ this is an app that allows you to download most any article from the internet to a cloud account. It strips most of the popups and ads from them as it does so.
I've been using it for years to download long articles that I don't have time to read then. Articles with helpful tips (20 useful alternatives to Google!) and such. I can download on my laptop and read on my desk, phone or tablet or vice versa. Formatting is such that it is often easier to read than the original online.
I find it particularly useful when doing research. I can search (Duck Duck Go, of course) for something like antibiotic manufacturing in China. With 1 click save any article that looks like it might be of interest, tag it, then open and read later.
It does not work with all paywall sites but it does with some and NYT is one. If I try to open a NYT article I get the paywall message. If I right click then "Save to Pocket" I get the full article, nicely formatted, to read at leisure on any device.
John LGB Henry
Standard version of Pocket is free
RC Ocean,
A lot, probably a majority, of Russian people liked Stalin. Even when they had family members taken away to the Gulag, most of the time they thought "Poor cousin Boris. He must have done something against the state. I guess he deserved it."
By historical standards, Putin is a pretty decent head of state. He is pretty decent even compared to many European heads of state in Germany, France, Spain, Austria and so on over the past couple centuries.
He may be the best the Russians can hope for. His successor may turn out to be another Stalin or worse. Or he might be better. Seems like a crapshoot. I'd bet worse, but only maybe $5 or so.
Just a reminder, Mussolini's definition of Fascism:
Everything within the state, nothing outside the state, nothing against the state"
seems to fit Putin and Zelinsky about equally. Also Biden & Co.
John LGB Henry
@John Henry
Thanks!
Hamilton and Madison and Jay knew that in 1787. The deplorables (and the credentialed elite) know it now.
Summary history of Russia: long centuries of misery punctuated by brief flashes of false hope.
Not a single person here on this blog has any personal knowledge whatsoever about what is transpiring in the Russian Federation right now. But, by g_d, everyone here sure has an opinion. It's called the "fog of war." Don't believe anything you see or hear for at least 48 hours, and save your comments for later.
rcocean said:
"Putin is NOT a dictator. People vote in Russia."
Yes, his one-man rule is called a "personalist autocracy", which---as any FOOL can plainly see---is very different from a "dictatorship".
Oh wait....
Reliable sources claim Prigozhin exhorted his troops yesterday while wearing a buffalo-horned headdress to show how serious his insurrection was.
Just sayin'.
jim5301: "If you’re a dictator allowing private armies to flourish is probably not a smart move."
Private armies, and "police"/security forces, flourishing is what directly led to Putin's rise and acceptance by a majority of russians in the first place.
Lincolntf: "Looks like it was a play for more money, Prigozhin is headed back to the frontlines. The Russian military system is fucked."
When was it not?
Thoughtful of the Russians to stage a coup just when the shit really hits the fan in the Hunter/QuidProJoe scandals.
Darksland,
We have no idea how many Russians "liked" stalin, since anyone who expressed dislike of him were whisked off to the Gulag, assuming they didn't get shot.
We know the Russian people like Putin, because liberal pollsters are allowed to ask people. And because people are allowed to say they oppose Putin. Unlike the USA, where if you say you support the J6 protestors you might get fired from your job, or if you're a lawyer, disbarred.
I'm just Joe Six-pack and if I know it, everyone else does. So, that's why I think the real reason for the American attitude toward Putin and the Ukraine is simply a love of war and imperialism. Many Anglo-Americans love being Nanny/Policeman for the world. "The Great Game", playing "Risk". Lets move that chess piece in east asia, otherwise the chicoms will have the advantage.
Some may object to the word "Imperialism" when we're supposedly "sticking up for the rule of law" and "Supporting democracy". But this is a flip side to the OLD Anglo-American imperialism where we practiced gunboat diplomacy and bragged that the "Sun never set on the British Empire".
Its always us, telling some foreigner, using dollars or guns, how to behave. According to OUR standards. When we thought slavery was OK, we had to dominate the slave-trade, when we thought slavery was wrong, well we used the Royal Navy to stop it. Once we decided the world was fine the way it was, then changing borders were wrong. Before that, the USA/UK were the biggest "border changers" in the world.
In a sane America, we'd be concerned about millions of illegals pouring over our Southern border or a zillion other domestic problems. But to many, that is boring. Better to worry about Russia's border -5000 miles away. Giddy minds and foreign quarrels.
Well it's probably over. Prigozhin expected mass protests that would unify the Russian people, further isolate the Putin regime and win over the army rank and file. Only then could Prigozhin attack the capital. But nothing happened.
The August Coup in 1991 also failed in a spectacular manner. But the Communist Party collapsed in the Soviet Union and the USSR was dissolved four months later. And a drunk Boris Yeltsin had an awesome moment on top of a tank! Anyways let's wait and see how the Wagner Coup plays out. It's not looking good for Putin and his mafia state.
If I had slept for 24 hours instead of merely 8, I’d be scratching my head and wondering what the shouting was all about.
Wagner is going to Belarus so I don't think this is over (whatever it is). Putin placed nukes in Belarus against the wishes of its President and Putin, also, was forcing Belarus to integrate its forces with regular Russian forces. But now these two outcasts from Putinland, Belarus and Wagner, have joined forces and, thanks to Putin, they have nuclear weapons. And remember, Wagner covered 800 of the 1000 kilometers between Rostov and Moscow without being fired on. That tells you how much support Putin has. Probably, the world, including China, is being quite determined and forceful about the need to have a regular Army soldier and/or a regular Russian politician in charge of Russia's nukes and this may require a relatively slow transition.
Blogger jim5301 said...
If you’re a dictator allowing private armies to flourish is probably not a smart move.
Yes, you can tell a would be dictator by how hard he tries to disarm the populace.
"Summary history of Russia: long centuries of misery punctuated by brief flashes of false hope."
Talk to any Russian, and they'll tell you this is why all the vodka.
Oh, Russia, Russia, Russia.
Don't be so paranoid. NATO will never try to invade the Rodina. The Germans barely have an army. No one wants to try to do what Napolean and Hitler failed at. Like never. Okay. Like. Never.
Poland, the Baltics and Scandanavia are seriously worried about your mental health. It's you, not them.
You've been trying to face West since Peter the Great and have pretty much failed. All of use really want you to adopt some modicum of democratic values. We say this with love, think you would feel better if you loosened up a bit.
I understand we told you we'd never run NATO up to your borders. Yes, we lied. We also convinced Ukraine to give up their nukes promising them security. No nukies for Ukies! Our promise was sort of vague, but I think you were in on that agreement, too. Diplomatic bullshit, amiright?
Looking back, it might have been a mistake for us and the EU powerhouses to keep offering them NATO and EU membership if only they'd clean up their rampant corruption. Riiight. I also don't think, if earlier, they'd ever get past the German veto. Sucking the Russian gas, no way then they'd ever want to be in an Article 5 with Ukraine. BTW, most of the Luftwaffe is grounded for lack of spare parts and they can only mount one ready brigade.
We were kind of rattling your cage, you old Russian Bear you. You had been clearly saying since 2004 that Russia would never allow Ukraine to join NATO because, of course, the Crimea. I understand. The Mediterranean fleet is based in Savastopol and it's one of those things that makes you a huge big-time player, plus all the nukes.
Okay, you took it from the Ottomans in 1774. Good on ya, BTW. You successfully defended it during the Crimean War (1853-1856) against the Ottomans, British and French armies. And, there was the valiant 13-month siege against Hitler's minions. Thanks for the help. I get it. It's a very emotional issue for a country with an inferiority complex.
I know Chairman Kruschev moved the Crimea from the Russian FSSR into Ukraine SSR in 1954. It was strictly an admistrative move because the USSR people were all comrades, not like the Tsar's prisonhouse of nations, as Lenin remarked. Like most of the people are ethnic Russians settled there over the last two and-a-half centuries as over time the Crimean Tartars were deported to a new homeland in Central Asia. Sort of like the Cherokees, Creeks, et.al. and Oklahoma. Water under the bridge but it's probably as touchy with you as it is with us. We understand.
Hindsight is 20/20 but we, the U.S. and EU, probably shouldn't have assisted a pro-EU/NATO "popular uprising," the Maidan, and help overthrow the elected pro-Russian government. Was the election fair? Probably no worse than Chicago or Philly. But Obama and the big EU leaders, the "Great Powers," thought they would be cute and show some BDE. Okay, it was really slapping you in the face you and so we shouldn't have been real surprised when you flew off the handle.
Then, you had your armed forces staitoned in Crimea just take over the place and sent the "little green men" into the Donets basin.
That's all the time we have right now, Mr. Bear. Yes, I know a lot of things went way south since then including the misunderstanding about the "minor incursion" thing, and we haven't talked about the mucho macho Syria thing where you probably didn't get your props for bringing the war to a semi-peaseful close. Are you really that upset about the suppression of the Ukrainian Orthodox Church given that Moscow is the "Third Rome?" We cosmopolitanss in the West are so over religious sectarionaism, doncha know.
Next week same time?
He is just seeing this now?
According to Bellingcat's Aric Toler:
A Russian military blogger visited a Wagner base shortly before it was allegedly the target of a shelling attack, which Wagner head Yevgeny Prigozhin has blamed on the Russian Ministry of Defence (MOD), although the MOD has denied.
On the evening of June 23, a Wagner-affiliated Telegram channel posted the following message, which was soon after shared by Prigozhin on his personal Telegram channel: “A missile attack was carried out on a PMC Wagner base. There are many casualties. According to the information of the fighters who are witnesses, the attack was carried out from a rear direction – that is, it was carried out by soldiers of the Russian Ministry of Defence.”
I just said to my wife: I lived through this when I was a kid. As long as it doesn't go nuclear I won't care.
Now, it's my grandfather's and father's history all over again.
Cernovich has it about right:
"“PUTLER IS FINISHED HIS PLANE LEFT MOSCOW RUSSIA LOST THE WAR IN UKRAINE SLAVA AZOV SLAVI WAGNER.”
Literally last night.
Fucking idiots.
And they won’t have a single drop of self awareness or epistemic humility when the next Current Thing drops."
Thoughts upon waking up in the middle of the night in a lightning storm... What the hell is wrong with Russia? Centuries of fighting wars. With their neighbors and their own people. They're not a stupid people. What is it? The cold? Not enough wheat? Not enough of having enough of everything? Attention, give it to me? What? Zzzz
"Putin is NOT a dictator. People vote in Russia. They have a parliment (sic)"
Huh? The USSR allowed people to vote, and it had a "parliament". Name me one Third World dictatorship that doesn't hold elections or have the equivalent of a parliament.
"Now we see that only armed people can resist the dictatorship."
As in:
Military conscripts . . . were sent to the frontlines armed only with weapons developed in the late 19th century. . . .
Russian draftees were issued with a bolt action Mosin rifle, a weapon that was produced in the 1880s by the Russian Empire. The weapon went out of production decades ago after World War II, . . . people who saw the conscripts bearing the rifles told Reuters.
“It's like we're fighting with World War II muskets,” one of the . . . conscripts, a student, said.
planetgeo, asked and answered:
Russians are shits. They know they are shits, that their whole repulsive society is based on a succession of lies which nobody really believes. The only proof that they are not, as Hitler believed, morally sub-human, is to be found in their occasional propensity to despair and suicide.
-- Auberon Waugh
planetgeo, asked and answered:
Russians are shits. They know they are shits, that their whole repulsive society is based on a succession of lies which nobody really believes. The only proof that they are not, as Hitler believed, morally sub-human, is to be found in their occasional propensity to despair and suicide. Auberon Waugh
planetgeo, asked and answered:
Russians are shits. They know they are shits, that their whole repulsive society is based on a succession of lies which nobody really believes. The only proof that they are not, as Hitler believed, morally sub-human, is to be found in their occasional propensity to despair and suicide. Auberon Waugh
The ranchers in the western US have a way of dealing with the onerous rules of the various government agencies regulating (limiting) protection of crops and herds from predation. Shoot, shovel, and shut up, it is called. If a wolf is killing calves, ignore the rules and remove the predator, bury any evidence, and just don't say anything about it.
A similar approach might be useful in situations as described in this post, especially where political operatives are the oppressors. Think globally, act locally, as the old 60s saying goes. If enough people do this, the local thugs get thinned out all over, and the rest learn a useful lesson about being thugs.
"What this country needs is a short, victorious war to stem the tide of revolution." Vyacheslav Konstantinovich von Plehve, Interior Minister under the Czar shortly before his assassination.
"The belief in the possibility of a short decisive war appears to be one of the most ancient and dangerous of human illusions." Robert Wilson Lynd
And a nice hello to all the David Weber fans (“The Short Victorious War”)
Things are getting frisky in Russia. Which happens when the Emperor is revealed to have no clothes. Now there will be chaos as many people and groups jockey against and with each other.
My condolences to all who like a nice neat plotline with the grand puppeteer pulling all strings. Most of life is bumpy when people get along, let alone when they perceive things have gone seriously sideways.
A lot of Mosin-Nagant rifles were made right here in the US of A; Remington IIRC (maybe others) produced hundreds of thousands under contract to the Tsar's army.
Bismarck: Never trust a Russian. A Russian doesn't trust himself.
gadfly said @ 9:39
You have an amazing propensity to miss the point.
Narr.
None of the Mosins the Finns used in the Winter War were made before 1899. Thet rebarreled them to make them more accurate and changed the sights to meters or yards instead of arshins.
Bob Boyd said...
I searched for the quote in this post hoping for a link to get around the NYT paywall...
-- If you're on a PC, right click on the article link in the Althouse post
-- Select 'Copy link address'
-- Open a new browser tab
-- Enter https://archive.ph/ in the address bar
-- Paste the Althouse link in the red box at the top of the screen
-- Hit the SAVE button to the right of this red box
-- You now have access to the full article
Every publication is archived on the Internet. Enjoy
* Sometimes you may encounter a queue if the article is super recent.
If so, just come back to it later *
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