"The documents related to the federal investigation into Russian election meddling and alleged collusion with Trump’s campaign. At the end of his presidency, Trump and his team pushed to declassify these so-called 'Russiagate' documents, believing they would expose a 'Deep State' plot against him.... It’s unclear if any of the materials in Trump’s document trove are related to Russia or the election interference investigation.... 'I think they thought it was something to do with the Russia, Russia, Russia hoax,' Trump said during a Sept. 1 radio interview. 'They were afraid that things were in there — part of their scam material.'"
In a memo to the acting attorney general and intelligence officials sent the day before Trump left office, he claimed the Justice Department had sent him a binder of materials on the FBI’s so-called “Crossfire Hurricane” investigation in late December 2020. The department sent Trump that information, he claimed, “so I could determine to what extent materials in the binder should be released in unclassified form.” The materials included “transcripts of intercepts made by the FBI of Trump aides, a declassified copy of the final FISA warrant approved by an intelligence court, and the tasking orders and debriefings of the two main confidential human sources, Christopher Steele and Stefan Halper,” according to John Solomon, Trump’s representative to the National Archives.
Trump White House Chief of staff Mark Meadows later wrote in his memoir that he “personally went through every page” of the documents to make sure the declassified portions didn’t “disclose sources and methods” and described his frustration by what he considered “push back” from the Department of Justice and FBI. Meadows and Trump worked to release the material up until “minutes before” Biden’s inauguration.
Trump sent a memo on Jan. 19 accepting the FBI’s redactions and ordering declassification.... The material was never released publicly. But in a series of podcast interviews recorded before the FBI search, former Nunes and Trump official Kash Patel shed some light on the administration’s broader plans. He claimed Trump had asked him to help retrieve and publish so-called “Russiagate” material the White House counsel’s office had sent to the National Archives in the last days of the administration.
Posts
85 comments:
As between Trump, the FBI, DOJ or Fake News, I believe Trump.
This makes sense.
Trump's mistake was having too many traitors in his midst.
He issued orders that weren't followed.
We should have seen it all before he left the WH...
This is Trump’s brush-back pitch.
It would be tough to prosecute Trump for anything after the DOJ’s Russia-hoax Insurance Policy.
Plus Hunter Biden’s bag-man work.
Any prosecution would reek of banana republic.
Trump also knows he’d lose in a re-election bid but that DeSantis would win and would pardon Trump.
as I posited in the previous thread. Russiagte secrets at Mar-a-Lago
It's been discussed that the Mar-a-Lago raid was a desperate rush to grab any materials that would reflect badly on the (a) FBI, (b)the Obama team, (c) Democrats in general, and (d) Joe Biden.
My thinking is that even if we end up with a mostly unredacted version of the order, both sides will find many things they can point to and say 'Aha!'. The media will heavily cover those that favor the Dems, etc. And cast the rest of it as proof of extremism.
The Truth of it will lie buried somewhere in a storage room. And that's how the FBI would like it.
I think Eisenhower had a line about this.
Think back to the Kavanaugh hearings and the Congressional kangaroo court hearings on Jan 6. Pot calls kettle black.
At some point voters will resent being pulled back in time to things that are already known. Political stalemate and dirty tricks. I get it. Now look to the future.
Nowhere in the article does it mention that the President has complete and unequivocal authority to declassify any and all material any time and by whatever means he wants.
Truth kills Dems so they must kill it first. Arkancide usually with MSM’s help. But the rare uncensored news source gets past the FBI cover up teams. And that damn Trump puts the pieces together like Joe Rochefort did for Nimitz.
Yeah Kash has been on cable explaining this about three weeks ago. He seems a straight shooter.
BINGO!!!
"As between Trump, the FBI, DOJ or Fake News, I believe Trump."
If you were smart, you would disbelieve Trump, too.
This does not make sense. If the documents provide evidence of a deep state plot, why didn't Trump release them earlier? Or at least leak them?
It's all BS. I don't believe the Justice Department's ever-changing justifications for the raid. And now Trump's exploiting what he thinks is a winner campaign issue.
Gee - wonder why Trump won't simply say what he took and why he took it.
mccullough said...
Trump also knows he’d lose in a re-election bid but that DeSantis would win and would pardon Trump.
Talk about wishcasting.
Trump gets more votes in the general than Desantis.
The only reason for NARA to get involved is to make records available to the public.
For some reason the NARA asked the FBI to go take stuff from Trump and hide it from the public before Trump could make it public.
OK.
That makes sense. Trump was right to predict they would never stop coming after him. Do to the nature of what they did to him… pull off the biggest theft in American history.
This seem a likely explanation, and if true reeks of a banana republic; a raid by government security forces on a political opponent of the regime to confiscate incriminating evidence of their wrongdoing.
But I fault Trump for waiting for so long. This material should have been made public years ago.
Everybody knows this was what the raid was about except dullards like Inga and Howard.
‘It's been discussed that the Mar-a-Lago raid was a desperate rush to grab any materials that would reflect badly on the (a) FBI, (b)the Obama team, (c) Democrats in general, and (d) Joe Biden.’
That seems most likely. The few leaked morsels don’t amount to anything other than clickbait. If they had anything of substance, they’d be proceeding differently.
Ya know....maybe this is conspiracy theory stuff here, but let me posit two scenarios:
1) The FBI looks at Trump's materials in June as noted on the affidavit and elsewhere. They notice classified and secret markings and folders and they instruct him to better secure the room. Despite these observations, nothing appears to happen besides Trump affirming receipt of their instructions (through his lawyer). Suddenly, ~8 weeks later they decide something they saw represents an urgent issue. They get a search warrant then take the weekend before executing it. They also pursue a.....legally questionable judge....for an unprecedented search warrant. All on the basis of urgent national security interests.
or
2) Some low level FBI folks look over Trumps records on a referral from NARA. Weeks pass by and what they saw him have at Mar-A-Lago starts circulating internally within the FBI. Suddenly, someone at a very high lvel within the FBI flags something those agents saw on hand as a major issue for the FBI. They escalate it within the DOJ, get a warrant, take the weekend to execute it (because there is nothing urgent from a national security interest present), and then begin leaking like crazy to the press to hurt Trump.
...
I always follow the actions and not the words. I'm not saying #2 is legitimate, but I am saying the actions and timelines do not support an urgent national security issue but DO support that the FBI suddenly decided there's something they urgently need to get their hands on and control and in the process they need to publicly damage the credibility of those they are acting against.
The Organs must make it clear to all citizens that nobody is immune to their predations. What better example than FP Trump?
"We control the vertical, we control the horizontal."
And Rolling Stone being a liberal rag, I suspect they think this revelation- which doesn't come as asurprise to anyone here- will somehow make Trump look guilty of something.
It does quite the opposite. Makes it look exactky like the FBI is intent on covering up their misdeeds. Especially since it's the Russiagate players who were all involved in instigating the unprecedented banana republic raid on a former POTUS. Using a known anti-Trump magitsrate to issue the search warrant. It would have a little more believability there might have been some nefarious criminal activity by Trump if there was enough in that redacted warrant to get an appointed and approved by the senate known pro-Trump judge to sign off on it. Optics, all about the optics.
That the warrant was so heavily redacted doesn't scream out "Hey! Trump is guilty!" From everything I've seen in my 67 year life, warrants like that aren't served on high profile people without an arrest occurring almost simultaneously.
Trump and/or the Justice Department should clarify how much the raid on his home was related to RussiaGate.
* Was a significant portion of the classified documents in Trump's home related to RussiaGate?
* In particular, were the Top Secret documents related to RussiaGate?
* Had Trump tried to declassify those RussiaGate documents while he was President?
* Why have the RussiaGate documents never been declassified?
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The main reason why the FBI obtained a FISA warrant against Carter Page was to seize his communications -- past, present and future. Page was an US citizen who had done business in Russia for many years. For sure, the FISA warrant enabled the FBI to seize all his communications with all foreigners.
I do not know to what extent the FBI was allowed to seize his communications also with US citizens.
=======
The FBI had tried also to get a FISA warrant against Alfa Bank. I do not know if that FISA warrant was granted.
If the FBI did get a FISA warrant against Alfa Bank, then it would be able to search for all transactions involving Trump's relatives and associates.
=======
I think that many or all of the Top Secret documents that Trump had in his home were related to FBI and NSA seizures of communications based on the RussiaGate FISA warrants.
It's reasonable to speculate that the fundamental reason for the raid on Trump's home was to confiscate Trump's documents related to RussiaGate.
=======
The US Government and Trump should clarify this situation.
A good place to start would be to explain why the US Government still has not declassified its RussiaGate documents. Perhaps the reason is that John Durham still is investigating and prosecuting and therefore wants the documents to remain classified for a while longer. If that is the reason, then the US Government should say so.
"It’s unclear if any of the materials in Trump’s document trove are related to Russia"
It's not unclear at all. The FBI/DoJ has produced for a court a manifest of everything they stole from Mar-A-Lago. Papers (not classified), news clippings, photos, clothing, gifts, thousands and thousands of not-classified pieces of information. They stole this stuff because their search warrant didn't give them the power to just waltz into a private residence and take whatever the fuck they wanted.
Almost nothing on the list has anything to do with a criminal investigation and NONE of it relates to the fake Russia Hoax plan carried out by career FBI agents in the most corrupt agency in Washington, DC.
No matter. They're going to GET Donald Trump even if they have to murder him. Which they will. And they'll get away with it.
They'd better damn well hope this guy doesn't become President again. Presidents have the power to name individuals who are "clear and present" dangers to the United States of America and have those people summarily executed.
I certainly hope Donald Trump is keeping his list current. And all the other Republican candidates as well because the FBI/DoJ intends to do this same act to any Republican elected that threatens their thieving operations.
From a "3-D chess" standpoint:
1) If the documents are favorable to Trump, the media will do its best to bury them
2) Trump knows what is in those documents
3) After this fight, if the documents are unclassified, the media will have no choice but to report on their contents.
4) The web host for the originals will have the biggest hit-count on the internet that week
5) And there's nothing the Democrats or the media or the deep state will be able to do about it.
I don't blame Trump at all. They are all after him, and have been since he came down the escalator at Trump Tower. He kept the proof he needed that they don't want the world to see because then EVERYBODY would know how the Deep State Corruption is taking down America as we know it.
As I mentioned here in the comments at least once when Trump was president, Trump often seems to fulfill the Biblical book of Esther. The trap that is laid for him ends up ensnaring his enemies. I hope that this is another such case.
Now look to the future.
Can't have a future when the past is so corrupt, and the people in control today hate the people who are questioning the corruption and imprisoning them in a gulag.
I always follow the actions and not the words.
Cherchez la femme.
“ If the documents provide evidence of a deep state plot, why didn't Trump release them earlier?”
He has other ideas about timing? His timing is dependent on steps other people need to take? He’s setting a diabolical trap? You need to be a genius to deduce what’s in his long plan.
But really, he seems to play intuitively and impulsively and doesn’t seem to plan in a normal way.
That’s a way to play to win though — being unpredictable.
Both Senators Johnson and Grassley have demanded the release of the Crossfire Hurricane documents de-classified by the Jan. 19 memorandum by President Trump. They have been stonewalled by the DOJ.
But really, he seems to play intuitively and impulsively and doesn’t seem to plan in a normal way.
He plans like Don Rickles plans. Somebody who sees humor.
jim5301 at 10:59 AM
Gee - wonder why Trump won't simply say what he took and why he took it.
I too wonder that.
The reason might be that he has been a negotiator during his entire life. He habitually keeps key information secret until he really needs to use it for some potential advantage.
In other words, he might not have a clear reason right now. However, his negotiating experience has taught him a wisdom that withholding information now might provide some advantage later.
Speaking of corruption, there was a report on Fox News that Hunter and Boston mobster Whitey Bulger exchanged emails about China.
Imagine that!
But I fault Trump for waiting for so long. This material should have been made public years ago.
=============
Q : on which platform? etc.
Althouse: it doesn't take a genius to figure out Trump's game, Althouse.
Everything that he is doing now and has done in the past and will doing the future is designed to get as many otherwise intelligent people to think, say and promote crazy shit like this:
Blogger wendybar said...
Now look to the future.
Can't have a future when the past is so corrupt, and the people in control today hate the people who are questioning the corruption and imprisoning them in a gulag.
Life is hopeless completely out of your control. You have enemies everywhere whom conspire to create a very intricate and complicated plan that stays completely hidden from the general public that seeks your death and imprisonment. I am the salvation.
It's as old as time itself.
The FBI had tried also to get a FISA warrant against Alfa Bank. I do not know if that FISA warrant was granted.
=========
was it Alfa Bank who sued FBI for discovery?
“The only reason for NARA to get involved is to make records available to the public.”
“For some reason the NARA asked the FBI to go take stuff from Trump and hide it from the public before Trump could make it public.”
This leaves out a couple critical things. First, permission was grated, at the very highest levels (I.e. FJB WH), for NARA to share anything they had, including Trump papers covered, up until then by Executive Privilege, with the FBI. To make this work, Biden revoked Trump’s Executive Privilege over any documents he might have or have had. So, it is likely that the FBI has been digging through NARA documents that Trump asserted Executive Privilege over for some time now. Note - the cooperation between these two agencies was ordered (along with the revocation of Trump’s Executive Privilege) was ordered by the White House early this year. That makes it a nakedly political and partisan operation.
But by the WH ordering NARA to share with the FBI, that means that the FBI gets to keep and use any and all documents seized in the MAL raid by the FBI ostensibly subject to PRA, and that means, most everything in Trump’s possession that isn’t obviously personal. And with Biden’s revocation of Trump’s Executive Privilege, that means that NARA gets to consider anything the least bit government related during Trump’s term in office subject to PRA, and thus their jurisdiction (and shared with the FBI). The final piece is that they used a criminal statute that criminalizes removing or destroying government documents as their hook for the search warrant, justifying them vacuuming up every document even remotely related. Never mind that at the time the documents were moved from the WH to MAL, they were covered by Executive Privilege and the traditional deference given a President in deterring what was a Presidential record, subject to the PRA, and what wasn’t. Most everything from Trump’s term in office was now subject to PRA, and seizure and retention, by the FBI.
It was clever. The FBI got all of the documents they could ever want, to use against Trump, without having to prove their need for them in a search warrant. And NARA, ordered by the White House to cooperate with the FBI, goes along. If the FBI wants anything, they ask NARA for it, and NARA turns around and asks the FBI to get it for them, which they do, keeping a copy of it, because FJB ordered NARA to share.
it makes sense why the Biden administration and FBI would be so hot to trot to get those documents back since it probably shows Obama admin's attempted framing and spying on Trump.
On the issue of why didn't Trump release the documents earlier, the article says that the Justice Department sent him the binder of documents in late December 2020. It doesn't say when Trump asked for the documents.
As I recall there were some big things happening in late December 2020/early January 2021. It seems like the Justice Department tried to run out the clock. Hence Trump's "last-minute" declassification order.
But what do I know?
The FBI raid wasn't greenlighted to retrieve Russiagate documents. It the documents were crucial, Trump would've been raided months ago.
This is all part of long thought out plan, of which Adolph Biden's hate MAGA speech, was the latest piece. THe goal: Destroy Trump. He will be indicted before the midtermns, using the Documents picked up in the Raid.
You'll notice that, (just as in Trump-Russiagate), the Republicans Senators, especially the McConnell gang, are refusing to defend Trump and saying we must let the "process" to play out. Mitch knew TrumpRussiagate was bogus. He was getting all the intelligence. But he hates Trump.
Robert Cook said...
"As between Trump, the FBI, DOJ or Fake News, I believe Trump."
If you were smart, you would disbelieve Trump, too.
80 IQ smart would disbelieve Trump.
An actually intelligent person would look at what Trump said, what Trump did, and compare the two things.
This is kinda one of the main reasons I don't want him to run for President again. He had months after the election to do some important things, and he just didn't get them done. He was busy chasing the Kraken.
This was one of the most important. Now all those documents, which he thought were so important, are back in the hands of the government. He should have given them to Wikileaks right away.
Ah Howard you don't have to be a weatherman to see which way the Mar A Lago wind blows.
This Totentanz between Trump and the Deep State will probably go on until Trump dies--or Garland and Biden manage to put the Bad Orange Man behind bars. At which point an intelligent man will ask, "Who's the crook here?" I don't think the answer is "Trump".
"Gee - wonder why Trump won't simply say what he took and why he took it."
All that stuff you have in your refrigerator -- did you steal it? Why won't you just tell us everything you own, and why you own it? What are you trying to hide?
'He will be indicted before the midtermns...'
This would be one of the biggest political miscalculations in history.
This is how you get more Trump...
DNC goon squad comes to hide evidence of their corruption, quelle surprise.
It’s the same reason they seized Giuliani’s phones and computers, to keep voters from learning stuff.
Carter Page said publicly that we should ease tensions with Russia and the fix for war was already in.
You guys should really think about the stuff that has actually happened and not just nurse the opinions you are told to have. It’s your responsibility as voters.
The nuance of life while remaining viable in New York City and the District of Corruption.
Blogger Howard said...
Althouse: it doesn't take a genius to figure out Trump's game, Althouse.
Everything that he is doing now and has done in the past and will doing the future is designed to get as many otherwise intelligent people to think, say and promote crazy shit like this:
Howard, thanks for the explanation of your crazy theories. You and Inga and Fredo. The problem is that it will take the coming economic disaster to show how foolish you are.
Robert Cook said...
"As between Trump, the FBI, DOJ or Fake News, I believe Trump."
"If you were smart, you would disbelieve Trump, too."
And yet he has lied less than you have. Why would anyone believe you?
That could also mean Trump is hiding the Russia hoax related stuff.
That would put him one step ahead of the sheriff.
The DeSantis presidency is gonna be a lot of fun to watch.
If you were smart, you would disbelieve Trump, too.
Trump doesn't lie. Rather, he tells the story from his own experience, which sometimes is indeed at odds with establishable facts.
It's not intended to deceive, and that gives toeholds such that the astute can usually sort it out, Althouse among the truly astute.
That’s a way to play to win though — being unpredictable.
World class poker players change up their game to avoid being predictable.
The DOJ put their chips all in. Was Trump prepared for that move? Was he bluffing?
We will see.
You need to be a genius to deduce what’s in his long plan.
But really, he seems to play intuitively and impulsively and doesn’t seem to plan in a normal way.
I stopped believing in Trump's political genius when he allowed himself to be blindsided by the 2020 election shenanigans. Unless you're suggesting that's part of his master plan as well?
I still believe he's a media genius, though.
After being sworn in as the 38th President, Gerald Ford spoke to the nation in a television address, declaring, “My fellow Americans, our long national nightmare is over.”
Actually, the 1974 nightmare began with illegal acts by VP Spiro Agnew (income tax evasion and political corruption) and ended with Nixon's resignation caused by the Watergate scandal but sadly our national nightmare has continued with alarmingly similar events to this day.
The lines remain drawn in the sand. As Dave Mason sings it, “So let's leave it alone 'cause we can't see eye-to-eye.”
But Nick Catoggio notes in his first post at The Dispatch: “It’s not a coincidence that the mainstream media’s most vicious critics on the right are grassroots conspiracy theorists. The election was rigged, the vaccines don’t work, and the FBI planted those documents at Mar-a-Lago. The media lies, so you’re free to reject their reality and substitute your own.
[I]f you believe left-wing authoritarianism can only be fought with right-wing authoritarianism, if your first impulse upon encountering political criticism is to issue a threat, you’re in the wrong place."
So I must be in the wrong place because I just read more than 20 illogical defenses for Trump's possession of super secret documents in his obviously spy-laden Palm Beach resort where he has improperly given his own people access without proper security authorization, and likely no longer has security authorization himself; yes, Virginia, free access to government documents that he has already admitted to having stolen. Somewhere the Rule-of-Law comes into play.
This explains some of the maneuvering by Trump. He understands television and the news. His earlier efforts made sure these documents would be of public interest. Now watch the media try to hide.
@Joe Smith - the monkey wrench in the timing is Judge Cannon’s order freezing the FBI from digging through the documents they seized until they are cleared by the, still unnamed, Special Master. The upcoming elections are probably one big reason they opposed appointing a Special Master. Trump’s attorneys requested one early on, right after the raid, but the DOJ refused. Their problem is that they can’t really ask the Judge not to appoint a Special Master based on their plan to interfere with the election less than two months from now - since that rational would Implicate them in, for example, Hatch Act violations. And they are having a hard time inventing justifications for expediting the investigation, utilizing potentially privileged documents of one type or another (she pointed out that FJB’s revocation of Trump’s Executive Privilege was sketchy - suggesting that that may need more work to determine), before they can be vetted by the Special Master. That’s what Trump’s attorneys want right now - to slow down the speeding freight train that the DOJ thought was in sight of their goal. And, by all indications so, far, they seem to be succeeding. Even if they get the indictment pushed out a month, it will be too late, because it would be seen by Republicans as a grossly political, October Surprise. But I don’t think they can possibly get the indictment out before the election now, unless maybe overruled by the 11th Circuit on an emergency basis. Which I don’t see happening.
“ If the documents provide evidence of a deep state plot, why didn't Trump release them earlier?”
1. You need a platform you can trust not to take it down or block access.
2. You need a way to get the word out, which can't be blocked or corrupted.
3. You need a way to "monetize" the anger they will generate, preferably into votes rather than cash.
Shorter answer: Trump has been getting Truth Social off the ground and waiting for the right moment in 2024.
As noted by others Trump should have released it all in 2019. Trump's mistake was relying on DC insiders for advice. Barr in particular. Barr was a real illusion shatterer. Unless the DoJ has evidence to the contrary Trump took copies of the documents and not the originals so the fascists in DC already knew what Trump had.
If Trump decides to run again his real problem will be finding enough competent and non DC insider people to fill the slots in a mass firing across the executive branch. He will also need to campaign with explicit details of how many agencies he proposes to shut down, what government spending cuts he will push for and getting rid of the climate change crap and policies to let small business prosper. The big guys can fend for themselves. If he campaigns on doing this and gets every Republican running in 2024 to sign on then he not only win but be a transformative president.
I dunno......"Rolling Stone" magazine.
Rape at the Phi Kappa Psi!!
DOJ appeals MAL order.
“The FBI raid wasn't greenlighted to retrieve Russiagate documents. It the documents were crucial, Trump would've been raided months ago.”
“This is all part of long thought out plan, of which Adolph Biden's hate MAGA speech, was the latest piece. THe goal: Destroy Trump. He will be indicted before the midtermns, using the Documents picked up in the Raid.”
I think that may have been the plan. But I don’t think that plan survived the order appointing a special master. That’s because the order essentially froze the DOJ from using the documents seized in the MAL raid until vetted by the (yet to be named) Special Master.
So, what would happen if the DOJ indicted Trump today? I would expect a Show Cause motion later today or tomorrow morning, for contempt by the DOJ for ignoring the Judge’s order. Then there would probably be a hearing to look at the evidence being used by them supporting their indictment. Was any of the evidence used for the indictment vacuumed up in the MAL raid? They really don’t want that. It would give too much of their case away, and tar them with unclean hands in the future. Judges really don’t like litigants ignoring their orders.
Looks like DoJ OK with moving forward on SM but wants stay of PI of criminal investigation.
MikeR: "He had months after the election to do some important things, and he just didn't get them done."
And months after those months. Of course, you can always ascribe anomalous outcomes to basic incompetence. But considering Trump's behavior, and clear indications that he is not stupid, it is also possible that he wanted the issues to linger and he wanted the battle with the deep state and he wanted to remain in the spotlight and appear the victim.
Someone, or someones are trying to draw the Obama/Iranian nuclear treaty into this. If there actually nuclear secrets in the documents seized in the MAL raid, they very likely involve Iran. Interestingly, the dates on the documents in staged photo of documents seized in the raid seem to coincide with the deal Obama made with the Iranians.
We shall see.
'So I must be in the wrong place because I just read more than 20 illogical defenses for Trump's possession of super secret documents in his obviously spy-laden Palm Beach resort where he has improperly given his own people access without proper security authorization, and likely no longer has security authorization himself; yes, Virginia, free access to government documents that he has already admitted to having stolen. Somewhere the Rule-of-Law comes into play.'
You clearly don't understand my position.
I want to see communists and socialists punished.
I want them locked up for what they've done to this country and what they're doing to our children.
I don't give a fuck about, 'it's bad if you do it just because we did it.'
I want revenge...then we can talk.
why didn't Trump release them earlier? Or at least leak them?
Because then he's leaking information the current administration sees as classified and they will indict him.
If he doesn't leak it his hands are still clean. And it's too early to leak it if he's running in 2024. There's no benefit to leaking it right now so he doesn't.
Better to leave it as leverage. He can leak it at any time. Except now they took the documents, but did they take the only copies?
The Hopeless gadfly: "Nick Catoggio notes in his first post at The Dispatch:..."
The Dispatch!!
LOL
I do not know to what extent the FBI was allowed to seize his communications also with US citizens.
Not just US citizens but ANYBODY within 3 hops. So people who talked to people who talked to Carter Page would be swept up in the net. 3 Degrees of separation.
You also have to know that all information is already recorded. The warrant allows them to go back in time via already created records and pull that information out. They can also go deeper, but getting new warrants on the 3rd degree contacts and get 3 degrees from them. Soon enough you have anybody's entire communication history.
Weaponized domestic spying. It may not hold up against the 4th amendment if they were to indict you, but the FBI isn't indicting people, they are just spying.
"Now all those documents, which he thought were so important, are back in the hands of the government."
I find it hard to have a very strong opinion about just how wily Trump really is vs. what is projected onto him, good or bad. But if the above is true, I'm leaning against the stable genius hypothesis. I mean, if you have a gigantic target on your back and villainous, traitorous enemies with motive and means, and you have what amounts to blackmail material against your rivals, do you just keep a single hard copy of the material in the one place they are guaranteed to look if they come for you?
Seems like really poor planning to leave that to the last day. Maybe should have taken some time out from leaning on Raffensperger or something to get that done sooner. Maybe dumped the docs online while he was still President so nobody could argue about whether he had 'properly' declassified him.
But he was really never that competent.
Bruce Hayden said...
Someone, or someones are trying to draw the Obama/Iranian nuclear treaty into this. If there actually nuclear secrets in the documents seized in the MAL raid, they very likely involve Iran. Interestingly, the dates on the documents in staged photo of documents seized in the raid seem to coincide with the deal Obama made with the Iranians.
*******************
Why would Trump, who always rejected the Iran nuclear deal and is a staunch ally of Israel, want to blab to world secret info about Israel, likely gathered in part by the Israelis and their spies?
The Iranians could use the info to figure out who might have stolen those secrets. Such people would, of course, be tortured and killed. Why would Trump want this to happen?
"I do not know to what extent the FBI was allowed to seize his communications also with US citizens."
Brian: "Not just US citizens but ANYBODY within 3 hops. So people who talked to people who talked to Carter Page would be swept up in the net. 3 Degrees of separation."
And not just 3 hops in the present and future, but they also got to go back to the captured signals for years and years for all those people.
Our New Soviet Democraticals make the East German Stasi and KGB look like the kindergartners.
Readering: "Looks like DoJ OK with moving forward on SM but wants stay of PI of criminal investigation."
Of course they do.
They need that to continue Operation Influence The 2022 Election To Help The New Soviet Democratical Party
Witness said...
Seems like really poor planning to leave that to the last day. Maybe should have taken some time out from leaning on Raffensperger or something to get that done sooner. Maybe dumped the docs online while he was still President so nobody could argue about whether he had 'properly' declassified him.
But he was really never that competent.
***************
I always have to guffaw at comments like this, coming from an unknown with unknown accomplishments, blithely claiming that one of the most effective Presidents of recent memory was "never really that competent".
Dude...
dwshelf said...
"If you were smart, you would disbelieve Trump, too.
Trump doesn't lie. Rather, he tells the story from his own experience, which sometimes is indeed at odds with establishable facts.
It's not intended to deceive, and that gives toeholds such that the astute can usually sort it out, Althouse among the truly astute."
He is an expert in telling the truth in such a way that he isn't believed by people who deal in lies. I admire him for it.
Witness said...
"Seems like really poor planning to leave that to the last day. Maybe should have taken some time out from leaning on Raffensperger or something to get that done sooner. Maybe dumped the docs online while he was still President so nobody could argue about whether he had 'properly' declassified him.
But he was really never that competent."
Perhaps he was preoccupied with other things.
"And yet he has lied less than you have. Why would anyone believe you?"
Now you're resorting to kindergarten name-calling. It just undermines you and anything you might ever say. Please specify when I have lied and what I lied about. I won't hold my breath.
If the documents provide evidence of a deep state plot, why did Trump throw them in a box with his dirty socks?
I can't find any analysis of the actual classification status of the MAL information.
My questions.
1. Does the Government have any path to overturn Trumps assertion that every thing he had, is declassified?
2.The govt has muddied the water with National Defense Information, DNI. This information is not classified, but demands the same treatment, or at least the DoJ is making the claim. But Trump, as CIC. He would have final say as to what is or is not afforded special treatment.
Again, that get back to exactly has the constitutional power to challenge the determination of a President?
3.The PRA. Are their criminal elements spelled out in the statute? Under what authority does the FBI have to remove documents at the request of the National Archivist?
Jim. You only know what the FBI has leaked to the press. The FBI has been caught fabricating 'truth' sounding narratives.
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