Writes Ross Barkan in "Trump Will Be Tough to Beat, if 1968 Is Any Guide" (NYT).
Brown = Pat Brown, whom Reagan had defeated for Governor of California in 1966. As Governor, Reagan was running in the 1968 presidential primary, so that makes him somewhat analogous to DeSantis, right now.
Obviously, Nixon beat Reagan. But is Trump like Nixon? Barkan says: "Nixon was far more introspective, methodical and policy-minded than Trump." That Nixon sound more like DeSantis. And wouldn't it be easy to say Trump is like Reagan? I picture those 2 smiling and optimistic.
Adding tags to this post, I see I have the tag "Trump is like Nixon." Ah! But I also have "Trump is like Reagan." I'll have to publish this post so I can click on the tags and see what made me see things like that.
But it's certainly the case that DeSantis, like Reagan, is running for President from his recently ascended-to position as Governor of a big state and is hoping to continue his ascent, and Trump, like Nixon, once held high national position and lost a presidential election and needed to rise again after a big fall.
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58 comments:
I believe Reagan did not defeat Jerry Brown, but rather his pappy, Edmund "Pat" Brown.
Noted that the author did not put this in actual quotes:
'whether we like it or not, the people want separation of the races.'
Someone show proof Reagan said this - or something like it. Otherwise - I call BS - and more Leftist Lying Liar who Lies.
The formerly anti Trump hack press are now in the tank promoting Trump.
As planned.
Trump is nothing like Nixon when it comes to geopolitical background or even political insight. But they did both have an obsession with how people saw them, what people said about them. (on the other hand, Trump did great, geopolitically speaking, while in office. He did things no other President had done and certainly kept a world more at peace than the current buffoons have managed to do.)
I don't remember Reagan as the spouting racist this guy portrays him as. I don't recall that he dismissed Johnson's 'landmark civil rights agenda' other than to speak in terms of huge government expansion (which it certainly was and continues to be). Lefties always think Conservatives ulterior motives are to keep Blacks in slavery, keep women indoors, and keep Jews out of their neighborhoods or country clubs.
None of that is true. Except for the keeping women indoors part. Kidding. I just wanted to see how many of you had a momentary "I knew it" thought.
No, it was Pat, Jerry's dad, the incumbent California Governor in 1966. (Jerry was probably studying to be a priest or maybe a beatnik then.)
According to your tags, Trump is hardly ever like Reagan and is often, because of impeachment, like Nixon.
If I must look at Trump/DeSantis as Nixon and Reagan, I more associate Trump with Reagan. As you said, he has the optimism. And fun. Nixon was dour, and so is DeSantis. It's the old, "who would you have a beer with" (even though Trump would not be drinking one). DeSantis would spend the entire beverage time lecturing me.
I think it's safe to say that Trump is like no one. There isn't any apples to apples comparison. What Trump did hasn't happened since Lincoln was elected.
Now do Biden and RFK Jr.
re-writing history is what liar leftists do best.
According to the liar left- Abraham Lincoln was a democrat.
The author wrote it was Brown, not Reagan, who said that, presumably sardonically.
"Brown, who remarked, shellshocked, after Reagan’s triumph that 'whether we like it or not, the people want separation of the races.' "
"Brown = Jerry Brown, whom Reagan had defeated for Governor of California in 1966."
ChatGPT: What have you done with Althouse?
Someone show proof Reagan said this - or something like it.
Pat Brown was being quoted, not Reagan.
yes reagan never said such things, but biden has said worse back in the 70s regarding busing and other matters, everything we were told about the consequences of the civil rights law, by the likes of hubert humphrey for instance was wrong, what critics like robert bork for instance said turned out to be true,
Nixon took a fusionist view of politics, reagan was perhaps more orthodox with regards to economic matters,
Hunter Biden's tax payer funded Hooker: "The formerly anti Trump hack press are now in the tank promoting Trump.
As planned."
This is what is termed a "complete break from reality".
Just because he's dead, doesn't mean he deserves any respect. Anything is Fair Game when you own the stadium.
Wow, the NY Times is full of hate. Looks out window ... It's a nice day, there are better things to do than read the NY Times.
"the people want separation of the races" quote was actually made by Pat Brown, if you read Barkan's poorly-crafted sentence carefully.
Wilbur wrote:
"I believe Reagan did not defeat Jerry Brown, but rather his pappy, Edmund "Pat" Brown."
Yeah, people have almost no cultural literacy.
I remember Nixon. He surrounded himself with a few competent statesmen and a bunch of nincompoops, and then brought himself down listening to the nincompoops. So yes, much like Trump. Nixon was neither a far-sighted statesman nor a conservative with principles. He was a pro-Nixon advocate for more Nixon, and did things like open up to China for a short term gain instead of helping their economy to implode and bring down the CCP, as Reagan (+ Thatcher + John Paul II) did to the Soviet economy and the Soviet communists.
So now we have a kleptocratic, totalitarian communist party with a strong economy in China. And Antifa in the US pretending that being anti-anti-communist is admirable. Thanks, Nixon.
I see this limb in which 1968 is not a guide, and I will go out on it. If for no other reason than the author's understanding of people and events in 1968 that don't seem to match with actual historical records from 1968.
"Someone show proof Reagan said this"; the only thing I could find is Reagan's argument for "state's rights", which regressives on the left demand everyone accept as a dog whistle for "segregation and slavery". Makes you wonder that as abortion is now a state's rights issue; is pro-abortion about genocide of certain races?
I don't recall that he dismissed Johnson's 'landmark civil rights agenda' other than to speak in terms of huge government expansion (which it certainly was and continues to be).
The left is always trying to convince people that conservatives are racist. My youngest daughter had a study guide for the final exam in her "US History Since 1877" class. That study guide stated that "The Silent Majority" was made up of white people who rejected the 1964 Civil Rights Act. No mention of Nixon or Vietnam. It's a constant theme on the left.
who else liked to re-write history?
The Nazis and the Soviets.
LBJ did apply civil rights to USSC in the person of Justice Marshall... Thurgood!!!
This seems like a lot of gaslighting, which sadly even if the author knows it's not true will be convincing to those who read it. California racism tended to be always driven by Democrats, but that is flushed down in the adept political retelling of the story. Republicans are tarred with racism mostly because they oppose the government fixes, with the assumption being that the goals and methods are inextricably linked for many voters. Because that's how adept politicians frame the discussions.
But my bigger question, honestly, is that as Trump came to his own power and success in the 80s, what were his views on Reagan? I didn't start high school until '89, so honestly don't know.
now reagan specially as governor in the peoples park standoff was not as genial as one remembers, nixon though shared interests not ideology was the solution, he did challenge the deep atate's presumptions about certain aspects, and many of the left held grudges for unmasking alger hiss,
Not Jerry Brown. Pat Brown. The two-term incumbent who did great things for the state.
Democrats held the floor for several months filibustering the Civil rights act.
It was republicans, with some demmies, who got it passed,
John LGKTQ Henry
Nixon did almost nothing to create the China we have today. That was the work of his successors, in particular Clinton and the Bushes (not to mention the Chinese themselves).
As for the Soviet economy, it's Russia, not China, waging large-scale war right now. But maybe that's Tricky Dick's fault too.
Hmmm.
Back in 1968 the USA was overwhelmingly WASPish and the main race conversation was about White vs. Black. The USA was also overwhelmingly populated by sincere and often active Christians, with Kennedy the first Catholic elected president less than 10 years prior. The USA also had just a handful of controlling media organizations, including CBS, NBC, (sort of ABC), WaPo, NYT, and other now-dead newspapers.
Race discussions were framed in the (then positive) Triumphs of Western Civilization and Science. For 10 years after LBJ's Great Society, egghead academics truly believed they could use science to achieve equal racial outcomes. Optimism prevailed -- including among anti-slavery, anti-tobacco, anti-alcohol Republicans.
Then by the Carter years, the Great Society data and race-by-performance data came in. The eggheads moaned about a "lost generation." Carter attempted Forced Equity Policy V1.0 with quotas and set-asides. These all failed, and then were squashed by Reagan and court rulings.
In 2024 WASPs do not dominate, race relations are multi-polar, and mixed races/ethnicities are key. There are many White-Asian, White-Hispanic, White-Black, and Black-Hispanic offspring. We now have Asian Indians, MENA, African immigrants, Eastern European immigrants, and more. There are many 2nd or 3rd generation multi-racial people with complex identities, no firm racial identity, or who shift between races per the social context.
Today's left is re-fighting the 1965-1980 LBJ to Carter period and once again trying quotas and forced outcomes. Army generals always fight the last war. Then they die. Biden and Trump and all politicians over age 70 are doomed to fight the old (now mostly pointless) battles.
The year 2024 won't be remotely similar to 1968.
Limited blogger said...
Now do Biden and RFK Jr.
5/30/23, 9:18 AM
Okay!
"Biden is like Dick Nixon and RFKJr is like Pat Paulsen." (1968)
Or, "Biden is like George H.W. Bush and RFKJr is like Pat Paulsen." (1992)
Or, "Biden is like Bill Clinton and RFKJr is like Pat Paulsen." (1996)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pat_Paulsen
"open disdain for Johnson’s landmark civil rights agenda"
Evidence?
In retrospect, perhaps conservatives should have been more disdainful: the "agenda" boosted the endless expansion of government power and the Racialization of Everything, thus completely undermining any semblance of constitutional order. Nixon actively helped that transformation along.
To my fellow deplorables I recommend The Age of Entitlement by Christopher Caldwell.
The emergence of Bobby Jr. has me thinking about the earlier generation of Kennedys. Was Bobby Sr. something like Nixon with charm? A history of being tough on both Communism (at home and abroad) and law and order; a determination to reach out to college students (boomers) who were likely to be "soft" on these issues. A concern with civil rights and poverty. Nixon as Pres combined a compromise but effective plan to desegrate schools with signing the Civil Rights Act of 1970, and greatly ramped up spending on food stamps and Social Security, among other programs. Maybe Bobby Sr. and Nixon were both less ideological than Reagan; there may be some truth in saying more ideological people, or people wedded to their slogans, have more trouble reaching worthwhile compromises.
Sorry about the Pat/Jerry mixup. Fixed.
Only Trump is like Trump there is no other past or present or future president like him.
Pat Brown was a GOOD governor who built dams and canals and supported the bracero program and many other things his son and other horrible progressives rejected thus turning my beloved Golden State into Cook County with oceanfront property.
The only analogy to Trump, is that Nixon probably lost the 1960 election because of Johnson tampering with Texas, and Joe Kennedy paying his mafia cronies to deliver Illinois for JFK through Chicago voter fraud.
The reason Trump holds a large lead in the GOP Primary polling is because his his supporters know that 2020 Election was fraudulent. WI, PA, GA, MI, and NV. Plain and simple. They also know J6 was an FBI set up.
Current DeSantis supporters know all of this too, but somehow believe Democrats and the Deep State won't cheat again. Wishful thinking at best. Most likely delusional.
I think many believe the only way to right the ship is to re-elect Trump. He won in 2020, and should be in his second term today.
If the 2024 election is clean, Trump can win. If Democrats are allowed to change and break election laws like the did in 2020, it doesn't matter who the GOP nominee is. DeSantis can't beat the fraud either.
Many don't like the current Biden regime, but just want to turn a blind eye to the 2020 fraud and "move on". Reality is, we won't be "moving on". We are now more than likely stuck in fraudulent Presidential Election system.
If the GOP can fire up and absentee ballot harvesting system and infiltrate the absentee ballot counting where nothing is verified anymore (see Maricopa 2022), then there is a chance. But then, you just have two entities corrupting elections.
For those that enjoyed the 2020 fraud, continue to enjoy. For those that wanted to "move on"...I don't know if you're enjoying this, but it is what you wished for.
pat brown ended up shilling for the indonesian crude, that funded arianna huffington's early projects from her divorce settlement,
Nixon a conservative? That's a fanny slapper! The old boy was as liberal as they come. There WERE liberal Republicans in those days. Let's review - end segregation, wage and price control, Keynesian economics, creates OSHA, creates EPA, Emergency Employment Act, devalues dollar, visits Russia, visits China. Yep, right there with Milton Friedman and Ludwig Von Mises.
Blogger Hunter Biden's tax payer funded Hooker said...
The formerly anti Trump hack press are now in the tank promoting Trump.
During the 2020 race, Morning Joe had Trump on anytime they could get him. They weren't promoting him, but at the time loved the ratings. And with the Hillary is going to win 99% guarantee, that real 2016 election blindsided them all.
Ron DeSantis Presidency would be awesome. So would a Trump Presidency. But if you deny the 2020 targeted voter fraud, neither stands a chance.
But, I will give some credit to the idea that the liberals believe Trump will drive angry white suburban women to the polls to "vote" for Biden.
"DeSantis, like Reagan, is running for President from his recently ascended-to position as Governor of a big state "
Not just any big state. Florida. A must have electoral vote state if ever there was one.
Nixon and Reagan didn't have to face the current angry white woman factor. Both won massive landslide victories for second terms, and to do that women had to vote for them. Suburban women. It's no longer your mother's suburbs.
Now, the Affluent White Female Liberal (AWFLs) is a modern electoral voting block. They're not moving an inch.
What makes anyone think they will come out for DeSantis? The love abortion. Believe the transgender push is good for kids. For some reason it makes them feel "nice". They completely bought in to the lockdowns and mRNA shots....and they can afford the inflation. And they can afford to live in communities where they are insulated from the inner city violence they help massage.
There's nothing sunny about Trump anymore. All he does is grievance monger, play golf and attack DeSantis. Sad!
"Lefties always think Conservatives ulterior motives are to keep Blacks in slavery"
Tangential, but relevant.
The Star Tribune recently had a piece about how the neighborhoods in Minneapolis that were once redlined are now the ones with all of the poor people and crime and overwhelmingly non-white.
On the on hand, one could conclude that the white folks redlining back in the day we're awfully damn prescient.
But on the other hand, those neighborhoods just happen to be where a disproportionate number of the section-8 housing, homeless shelters, and the halfway houses for drug abusers and criminals on parole (especially those on the Sex Offender Registry) are located. Why? Because that's right where the government put them.
Needless to say, the Star Tribune never considered either of those theories, because both are contrary to the message they were try to convey with the story -- that all Republicans are racists and it's all their fault.
"Drago said...
Hunter Biden's tax payer funded Hooker: "The formerly anti Trump hack press are now in the tank promoting Trump.
As planned."
This is what is termed a "complete break from reality"."
You Only Build Me Up To Tear Me Down
Song by Smokey Robinson
You're like a baby, I'm like a set of blocks you got for a toy
First you build me up and that gives you joy
Then you change your mind and you start to destroy me
Piece by piece I'm torn apart
And all my dreams of being yours are crumbed to the ground
Oh you only build me up baby, baby
You only build me up baby, baby
You only build me up to tear me down, down, down (ooh)
Oh on Monday maybe you might make me feel like I am a king (you build me up)
Tell me you're a puppet (you build me up) and I've got the string (you build me up)
Oh but then on Tuesday (you build me up) it's a different thing
(Ooh) just as I begin to get the feel of the throne and (ooh) start to cherish the crown
I found out you only build me up baby, baby
(Only build me up) baby, baby, baby, baby
You only build me up to tear me down, down, down (ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh)
Yeah, yeah (ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh)
(Ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh)
Ooh you give me hope, for a while you had me walkin' 'round on a cloud
Braggin' about you and feelin' real proud
Then without a warnin' in front of a crowd
You bring me back to Earth with some unkind deed soon as I am heaven bound
Oh you only build me up, only build me up
You only build me up, only build me up
Baby, baby (only build me up)
Baby, baby, baby (baby baby), you only build me up to tear me down, down, down
(Ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh) yeah, yeah
(Only build me up baby, baby) baby, baby
(Only build me up baby, baby) ooh yeah, baby
You only build me up to tear me down, down, down
(Ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh) yeah, ooh wee baby
(Only build me up baby, baby) baby, baby, baby
(Only build me up baby, baby) yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah baby
And wouldn't it be easy to say Trump is like Reagan?
Reagan's demeanor was sunny and sweet ("It's morning in America"); Trump's demeanor is dark and sour ("American carnage," "We wuz robbed").
You want to look for historical parallels? I think that you can see some between Gaius Marius and Trump. Marius was another outsider to the power structure, who was undermined at every turn and denigrated by the powerful. When Marius came out on top after all the BS, his last term as Consul was a nightmare of revenge-taking, proscriptions, and bloodshed. Which led to Sulla, the Social Wars, and on and on...
I don't think that Trump's term as president after winning in 2024 is going to be the wunnerful, wunnerful thing everyone thinks it would be. I think, instead, that it's actually going to be disastrous for him personally, and the rest of us collectively. He's going to be out for revenge, and all the stops will be out. Plus that, he's really got no idea how all his enemies connect or how they work together against him. It'll be another four years of recriminations, criminal charges, and utter BS.
Does he deserve it? Nope; he did a good job for his term, should have won the second one handily, but his skills at political infighting aren't anywhere near good enough. He wins in 2024, it'll be a damn nightmare for the country.
Pat Brown was your typical self-righteous, pompous, corrupt Liberal Politician. He sneered at Reagan and ran stupid commercials saying stuff like: "Y'know who killed lincoln? An actor. Ho,ho,ho", and when he lost called Reagan a racist (using the language of the day).
People forget Carter did the same thing. To translate it: "I'm a noble man who lost because I was too good to pander to racist yahoos - unlike my opponent." Blech!
BTW, Pat Brown refused to commute Carl Chessman's death sentence. Brown was soft on crime, and privately against the death penality, but thought it would be popular. IRC, it was last time someone was executed without committing murder.
There's nothing sunny about Trump anymore.
Really? Where have you seen him lately?
Reporter Barkan was born later in the year that Reagan left the White House. NYT paywall prevents me from studying his claims more closely, but Barkan, 33, must have watched a lot of newsreel footage to locate the "swagger" he ascribes to Reagan, who had perfected a Gary Cooper aw-shucks manner in his self-presentation.
Reporter and budding politician, I emend myself.
Nixon a conservative? That's a fanny slapper! The old boy was as liberal as they come.
Smithsonian Magazine: "President Richard Nixon, whose Executive Order 11478, passed on August 8, 1969, called for unilateral affirmative action in all government employment."
here's something that's NOT Nixon like..
https://www.wsj.com/articles/ukraine-and-allies-plan-peace-summit-without-russia-72341551?mod=hp_lead_pos1
Ukraine and Allies Plan Peace Summit Without Russia
That's RIGHT! you GOT It! War in the Ukraine is going to be ended.. WITHOUT RUSSIAN HELP
The US is Just going to 'declare a victory', and walk away
Every time you think dems CAN'T get Any dumber.. They prove you Wrong
Speaking of 1968, Biden can bring back the draft and send troops to Ukraine to fight the Russians. That should do the trick. As Obama said, never underestimate Joe's ability to fuck things up! BLM and Antifa can do the nation a great favor and riot, loot and burn down the areas where the white, affluent liberal woman live.
DeSantis should go negative (what’s wrong with the country) during the primaries. He then should go positive (what’s sunshine about Florida and America) during the general. I hope he kicks both Trump’s and President Doofus’s ass.
I voted for Trump. The chump couldn’t even show up for Doofus’s inauguration. That’s minimum in being president. He’s definitely been screwed by many of our previously respected institutions. He has my sympathy. Move on President Trump.
""Let's make America great again" was famously used in Ronald Reagan's 1980 presidential campaign. At the time the United States was suffering from a worsening economy at home marked by stagflation."
Blogger Mountain Maven said...
There's nothing sunny about Trump anymore. All he does is grievance monger
Well we know for sure it isn't Sunny in voter fraud Philadelphia. The fake attacks on him (Russian collusion, drink bleach, fine people hoax) and up to the point of lawfare and prosecution are not just attacks on Trump. And they are attacks on the 74 million people to cast legitimate votes in 2016 and 2020 and supported him.
DeSantis supporters now feel insulated from all that? That's make believe. It's time for a real Festivus election. The airing of the grievances. There are plenty of them.
I don't always agree with takirks, but his @1236 is spot on. The country won't survive a second Trump term for exactly the reasons he describes.
I'm still betting that both Trump and Biden will be rendered unavailable well before the '24 elections. I hope so, anyway.
What Gusty Winds said @ 5/30/23, 11:27 AM
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