"... according to interviews with dozens of people in the community....
'Police out here riding around like hound dogs,' said Lareta Johnson Ray, whose family members wound up in a violent encounter with the unit’s officers after running from them last summer. The Scorpion unit was 'terrorizing this city,' Ms. Ray said, and Mr. Nichols’s death was 'not the first time that they be beating on people — it was the first time that they messed up.'... In encounter after encounter, Memphis residents said, the Scorpions had a similar playbook: Officers would spot some minor infraction, jump out and begin asking questions and barking commands. Some said the officers offered no explanation about what they had done wrong, leading to confusion and sometimes disobedience. Some of those interviewed said they had tried to run away, in part, out of pure fear."
"Many of the Scorpion officers remain on the force, and it is unclear how many operated with the aggressive tactics that arrestees detailed in interviews.
Michalyn Easter-Thomas, a member of the City Council, said she did not hear about the volatile encounters people had with the Scorpion unit until after Mr. Nichols’s death.
'I just wish we would have known sooner,' she said."
Wish?! Isn't it your job to know? Didn't you know?
This is a long article, and I recommend it, but I was motivated to search the page for the word "Democrat." It does not appear. Even when the mayor is named, we are not told his party. There should be political responsibility. The article makes that clear, but it declines to make Democrats uncomfortable. Immoral priorities.
Posts
90 comments:
whose family members wound up in a violent encounter with the unit’s officers after running from them last summer.
Serious Questions:
WHAT is with certain elements of our society.. RUNNING from cops?
Let me guess; They're afraid.. Afraid of going to jail for the drugs and gun in their pockets?
WHAT is with certain elements of our society.. Having violent encounters (read: resisting arrest)?
Here's a Protip, Don't Run.. Don't Resist.. Of course, all this ASSUMES you're NOT carrying
Serious Follow up question:
WHO was the last person MURDERED by cops, that WASN'T resisting arrest? Must have been SOMEONE?
@gilbar Your comments are offensively ignorant. The police are not a rival gang. They are obligated to do their work professionally
motivated to search the page for the word "Democrat."
Since the end of reconstruction.. Have there BEEN any politicians in Memphis that Weren't Dems?
Wikipedia doesn't even BOTHER listing party https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_mayors_of_Memphis,_Tennessee
Turns out, i was WRONG. Even the Mayor, DURING reconstruction
John W. Leftwich, was a democrat.. They're ALL democrats
"but it declines to make Democrats uncomfortable."
For the MSM, a day ending Y.
Is there anybody in the USA who did not assume the entire government of Memphis is Democrat?
I'M offensive?
I'm NOT the one saying that Police are 'murdering' people.. The DA's are saying that.
I'm Asking a question.. IF a person doesn't run; and doesn't resist.. Would they STILL be killed?
We're Not all so lucky, as to be elderly white women, Some of us have to deal with the reality of police.
Has a policeman ever drawn a gun on You? And ordered YOU to the ground.. It's HAPPENED to ME;
And i complied. I Didn't run, i didn't resist.. I Complied; Which one reason Why i'm still here today
The journalist didn't mention the word "Democrat" because it would just give Republicans a chance to "pounce" and we can't have that, can we?
WHO was the last person MURDERED by cops, that WASN'T resisting arrest? Must have been SOMEONE?
Ashli Babbit
Daniel Shaver
Of course the City Council knew. They all know, because it's how the game is played. I have no doubt that the council members are corrupt, and take kickbacks and rely on support from local gangs to fill their coffers, while ordering the police to crack down harder on everyone else in order to keep the streets from becoming uncontrollable.
It's the same way that leftwing feminists will rage against men checking out a woman at the gym, or the inability of women to walk around topless, while at the same time excusing outright rape by powerful progressive politicians, and pushing the right of men to declare themselves as women and walk into the pool shower next to a 14-year-old girl.
Justine Damond (aka"Who?").
There is no accountability for the Democrats who have rendered American cities unlivable. My hometown of St Louis declined in population from 850,000 in 1950 to 300,000 in 2020. The murder rate exceeds that of Mogadishu. The northern parts of the city are post-apocalyptic in appearance. Were it not for baseball, the city would be devoid of soul. The last Republican mayor, Aloys P. Kaufman, left office on April 19, 1949. Are we to believe that citizens of St. Louis yearned for the decline? We don't know who they vote for, but we know how their votes are counted. No accountability.
The media are hacks who protect their party. Say so everyday.
It's typical, when they don't blame Republicans or white people, that it is a Democrat or a black person. ALWAYS. Count on it.
The Democratic Party stance is essentially the same as the Republican Party stance on police funding and methods. Agree on the need for accountability and responsibility, but don't see it coming soon.
Maybe giving the task force a gang name like the Scorpions wasn't such a good idea. Regardless of what they are called, these special enforcement groups often seem to get cocky and overly aggressive. It's not a gang man, it's a club! And you can be quite sure that their aggressive tactics were well known and quietly applauded.
In Denver - the cops are not allowed to chase. The democrats have made most crime legal. Arrests don't mean anything. Bail is gone. Now the Dems are planning on removing ALL cops from traffic duty. All traffic violations, speeding.. road rage etc.. legal! It's mad max, man. ... all while their precious dutiful hack-D press whine about the increase in traffic deaths. (without making any connection. After all - it might make democrats look bad)
There's something a lot deeper here. A good deal of traditional "maintaining order" by the police has been intimidation, "Keep your nose clean or we'll f you up, and you know we can do it", with periodic semi-random instances of "f*ing you up" to make the threat credible. It didn't have to be inter-racial. It could be Irish cops keeping Irish "tough guys" from getting out of line (and maybe hurting the cops' friends and family).
Today, we find that unacceptable. We want "community policing", "the officer is your friend." That works in low crime areas. We are conducting an experiment to see if it can work in high crime areas.
You should know by now that when a politician's party affiliation isn't mentioned in a negative article, especially if they've been misbehavin', that politician is ALWAYS a Democrat. If it was a Republican, that fact would be IN THE HEADLINE and mentioned as many times as possible in the article itself. This has been going on for years and years.
"IF a person doesn't run; and doesn't resist.. Would they STILL be killed?"
Nichols was beaten and pepper sprayed for two full minutes without being under arrest and for no arrestable cause. He was attempting to comply with dozens of contradictory orders. He ran for his life.
Of course they were Democrats.
Of course the Councilwoman knew.
Of course families whose members ran from cops say cops were bad.
The Tyre Nichols murder looks like a contempt of cop case. Contempt of cop cases are usually triggered by minor offences, a sign of disrespect which is perceived as a challenge to the police officer's authority and then trouble. Seasoned criminals interact with the police so often they know how to behave. But normal people like Tyre Nichols can provoke the police without realizing it. Here's a good example --
https://www.cnn.com/2018/08/16/us/georgia-police-taser-woman-dandelions-knife/index.html
But that is not the case here. Mr. Nichols was a romantic rival of one of the murderers. The Nichols murder was intensely personal. This is the story the media should have been telling. Instead it's more bullsh*t about White Supremacy. Seriously, what is wrong with these journalists?
The tell-tale hallmarks of a Democrat mayor a la New Orleans when Katrina came forcing catastrophic anthropogenic climate change.
Democrat "heroes" abort with prejudice.
Ashli Babbit
An unarmed female, caught in a prone position, escaping a riot forced by Capitol Police, and probable Whitmer/Pelosi-event. A senior Democrat "hero" aborted her with prejudice.
A black live mattered. A Fentanyl-induced progressive condition prompts the premature exit from the police cruiser. An officer restrains the drug addled man. A mob assembled prevents access by authorized medical personnel. A nationwide insurrection, neighborhood invasions a la KKK follow. Some, Select [Black] Lives Matter
Jason Whitlock had a very interesting article on the Nichols murder and one of the things he pointed out was the video looked like a gang hit. The cops were the rival gang. That remark was eye opening for me and also the fact that all 5 officers were between the ages of 24 and 32. Legal police gang.
Maybe giving the task force a gang name like the Scorpions wasn't such a good idea
Clinicians... guards ensuring the right of legal access to civil services. If you're deemed a "burden", you will be aborted, then your carbon sequestered. Don't be a "burden" h/t Obama... to mama.
"IF a person doesn't run; and doesn't resist.. Would they STILL be killed?"
Tamir Rice, a 12 year old boy playing with a toy gun, did not run and was not resisting. Police killed him within 3 seconds of arrival.
Nichols was not resisting when he was beaten and pepper sprayed for two minutes, before he ran for his life.
Daniel12,
Don’t bother. The actual facts are of no interest to gilbar.
No mention of party affiliation for Democrats looking bad? I have seen that before.
Thanks for asking.
Black men, less than 10% of the population, are, according to most statistical compilations, responsible for a majority of the violent crime in the country.
It is important to the advancement of Cultural Marxism that this degradation of the nation continue. Nichol's tragic and apparently unwarranted death is part of the picture as is the demise of the Scorpions.
Tyre Nichols was 29. The five police officers who participated in beating him to death range in age from 24 to 32. The behavior we witnessed from the officers resembles what happens when a group of Vice Lords catch a Gangster Disciple on their turf. The Disciple will flee. The Vice Lords will chase. Violence ensues.
"Here's a Protip, Don't Run.. Don't Resist.. Of course, all this ASSUMES you're NOT carrying"
You seem determined to ignore that when violent police gangs are out searching for pretexts to assault and arrest hapless individuals, the victim cannot be assumed to be safe from assault simply by standing still and not resisting.
All the other commenters here want to obfuscate or deny the real problem by shouting "DEMOCRATS!", as if that were the problem.
@Althouse, please tell me you didn’t just now notice this business of the newsmedia covering for Democrat politicians! Because if you only just noticed this now then you’re roughly a half century late to the party. In 1980 the Boston Globe could characterize a speech by Jimmy Carter as “Mush From the Wimp,” but that was then and this is now.
And I will add that Mr. Wibble (8:35 am) does an excellent job of characterizing your sister feminists, even though I recognize that for you, personally, giving a pass to Democrat sexual predators is a bridge too far that you won’t cross. But you do hang with bad company.
Reminds me of the Strike Team on 'The Shield,' the main difference being 'Shield' cops were plain-clothes detectives...
"A good deal of traditional 'maintaining order' by the police has been intimidation, "Keep your nose clean or we'll f you up, and you know we can do it", with periodic semi-random instances of 'f*ing you up' to make the threat credible.
"Today, we find that unacceptable."
Shouldn't we? Shouldn't we always find such behavior not just unacceptable, but abhorrent--grotesquely beyond any decent bounds of acceptable behavior?
Go and read some of the histories of the Texas Rangers. When you have a completely lawless area ( like Memphis ) you need very stern people to bring it law. The populace was scared to death of the rangers, but they were more scared of getting raped and eviscerated by the Comanche. Playing by Marquis of Queensberry rules does NOT cut it.
I wonder if the reporting in NYT is fair. The SCORPIAN concept has worked before. Is the reporter just picking up grievances after the fact from disgruntled citizens? This sounds like a program in need of an upgrade. Here is a hint based on our experience in Chicago: don't enter a consent degree with the DOJ. Paperwork mushrooms, and crime goes up.
Preventive policing ("What are you doing here? Where are you going? You don't belong here.") is on the ropes. We are going to be left with purely reactive, after-the-fact policing in the cities. We aren't going to like the outcomes.
Next up: vigilantes.
"The article makes that clear, but it declines to make Democrats uncomfortable."
Sounds like the Scorpions made some Democrats uncomfortable.
Cripps v Bloods.
This is the comeback of the Democrat term: "Super Predator."
"The police are not a rival gang."
Is that what they taught you in Law School? Has it never occurred to you that the government's "monopoly of force" is contingent? The police are, precisely, a gang, prepared to use force against all comers. If they have rivals, then they are a rival gang. Take a look at what is going on in Mexico, and Arizona, and then tell us who is "ignorant".
Cook says the left's principle:
All the other commenters here want to obfuscate or deny the real problem by shouting "DEMOCRATS!", as if that were the problem.
That is the problem. There was a time when even Chicago was peaceful and Democrats ran it. It was corrupt but women could walk down the street in safety. Not now. The city is run by black gangs and Democrats allow it.
Memphis is majority Black and has politics to match, but all the prosperous suburbs vote R most of the time; the County Mayor has been R and might be again, but the city will never go back. (It ain't called Memphrica for no good reason.)
Mayor Henry Loeb, a Democrat and Kennedy Delegate at the '60 Convention, and the villain of '68, has been recast as a Republican in popular perception.
Someone mentioned a possible romantic rivalry between Nichols and a cop--I don't have any idea or insight about that. I do know that Chief Davis is scrambling to obscure the fact that the SCORPION unit was her brainchild--fight gangs with a Supergang complete with clever acronym.
During Cold War I there was a theory that the US and USSR would converge in their attitudes and practices, and to a large degree that turned out to be true. One paranoid police state empire has collapsed, but not before the one still standing has become equally paranoid and controlling; now the convergence is between what used to be known as the 1st World and the 3rd.
All the signs are there, from urban decay and the devolution of policing into open thuggery to the dissolving of the Southern border in the face of another Great Migration.
All you tuff guys should come to Memphis. I hear there are openings on the police force.
Our country should have Peace Officers, not law enforcement officers.
The vast majority of our police force should be unarmed and rely on compliance to verbal requests.
People who refuse to comply with verbal requests should be removed from our society. The key to having a peaceful civil society is removing/suppressing the elements that are incompatible with a peaceful civil society.
If we want Police/Citizen interactions to be peaceful then there can be no tolerance for people who refuse to comply with verbal requests. Concurrently the requests made by police must be seen as reasonable by the citizenry.
I didn't read the article. I wish to maintain my morning serenity. The article besides ignoring that the local politicians were Democrats also probably tactfully ignored that many of them were Black. The police chief was a Black woman. She was in charge of recruiting and training her police force. The Democrat politicians, many of them Black, were in charge of her hiring and oversight. The police officers themselves were Black. I understand that the Black police chief left her previous job in dubious circumstances and that some of the officers involved were hired under waivers. This is a complete shit show and white supremacy is not the most likely cause of it....Black or white, it's easier to negotiate with a brutal cop than it is with a carjacker.
Birches said...
Jason Whitlock had a very interesting article on the Nichols murder and one of the things he pointed out was the video looked like a gang hit. The cops were the rival gang. That remark was eye opening for me and also the fact that all 5 officers were between the ages of 24 and 32. Legal police gang.
People who are drawn to law enforcement generally have a similar psychological profile to criminals.
This has been a reliable observation since the foundation of society and the generation of laws.
My heat goes out to Chris Rock. Now that I've had time to reflect on it, I can see how Will Smith was corrupted and brutalized by all those patriarchal roles he played in the movies. He became without realizing it an agent of the white patriarchy and Chris Rock was his victim. White people should apologize for the indignity they visiting upon Chris Rock.
Encourage criminals and society goes to shit, fast. Of course it's Democrat theology but a ton of GOPe and Libertarians suck down the same KoolAid.
Michalyn Easter-Thomas, a member of the City Council, said she did not hear about the volatile encounters people had with the Scorpion unit until after Mr. Nichols’s death. 'I just wish we would have known sooner,' she said."
Wish?! Isn't it your job to know? Didn't you know?
I’m sure there were complaints, but they were blown off because the complainants were low-income black people. Consequently the complaints were blown off because either (1) the prejudices of the financially better-off black politicians were along the lines of “poor blacks are inherently criminals and will complain about any stepped up police work,” or (2) “let ‘em complain — they’re going to vote Democrat anyway so all I have to do is win the primary.” And I recognize that a mix of both attitudes were likely in play.
Obligatory Chris Rock video 'How not to get your ass kicked by the police.'
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uj0mtxXEGE8
I can't read the article since it is behind the paywall, but does Republican governor Bill Lee make an appearance in it?
If people want citizen-police interactions to look like the ones from Mayberry, it requires buy-in from both sides. I suspect it has to start with the comportment of police, and it should since Police forces exist for the benefit of the citizens, but it must soon follow with citizens being polite and non-aggressive with police.
@ Mike Petrik - Perhaps, but the facts are of interest to a lot of us. A good conversation has agreement and disagreement, and corrections if someone gets facts wrong.
Tamir Rice was carrying one of AirSoft's replica line. Experts can't tell the diff from the real thing at a range of six feet. That's the point. Federal law requires an orange accessory--at the muzzle, usually--to mark the replica.
Some moron had taken that off and sent the poor kid off to wave it around at passersby.
The cops were called--for sure--and they couldn't tell the difference either, and Rice wouldn't drop it.
It was of the iconic 1911 Colt .45 ACP automatic. Used for more than half a century by US military. Known particularly for its hitting power.
@ Robert Cook - "Shouldn't we? Shouldn't we always find such behavior not just unacceptable, but abhorrent--grotesquely beyond any decent bounds of acceptable behavior?"
Well, that's the question. What if it's the only way to keep crime down to an acceptable level? Do we say, "Tough for you victims of crime. It's more important that we maintain high standards. Better a hundred people are murdered by criminals than one person is murdered by cops."?
Of course, the real world is not that simple. I would love a world where the cops are always polite and never hurt anyone. I would also love a world where there is no crime. I know I will never get the latter. We are running an experiment to see how close we can get to the former.
How much of a trade-off is there? What can be done to make the trade-off better?
And to be clear, I don't mean that the powers that be have an explicit trade-off. They don't tell the police, "You can have one murder every year, as long as the crime rate stays below X." Rather, it is expected that some times cops will over-react and the PTB will accept it as a "cost of doing business".
"If we want Police/Citizen interactions to be peaceful then there can be no tolerance for people who refuse to comply with verbal requests. Concurrently the requests made by police must be seen as reasonable by the citizenry."
Achilles, I'm struggling with this. First, I agree on not arming the vast majority of cops, though the incredible number of guns owned in this country (as opposed to, say, UK, make that a pretty tough case to make.
Second, you're saying here that if an agent of the government tells you what to do, you must do it or "be removed". I don't think that's right, or consistent with American democracy.
Third, you say that requests must be seen as reasonable. But much research -- plus a lot of experience -- suggests that when given power, people often don't behave reasonably. In fact, I might even say that this is at the root of conservative distrust of government.
Contempt of cop is a thing because cops cannot abide being disregarded, even if people are fully within their rights to do so.
I don't think the answer to this is a much more punitive state.
I raised my family in a white minority neighborhood in Chicago. Even though my kids are mostly white I also had to have "the talk" with them about cops and resisting arrest. It's not just for KOCs, Kids Of Color.
In the early hours of July 24, 1996, I brandished a military-style weapon at some neighborhood youths who were harassing my wife and kids after returning from the fireworks. Long story short, some new neighbor, who did not know who I was, called 50. The Tac Squad reached me as I was walking up my front steps and when they put a 9 to my forehead, my kids started screaming "Don't kill Daddy!"
Going to the ground I turned to them and said, "They won't kill daddy because he's not resisting arrest." After a bench trial on the felony I was found not guilty.
Anyway, I don't have to worry about my kids doing stupid stuff like resisting. There was a lot of stupid going around in Memphis that night.
Memphis is 68% black so it is a tad disingenuous for the author to point out that they are disproportionately “targeted.” The mayor is black, the majority of the city council is black, the majority of the police force is black. Until this incident the scorpion unit was apparently successful in curbing some violent crime. Now I expect the force will be taught psychology and social justice. There is no taming or educating the black underclass. Losing battle. But a Democrat city to its dying core.
Watch the tape. All the cops were fat and breathless when they finally caught him after he bolted (he should not have bolted. Do not run from the police. Ever). They were mightily pissed and mightily winded. They took it out on him.
according to interviews with dozens of people in the community
No one with an ounce of self-preservation would admit now to feeling safer. It would have been interesting if they had done a survey of older people, women, families with young children and small business owners last November when the Scorpions had been active for a year.
One person interviewed for the article talked about a line of Dodge Chargers pulling up. He said they didn't announce and he didn't know who they were, so he ran. Police shouldn't be coming in like thugs, but if (non-police) thugs were a possibility then, they're still a possibility without the Scorpions. Have there been any suggestions of what to do instead?
This is yet another case where the black community got just what it asked for, and then doesn't like the outcome. The complaints were that Memphis streets were unsafe; the authorities, who were also black, gave them the SCORPION teams to address those problems. Tyre Nichols came into their sight picture, they dealt with him as they were asked to. If Tyre Nichols had been an actual criminal, a car-jacker? There would have been no criticisms leveled; it all would have been A-OK, 'cos "criminal".
This is the same syndrome that got us the War on (some) Drugs; black America went to the daddy figure and said "Fix this". As opposed to, say, stopping the criminal activities or drug use among their own young men.
The thing that goes wrong with this is that they never, as a group, look in the mirror and recognize that the problem is inside the house, with them. If they were honest about it all, instead of going to Massa, of whatever color, and pleading for something to be done...? They'd fix the problem themselves. You don't want all your young men condemned to prison? How about you teach them not to be criminals? You want your young women to raise kids in intact and productive families? How about you stop glamorizing all the crap that leads to single motherhood?
You want better lives for your kids? How about not teaching them to play the jackpot game that is pro sports, which doesn't lead the vast majority out of the ghetto; only hard work will do that, and the values that actually make people solid members of the middle classes. Things that are anathema to most blacks.
Nope; ain't none of that on the table. That would be "acting white". Which is why we're where we are, and most African or Afro-Caribbean immigrants do exponentially better than their black American counterparts ever will.
Black America is on its way towards being a permanent underclass that the new incoming brown majority won't kow-tow towards, and will actually likely wipe the f*ck out, the same way they did back at home in Mexico. The wake-up call is going on right now in Southern California, as formerly black neighborhoods undergo ethnic cleansing. Unfortunately, the victim-class "leadership" keeps on punching the snooze button on the alarm clock, and the result will be incredibly ugly.
for the word "Democrat." It does not appear.
========
it is like the traffic sign/law/rule for 'Right turn on Red'
gilbar said...
Serious Follow up question:
WHO was the last person MURDERED by cops, that WASN'T resisting arrest? Must have been SOMEONE?
to which Mr Wibble said...
Ashli Babbit
Daniel Shaver
=========
thank you Sir.
'asked and answered'
Roger Sweeny said...
There's something a lot deeper here. A good deal of traditional "maintaining order" by the police has been intimidation, "Keep your nose clean or we'll f you up, and you know we can do it", with periodic semi-random instances of "f*ing you up" to make the threat credible.
==
widen the scope from 'police' to /Democrat-GOPe and MSM/ and we have Theory of Everything USA
People who are drawn to law enforcement generally have a similar psychological profile to criminals.
========
I have experienced cop showing irritation when I was pulled over >> I turned on blinkers and stopped when reached area in sight of other people [in Charlotte NC]
it was also dark at the time.
it is not just compliance >> they require and expect immediate compliance.
is delayed compliance = obstruction or resisting
may be if that were clarified ala Miranda style ?
"... when violent police gangs are out searching for pretexts to assault and arrest hapless individuals..."
Gawd, I hate this type of inflammatory nonsense.
Even worse is the, "Cops have declared open season on young, black men."
Pure, unadulterated bullshit.
Cops, if they were as described by Cookie, would only need to work 15 minute shifts to find, stop and pummel a young, black, hapless individual". Then what Cookie? Go for another round of pummeling or head home from another successful night?
And the "open season"? The bodies would be stacked up like cord wood.
I'm (sadly) sure Cookie believes what he writes. But that hyperbole is sickening.
No the present mayor of Memphis, Jim Strickland, is W/white. The county mayor is B/black.
Sheriff a Black man. Fire Chief a w/white woman.
Some commenters here who shed tears for Nichols, said Zip about Ashli Babbitt being executed in cold blood by Lt Bryd on Jan 6th. And the same is true of the Center-right pundits and media. And some of the MSM and other the people on the Left celebrated her murder by the police.
So, my comment on the Nichols police brutality: Frankly, my dear, I don't give a damn.
A friend who worked n the state prison system said that the guards and inmates were basically the same people, with the inmates usually being a little smarter.
"But that hyperbole is sickening."
What hyperbole?
From Counterpunch.com:
"+ There have been at least 52 people killed by police in the US since the fatal beating of Tyre Nichols on January 7th.
"+ In 2021, there were 1055 people killed by police in the US. In the same year, 31 people were killed by police in all of Europe (Italy, France, Germany, Spain, Switzerland, Belgium, Portugal, Sweden, Finland, Malta, Netherlands, UK, Ireland, Poland, Denmark, and Norway) combined.
"+ Most of the people killed by police in 2022 were killed by officers responding to mental health calls, traffic violations, disturbances, other *non-violent* issues and situations where no crime was alleged. Only 1 in 3 killings began with an alleged violent crime.
"+ Joe Frasure, a 28-year-old black man, was shot four times and killed by police after cleaning out his late grandmother’s house near Cincinnati. Police say they mistook him for a burglary suspect."
Why would a burglary suspect--even if he had been a thief--be shot down?
This is called "normal" in the USA.
The Democratic Party stance is essentially the same as the Republican Party stance on police funding and methods.
Republicans are running around screaming 'Defund the police!!!!'? Learn something new everyday, I guess.
If you are the Government, "by any means necessary".
We are supposed to forget the IC and the FBI ran an off the books spying operation on a Presidential candidate, and transition team, and President?
We are ignoring the rights stripped from citizens during covid, The suspension of rent, $billions of corruption of aid?
Election corruption happening under our noses.
If the goal is deemed OK by the Dems, sacrifices have to happen.
"wound up in a violent encounter with the unit’s officers after running from them last summer"
As a conservative skeptical of state power, I am willing to be skeptical of police power. But how many violent encounters are there, exactly, in Memphis or around the country, in situations where people do exactly what they are told by police officers?
"Isn't it your job to know? Didn't you know?"
To know what exactly? That a unit specifically instituted to get aggressive about law breaking got aggressive?
Again, I am willing to be skeptical about lack of restraint in exercising state power. But if the actual "priority" is reducing crime in crime-ridden minority neighborhoods, why is that "immoral"?
From the point of view of truly squashing inner-city crime and black-on-black murder, the problem is that policing and other forms of social control are not nearly intrusive enough. But the lives of black men don't actually matter as much as we've been led to believe.
They need a good role model. Absent a father, a mother overwhelmed. Dr. Carson was, is a good role model. Orange-adjacent. Rejected.
Concurrently the requests made by police must be seen as reasonable by the citizenry.
I need a "hero," a Democrat "hero", take a knee, be... aborted.
"Republicans are running around screaming 'Defund the police!!!!'? Learn something new everyday, I guess."
Joe Biden, the head of the Democratic Party, has an official position of increasing funding for the police. Of course not every single Democrat thinks that. Put that's the Party position. Also look at Bloomberg, Eric Adams, even DiBlasio had to cater to the police, and plenty of mayors in other cities, whatever they ran on. Budgets have gone up. No slowdown of military equipment. Plenty of these gang units, by plenty of left and right chiefs and mayors. I mean, do I believe twitter or my own lying eyes?
"As a conservative skeptical of state power, I am willing to be skeptical of police power. But how many violent encounters are there, exactly, in Memphis or around the country, in situations where people do exactly what they are told by police officers?"
Dude just read the thread, gimme a break here.
"Some commenters here who shed tears for Nichols, said Zip about Ashli Babbitt being executed in cold blood by Lt Bryd on Jan 6th. And the same is true of the Center-right pundits and media. And some of the MSM and other the people on the Left celebrated her murder by the police.
So, my comment on the Nichols police brutality: Frankly, my dear, I don't give a damn."
Please help me understand the morality where others' actions are reason and justification for you to not care about this injustice. Other than an eye for an eye I guess. Even there, though, I just don't know what the sides are. Both Babbit and Nichols were killed by law enforcement.
Sebastian said:
"From the point of view of truly squashing inner-city crime and black-on-black murder, the problem is that policing and other forms of social control are not nearly intrusive enough. But the lives of black men don't actually matter as much as we've been led to believe."
There's a fallacy imbedded here, which needs to be addressed. "Social control", as a concept, does not work. You cannot impose from without that which does not exist within. If you're lacking in self-control, nobody will ever impose socialization on you from outside.
The entire concept of civilization only existing as something that comes from without, flowing forth from the institutions and organs of civilization? That concept is null; it does not work. You can't force someone to behave in a civilized manner; the minute you remove the controlling force, they go right back to their inherent nature.
Where you have to work is on ensuring that the values and mores of civilization are actually welling up from within the citizenry; if you have to impose order, you've failed.
It's really not all that magic, either: What you have to do is ensure that the consequences for not behaving in a civilized manner are draconian, swift, and permanent. For everyone. You don't want your cities turned into Lord of the Flies situations? Then, you have to cull the individuals who fall into that behavior pattern ruthlessly. Visibly, consistently, and fairly. The path we are on does not accomplish this, and we're going to see the end "state of nature" that leads to, very shortly. Our major cities are de-civilizing under the inimical influence of these pernicious ideas and ideals, and it's observably happening before our eyes.
The bulk of the violent crime there is committed by young black males.
Making them police officers doesn't seem like a good idea.
Once robocops become available, maybe there will be a solution.
Conservatives have never been "Skeptical of the police and Government Power". That is Libertarians.
The Right has always stood for law and order. And against crime. Including crime committed by police officers.
Conservatives have never been "Skeptical of the police and Government Power". That is Libertarians.
The Right has always stood for law and order. And against crime. Including crime committed by police officers.
Libertarians are objective allies of the Left, and always have been. Their "game" is to convince the rightwing to NOT to use Governmental power when they can, while the Left ALWAYS uses Government power to advance their cause.
Heads the Left wins, Tails the Right loses.
That what the Libertarians are, Principled losers.
Police are the blue line between the citizens and anarchy. Look at Portland, OR, to see a city commit suicide with roaming anarchists and un-housed drug addicts filling the public space. A few years back PPD disbanded its anti-gang unit because the wrong ethnic group was getting popped.
It's not rocket science. Sometimes the pee-wees need the good night-sticking dad wasn't around to do.
Joe Biden, the head of the Democratic Party, has an official position of increasing funding for the police.
@Daniel12, so just another one of Joe’s lies, right? Guy lies about everything.
"Sometimes the pee-wees need the good night-sticking dad wasn't around to do."
Milwaukee guy blesses us with his thoughts while on break from masturbating to the video of Nichols getting beaten to death.
Honest truth is that Tyre Nichols is dead because of a set of interlocking interdependent dysfunctions in the black community, policing, and society in general.
Blacks don't seem to be capable of grasping what their behavior looks like from the outside, or what it will inevitably result in. You constantly resist the authority of the police? Where's that going to get you? You belong to a demographic segment that commits most of the violent crime, including injuring and killing the police? What result do you think presenting as one of those threats is going to result in? You can be righteous all you like, but when you're easily identified by everyone around you, including those of your own ethnicity and appearance as a threat, that righteousness ain't going to do you a bit of good.
I don't like the things that happened to Tyre Nichols, but I'm also not blind to how much his own behavior and reaction to the police contributed to it all. Let's say he cooperated completely on that traffic stop; would all that followed have happened? You don't have to be confrontational and combative with every police officer you meet; try being a normal human being, and see where that gets you.
There's still something we're not seeing, which is precisely what led up to the initial stop, and how Nichols interacted with that first cop. At least, I haven't seen it. That would tell us a lot about how all of this got started. Maybe he was simon-pure, innocent as the driven snow, but I somehow suspect that there was something going on there to start all of this. Cops don't generally default to beating the crap out of you right off the bat; far easier to sit in the cruiser and drink their coffee. As well, ain't none of the fired cops look like they really relish foot chases or activity in general. Something set them off, triggering it all, and I'd like to know what it was.
The thing that makes the most sense to me is that this was personal, somehow, and Nichols was singled out for some damn reason. Maybe he was seeing that one cop's ex-wife...? Who knows. I don't see this as having resulted out of nothing.
"Conservatives have never been "Skeptical of the police and Government Power". That is Libertarians."
Thanks rcocean. I've been wondering how to square "Tyre Nichols did nothing wrong" with the reaction many have on this board that Black people as a whole are violent criminals, which justifies police beating this man who was not a violent criminal to death. Your point helps me understand where the narrative of personal responsibility ends for conservatives.
"I don't like the things that happened to Tyre Nichols, but I'm also not blind to how much his own behavior and reaction to the police contributed to it all."
How did Tyre Nichols behave and react such that it contributed to the police officers tasing him, pepper-spraying him, and beating him to death (for a traffic stop)? Can you quote his words or describe his attitude and actions that may have sparked the group police violence that killed him?
It's significant (to me anyway) that the pre-stop events, and what was in the car, have been pretty much dropped as topics of inquiry.
The cops are on bodycam afterward talking about reckless driving, and one complains that Nichols had his hand on his (the cop's) holstered pistol. A real memory or setting up a narrative?
Until simple things like that are known, speculation of all kinds flourishes.
@Robert Cook,
"How did Tyre Nichols behave and react such that it contributed to the police officers tasing him, pepper-spraying him, and beating him to death (for a traffic stop)? Can you quote his words or describe his attitude and actions that may have sparked the group police violence that killed him?"
Did you watch the videos? We're not shown what went on before they had to take him out of his car by force at the intersection, but from the moment of that first interaction, he is not complying with their instructions. Granted, those instructions are contradictory and unclear, but the demeanor he's displaying is sure as hell not the one I'd be showing. He's mouthing off to them, and doing everything he can to piss them off. Whether that was unconscious or intentional, I don't know. But, this was pretty much just the stupidest course of action he could have taken, just like a lot of young black males encountering the police chose.
I grew up in a highly charged household, and I swear to God, but my biological father was the dumbest man alive--Or, he subconsciously wanted to blow up whatever relationship he was in, because that stupid SOB would consistently say and do the exact wrong thing in every interaction with any of his nine wives. Yeah, you read that right--Nine marriages, all of which wound up ended by his partners. Because he was an asshole. I could literally sit there and observe what was going on, and be able to say to myself "There are three things this dummy could say... One will smooth things over, one would fix the issue, and the third will blow it right the hell up..." He always, without fail, picked number three.
I get that same feeling watching the Nichols tapes. You don't run from the cops; you don't make snide little remarks questioning their right to stop you, you don't run from them. That's like waving a bloody rabbit skin in front of a pack of dogs, and then throwing it for them to chase; you've engaged their worst instincts.
So, yeah... I decry what happened to Tyre Nichols, but good grief... If there was ever anyone who was complicit in his own murder? It was him. Middle-class white kid would have been all "Yes, sir... No, sir... Here, let me get out of the car..."
And, that would have gone a long way towards defusing the situation. A long damn way.
Part of the other thing you have to take into account? How have other traffic stops gone, for those cops? Ones involving other young black males who got confrontational and "started some sh*t"? It'll never come up in court, but the reality is that the environment those cops work in contributes to what happened. If you spend your days dealing with idiot gangbanger types that want to start a fight every time they encounter authority? What do you suppose happens when someone inadvertently triggers those reactions by presenting as another gangbanger?
There is a whole lot we're not being shown, here. What transpired before that point in the tapes where we're shown the cop coming up on Tyre Nichols's vehicle boxed in at the intersection? Is there dashcam video showing what happened, and if there is, why haven't we seen it? Those cops are already pissed-off at him before they even pull him out of his car; why? What happened?
A lot of this is down to the entire surrounding cultural matrix there in Memphis. I wouldn't live there for love nor money, and the cops have little to do with it.
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