The explanation about Balloon #1 — the "period of observation... allowed American officials to collect intelligence about the spy balloon" — is undercut by the action on Balloon/"Balloon" #2. The only difference seems to be the experience of getting criticized by "some Republican lawmakers." That shouldn't make any difference (unless the question isn't national security).
February 11, 2023
"The Pentagon said it shot down an unidentified object over frozen waters around Alaska on Friday at the order of President Biden...."
"U.S. officials said they could not immediately confirm whether the object was a balloon, but it was traveling at an altitude that made it a potential threat to civilian aircraft.... The Friday shootdown showed Mr. Biden taking direct and forceful action far more quickly than he did last week, when some Republican lawmakers criticized him for letting the spy balloon linger over the United States for several days before destroying it. But that period of observation last week allowed American officials to collect intelligence about the spy balloon, while in the episode on Friday, officials seemed unsure about what exactly they shot down."
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61 comments:
The first one was a trial balloon.
It is the height of irresponsibility to shoot down an aircraft in a situation like this, where there is no imminent threat to life or security, without identifying what it is. And it’s not “damning him if he does, damning him if he doesn’t” to say so. Both of these instances have been handled incompetently.
The only difference seems to be the experience of getting criticized by "some Republican lawmakers.
There is a difference. Balloon # 1 was at 80,000 ft, well above civilian aircraft. Balloon/object # 2 was at 40,000 ft which could interfere with civilian aircraft. That was the rationale they gave for shooting it down.
If this thing was at a civilian aircraft altitude, that -- to me -- overrides a preference to collect intelligence about it.
It would have been nice to confirm what it was before shooting it down, though.
Althouse you are free to maintain your own opinion, including doubting the veracity of the reason(s) as to when and how and why the two shoot downs occurred.
But contrary to your suggestion, there was at least one stated reason for different treatment. “Balloon 1” had been above commercial aviation altitudes when it was over Montana (and, I believe, earlier over Alaska). “Balloon 2” was shot down from 40,000 feet. Very close to commercial aviation.
"But that period of observation last week allowed American officials to collect intelligence about the spy balloon."
Is that a provable statement? Did the NYT get some information that indicates this is a true statement? Unlikely. They have to reprint the party line, because the job of a newspaper is not to ask questions.
One other question; and I am hitting “Publish Your Comment” before any comments have appeared…
Is this a case of “Balloon 1 & 2”?
Was the second object a balloon at all? Or a drone of some kind?
Biden: "Xi, send up another one. I need some help here."
Xi: "Will do. Don't have time to put together a big one. How about a tiny one?"
Biden: "Anything .... anything. Thanks. Will not forget it."
It's a national security in so far as ersatz President Biden and his family are beholden to their Chinese paymasters. But that cuts through a large swath of America - universities, corporations, think tanks, CEO's etc, etc, ad nauseum, so forth and so on. It's not a lonely path. As Alexis Tocqueville noted - we are a greedy people. It's part of our national character.
I question the timing...
Balloon #1 intelligence collected by... Morgan Fairchild!
Yeah.
That's the Ticket.
Morgan Fairchild!
Rule number 1 of projectile weapons. Always know what it is that you are shooting at. This incident is just as bad as the first one if they didn’t identify it first.
Was it some isolated eccentric using homemade drones to hunt caribou and bears?
Was an oil company using a drone/balloon/plane to scout for oil and check the weather?
Has Bill Gates started a crackpot polar icecap wheat farm environmental scheme?
Was it China? Was it Russia? Was the Jamaican Bobsled team scouting for an icy hill?
The truth has probably already been reported here: https://weeklyworldnews.com/
Again, the NY Times shows its contempt and bias against Republicans -
“The Friday shootdown showed Mr. Biden taking direct and forceful action far more quickly than he did last week, when some Republican lawmakers criticized him for letting the spy balloon linger over the United States for several days before destroying it.” -
when they conveniently don’t mention that Democrat senators, especially US Senator Jon Tester of Montana, were angry over the balloon last week lingering over military installations over Montana. The NYT must not let its readers know that Dems criticized their boy in the Oval Office for his indecision and inaction and thus weakness for days during an obvious Chinese mission over US territory.
How many civilian aircraft fly at 40,000'? In Alaska?
They do specifically call it an "unidentified object" a number of times. Others have commented on the stupidity of shooting at something without knowing what it is and I agree fully.
I wonder what kind of unidentified object it was. Swimming? Walking? Perambulating?
Is there any doubt it was flying or at least floating?
Wouldn't that make it an "unidentified flying object" or UFO?
How about some honesty in reporting "white house confirms shooting down a UFO" would be a great and more appropriate headline.
John Henry
Humperdink,
Search (using ddg or Bing) aircraft flight paths. There is a lot of air traffic over Alaska. It is right on the great circle route between us and Asia.
Most commercial flights are 35-40m feet. Business jets often at 40-50
John Henry
I'd avoid taking any of those touristy hot air balloon rides for the next year or so if I were you. With Biden needing to save face over his Chinese spy balloon catastrophe, he's gonna be blasting anything floating in the sky within a hundred miles of US territory to kingdom come!
I see that 'Chuck the liar' is concerned that we might have shot down an alien craft from outer space. Rest assured, little Chuckie, that the debris will be safely ensconced at area 51 with the rest of the alien craft.
No matter what you do, don't call Numba 2 a balloon.
So Biden couldn't see his way clear to shoot down a Chinese spy balloon until it had collected all the data it could, but a cylindrical object of unknown origin and no discernible method of propulsion, THAT he shoots down.
First, he gets us into a war with Russia, then he gets us into a war with Planet X.
Others have commented on the stupidity of shooting at something without knowing what it is
It was an object in American airspace that did not identify itself. You don't want your not-at-all-a-spy-craft-or-balloon-bomb to not be destroyed? Then it's incumbent upon YOU to identify it. The burden isn't on U.S. national defense forces to do so.
Shoot it down. Shoot them all down.
One almost wonders if the administration released this most recent object itself, so that it could be seen shooting something down
Makes me think of the movie "Starman."
I don't get the feeling that I am getting the whole story about these balloons. Where are pictures of the instruments on the first balloon? We should know precisely what it was carrying by now. Also, still waiting for pictures, videos, and reports on the NordStream pipeline breaks.
Anyone who shoots something and then makes the claim they didn’t know what it was is acting extremely irresponsibly. Or just lying straight up. Joe President has managed to fuck up our response to both current “balloon” events. YGTBFKM.
Rusty said...
I see that 'Chuck the liar' is concerned that we might have shot down an alien craft from outer space. Rest assured, little Chuckie, that the debris will be safely ensconced at area 51 with the rest of the alien craft.
What the fuck even is this?
This is a moderated comment?
There is a difference. Balloon # 1 was at 80,000 ft, well above civilian aircraft. Balloon/object # 2 was at 40,000 ft which could interfere with civilian aircraft. That was the rationale they gave for shooting it down.
This is a difference being articulated by the current administration but is contradicted by eye-witnesses. While the first balloon was still aloft and reporters were working the story the big L.A. radio station KFI played audio recordings from airline pilots reporting they saw it. One pilot said as they flew past the balloon quickly dropped from 60,000 feet to 20,000 and held at the lower altitude until the observers were out of range. Like ALL official statements on Balloon 1, the excuse it stayed above 60,000 feet is contradicted by witnesses.
@John Henry. Thx. Every commercial flight I’ve been on has not flown over 36,000’. Did not know they have flown higher on regular basis.
Chuck, you dumb fuck- if these comments were being moderated to any respectable degree, we wouldn't be seeing yours like we weren't for almost 2 years. If you can't handle being mocked, go away- you won't be missed.
Regarding the pilot reports, the contemporaneous audio the FAA released was more believable than any statement by Biden, Kirby et al. Having a second poorly reported story with unreliable political sources is not having the ameliorative effect that Team Slow Joe apparently wanted. All we get is misinformation.
I'm confused. What are the rules for violating US airspace?
Chuck said...
“Rusty said...
I see that 'Chuck the liar' is concerned that we might have shot down an alien craft from outer space. Rest assured, little Chuckie, that the debris will be safely ensconced at area 51 with the rest of the alien craft.
What the fuck even is this?
This is a moderated comment?”
Grow up, Chuck.
Chuck, if you don't want to be mocked perhaps you should go elsewhere. You've earned all the contempt that comes your way.
In a previous comment, I called Chuck a dumb fuck. I want to apologize to all- I meant to say he was a lying dumb fuck.
Comments may need to pass through moderation. Comments should respond to material raised in the post. I encourage brevity and substance and discourage personal attacks and repetition. You must use a name or pseudonym. The non-name "unknown" is not accepted.
All commercial aircraft at that altitude are under positive radar control at all times. The chance of a midair at that altitude is nil.
It is not believable that our military did not identify the odject... cameras.
Blogger Chuck said..."Comments may need to pass through moderation. Comments should respond to material raised in the post. I encourage brevity and substance and discourage personal attacks and repetition. You must use a name or pseudonym. The non-name "unknown" is not accepted."
Not this again.
2 balloons down.
97 to go...
Just dipping my toes into the obvious here, but it's clear that the "object" was a Russian weatherman (access to balloon) in a 55 gallon drum trying to avoid Putin's military mobilization by escaping from Siberia to the US. Of course, the remains of poor Igor will never be found.
The Martians came in peace.
And now they are PISSED!
Just dipping my toes into the obvious here, but it's clear that the "object" was a Russian weatherman (access to balloon) in a 55 gallon drum trying to avoid Putin's military mobilization by escaping from Siberia to the US. Of course, the remains of poor Igor will never be found.
Chuck takes no fucking hints. Ever. Nice try guys but the efforts were in vain.
Is there any reason to believe anything that the Biden administration says?
Apology accepted.
Humperdink said...
How many civilian aircraft fly at 40,000'? In Alaska?
*************
Many, routinely. A 747 I flew in 25 years got up to 48,000 feet.
Cold, clear and relatively dense air makes for great flying.
Where are the pictures?
What the Hell are they up to?
By "they" I guess I mean us.
LLR and Whitmer Fanboy Chuck: "What the f*** even is this?
This is a moderated comment?”
LLR Chuck would very much like to speak with the Manager.
Which is funny because it was just yesterday LLR Chuck was back to his old Eddie Haskell-like Full Suckup Mode with Althouse. So over the top it has to be seen to be believed.
Our FakeCon Chuck sure is one fickle schizophrenic democratical NPC, isn't he?
Joe: "I'm confused. What are the rules for violating US airspace?"
Quite simple.
ChiCom violations of US Airspace are allowed, assuming all payoffs to US citizens/politions etc are up to date.
All other incursions are subject to retaliation or no retaliatiob depending on the degree of successful payoffs to US officials, primarily democraticals.
If you are wondering why this sounds alot like what the old 5 Families of NYC used to do, thats because its exactly what they used to do.
But only exactly.
"The Pentagon said it shot down an unidentified object
Undocumented might be more in line with the Biden Administration.
But we don't shoot undocumented items entering our borders.
Just shot down another one over Canada, benefit of the doubt reading is that something they found on that balloon 💠concentrated their attention.
We've finally gone a song for Biden's presidency.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hiwgOWo7mDc&ab_channel=NENA
We got another one over Canada today. Referred to as an "unidentified object".
And then there were three. WTF.
One balloon in the sky
One balloon in the sky
Shoot it down,
Scatter pieces around,
Two balloons in the sky.
Two balloons in the sky
Two balloons in the sky
Shoot them down,
Scatter pieces around,
Four balloons in the sky.
Four balloons in the sky?
I think so. Yes, I think so.
Chuck, they approved a comment by Gilbar a week or so back that suggested a 'final solution' for liberals.
Only when called out did it disappear.
That statement about moderation is just a deniability clause.
99 balloons float around the wall, 99 balloons float by.
Shoot one down as it floats around, 98 balloons are left on the wall.
98 balloons float around the wall, 98 balloons float by.
Shoot one down as it floats around, 97 balloons are left on the wall.
97 balloons float around the wall, 97 balloons float by.
Shoot one down as it floats around, 96 balloons are left on the wall.
.
.
.
.
I am beginning to think, except for the first one, it is all made up stuff to help Biden's image. Yes the Military is bullshitting us... maybe even floated some balloons off Alaska themselves to put forth some kind of 'national security' shtick.
After all they have lied to us so much...
Imagine thinking brain dead Biden or fussy Justin will protect from anything and also STFU chuck
Biden wanted a do-over and told Milley to find something and shoot it down.
On the other hand, two in one week makes you wonder how many have been overlooked or ignored the past 40 years. Because I can't remember this ever happening before.
Mark said...
"Chuck, they approved a comment by Gilbar a week or so back that suggested a 'final solution' for liberals.
Only when called out did it disappear.
That statement about moderation is just a deniability clause."
And your motives are as pure as the driven snow? Not a word of snark from you? You are simply here to inform. To draw attention to the regular bullshit being spread by the resident liberals.
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