Writes Matt Bai in "His name is Kennedy. His campaign is pure Trump" (WaPo).
And: "Like Trump, Kennedy is given to skillful demagoguery.... ... Kennedy explained how the covid vaccine — which he seems to regard as a vast societal evil, like opioids, or the War on Christmas — utterly failed to stop transmission of the coronavirus, just as the government secretly knew it would. Of course, the main point of the vaccine wasn’t to stop us from catching variants of the virus — it was to stop those variants from killing us at intolerable rates. Which it did."
Was "the main point of the vaccine... to stop those variants from killing us at intolerable rates"? Didn't that just become the main point after it turned out that's all the vaccine was doing? Back when we eagerly lined up to get the vaccine, we believed it would keep us from catching the disease.
This is a very sleazy column by Matt Bai. If he's so disgusted by Trump's handling of the facts, he should look at his own.
By the way, it's already so obvious that when Trump finally leaves the political arena, there will be an endless supply of new candidates who are declared just like Trump.
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124 comments:
Now do Marianne Williamson!
Of course, the main point of the vaccine wasn’t to stop us from catching variants of the virus — it was to stop those variants from killing us at intolerable rates. Which it did."
The gaslighting is never ending.
The trouble is that all the "conspiracies" identified by WaPoo came out to be true.
"Kennedy is given to skillful demagoguery"
As opposed to Joe's clueless demagoguery, which Dems prefer.
"Of course, the main point of the vaccine wasn’t to stop us from catching variants of the virus"
Actually, the main point of vaccine-vaccines is to stop "variants." As Joe himself insisted. Where was Bai to call he's BS?
Of course, the vax requirements on workers and athletes were not imposed on them for their own health but to stop the spread. More BS.
Now do Russian collusion. Liars at WAPO got Pulitzers for REAL conspiracy theories that Hillary Clinton paid for. There are a lot conspiracies that have come true because the media is an arm of the Progressives liars that took over our Government and is destroying our country as fast as they can. Of course, WAPO and their activists are too blind to see them.
No, a VACCINE is, by definition, supposed to keep one from getting the disease. The COVID shots were, at best, a pretreatment not a vaccine. And they wonder why they have no credibility.
"Of course, the main point of the vaccine wasn’t to stop us from catching variants of the virus — it was to stop those variants from killing us at intolerable rates."
Yes. Duh. After they had to change the narrative of course.
Was "the main point of the vaccine... to stop those variants from killing us at intolerable rates"? Didn't that just become the main point after it turned out that's all the vaccine was doing?
Ha ha ha. Absolutely not. What a ridiculous clown.
Methinks RFK Jr. is worrying some people.
The Empire has no clothes.
Matt Bai has re-defined vaccine, very smoothly. It seems very much ex post facto to me. Re-writing history means to me that people who supported the vaccine are frightened.
I recall when the collective left told us the vaccines would stop the spread of the virus... and make everyone immune from covid.
That was a lie.
Then their false promises morphed into "oh we never said that... we said that the vaccine would make your symptoms less severe."
I recall getting the first two jabs. Felt like a placebo to me.
An endless supply of Communists and other totalitarians have been declared to be as bad as Stalin, but none have brought his level of skill to the role.
There's only one Stalin. There's only one Trump.
It seemed to me that the vaccine did work. Vacs started in November and by May the original variant was gone. So it worked both against contracting the virus (tested ad 90% or so) and transmitting it, as evidenced by the virus being essentially gone.
Delta was starting to come in in May and the vaccine didn't work against that or subsequent variants, so that part is correct. Against the original, it did work.
Even closing in on 70 he’s the Guy women want to blow candidate this cycle, isn’t he? Perhaps it’s a relative age thing…
THIS is why I don't give a shit what WAPO or NYT's or any other Progressive State Media has to say. (or not say) They lie, they suck and they can all ROT IN HELL for what THEY did to this country.
https://jonathanturley.org/2023/05/15/americas-state-media-the-blackout-on-biden-corruption-is-truly-pulitzer-level-stuff/
Kennedy is an interesting character, and despite the pedigree not at all someone from Team Dem central-casting. What gives his candidacy power is that he's willing to say what is so obvious but no one else in Team Dem dares to say: not only that Biden is well past his sell-by date, but Team Dem as a whole has become beholden to all sorts of rent-seeking opportunists. It's reparations, green new deal, trans-everything, DEI Forever, etc., without the slightest interest in the deplorables who are expected to pay for it all by both financing it and taking a back seat in the bus. There are some similarities to Trump but also to Bernie Sanders, Huey Long, Gene McCarthy, Joe Hill and many others from both the left and right.
Of course, the main point of the vaccine wasn’t to stop us from catching variants of the virus — it was to stop those variants from killing us at intolerable rates. Which it did.
Horse feathers. He's describing a therapeutic, not a vaccine, changing the plain meaning of a common word to push a political narrative. It's a shame the guy doesn't have more self-respect than to ham-handedly tell his readers such obvious lies even if that is what they want.
Bobby Kennedy, like Donald Trump, is not the problem. He’s a symptom of the problem. What’s the problem? Dishonesty in the protection of power. I look at Biden, and he makes me want to vomit.
He’s worse than Trump.
You keep using that word "conspiracy." These so-called conspiracies are unfolding before your eyes and it's not clicking in your head.
It was not a vaccine (no attenuated virus in it) and it was more likely to create variants than to stop them.
RFK may be a conspiracy theorists when it comes to real vaccines but we need people like him to question the official government narrative.
We all know that WaPo (and the NYT) is the official DNC propaganda rag, so let's not be too harsh in our criticism.
I'm paywalled out, but this is the kind of column where I'd love to see the comments. Do people call Bai on his bunkum, or do they join in with bunk of their own?
Media: Trump is bad. Everyone we don't like is Trump.
COVID was just a deadly in the first year of vaccines availability as it was in the preceding year. The real reason those variants are no longer killing us at intolerable rates is because the virus has already thinned the herd of the most susceptible and vulnerable.
After being exposed to smart, brain-washed leftists on a recent foreign tour, it became clear to me that such people require a steady stream of propaganda to support their other-worldly views. Facts play no role. Just clever witticisms like comparing Kennedy to Trump, who of course is the embodiment of creepy evil. One such lefty assured his discussion companions that NYT and WAPO were excellent journalistic organizations that had done a marvelous job reporting on Russian collusion. Another assured me Trump should never hold public office because some real estate people in NYC who knew him didn’t like him. It is impossible to engage in a fact-based discussion with them I sadly observe that intelligence is no barrier to brain washing.
In 2023, Kennedy is just a brand name, and an old brand name at that. It's like asking people to buy an Edsel.
There is no end to the Media behaving like Church Lady "Could it be...Trump!!"
they changed the narrative as well as the definition.
Goal posts were put on wheels.
"skillful demagoguery, casually misleading with the conviction of a truth-teller. "
Matt would do well to apply that to his hot take.
Also skillful was avoiding any mention of harms from the jabs.
The Long Knives are out for Bobby!
"Didn't that just become the main point after it turned out that's all the vaccine was doing? Back when we eagerly lined up to get the vaccine, we believed it would keep us from catching the disease.
This is a very sleazy column by Matt Bai. If he's so disgusted by Trump's handling of the facts, he should look at his own."
Amen.
the covid vaccine — which he seems to regard as a vast societal evil—
wasn't it? WASN'T IT???
..utterly failed to stop transmission of the coronavirus, just as the government secretly knew it would.
it takes a LOT of NEWTHINK, to be able to forget the government EXPLICITLY SAY it WOULD stop it
Of course, the main point of the vaccine wasn’t to stop us from catching variants of the virus — it was to stop those variants from killing us at intolerable rates. Which it did."
We NOW know, that the intolerable rates came EXCLUSIVELY from needless ventilation.
It was the pneumonia from the ventilators that killed people.. NOT the cold virus
"Of course, the main point of the vaccine wasn’t to stop us from catching variants of the virus — it was to stop those variants from killing us at intolerable rates. Which it did."
Huh. I thought the main point of the vaccine was to prevent us from getting the disease and its variants. At least, that's why Biden told us, as did St. Fauci, et al. We were required to get the "jab" to save ourselves and our fellow countrymen and countrywomen. It was a our sacred, civic duty. Failure to do so meant we wanted to kill babies and grandparents.
jvb
What Bai and those he carries water for fear most is a populist convergence between the Kennedy and Trump constituencies.
You know, an overlap like in one of Kamala's Venn Diagrams.
Let's ask a Medical EXPERT..
Inga?? What was the purpose of a vaccine?
Inga?? WHAT did Joe Biden say the vaccine would do?
Inga?? You were a nurse.. Share YOUR expertise with us!!
i'm assuming that you're TOO BUSY being a retired nurse to help us; so i'll ask politifact
https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2021/jul/22/joe-biden/biden-exaggerates-efficacy-covid-19-vaccines/
Joe Biden
stated on July 21, 2021 in a CNN town hall:
“You’re not going to get COVID if you have these vaccinations.”
The new lie about the vaccine isn't as good as the old lie about the vaccine. The main point of the vaccine was to transfer billions to Pfizer.
"Kennedy sketched the bleak tableau of a government wholly owned and controlled by corporations, of nefarious powers in both parties hellbent on enslaving people with bureaucratic mandates."
Actually, I think Kennedy gets it better than Trump does. Maybe it's a little easier to take in if they killed your father and your uncle. And your beautiful aunt married a repulsive Greek shipping magnate because she believed his extensive security setup might be enough to protect her children from them.
Trump is still taking credit for Warp Speed. He is by no means red-pilled.
“Back when we eagerly lined up to get the vaccine, we believed it would keep us from catching the disease.”
I thought it would keep the disease from killing me, but maybe Althouse did believe something more. I think Althouse should fact check herself on that, what she believed when and from what source.
It’s true that President Trump announced that the new Pfizer and Moderna vaccines were 95% effective on December 8, 2020. I guess one could reach one’s own conclusion about what he meant by “effective” in that speech, so that could be the source. He did say, “This will quickly and dramatically reduce deaths and hospitalizations.”
It turns out that it wasn't the dread covid cytokine storms that killed people with covid. It was the secondary bacterial pneumonia acquired from prolonged intubation. When you went to your doctor, and told him you felt ill, he did not tell you to take vitamin D, zinc, hydroxychloroquine and ivermectin, all safe, cheap and effective. He told you to go home, and come back when you couldn't breathe. Then he knocked you out with morphine, and stuck you on a pump that wrecked your lungs. He did not give you prophylactic antibiotics to forestall the likely bacterial pneumonia. When you finally died from that pneumonia, he stamped "COVID" on your forehead, and the hospital sent a bill for about $70K to the feds.
This is why the death rate from "covid" has been highest in those nations with the most hospitals.
I'm growing impatient waiting for the explanation for the excess deaths, 18-50yr olds, reported by the actuaries.
Too much to ask?
Inga?, Inga?, Bueller?
Isn't a bonus for channeling the electorate's feelings about government and other institutions baked into the design of elections? So very sinister!
Anti-anti-Trump Derangement Syndrome.
Matt Bai Retweeted
Washington Post Opinions
@PostOpinions
·
May 10
“If I were giving Biden advice,” @MattBai
writes, “I’d tell him to steer into the storm rather than away from it, and run with Harris almost as if he expected her to take over.”
”Of course, the main point of the vaccine wasn’t to stop us from catching variants of the virus — it was to stop those variants from killing us at intolerable rates. Which it did."
So many falsehoods in two short sentences. The main point of any vaccine is to prevent one from getting the disease and its variants. That’s why smallpox was eradicated (except for small samples safely (???) stored in labs around the US, UK, and Russia), and that’s what happened with polio Many decades ago Diphtheria killed a small child who should have grown up to be one of my uncles. From 1996 to 2018 there were a total of 14 deaths due to Diphtheria in the US, less than one per year on average. The purpose of the COVID-19 vaccines was originally the same — until it turned out that they provided no immunity whatsoever. Not to variants like omicron (which I caught despite being vaccinated), and not even any immunity to the original strain.
Was the virus “killing us at intolerable rates”? Or were deaths from other causes lumped in as “deaths with COVID-19”? Famously, one black mother protested very loudly when her son was classed as dying “with COVID” and not due to the five bullets shot into him at point blank range. In 2020 our local hospital recorded zero deaths due to influenza, making it a huge statistical oddity. Were hospital administrators financially incentivized to classify most (or all) URT infections as coronavirus. Why, yes they were. But surely hospital administrators were much too honorable to do that, right? Right?
A final thought. How much of the falloff in deaths from COVID were due to the twin effects the virus mutating to less virulent strains (e.g., omicron) plus the medical profession learning more about how to treat the disease, and how much was due to the vaccine? I’m betting that if an honest assessment is ever made and successfully published, it will show at most negligible effects from the vaccine.
Okay, I wrote “final” in the paragraph above, but I fo have one more thought to convey and that is that mRNA vaccines appear to be downright dangerous. The association between mRNA vaccinations and subsequent myocarditis is too strong to be ignored — unless it’s politically awkward to acknowledge it.
In a world of conspirators, believing in conspiracy theories is rational. Kennedy is a nutjob, but he's still more rational than Matt Bai, who ignores the obvious. That, or Matt is a liar, which is more rational but equally problematic.
About the COVID "vaccine," I think the initial plan was to produce a real vaccine, but that's very difficult to execute in such a short term, especially with a highly contagious respiratory disease that is prone to regular mutation. I think what we got was helpful in that it mitigated the disease and saved a lot of lives. However, I very much believe that the pharmaceutical companies were in bed with various governments to push the "vaccine" beyond any reasonable level, specifically to make more money with infinite boosters. It is unconscionable that they pushed this on teenagers and children, who were under very little risk from COVID and were probably more at risk from the vaccine than the disease. It also became a cause of the totalitarian left, that likes any cause that they can use to punish other people.
Guess what did work just like every time before? Natural immunity. Once the wife and I each got a mild case of COVID a year into it we were never sick again. Everyone I know who took the jab has had it more than once. Even though at 6' tall and 215 pounds I was considered "obese" by the medical community and have had asthma I was not, as it turned out, susceptible to the WuFlu's worse effects. Neither was my wife. We are both over 60.
"Kennedy is given to skillful demagoguery"
======
almost anagram for Dem-ful skullduggery
Matt Bai is an employee of Mushroom Media. He's dishing bullsh*t on Bobby Kennedy and keeping his readers in the dark about the Joe "China owns me" Biden Crime Family.
Of course, the main point of the vaccine wasn’t to stop us from catching variants of the virus — it was to stop those variants from killing us at intolerable rates."
This is, of course, bullshit. And anyone who lived in 2020 will remember how the vaccine was going to stop the spread. How it would prevent you from getting it. Then how it would prevent you from spreading it. Then you had to get a new one every 2-3 months because it had such a short effectiveness. And the VAERS reports? Heh. We also remember how those who did not take the vax were suggested to be put into camps. Or just simply fired from their jobs. And masks were supposed to stop it. And the horse-pill was laughable (except that it worked as an early prophylactic). I'm sure Matt Bai knows nothing of this. Because Matt Bai is a part of todays 'know nothing and damned smug about it' class of journalists.
Kennedy is like Trump in that he has not been a lifelong politician, although in Kennedy's case, he grew up in it, lived all around it, and nonetheless, saw it for what it was early on. Both Trump and Kennedy show an unfiltered distrust and distaste for our Establishment Class. Both threaten that class. And both will be dismissed as much as possible going forward by that class, of which Matt Bai is a card-carrying member. And Matt's paper? It's a trash heap. A formerly respectable journal that is laughed at in most circles outside the Beltway today.
The most serious thing about this article is that it shows how utterly vacuous our journalism is today. The reporters know nothing, and are there simply to carry water for whatever the approved narrative is. But you all know that.
The author used the word 'overlay' where I think he meant 'overlap'. Or even 'lapover'.
ChatWaPo progresses with theories of conspiracy, collusion, and projection.
Delta was starting to come in in May and the vaccine didn't work against that or subsequent variants, so that part is correct. Against the original, it did work.,
But isn't that exactly like 100's years of experience and education have taught us about respiratory viruses? There can be no vaccine because the dominate strain always gives way to another variant that has always been there, and does no flourish until the dominate stain fades away. Each strain become more virulent and less deadly.
History told us this "vaccine" was not going to work.
Not really a comment, but a suggestion for your blog.
You blog about a lot of paywalled articles (NYT, WaPo, etc.). These can easily be read by anyone, using archive.org's "widget," which installs (at least in the Chrome browser) in the upper right corner area. When you get 'paywalled' (like where the NYT will cover up everything you want to see), you simply click on the widget, a new tab opens up, and archive.org either displays the paywalled page (if someone else has already archived it), or starts its process to do that, for you. It's very handy!
Why it's legal is a question I can't answer; I just know it works. I have no idea whether NYT, WaPo or any other paywalled sites make an issue of this, though it seems they would!
I mention this only because if I was blogging a lot of paywalled stuff, I think I would have a post that explains how to use archive.org, and tag all paywalled-content blog posts with a tag pointing to the post about archive.org ("How to see past the paywall", maybe).
Just an idea, for what it's worth. My two cents worth, I guess.
What conspiracies is Trump pushing? Deep state, and fake news are true.
Trump is the new Hitler for Dems and the Left, replacing Dubya, who was the last Hitler analogue.
Of course, the main point of the vaccine wasn’t to stop us from catching variants of the virus
Of course it was - stopping the spread was the sole justification used (and the sole one that could have been used) to mandate that people (pilots, governmental employees, medical personnel, etc.) take the vaccine.
gilbar,
Inga has many bunkbeds of new housemates.
She has her hands full.
He's Kennedy. Glib and charming are all that is good about him. Plus the stopped clock syndrome.
Kennedy is just a brand name, and an old brand name at that. It's like asking people to buy an Edsel
Yes, let's buy Biden, the 1940s Studebaker instead.
" it was to stop those variants from killing us at intolerable rates. Which it did."
No, it didn't. One lie. But it followed the first lie:
" the main point of the vaccine wasn’t to stop us from catching variants of the virus...
There are video mash-ups of all the big players in pushing the vaccines telling us great unwashed how the vaccine would keep us from getting covid and keep us from spreading it. I'm not going to bother looking up a link- with this audience here everyone has either seen them or denies they exist. I've seen them.
Back when we eagerly lined up to get the vaccine, we believed it would keep us from catching the disease. Don't include me in that we- I'm still unvaxxed with the vaccination that isn't. As is my wife. 68 and 66 years of age. We finally caught the disease itself from a twice vaxxed individual on his second case- before he developed symptoms - 30 years younger then me.
I know a lot of other commenters here don't belong to that "We" and are unvaxxed. And likely a greater percentage who were forced to vax to keep their job- but apparently that's counted as it was their choice- they could gave opted for bankruptcy and ruin, they weren't forced to get the jab. Among my acquaintances, no one EAGERLY and WILLINGLY lined up to get it.
The entire Chi-Com Covid pandemic was released on purpose.
The corrupt global elites had to do it. Trump's economic boom had to be halted.
Have they started calling RFK a white supremacist yet?
Vacs started in November and by May the original variant was gone
The original variant followed the trajectory of almost any new infection. It slowly mutates so that it eventually vanishes. I question whether its disappearance had anything at all to do with 'vaccines'.
A lot of conspiracy theories turn out not to be conspiracies these days...
"By the way, it's already so obvious that when Trump finally leaves the political arena, there will be an endless supply of new candidates who are declared just like Trump. "
Very true. "Trump" now means more than Trump. It is the new insult, to be used when "fascist" has been overused.
gilbar: "i'm assuming that you're TOO BUSY being a retired nurse to help.."
Inga wasn't too busy to call those of us questioning Fauci/WHO/ChiComs stateents and policies murderers during the height of the pandemic.
She wont call MS-13 machete murderers "murderers", naturally, because they have that "spark of divinity" as Pelosi said and Inga parroted.
Dave Begley: "The Long Knives are out for Bobby!"
And Trump.
And Tucker Carlson.
And Elon.
Discerning any patterns yet?
Real American: "Media: Trump is bad. Everyone we don't like is Trump."
That's not just the media....
“What Bai and those he carries water for fear most is a populist convergence between the Kennedy and Trump constituencies.”
Not sure how likely that is, except maybe to strip off some traditional Dems from the Trump constituency.
Kennedy’s danger to his party is just that - that he is an old style populist. It used to be that the Dems were the populist party (though usually headed by patrician elitists), and the Republican Party run by the upper middle class, and, in particular, their elite. I am reminded of Nixon’s wife proud of wearing her good, middle class coat, as contrasted to Kennedy’s aunt Jacki and her Paris fashions. The Dems are now the elitist party, where (a lot of) money and family connections is the key to power. We are supposed to acquiesce to their elite education and credentials, ignoring that for many of them, that elite education was the result of family connections and money.
The Dems fear Kennedy for the same reason that they feared Bernie - because they fear that they can’t control him, at least at the level that they control FJB. They probably would do just fine, because Kennedy probably shares Trump’s naivety about the federal bureaucracy and how DC really works.
I would very much like to associate myself with Richard Dolan's post at 10:54.
"By the way, it's already so obvious that when Trump finally leaves the political arena, there will be an endless supply of new candidates who are declared just like Trump. "
Very true. "Trump" now means more than Trump. It is the new insult, to be used when "fascist" has been overused.
Now you're saying it was never meant to stop the spread. What did you say at the time?
Blogger rhhardin said...
It seemed to me that the vaccine did work. Vacs started in November and by May the original variant was gone. So it worked both against contracting the virus (tested ad 90% or so) and transmitting it, as evidenced by the virus being essentially gone.
Viruses mutate, especially RNA viruses. The "Vaccine" was not a real vaccine. It infected recipients with an MRNA substance that instructed microsomes to make spike protein. Maybe that helped with the original virus but there is no proof or even any attempt to learn what it did. By 2021 the virus had mutated and just as in the 1918 "flu" the behavior changed. My wife and I are well over 70 and constitute part of the "high risk" group. We got the first two jabs but stopped there. The outlandish mandates convinced us that all was now politics. I doubt we will ever know.
Speaking of the Kennedys, I don't really have another place to raise the issues of JFK and Trump. Seems like all the critiques of Trump could also be critiques of JFK. He certainly, without a doubt, was more sexually manipulative and maybe even abusive if we apply the standards of today.
Are there reasons to cancel Trump that wouldn't be reasons to also cancel JFK. His name is everywhere and he's an icon to so many, but his failings are also all the more clear and yet we don't talk about renaming schools or buildings because of his sexually outlandish behavior and financial irregularities and so much more.
Remember in the 60s and 70s the government would infiltrate organizations. We took it for granted.
Its like none of that ever happened and now if you speak against the government narrative youre nothing but a conspiracy monger and Nazi.
Vaccines against RNA viruses like COVID don't stop variants of COVID from arising, and never will. The viruses mutate far too rapidly. This is why I advised against being hopeful that a vaccine would stop COVID 3 years ago- that even if they miraculously developed one quickly, new variants would arise, which is exactly what happened. We have been vaccinating against influenza A and B for decades, and flu still happens on a widespread basis, and always will.
"I sadly observe that intelligence is no barrier to brain washing"
The very smartest people wash their own brains. IQ and special expertise tempt them to assume their grasp on reality is secure and superior. They can invent reasons, make up arguments, go out on limbs better than anyone. Works great in lawyering and science, where the profusions and emanations must be run through a filter. Not so great in politics or philosophical meanderings.
And Bai is gaslighting- spokesman after spokesman for the Biden Idiots told us explicitly that the vaccines would stop people from getting COVID altogether, and that only unvaccinated would be the ones dying, both claims of which turned out to be completely untrue. I bet if I dig into Bai's twatter history, I will find him making exactly the same argument which he is now writing no one was making.
"... the destructive distrust in the electorate he seeks to channel."
Distrust of what, Matt? Your lies, and the criminal vermin who employ you to tell them? How is that destructive, Matt? Try thinking what "constructive distrust" would look like.
You Trumpers here who, like the Kennedy Kid, spit on COVID as any sort of threat, as a fraud, a ploy to destroy the US economy, etc., and see the COVID vax similarly as either a hoax, a menace to health or both, or whatever other crazed fantasies you harbor, what do you think of Trump's accomplishment (or his taking claim for the accomplishment) of having produced a vaccine so swiftly? Do you think he's GREAT because of his efforts (according to his telling) in quickly bringing forth the lives-saving vax, or do you spit on him as a fraud and menace for having been involved in (in any way) a fake vax that is, in your minds, useless--or worse, dangerous, even deadly?
Trump and Kennedy are symptoms of an underlying infection, not the cause. Take them away and the infection will remain.
Very true. "Trump" now means more than Trump. It is the new insult, to be used when "fascist" has been overused.
5/15/23, 12:43 PM
Because the use of RACISM is dead now. Al Sharpton is one of the most RACIST humans in America, and the left have to KISS HIS RING before they can run for President.
I usually don't respond to smears and bad faith, but:
"spit on COVID as any sort of threat"
Most of us did not "spit on" Covid but pointed out that, from the beginning, risks were extremely stratified by age and health condition--high for some, minimal for others
"a ploy to destroy the US economy".
Most of us did not view Covid itself as a ploy but did object to obviously ineffectual stop-the-spread policies that had the foreseeable effect of tanking the economy--and putting younger generations at a great disadvantage.
"what do you think of Trump's accomplishment (or his taking claim for the accomplishment) of having produced a vaccine so swiftly?"
Trump's accomplishment is mixed. The so-called vaccines did some good for some people but were obviously also oversold, and for healthy young people who were at minimal risk to begin with they could make no difference. Trump was clueless in dealing with public health bureaucrats and personalized the Covid response to his detriment.
shorter Bai:
Stay on the White Biden plantation.
Clyde: "Trump is the new Hitler for Dems and the Left, replacing Dubya, who was the last Hitler analogue."
In "fairness" to our democratical and LLR-democraticals, they were 75% of the way to having McCain forever tarred as Crazy Angry Hitler and they were also about 60% of the way to having Romney identified as Theocratic Hitler.
And imagine how surprised the democraticals must have been to have both Romney and McCain turn around and join the democraticals in their hatred for the republican base voters. Romney couldn't wait to find a BLM march to join! Yes, that's right, the explicitly marxist and anti-family BLM.
The GOPe-ers could not have been more proud of him as well.
Blogger Robert Cook said...
You Trumpers here who, like the Kennedy Kid, spit on COVID as any sort of threat, as a fraud, a ploy to destroy the US economy, etc., and see the COVID vax similarly as either a hoax, a menace to health or both, or whatever other crazed fantasies you harbor, what do you think of Trump's accomplishment
Fair question. Trump was poorly advised but he was faced with a hyped "pandemic" that was directed at his presidency. perhaps by the CCP. He did what he could and should be applauded for trying. There was a reasonable case for skipping most safety guidelines. I would remind you that Doctors Maurice Brodie and John Kohlmer developed an attenuated polio vaccine in 1931. Both, working separately, administered it to adult volunteers and monkeys safely. When this vaccine was administered to 13,000 children, 12 developed paralytic polio. The vaccine was never again used and both physicians were severely criticized. It was another 20 years before an other attempt was made.
Trump took bad advice on other measures like closing schools and the economy but he was under enormous pressure from ill wishers and even supporters.
Butkus51 said:
Remember in the 60s and 70s the government would infiltrate organizations. We took it for granted.
Whereas now, since infiltrating involves work and there are precious few dissident organizations anyway, the government creates sockpuppet orgs that support their narrative. Such as Patriot Front, that group of masked-up marching navy/khaki Feds this past weekend.
“You Trumpers here who, like the Kennedy Kid, spit on COVID as any sort of threat, as a fraud, a ploy to destroy the US economy, etc., and see the COVID vax similarly as either a hoax, a menace to health or both, or whatever other crazed fantasies you harbor…”
Not hoax really, but ultimately a scam. For many of its proponents, they really didn’t know any better. Not so sure with Pfizer, Moderna, the FDA and CDC. Side effects started popping up after the second jab, in spring of 2021. By July, with the P Town Gay Fest Superspreader event, it was obvious that the estimates of vaccine efficacy were exaggerated. August found Delta pushing out older variants, and efficacy started dropping more quickly. Then, with Omicron pushing out Delta in December, efficacy dropped through the floor, because the virus had (as Dr K suggested) mutated around the mRNA vaccines. There was a 100% mismatch between the mRNA vaccines and the spike proteins generated by the vaccines. Still, they persisted, and continued to deplete people’s immune system by forcing them to fight the mRNA produced Wuhan spike proteins for months after each injection.
This last week, the CDC quietly removed the claims that the mRNA was quickly broken down by the immune system. It isn’t. It has been found 4 months after injection, and can often be detected after two months. And Pfizer, and probably Moderna, likely knew this from the start. This became evident when Pfizer admitted that their original goal was to get the mRNA to the lymph nodes, and to have it not break down at the injection site. This was apparently one of the reasons that the natural Uridine in mRNA was replaced by N1 Methylpseudouridine in the vaccines. For one thing, it hides the mRNA from the immune system (key to getting the mRNA to the lymph nodes). But, of course, the mRNA didn’t stop in the lymphatic system, but rapidly ended up in the circulatory system, and hence caused many of its side effects, as it spread out throughout the body. After the first injection, immune systems knew that the Wuhan spike proteins were antigens, and killed cells exhibiting them, wherever they were found. If they accumulated in heart muscles, people got myocarditis, as the heart muscles exhibiting them were killed. Etc.
What do you think of Trump's accomplishment (or his taking claim for the accomplishment) of having produced a vaccine so swiftly?
Then or now, Robert? At the time it seemed like Operation Warp Speed was a success, but by the time the FDA "approved" it I was 100% in the skeptic camp, having been alarmed by the steady stream of misinformation from the COVID Task Force via Fauci and Birx. Now I know they were working on the "vaccine" before we even had a declared pandemic and can see they just lured Trump into being their pitch man for it. The whole rushed process was a farce. It was obvious politicians and not epidemiologists were running the show. Outlawing off-label cured using safe drugs was another big clue.
What do you want him to say now, Robert? That he didn't actually affect anything with Warp Speed? That he was fooled along with the rest of the sheep? That he'll never listen to 40-year G12 salarymen again? Your side would have been leading the impeachment again if he had fired Fauci and we all know it. I'm so disgusted I want the Feds completely out of Public Health issues because they can't be trusted with health care.
Mr. Cook -
I don't give politicians credit for medical advancements, vaccinations. etc.
It is very clear that Fauci pocketed millions in kick-backs from The mega-corporate medical industrial complex. It stands to reason why Fauci was a hero to the loyal left. Progressives around my town displayed pro-Fauci bumper stickers. Science! Jab jab jab at every turn. Ignoring the fact that is was untested. People with multiple jabs and boosters still got covid. Easy to say "but less severe". easy.
Now young men are experiencing heart problems. We don't hear about that in the hack-press like we should.
*now with less blank space*
We all understand our good faith answers to Cook's question won't be reciprocated next time we question crazy socialists, but we are generous that way. Conservatives are givers.
Robert Cook, that question could just as easily be asked of the TDS-afflicted. What do *you* think of his accomplishment of having produced a vaccine so swiftly? All the big brains on the left think the COVID shots are a miracle, yet they give Trump no credit, even though his shoveling billions of dollars at Big Pharma was the reason the vaccines were created. He should be your hero. Yet the leftist intelligentsia's praise is all directed at Fauci, Pfizer and Moderna.
To be clear, I'm happy for that trio to be seen as responsible, given the hundreds of thousands of adverse events (including tens of thousands of deaths -- with that "safety" profile, it would have been pulled from the market after about 36 hours if it had been subject to the same standards as all other new vaccines), the ongoing sky-high non-COVID all-cause mortality levels in countries that used the mRNA shots, and of course the unfortunate and inconvenient fact that they don't stop infection or transmission (in fact their efficacy is negative after a few months -- meaning they make you *more* likely to be infected). I just find it curious that you apparently thought your question was a real gotcha of a dilemma when it's just as applicable to your side.
The Kennedy Kid. That's a good one, Robert.
I said here at the time that I didn't trust the rushed vaccines, and was a late and reluctant submitter to the first two Pfizer doses, and that Trump was not relevant to the issue. He was obviously in over his head and being played by experts--experts at working the bureaucracy and media, and fundamentally transforming the country-if not at stopping major health threats.
Others have already explained the reasons for RFKj's appeal to potential voters, and why he's being treated like Trump was--Beltway Outsideritis--so there's no need to rehearse them.
Strongly disagree with RFK Jr on covid.(I've had 5 Pfizer shots and have never been diagnosed with covid.) But as the field stands now he'll still get my primary vote.
I remember back in 2004 not knowing very much about Kennedy Jr when he wrote an article in Rolling Stone attempting to prove that Bush stole the 2004 election from Kerry. The article was devoid of facts and full of gibberish. I concluded then that Kennedy was incompetent and nothing he has said or done since has caused me to change my mind.
Mike (MJB Wolf): "...but we are generous that way. Conservatives are givers."
Indeed. Cheerful givers and Happy Warriors.
Cookie is more a Red Guards In A Struggle Session sort of fanboy.
Kennedy is tainted with the anti vaxxer ideology. He can try to imitate Trump all he wants, Democrats are not going to vote for him in significant numbers. He won’t get the nomination. I wish Biden would announce he wasn’t running, but even Biden is better than the alternative, Trump.
This is an interesting development. Maybe Kennedy realizes he has to distance himself from these far right loons if he seriously expects the Democratic nomination.
RFK Jr. not participating in far-right event after being listed as a speaker, aide says
The Democratic presidential candidate has participated in the far-right event in the past, but he is not going this year.
Democratic presidential candidate Robert Kennedy Jr. will not participate this weekend in a far-right Christian nationalist conference he has previously attended, his spokesperson said, despite being listed as a featured speaker on the event’s website.
““Mr. Kennedy is not a featured speaker for the upcoming tour. We have put in a request to have his photo removed,” Kennedy's communications director, Stefanie Spear, said in a text message.”
"It has been found 4 months after injection, and can often be detected after two months"
Longer than that.
The Durham report was released today. It clearly shows a real conspiracy that occurred to prevent a duly elected President from serving his country on behalf of his opposition's campaign. Conspiracies are a real thing and happen way too often. Unfortunately, the conspiracy against Trump and the US electorate is complete. If you are expecting accountability, this is the start of the final paragraph of the Executive Summary: "This report does not recommend any wholesale changes in the guidelines and policies that the Department and the FBI now have in place to ensure proper conduct and accountability in how counterintelligence activities are carried out."
As Jupiter said, what is this "destructive distrust in the electorate" that Bai claims Kennedy is demonstrating? IFanything, a man who claims that our government is "wholly owned and controlled by corporations [and] nefarious powers in both parties hellbent on enslaving people with bureaucratic mandates" would seem to be informing the electorate, trusting them to deal with the problem.
Gee, when I GOOGLE “clinical endpoints COVID vaccine” I see that, yes, “preventing symptomatic transmission” was what the researchers were trying to do. Not preventing asymptomatic transmission, which has no impact on the subject or the healthcare resources strained by the pandemic.
But what do I know? I’m just looking at the facts here and not trying to enable a bunch of conspiracy theorists with no inclination to read, determine the facts, and come to a relevant conclusion. Certainly not with this vague use of the royal form of the first person plural pronoun “we.” Pretty easy to assert what “we were told,” when no citation is offered for what was actually said.
The relationship conservative conspiracists have with the facts is like a couple in therapy where one insists that they don’t care what was said, Since only what “they heard” matters to them. Transcripts be damned and no responsibility taken for accurately listening to what was said and meant.
No one who calls the pandemic “hyped” actually treated the people affected by it, and would only be sought out as a doctor to treat them for it by the type of patients who feel that homeopathy, crystals or bowel cleanses are undervalued healthcare treatments.
Hundreds of thousands of dead Americans are ok with the Trumpsters because as everyone knows, they value money and pumping up the Trump propaganda machine more.
Here’s another thing to GOOGLE: “COVID deaths counties by Trump support.” It’s fascinating to watch how suicidal these red state and red county Republicans are. They are so prideful in their ignorance that they preferred dying by wrongly misdiagnosing their COVID as lung cancer as they were wheeled into the emergency rooms than by actually taking the MAGA-phones out of their ears and listening.
Same as how the Trump-supporting counties are the poorest and suffer the highest rates of opioid deaths and social dysfunction. Not learning from the failures of their horrific policies is entirely the point. They would rather show their pride in supporting the “strong” politicians who are killing and impoverishing them. They will never listen to anything that tells them otherwise, even as they were being intubated and asked to name their next of kin and durable POA.
Darwinian evolution in action.
"Was "the main point of the vaccine... to stop those variants from killing us at intolerable rates"? Didn't that just become the main point after it turned out that's all the vaccine was doing? Back when we eagerly lined up to get the vaccine, we believed it would keep us from catching the disease."
"All" the vaccine did was "stop those variants from killing us at intolerable rates"?
One of Althouse's all time great space cadet comments.
I got COVID two weeks after my second booster. I tell myself the vaccine mitigated the symptoms, which were not severe, but I don’t know that for certain. I've had to accept a certain level of agnosticism on all this. My employer required the shots. I would have gotten them even if it wasn’t required. I figured the probability was in my favor that the vaccine would help me, or at least not hurt.
I noticed the goalpost shift from preventing COVID to mitigating effects. What’s unsettling is how ardent vaccine supporters didn’t notice the goalposts move or were unwilling to admit it. They seamlessly adopted the new party line.
Well, my family heard from Hopkins doctors very early on: The vaccine will help you not catch the virus. But it will virtually guarantee that you don't get very sick or die.
That turned out to be pretty accurate.
Trump could have pivoted at some point aginst the captured regulatory agencies colluding with Pharma as an extension of the deep/administrative state.
It's problemmatic that he has only reduced the incidences of praising the jabs.
I saw him in an interview catch himself when he began to brag "I got the FDA to.."
It's odd that his biggest cheeleaders like Bannon and Navarro hanner the issue but never address this. It's sad since in the past he he had some concerns over the childhood vax schedule. He has a number of good instincts but is too pigheaded to admit when snookered.
Has he heard of Maddy DeGara?
Does that haunt him?
However, the alternative Dems are worse on the issue...barring RFKjr.
They could be beating Trump up on this but they have dug the hole deeper.
Also, Trump should be very (publicly) pissed the oft Forgotten but instrumental Scarfy Birx admitted in her book about misleading him as well as the public.
Scott Atlas has repeatedly said she drove policy and ignored data he and otherss presented.
Robert Marshall-
Good suggestion. There's also Blog Comment Killfile, which works well in Chrome (Firefox version as well) and this blog so users could self-moderate comments instead of the tedious and slow author moderation.
So, if I get the polio vaccine I'll end up getting just a little bit of polio, like a day or two's worth? I mean, I won't end up like FDR, I'll be back on my feet in no time!
What the fuck does the word VACCINE actually mean? Can "nurse" Inga tell us?
I got the original two Covid shots and then two boosters, the last being the bivalent. I never got Covid in any variant. I don’t know if the shots prevented me from getting it, or possibly making me be asymptomatic. I’ve had no adverse reactions from the Covid shots at all.
"What do you think of his accomplishment of having produced a vaccine so swiftly? "
Let me take this, together with others, baits:
Actually, whatever you think about vaccine itself, and its efficacy, its production was brillianty organized, I don't think anyone really doubts that. Trump is able to cut through all nonsense and he delivers, and works excellently under pressure. I am not sure why would it be difficult to admit that. [There is an issue of whether pushing for an "American vaccine" damaged introduction of what are more standard approaches, like rapidly adapted existing MERS vaccine - yes, as in Sputnik]
That said, I think, Trump also made the same calculation as Boris Johnson -- if we does not close the country, he would own every single death from COVID, NYT would be publishing individual names of "his victims" on a daily basis. If he closes the country, there will be competing narratives, and, at least, he could claim that he saved lives vs. the worst (to my mind useless) predictions by modellers. Trump's' treatment of Kemp was shameful, a clear attempt to prevent someone taking credit for what (Trump suspected) was an appropriate response, and also an attempt to get back at someone who refused a favor (that appointment). Trump at his worst.
Finally, let me speculate: there is a good chance that a lot of Trump's' behavior at the time came down to his "chemistry" with Birx. Notice how he looks at her during their joint presentations, when she would start doing numbers. It is very difficult to miss how much he enjoyed co-hosting a show with (what he perceived) an independent, strong and intelligent woman ...
The country should be up in arms that the Intel Agencies along with the Obama/ Clinton regimes lied about a fake Russian Collusion that cost us millions, if not billions while they interferred with an election and defamed an innocent man and his supporters, but they aren't. We are over as a country.
MikeR said...
"Well, my family heard from Hopkins doctors very early on: The vaccine will help you not catch the virus. But it will virtually guarantee that you don't get very sick or die.
That turned out to be pretty accurate."
That's what my MD told me from the beginning and I trusted him rather than some talking head on cable news.
Why shouldn't Trump talk about conspiracies against him, with contempt radiating from every cell in his body? The FBI and CIA and DOJ and the media and a bunch of FISA judges who we are all supposed to trust screwed him over because of ludicrous stories made up by the Clinton campaign that he was an honest to God traitor. And it was all bullshit and innuendo without a speck of hard evidence.
They'll keep doing it, and doing the same kind of thing to just about anyone, because they get away with it and will keep getting away with it. The US government uses its domestic powers brutally if it wants to. It can run roughshod over you and ruin your life plenty of ways. And it has grabbed ever more ways to avail itself of in the last generation.
It's exactly what the republic was created to prevent.
“To be clear, I'm happy for that trio to be seen as responsible, given the hundreds of thousands of adverse events (including tens of thousands of deaths -- with that "safety" profile…”
To be clear, this is disinformation. What “tens of thousands of deaths”? Where do you get nonsense from?
“Hundreds of thousands of dead Americans are ok with the Trumpsters because as everyone knows, they value money and pumping up the Trump propaganda machine more. “
Everyone knows that 100,000 dead people value money, and I thought you could not take it with you.
Poetry, or psychosis, who can tell.
“Well, my family heard from Hopkins doctors very early on: The vaccine will help you not catch the virus. But it will virtually guarantee that you don't get very sick or die.”
“That turned out to be pretty accurate”
Maybe, in the Spring of 2021. But probably not after 12/21. Why? Because the variants circulating in early 2021 had spike proteins similar to those produced by the vaccines. Those vaccines though weren’t much use preventing breakthrough infections by June of that year, at the P-Town Superspreader event. A milder Delta pushed out the earlier strains in August, and was in turn pushed out by Omicron in December. And the mRNA vaccines did little, if anything, against Omicron - it couldn’t, because there was a 100% mismatch between the vaccines and the Omicron spike proteins. Most of the people catching COVID-19 in 2023 have been fully Vaxed and boosted.
Best to stick with Crook Biden.
Crooks are fine.
Anti-vaxx? Holy cow.... No! best to stick with the corrupt money grubbing lying evil crook family.
The Bidens.
To review:
Trump is like Trump.
DeSantis is like Trump.
The rest of the Republican field is like Trump.
Kennedy is like Trump.
And Trump is up in the polls against Biden.
Walter said..
"He [trump] has a number of good instincts but is too pigheaded to admit when snookered."
Careful - Trumps royal guard gets prickly.
Blogger MikeR said...
Well, my family heard from Hopkins doctors very early on: The vaccine will help you not catch the virus. But it will virtually guarantee that you don't get very sick or die. That turned out to be pretty accurate.
--
Good grief. The metrics on this were so fucked, gotta be kidding.
pudding said...
" Pretty easy to assert what “we were told,” when no citation is offered for what was actually said.
Althouse and her crowd have never been real big on citations.
Mutaman said...
"pudding said...
" Pretty easy to assert what “we were told,” when no citation is offered for what was actually said.
Althouse and her crowd have never been real big on citations."
Said they guy who has never left a citation.
My cardiologist said that with my co-morbidities I should get the shot. As with the boosters, " Meh. Couldn't hurt." I got Covid anyway. In a much milder form. So. Good for the shots. We did discuss natural immunities. He said he wouldn't give the vaccine to anyone under 30 in good health because the chance of someone in that cohort of dying from the disease was statistically less than the harm that might be caused by the vaccine.
" I got Covid anyway. In a much milder form. So. Good for the shots"
Ummm...
The Kennedy I'd like to see run is the one from Louisiana.
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