"The concubines were removed from the Ottoman court after Mahmud II's death in 1839 and she was married to the imam of a local mosque."
Said Dr. Oz, back in 2012, quoted in "Dr Oz, Meryl Streep related through Ottoman harem."
He said he learned about the common ancestry after Meryl Streep said "What's up cousin?" to him and, we're told, a DNA test confirmed the story, which I originally encountered at the Wikipedia page for Oz.
Who are the Circassians?
The Circassians... are an indigenous Northwest Caucasian ethnic group and nation native to the historical country-region of Circassia in the North Caucasus. As a consequence of the Circassian genocide, which was perpetrated by the Russian Empire in the 19th century during the Russo-Circassian War, most Circassians were exiled from their homeland in Circassia to modern-day Turkey and the rest of the Middle East, where the majority of them are concentrated today. The Unrepresented Nations and Peoples Organization estimated in the early 1990s that there are as many as 3.7 million Circassians in diaspora in over 50 countries
Posts
50 comments:
Turkish ancestry makes him a POC, right?
Circassians have remarkably good rhythm...for Caucasians.
T.E. Lawrence tried to infiltrate Deraa by passing as a Circassian, but was caught and (allegedly) sodomized by the local Turkish commander. As always with anything Lawrence, there is a lot of deliberate uncertainty about the truth of any matter.
An old painting called “inspection of the new arrivals” by Rosati shows nude Circassian women being inspected by Muslim merchants. Circassian Beauties where very desirable to fill harems. The original sexual human trafficking. Oz and Streep look like brother and sister.
I wonder if this will get him any votes. To me the Circassians sound like a semi criminal race in old Star Trek shows.
Oz is a Turkish citizen. He has a Turkish passport. He votes (or has on occasion) in Turkish elections.
How can anyone be OK with a Turkish citizen running for any US elective office, especially senate?
How can anyone be OK with this?
If elected will he recuse himself from discussing, working on or voting on anything turkey related?
He has promised to give p his Turkish but only if elected. It will be interesting to see if he does.
He was born in the us so is a full 14th amendment citizen. No question about that.
But am I the only one who has a problem with dual citizenship? Both in general and in this specific case?
I also have problems with Ted Cruz and kamala Harris. Cruz did formally renounce his Canadian citizenship but not til it became a pr issue in 2015. Kamala, born in California, never has renounced her Jamaican citizenship AFAIK.
John stop fascism vote republican Henry
Did Lawrence view the sodomy as a perk or a punishment?
John stop fascism vote republican
Don’t know much about Circassian’s but that concubine thing looks interesting . Where can I get one? Are they on Amazon?
@exhelodrvr1 wrote: "Turkish ancestry makes him a POC, right?"
Yep, I'd say. Jews are technically Middle-Eastern North African (MENA), and the Spanish have high percentages of MENA ancestry too. Research shows that MENA often do identify as a distinct "other-than-White" group if given the opportunity on a race/ethnicity survey.
But, the POC identity rules change with voting patterns. The Chinese and Japanese were explicitly banned from California about 100 years ago as non-White, but some using POC-speak today call them "White Adjacent." They are too economically successful to be a POC...so "they too perpetuate systemic racism"... In contrast, some Hispanics are totally, 100%, honestly White Europeans but get lumped into POC because of assumed voting patterns for Spanish speakers.
Through the looking glass we go.
"Oz is a Turkish citizen. He has a Turkish passport. He votes (or has on occasion) in Turkish elections. How can anyone be OK with a Turkish citizen running for any US elective office, especially senate?"
Obama was born with dual citizenship. Did he take action to end it? It's not an easy question to research.
Now, Oz chose to serve in the Turkish military for 6 months, which he needed to do to avoid losing his Turkish citizenship, so, as an adult, he actively preserved his dual citizenship.
Who are the Circassians?
I hear they have great rhythm.
Dang Bob went there first!
What I read is the citizenship allows him to care for his elderly mother there. As I recall Obama ignored his foreign siblings and had no interest in the old country, except as material to loosely base his biography on.
Mike,
I thought that sounded like a bullshit reason (on his part, not yours)
I just looked into it and it is not as bullshit as I first thought.
https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2022/09/dr-oz-explains-kept-turkish-citizenship-care-mother-give-video/
I sympathize with him on this and now see why he didn't want to give up the citizenship unless he won.
I guess I can live with this. I don't like it but can understand it.
I still find the idea of dual citizenship deplorable, especially for a senator.
We do need to hold his feet to the fire to renounce if he wins.
John stop fascism vote republican Henry
“ Circassians have remarkably good rhythm...for Caucasians.”
What… in/out in/out in/out in/out?
Did Lawrence view the sodomy as a perk or a punishment?
(T)ight (E)nd Lawrence? (W)ide (R)eceiver Lawrence?
Tellingly, he remained T.E. for the remainder of his life…
Dual citizenship is American. Our people all came from elsewhere and it's romantic to link to the Olde Countrye. It's not about actively participating. Lord knows I want nothing to do with Irish politics.
missing context
Circassians were Christian until conquered by various Muslim groups
Now, Oz chose to serve in the Turkish military for 6 months, which he needed to do to avoid losing his Turkish citizenship, so, as an adult, he actively preserved his dual citizenship.
A good friend and medical school classmate emigrated from Iran when the Shah was in power. Years later, when he was married and had children, he wanted to visit his parents who were still living in Tehran. The whole family flew to Tehran and he was met by the SAVAK at the airport. They quizzed him and told him he could stay and see his parents if he agreed to serve one year in the Iranian military. He agreed and spent a year as a doctor in Iran oil fields. There he learned to play golf, which he has continued ever since. There they had oiled sand greens and carried a piece of Astroturf to use on the fairway.
This, of course, was before the 1979 revolution so I doubt he would be welcome now.
Streep, descended from whores, got rich by whoring herself out to Harvey Weinstein, aka "God."
Just another old white dude. Jeez.
I have a map cartoon in my mind for these unknown areas where conflicts keep happening.
The Black Sea is a rectangle. At the top is Ukraine, at the bottom Turkey. In previous maps, the Russian Empire was at the top and the Turkish Empire was at the bottom.
The two Empires fought over the two sides of the Black Sea rectangle. At the left bottom half, in the west is Constantinople and the strait from the Mediterranean to the Black Sea, including Gallipoli. At the top left half of the rectangle is the Balkan peninsula. Here are (or were) all those small Christian countries you don't know where they are: Croatia, Kosovo, Bosnia-Herzogovina, Serbia, Bulgaria, Moldava, Transnistria, Slovenia, Albania, Montenegro, (and obsolete place names: Thessaly, Thessalonica, Macedonia, Yugoslovia).
On the other side of the Black Sea rectangle is the Cossack area of Russia at the top, the Caucasus Mountains in the middle and Georgia and Armenia at the bottom. In or near the Caucasus Mountains are all those small Muslim countries you don't know where they are: Ingushetia, Chechnya, Dagestan, Azerbaijan, Abkhazia, Cherkessk, Adygia. The Ottomans seized slaves whenever any small Christian area on either side of the Black Sea lost a battle. The Circassian area was here for awhile resisting the Ottomans, losing, women being enslaved. Now the Circassian are gone, one to Philadelphia. Probably has a balanced view of Turkey.
[After the Black Sea rectangle comes the Caspian Sea rectangle whose right or eastern side has all the "stans, you don't know where they are: Kazakhstan, Kyrgystan, Turkmenistan, Tajikistan, Uzbekistan, Afghanistan. On the top side of the Caspian rectangle, to the north, is Russia, on the bottom side, Iran.]
After that, the China rectangle.
In short, Russia has borders with several areas with varied histories relating to the Ottoman, Chinese, German and Austro-Hungarian empires v. the Russian Empire and Putin hopes to dominate them all as Russia once did, though Russia is losing population, not gaining by natural increase as it once did. Who else has been acting like that in the 21st century? Who else wants their empire back? And Russian culture is unattractive, proudly featuring as it does, the razing of cities and villages to the ground, looting, rape, torture chambers and mass deportations. It can't spread into empire, naturally. But until now Russia was going after little places, no one know where they were. Transnistria?
The Ukraine, a somewhat larger area than the others Russia is bullying, is resisting this encroachment like Jonah in the whale and, fighting for itself, is fighting for us all. Though we don't know where it is, we can know what it is and support it.
Circassian women were big in Russian lit. They gave the dark-eyed gypsy wenches real competition.
Also a part of Ottoman culture were the Janissaries. Christian children were taken from their parents and converted and raised to become soldiers in the Ottoman armies. Some became civil servants and some became rich and powerful, and like the Roman Praetorian guard the Janissaries became a threat to emperors who didn't give them what they wanted.
His religion is a bigger issue with me than his dual citizenship.
What a choice. A Muslim or Caligula's horse.
'...but was caught and (allegedly) sodomized by the local Turkish commander.'
I think Lawrence was used to that sort of thing.
Now do Paul Pelosi...
Blogger Kate said...
"Dual citizenship is American. Our people all came from elsewhere and it's romantic to link to the Olde Countrye."
Is that or should that be true? I was born in Ohio. Being a native of Ohio, am I not a native American? All of my ancestors weren't born here, but nobody's were. We are all from Sumatra or the Fertile Crescent or where ever the archeologists decide.
American citizenship should have some value. The dual citizenship for a national leader is uncomfortable, and is worth discussing.
Americans do have a romantic fondness for our heritage.
Obama was born with dual citizenship. Did he take action to end it? It's not an easy question to research.
It's OK when the good guys do it.
Circassians? Weren't they the bad guys on "Star Trek: Deep Space Nine"?
Obama was born with dual citizenship. Did he take action to end it? It's not an easy question to research.
It's OK when the good guys do it.
Circassians? Weren't they the bad guys on "Star Trek: Deep Space Nine"?
Obama was born with dual citizenship. Did he take action to end it? It's not an easy question to research.
It's OK when the good guys do it.
Circassians? Weren't they the bad guys on "Star Trek: Deep Space Nine"?
Obama was born with dual citizenship. Did he take action to end it? It's not an easy question to research.
It's OK when the good guys do it.
Circassians? Weren't they the bad guys on "Star Trek: Deep Space Nine"?
Obama was born with dual citizenship. Did he take action to end it? It's not an easy question to research.
It's OK when the good guys do it.
Circassians? Weren't they the bad guys on "Star Trek: Deep Space Nine"?
Obama was born with dual citizenship. Did he take action to end it? It's not an easy question to research.
It's OK when the good guys do it.
Circassians? Weren't they the bad guys on "Star Trek: Deep Space Nine"?
Obama was born with dual citizenship. Did he take action to end it? It's not an easy question to research.
It's OK when the good guys do it.
Circassians? Weren't they the bad guys on "Star Trek: Deep Space Nine"?
Obama was born with dual citizenship. Did he take action to end it? It's not an easy question to research.
It's OK when the good guys do it.
Circassians? Weren't they the bad guys on "Star Trek: Deep Space Nine"?
Obama was born with dual citizenship. Did he take action to end it? It's not an easy question to research.
It's OK when the good guys do it.
Circassians? Weren't they the bad guys on "Star Trek: Deep Space Nine"?
Obama was born with dual citizenship. Did he take action to end it? It's not an easy question to research.
It's OK when the good guys do it.
Circassians? Weren't they the bad guys on "Star Trek: Deep Space Nine"?
Obama was born with dual citizenship. Did he take action to end it? It's not an easy question to research.
It's OK when the good guys do it.
Circassians? Weren't they the bad guys on "Star Trek: Deep Space Nine"?
Obama was born with dual citizenship. Did he take action to end it? It's not an easy question to research.
It's OK when the good guys do it.
Circassians? Weren't they the bad guys on "Star Trek: Deep Space Nine"?
EDIT: I'm gonna keep posting this over and over until it goes through!
As a rule, I'm not in favor of dual citizenship. One problem is, other countries grant it in a way that someone may be a dual citizen and not even be aware.
There are a few ways to give up US citizenship. Accepting a commission as an officer in another country is one. Suspended during both WWI and WWII as many of our aviators fought in Eupre and other theaters of operation. A few years back a professor from a local university ran for and won an elective position in his original country- he was a naturaized citizen. A clear case of volutarily renouncing his citizenship. He was welcomed back into the university with acclaim following his term as a wondeful example of diversity instead of having his citizenship stripped from him.
We allow foreign citizens to serve in out military. They can get out at any time by simply asking. And if they do so, they are forever banned from citizenship. AS a career counselor art one training site, I aided in processing a few of those. Most were s--tbirds and no great loss. We had a small backlog at one time when one of the JAG lawyers wasn't processing the applications because- he didn't think it was right they could walk away from their obligations. A short vist from us to the CO, a phone call from him, and the backlog disappeared... Only one that I processed was for what we in the office thought was a good reason. When asked why- "My family was killed by communist guerillas. I'm going back to enlist in the army and kill communists." But every few years there appears a case where someone says they weren't aware of that provision, that they were young and dumb. To date, courts have upheld the law. I know that when we did it, the applicant signed at least 3 seperate times, at three levels of witnesses, starting with us, that they understood this.
What I got from the story above is a reminder that we live today only a generation or two removed from vile human depravity on a vast scale, which happened in places we today consider decent and modern and civilized. And that today's vile, vast cultural depravities need to be reformed into something better, so that future generations may live with better folk than those with whom we are forced to share the planet.
Pick your own vile, vastly depraved region or people and get to work destroying it so the future need not live with it.
Dual citizenship can be imposed and not sought. I was born a US citizen whose parents were US citizens, as were their parents. My parents chose to immigrate to Canada while I was still a child. When they finally became Canadian citizens, I was still a minor and became a citizen of Canada, as far as Canada was concerned. The US, at that time didn't recognize dual citizenship, at least not in a common place way.
As time went by, I returned to the US in the 80's as an adult and worked for a company requiring a Secet clearance from the US government, which I received. This required a historical summary of my young life and my parents life up to that time. Secret clearances require that you be a US citizen. Later in my career (still in the 80's), I needed an upgraded clearance to work on a project. The shit hit the fan at that point as some clerk noticed that my parents were Canadian citizens and claimed that I must also be a Canadian citizen and therefore could not be a US citizen and therefore could not have a secret clearance much less the upgraded secret clearance.
Life was in turmoil for short while as all my clearances were suspended while they sorted things out. The outcome was I was indeed a US citizen and all my clearances were unsuspended. It was recommended that I get a US passport so that I had "proof" of US citizenship. I did, and had no problems from that point forward.
Fast forward to 2020 when I needed to visit my father in Canada befor he died from cancer. Canada was only allowing citizens into the country at that point. I still had my certificte of Canadian citizenship from way back when and was allowed to go into Canada. Unfortunately my dad died while I was still in the 2 week quarantine.
So... For a long time I was a US citizen when US didn't recognize dual citizenship but also a Canadian citizen, as far as Canada was concerned I could have both. These days, both US and Canada recognize dual citizenship.
Brought or bought? The modern model of slavery was a progressive process in the Eurasian region, stretching to Asia, Arabia, and Africa, with exports... immigration reform to the New World.
I got circumcised by a Circassian, and it threw off my circadian rhythm.
It's interesting that Dr. Oz should choose a great-grandmother's alleged ethnicity as his identity. My father's parents were both German, and I call myself a Kraut when it suits me, but that's just a loose claim to a particular ancestral background. (Just like I'm a Confederate on my mother's side.)
When I was starting as a staff smurf in the university library, one of my student workers was an Armenian from Turkey. His father had been in the Turkish foreign service, but they were Christians. The young fellow in fact became Mesrob (pope-patriarch) of (one of?) the Armenian Christian sect(s) in Turkey. Died a few years ago. Didn't really have much Turkish identity AFAICT, though I think he had to do a term in the army.
A friend of mine, Greek on his mother's side, says he avoided traveling to Greece because Greek law allowed the state to conscript descendants of Greeks on their territory regardless of citizenship . . . It's so weird there's a good chance it's true.
Just to be clear on this, Circassians that were "brought" to Istanbul (formerly Constantinople) were Christians taken as slaves by the stinking Muslims. I guess it's OK when they do it.
It's interesting that Dr. Oz should choose a great-grandmother's alleged ethnicity as his identity
WTF? Oz’s mother is also Turkish. That’s why he has duel citizenship. This isn’t family lore.
I think Lawrence was used to that sort of thing.
He might in some way have wanted to, but I doubt he actually gave in to the urge. He did enjoy being beaten, though.
If his mother's great-granny was a Circassian, she would be only 1 of (excuse me a moment . . .) sixteen of his ancestors. If that's his connection, it seems kind of slim.
But maybe he needs to sew up the Circassian vote.
He said he learned about the common ancestry after Meryl Streep said "What's up cousin?" to him
Meryl Streep is very smart.
Not a feminist, she's a humanist.
She's also a little chicken and backed right back up to feminism when confronted by the ugly mob.
She's not brave, I didn't call her brave.
Bjork is brave. That little girl said "Free Tibet!" in a concert in fucking China.
Streep is a smart little chicken.
Kramer v. Kramer is an interesting humanist movie where (I think) we're supposed to pull for the dad to get the kid in the divorce proceeding.
(Would that movie be made today?!)
In the scene where Dustin Hoffman smacks the wine glass, Streep had no idea he was going to do that. Scared the shit out of her. (Of course!)
Not really improvised, Hoffman told the cameraman what he was going to do, to make sure he captured the moment. He just didn't tell Streep!
But that's how improv works because it's a hell of a lot easier to act in the moment if you're shocked or surprised. Improv is awesome. It was improv for Streep but planned by Hoffman.
Men's rights activists probably watch Kramer vs. Kramer two or three times a year and cry in the right fucking places. Dude.
If I was Humanist Judge I would sentence all the Feminist Judges to watching Kramer vs. Kramer. And write me a fucking paper on it too.
But you know that indoctrination shit doesn't work. I'd be reading papers on how evil Kramer vs. Kramer is. The Patriarch in Kramer vs. Kramer. And I'd be like B+ for that shit. No A for you!
They would be all, "You're cruel but I don't think you're neutral!"
And I'd be all, "the Swiss can kiss my ass."
Post a Comment