Says Jena Friedman in "Jena Friedman Gives Male Comedians the Female Media Treatment/'Do you think men can be sexy AND funny?'" (LitHub)(via Metafilter).
The questions (go to the link to see how the male comedians handled them):
What’s it like to be a man in comedy?... When did you decide to become a male comedian?... Was it hard to be a male comedian back when you were starting out?... Do you think it has changed for men since you got into the business?... Do you think men can be attractive and funny?... Do you think men can be sexy and funny?... Do you think it’s more difficult for male comics who are not attractive?... Is it harder to date since you’ve started doing stand-up?... Do you write your own material?... Is all your material about being a dad?
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52 comments:
100% real? Name names, or it didn't happen.
So when did they ask someone who's funny?
Seriously. These guys need a comedy writer. Maybe a whole staff.
Haha just so. I can recall when it was thought black comics couldn't rally be funny because you know, minstrelsy or something.
And women, you know, don't have that...well I'm sure rhardin or someone like that can explain.
Haha just so. I can recall when it was thought black comics couldn't rally be funny because you know, minstrelsy or something.
And women, you know, don't have that...well I'm sure rhardin or someone like that can explain.
“I and other female comedians”
If you identify as a ‘Female Comedian”, it should follow that you get questions about your identity, no?
Maybe you should identify as funny?
"Is it harder to date since you’ve started doing stand-up?"
Harder!? Lady that's how I met my wife. Comedy is social viagra. If it doesn't make it harder dating you're not doing it right!
Males start being comedians when they pee. That's hard to women to emulate.
Dave: DaveGPT, respond to a blog post by Ann Althouse in the style of an Ann Althouse blog post.
DaveGPT: Certainly, I would be happy to respond to a blog posted by Ann Althouse, in the style of the author. Here is a response:
"[T]his emerging culture of gender-blindness has created another way to allow women’s issues to be swept under the rug."
"Gender blindness is a term used to describe treating all genders the same regardless of their biological or historical differences. Although this may on the surface seem to be a great step forward in the journey to equality, this blanket treatment of all people as the exact same ends up doing more harm than good."
--What is Gender Blindness and Why is it a Problem for Women?
https://medium.com/@sydney.j.randolph/what-is-gender-blindness-and-why-is-it-a-problem-for-women-8d870c35bbfe
"legitimate journalist" SMH
A few things Jena should know, but is maybe pretending she doesn't know:
1. Reporters are mostly lazy idiots, so asking stupid questions shouldn't lead to any useful generalizations of overall levels of sexism in the world.
2. It's a fact that female comedians are, while not uncommon, are a distinct minority in the business. So it's isn't really a stupid, though kind of a lazy question when a reporter asks something like, "What is it like to be a woman in comedy?
3. Think about it; would a reporter ask, "Do you think a woman can be sexy or attractive and funny? If they weren't making it obvious that they think you are sexy and attractive? They would never ask that of an ugly, non-sexy comedian. So just take the compliment.
That was kinda unreadable.
Another feminist scraping the bottom of the barrel for something to be offended by. She seems to not grasp that most of her questions were neuter and equally valid for men as for women, which rendered her interviews and her article a fail.
It hilariously follows, therefore, that most of the guys seemed to be answering the questions as if they were just normal questions - not realizing that they were doing a feminist butthurt interview.
Honestly, most interviews are full of trite questions. A really insightful, penetrating interview is a rare and precious thing. Have you ever seen the typical post-NASCAR interview? They don't get the "sexist" questions, sure... but they sure don't usually get good ones. "How was your car doing out there?" "How do you feel about this win?" "What were your thoughts as you took it around that last lap?"
I can see the point here, which is that there are a lot of lazy questions that target female professionals. I bet a male nurse being interviewed might see some of the same ones. "Gee, here is something obvious that we can discuss." To ask really good questions, you have to know some real details about the interview subject and their work.
You would think that "women in comedy" would be a bit worn down by now, though. Lucille Ball's radio plays can be heard today on Radio Classics...
rhhardin said...
"Males start being comedians when they pee standing up. That's hard to women to emulate."
FIFY
Which would you rather be? A rarity people are interested in or one of thousands struggling to attract interest?
And be careful what you wish for. Some male comic out there is going to take this premise and run with it (and she and other feminists will be the butt of the joke).
Dave GPT what’s it like being an AI comedian? Can robots be funny and sexy? Are all your jokes about being a robot? How has comedy changed for AI since you entered the field? Do robots steal jokes from the Internet or come up with original material?
“The New Yorker, The Guardian and The New York Times agree ….” Imagine that.
Funny: Bleeds for several days.
Not Funny: Doesn't die.
I'll bet they didn't they ask the male comedians: "Can you do jokes that aren't about sex and dating?"
That WAS funnier the second time, wild chicken. You go, girl!
I agree with the first commentor. This may have been true 50 years ago, but that is a bygone era. The funniest comedians now are comediennes.
I agree with the first commentor. This may have true 50 years ago, but that is a bygone era. Nikki Glaser is probably the funniest comedian I've heard since Eddie Murphy
Christopher Hitchens would like a word
Why Women Aren’t Funny
or two
Why Women Still Aren't Funny
Half those questions look like they are a set up for the comedian to tell everyone how much victim status they have by being a female.
Can we talk? Joan Rivers
Not sure what the journalists’ standards are for either “sexy” or “funny,” but Goldie Hawn back in the days of my youth and Anna Kendrick today are clearly both sexy and funny. Dunno about stand up; I generally don’t pay much attention to stand up comedy.
Feminist humor. Or is it, humor the feminist? Kvetching can be funny, but only if you go over the top with it (i.e., don't take yourself serious).
OK, so, sexist questions asked of female comedians are out. Can we then agree that female-comedian jokes about what it's like to be a female comedian are also out? And while we're at it, just so we can cleanse the world of sexism once and for all, can we also agree that we shall have no more interviews, articles, shows, or any other sort of attention highlighting a woman-doing-x?
Sounds like self-own. Why female comedians are usually not very funny...
As another commenter points out, female comedians are a significant minority. I do stand up as a side hustle (although not as much as I used to), and it would usually be a 10:1 male to female ratio at an open mic. So you do stand out if you’re a female comedian and these are perfectly normal questions to ask.
I find Jena Friedman's stand-up routines to be clever, but only occasionally funny enough to get a laugh out of me. (Coincidentally, "Not Funny" is the title of her new book.)
I can admire the construction of her material as an intellectual exercise, but her material almost never comes as a surprise or catches me off-guard. Her agenda of gender politics is so up-front and obvious that the only question is what wordplay she will use to reach her destination; her destination is clear from the beginning.
The male comedy repertoire is expanded by the relative ease with which the male persona can play with the display of frightening levels of sociopathy, misanthropy, irresponsibility, and self-hatred. These behaviors create tension, and tension creates potential for comedic release.
I postulate, with no supporting evidence whatsoever, that it has some connection to the asymmetries involved in male and female reproduction.
Incidentally, my daughters are very amusing people, and one has even done comedy onstage. Women often succeed at comedy. But the repertoire of men and women is different, because they create different kinds of tension.
Lawlizard: Dave GPT what’s it like being an AI comedian? Can robots be funny and sexy? Are all your jokes about being a robot? How has comedy changed for AI since you entered the field? Do robots steal jokes from the Internet or come up with original material?
DaveGPT: As an AI language model, I have no emotions, thoughts, or feelings in the same way that a human does, therefore, I cannot make jokes about "being" of any kind, nor am I able to steal, since I have no intention to steal anything, and I am unable to access the internet. I am simply trained on the dataset provided by my programmers. My purpose is to provide helpful information. Is there anything else I can help you with today?
Dave: Can you steal billable hours?
DaveGPT: ...
As many others have pointed out, most journalists are dumb and lazy and biased, so stupid questions based on intersectionality are to be expected. Most of the interviewers probably have no idea who she is and have done no homework, so she's just "woman comedian" to them.
A good comedian would use this as material. I suppose that is what she is attempting to do here, but seems like a waste.
Tough being a woman - whatever that is - these days.
Can a man be funny and sexy? No.
Eddie Murphy thought he was.
Dane Cook tried.
Milton Berle actually got sexier when he put on a dress.
There is not a single funny comedian that was also sexy. To be a comedian is to be ostracized, comedians are like magicians but socially acceptable.
rhhardin said...
"Males start being comedians when they pee standing up. That's hard to women to emulate."
FIFY
Personally I think it's funnier when men pee sitting down, but that's me.
I asked ChatGPT for a joke such as Ann Althouse would make.
"Here's a joke that could be attributed to Ann Althouse:
Why did the law professor refuse to argue in court?
Because they didn't want to pass the bar!"
.....
I asked it to write a commercial for a beer company that has insulted its customer base and is trying to win that base back. Use a Clydesdale horse and an American flag
"Here's a potential script for a commercial featuring a Clydesdale horse and an American flag:
[The commercial opens on a sweeping shot of a beautiful, wide-open field, with a majestic Clydesdale horse grazing peacefully in the distance. The camera slowly zooms in on the horse as stirring, patriotic music begins to play.]
Voiceover: At [beer company name], we understand that the bond between a beer and its drinker is a special one. It's about more than just the drink in your hand – it's about the values and traditions that beer represents.
[Cut to a shot of an American flag waving proudly in the breeze.]
Voiceover: That's why we're proud to be an American beer company, rooted in the rich history and traditions of this great country.
[Cut back to the Clydesdale horse, who begins to trot towards the camera.]
Voiceover: But we know that we haven't always lived up to the high standards that our customers expect from us.
[Cut to a shot of a group of people sitting in a bar, looking unhappy and disappointed.]
Voiceover: We may have made some mistakes. We may have let you down. And for that, we're truly sorry.
[Cut back to the Clydesdale horse, who comes to a stop in front of the camera.]
Voiceover: But we're not giving up. We're not backing down. We're going to do whatever it takes to win back your trust and your loyalty.
[Cut to a shot of a bottle of beer being poured into a frosty glass.]
Voiceover: Because we believe that there's nothing more American than a good, cold beer.
[Cut back to the American flag, with the beer company's logo superimposed over it.]
Voiceover: So if you're willing to give us another chance, we promise to work tirelessly to earn back your respect and your admiration. Because at [beer company name], we're more than just a beer – we're a symbol of everything that makes this country great.
[The commercial fades to black, with the Clydesdale horse standing proudly in the foreground and the American flag waving in the background.]"
Michala Banas in “That’s Not My Dog”. QED.
If I had a dollar for every time a journalist asked me, “Is it hard being a woman in comedy?”
It comes with the same indignities as being a woman in almost every other industry in America, but at least we have a microphone!
Jena Friedman doesn't get it, even though she practically spells it out.
When a woman complains, it's assumed to be legitimate. The journalist asks a question like "Is it hard being a woman in comedy?" to find if she's in the mood to complain.
No journalist is going to ask a male comedian if it's hard being a man in comedy, because nobody cares about the answer.
Imagine a male comedian tweeting about the indignities of being a man in almost every industry in America. He'd get shit about that forever.
Some people might read that and think, "Ha, what indignities?" The thought can't even be considered.
Yes female comedians can be funny but quite often they are their own worst enemy in selecting material that only other women can relate to.
That's their choice, and I'm fine with it, but don't be surprised when it doesn't resonate with the rest of the audience. Like any material, the more niche it is, the smaller your audience will be.
You could probably do the same going the other way—make questions asked of men sound silly when asked of women.
Do you think it’s more difficult for male comics who are not attractive
The opposite. For male comedians, it’s helpful to be funny looking. The attractive ones are at a disadvantage. Which is to say, men face looks discrimination just like women. Friedman is manipulating the fact that the details are different to pretend it’s some special woman thing.
Tim Maguire nails it. It's almost as if there is some difference between the sexes culturally that is part of the fertile ground that comedians use to create humor.
Nah, that's crazy talk. That couldn't be it.
In defense of journalists (hell has frozen over), one can be forgiven for assuming that the average female comedian loves nothing more than talking about what it's like to be both female and a comedian.
Imagine black congressmen coming out complaining about all the questions leading with, "what's it like to be black in congress..."
The only real crime here is laziness, because what's the point of an interview if all you're going to ask the subject about is that which they talk about all the time anyway.
“The opposite. For male comedians, it’s helpful to be funny looking. The attractive ones are at a disadvantage. Which is to say, men face looks discrimination just like women. Friedman is manipulating the fact that the details are different to pretend it’s some special woman thing”.
Paging Steve Mittleman.
4/18/23, 5:56 AM
What's it like to be a male nurse?
Do people assume you must be gay?
Do female patients ever ask for a female nurse to replace you for certain procedures? Male patients?
There are very few really funny female comedians. Mostly because their humor is directed solely at women."Look at how we suffer at the hands of men" and on and on. "Men are such douche bags. Let me tell you why." There are exceptions. Tammy Pascatelli, " I married the smartest guy in the slow class."
The show, The Marvelous Mrs. Maisell is a good example. Midge Maisel just isn't funny. Even in funny situations she isn't funny. The supporting cast are hilarious.
The interviewer is asking the wrong question to the wrong people.
Norm McDonald had a few bits on why female comics aren't funny. They're still on YouTube. Bill Burr as well.
She really lowered the bar on what it means to be "bat shit crazy". None of the examples provided even come close to what it means to be "bat shit crazy".
Whiny chick with first world problems. Boring.
Jena Freidman did the Ted & Gracie video series spoofing NYTimes wedding vids.
Is it bad to point out the interview, as presented, isn't very funny?
Also at least for his second-to-last special Gaffigan's act WAS all about being a father (or at least it was almost all about his family life, etc).
What’s it like to be a man in comedy?
I get heckled a lot, and no one ever gives a shit about my feelings
When did you decide to become a male comedian?
I didn't. I decided to be a comedian
Was it hard to be a male comedian back when you were starting out?
It's always hard to be a comedian, moron.
Do you think it has changed for men since you got into the business?
Yep, all this politically correct /cancel culture bullshit is the antithesis of comedy. Comedy is about making fun of people and laughing at them, and that's just not allowed any more
Do you think men can be attractive and funny?
Possibly, but it's much harder than being ugly and funny. Because then I have jokes about mocking my looks
Do you think men can be sexy and funny?
No
Is it harder to date since you’ve started doing stand-up?
Now I get groupies. it's not dating, it's better, its sex without commitment.
Of course, and woman who's not utterly butt ugly can have that whenever she wants
Do you write your own material?
Seriously, you're whining about being asked the most basic question that anyone asks?
Is all your material about being a dad?
Wow, if some journalist asked you that your show must be really boring. Even Bill Cosby didn't ONLY joke about being a dad / parenthood issues
Do you think men can be sexy and funny?
No
Have you never seen Larry the Cable Guy?
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