"When I compare Mr. Musk, Mr. Trump and Ye, I see a convergence of personalities that were once distinct. The garish celebrity playboy, the obsessive engineer and the young artist, as different from one another as they could be, have all veered not in the direction of becoming grumpy old men, but into being bratty little boys in a schoolyard.... I believe 'Twitter poisoning' is a real thing. It is a side effect that appears when people are acting under an algorithmic system that is designed to engage them to the max. It’s a symptom of being part of a behavior-modification scheme.... Behavioral changes occur as a side effect of something called operant conditioning...."
From "Trump, Musk and Kanye Are Twitter Poisoned" by Jaron Lanier (NYT). Lanier is a computer scientist and author of “Ten Arguments for Deleting Your Social Media Accounts Right Now.”
In early operant conditioning, pioneered by famous behaviorists like B.F. Skinner, animals were given positive and negative feedback in the form of treats and electric shocks.... People receive little positive and negative jolts of social feedback....
[A]lgorithms that optimized the individualized advertising model found their way into it automatically, unintentionally rediscovering methods that had been tested on dogs and pigeons....
Instead of being above it all, like traditional strongmen throughout history, the modern social media-poisoned alpha male whines and frets.
Lanier began by homing in on 3 men — Trump, Musk, and Ye — and now he's broadening his view — but it's still about men — alpha men....
This works because his followers are similarly poisoned and can relate so well....
... and beta men.
When we were children, we all had to negotiate our way through the jungle of human power relationships at the playground. When we feel those old humiliations, anxieties and sadisms again as adults — over and over, because the algorithm has settled on that pattern as a powerful way to engage us — habit formation restimulates old patterns that had been dormant. We become children again, not in a positive, imaginative sense, but in a pathetic way. Twitter poisoning makes sufferers feel more oppressed than is reasonable in response to reasonable rules. The scope of fun is constricted to transgressions....
Lanier never says I'm only talking about males relating to males, but that is what he's doing. Maybe he'd say something similar goes on with females, but he doesn't — and shouldn't — make that claim.
***
By the way, this got me thinking about the much-discussed question what it means to claim to be a woman when you were born with the anatomy of a man. I've been trying make my way through Joe Rogan's podcast with Matt Walsh. Walsh made that movie "What is a woman?" which shows various people flummoxed when asked to say what it means to be a woman. It's a 3-hour podcast, so that's a long journey. I'm more than halfway through, but it's easy to understand Walsh's point: If people can't specify what, other than anatomy, defines womanhood, then anatomy must define womanhood.
It seems to me that Lanier offers a path to an answer. Not that he intends to. He seems to be haplessly talking about people without noticing (or admitting) that he's only talking about men:
When we were children, we all had to negotiate our way through the jungle of human power relationships at the playground. When we feel those old humiliations, anxieties and sadisms again as adults....
We?
... grumpy old men... bratty little boys in a schoolyard....
I'm not identifying with this.
35 comments:
I am not sure how much of it is due to the massive propaganda campaign against all three affecting his judgment, but yeah, it’s a good idea to delete Twitter unless you have a business reason with narrow goals and a lot of self discipline.
I agree with Lanier about "Twitter poisoning". It's why I left the site. However -- sigh -- it's always those dastardly right-wingers who are subject. If he includes more men later, are any of them of the Left? (Say, Alec Baldwin.)
His comment about B. F. Skinner screams Junior Psychologist. I do wish someone with expertise would publish a real dig into social media and how it's changing us.
He's saying "we" where he means "I."
Lanier is a computer scientist and author of “Ten Arguments for Deleting Your Social Media Accounts Right Now.”
Something tells me this guy is not a disinterested observer.
However -- sigh -- it's always those dastardly right-wingers who are subject.
There's no problem that can't be solved by attacking "right-wingers"!
I had some conversations with Jaron Lanier on Usenet in the late 80s early 90s.mainly about virtual reality. He was an early advocate and pioneer.
But he was always a bit of a crackpot. Most visionaries are.
As long as he chooses only to examine his political adversaries and ignores the same behavior on his own side, his analysis is just disguised politics.
The nonsense about "alpha males" is a little embarrassing. We all know that Kathy Griffin posed with Trump's bloody head, and that Pelosi's daughter celebrated the assault on Rand Paul. Are they alpha males? It's hard not to conclude that this guy is singling out alpha males because that's who beat him up in school.
it's Neat, how you can Usually pick if this clip is going to be from the NYTs, or the WaPoo
These leftist totalitarians are doing all they can to destroy Musk.
The NYT/WaPO media elites cannot handle any territorial disruption of the 100% left-wing guardians controlling the social media narrative.
Ye - screwed the pooch with his anti-semitism. Trump is Trump - and he is screwing the pooch by attacking the future of the GOP. So now the left want to promote Trump and keep Trump in the game and on top of everyone's minds. Trump would be most helpful if he went away.
Now do Taylor Lorenz.
Delete Facebook.
Is there any evidence that these three evil men watch tictoc other than in passing or at all?
Junk psychology.
We should go after tik-tik.
The Chinese govt propaganda site. MUCH more of a problem than Twitter
John Henry
Support the LGBTQ agenda. Let's get Biden to quit
What happened to Russians stealing our elections and our democracy?
Never having been on Twitter, I have no dog in this fight but I do think the younger generation has lost a lot to "social media." By younger (almost everybody is younger than me), I mean the generation that looks at screens all day. Attention span is the first thing to go. Hence, less to no reading.
I see nothing in the brief excerpt about celebrity wackos on twitter, e.g. Rob Reiner, Bette Midler. Does this mean that they were wacky pre-twitter, that Lanier is another biased NYT schlub or both.
Funny how some questions answer themselves.
Lanier is more than just “a computer scientist”. He is the genius who invented virtual reality. Politically he is a left-wing extremist. Keep both those facts in mind when you read his screeds.
When everything signals the End of the World, I gotta remember it's only the end As We Know It, and I gotta remember to Feel Fine also. (my philosophy of blog comment)
My hunch is paying for twitter is going to serve as a moderating influence. Sanity will prevail.
""When I compare Mr. Musk, Mr. Trump and Ye, I see a convergence of personalities that were once distinct. The garish celebrity playboy, the obsessive engineer and the young artist, "
The changing up between the names and the descriptions bothers me. And I'm not even a grammar Nazi. But if you didn't know Musk, Trump and Ye, you'd not know who was the engineer, playboy and artist. To me, the need to change up the description reveals the writer's emotional bias and compromise.
When we were children, we all had to negotiate our way through the jungle of human power relationships at the playground. When we feel those old humiliations, anxieties and sadisms again as adults....
Mean Girls was not just a movie.
Twitter facilitates middle school girl power dynamics, not males, who move quickly to physical aggression. But girls are catty, continue the social harassment, etc.
Jordan Peterson give a summary in this short.
https://youtu.be/UxrGA60hMRA
Trump and Musk (don't know much about Ye) push back and that throws off those trying to work the middle school girl war dynamic. And they are willing to risk social approbation which the fear of is what powers the middle school girl aggression.
"People see rock 'n' roll as, as youth culture and when youth culture becomes monopolized by big business, what are the youth to do? Do you, do you have any idea? I think we should destroy the bogus capitalist process that is destroying youth culture" - Thurston Moore of Sonic Youth
We tend to worry about the wrong things.
Hunter Biden's tax payer funded Hooker said...
What happened to Russians stealing our elections and our democracy?
You and the democrats just decided to skip the middle men and attack Trump directly.
"into being bratty little boys in a schoolyard"
Including a genius entrepreneur who started several successful companies and became the richest person ever. Bratty, little, right.
Althouse's feminist radar correctly picks up the "we." The fact that she does not identify, quite understandably, indicates that Walsh is wrong: anatomy is not the whole story.
How many alpha women--are there any?--became successful billionaires without getting their $$$ from fathers or husbands? Top ten richest American women all got theirs from men. Some are good business people (Abigail Johnson), but still.
Is this why I brag about the fact that I have never owned a cell phone?
Maybe he'd say something similar goes on with females, but he doesn't — and shouldn't — make that claim.
Shouldn't because he's a man or shouldn't because it's not true?
I'm going to opine anyway, in spite of what my gender may be. There's a very similar dynamic among women, but it tends to focus less on the lone individual and more on the coven. Men get drawn to extremes thinking that they are standing out from the group. Women tend to be drawn to extremes as part of a group. They can go very far, but because they are part of a group, nobody stands out and becomes vulnerable.
Or maybe it's that women who are Twitter poisoned aren't usually earth shakers. More like Bette Midler or Ellen Barkin or Rosanna Arquette, alone at night in the big house with just a bottle of wine and an internet connection. But what about the alpha women? Ann Coulter is a topic today. Isn't she Twitter poisoned? And there are more and more alpha women, or at least exhibitionist women, every day. Joy Reid may or may not be alpha, but she and Tiffany Cross -- Twitter poisoned?
Also, I'd say that Trump, Musk, and West represent three different ways of getting to a similar point. Trump was always a showman and a show-off. He used the tabloids as a precursor to Twitter to attract attention to himself. Twitter may have pulled him over the edge, but the underlying behavior was always there. Kanye has a psychological or psychiatric condition. He'd be acting out in other ways if there were no social media. You could say that Musk was legitimately Twitter poisoned. Social media brought out something in him that might otherwise have stayed under control.
I must be using twitter wrong. Seems more like a self curated group blog. The only time I see comments by someone I don't follow is when someone I do follow retweets someone else, or after clicking on a tweet.
The dreaded algorithm is irrelevant if the settings are "Latest tweets" (chronological order).
Like the rest of the internet (and unlike meatspace), anything perceived as unpleasant can simply be ignored.
You lost me at, "grumpy old men."
“. . . when you were born with the anatomy of a man.”
I’m just going to say it. If you’re born with the anatomy of a man, you’re a man.
all veered not in the direction of becoming grumpy old men, but into being bratty little boys in a schoolyard.... I believe 'Twitter poisoning' is a real thing.
Physician heal thyself. Alas, he's just doing what people on social media do; drop a few names and say something controversial to get attention. The value of the commentary need not be high.
Musk. Maker of the best-looking, most popular ELECTRIC car is on a shit list because he took over someone's sacred sniping ground.
Ann, the genetic females in my Catholic elementary school certainly 'negotiated [their] way through the jungle of human power relationships at the playground' along with us genetic males. The girls were usually the top predators of that jungle, the arbitrators of relationships and the definers of status and even the dispensers of purple nurples, Indian burns and nooggies. Catholic girls are not to be dismissed, they are formidable.
I have been leaving my cell phone at home, or in the car when in restaurants, and it’s a better experience. I am happy that I don’t have to drive the Northway with no phone and risk freezing to death after sliding out of sight over an embankment in a snowstorm at night, but it easily becomes more of a master than a servant.
Not sure that I could go back to car radio from Spotify on Bluetooth, but I have even been experimenting with that.
Kanye is 45, that’s middle aged not young.
Kanye has some mental problems but he also has made some great music (it’s not my taste but it’s very good).
And Kanye is a performance artist. Just like Bowie.
MAGA Kanye is Ziggy Stardust or The Thin White Duke.
Kanye has jumped performance art from the music arenas to the rest of the world. It’s no mystery why he & Trump have gravitated toward each other. Performance Art.
Musk is a bit of a character as well. Howard Hughes washed through the Hudsucker Proxy and then rinsed in Office Space.
The combination of creativity, celebrity, and success powers their three-man hot air balloon.
It’s astonishing that anyone so weird as any of them could achieve such importance. That three of them have contemporaneously seems like the work of the Greek Gods.
Reminds me of what Roger Scruton pointed out: 'Moderns' tend to keep forgetting our traditions and the past are also reflections of who we are.
As Faulkner pointed out, 'the past isn't dead. It's not even past.
Conveniently forgotten and ignored by those generally striving to change things (idealists/futurists/utopians etc)
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