"'I’ve never seen them go after a man who was sick in the Senate in that way,' Ms. Pelosi said last month. It’s true that the Senate, which has always been entirely or mostly male, has experienced long absences by some of its male members. In the 1940s, Senator Carter Glass of Virginia was absent for four years because of heart trouble. Senator Karl Mundt of South Dakota had a stroke in 1969 and never really came back in the following three years. In 2001, when he was 98, Senator Strom Thurmond of South Carolina was wheeled to the Senate floor to cast votes, despite widespread concern about his mental fitness. In all of those cases, as with Ms. Feinstein, the senators ignored concerns about their capacity and pleas from their colleagues as long as they could. This Senate tradition should have been discarded long ago. Senate seats are not lifetime sinecures...."
But isn't Pelosi right? Something has been done badly by men for a long, long time, and suddenly it just has to stop... because a woman is doing it? Pick a different occasion for standing on lucid, sensible policy! Dianne Feinstein is no more in the way than Glass and Mundt and Thurmond. They received an old-fashioned sentimental Senatorial respect. Perhaps that respect is ridiculous. Perhaps it's just inconvenient. But use this newfound principle first against a few men or it's evidence of sexism. Pelosi's right.
Posts
86 comments:
The Senate was more one-sided then. Who cared if there was one less Dem vote? Also, the Dems would be doing this to an incapacitated male member, too, in these circumstances. They couldn't wait to kick Al Franken out.
I don't see what all the fuss is about. If Fetterman is fit to stay than Feinstein is perfectly fit to keep on keepin' on, maybe more fit.
Gollum is female.
As most of the world including not a few Dems are saying Biden can't function anymore.
Swing and a miss. Times change.
Did Thurmond get "respect"? Who gave that "respect"? Some fellow senators? I vaguely recall the whole situation treated with ridicule and disbelief on the outside.
Right. Because we aren't saying the same thing about Joe Biden. It's because she is old and decrepit. Not because she is a woman.
True equality knows no gender.
What’s good for the goose… or gander…
Once ppl admit that equality 🟰 inherent/intrinsic value of being, that is.
Good Lord! Of course it’s sexist. Has to be. No one should criticize a woman in a public service job for not doing the job! No one ever criticizes a man in public service who can’t do the job. No one, I mean no one, ever criticized Reagan or Biden or Fetterman or McCain (who refused to retire even when he was terminal because he couldn’t let go of the “adulation” and his concern for his fucking “legacy”).
Women and minorities hardest hit.
Wait, is this the same as “no one ever criticized the white Supreme Court justices for purported gifts”? No? Didn’t think so…
And BTW, how do we know Feinstein is a woman? OMG, Pelosi is a transphobe!
And yet I just read an article saying Feinstein should immediately resign and Newsome should temporarily replace her with a respected statesman who isn't running for the seat: Pelosi. Doesn't Senator Pelosi sound wonderful, the author gushed.
Anything that leads to term limits is good. If it takes a woman to get the job done, then so be it.
Ruth Bader Ginsburg was criticized for the same and posthumously for Ruth's regrets that may have motivated her slow egress.
That said, under Critical Diversity Theory (CDT), Feinstein can be transparently replaced by another woman, ideally from a different color bloc, and, with social progress, it would be sufficient for a male who identifies with. or emulates the, femimasculine gender.
Let’s have her and Fetterman play each other in a winner-stays loser-goes game of hangperson. Problem solved. How about a sense-of-the-Senate vote on how long an absence should be tolerated? Has the world’s greatest deliberative body not considered having a vote on it?
Wouldn't it be ironic if Feinstein was impeached with Pelosi's precedents conceived and birthed to relieve the Trump burden.
"'I’ve never seen them go after a man who was sick in the Senate in that way,' Ms. Pelosi said last month."
What is a "man"?
What is a "woman"?
Let's consider if the criticism of Feinstein has been because of her gender. Maybe, given todays superheated political climate, a similarly-situated male Senator would also be subjected to the same complaints.
I just don't see that sexism is necessarily the reason for this situation. It may be. but I'd like a little more evidence than whataboutism.
Pelosi's right? It's hard to see how you could come to that conclusion given this:
This Senate tradition should have been discarded long ago.
(1) It's styled as a quote from Pelosi, so what were left with is, "this practice should be ended, but not when it is inconvenient to me."
(2) Yeah, well, all her examples are from long ago, aren't they?
(3) I refute you thus: John Fetterman.
Either way, Pelosi is not only not right, she is irresponsible and destructive
It’s inconvenient because of the closely divided senate, not because Feinstein is a woman. Context matters. There is no sexism here.
The interesting question (to me) is whether an old doddering male Democratic Senator (who can't make the votes) would be treated the same way, pushed to resign. I feel pretty sure he would be. With such a slender majority, every vote counts, and there's a very good chance the Democrats will lose their majority after the next election. They need Feinstein (or the doddering male) no longer blocking things while they still can pass their bills and their judges. This is the post-Trump era, when old traditions are being tossed out when they get in the way.
Second interesting (to me) question: did the absence of Glass or Mundt make any difference in their party's ability to pass legislation, etc? In other words, did it matter? To the Democratic Party (and its advisors at the NYT), Feinstein's absence matters--as would the doddering old male's.
Chauffeur was a Chicken Spy.
And that she’s on the closely divided Judiciary Committee, of course.
>Ann Althouse said...
But isn't Pelosi right? Something has been done badly by men for a long, long time, and suddenly it just has to stop... because a woman is doing it? Pick a different occasion for standing on lucid, sensible policy! Dianne Feinstein is no more in the way than Glass and Mundt and Thurmond. They received an old-fashioned sentimental Senatorial respect.<
And nothing different is happening with the woman, Feinstein, from what happened to the men. The men were all implored to retire and, as the NYT explains in the segment that you quoted, "the senators ignored concerns about their capacity and pleas from their colleagues as long as they could."
That is precisely what Feinstein is successfully doing now. Just like the men did. Woman, schmoman.
Fetterman has been hammered pretty good.
Pelosi gives zero fucks about sexism.
She only cares about power and will say anything to get/retain it...
It would be good to know to whom Pelosi was responding when she made that remark, because pundits on the right have been making that push, too, not just from the left. It has become more relevant in the last couple of weeks from the left because Feinstein's absence has left the Judiciary Committee deadlocked, and the Republicans have refused to allow court nominations to move forward with tied committee votes. Will Pelosi criticize this NYTimes editorial? I doubt it.
Call me old fashioned, but the the different chambers should not be commenting on each other. Pelosi and McCarthy should have zero opinion on how the Senate runs its affairs and vice versa.
Fetterman. The only difference is, the Left is saying that Feinstein should resign, and the Right is saying Fetterman should resign.
Yes, Pelosi is right, there is a terrible double standard here. Let’s see what happens if and when a male congress person has an illness that requires an extended sick leave.
What if the desire to valorize a woman, Feinstein, makes keeping her on a worse proposition. Thurmond can be weak and foolish but then people can ignore him, or try to exploit him for their own gain if they can manipulate him
But it would seem worse to do that to an addled woman, so Feinstein gets to behave in a more addled way and that leads to worse political outcomes.
So if men do something boneheaded and stupid, then women are free to do the same boneheaded stupid things without anyone being allowed to comment on how boneheaded and stupid it is.
The Emperor's New Clothes, in other words.
Noted.
Lazily scanning the Althouse post without benefit of coffee I had thought that Ms. Pelosi was the one being pressured to retire given shared gender and age.
I feel irritated though at the kneejerk casting of criticism or defense against criticism of any kind as "sexist"
It's not like Pelosi was being accused of "sentimentality" or some other failing usually associated with femininity.
Where is the sexism? Is her illness a "female illness"? Did she catch a cold on a chilly California beach while wearing a skimpy dress?
Are we still talking about Tucker Carlson and office decoration of bikinied public servants?
I agree with the NYT. Makes no difference if the Senator is a man, woman or transgender. If they can't do the job, resign. Too important to have mentally incompetent people casting votes.
Do the right thing!
Now who's being naive?
What goes with a healthy majority doesn't go with a sickly majority.
The tradition of addle-brained senators can be revived when times are not so parlous.
Heh. Works for me.
See, this is why the Democrats prefer Negroes to feminists. Negroes don't have all these quibbles and "hey, wait a minute ..." moments. The Negro is in it for the straight-up grift, and as long as he gets his cut, he doesn't care about anything else. The Democrats know they would be lost without college-educated, dim-bulb white women. There is no other sizeable demographic who can be counted on to ignore their own interests and let the Democrat coalition of thieves and losers walk all over them in the interest of "fairness". But the whining! Sirens sweetly singing it ain't!
Did the NYT mention Senator Fetterman? Or is he 1) male and 2) not impeding the Democrat agenda?
If it's not 'sexist', it's 'ageist'! wait, no it's 'ableist'! Wait, no, it's against our cynical interests for retaining power, so therefore it's 'anything but that'!
Just because Pelosi says she's 'never seen it before' doesn't mean it hasn't happened. It doesn't even mean she isn't lying, which she almost certainly, almost automatically, is.
Its different this time because it is blocking Biden's appointment of new ju(D)ges, not because she is a woman.
Why do these pre-Boomers cling so desperately to power? They, those born during the latter part of the Great Depression and during the war, those who were in their mid-twenties/early thirties in the 1960s, i.e., the real Woodstockers, seem to fear that if they let others have influence all their bad ideas imposed on the country will collapse.
Imagine what might happen when those whose ideological bent was formed in the 1960s no longer can keep progress from happening.
They could always even things out sex-wise by insisting that Senator Fetterman resign, too.
Problem being that once you start in on cleaning out the human vegetables in the Senate, it's gotta be hard to know where to stop.
The politics have changed. Dems are short a vote in the Senate, delaying judicial appointments.
Normally, the Republicans just rolled over and gave in to the Dems desires...for some reason McConnoll has not rolled over this time.
Californians -- not the NYTimes -- elected Dianne Feinstein. I see no reason to care about what the NYTimes thinks about how her non-presence interferes with Democratic Party goals, which is what this is really all about.
Or is possible that, in this case, the voting margins are razor thin, and the old bat’s vote is actually important in the tallies? One tires of the incessant bleating of the victims.
- Krumhorn
Isn’t that quaint? Althouse thinks she’s even allowed to accuse Democrats of sexism.
In a bid to quell the concerns of feminists and other Nice Women, how about the following solution? Pressure both Feinstein and Fetterman to resign.
At least in the case of Strom Thurmond, I don't think she's right. I seem to remember that being deplored if not mocked. Of course, I could be wrong but I think she is ignoring the obviously different political circumstances of these cases. None of the others were missing votes when their party had a mere one vote majority in the senate and so didn't represent the same level of danger to the ruling party's plans (see what is going on in the judicial committee).
Pelosi is wrong. Thurmond was tolerated because he could still show up to vote, but Glass and Mundt who could not show up were both pressured to resign. Mundt was stopped of his committee assignments. One could point out that in both cases it was the wife who prevented them resigning. (And there was an issue with Mundt whether he was capable of resigning given his mental condition.) Would that be sexist? Feinstein was also tolerated so long as she showed up to vote and accepted not being president pro tem and committee chair.
Ann Althouse said...Something has been done badly by men for a long, long time, and suddenly it just has to stop... because a woman is doing it?
The "because" in this sentence is begging the question.
Norms? What are those? The world started when Trump was elected.
The only rule is whatever is best for Democrats, and right now Feinstein is inconvenient. All we are experiencing here is a rare moment when the Democrats do not provide a united front as their default fall back positions do not align. They will eventually all get the memo and say the same things.
If Feinstein was a Republican, all the Democrats would be saying this was sexist. Enjoy the rare moment of a Pelosi principled moment. It won't last. She's probably already lost interest due to research into insider trading opportunities.
It hasn't been done before because democrats used to be human beings, they no longer are.
Not asking an 89 year old Senator with clear cognitive decline to resign only because she is female is the exact definition of sexism.
NOT asking an 89 year old Senator with clear cognitive decline to resign ONLY because she is female is the exact definition of sexism.
Now do Fettermnn. He is absent even when his body is sitting there. The most loyal Democrats are those with mental problems.
I don't think any of the other cases involved a senator who was part of a one-vote majority.
In the 1940s, Senator Carter Glass of Virginia was absent for four years because of heart trouble. Senator Karl Mundt of South Dakota had a stroke in 1969 and never really came back in the following three years.
i realize, that i am asking a Factual Question.. And i realize, that is FROWNED upon.. BUT;
What was the Senate makeup, during these cases? DID their votes MATTER? was there a majority without?
Looks like there were about 59 dem senators while Sen Glass sat out (he was pres pro tem, btw)
Looks like there were about 58 dem senators while Sen Mundt sat out
Could someone Please explain, how these are AT ALL Relevant?
If their constituents feel they are best represented by someone who is incompetent, who are we to disagree?
No. Pelosi isn't right. Pressure to resign was put on Glass, Mundt, and Thurmond, so putting pressure on Feinstein isn't sexist. It would be sexist to not put on the same pressure.
In the Wikipedia list of senators who have resigned, several are due to health reasons. I have not examined the list, but there's a good chance all of the resignations for illness have been done by men. This is her chance to be a historic first!
Sexist? How can anyone make that claim given that Ms. Feinstein owes entire career to a man -- Daniel James White?
I'm no fan of politicians staying in office well into their dotage, but I think the issue with Feinstein is much less about gender than it is about power.
When Glass and Mundt were incapacitated for lengthy periods, the Democrats had strong majorities in both houses of Congress. Their absences had no real impact on legislation.
In contrast, Strom Thurmond may have been cognitively suspect when he was wheeled in to cast votes, but the Senate was at 50/50 Dem/GOP at the time.
If the Democrats had a solid Senate majority, Feinstein's competence would not be a significant issue.
These charges of sexism should be put to rest, by getting Biden to resign. Then we can move forward to remove the other, male and female, but mostly male, dotards in high office.
the New York Times is the one calling for her to resign!
they're the ones putting pressure on her
Republicans are happy that she is out and no more crazy judges can be confirmed
vacay in the Senate while Biden continues to accomplish nothing
resign!
resign!
resign!
that ain't coming from the right
just like all the pressure that was put on Ginsburg to quit while Obama was in office
that didn't come from that right, either
and it backfired
just like this will probably backfire
tough Jewish ladies don't quit, no matter how many Democrats howl at them
who do you think she is
Al Franken?!
and how do you know she's a woman, anyway?
prove it!
feminist up in Wisconsin
talking about "man"
and "woman"
boy, are you out of the loop!
It isn't about sexism. It is about power. Without Feinstein, they cannot get a majority vote on her committee. The Dems need the vote. The comparison to Thurmond isn't valid, since they wheeled him in to vote. As for Glass and Mundt, they might not have been the swing vote in committees.
Was the majority party's ability to pass legislation or confirm appointments diminished by these extended absences?
Ha! Pelosi complains about sex discrimination, but her real concern is making sure that one of her cronies gets to fill the Senate seat in the 2024 election. If Feinstein resigns now, Newsom will appoint her successor and it apparently won't be whoever Pelosi wants.
Traditions mean nothing nowadays. Sen. Feinstein is simply in the way (think speed bump) of the Progressive Left (aka Democrats) achieving their plan to de-democratize the country. Soon, the same thing will happen to Sen. Fetterman (unless his chief of staff continues to get away with casting the Senator's votes.) And the oldsters among the Republicans (those among the Uniparty bunch) will soon be bum-rushed out the door as well. The replacements for all of these sticks-in-the-mud will be variants of the current "The Squad" useful idiots. There is no sexism in Beltway politics. You are either useful to the oligarchy or you are not. True equality! God help us all.
Personally, I am glad she is absent, preventing the appointment of liberal judges. However, it is her own party raising the ruckus, and not exclusively men. While I can't vouch for the degree, I remember it being an issue that Thurmond was not available. The absence of the other two was not significant in that at the times in question one party had such a majority their one vote was not meaningful. So maybe it isn't just a male/female issue.
Democrats will do anything to forward their agenda. They have no problem tossing Feinstein under the wheels. They will jettison Biden if necessary.
If the NYT thinks it is time for Feinstein to go due to her lack of mental fitness, what's their position on Biden? Sexism and double standards!
"Putting any kind of public pressure on Ms. Feinstein has been criticized by the former House speaker Nancy Pelosi and others as sexist."
"'I’ve never seen them go after a man who was sick in the Senate in that way,' Ms. Pelosi said last month. It’s true that the Senate, which has always been entirely or mostly male, has experienced long absences by some of its male members.
I love the way they don't' talk about Fetterman right now.
But of course, they ARE sexist pigs.
Both DiFi and Festerman would be replaced by Democrat Governor's with New Democrat Senators. But for the NYT, DiFi must go, but Festerman (I mean Fetterman) must stay.
Sexism, thy name is "leftist"
No. Pelosi isn't right. Pressure to resign was put on Glass, Mundt, and Thurmond, so putting pressure on Feinstein isn't sexist. It would be sexist to not put on the same pressure.
None of them DID resign.
So it's "ok" to "put on the pressure", but only if you don't expect it to have any effect.
The outcome with those men, and with Fetterman right now, is that they stayed in the Senate.
The outcome should be the same with DiFi, and only a sexist pig would demand otherwise.
:-)
Being “right” is not normally associated with Pelosi. And given her actions over the last three decades, I see absolutely NO reason to give her the benefit of the doubt.
The left is full of bigots
"use this newfound principle first against a few men or it's evidence of sexism. "
Fight he patrriarchy!
National Journal reporter Savannah Behrmann shared a similar interaction with Feinstein after the retirement statement was published.
"Well, I haven't made that decision. I haven't released anything," Behrmann quoted her as saying.
One of Feinstein's staffers is then heard telling the senator, "We put out the statement."
Feinstein replied, "You put out the statement? I should have known they put it out."
<
Two California Democrats, Representatives Katie Porter and Adam Schiff, have already announced they will run for Feinstein's Senate seat. Both were criticized for announcing their bids before Feinstein made her decision public.
--
Shifty Schiff!!
The Eagles are better than..the Eaaaaglesss!!!
If it's good enough for the athletes, Feinstein should be the better man and resign to her fate.
Sexism or genderism? Hypocrisy or diversity? A burden is a burden from egg to adult. At least give ChatNYT credit for consistency.
There has never been a moment when furtherance of the NYT's political agenda has not been so urgent as to transcend morality, consistency, and logic.
As a number of folks have noted this question has a one word answer : Fetterman.
Despite his obvious cognitive decline he appears to be nowhere near his expiry date so his ability to win reelection needs to be protected. Feinstein could expire any day and the possibly that the seat could turn GOP is negligible.
Yes, Pelosi is right, there is a terrible double standard here. Let’s see what happens if and when a male congress person has an illness that requires an extended sick leave.
Good Lord! I agree with the Resident Dullard and weird anti-Trump conspiracy theorist for the first time.
When will Bernie (I mean Biden) step down?
Is she a woman or cisgender? Is she a human or adult of excess age? She's worried about Pelosi's Precedent (PP), and social progress, NOW that Feinstein has been deemed nonviable, a forward-looking burden.
If the roles were reversed, and it was a different Democrat who was absent for health reasons but wished to remain in the Senate, and that absence was a noticeable impediment to the Democrats being able to get things passed in the Senate, I think it more likely than not, that Feinstein would support that member being able to stay in the Senate. I think more than most Democrats, Feinstein does value the process, and procedural fairness.
I'm confused. Is the NYT editorial board sexist? Really? Is that what you think is going on here?
I'm pretty certain they are are just absolute partisan hacks who want to substitute Newsome's pick for Feinstein while keeping Fetterman right where he is, because that is what the Democrat Party wants.
Nancy is just worried that she's next.
DiFi is recovering from shingles, an experience I have had myself and would wish on no one, even someone as politically despicable as DiFi. She'll be back, and just as mentally acute and physically fit as when she had to stop coming in to work. As we say down South, " God bless her heart!"
"So if men do something boneheaded and stupid, then women are free to do the same boneheaded stupid things without anyone being allowed to comment on how boneheaded and stupid it is.
The Emperor's New Clothes, in other words."
Or "Reparations", in other other words.
Times change. So does visibility. So does the power of individual states. But it's more a headcount at this point, with such slim margins.
The DNC is in control here, and they are indeed a hypocritically sexist organization, and they are also aware that Feinstein is irrelevant to or despised by ignorant younger voters, whom they need more. Do you think AOC wants Feinstein there? No.
The great disgrace lies in the White House, where it was entirely understood by the DNC that Biden was incompetent prior to his election.
Complaints should be directed to the DNC.
It’s all about appointing leftist judges. Without her vote on the Judiciary Committee the Dems can’t send judicial nominations to the floor, and the Republicans won’t let her be replaced. So they need her to resign. This is likely much different than in the other cases you cite.
I am glad he clear sexism of the NY Times has been exposed by this.
I assume we won't be seeing any further articles from them, as they can no longer be treated as a worthwhile source.
Post a Comment