Althouse: "We had a guy pull in the other day towing a big boat. He asked us how to get to the launch ramp to the lake. I don’t think he realised he was looking at a lake of solar panels."

May 21, 2023

"We had a guy pull in the other day towing a big boat. He asked us how to get to the launch ramp to the lake. I don’t think he realised he was looking at a lake of solar panels."

From "How solar farms took over the California desert: 'An oasis has become a dead sea'/ Residents feel trapped and choked by dust, while experts warn environmental damage is 'solving one problem by creating others'" (The Guardian).

What solution is not also a new problem? The question is whether the solution is worse than the problem.

These western deserts are vast and contain few residents. Isn't there plenty of space to go ahead and screw up with seas of solar panels?

67 comments:

Old and slow said...: If solar panels were an efficient and reliable source of energy, I'd be all for it. They are not.; 5/21/23, 7:54 AM
gilbar said...: Isn't there plenty of space to go ahead and screw up with seas of solar panels?

truly spoken like someone that doesn't live there, hasn't been there, won't go there.
Aren't there TWO lakes in Madison? Shouldn't they cover (at least 1) with panels? Plenty of space!; 5/21/23, 8:02 AM
gilbar said...: Come to think of it. Those dawn access points of yours would be PERFECT solar farm sites!; 5/21/23, 8:03 AM
Creola Soul said...: Desert solar projects are bird killers. The panels look like water to bugs and birds. As they near the panels they get zapped by the concentrated solar beam. The dead bugs and birds draw more bugs and birds and other predators to eat the carrion. The companies try to keep the panels clean but that takes water and you’re in a desert. It’s really messy.
The other little secret of these concentrating solar projects is that they use a lot of natural gas. In the predawn hours the steam boiler is preheated to get it to a steam stage, otherwise it would take most of the day for the solar alone to reach steam.
These projects are not as green as they seem and visually they despoil the desert vistas.; 5/21/23, 8:04 AM
RideSpaceMountain said...: "solving one problem by creating others"

I liked one environmental skeptic's presentation years ago in Britain where he was explaining how many birds were being killed by wind turbines. He estimated the number at 300-400,000 large macropredatory birds were being killed every year in the UK alone.

So he went to a wind farm and took pictures of dead birds he found laying on the ground that had been hit by the blades and put the pictures up on his presentation and said, "Now if this dead hawk were covered in oil from a tanker spill it would be plastered on every nightly tv news station and on every newspaper around the world calling for action against this environmentally disastrous industry."

As Brits would say, "strange that eh?"; 5/21/23, 8:06 AM
Owen said...: Climate change is the biggest scam in human history. The grifters and idiots poisoning the deserts with solar panels and the ridgelines with windmills, and the landfills with both, will never be brought to account. And the greatest damage isn’t even tangible: it’s the destruction of institutional credibility. “Climate science” is nothing of the kind, and as the fraud is revealed our industrial civilization is very likely going to collapse.

But other than that? Have a nice day.

PS: anybody who wants to offer an opinion on “climate science,” should read Alan Longhurst’s very recent book, “Doubt and Certainty In Climate Science.” Masterful.; 5/21/23, 8:09 AM
Humperdink said...: When I get on I-90 in western NY (which is often) I see wind turbines at every interchange. They have not turned one rotation since they have been installed years ago. And they will never turn a rotation. Ignoring wind shear calculations has rendered them inoperable. An eyesore of eyesores. It was former Gov. Andrew Cuomo's pipe dream. If there is ever an R governor (my pipe dream), he/she needs to hang a banner on them labelled Cuomo's folly. Rub his and the lefty nose's in it.; 5/21/23, 8:18 AM
tim maguire said...: The question is whether the solution is worse than the problem. … Isn't there plenty of space to go ahead and screw up with seas of solar panels?

Skipping a step is typically more effective if you don’t first emphasize the importance of not skipping a step. (And, really, it’s 2 steps—not merely is the solution better than the problem, but is it the best solution?); 5/21/23, 8:20 AM
Joe Biden, America's Putin said...: I'm glad you posted this. It gives me an opportunity to share something local about solar panels..

Circa 2008 - when Obama came to town and the nation was exploding with Obama-worship..
recall the DNC convention was in Denver for 2008's election - & preparations took place.

A friend of mine-- her husband owns and operates a Commercial Electric Company. He did a lot of work out at DIA (Denver International Airport) over the years. A lot. In fact if you are ever in the security line at DIA, look up at the curved monitors that wrap the large columns. That was one of the last projects he did out there. (I won't mention a different story about how, now, only minority and female run companies are allowed work out there)

He told me that in all the years he worked out there he never once saw the connection of the solar panels to any electrical in the building. Nothing. No connection. And he knew every inch of that place. (also keep in mind this guy is not a conservative at all.)

DIA - has fake installation of solar panels that were never hooked up. At least that is what he said.

I took the bus to the airport a few weeks back for a short long weekend trip. As the bus swung around the big curve, I looked down at the solar panels. They are gone. All that is left are the posts that used to hold the panels up above the ground.

Our tax dollars hard at work. Fake solar panels only last so long.; 5/21/23, 8:30 AM
Joe Biden, America's Putin said...: The know-it-all corrupt left do not give two shits about consequences.; 5/21/23, 8:34 AM
mikee said...: What is the desert equivalent of a snail darter?; 5/21/23, 8:42 AM
Yancey Ward said...: "We had a guy the other day pull over towing a big boat....."

I will take "Things That Never Happened" for $1000, Alex.; 5/21/23, 8:43 AM
Temujin said...: There have been zero new reservoirs or aqueducts built in California in over 40 years. This past record setting winter of snow and rain, a winter in which they could have backed up enough water to get them through droughts, they were not ready for it. So while their water sources have been replenished a bit, they are far from where they could be as a State.

As far as solar (and wind turbines), there is so much that is still not spoken of when it comes to these alternatives. Solar requires certain minerals that are harder and harder to come by (and more and more expensive and more often from mines the Chinese have purchased). When solar panels need to be replaced- you've got hazardous chemical waste to deal with. And the easiest complaint is the lack of efficiency of solar panels vs the land mass required to lay enough out to power a city, or a metropolitan area or megalopolis. We will be eliminating huge swaths of land mass to build solar farms that can actually produce enough electricity to power cities. And in the midwest, northeast, northwest, you have months of the year where overcast skies are the norm. It makes no sense to use solar as the answer.

Wind turbines are even less efficient, also require rare earth minerals, have to be carefully disposed of when they break. And...they do break. Often. Sometimes they just fall over. And as we have seen, come cold weather, they don't work well, or can even freeze up. And again, they take up massive land space. People living around them complain about a constant low humming noise. And...they kill birds. I'll believe they're a good source of energy when John Kerry allows one near his home.

I don't know how solar and wind turbines because the accepted go-to. Maybe or probably because there's nothing else the Climate Cult has to offer up immediately. I am all for finding an alternative source of energy. One that is economically doable. Does not require rare earth mineral mining from the Heart of Darkness. One that is easily produced and/or easily transported to all ends of the earth. But it is not solar or wind. We have to keep producing fossil fuels- here in America and elsewhere- until we find a real, economically feasible, scalable source. Perhaps hydrogen. Perhaps fission. Perhaps something we've not heard of yet. But we're not there yet and attempts to cut of fossil fuels before we're ready will end up creating chaos around the world.; 5/21/23, 8:52 AM
rehajm said...: What's the problem it is solving?; 5/21/23, 8:58 AM
Michael K said...: Roof top solar panels may be worthwhile. My son put them on his roof a few years ago and has no Edison bill. Reverse metering, which takes care of night power use, is about to be ended by CA I am told. I put them on my roof in AZ which should be the ideal place for them. I don't know if it will be worth it as it has been 6 months and they still aren't hooked up by TEP, the local utility. The desert solar farms are a monstrosity that kill birds but are still not as evil as windmills that are solely due to subsidies and kill millions and bats and thousands of eagles.; 5/21/23, 9:04 AM
CHMCM said...: The western wasteland is not the problem. They can have the desert. They, however, are also putting in miles and miles of solar farms in east Texas ruining a beautiful landscape and taking acres of productive farmland out of production. Not to mention, the issue of potential contamination of the water supply. Texas currently has no mechanism in place to regulate these installations.; 5/21/23, 9:05 AM
Ann Althouse said...: "Aren't there TWO lakes in Madison? Shouldn't they cover (at least 1) with panels? Plenty of space!"

There are FIVE lakes in Madison: Mendota, Monona, Waubesa, Kegonsa, and Wingra.

Is there a better city of lakes? Tell me about it. I know it might be better to have one big lake — like, say, Marquette, Michigan — but for multiple lakes, what's better than Madison?; 5/21/23, 9:07 AM
hawkeyedjb said...: How can you compare some minor inconveniences for little people against the incalculable value of a politician feeling good about herself?; 5/21/23, 9:09 AM
Joe Biden, America's Putin said...: Temujin - same with Hawaii.
There is an inundation of housing developments and population growth.
The roads are terrible and the local one-party rule/democrat party strangle-hold on the state - they do nothing to build needed reservoirs or infrastructure. The local leftists do know how bitch and moan, blame others, do nothing, hike taxes and waste money non-stop.; 5/21/23, 9:10 AM
Ann Althouse said...: "I will take "Things That Never Happened" for $1000, Alex."

I agree. I don't believe guys drive around with big boats just eyeing the landscape and heading toward what seems to be water and asking locals about boat launches.

In the time that this solar panel farm has been around, boaters have been able to check in advance about where they're going to want to drag their boat, especially if it's big. Don't you need depth? You can't just go looking for something wide.; 5/21/23, 9:12 AM
Joe Biden, America's Putin said...: If you are hauling a boat to get to a lake you had in mind, and you see what looks like another lake on the way - you might stop to ask about it.; 5/21/23, 9:23 AM
Wince said...: Althouse said...
I agree. I don't believe guys drive around with big boats just eyeing the landscape and heading toward what seems to be water and asking locals about boat launches.

Talk about a mirage...

It took over 50 years, but California has finally adopted Jethro Bodine's concepts about energy and pollution.; 5/21/23, 9:26 AM
Mason G said...: "If solar panels were an efficient and reliable source of energy, I'd be all for it. They are not."

If solar panels were an efficient and reliable source of energy, the government wouldn't need to pay people to put them up. Of course, in that case, they'd be standing in the way of putting them up.; 5/21/23, 9:43 AM
MayBee said...: The weirdest twist in the energy cult is the drive to make gas stoves illegal. Where is that coming from, do we think?; 5/21/23, 9:49 AM
JaimeRoberto said...: California Flats is a large solar farm on the Hearst Ranch near Cholame. It covers 2900 acres and a capacity of 280 MW. Of course at night it generates nothing. Diablo Canyon nuclear generates 10x that amount on a fraction of the land and it works at night. To replace Diablo Canyon we'd need to cover an area the size of San Francisco, and then we'd still need another power plant to deliver power at night. Solar farms may make people feel good, but they require a massive amount of land for only intermittent power.; 5/21/23, 9:53 AM
minnesota farm guy said...: Windmills and solar panels are a blight on the landscape and will never provide sufficient power when and where needed. The new small nukes that Bill Gates is pushing are the only answer if you believe we should phase out of fossil fuels, but don't want to live like a cave man/woman.; 5/21/23, 9:54 AM
Mason G said...: "As far as solar (and wind turbines), there is so much that is still not spoken of when it comes to these alternatives."

Ain't that the truth? If you're being honest, you need the capacity to generate all of the power you need 100% of the time, not just when the sun is shining or the wind is blowing. That means you either need backup fossil fuel generators (in which case you're now paying for two generation systems instead of one, so why not ditch solar/wind and stick with what's reliable?) or you need massive batteries, which do not exist.

"What's the problem it is solving?"

Assuming that "it" is wind/solar power, the problem it is solving is allowing for the government to control where people live, where they go and how they get there (or not, as the case may be).

Anybody who is interested in the viability of wind/solar power should check out the Manhattan Contrarian, there are regular articles on the subject.; 5/21/23, 9:59 AM
n.n said...: The Green blight spreads over land and sea.; 5/21/23, 10:15 AM
cassandra lite said...: Wind and solar farms are permanent blots on the landscape and skyscrape that solve no problem which wasn't invented by man -- and even if climate change were solvable, what California does by itself, or even the US does by itself, is spit in the ocean as long as China continues building coal plants by the dozens.

Of course, this is perfect for California politicians. They love Potemkin solutions.; 5/21/23, 10:22 AM
Bruce Hayden said...: “That was one of the last projects he did out there. (I won't mention a different story about how, now, only minority and female run companies are allowed work out there)”

DIA was built during the reign of Mayor Wellington Webb, who was one of the first modern Dem machine politicians in the state. To them, the purpose of power is to enrich your cronies and constituencies. Sounds familiar? That’s what cities like Chicago have had for many decades. It was a money making opportunity from the first - Stapleton was a perfectly adequate airport, with more runways, and esp all weather runways, than most comparable airports around the country. And it was convenient, close to downtown, like Phoenix, Las Vegas, etc. Supposedly, the problem was that any runway additions or lengthening would be over Rocky Mountain Arsenal, a Superfund Site. Which turns out to have been silly - it’s now a large wildlife refuge, and the deer there don’t have two heads. It was for the spending, pure and simple.

Not surprisingly, the airport was significantly over budget. The first hit was on land acquisition. Ran over by a half billion dollars, because in the year before it was bought, insiders bought up the land, then sold it to the City (and County) of Denver at an inflated price. Growing up in the area, with my father a lawyer, and my mother active in politics, I recognized most of the names. The grandmother of one of the kids that my daughter went to prep school with had a mansion that we called the House that DIA Built. It was stupidly sited, right at the line dividing the still air protected by the mountains and the plains, thus subject to significantly increased turbulence.

But then Webb, Denver’s first Black Mayor, used Affirmative Action to award a lot of the contracts for construction. The result was higher costs for lower quality. Many of them had little to none experience. They got their contracts based primarily on skin color. The result was that there was a lot of do overs. Marble cracked shortly after installation, as well as one of the runways, which all had to be replaced.

Still, it turned out to be a beautiful airport, and probably the best major hub airport in the country (it just sucks for those living any direction from Denver than east). I no longer fly in and out of it every other week, as I did for over a decade, but it’s still my favorite.; 5/21/23, 10:26 AM
Mike of Snoqualmie said...: Windmill towers collapses are common. They usually collapse around the midpoint of the tower. The designers sized the towers for static (steady) loads, but undersized them for dynamic loads. A round tower always sheds oscillating vortices, and if the frequency is right, these vortices could shake the tower to death as what happened to the original Tacoma Narrows bridge (Galloping Gertie).

The power density of a windmill is much, much less than that of a coal, gas or nuclear plant. A conventional power plant might take a square mile of land, a windmill farm would require 50 square miles for the same power.; 5/21/23, 10:41 AM
Owen said...: The destabilization of the grid is proceeding apace. I'm kinda nuts about exponential processes, so please challenge me when I say that the failure cascade (already demonstrated over and over --with every blackout) is exponential. We're still on the "flat part" of the curve; or nearly so; but the curve is there. And we are not wired to appreciate (or deal well with) exponential curves. They always surprise us, and not in a good way.

/rant.

PS: Mason G at 9:59 AM speaks truth about Francis Menton and his "Manhattan Contrarian" blog. He's not the only voice calling in the wilderness, but his thinking and writing are very clear and relevant.; 5/21/23, 10:46 AM
Michael said...: You can see them from miles away from your window seat as you head to California. Ghastly violent bright. Sections, square miles. A scar on the beautiful desert. A rape.; 5/21/23, 10:46 AM
JK Brown said...: Well, "seas" of solar panels will change the local climate. All that sunshine energy wasn't just disappearing. It was being absorbed by the desert, used by the plants and animals. Will intercepting it so that the heat is in the air instead of the ground as the panels dissipate it leaving the soil in the shade? Well, they seem to ignore that.

Right now, we aren't really taking that much solar/wind energy to seemingly have a severe impact, but it was energy that was going into the earth that is now being divert so sooner or later it will have an impact.

Keep in mind, the "climate change" crisis is not in solar energy incidence but rather the claim that not enough of that energy is being radiated back into space to maintain a balance due to the infra-red reflecting properties of CO2 back to the ground.

What we never see are the satellite thermal imaging showing the Earth's thermal radiance changing.; 5/21/23, 10:53 AM
JK Brown said...: "They are gone. All that is left are the posts that used to hold the panels up above the ground. "

So they've gone the way of drive-in theaters; 5/21/23, 10:58 AM
John henry said...: We've had a lot of predictions of what would happen in 10 years going back to 1990. Arctic melted by 2000,2013, 2020 west side highway underwater by 2000,mass starvation, 5 degrees temp rise and so on.

It is now 2023 Does anyone have any examples of climate whatsit coming to pass?

Or is it just more pushing the prediction time line forward.

John Henry; 5/21/23, 10:59 AM
John henry said...: The sun shines, on average 12 hours a day.

The first and last 3 hours it is too low to generate much juice. More in higher latitudes.

So 6 hours of usable solar power daily under optimal conditions.

What do you do for the other 18 hours? Huddle in the dark under blankets ?

John Henry

It's LGBTQ time again. Let's get Brandon to quit!; 5/21/23, 11:05 AM
John henry said...: JaimeRoberto said...

California Flats is a large solar farm on the Hearst Ranch near Cholame. It covers 2900 acres and a capacity of 280 MW

Not your fault, Jaime. It is just part of the solar scam.

The 280mw drives me nuts. It is the nominal or nameplate rating. We need actual, not theoretical capacity.

It is probably closer to 20% of that or 56 actual mw. Unlike Diablo canyon, which can run at 100% of nominal rating for weeks or months at a time. Probably 100 plus for short periods.

Solar is also not dispatchable or even predictable. You just have to take what you can get.

As I said, not your fault. But we should all be in the habit of talking about actual rather than nominal capacity with wind and solar.

John Henry; 5/21/23, 11:18 AM
Mike (MJB Wolf) said...: 1. Solar and wind bullshit is killing California by creating electricity shortages at peak times (costing us more as consumers than legacy energy) meaning rolling blackouts.
2. During non-peak hours (when sun is shining and wind is blowing) energy companies are required by law to prioritize W&S sourcing so they must use the expensive intermittent new energy but keep all legacy energy sources active (in case a cloud rolls over or the wind shifts) and sell that “excess” legacy power at a loss to neighboring states thereby (again) costing us more as consumers.
3. All “Green” energy except hydro or nuke is a scam that displaces pollution not prevents it because we can’t stop the legacy supply without turning into Germany. It is a blatant lie to sell Green energy as a “reduction” in emissions.; 5/21/23, 11:25 AM
John henry said...: To Jamie's point about relative size here's a Google earth shot of the AES facility in Guayama pr.

It is a 454mw (actual) coal plant. On adjacent property AES built a 4mw (actual) solar plant. @1% of the coal plant capacity. 5-10 times the acreage

You could fit 3-4 of the coal plants onto the solar site

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-hT2oxxgFm5w/WkPaXzUzP3I/AAAAAAAAACA/Du_cjOkcn9UZL9-Ilhg1_r3rYHC26I--wCLcBGAs/s320/AES%2BGuayama.png

John LGKTQ Henry; 5/21/23, 11:26 AM
Gospace said...: Humperdink said...
When I get on I-90 in western NY (which is often) I see wind turbines at every interchange.

I travel frequently between Syracuse and Rochester- I don't see them... Of course, that's CNY, not WNY. However, travelling the back roads I see lot's of solar projects. All paid for with my mony. Not directly, but through tax sybsidies. Lot's of solar panels. Where half the year it's nighttime- and they produce no power, requiring backup or storage. Oh, wait- that's everywhere. 2 quick quotes from an internet search: "Rochester gets some kind of precipitation, on average, 142 days per year." When that's snow- it covers the panels for days unless someone goes out and sweeps them off. "On average, there are 165 sunny days per year in Rochester (zip 14625). The US average is 205 sunny days." SO less then half th days- 165- are sunny, ideal for procucing power. And some of those really sunny days are the days immediately following snowstorms, when the panels are snow covered. And 40 less sunny days then the US average. So why exactly are we putting up solar panels?

Michael K said Roof top solar panels may be worthwhile. My son put them on his roof a few years ago and has no Edison bill. Reverse metering, which takes care of night power use, is about to be ended by CA I am told Good. Reverse metwering like that should be ended. Your son is getting RETAIL rates for excess daily power he produces, not wholesale rates. COmplete BS. And- he gets to use the utility as a giant battery- without paying directly for the infrastructure costs of building one. Everyone who can't afford to build panels, or who lives in an apartment or condo- is subsidizing hom without any benefit. Now, if he put a battery bank in his yard and cut his ties to the utility company, great! He's not going to do that. Way too expensive. Easier to freeload on the power comany and think you're being environmentally conscious. Has he plans for what to do with the panels when they stop producing?; 5/21/23, 11:46 AM
n.n said...: That means you either need backup...

The third way is to shunt electricity from an area that produces to an area with a deficit, thus the "innovation" of a large-scale grid, a mesh network to cover the gaps. That said, a Green blight that spreads over land and sea, and a world with, apparently, unlimited resources to satiate the demands of renewable, disposable resources in short time frames.; 5/21/23, 11:47 AM
Dude1394 said...: I know the damage that wind turbines do to the environment and particularly raptors. I've always also wondered what damage oceans of solar arrays do to the land that has suddenly been thrown into permanent shade. How many animals have been displaced, what about the flora?

Ah, don't care, there are political dollars to be made.; 5/21/23, 11:58 AM
Dude1394 said...: "I don't know how solar and wind turbines because the accepted go-to. Maybe or probably because there's nothing else the Climate Cult has to offer up immediately. I am all for finding an alternative source of energy. One that is economically doable."

Part of the reason wind turbines are popular IMO is that they are many times situated on farm land. It's a small footprint to add value to a farmer that is always gambling on weather, prices, etc. He is land rich. Probably the same with solar panels, people own the land, see a way to make a buck and lease the rights.

The problem is that the reason there are these dollars for them is because the government spending on the credit card subsidizing them. That is what messes up the market.; 5/21/23, 12:09 PM
Original Mike said...: I drove west of Madison about an hour yesterday. New wind farm with giant wind mills towering over people's homes. I can't imagine dealing with that. I really feel sorry for them.; 5/21/23, 12:15 PM
George Leroy Tirebiter said...: IMO, the key paragraph in that article:

Battaglia is optimistic that home energy storage is the answer. “Batteries are the future,” he says. “With solar panels on rooftops and batteries in homes, we’ll finally be able to cut the cord from the big utility companies. Soon, those fields of desert solar farms will be defunct – left as rusting relics of another age.”; 5/21/23, 12:17 PM
Mason G said...: gilbar: "truly spoken like someone that doesn't live there, hasn't been there, won't go there.
Aren't there TWO lakes in Madison? Shouldn't they cover (at least 1) with panels? Plenty of space!"

AA: "There are FIVE lakes in Madison: Mendota, Monona, Waubesa, Kegonsa, and Wingra."

gilbar: "Come to think of it. Those dawn access points of yours would be PERFECT solar farm sites!

Nobody needs five lakes. Drain four of them, use the water for something productive and put up solar farms in the lakebeds. If it's good enough for the desert southwest, it's good enough for Madison.; 5/21/23, 12:23 PM
Jupiter said...: "What's the problem it is solving?"

Unclaimed government incentives.; 5/21/23, 12:24 PM
Anthony said...: Well, the ultimate point of all this (besides the short-term graft and corruption) is to get everything running on electricity and then make sure electricity is in short supply and must be doled out by the government. Near-total control over nearly every aspect of everybody's lives. That's the end game.

I used to think dystopian nighmare movies were fiction but now I'm thinking a lot of people took them as How-To manuals. "Make 1984 Fiction Again" as they say.; 5/21/23, 12:45 PM
Free Manure While You Wait! said...: "There are FIVE lakes in Madison: Mendota, Monona, Waubesa, Kegonsa, and Wingra."

Be grateful that Madison will never have to rename any of them.; 5/21/23, 1:05 PM
Free Manure While You Wait! said...: "To replace Diablo Canyon we'd need to cover an area the size of San Francisco"

Go on...; 5/21/23, 1:08 PM
Free Manure While You Wait! said...: "Anybody who is interested in the viability of wind/solar power should check out the Manhattan Contrarian, there are regular articles on the subject."

And here, too:

www.nrel.gov; 5/21/23, 1:10 PM
Free Manure While You Wait! said...: "and the deer there don’t have two heads"

What a pity. One of those would be quite the conversation starter in my trophy room*.

* Skippy doesn't actually hunt; 5/21/23, 1:13 PM
Kate said...: You all are very free with labeling my corner of the country a wasteland.

When Congress decided to bury the country's nuclear waste outside of Vegas, NV fought back. The country has progressed, though, because the desert states no longer fight. The climate crisis shames everyone into submission. A beautiful natural environment is turned into an industrial abomination and the rest of the US justifies it.; 5/21/23, 1:41 PM
Joe Smith said...: 'I know it might be better to have one big lake — like, say, Marquette, Michigan — but for multiple lakes, what's better than Madison?'

Mandelbaum!; 5/21/23, 1:50 PM
Mason G said...: If you create a Venn diagram of...

1. Those who believe that recycling is necessary in order to avoid running out of landfill space

and

2. Those who believe there's plenty of space for solar panels

it would be a near perfect circle.; 5/21/23, 3:22 PM
Bunkypotatohead said...: In 20 years it will cost more to dispose of them than it cost to install them. And the environmentalists of the future will be protesting whatever is done to remove them for burial or recycling, since they're full of toxic material.; 5/21/23, 4:37 PM
PM said...: Solar arrays turn birds into wisps - streamers they call 'em.; 5/21/23, 5:35 PM
PM said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; 5/21/23, 5:48 PM
Nancy Reyes said...: A company is pressuring local farmers to let them put solar panels on our local rice fields here in the Philippines: why? to supply more power to Manila. And a thug has suggested we might want to sell our land to someone unnamed.
The high price of fertilizer and diesel is already theatening to bankrupt the local farmers, so some might take them up on it. But I see it as part of the battle of the greens vs poor people. Let them eat solar panels...; 5/21/23, 6:39 PM
boatbuilder said...: I predict that the dystopian future movies of 2030 will feature abandoned and deteriorating wind turbines and solar arrays blighting the landscape.; 5/21/23, 6:50 PM
KellyM said...: Drove through the Antelope Valley today on the way back to the Bay Area. This is the high desert between US 395 on the east side of the Sierra and the Tehachapi Pass going west to Bakersfield. The floor of the valley is covered in panels. From a distance they do shimmer like water, but no one would mistake it for a lake.

These are a blight on the desert. I love that area of California and it pains me to see the environment for the native plants and animals get compromised.; 5/21/23, 9:31 PM
Jamie said...: Isn't there plenty of space to go ahead and screw up with seas of solar panels?

If solar panels sprang full-fledged from the brow of Zeus, maybe. But they don't, so space is not the only, nor even the primary, consideration we should be looking at.; 5/21/23, 9:44 PM
gadfly said...: All this technology and no answer to the age-old question of where the carbon or radioactive-based electric generation plant will be built. If we cannot store electricity, except in tiny batteries, the desert must have a backup system using carbon or nuclear resources that California no longer will build - else they get blackouts when night comes.

Lots of ugly wind turbines with 150-foot blades are not the answer since not enough energy will be generated to meet demands when the desert winds decline.; 5/22/23, 4:11 AM
Mind your own business said...: Power needs to be generated close to where it is used to prevent excessive transmission losses. Put the panels, with their limited lifecycle, near metro areas and the landfills that will need to accept them in a few decades.; 5/22/23, 9:44 AM
Greg the Class Traitor said...: These western deserts are vast and contain few residents. Isn't there plenty of space to go ahead and screw up with seas of solar panels?

So why did they have to set them over an oasis?; 5/22/23, 12:05 PM
loudogblog said...: "I now have allergies that I’d never had before – my arms burn all day long and my nose is always running." Because of the extreme rainfall we've had in Southern California, most people are suffering from massively increased allergies. (Myself included.); 5/22/23, 1:39 PM