November 11, 2022

"Republicans fared exceptionally well in some states, including Florida and New York. In others, like Michigan or Pennsylvania, Democrats excelled."

"How can we make sense of it? The results seem unusual because of two unusual issues: democracy and abortion. Unlike in the typical midterm election, these issues were driven by the actions of the party out of power. Indeed, the party out of power achieved the most important policy success of the last two years: the overturning of Roe v. Wade.... In states where democracy and abortion were less directly at issue, the typical midterm dynamics often took hold and Republicans excelled. A comparison between New York and Pennsylvania is illustrative. The states share a border — if you drive across the state line, things look about the same. Yet their election results look as if they’re from different universes...."

Writes Nate Cohn in "Why Some States Went in Different Directions in Midterms/Abortion rights and antidemocratic stances were more relevant or pressing in some places than others" (NYT).

"In Pennsylvania, Republicans nominated a candidate for governor, Doug Mastriano, who was central to efforts to overturn the states’s 2020 presidential election results. Democrats feared that a Mastriano victory could risk a constitutional crisis and a threat to democratic government. It might have threatened another long-held right as well; Mr. Mastriano is a strident opponent of abortion, and Republicans controlled the state Legislature. The two issues were less critical in New York. There was no danger that the Democratic Legislature would overturn abortion rights. No movement emerged in 2020 to overturn Mr. Biden’s victory in New York, and there is little indication that anyone feared [GOP candidate Lee] Zeldin might do so. As a result, Republicans focused the campaign on crime. And it paid off. New York and Pennsylvania were part of a pattern that played out across the country...."

119 comments:

Jefferson's Revenge said...

Once again the D’s showed they know how to get elected but they don’t know how to govern once elected

The Rs need to be lucky to get elected but once elected tend to govern well.

As an example, yesterday I got on my state’s (PA) R party web site. Filled out contact info to be more informed and involved. Then got sent to my township section to fill out more info. Hit submit and the page froze. I looked at the names of the important official in the party. Most seemed to be sons and daughters of prior state office holders decades ago. Not inspiring.

That’s how Philly became a one party city. Lazy, nepotistic R officials too busy networking among themselves to get elected.

Beasts of England said...

Anti-democratic stances?

Dave Begley said...

Occam’s Razor. The Dems cheat.

rehajm said...

Always amusing to see these post election deep dives that assume voting shifts are the result of what campaigns served up leading up to election say. Fundaments for decades have shown FL, OH and PA voters vote in similar patterns of direction and magnitude. When those patterns differ demographic shifts as voters leave or enter the state account for nearly all the differences.

PA has seen no major demographic shift in population in the last decade so their dramatic shift in voting patterns away from FL and OH is a statistical…mystery…

Enigma said...

Third factor, the ignored elephant in the room: Remote work arising with COVID led to all sorts of relocations and life reassessments among the white-collar, high-income workforce. Some workers left urban areas and moved to the deep suburbs/exurbs in state while others left for other states.

Many remote workers moved to South and Mountain regions, to include Florida and Texas, but certainly not Michigan or Pennsylvania (or Illinois or California). Some blue areas are facing absolute financial doom as the cream of their workforces disappear while others will be okay, while most red areas are doing okay or booming.

The people remaining in established blue areas may have made local blueness even deeper. NY is a mixed case, as it has crime/management issues, tax issues, plenty of within-state relocations, and as it remains fundamentally popular as an 'exciting' place to live.

tim in vermont said...

I am becoming increasingly convinced that organized crime plays a large role in our elections, in Illinois, it's gangs; same thing.

Remember in PA where heavily Republican election day voting was suppressed in the largest county due to failure to supply enough fucking paper? Yes, Democrats "excelled." If it were a black county, it would be the non stop focus of media attention, books would be written, documentaries and movies made.

Curious George said...

"A comparison between New York and Pennsylvania is illustrative. The states share a border — if you drive across the state line, things look about the same. Yet their election results look as if they’re from different universes...."

This proves to me that Nate Cohn is a fucking moron. You drive across ANY state border and things will look pretty much the same.

tim maguire said...

There's a lot of blame to go around, which means most people will have material to push their pet issues. Trump supporters will have their facts, Trump haters will have theirs. Outright fraud may or may not have played a role but, as with most things in government, the real scandal is what's legal--Democrats have successfully leveraged vote by mail to generate millions of votes and largely eliminate the secret ballot--a bedrock of effective democracy.

The worst outcome for Republicans is if they become so mired in finger pointing that they don't learn any lessons at all.

boatbuilder said...

One thing that seems to be ignored in most of the post-mortem analysis here is the power of incumbency. People are blaming Trump for Walker not getting the same votes as Kemp, but both Kemp and Warnock are the incumbents.

Tudor Dixon was a fantastic candidate, running against a witch. She still lost. The witch was the incumbent.

Did any incumbents lose, anywhere?

gilbar said...

In Pennsylvania, Republicans nominated a candidate for governor, Doug Mastriano, who was central to efforts to overturn the states’s 2020 presidential election results.

isn't this one of those races, that would be better stated as:
In Pennsylvania, Democrats voting in Republican primary nominated a candidate for governor, Doug Mastriano, who was central to efforts to overturn the states’s 2020 presidential election results.
???
isn't The Real Difference, that; Some states had open primaries, that allowed democrats to skew candidate choice? Aren't open primaries; the TRUE EVIL?

gilbar said...

Isn't Philadelphia in Pennsylvania?
Isn't Philadelphia the place where Black Panthers 'guarded' the polling places?
Isn't Philadelphia the place where voter turnout EXCEEDED 100%?
If things were like that then, Why would they be different now?

As far as New York; didn't the state (as a whole) stay True Blue?
Wasn't it only a few upstate areas that elected red reps?
Could an Actual New Yorker even be able to FIND upstate New York on a map?
That had it labelled; Upstate New York?

Howard said...

I'm increasingly convinced that people who say "I'm increasingly convinced" or "this is all you need to know about yada yada" Is all you need to know that they are nutters.

AMDG said...

We just need to look at the Fat Tub of Goo in the room.

In races where a candidate got his/her nomination through a Trump endorsement the candidate underperformed.

It should be noted that for many Trump candidates, the Democrats helped them to get the nominations.

For future reference; if you are a Republican and the Democrats are funding a candidate in a primary do not vote for him/her.


AMDG said...

In Georgia, the Republicans swept all statewide races except for one. I believe that legislative majorities were were expanded as well. I do know that both my state Senator and state rep will be flipping back to Republican.

Who was it that sold the one Republican who did not win state wide on the idea of running for office?

It is quite clear that independents detest Trump and want nothing to do with him or the candidates that he supports.

Gusty Winds said...

"In states where democracy and abortion were less directly at issue"

What does that even mean? "Where democracy....were less directly and issue?"

If Americans who voted for Democrats really bought into the idea that "democracy" was on the ballot...we're screwed.

You have to be an idiot to believe or even write that.

Unknown said...

Based on Cohn’s argument, shouldn’t abortion and “democracy” have been huge issues in Florida?

Achilles said...

How can we make sense of it? The results seem unusual because of two unusual issues: democracy and abortion. Unlike in the typical midterm election, these issues were driven by the actions of the party out of power.

I can't believe they ask a question with such an obvious answer.

Achilles said...

AMDG said...

We just need to look at the Fat Tub of Goo in the room.

In races where a candidate got his/her nomination through a Trump endorsement the candidate underperformed.


That is the 80 IQ take.

Even the Republican leadership is backing off that stupidity at this point.

Only the democrat trolls and the really stupid Romney bots are still pushing that.

Big Mike said...

It should be noted that for many Trump candidates, the Democrats helped them to get the nominations.

For future reference; if you are a Republican and the Democrats are funding a candidate in a primary do not vote for him/her.


AMDG is 100% right. The Democrats played Donald Trump, and were able to run the “Todd Akin gambit” in numerous races thanks to his love of celebrities and disdain for practical political experience.

Gunner said...

Can someone tell me when these alleged overwhelming votes for Kari Lake are going to be counted? Because her share keeps going down.

Gusty Winds said...

Dems used COVID fear to turn absentee ballot harvesting into and artform. It's been perfected in WI. 85% to 90% turnout in Dane County where "democracy" and abortion were on the ballot.

It is also meant to cause delays and chaos as we are seeing in AZ and Nevada. Well done!!

In Dane County, WI abortion is the end all be all...the right to have unprotected sex and use and abortion doctor for your birth control. And...you can convince people in Dance County to tilt at windmills so they can "protect democracy". Plus you have UW brainwashing and indoctrinating students at UW. What a joke.

I don't know what we were arguing about yesterday. Neither Trump nor DeSantis stand a chance in WI, MI, and PA unless the GOP can fire up a ballot harvesting operation like the Dems have done. Minnesota is now gone forever.

Ballot harvesting is now the key. It's no longer about any issues. It's about B-A-L-L-O-T H-A-R-V-E-S-T-I-N-G.

Achilles said...

U know there are some dumb people in here so I will spell out the obvious:

Pennsylvania mails out ballots to 105% of the population and gives it's ballot collectors a month to collect them and turn them in and it counts ballots that are not dated or signed. No photo ID is required anywhere in the process and there is no chain of custody. Pennsylvania has no record of how many ballots they actually mail or receive back available.

Florida requires photo Id to register for a ballot and has the drop boxes inside voting locations that are only available during business hours.

Yeah it is totally shocking that democrats did well in Pennsylvania and Republicans did well in Florida.

Totally shocking.

Bob Boyd said...

Trump was my last choice in the 2016 primary field. I've been very critical of Trump and certainly recognize his many flaws. I came to admire and respect him only after he performed so well as President. In 2016, I voted against Hillary. but in 2020 I voted for Donald Trump.

What should Trump do now? Should he run or should he retire? Does he help or hinder? Is his time over or is there an Act II? I don't know and that's not what this comment is about.

Here's what I do know.

Trump gave up his peaceful life and his comfortable position in society to try to reverse the tragic course our country was on after Clinton, Bush and Obama and with Hillary in the offing. Unbelievably, he actually won and became President.

Then he went on to accomplish the following:

The economy boomed
Conservative SCOTUS majority
Lowest unemployment rate in history, especially for people of color.
Woke the world up to the threat of China. Changed the whole conversation on China worldwide. Changed the direction of US-China relations for the advantage the American people, not just big business.
Exposed/ raised awareness of the true nature of the Deep State, the surveillance state and the Intelligence Community and it's incestuous relationship with Big Tech and Big business.
Didn't start any new wars.
The Abraham accords.
Tried to negotiate with Kim Jung Un and met with him.
Cut taxes.
Jerusalem Embassy
Pulled us out of climate accords
US became an oil and gas exporter
Brought a lot of attention to the plight of the abandoned American working class.
Made the immigration crisis a huge issue and a priority.
Brought attention to the incarceration of blacks that resulted from Clinton/Biden policies of the 90's and released many unfairly incarcerated blacks.
The list goes on.

Trump did all this while being hated and attacked far more than any other President by the media. He was attacked by the deep state and the IC. Investigated by Mueller on completely false charges created by the FBI. Impeached by the opposition on ridiculous charges twice. Supporters and appointees were destroyed by the Justice Dept in "the process is the punishment" example making.
He was attacked and sabotaged by entitled, status quo loving members of his own party like Ryan and Romney and even the so-called conservative media. Even Fox News had a panel of never Trumpers smearing him night after night. He withstood all this with grace and never lost his sense of humor. He was the most media accessible President in history in spite of the venomous hatred they displayed.

But oh, Trump wasn't perfect, so screw him. What has he done for us lately? He needs to just shut up and go away, right?
What a bunch of ingrates.

Look how the Dems treat the Clintons and the Obamas, like royalty. And look how conservatives treat Trump, like garbage. It's a disgrace.
Why would any decent conservative private citizen ever want to sign up to lead this country as a Republican after seeing what Trump went through and how Trump is treated now?

Sebastian said...

AMDG: "In Georgia, the Republicans swept all statewide races except for one . . . It is quite clear that independents detest Trump and want nothing to do with him or the candidates that he supports."

Preach it.

Both the Fat Tub and his supporters kept doing things with the obvious foreseeable effect of losing to Dems. What accounts for it--insane masochism or the actual desire to help Dems win?

I believe you used the ass cancer metaphor previously. Here's hoping GA and FL started the chemo.

hombre said...

The NYT reflects the shamelessness of Democrats. Pennsylvania has elected a mentally impaired deadbeat with a record of failure and a dangerous platform. The NYT: "Nothing to see here." In a normal universe Pennsylvania should be, and would be, a laughingstock. And then there was QuidProJoe.

Oh yeah, A-B-O-R-T-I-O-N. Democrat women think - no, "think" is wrong - "opine" that their need to have unprotected sex and kill babies outweighs inflation, energy dependence, murder rates, declining military readiness, free speech, and Democrat corruption. Never mind that abortion is, and will remain, available in most states. They NEED unfettered access. They are not merely imbeciles, they are monstrous imbeciles and are controlling the destiny of the nation.

Achilles said...

AMDG said...

Who was it that sold the one Republican who did not win state wide on the idea of running for office?

I think that the republicans like you betrayed the party and slagged Walker from the start.

Mitch McConnell pulled funding from the RNC from Walker and many other candidates. A lot of that money he pulled from the candidates went to Alaska to attack Tsibaka.

I think it was a bunch of holier than thou Romney wing republicans that didn't vote for Walker and spent the entire cycle like you being an albatross around our necks.

You saw the Republican intelligentsia come out with the stupid anti-trump garbage you are still spewing for a couple days.

They did not expect the reaction they got. We know who didn't support Walker.

They are talking about mail in voting now.

Lilly, a dog said...

Oh look, it's this thread again. I'm starting to feel like we're in "They Shoot Horses, Don't They?"

Drago said...

More "accident"-driven good news for democraticals in Nevada.

The Washoe County Livestream, put in place to allow people to have confidence in where the votes are stored, "accindentally" went dark for 9 hours last night....after the republican candidates had been leading there.

Its just Soviet style in your face stuff now.

Dont worry though. McConnell, McCarthy, Ronna Romney and crew are making doubly sure that no complaints about this are raised by the "respectable" republicans who are in full control of the republican party.

I guess they couldnt find a burst pipe excuse to use.

Christopher B said...

Sebastian said...

I believe you used the ass cancer metaphor previously. Here's hoping GA and FL started the chemo.


Florida? Really? DeSantis and Rubio cruised to victory. Shouldn't you be using them as an example?

Drago said...

It is a fair question to ask of the McConnell/Romney wing, well represented here at Althouse: will they vote for Walker in the runoff?

Particularly after spending 2 years blaming the 200+k dropoff for Perdue and Loeffler losses on the rural Trump supporting base?

Something tells me the refusal of the McConnell/Romney republicans to hold up their end of the voting bargain will also be blamed on you know who.

Neat trick. The McConnell/Romney republicans get to have it both ways while McConnell and Schumer celebrate and cut deals.

hombre said...

As for the contention that the 2020 election was corrupted, a plethora of evidence has surfaced to support that contention. I have not seen a poll where fewer than 40% believe the election was somehow contaminated. That it was not is a matter of blind faith and leftmedia/Democrat propaganda.

There is also the fact that any attempt to restore election integrity is opposed by Democrats and their lawyers.

What a shame that election integrity is a political issue rather than a matter of concern to all Americans. Gee, I wonder why.

Jefferson's Revenge said...

This is not a binary choice between a Romney wing (which does not exist, almost all Rs hate Romney now) and a Trump wing (which sort of exists). Republicans don't have to choose between one or the other. There are and will be candidates between the two extremes and who skew to one side or the other. The ideal situation is to vote for the candidate who most represents your place on the continuum WHO HAS THE GREATEST SHOT AT WINNING. You move the Overton Window back to normal over time, just like it took the Ds 20 years to get it where it is now.

In PA, where I live, Mastriano had no chance of winning. Ever. There are states where he may have gotten elected. Not here. That does not mean he's a bad guy. He does not fit the state. Oz's campaign had no messaging.In retrospect, McCormick would have done better. In GA, I don't know Walker- seems like a nice sincere guy but is he really the best Senate candidate the Rs could have put up?

This concept that you have to choose Romney or Trump is crazy. You can't change policy unless you win.

Drago said...

Sebastian: "Both the Fat Tub and his supporters kept doing things with the obvious foreseeable effect of losing to Dems"

What an absolutely perfect description of McConnell's and McCarthy's sabotage of republican candidates across the nation after refusing to generate a national electoral messaging strategy, other thsn corporate tax cuts and more Ukraine finding.

You were talking about McConnell, right?

Oh, and I guess I should congratulate you guys on returning Murkowski to the Senate. She is certainly a breath of fresh conservative republican air in these desperate times, no? No wonder McConnell went to the mat for her. She's terrific and was flush with GOP cash unlike...you know...the actual GOP candidate.

Bender said...

Oh how the pro-abortionists is the MSM -- and here with those folks pushing for legalized baby killing through 15 weeks -- want to have you believe that throngs of people wanting legalized baby killing were what stopped Republicans.

gilbar said...

isn't it Weird? that, in states where you have show id, the republicans did great
(do y'all know, that Des Moines now has a republican representative.. For the 1st time in my life)
(or, did i mention that Waterloo (AND iowa city) are both republican represented now too?)
Iowa is now red, from top to bottom... Wisconsin 'voter' turnout was what? 104% blue?

How, exactly, is Wisconsin different from Iowa? I mean, other than voter harvesting?

wildswan said...

I still feel that the election of 2022 is a huge blur which I now take to mean that it occurred in a time of major change. These changes are such permanent changes as the rise in work from home, moves to suburbs from the cities, Dobbs, the permanent threat of gas and oil cut offs from foreign producers for political reasons, the permanent capture of the Dem party by the far left. The only issue I distinctly understand at this moment is Dobbs or abortion.
Back awhile, Althouse wanted a discussion of abortion on the Wisconsin level but when I started working on my response, I found it wasn't simple.
First, there was pressure not to talk about abortion before the election. That's over.
Second, Wisconsin at present has a law which protects the unborn. I understand the need to discuss it, but at the same time I found it impossible to say "let's talk about abolishing protections that now exist for human beings so we can discuss a law that will be more defensible in the existing environment." It's like asking an abolitionist to work on the Fugitive Slave Act.
Yet the idea behind Dobbs was that the issue of abortion would go back to the states and there we would work on persuading. And I agree that we must persuade. We have to turn the hearts of men and women to their children. And others in society have to understand that the unborn have human rights or no one does. These are two almost separate issues in terms of approach. One requires deep human conversion; the other, science, logic and reason.
So I'll just throw this out for now. The crucial difference between a prolifer and the other side is that a prolifer sees the unborn as human from the moment of conception while the other side does not "see" the unborn as human till they "look human." This "look" is on a sliding scale but most "see them as human" at about 15 to 18 weeks. To which a prolifer responds, "we don't run our lives on 'looks like' as in 'that car looks great' but on 'we know from [science, long experience, ethics, religion]' as in 'I've looked it up online and that car is a lemon.' "
What are the facts on human development? To Be Continued

J Melcher said...

+10 for Bob Boyd's analysis.

I truly would like to see the GOP attempt to "isolate / placate" Trump by setting him up in the VP slot for the 2024 ticket, behind DeSantis. (Trump would have to move to a different state, first.) In an earlier century the US had a competent, loud-mouthed, very rich GOP political activist named Teddy Roosevelt. The party succeeded in isolating him in the office that John Adams called “the most insignificant office that ever the Invention of man contrived or his Imagination conceived.” * was the best solution possible. Keep him in the tent, p*ssing out. Trump could say what he pleased, and provoke conversations about third rail issues, that nobody else in any other office had the stage -- or chutzpah -- to mention. And Don would serve for Ron the same function Kamela serves for Joe; an assassination vaccine. However much opposition hates DeSantis they would surely think Trump worse.


* John Nance Garner later agreed, evaluating the job as "not worth a bucket of warm piss"

Saint Croix said...

Historically, Pennsylvania is strange in that the state had a Democrat governor who was pro-life, the famous (or infamous?) Bob Casey Sr. who governed the state from 1987 to 1995. He was replaced by the notorious (or wonderful?) pro-choice Republican Tom Ridge.

Casey's name should be memorable to lawyers as Planned Parenthood v. Casey came out of Pennsylvania. The Supreme Court's awful pro-choice opinion ratified and protected the abortion industry in the state of Pennsylvania. (Lawyers might notice that it was the industry that was suing, not women). The billion dollar "non-profit" succeeded in gutting state laws designed to oversee its infanticide operation.

Tom Ridge came to power, and cheapskate Republican that he was, decided there was no damn reason to do health inspections in abortion clinics in the state. After all, nice people use birth control.

That's why Dr. Kermit Gosnell operated so freely and callously for years in Philadelphia. The pro-choice Republican -- and his media-friendly non-critics -- just let all those infanticides go on and on and on. No health inspections! Who needs them! Just little black and brown babies.

Republicans who are paying attention to this shit might notice the racist implications of letting healthcare slip so badly in black neighborhoods. "Out of sight, out of mind!" Unless the photographs rise up from the underground and smite you callous bastards.

This is not going to be an easy fight. But if you let the fucking media tell you how to regulate abortion clinics, then you are just as guilty.

tim maguire said...

I only became aware of open primaries a few years ago. I couldn't believe it when I first heard of it. What a stupid idea!

If Republicans in open primary states don't make closing them as high a priority as getting rid of unlimited mail in balloting, then I don't know what to say. They may as well admit they aren't interested in winning.

AMDG said...


Blogger Achilles said...
AMDG said...

Who was it that sold the one Republican who did not win state wide on the idea of running for office?

I think that the republicans like you betrayed the party and slagged Walker from the start.

Mitch McConnell pulled funding from the RNC from Walker and many other candidates. A lot of that money he pulled from the candidates went to Alaska to attack Tsibaka.

I think it was a bunch of holier than thou Romney wing republicans that didn't vote for Walker and spent the entire cycle like you being an albatross around our necks.

——————x

1. I voted for Walker and will vote for him again in the runoff. That does not mean that I can’t point out the obvious which is the Fat Tub of Goo endorsed a seriously flawed candidate when a generic Republican (Jack Kingston maybe) would have easily exceeded 50%.

2. Yes, McConnell pulled money from candidates because most of all p, he wants to remain minority leader. That logic is beyond idiotic but you will come up with anything to avoid confronting the truth on your lord and Savior, Donald J. Trump.

You complain about how McConnell allocated his money and yet say nothing about Trump and how he did not spend. McConnell poured millions into Trump endorsed campaigns where people like Eric Schmidt required nothing.

Face the facts - Trump is over. His lame attack on DeSantis yesterday is a clear indication that he knows he is in danger. It was stupid because he has started to off his own supporters, except for bootlickers like you who their heads so far up Trump’s ass their tongues poke,out his nostrils.

Trump,is Ali in 1981 getting beat up by Trevor Burbick - it is pathetic and would be sad but since it is Trump it is funny.

Michael K said...

What Achilles said above.

Gunner said...

Can someone tell me when these alleged overwhelming votes for Kari Lake are going to be counted? Because her share keeps going down.


Maybe it was a mistake to encourage Republicans to vote on election day because, on election day, all the voting machines in Republican districts suddenly stopped working.
What a coincidence ! And the Secretary of State, who runs elections, is on the ballot !
There are still half a million votes to be counted. We'll see.

wildswan said...

I still feel that the election of 2022 is a huge blur which I now take to mean that it occurred in a time of major change. These changes are such permanent changes as the rise in work from home, moves to suburbs from the cities, Dobbs, the permanent threat of gas and oil cut offs from foreign producers for political reasons, the permanent capture of the Dem party by the far left. The only issue I distinctly understand at this moment is Dobbs or abortion.
Back awhile, Althouse wanted a discussion of abortion on the Wisconsin level but when I started working on my response, I found it wasn't simple.
First, there was pressure not to talk about abortion before the election. That's over.
Second, Wisconsin at present has a law which protects the unborn. I understand the need to discuss it, but at the same time I found it impossible to say "let's talk about abolishing protections that now exist for human beings so we can discuss a law that will be more defensible in the existing environment." It's like asking an abolitionist to work on the Fugitive Slave Act.
Yet the idea behind Dobbs was that the issue of abortion would go back to the states and there we would work on persuading. And I agree that we must persuade. We have to turn the hearts of men and women to their children. And others in society have to understand that the unborn have human rights or no one does. These are two almost separate issues in terms of approach. One requires deep human conversion; the other, science, logic and reason.
So I'll just throw this out for now. The crucial difference between a prolifer and the other side is that a prolifer sees the unborn as human from the moment of conception while the other side does not "see" the unborn as human till they "look human." This "look" is on a sliding scale but most "see them as human" at about 15 to 18 weeks. To which a prolifer responds, "we don't run our lives on 'looks like' as in 'that car looks great' but on 'we know from [science, long experience, ethics, religion]' as in 'I've looked it up online and that car is a lemon.' "
What are the facts on human development? To Be Continued

J Melcher said...

A few decades back the abortion issue was linked to the issue of capital punishment. Executions. The "pro choice" faction called the "anti abortion" faction liars for describing themselves as "pro LIFE" when most supported killing convicted murderers. The "pro life" team argued that executions helped prevent murder-of-the-innocent, just as restrictions on abortion would prevent the murder-of-infants. But the real distinction was that one issue relied on constitutional penumbras and emanations, while the other had the originalist text to interpret "cruel and unusual".

Over time, and almost without media attention, SCOTUS has shifted the problem back to the individual states. Some states execute murderers. Some don't. Some activists are still in court to delay or challenge "cruel" executions. And sometimes they win and sometimes they don't.

Over a longer period the issue of prohibition of liquor sales has evolved similarly. The constitution dropped the issue. States -- and individual counties-- did, or did not, allow booze in various places. There were weird patchwork jurisdictions and lines drawn. And the issue has faded from the sort of headline, spotlight, slogan-driven noise in our national campaigns.

I see no particular reason the abortion question can't be decided by states and counties the way executions and booze vending questions are settled.

Achilles said...

Sebastian said...

AMDG: "In Georgia, the Republicans swept all statewide races except for one . . . It is quite clear that independents detest Trump and want nothing to do with him or the candidates that he supports."

Preach it.

Both the Fat Tub and his supporters kept doing things with the obvious foreseeable effect of losing to Dems. What accounts for it--insane masochism or the actual desire to help Dems win?

I believe you used the ass cancer metaphor previously. Here's hoping GA and FL started the chemo.


You are the definition of a hypocrite.

Achilles said...

Bob Boyd said...

Look how the Dems treat the Clintons and the Obamas, like royalty. And look how conservatives treat Trump, like garbage. It's a disgrace.
Why would any decent conservative private citizen ever want to sign up to lead this country as a Republican after seeing what Trump went through and how Trump is treated now?


You have to understand what people like ADMG and Sebastian feel.

They are status conscious. They look down on the new working class people that came into the Republican party. They look down on outsiders like Trump and his working class supporters.

When the GOPe launches a vicious smear campaign against Trump Trump and his supporters are just supposed to sit quietly and accept it.

But Trump fires back and highlights their pretentious bullshit.

This upsets them. Nobody likes to look in the mirror.

WWIII Joe Biden, Husk-Puppet + America's Putin said...

Bob Boyd - excellent points. Really - spot on.

Flash forward to now: A nation desperate for non-leftist wins - Trump just dumped all over a big win in Florida. For me - that's all it took for Trump spoil the goodwill he built up with me, and others. This one is on Trump. He doesn't understand Reagan's rules.
Oh well - part of me thinks maybe he is doing DeSantis a favor.

Believe me when I say the corrupt left's collective treatment of Trump will never be forgotten by me. The left were partly successful in their destruction of the man. Trump walked into some of it.

MacMacConnell said...

Republicans just need to acclaimate to the new circus election rules. Learn to harvest mail in ballots and realize it's not election day anymore, it's election month! WTF

Achilles said...

Big Mike said...

It should be noted that for many Trump candidates, the Democrats helped them to get the nominations.

For future reference; if you are a Republican and the Democrats are funding a candidate in a primary do not vote for him/her.

AMDG is 100% right. The Democrats played Donald Trump, and were able to run the “Todd Akin gambit” in numerous races thanks to his love of celebrities and disdain for practical political experience.

How come Kelly Loeffler wasn't a bad pick also?

Oh that was Trump's fault too!

You all are just a bunch of Hypocrites.

Gusty Winds said...

Achilles said...Pennsylvania mails out ballots to 105% of the population and gives it's ballot collectors a month to collect them and turn them in and it counts ballots that are not dated or signed. No photo ID is required anywhere in the process and there is no chain of custody. Pennsylvania has no record of how many ballots they actually mail or receive back available.

Florida requires photo Id to register for a ballot and has the drop boxes inside voting locations that are only available during business hours.


That's right on the money Achilles. You're truth seeker and truth teller. Wisconsin is a bit tighter that PA, but the Democrat ballot harvesting operation is impressive. The GOP better learn to fight fire with fire. Time to start leaning into the pitch like the Astros.

People can read the two contrasts in voting systems you provided...and still think it was all about Donald Trump. With that system in place Ron DeSantis doesn't stand a chance in 2024.

We had a shot to address state to state voting laws in 2020. Texas vs Pennsylvania. But the Supreme Court cowered, and many, like professor Althouse, didn't want them to take the case in the first place.

Now it's too late. Absentee ballot harvesting is here to stay. And it's ripe for the fraudulent pickins'.

Lurker21 said...

I looked at the names of the important official in the party. Most seemed to be sons and daughters of prior state office holders decades ago.

Yes, some blue state Republican parties are like Mel Brooks' The Producers, they think they can win (hold on to their jobs) best by losing (the actual elections). Years ago, the Establishment simply put up hapless, befuddled WASPs as sacrificial lambs. Now in many cases, the Establishment has been overthrown and things haven't improved.

But wanting "real Republicans" to run in states that don't want "real Republicans" is also part of the problem. So state parties and their voters are in a bind. What's better (if either alternative is) winning with someone who's basically a Democrat in disguise (Vermont) or losing with someone who's more of a "real Republican" (Massachusetts, Maine)?

tim in vermont said...

DoJ says that mobster convicted of ballot stuffing in PA got several of the judges who hear election complaints elected, but DoJ is keeping their identity a secret. FBI also charged the mob involved brother of a PA Supreme Court “justice” with election fixing.

Nothing to worry about though, only a nutter would find this problematic.

The mob helped Joe Biden win his first election when the mob called a wildcat strike for one day of the newspaper delivery union the Sunday before the election when his opponent had put an insert in the paper laying out Biden’s corruption up to then.

WWIII Joe Biden, Husk-Puppet + America's Putin said...

Trump is taking all the goodwill he built up and flushing it down his own ego toilet.

Again - this is Trump's F-up now.

pacwest said...

I agree with Bob Boyd although he did leave a lot of Trump's accomplishments out. The list is too long. But no more mean tweets right? Now the Dems will play nice? LOL. (Insert general insult here)

If DeSantis runs I will vote for him primary and general *assuming his platform merits it. It won't be an anti-Trump vote like a lot of the commenters here. It's because Trump was Trump lite. DeSantis is Trump in spades imo. Caveat: I'm assuming DeSantis's foreign policy will adhere to if not exceed Trump’s. His domestic policy within his own state has.

*If DeSantis doesn't have a plan in place to dismantle the FBI, DOJ, CIA, etc. he loses my vote. Trump does. I like what I know of his policy on education although I think he under shoots the mark.

Consider me an ever-Trumper willing to trade up to the new improved model.

WWIII Joe Biden, Husk-Puppet + America's Putin said...

Trump is doing himself in. He sounds like a scorned and jealous ex-girlfriend. ..or - That angry woman pointing and screaming at the white cat at the counter.

Scroll all the way down for his own supporters tweets.

Achilles said...

I really look forward to the Republican party uniting behind Tsibaka and Walker for their runoffs.

100% support and all out effort.

I also expect the Republican party to send 100's of lawyers down to Arizona to deal with the obvious shenanigans being pulled by the Democrat candidate who is also in charge of the election while it takes them a week to count 500,000 ballots.

I know that Mitch McConnell is 100% behind all republican candidates.

I know that these Romney wing republicans are all in for the republican party and would rather work towards effective solutions than jump into a vicious finger pointing orgy.

WWIII Joe Biden, Husk-Puppet + America's Putin said...

2024 GOP primary:
DeSantis would skate to the nomination without Trump there to Bloody him. (Trump knows this, obviously)
Trump will bloody DeSantis in the primary, and do the work of the democrat party. (a win/win for the democrat party) Trump's words and actions right now play right into the democrat party playbook.
Good news is no one is buying Trump's silly "DeSanctimonious" name-calling. Epic fail.

Lurker21 said...

Yes, election laws and ballot harvesting had a lot to do with the results. Also, it looks like some states with stagnant economies (Pennsylvania, Michigan) sort of like things that way. That largely applies to New York as well, as the statewide races show. People who wanted a different or better life have left and those who are left want or will put up with things as they are. Add that to corruption, and the choice of really poor candidates in Pennsylvania, and it's hard to say what was the crucial or decisive factor.


Does the Times Style Book dictate that whenever a writer mentions people's feelings about Trump or Republicans, the headline writer has to work "pro-democracy" or "anti-democracy" into the headline? That was my first thought, but then I realized that many Democrat voters are so thoroughly propagandized that they do believe that their votes against Republicans and against "Trumpism" really are votes against the anti-democracy forces. That is a good example of what propagandists do. They give people labels to put on their vague feelings or emotional reactions. That gives substance to the reactions and makes them a reliable tool for the party to use.

maximusK said...

Jefferson's Revenge said...
Once again the D’s showed they know how to get elected but they don’t know how to govern once elected

Yes, the R's are sooooo much better at governing once elected. /s

They both suck, most but not all suck.

So what?

Achilles said...

Hunter Biden's tax payer funded Hooker said...

Trump is taking all the goodwill he built up and flushing it down his own ego toilet.

Again - this is Trump's F-up now.


The GOPe started this. They are attacking Trump. Trump has to fight back.

It is up to Desantis to end this fight.

Desantis either supports Trump and tells the GOPe to F-off with this smear campaign.

or

Desantis stops being a stalking horse and attacks Trump himself.

Desantis needs to stop being a coward. But my hunch is Desantis knew this was coming given his current campaign team organization.

Trump in my opinion is going after the wrong target and should be making the path for Ron to do the right thing easier.

But Trump is targeting the correct pressure point. Desantis needs to fish or cut bait.

WWIII Joe Biden, Husk-Puppet + America's Putin said...

PA = Chicago now.

The GOP, and even Trump -were asleep at the wheel while the democrats corrupted much of our voting system. DEMOCRACY!

Mike (MJB Wolf) said...

Well we have well run states that take fraud seriously like Florida. And we have AZ, NV and PA to show what goes wrong when you lose control of the "one man one vote" plan. The machines should be outlawed and go back to scantron forms that work and can be hand counted easily if need be.

wendybar said...

Bob Boyd said : "Trump did all this while being hated and attacked far more than any other President by the media. He was attacked by the deep state and the IC. Investigated by Mueller on completely false charges created by the FBI. Impeached by the opposition on ridiculous charges twice. Supporters and appointees were destroyed by the Justice Dept in "the process is the punishment" example making.
He was attacked and sabotaged by entitled, status quo loving members of his own party like Ryan and Romney and even the so-called conservative media. Even Fox News had a panel of never Trumpers smearing him night after night. He withstood all this with grace and never lost his sense of humor. He was the most media accessible President in history in spite of the venomous hatred they displayed.

But oh, Trump wasn't perfect, so screw him. What has he done for us lately? He needs to just shut up and go away, right?
What a bunch of ingrates.

Look how the Dems treat the Clintons and the Obamas, like royalty. And look how conservatives treat Trump, like garbage. It's a disgrace.
Why would any decent conservative private citizen ever want to sign up to lead this country as a Republican after seeing what Trump went through and how Trump is treated now?"

11/11/22, 7:54 AM

Hear, Hear Bob...and it is those same people are that are treating Trump supporters the same way. Ungrateful POS's.

Achilles said...

pacwest said...

Consider me an ever-Trumper willing to trade up to the new improved model.

I am 50/50 with Desantis. He was a founding member of the Congressional Freedom Caucus. He has done great things. He handled Covid better than Trump. I have hope he stays true to that.

But his actions after the raid on Mar-a-lago and his current silence while the GOPe smears against Trump is not promising.

We need the Trump voters or there is zero chance in Wisconsin, Pennsylvania and Michigan. If the GOPe succeeds in dividing the party we are done.

Right now only Ron Desantis can save this situation given the people in play.

Trump will not back down. It's the way Trump is. He is self centered and driven by an insane need to win. Not the best traits in a friend.

But we don't need a friend to take on the swamp. We need a borderline insane murderous bastard who will never back down and never go quietly. It also helps that Trump was betrayed by everyone in DC and will nurture this resentment and hold that grudge.

wendybar said...

pacwest said : "*If DeSantis doesn't have a plan in place to dismantle the FBI, DOJ, CIA, etc. he loses my vote. Trump does. I like what I know of his policy on education although I think he under shoots the mark."

THIS^^^^

Achilles said...

Hunter Biden's tax payer funded Hooker said...

2024 GOP primary:
DeSantis would skate to the nomination without Trump there to Bloody him. (Trump knows this, obviously)
Trump will bloody DeSantis in the primary, and do the work of the democrat party. (a win/win for the democrat party) Trump's words and actions right now play right into the democrat party playbook.
Good news is no one is buying Trump's silly "DeSanctimonious" name-calling. Epic fail.


Who started the attacks?

Did Trump start it?

No Republican even comes close to winning without Trump's voters.

The real problem here is the GOPe and this campaign they are coordinating with the news media and the Regime.

Jefferson's Revenge said...

To Achilles- But a person who is publicly perceived as a borderline insane bastard will not get elected. I would prefer a calm, thoughtful bulldog who will be quietly tenacious. A Scott Walker from WI with more of a national presence???? A bigger personality but lacking Trump's unnecessary bluster.

Abbott, DeSantis, maybe Younkin come to mind. Not Pence, Pompeo, Haley. Though I do like Haley for VP. I think she would campaign well.

wendybar said...

THIS is who is the drag on the Republican party.
He still hasn't gotten over losing with the other loser...
Romney. IF Republicans stick with these idiots, they may as well give up.
I am done with THAT party. THEY suck. https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2022/11/dirtbag-paul-ryan-says-president-trump-drag-party-party-rove-bush-cheney-ryan-party/

WWIII Joe Biden, Husk-Puppet + America's Putin said...

Adam Kinzinger(D) - Jan 6th committee hack says:

"Adam Kinzinger emphasizes that Ron DeSantis’ huge win doesn’t mean the GOP wants more Ron DeSantis"
So now- Trump and Kinzinger are on the same page. That is really pathetic.

Bruce Hayden said...

“Remember in PA where heavily Republican election day voting was suppressed in the largest county due to failure to supply enough fucking paper? Yes, Democrats "excelled." If it were a black county, it would be the non stop focus of media attention, books would be written, documentaries and movies made.”

And here in AZ, the, by far, most populous county, Maricopa, went from polling places to consolidated voting centers, which, of course, failed. The Dems tended to vote absentee more, and the Republicans showed up at these voting centers more. Did the Dems know that the voting centers wouldn’t work,and that was why they pushed their people to vote by mail/absentee? Is Dem SoS Katie Hobbs running for governor?

I think that the solution in AZ, is to lock it down, like they did in FL. They tried, but maybe not hard enough. That is if this crew of Republican candidates can pull off wins. Outgoing Gov Ducey seemed to be a get-along-with-Democrats type of guy. And the execrable, Soros funded Hobbs was the SoS. The Rep Gov, SoS, and AG seem more like fire breathers, like you tend to find in the House.

Yancey Ward said...

Sigh......the difference between NY and PA is that the NY, for a blue state, has one of the most strict control of absentee balloting- almost as hard to vote absentee as in FL. Some of those restrictions were loosened after the 2020 election, but it is still way harder to vote by mail in NY than it is in PA, CA, CO, etc. I suspect this was the last election in NY that doesn't involve mass mailing of absentee ballots- they made the same "mistake" two elections in a row and left the Republicans with 11 House seats as a result of a basically fair voting system. In 2024, I think all but 3 or 4 of those GOP seats in NY will be buried in an avalanche of mail-in-ballots.

Joe Smith said...

The public is getting dumber.

I hear the average IQ is 100 in America, but I don't believe that for a second...

BUMBLE BEE said...

You don't fight, you get what you get. Your offspring too.
Hide neath the covers and study your pain.

wendybar said...

Meanwhile, this POS is embarrassing America every freaking day. The world is laughing at all of us. They feared us when Trump was President, now they just point and laugh and call Americans idiots for voting in a puppet.

https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2022/11/biden-apologizes-trump-pulling-paris-climate-accord-speaks-gibberish-global-climate-conference-egypt-video/

Anthony said...

Mail-in ballot fraud. Someone here(?) mentioned that Dems are now going after ballots, not votes. There will never, IMO, be a believable election result with significant mail-in ballots.

Mike said...

Where "democracy was on the ballot" Dems were blowing more smoke than a thousand megawatt coal fired power plant. But it worked. Some people like to have smoke blown up their skirt.

Inga said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
MGB said...

I remember working in Tallahassee as a student and crossing the town/gown line. Florida has always been deeply conservative.
How else could you get elected state wide only by exposing your opponent by stating "He is a HOMO SAPIENS!).

Joe Smith said...

Speaking of the Hindenburg, I see 'Lee Zeldin' but think 'Led Zeppelin.'

Paging Dr. Freud?

pacwest said...

But we don't need a friend to take on the swamp. We need a borderline insane murderous bastard who will never back down and never go quietly.

99.9%. I don't consider Trump borderline insane. Just the opposite. Reference Bob Boyd's comment.
There is no other option at this point imo. That's why my support for DeSantis has an asterisk. The clock is ticking and if we can't get the indoctrination out of our schools the decline will be irreversible.
Anecdote: My 90 year old mother, a dyed-in-the-wool Democrat ex teacher, "If Trump would just shut up I'd vote for him" lends credence to Hunter's Hooker's reasoning, but only to the point that he realizes that it's not a level playing field. DeSantis will be demonized just as badly as Trump and the manner in which Dems get votes needs to be neutralized.

rcocean said...

Because Trump won Michagan and Pennsyvannia in 2016, and almost won in 2020 (and maybe did if only valid votes had been counted), Republicans somehow got the idea they were red states. They aren't. Pennsylvannia has been electing Liberal Bob Casey to the Senate for years. Its only vote R once since 1992 for President. The same is true of Michagan.

Toomey, who's leaving the senate, won in two squeeker elections in 2010 and 2016, both Republican years. He won in 2016 by 1 percent. That's why he retired.

Michagan has not had a Republican Senator for 20 years.

rcocean said...

Because Trump won Michagan and Pennsyvannia in 2016, and almost won in 2020 (and maybe did if only valid votes had been counted), Republicans somehow got the idea they were red states. They aren't. Pennsylvannia has been electing Liberal Bob Casey to the Senate for years. Its only vote R once since 1992 for President. The same is true of Michagan.

Toomey, who's leaving the senate, won in two squeeker elections in 2010 and 2016, both Republican years. He won in 2016 by 1 percent. That's why he retired.

Michagan has not had a Republican Senator for 20 years.

Inga said...

“So I'll just throw this out for now. The crucial difference between a prolifer and the other side is that a prolifer sees the unborn as human from the moment of conception while the other side does not "see" the unborn as human till they "look human." This "look" is on a sliding scale but most "see them as human" at about 15 to 18 weeks. To which a prolifer responds, "we don't run our lives on 'looks like' as in 'that car looks great' but on 'we know from [science, long experience, ethics, religion]' as in 'I've looked it up online and that car is a lemon.' "”

Wildswan, you are not understanding how pro choice people think. Many pro choice people like myself understand and accept that the life in a woman’s womb is human. Of course it’s human. However, pro choice people who believe the baby in the womb is human, we don’t believe we have the right to prevent a pregnant woman from getting an abortion. We don’t have the right to force a woman to carry and give birth when she does not want to do so. We don’t believe we have that sort of power and we believe that the government does not have that power. What a woman does to the life in her womb while the life in her womb is still entirely dependent on her to keep it alive, is HER BUSINESS. She and she alone will answer to God for her actions. The Government is not God. Pro Life people are not God. The woman is the master of her own body and the life she carries until that life is viable without her.

I wish women would not want to abort their babies, I wish we lived in a world where every woman would want every baby they conceived. I wish we lived in a world in which women who were not financially or emotionally stable would be serious and responsible with birth control. I wish we lived in a world where girls were not impregnated by relatives. I wish we lived in a world where women were not raped.

Forcing women to do what YOU think she should do will never be accepted. Women have a right to autonomy over their own bodies, until a time the baby is viable.

WWIII Joe Biden, Husk-Puppet + America's Putin said...

Inga -
I think we should go the way of France and keep it legal up to a viability threshold. 12-14 weeks. To me it's still killing an unborn child - but alas - that is what a majority of Gen Z women want.

We live in a callous time when abortion is used as birth control. A campaign to encourage better use of birth control would be nice. Both sides should stop lying and face reality.

Lilly, a dog said...

Inga posted a comment I agree with at 11:03. I will spend the rest of the day looking for my wakizashi. The end is nigh.

WWIII Joe Biden, Husk-Puppet + America's Putin said...

rcocean - good reminder.

Maynard said...

I am 50/50 with Desantis. He was a founding member of the Congressional Freedom Caucus. He has done great things. He handled Covid better than Trump. I have hope he stays true to that.

But his actions after the raid on Mar-a-lago and his current silence while the GOPe smears against Trump is not promising.


Smart poker players pick the hands they play. Losers try to play every hand.

Trump is beginning to remind me of a poker player on tilt. He is pissed off at getting screwed and wants to fight every battle. That is not wise.

tim maguire said...

Inga said...Many pro choice people like myself understand and accept that the life in a woman’s womb is human. Of course it’s human.

We're actually giving you the benefit of the doubt when we say that you don't see the fetus as human. The alternative, the one you say is normal for a pro-choice person, is that being pro-choice means supporting a parent's right to murder their child.

One more way in which liberals are really medieval--they see children as property with no rights of their own. That's monstrous.

lonejustice said...

This morning on Coffee with Scott Adams, Scott cut off all of his support for Trump. Scott had been a vocal supporter of Trump for many years, and it cost him dearly, both financially and in his personal relationships. But enough is enough.

Inga said...

“One more way in which liberals are really medieval--they see children as property with no rights of their own. That's monstrous.”

Unborn children before viability do not own the womb they reside in. That womb belongs to a grown or half grown human woman. That woman does have property rights to her own property, her body. To give the unborn child more rights than the woman it resides in until it’s of viable age is actually more monstrous. Who are YOU to take away a grown human beings right to herself? You are not omnipotent God. You are a sanctimonious interferer in matters that do not concern you. That unborn child will be welcomed into the arms of God. God may actually understand more than us imperfect humans. Don’t put yourself on the same level as God.

Bob Boyd said...

@ Hunter Biden’s taxpayer funded Hooker at 8:51 am

When I read Trump’s attack on DeSantis my visceral reaction was entirely negative.

D.D. Driver said...

Pennsylvania has no record of how many ballots they actually mail or receive back available.

https://data.pa.gov/stories/s/kptg-uury

Maynard said...

Forcing women to do what YOU think she should do will never be accepted. Women have a right to autonomy over their own bodies, until a time the baby is viable.

Yes. That is easy to argue and I generally agree.

The hard question is: When is the baby viable?

Drago said...

lonejustice: "This morning on Coffee with Scott Adams, Scott cut off all of his support for Trump. Scott had been a vocal supporter of Trump for many years, and it cost him dearly, both financially and in his personal relationships. But enough is enough."

Well. That should just about do it, eh?

Drago said...

Inga: "What a woman does to the life in her womb while the life in her womb is still entirely dependent on her to keep it alive, is HER BUSINESS."

Except no one of any note or position in the "pro-choice" movement is making that argument, are they?

They all say the same thing: the baby is not a life. That's why they categorize abortions as any other procedure where something is removed from the body. That's what the "pro-choice" movement is. Whether or not a democratical rando somewhere thinks otherwise is irrelevant.

Democraticals are advancing bills that would allow post-birth "abortion". Now some of us prefer the term "murder" for that, but hey, that's just us.

The last honest liberal on this issue was Camille Paglia who said outright that abortion was the killing of an innocent child and that any conversation about abortion should not hide from that fact...and even given that she was for abortion rights.

Needless to say Camille was not invited back to any discussions on abortion after that.

Saint Croix said...

I think we should go the way of France and keep it legal up to a viability threshold. 12-14 weeks. To me it's still killing an unborn child - but alas - that is what a majority of Gen Z women want.

Fuck!

Very frustrating to me the amount of ignorance around this issue.

Our media overlords are awful, truly awful.

The "viability" standard is a baby's ability to survive outside the womb. That is way later than 12-14 weeks.

As a matter of fact, newborns can't survive outside the womb, unless the adults have an obligation to feed and care for the child.

This is why Blackmun cited pagans like Plato for his viability theory. It was this sorry ass arbitrary standard that got Roe v. Wade booted out of the law books.

If you like the "viability" doctrine, you should be fighting to free Kermit Gosnell from prison, because none of the babies he killed could survive on their own.

Parenthood provides moral and legal obligations, and feminists hate that shit.

We live in a callous time when abortion is used as birth control. A campaign to encourage better use of birth control would be nice. Both sides should stop lying and face reality.

I am not lying. Are you sure about your facts?

Saint Croix said...

I think what you mean to say is "arbitrary first trimester standard."

Be sure to use the word "arbitrary" when you talk about your proposed rule. If you want to be honest.

Women Can Abort On Wednesdays.

See what I mean? Spare me your fucking calendar.

Drago said...

It appears there is one Florida politician who has been paying attention, understands the utter barriers McConnell and McCarthy pose for expanding the republican base and now sees an opening to maybe get in where he believes Trump is leaving off:

And if you can believe it, its Marco Rubio:

Marco Rubio@marcorubio
US Senate candidate, FL

The Senate GOP leadership vote next week should be postponed

First we need to make sure that those who want to lead us are genuinely committed to fighting for the priorities & values of the working Americans (of every background) who gave us big wins in states like #Florida

9:54 AM · Nov 11, 2022

https://twitter.com/marcorubio/status/1591112183945269251

Careful Marco. Lots of respectable republicans aren't going to like that one bit and besides, everyone is supposed to be blaming Trump for all the ills of the GOPe for the last several decades, and probably at least another decade to come.

Perhaps some of the commenters at Althouse blog could take a moment to explain to Marco why challenging the magnificent Mitch is not very nice at all.

Saint Croix said...

What a woman does to the life in her womb while the life in her womb is still entirely dependent on her to keep it alive, is HER BUSINESS. She and she alone will answer to God for her actions. The Government is not God. Pro Life people are not God. The woman is the master of her own body and the life she carries until that life is viable without her.

There is no right to contract and the government can outlaw ugly baby-killing contracts. You have no right to pay somebody money to kill your baby. Sorry, it doesn't exist.

Saint Croix said...

States can also enforce the Hippocratic Oath and kick out any doctor who violates the Hippocratic Oath. Period.

Drago said...

Bruce Hayden: "Outgoing Gov Ducey seemed to be a get-along-with-Democrats type of guy. And the execrable, Soros funded Hobbs was the SoS. The Rep Gov, SoS, and AG seem more like fire breathers, like you tend to find in the House."

Ducey is your classic "respectable" McCain machine guy. He is also the head of the Republican Governors Association.

After a very difficult 3-way battle for the republican nomination for Gov of PA, Mastriano won and wanted to bring the party back together for the general election. So he traveled out west to meet with Ducey. Ducey told Doug Mastriano point blank that Mastriano "wasn't our kind of people" and that Mastriano would not be receiving any support from the RGA.

Mitch McConnell then worked out a deal with Karl Rove such that the ads Karl Rove would be running on behalf of OZ would very slyly do 2 things: attack Fetterman while also making a comparison to Shapiro which painted Shapiro in a good light.

Yes, you read that correctly. The RGA abandoned Mastriano early, and made it known they had done so to undermine Mastriano, and then simultaneously McConnell/Rove coordinated their Senate ads to undermine Mastriano in the Gov's race.

Needless to say, that's all Trump's fault. Obviously. And probably Elon Musk's too the way things are going.

Inga said...

“The hard question is: When is the baby viable?”


According to accepted medical 24 weeks, babies as young as 21 weeks have survived. It would be prudent to limit abortion to 18 weeks. That’s my opinion, Americans have no say (yet) in the matter. Even 15 weeks is giving the woman an option.

Inga said...

Accepted medical “knowledge”.

holdfast said...

Although New York and Florida are politically quite different, they both have pretty robust systems of election integrity, and they make it hard to hard to number meddle in the other party’s primaries.

Whereas Pennsylvania is a bloody mess. As are Nevada and Arizona.

Tom_Ohio said...

It was all about the ballots. Mail them out everywhere, leave extra ones in a pile for people to fill out, pay people to fill them out and take 50 at a time to some hidden boxes.
Even now in Arizona, box trucks full of ballots are pulling in with their loads of ballots to be slow counted to further the narrative(s) being pushed by MSM, Swamp, GOpe, AP, etc.
Everywhere ballot manipulations of mass mailings and mass collections and slow counting is involved is so suspect to me that I feel that the country is lost.
Soros backed Secretaries of State unleashed this mess on those states and consequently onto the rest of the US.

Maynard said...

It would be prudent to limit abortion to 18 weeks. That’s my opinion, Americans have no say (yet) in the matter. Even 15 weeks is giving the woman an option.

Actually Americans will have a lot of say in the matter. The arguments boil down to:

1. Abortion at any time;
2. Abortion at no time and;
3. Abortion at 12, 15 or 18 weeks.

Options #1 and #2 are the extremes that get hysterically played up in the media. Option #3 is probably where most people stand, including conservatives on this site.

So, are we arguing over the difference of a few weeks?

Maynard said...

The RGA abandoned Mastriano early, and made it known they had done so to undermine Mastriano, and then simultaneously McConnell/Rove coordinated their Senate ads to undermine Mastriano in the Gov's race.

From my perspective here in Tucson, both Kari Lake and Blake Masters were abandoned by McConnell because they are obviously not in his camp.

Achilles said...

Drago said...
It appears there is one Florida politician who has been paying attention, understands the utter barriers McConnell and McCarthy pose for expanding the republican base and now sees an opening to maybe get in where he believes Trump is leaving off:

And if you can believe it, its Marco Rubio:


Mitch must go.

But it is Rubio so suspicious cat is suspicious.

Eyes are narrow…

Josephbleau said...

"We just need to look at the Fat Tub of Goo in the room."

The ad hominem insults the writer, not the subject. Although many enjoy surrounding themselves in ugliness. (Sorry, but they do.)

CStanley said...

nga: "What a woman does to the life in her womb while the life in her womb is still entirely dependent on her to keep it alive, is HER BUSINESS."

Are newborns not also entirely dependent on other humans for survival? The only difference is a matter of location, and the fact that care can be provided by other people in society instead of the specific person who gestated the child. That is the crux of the matter, because feminists feel it is unfair to burden the females of our species in this way. But that burden is one imposed by nature, or biology, or God, depending on one’s beliefs (and in most cases can be avoided by that woman’s choices before she becomes pregnant) but it is NOT a burden imposed by society and it certainly doesn’t justify murder.

Inga said...

Looks like Masto is close to winning in Nevada.

h said...

In my state (Maryland) there are 8 Congressional districts. The Dem candidate in 2022 underperformed Biden in 2020 in all eight of those districts by 1-15 points (so Biden beat Trump by 36 points in district 5, but the Dem beat the Rep by only 24 points in 2022). The average difference (between Biden margin in 2020 and the Dem margin in 2022) is 8 percentage points. But the party affiliation of the Congressional delegation did not change in the 2022 election (7 Dem seats, 1 Rep seat).

Josephbleau said...

We propose a new standard of abortion term. When a woman becomes pregnant there is a physical human change that occurs to prepare the female human subject for the generation and sustenance of the creature. This distorts the body of the female from her unimpregnated state.

So there is a period where the bodily form of the female will be minimally changed by the hormonal processes of pregnancy. We propose, then, that abortion be allowed prior to distortions of the female body due to the imposed changes of natural pregnancy.

Decide then, medically, when the change occurs. Allow abortion before that time. But know also that the act of abortion may change a woman's hormonal mix concurrently.

Future work: Do women want abortions because they don't want their bodies stretched or their vaginas ripped? Or because they don't want the creature to emerge and be demanding? Other proposals are that the female wants to destroy the progeny of a man as revenge.

Is it rather that society demands abortion to put more women in the work place?

Drago said...

Inga: "Looks like Masto is close to winning in Nevada."

Yes, after the 24/7 webcams that were to be kept on continuously mysteriously went dark for 9 hours, overnight. No big deal, just the very thing that was put in place to give confidence no cheating can take place....and the cameras go out.

And then just like that, suddenly, the cameras come back on in the morning and votes start going Masto's way!

Yes, the democraticals literally Jeffrey Epstein-ed the vote in Nevada. As you knew they would.

Democracy indeed dies in darkness. Democratical darkness.

BTW, I did a quick back of the envelope calculation and apparently Democratical Cameras have a 94.72% failure rate, but only for specific periods of time.

I guess they couldn't find any "burst water pipes" so the democraticals improvised with simply turning off the cameras. How very 2020 of them.

Meanwhile, is Mitch McConnell or Ronna Romney-McDaniel complaining? Of course not. Mitch set this election up to come up short on taking the Senate so its all good as far as he is concerned.

Inga said...

“Yes, after the 24/7 webcams that were to be kept on continuously mysteriously went dark for 9 hours, overnight. No big deal, just the very thing that was put in place to give confidence no cheating can take place....and the cameras go out.”

Drago, it’s pathetic the way you Trumpists immediately whine about someone cheating somewhere. Paranoia isn’t a good look for you folks, in addition to all your other foibles.

walter said...

Dark Brandon Biden and Fricking Fracking Fetty in 2023!!!!

wildswan said...

"Josephbleau said...
We propose a new standard of abortion term. When a woman becomes pregnant there is a physical human change that occurs to prepare the female human subject for the generation and sustenance of the creature. This distorts the body of the female from her unimpregnated state.

So there is a period where the bodily form of the female will be minimally changed by the hormonal processes of pregnancy. We propose, then, that abortion be allowed prior to distortions of the female body due to the imposed changes of natural pregnancy."

I'm spending a lot of time trying to get a clear picture of human development; I thought I knew but there have been advances. Anyhow, I know this. Your mother's body did not change substantially during your first five days of life. Sometime around the fifth day you, who were a little round ball of about 250 cells, implanted yourself on the side of the womb. You formed a connection between her endometrial cells and about eight of yours on one side of the ball in order to gain nourishment. This connection took hold in your case and you then sent a signal using the hCG protein which your mother's body interpreted as meaning that she should change the estrogen/progesterone balance in her body so that she would stop ripening eggs and stop sloughing off the endometrium lining the side of the womb where you were attached. These hormonal changes are quite substantial in that they meant that your mother did not have her period, a substantial bodily change for a women. But this change could not be the point at which abortions became illegal since during the five days when abortion would be legal under that standard there is no sign that conception has occurred. There was no sign you were there till you sent out your "j'y suis, j'y reste" message via hCG. So no one could have arranged to have you killed.

wildswan said...

Inga
The part you haven't explained is how one human being gets the right to kill another in this situation. Once you acknowledge that you are talking about another human being that question immediately comes up. Abortion was sold to the public as acceptable because it was said, "the product of conception" was not human yet. And to this day millions think in some vague way that there's a period when "it's not human yet." But you acknowledge that we are talking about another human being, one which for some reason, like a slave, has no rights. Why not?

Saint Croix said...

When a woman becomes pregnant there is a physical human change that occurs to prepare the female human subject for the generation and sustenance of the creature. This distorts the body of the female from her unimpregnated state.

If I'm reading you right, you're talking about implantation. That's the moment the zygote implants in the uterus. When that happens, mom's body starts producing the pregnancy hormone.

That's actually the point Texas tried to defend in the Roe v. Wade litigation. They went with implantation rather than conception, because they had a major problem with conception as a legal point.

No human being knows when conception happens. God is the only one who knows.

You can't prosecute anybody for the death of a zygote because the prosecutor could never prove that a zygote existed. This is why I have long-argued that Griswold should be read to protect emergency contraception. That's especially handy for rape victims.

I beg any woman who is raped to go to the emergency room and have a doctor take care of you. And if you don't want to do that, swallow two birth control pills. (My understanding of "Plan B" is that it is essentially two birth control pills).

My belief is that states should recognize the humanity of unborn children and apply our death statutes to the issue, and outlaw any abortion that qualifies as a homicide under state law.

(I actually believe the Constitution requires this).

The current standard for death in all 50 states is total brain death. If you have any brain activity, you are a live human being.

Brain activity in the unborn starts six weeks after conception, or eight weeks after mom's last menstrual period. (Heartbeat is earlier than brain activity). Of course states have flexibility to define when people die, but whatever law they adopt should apply to all people within the state.

I would like to outlaw all abortions, but that might not be politically feasible. To me the critical thing is to get our people to see the humanity of our unborn children, and take homicide off the table.

I also think every sex ed class should teach this documentary.

Inga said...

“Inga
The part you haven't explained is how one human being gets the right to kill another in this situation. Once you acknowledge that you are talking about another human being that question immediately comes up. Abortion was sold to the public as acceptable because it was said, "the product of conception" was not human yet. And to this day millions think in some vague way that there's a period when "it's not human yet." But you acknowledge that we are talking about another human being, one which for some reason, like a slave, has no rights. Why not?”

If you want to liken it to slavery, who is the slave? Mother or child? Does the not yet viable child have more rights to the woman’s womb than the women herself? Why does this not yet viable child have more rights than the mother? Choose, who gets their rights protected, the already born adult human or the not yet viable child in utero?

Again, I don’t want any woman to have an abortion, but I don’t have the right or the power to stop her while the child is not yet viable and depends on the mother’s organs, blood, nutrients to survive this period on non viability.