"Top military officials had advised against shooting down the balloon while over the continental US because of the risk the debris could pose to civilians and property on the ground...."
ADDED: "Spy balloons have been around since the late 1700s, but why are militaries around the world still flying them in 2023?" (Politico).
They were also used by both sides during the American Civil War (1861–65) and continued in use during the Franco-Prussian War (1870–71)....
Caquot type kite balloon, used by the Allies in the mid-latter part of WWI World War I was the high point for the military use of observation balloons, which were extensively deployed by both sides....
Observation balloons also played a role during the Cold War; for example, Project Mogul used high-altitude observation balloons to monitor Soviet nuclear tests. However, heavier-than-air craft now perform the vast majority of operations. Aerostats have been used by US and coalition military forces in Iraq and in Afghanistan. Developments in reconnaissance technology, such as reconnaissance aircraft, and eventually spy satellites and drones, have now rendered observation balloons mostly obsolete.
Posts
126 comments:
And now the Chicoms know how quickly we will respond to provocation.
Debis field. Utter BS. A few small bullet holes would cause slow deflation and consequently a slow descent to earth.
Bad news: all the info it gathered has already been sent to CCP HQ.
Good news: if it landed on water, maybe some of it survived intact and can be reverse engineered.
Both above totally speculative. More likely it's CCP's way of reminding Americans that China owns US leadership and there is nothing we can do about it. +1 for CCP in its battle with Ukraine in this competition.
If there really are two, three or more of these CCP balloons, President Trump would have personally coordinated with each government, even that of Fidel Trudeau, gotten their permission, and then shot down all of them. Total elapsed time 3 hours. Then he would have sent Xi to bed without his dinner.
But the DNC cheated the USA out of a real President. All the things we are missing out on, in having an unleader foisted on us instead of a gifted leader. God knows what price we will someday pay for the DNC's treachery.
And, PS, who killed Seth Rich?
"Top military officials had advised against shooting down the balloon while over the continental US because of the risk the debris could pose to civilians and property on the ground...."
That will be the line from the mainstream media -- that Biden was cautious and didn't want to hurt anyone.
The real story is why it wasn't shot down 12 miles off the Alaskan coast.
And that WOULD be the story -- if Trump were President.
I'm looking forward to learning what the payload was. Perhaps our government will oblige us with that information.
I suspect we're going to hear some version of "Biden wasn't warned and couldn't take action sooner and the Joint Chiefs all agreed with Biden's excellent plan", with the Pentagon leaking that it wasn't true.
See also: Biden's withdrawl from Afghanistan.
So, unlike U2, where the USSR confronted USA with hard evidence of spying, the evidence is all blown apart and under 1000 feet of ocean. How convenient.
That balloon may as well have said, "Trump for President".
And if it had, Biden would have shot it down 12 miles offshore of Alaska.
More Info that CNN isn't reporting:
It was shot down over the Atlantic Ocean just off the shoreline of Myrtle Beach, SC. Directly east of Myrtle Beach proper. Military jets circled it for several hours leaving obvious contrails as it's very cold today. Appeared it was flying about 20,000 feet. It was taken out by an air-to-air missile at 2:45pm.
The FAA shut down KMYR (Myrtle Beach International Airport) for about an hour beginning at 2:45pm shortly after the shoot down, but has lifted the TFR and the airport has resumed normal operations at this time.
Do you think the DNC will be able to drop balloons at the end of their 2024 convention?
Or will it still be too soon?
"Top military officials had advised against shooting down the balloon while over the continental US because of the risk the debris could pose to civilians and property on the ground...."
Risk to civilians? Is this the same government that insisted that people be fired from their jobs for not taking an experimental medicine that the manufacturer was protected from liability for?
I'm assuming (guessing) that the U.S. Air Force, etc. that have been tailing it since Montana have been deploying our best jamming/interception technology against it. Hopefully China got very little in real time once their balloon signals were being jammed.
There's good money... when you're in bed with the Chi coms...
Small price to pay.
Too late.
may day may day... come in fang fang
Blogger Abdul Abulbul Amir said...
"Debis field. Utter BS. A few small bullet holes would cause slow deflation and consequently a slow descent to earth."
Video shows the sensor package separated almost immediately after balloon was hit with free fall to earth. Even over water there won't be anything of significance left to recover.
A US official added on Friday to CNN: “This isn’t like ‘Top Gun’ where it just explodes and doesn’t go anywhere. It’s large and it’s metal, it would put hundreds of Americans at risk.”
Fire that official. Either he's a moron or he thinks we are. The balloon is big, but the metal isn't. And they didn't want to hit either of the people living in Montana.
Abdul wrote: "Debis (sic) field. Utter BS. A few small bullet holes would cause slow deflation and consequently a slow descent to earth."
There was a significant amount of debris which immediately blew away from the balloon and fell into the ocean (probably a mixture of debris from the balloon's solar panels, main structure and the missile that took it out.)
The balloon part of course floated quite a bit as it fell back into the ocean over the course of about 5 minutes.
Of course all that could have happened over non-populated Alaska the minute it crossed into US airspace, but our military and political leadership didn't actually want to shoot it down. Their hand was forced by the fact of the balloon becoming public as it flew over the Montana nuclear missile fields. It could have also been shot down there with zero harm possible to anyone as that airspace is restricted, but again, our military and political leaders didn't WANT to shoot it down.
Once people found out about their calumny, however ... their hand was forced. And only now, once it has been found out, did Tony Blinken cancel his sightseeing trip to Bejing on our dime to meet with his buddies over there.
Once it's no longer over our territory, do we still have the right to shot it down? Not that I give a rat's ass if we don't.
Too little too late. All data and telemetry has already been transferred.
NO ONE being this “debris hitting people” bull.
"the risk the debris could pose to civilians and property on the ground"
Can't have that in the home of the brave.
Anyway, even allowing for the BS argument, this is what spending hundreds of billions gets us?
I guess this falls under the aegis of better late than never, but after letting it float across the US unimpeded negates that imo. We were probed.
Waiting on Chuck to tell us how it was handled just right by Biden. Or he could just go the route that Kristol did and tell us that it was somehow racist.
This was a trial balloon on the part of the Chinese in order to test our nerve. The big guy at the Pentagon is onboard with Beijing, but it didn't fly politically. No doubt the Chines OK'd the stunt, with recompense of course.
Biden's first instinct was apparently to shoot it down, but he was overruled by his handlers--i.e., the real people in charge. But even they had to bend to political pressure.
So once it is out over international waters what is the legal justification for shooting it down?
It should have been taken out as soon as it entered US airspace.
This is not possible.
Why, just yesterday, yesterday(!), Field Marshall & Generallisimo LLR Chuck, drawing on his deep deep deep insider knowledge of military affairs gleened from whatever the dopes at The Bulwark had recently vomited up as well as his latest very full pitcher of gin and tonics, was laughing and laughing and laughing and laughing at those horrific and deplorable and irredeemable "Trumpists" that wanted the balloon shot down when all the Super Duper Enlightened Smart Set (defined as anyone who is not a conservative republican...obviously) just "knew" that it wasn't that easy at all!
Well, unless the US military underwent a crash course in high altitude balloon busting in the last 24 hours, it appears our loveable lug of a fake LLR was simply spouting ever more lies in defense of his beloved Biden and fellow democraticals.
Quelle surprise!
Gee, it's almost as if LLR Chuck only posts at Althouse blog to smear and lie about Trump and anyone who ever voted for him AND to drive a wedge between Althouse and her readers.
Kai Akker: "But the DNC cheated the USA out of a real President."
I believe you meant the DNC, the deep staters, Big Tech, the legacy media and the GOPe.
Do we have borders at all?
So many questions. Why did the pentagon allow it to enter our airspace? Why did they allow it to traverse the whole country? Did the Whitehouse have a deal with the CCP? Does our pentagon have a deal with the CCP? What were they looking for? Did they find what they were looking for?
One thing is certain. Once contaminated by salt water any data will have been destroyed. Was that the intent all along?
" God knows what price we will someday pay for the DNC's treachery."
This is part of it. The United States is at the mercy of our elected grifters.
The commie balloon was first over Alaska. We should have shot it down then before it gathered all the intelligence it did and sent that back to China in real time. Too densely populated?
I think it was a good move to not immediately shoot it down over land. Who knows what it could’ve been carrying. Hopefully enough pieces are left to piece together to learn something about this thing.
>"Top military officials had advised against shooting down the balloon while over the continental US because of the risk the debris could pose to civilians and property on the ground...."<
And the immediate response from any other remotely competent CinC on the planet: "Uh, negative, gentleman, but I would prefer to win the next election. Find a place, find a way, and kill that thing - on live TV."
Althouse, I think you nailed it with your previous post about "weather balloon". Someone in China's government is having a bad day.
Oh… and cue/queue up the conspiracy theories. I see some are already there.
What did they shot it down with? I hope it was lasers. Lasers make everything cooler.
And now the Chicoms know how quickly we will respond to provocation.
A transnational license to provocation, assessment, and response.
There was a little slip of paper inside that said, "Sometimes the object of the journey is not the end, but the journey itself."
Russia Collusion Truther and Hillary/FBI Hoax Dossier Dead Ender Inga: "Oh… and cue/queue up the conspiracy theories. I see some are already there."
You are far and away the most prolific pusher of transparently moronic hoaxes and conspiracies ever to post at Althouse blog.
Only gadfly gives you a run for your money.
"I'm looking forward to learning what the payload was. Perhaps our government will oblige us with that information."
Why you shouldn't hold your breath:
1) If the ballon carried intelligence-garnering (zing!) apparatus of any military or political significance, nothing will be said officially. One does not reveal counter-intelligence to the opposition.
2) If the balloon's function was entirely innocent, nothing will be said officially because Joe won't like it. He'll pout and drop his ice cream cone on the carpet.
3) Nothing true will be said in any case.
Inga: "I think it was a good move to not immediately shoot it down over land. Who knows what it could’ve been carrying. Hopefully enough pieces are left to piece together to learn something about this thing."
LOL
Plenty of pieces would have been left if it had been destroyed over land. But your boy Biden, answerable to his handler Xi, certainly made sure that didnt happen.
Not to worry though. Tampons are fully stocked in mens lavatories on military bases across the globe now.
“Gee, it's almost as if LLR Chuck only posts at Althouse blog to smear and lie about Trump and anyone who ever voted for him AND to drive a wedge between Althouse and her readers.”
Gee, it seems that Drago’s interest in Chuck comes before any interest in a Chinese spy ballon over US territory.
I think it was a good move to not immediately shoot it down over land. Who knows what it could’ve been carrying.
Yeah. I'm sure that would've been your tune had Trump been President - and he allowed this thing to enter US airspace not once, but twice - and then permitted it to fly clear across the country before shooting it down over the ocean.
Yep. No doubt about it.
Don't know what took the president so long. His people have had plenty of practice ...
What do you do with ... balloons ... ?
CBS Mornings via YouTube
Yes... shot it down days later after it did all kinds of information gathering over 3000+ miles of the USA.
And then... they shot it down over the ocean.. where no one could find any pieces of it to see just what was on board.
How convenient.
Only reason I can think of that might justify not shooting down the spy balloon over thinly populated Montana is if there were reason to think the ballon carried radioactive or other hazardous material in sufficient quantities to affect a large area. But if a foreign power is floating a large amoount of hazardous material over our country, we ought to be making strong protests and imposing severe sanctions on the perpetrator.
So if you're advising Biden, don't you tell him to do nothing that might allert the public to the enormity of what China is doing?
Several posters have said it was shot down with a missile. Listening to Fox as it was just occurring, several peeps said they used 20mm cannon fire. If so, why not 50 caliber machine gun fire for a slower descent..... or don't they have that anymore?
This whole episode is so odd. All of a sudden China sends a spy balloon over the US? Who uses spy balloons? What can they get using a spy balloon that they can't get with a satellite? If the Biden administration was complicit, why tell the public about it? If they weren't complicit, why not shoot it down bas soon as it entered US airspace?
“A US official added on Friday to CNN: “This isn’t like ‘Top Gun’ where it just explodes and doesn’t go anywhere. It’s large and it’s metal, it would put hundreds of Americans at risk.””
“Fire that official. Either he's a moron or he thinks we are. The balloon is big, but the metal isn't. And they didn't want to hit either of the people living in Montana.”
Have they ever been to E MT, or maybe SD? Excluding cities like Billings, the state is extremely sparsely populated. Probably equivalent to WY outside of Cheyenne, and only 3rd and 2nd (respectively) least densely populated states, after AK, in the country. We are talking quarter, half, or even multi section (sq mile) farms. Or even huger ranches. They should have just notified everyone downwind for several hundred miles, shot it down, as they did, and do it again if it isn’t coming down fast enough. ANG loves this sort of stuff - they get to use their gun without the strictures of being on a range. When you are talking a couple people per square mile, you’re just not going to hit anyone.
If the calculus here was that it was more damaging to America if a few rural people MIGHT POSSIBLY be injured from balloon debris, vs. the potential danger to NATIONAL SECURITY going on in front of our eyes, we are well and truly fucked.
Just who are these pussified "military" running thing today???
Imagine another scenario, where spot what we think is an incoming enemy missile"
"We can't shoot that thing down, because someone might get hurt!!"
What fuckwits.
After it had already traversed the country, what was the rationale for shooting it down at all?
Who's gonna resign or be fired over the mishandling of this? My guess, no one. Medals will be given to the pilots who performed the shoot down and that will be it.
They tried for days to persuade senile guy to give the order to shoot it down. He cried, tears streaming down his face. He couldn't sleep. "Not the balloon. Don't shoot down the balloon. 1935 in Scranton, I was working three jobs and acing entrance exams for elite schools. I was 9 years old. Everyone said the black kids were tough, but I was tougher. I went up against those fuckin' ..."
That's enough for now sir. We'll make you a deal. We'll get a new balloon, a red one. Then of course ice cream and a trip to the zoo.
Peace reigns.
Guess nobody up in here grew up in late 40's early 50's and watched "THE DAY THE EARTH STOOD STILL" people still full of FEAR about things they don't understand, kill it first. Mankind very very slow to learn.False Evidence Appearing Real FEAR ever see so many fearful people not in war?
Drago said:
"Gee, it's almost as if LLR Chuck only posts at Althouse blog to smear and lie about Trump and anyone who ever voted for him AND to drive a wedge between Althouse and her readers."
****************
Yes! that's Chicom Chuck's modus operandi. Not only does he accuse Trump supporters of being "stupid" for wanting bring the balloon down, he was absolutely orgasmic to report the US couldn't possibly do so, technological simps that we are!!
CHI-e-na triumphs!! Woo hoo!
What a shocking full-frontal dickhead.
Rumor has it the balloon’s sensors were being jammed while overflying the US. The balloon was shot down off the coast of South Carolina at 2:39 p.m. by an F-22 Raptor from Joint Base Langley-Eustis. Other aircraft, including F-15s from Barnes Air National Guard Base in Massachusetts, also were involved in the op. The F-22 used a single AIM-9X Sidewinder missile, launched at 58,000 feet to hit the balloon at an altitude of between 60,000 to 65,000 feet.
We spent lots of money to bring down a cheap balloon. A far less sophisticated jet with an accurate cannon could have popped the balloon to bring it down in one piece as opposed to splattering it into the ocean using a Sidewinder - although there is the belief that the balloon was shut down and the payload was destroyed by the PRC.
A thought experiment:
Imagine, if you will, a known "spy balloon" launched by the US, which floats over the entirety of Russia, west to east, while the Russians wring their hands and do nothing because af an alleged hazard to civilians.
Who looks worse, the US or Russia?
I think that the answer is clear, to anyone other than the pinheads of the liberal establishment who believe that being "mean" is bad and being "nice" is good, with regard to international politics.
Substitute any two countries in the world for US and Russia, and you get the same answer.
I was rooting for the Jewish Space Lasers to take it out.
Also--does this new "no debris" doctrine mean that we're not going to shoot down foreign military aircraft once they are over land?
Inga thinks that people who are upset that a known Chinese spy balloon was allowed to pass over the entire US without being disturbed, who are unwilling to believe the explanation of our own government that they were concerned about possible debris, are "conspiracy theorists."
I give you credit for incredible reflexes, Inga.
Hypo:
If one presumes another batch of Fauci's best was aboard, would it be better to dump it into the Atlantic?
Was this the proverbial "3:00 a.m. phone call"? And how many days did it take Joe to answer?
Any truth to the rumor (which I just made up) that they had to wait until it was over the ocean so the Navy could shoot it down, because the Air Farce pilots could hit a barn from inside even you closed the doors?
Gee, what a surprise.
I got really tired of hearing all the nonsense about how impossible it was to shoot down a balloon or why it was a bad idea.
Whatever.
Russia Collusion Truther and Hillary/FBI Hoax Dossier Dead Ender Inga: "Gee, it seems that Drago’s interest in Chuck comes before any interest in a Chinese spy ballon over US territory."
Unlike you, clearly, most normal people are able to comment on multiple topics.
I know the mere thought of that can send you into a panicked hysteria so I forgive your latest outburst.
Btw, do you STILL believe the hoax dossier is "mostly proven true"?
LOL
Big Mike: "Any truth to the rumor (which I just made up) that they had to wait until it was over the ocean so the Navy could shoot it down, because the Air Farce pilots could hit a barn from inside even you closed the doors?"
Heh.
"U.S. Shoots Down Spy Balloon As It Was Getting Too Close To Ukraine"
--Babylon Bee
Weren't our guys intercepting all the data being sent from the balloon to China? Could it be that just as intelligence agencies let a spy run around awhile so as to find out who his contacts are and what he's doing, so they let this balloon drift to see why the Chicoms are using a balloon? Because why were they? And our guys wanted to get the sensor so they shot the balloon down over water where an Alvin-type sub could retrieve it. Hunt for Red October balloon's sensor package? Anyhow, I don't think it was a real victory for the Chinese because I felt an incredible surge of hostility toward them and that may have been a common response. That's not what they want
The balloon has been shot down. OUr national nightmare is over. Our greatest national security crisis since WW II (to speak in McCainiac terms) is over.
Judas Priest. What's more amazing the incredible dumbness or the insane obsession the Center-right has over a Chinese balloon?
We have millions of illegal aliens pouring over our Southern Border or overstaying their visas. Many are Gang members, Crooks, Drug Smugglers, People with Contagious diseases and the mentally ill. No one cares.
We have an exploding crime wave, just yesterday a ER doctor in Orange county was run over and stabbed by some unemployed black dude in a Lexus, who supposedly shouted racial insults. And we have Biden poking the Russian Bear trying to start WW III, while Republican/Democrat congressmen want to start a war with Iran.
But lets not care about that, lets focus on a fucking BALLOON! Oh, and in case you didn't realize it, the Chicoms have hundreds of ICBM' that could wipe us out in 10 seconds. And also Spy satilites that can supposedly read words on a book.
“The balloon spotted this week over Montana was not the first time the U.S. has detected Chinese balloons over their territory—with previous incursions occurring during the Trump Administration,” Bloomberg reported.”
“The Associated Press also has a new report that quotes a defense expert who said that Chinese spy balloons have been detected near sensitive sites in Hawaii, home to a large U.S. military presence, during the past five years.”
I wasn't rooting for the Chinese balloon. Or the Chinese government. I didn't say that the shootdown was impossible. I suggested that it would carry some obvious major risks if attempted over the U.S. mainland. So too, apparently, the Defense Department thought the same.
I suggested (because I read intelligent observers of U.S. military operations, and not the NY Post) that the likely interceptor would be an F-22 Raptor. It was. I suggested that "guns" had been tried by Canadian F-18's many years ago and it didn't much work. I suggested that one of the possible weapons would be an AIM 9x. But problems with an AIM 9x would be the lack of a radar signature or any IR pickup with a balloon. Also a problem with any earlier attempted shootdown, when the balloon was up above 100,000 feet was controlling a Sidewinder in atmosphere that thin. It isn't what that missile was designed for. But we now see that the balloon had descended to an altitude that an AIM was usable. And with days to prep a few special AIM 9's, they could reprogram some of the radar sensing.
Here is what I wrote about 16 hours before the shootdown; I'm pretty good with just about all of it:
Chuck said...
Ann Althouse said...
Who's less believable here? China or the U.S.? It's some kind of crazy competition.
Serious question. Has the White House/Department of Defense/U.S. Government said anything about this situation that is not credible? What, exactly?
****
dbp said...
It seems as if we would have a number of ways of taking down the balloon. There are variable reports of its altitude, which makes sense because balloons navigate by doing the one thing they can do; gain and lose altitude.
The Patriot missile can reach to 85 thousand feet and the THAD can reach to 120 thousand feet. But what about a plain vanilla F-15 armed with a 20 mm cannon? The F-15 can itself reach 65,000 feet, the muzzle velocity of the M61A1 20 mm cannon is 3,380 feet/second. The air's pretty thin at 65,000 feet, but in a vacuum it would take a projectile at that speed (which doesn't count the 1,000 fps speed of the plane) over 100 seconds to come to a stop, if fired straight up. If the average speed of the 20 mm projectiles was 1,600 fps, 100 seconds would be 160,000 feet. The balloon would have to be well above 200,000 feet to be out of range.
No, we actually don't have a lot of easy or safe ways to take down a balloon at the altitude of this Chinese balloon, which is reported to be at >90,000 feet and perhaps a lot higher.
It is well above commercial aviation altitudes, so there is no urgency there. If it were at commercial aviation altitude, everything that follows would be different.
Our highest-altitude advanced fighter/interceptor is the F-22. Max cruising altitude 65,000 feet.
The last reported attempted fighter interception of a balloon of this size was attempted many years ago by Canadian F-18's. They were able to get close to a large balloon out in the North Atlantic, and armed with guns, they let loose with more than 1,000 rounds. It didn't do much to bring the balloon down quickly.
Our main air-to-air or surface-to-air missiles would be the AIM 9x or AIM 120. They both need a radar signature and/or an infrared signature to track the target. They aren't designed to attack targets like balloons (with next to nothing in terms of metallic structure, no radar reflection and no heat signature), and they aren't intended for use at heights above 90,000 feet, where their guidance fins don't really work in the thin atmosphere.
And of course, what about Americans living on the ground below where the stratospheric firefight might take place? What about the 20 mm rounds from an F-22's M61A2 Gatling Gun? What about the AIM 120 debris? AIM 9 Sidewinders that don't strike the balloon?
"SHOOT IT DOWN" is what Trumpists in February of 2023 say to prove that they are as stupid and as Trumpy as they were in 2020.
2/3/23, 8:39 PM Delete
Do these pilots get a Chairman Mao portrait painted on their fighter jet like the WWII pilots got to paint rising suns on their Hellcats? Good practice for the upcoming OPERATION SAVE TAIWAN duty.
Biden praises Top Gun F-22 fighter jet pilot who shot down China spy balloon off the coast of South Carolina with a single missile - after the President vowed to 'take care of it' and the FAA closed airspace and three airports
F-22. Check.
AIM 9x. Check.
Wait for offshore targeting, with a cleared area. Check.
Use an AIM 9x with a bit of radar trickeration, at a time when the balloon is well below 90,000 feet. Check.
Now, my thoughts 'n prayers are with the Congressional Republicans and the NY Post Editors in this dark and depressing hour where President Biden ordered a successful shoot down of the Chinese balloon. I hope that wellness checks are being undertaken for Sean Hannity, Mark Levin and Rep. Marjorie Taylor Greene.
The Pentagon says the ocean depth is 47 feet in the area the balloon went down----far too deep for the US to recover it---right, Chuck?
RIGHT????
We screwed up exiting Afghanistan but, look here, we can pop a balloon over the Atlantic!
Apparently the world stage is just a myth.
Chuck doubles down on groveling self-debasement and : says:
"SHOOT IT DOWN" is what Trumpists in February of 2023 say to prove that they are as stupid and as Trumpy as they were in 2020.
********
Heh. You pooh-poohed our ability to destroy the balloon. We destroyed the missile with one shot. Game Set Match:
The score: America: Infinity
Chuck Dick
Explain your last sentence. Particularly, why wasn't Biden persuaded that it was "stupid" to shoot that balloon down? DIDN'T HE KNOW that Trump people favored do so, and THEREFORE it was stupid?
And with all Chuck's talk of aircraft altitude limitations, and AIMS relying on heat signatures , an F-22 shot the balloon down with one shot using an AIM 9X Sidewinder, a weapon introuced 22 years ago.
But Chuck poohpoohed that, too: "AIM 9 Sidewinders that don't strike the balloon?"--I'm assuming he thought they would not only miss, but endanger people on the ground when they crashed to earth..
SNORT.
Will someone call Spatula City to arrange a shipment to Chuck. His shorts need scraping out, Big Time.
Chuck doubles down on groveling self-debasement and : says:
"SHOOT IT DOWN" is what Trumpists in February of 2023 say to prove that they are as stupid and as Trumpy as they were in 2020.
********
Heh. You pooh-poohed our ability to destroy the balloon. We destroyed the missile with one shot. Game Set Match:
The score: America: Infinity
Chuck Dick
Explain your last sentence. Particularly, why wasn't Biden persuaded that it was "stupid" to shoot that balloon down? DIDN'T HE KNOW that Trump people favored do so, and THEREFORE it was stupid?
And with all Chuck's talk of aircraft altitude limitations, and AIMS relying on heat signatures , an F-22 shot the balloon down with one shot using an AIM 9X Sidewinder, a weapon introuced 22 years ago.
But Chuck poohpoohed that, too: "AIM 9 Sidewinders that don't strike the balloon?"--I'm assuming he thought they would not only miss, but endanger people on the ground when they crashed to earth..
SNORT.
Will someone call Spatula City to arrange a shipment to Chuck. His shorts need scraping out, Big Time.
Hey Inga at 7:56pm. You believe a “defense expert” or the actual secretary of Defense?
“Yesterday we heard from the Pentagon and they say that this has happened before, during the last administration when you were defense secretary during that time period,” Collins said. “Were you aware of this? How was it resolved? What can you tell us about that?”
“I read that,” said Esper, who served as defense secretary from July 2019 through Nov. 2020. “I was surprised. I don’t ever recall somebody coming into my office or reading anything that the Chinese had a surveillance balloon above the United States.”
I call BS on that stupid CNN “expert”!
Do you also recall the Challenger exploded over Texas and no one was hurt by debris from a much bigger object? These administration morons talk like we are bunch of idiots who don’t see through their garbage talking points.
Fatty fatuous Inga and Ridiculous Log Cabin Chuck don't know when to give up.
They seem to enjoy making fools of themselves.
I don't know how big it was but the balloon was easily visible for an hour from Cherry Grove in North Myrtle Beach. A Citation X or any number of Gulfstreams or Learjets have operational altitudes of 51,000 feet. Blow past that thing at Mach 0.9 then maybe not so much damage to payload.
Just me, Monday morning quarterbacking. Someone wanted that hardware in tiny pieces. Mission accomplished.
gadfly said...
... We spent lots of money to bring down a cheap balloon...
True. We should have just sent up Felix Baumgartner with a big pin.
Inga: “The balloon spotted this week over Montana was not the first time the U.S. has detected Chinese balloons over their territory—with previous incursions occurring during the Trump Administration,” Bloomberg reported.”
LOL
Already debunked, juat like your Russian bounty lies.
Inga and LLR Chuck back together again!
These lefties and their lies have been apart for far too long.
Paminwi: "Do you also recall the Challenger exploded over Texas..." Small point: That was Columbia.
paminwi: "I call BS on that stupid CNN “expert”!"
Careful now! LLR Chuck does not appreciate anyone casting aspersions on his beloved partisan democratical fake news media types.
In fact, based on observations, the only things that are more likely to drive Chuck into a spittleflecked rage are conservative women, especially if they are attractive, and conservative black republicans with solid military records.
What a field day Freud could have had with this Chuck dude. There must be some very dark stuff behind all that.
effinayright: "And with all Chuck's talk of aircraft altitude limitations, and AIMS relying on heat signatures , an F-22 shot the balloon down with one shot using an AIM 9X Sidewinder, a weapon introuced 22 years ago.
But Chuck poohpoohed that, too: "AIM 9 Sidewinders that don't strike the balloon?"--I'm assuming he thought they would not only miss, but endanger people on the ground when they crashed to earth."
The AIM 9 series has been around for 60 years. We could have taken out the Beijing Biden Balloon at any time, particularly over Montana with functionally zero risk.
But Xi owns the Biden clan, lock stock and barrel.
Heck, rumor around Montana last night was that Bruce Hayden perforated it
Xi: Biden, you need to get Project Veritas under control
Biden: I can’t. Musk owns Twitter. Pfizer is fucked just like we’re about to be. I even leaked that I had classified material and people are still focused on Pfizer.
Xi: I got an idea. Remember in Winnie the Pooh where Pooh used the balloon to pretend to be a “little black rain cloud?”
Biden: Not sure I’d talk about Pooh but…
Xi: So, uh, anyway, we have a new spy balloon and we’re going to fly it over your missile silos in Montana
Biden: what the hell, Xi?!
Xi: it’s not big deal. We stole the codes years ago. You’re good. No, this is for a distraction. We’ll get people focused on the ballon and then you HAVE to take care of Veritas.
Biden: that balloon looks like a giant ice cream cone
Xi (to advisors): two birds, one balloon.
Well well well. So now we are hearing reports that Beijing Biden's Balloon is just 6 miles off the coast of South Carolina but that it could "take days" for Navy salvage vessels to reach it.
Of course! Its a whole 6 miles off the coast! That's so far away, isnt it?
Gee, someone in the Whitehouse really, really, really doesn't want this thing picked up anytime soon, do they?
We also hear Navy and Coast Guard ships are "busy" (wink wink) setting up a perimeter in order to keep the ChiComs from salvaging the wreckage first.
Anyone else see the issue here?
Just go pick it up and you dont have to worry about anyone else, especially in our territorial waters.
But nope, perimeter first, costing days, and then, maybe, actually looking for it.
Nothing fishy going on here. Nope. Not at all.
This whole incident makes me think this country's leadership is brain dead. This was a weather balloon- nothing more, nothing less. I imagine dozens, if not hundreds, of them have gone rogue over the last century. If you were going to shoot it down, it should have been shot down over Alaska, Canada or even Montana, but again, I ask- why waste a missile on it at all?
The Chinese are laughing at us, and we deserve it.
If I were the Chinese, I would send one of these into the jet stream every week now just for the shits and giggles.
If you thought Trump Derangement Syndrome was bad, check out Drago and his Chuck Derangement Syndrome!
Not even close Mark. You Trump haters are as delusional as the president you installed.
rcocean says that the "center-right" is obsessed with this balloon, when there are all sorts of worse problems to focus on.
While it is certainly true that the balloon is not the biggest problem we have, it is clearly a very visible situation in which the Brandon Administration dithered and lied to the public, rather than acted promptly and appropriately to defend the country (which as I recall is Job One for the President), for reasons which remain...curious, if the best interests of the nation is what one is concerned about.
Which is true of the border and crime "policies" of the administration as well. Not to mention Covid, education, and energy.
They don't seem to care, and seem to be actively working to damage the country.
The balloon is just a very good example of this. Can't they do anything right? Do they want to?
"Bob Boyd said...
There was a little slip of paper inside that said, "Sometimes the object of the journey is not the end, but the journey itself."
Funny.
wendybar said...
Not even close Mark. You Trump haters are as delusional as the president you installed.
First, I accept your premise. "Trump haters" are the reason that Biden won the 2020 election. "Trump haters" even had success in beating Trump-like candidates in 2022; in elections all over the country where Trump wasn't even a candidate except by representation.
We saw a Blue Wave election in 2018; the Trump loss in 2020; and now the Trump-y defeats of 2022. The House went Republican in 2022; that is true, thanks largely to some fantastically gerrymandered districts in Ohio, Florida and Texas. But barely. And now, with two years ahead of some crazed culture war votes coming up, many of those slim majority seats that Republicans won in swing districts may be gone as well.
And you think this is "delusional"? (Others use the word "derangement.)
Lefty Mark and Chuck- leftists sticking together!
Drago said...
...
...
In fact, based on observations, the only things that are more likely to drive Chuck into a spittleflecked rage are conservative women, especially if they are attractive, and conservative black republicans with solid military records.
Try me. Try me on "Liz Cheney." Or; Mona Charen. Sarah Longwell. Amanda Carpenter. Kimberly Ross. I called Betsy DeVos -- Trump's (virtual) 2-term Secretary of Education -- "probably his most successful Cabinet member." I may have some disagreements here or there some or all of these ladies. But "conservatism" is something I praise in all of them. I generally adore all of the aforementioned.
I save my rage for the fake-conservatives. The populist maniacs like MTG, Lauren Boebert, Marsha Blackburn, Elise Stefanik and Ginni Thomas. The really stupid, incompetent, Trump-lovers.
Drago said...
Inga: “The balloon spotted this week over Montana was not the first time the U.S. has detected Chinese balloons over their territory—with previous incursions occurring during the Trump Administration,” Bloomberg reported.”
LOL
Already debunked, juat [sic] like your Russian bounty lies.
To be clear about this; it was the U.S. Department of Defense's own news website that put this out. They were quoting an unnamed official. I will provide the full link below:
"The balloon did not pose a military or physical threat. Still its intrusion into American airspace over several days was an unacceptable violation of U.S. sovereignty. The official said Chinese balloons briefly transited the continental United States at least three times during the prior administration."
https://www.defense.gov/News/News-Stories/Article/Article/3288543/f-22-safely-shoots-down-chinese-spy-balloon-off-south-carolina-coast/
I'm not aware of anyone "debunking" that reporting. I am aware that some high-profile Trump administration figures have been asked about it. People like Mike Pompeo, in the middle of a book tour where he can't easily avoid such questions, has said that he "does not recall... being personally aware" of balloon incursions.
And what fun it is! To debate "balloon incursions." Instead of figuring out how to provide affordable health care, or solve the problem of too-few oil refineries, or how to cut a couple of trillion dollars out of next year's budget.
Could they have sent up a helicopter to snag it and bring it down? We have helicopters that can transport tanks. How heavy was the balloon?
Dumb Lefty Mark: "If you thought Trump Derangement Syndrome was bad, check out Drago and his Chuck Derangement Syndrome!"
Dumb Lefty Mark and his co-Dumb Lefty pal LLR Chuck are very very upset that everyone recalls LLR Chuck explicitly admitting that the only reasons he posts at Altouse are to:
1) Smear and lie about Trump and his voters
2) Drive a wedge between Althouse and her readers
Tsk tsk tsk
Just because the Althouse idiot lefties like Mark, LLR Chuck, Inga, gadfly et al think that history begins anew every 15 minutes doesnt mean anyone else has to play along.
LLR Chucks historical performance in attacking black conservaties in the most racist of ways ("Dept of Black People" as the only Cabinet position Ben Carson could run as just 1 example) and viciously attacking attractive republican women is beyond debate.
I get that as a fellow idiot lefty Dumb Lefty Mark probably feels compelled to come to the defense of his teammate, but it wont change the facts.
LLR Chuck: "I'm not aware of anyone "debunking" that reporting."
LOL
Same old LLR Chuck with the same old schtick.
LLR Chuck: "They were quoting an unnamed official."
Yes, of course they were!
The pattern never changes. You democraticals have 1 playbook with a single page.
Over and over again.
"The spy balloon was so humiliating for Biden that his media lapdogs had to whip up a vague & poorly sourced piece to try and say the same thing happened under Trump."
As always.
I will congratulate the lefties for sometimes getting named people on the record for a claim.
The 51 democratical deep staters when they lied about Hunter's laptop being russian disinformation.
Adam Schiff spending 3+ full years claiming he had seen explicit and conclusive proof of Trump/russia collusion.
The same patterns every time. Without fail.
I can imagine that some readers might wonder about a comment like this:
...LLR Chucks historical performance in attacking black conservaties in the most racist of ways ("Dept of Black People" as the only Cabinet position Ben Carson could run as just 1 example) and viciously attacking attractive republican women is beyond debate...<
But other, more devoted readers of this blog will remember this:
Althouse blog February 12, 2019
But hey, isn't this how comments pages get cluttered, and boring, and further away from Althouse's chosen topics? Relentless, content-free personal attacks by Drago and (the few) commenters like Drago?
"Top military officials had advised against shooting down the balloon while over the continental US because of the risk the debris could pose to civilians and property on the ground...."
I wonder what the real reason is. The chances that anyone in Joe Biden’s DoD above the rank of Sergeant Major gives a rat’s ass about potential civilian losses in lives or property in flyover country is zero to as many digits as you care to calculate.
I would to thank LLR Chuck for reminding us all that after Chuck's racist attack against Ben Carson, when properly called out on it by multiple commenters here, LLR Chuck then attempted to blame Trump for LLR Chuck's racist thoughts regarding Ben Carson!
That type of projection by LLR Chuck is quite typical of the leftists, like Chuck, that post at Althouse blog.
Again, thank you Chuck for completing and recreating one of the great LLR Chuck self-owns of all time!
Just for fun, perhaps we should also revisit the hilarious Great Pecan Pie Incident wherein LLR Chuck went Full Rage-aholic in attempting to "prove, Captain Queeg style, that (now Governor) Sarah Sanders could not possibly have baked Pecan Pies that were shared with the press corps!
You thought Queeg with the strawberries was untoppable? Well, jyst go back and review Chuck's insane sleuthing of online pecan pictures he used to make his "case"!
Good times, good times.
So, for those keeping track, SecDef Esper, NatSec John Bolton, CIA Dir & SecState Pompeo and ODNI Ratcliffe all on record denying any ChiCom balloon flights over US during the Trump admin.
Had there actually been ChiCom overflights of the US during Trump's admin, it would have leaked long ago with plenty of details.
But there wasnt, so its "unnamed sources" with zero details time again for Team Dem.
Even worse, Team Biden is now floating an assertion that Biden "ordered" the balloon to be shot down 4 days ago...over land...only to be "iverruled" by General Milley Vanilli!
LOL
Talk about not being able to get your stories straight! No wonder Klain adiosed the admin last week. No one wants to be there when it all comes crashing down to make way for Michelle Obama's coronation.
@Gerda Sprinchorn
The balloon was reported to be at 60,000 feet altitude. The altitude record for a helicopter is about 42,000. Most can't fly that high.
@Gerda Sprinchorn
The balloon was reported to be at 60,000 feet altitude. The altitude record for a helicopter is about 42,000. Most can't fly that high.
@Gerda Sprinchorn
The balloon was reported to be at 60,000 feet altitude. The altitude record for a helicopter is about 42,000. Most can't fly that high.
Mollie Hemingway summarizes the current (though ever changing) democratical talking points very succinctly:
"So if these anonymous reports are legit, the woke military generals' version of events is that they have 100% allowed Red China spy balloons to traverse the US for years, not even bothering to inform political leadership, and only shot down this one because the public noticed? OK"
And it just keeps getting worse for our pathetic LLR Chuck smear (aka lies) merchants: it now appears that the lying "unnamed source" is not a Biden Admin nor Dept of Defense dude but instead someone from the....(wait for it....wait for it)...corrupted "intelligence" community!
LOL
Perfect. Just perfect.
And it was very clever of them to place the lie with a Dept of Defense "reporter"/stenographer in order to give the lie a bit more "credibility" before the lie-filled talking point "bubble" burst. (See what I did there?)
Gerda, something as large and unwieldy as a high altitude balloon would be impossible to snag with a helicopter (or anything else) . . . impossible to the point of suicidal, even if a chopper could get to it.
I guess I'm the only one who recalls the Balloon Buster, Frank Luke.
Ward Carroll, ex Tomcat pilot who keeps up with this stuff, has a very authoritative Youtube rundown on the balloon caper.
I had previously written that shooting down the balloon would be very difficult. Wrong. The Aim-9x is broad spectrum now, not just IR, and it is helmet cued, so the shot was easy. Also, I assumed the Raptor would be limited to 50,000 feet because that is the limit without a pressure suit. (I flew the F-111, which could easily get to 60,000 feet. The airplanes had a pressure suit connection, but none of the bases had any pressure suits, so 50k was the limit.) So either the AF has a few in stock, or the U2 suits will work in a Raptor, or the AF decided the cockpit wasn’t going to suffer a pressure failure in the short time above 50k.
Not shooting it down over land makes sense. We knew where the thing was, so it would be easy to not do anything intel worthy when it was in the area. In 1989, a pilotless Mig-23 out of Poland crossed into NATO airspace. A pair of F-15C’s intercepted it as it crossed the IGB. NATO decided not to shoot it down, because of the potential liability. After running out of fuel, it crashed into a Belgian farmhouse, killing one.
https://youtu.be/k2xz21HvLs8
Drago, and Chuck: you both are why the rest of us can’t have nice things.
Hey Skipper: "Drago, and Chuck: you both are why the rest of us can’t have nice things."
You are responsible for your own happiness.
@Drago: “You are responsible for your own happiness.”
Point completely missed.
You and Chuck, but mostly you, are why there is comment moderation, and, consequently such lengthy latency as to nearly eliminate the possibility of a blog conversation.
Both of you are pollutants, for which *you* are responsible. Please stop. You are ruining it for everyone else.
It looks like -- rough count -- of the 116 comments on this page so far, 20 of them are by Drago. I expect that number to grow quickly after this.
My number -- and it's an uncharacteristically large one on my part for this particular comments page -- was 6 prior to this one doing a post-count.
Hey Skipper said...
I know. But Drago et al serve a useful purpose. Especially where Chuck is concerned. Chuck is a liar with an avowed purpose to ruin or shut down Ms. Althouse's blog. So having someone around to call out people on their bullshit is necessary.
Unless I'm in the mood for a laugh I just skip by the usual suspects and get on with the topic.
Hey Skipper: "Both of you are pollutants, for which *you* are responsible. Please stop. You are ruining it for everyone else."
I dont believe that is correct. And *you* clearly dont speak for "everyone".
Why is it that you believe you do?
Yes, there is that. But the resulting comment moderation really cripples discussion.
I say again that I have never, ever, not once not ever posted a comment suggesting that I wished to shut down or impair Althouse’s blog.
I suggest that you search that issue. You won’t find anything, and it might keep you out of trouble in the meantime.
What I have criticized, is Althouse’s curious tolerance for shallow, contentless, insulting personal attacks. By or against anyone, but particularly involving me. Althouse has rightly stated that she wished - demanded, even - that such “clutter” (her accurate and useful term) stop and not be repeated.
But just look at typical comments pages. There’s usually a single comment by me, directly addressing Althouse’s blog post. If I address anyone individually, it would only be Althouse herself as the blog post author.
Then what typically follows are personal attacks aimed at me. I wouldn’t mind it, and I expect that neither would Althouse, if it were a spirited argument of content related to her post. But we know that isn’t what often happens. Instead, it’s a very small handful of regular (too regular) commenters attacking me and weirdly citing made-up old quotes or other strange collateral attacks on me.
I wouldn’t blame Althouse for being aggravated by the latter. I do not know why it is my fault, what my detractors post. Althouse has in the past laid down commenting rules. I agree with those rules. I even understand that enforcing such rules in moderation is unrewarding. But it is her blog, and her rules, and I would think she’d want to enforce them for her blog’s benefit.
LLR Chuck: "I say again that I have never, ever, not once not ever posted a comment suggesting that I wished to shut down or impair Althouse’s blog."
The Dlintonian/Democratical backtracking continues.
LLR Chuck very explicitly stated he was only posting at Althouse blog to:
1) Smear and lie about Trump
2) Drive a wedge between Althouse and her readers
It appears our faux-Con LLR Chuck really does believe he can sweep his explicit history under the rug and "move on" as if that history never existed.
Sorry Chuckie. Just because you are a democratical tool (and not in a good way) doesn't mean anyone else has to play along.
Hey Skipper: "Yes, there is that. But the resulting comment moderation really cripples discussion."
I agree its not an optimum situation when a known bomb thrower, LLR Chuck, who was banned from the blog, returns to toss more bombs onto the site.
When that happens, the "bomb squad", so to speak, is bound to show up.
Such is life.
BTW Hey Skipper, I'm betting you have some "fun" and interesting F-111 tales to tell. Would love to hear them some time.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A-hrrMlksNA
You might want to pre-dose Ibuprofen.
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