Says the Editorial Board of The Wall Street Journal, in "The Half-Trillion-Dollar Student-Loan Executive Coup/Biden’s student-loan write-off is an abuse of power that favors college grads at the expense of plumbers and FedEx drivers."
August 25, 2022
"Worse than the cost is the moral hazard and awful precedent this sets....
"Those who will pay for this write-off are the tens of millions of Americans who didn’t go to college, or repaid their debt, or skimped and saved to pay for college, or chose lower-cost schools to avoid a debt trap. This is a college graduate bailout paid for by plumbers and FedEx drivers. Colleges will also capitalize by raising tuition to capture the write-off windfall. A White House fact sheet hilariously says that colleges will 'have an obligation to keep prices reasonable and ensure borrowers get value for their investments, not debt they cannot afford.' Only a fool could believe colleges will do this...."
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109 comments:
Scranton Joe, fighting for the little guy.
Does he think this helps the guy that runs the 7-11 (with the “slight Indian accent”), or the guys that work the Amtrak tracks/trains between Delaware and DC?
Fraud. Liar. Grifter.
If anyone takes the hit, it should be the universities and colleges. They have been inflating their budgets, adding non-teaching administrators, and luxuriating their facilities with the proceeds of these loans. It was simply another way the boomers constructed to get paid big at the expense of their children and grandchildren.
If anyone takes the hit, it should be the universities and colleges. They have been inflating their budgets, adding non-teaching administrators, and luxuriating their facilities with the proceeds of these loans. It was simply another way the boomers constructed to get paid big at the expense of their children and grandchildren.
Seems like we shouldn’t be saying “wait until Republicans win in November to impeach Biden”. If the President can get away with spending half a trillion without legislative appropriation, then what power do they not have? This is what an insurrection really looks like.
Why zero discussion of making student loans dischargeable thru bankruptcy?
The DC republican "leadership" might be so angry at this latest Biden overreach that they might even write 2 angry letters to the editors while continuing to support the Deep State machinations against Trump and his supporters.
Mitt Romney might decide that he will only march in 4 or 5 BLM marches instead of the planned 7 or 8 just to "really show 'em" how upset he is.
Lindsay Graham will no doubt swear up and down that he will get "to the bottom of this"....sometime around 2028 and then, boy howdy there will be heck to pay!
John Thune will simply stand there and nod as McConnell gravely speaks about the horrors of Jan 6......and then they will both suddenly remember they are there to talk about Biden's overreach and he will mutter something about "not being pleased...at all."
Powerful stuff coming our way.
Watching the WSJ editorial board, which has opposed every single conceivable effort ever to help the people they express such sympathy and concern for here, write this with zero supporting evidence of absolutely rich.
"I think it was the plumber who took my slipper" - Joe Biden answers questions from reporters on his student loan order
"Worse than the cost is the moral hazard and awful precedent this sets...."
Well, but moral hazard is prog MO. They like it. Similarly, bribing voters with other people's money is prog MO. They like it. They are following precedent, not setting it.
The very point of the current version of student loans was to enable forgiveness down the line as a political gift. The hazard and precedent were baked in from the outset.
New rules. Let's use them.
"...favors college grads at the expense of plumbers and FedEx drivers."
Well, yes. Kind of the whole point, isn't it? The only controlling principle here is "we got away with it."
There are so many obvious moves that could alleviate the student debt problem, Joe picked the exact opposite of all of them.
Unfair and illegal and immoral actions are the backbone of the modern democratic party.
Kid across the street from me had parents who could easily have paid his tuition in full, they make at least half a million per year plus bonuses. Instead, they made him take out some loans and they bought him a car. He is in his first year of work, makes $80k, lives at home and has no expenses. He will qualify for the $10k. The woman who cleans their house will pay for part of that.
Daniel12 said...
Watching the WSJ editorial board, which has opposed every single conceivable effort ever to help the people they express such sympathy and concern for here, write this with zero supporting evidence of absolutely rich.
8/25/22, 9:04 AM
A terrific example of the ad hominem logical fallacy.
Jason Furman
@jasonfurman
Pouring roughly half trillion dollars of gasoline on the inflationary fire that is already burning is reckless. Doing it while going well beyond one campaign promise ($10K of student loan relief) and breaking another (all proposals paid for) is even worse.
2:15 PM · Aug 24, 2022
https://twitchy.com/samj-3930/2022/08/25/this-brit-hume-shares-brutal-thread-from-former-obama-adviser-actually-tearing-biden-a-new-one-over-his-student-debt-handout/
why deny USA political class has always been about exploiting working people to keep themselves rich?
Government [= lifetime control] of some people for some other people by some bought people
"Skimped and saved"??
The word is scrimped. Can't believe an editor missed this.
"Skimped and saved"??
The word is scrimped. Can't believe an editor missed this.
Leland said:
This is what an insurrection really looks like.
And he is CORRECT!!!!
"Skimped and saved"??
The word is scrimped. Can't believe an editor missed this.
"Skimped and saved"?
The word is scrimped. Can't believe an editor missed this.
Colleges may be told they "have an obligation" but they have absolutely no *incentive* to lower costs. There needs to be a reckoning in financial structure or else we will be back here again yearly. @Iowahawkblog has some very good thoughts on the matter, and his crux is the schools need skin in the game - as they are conspicuously the only entities who facilitate the loans, have no financial stake, and they get their money up front.
Make the schools effectively co-sign the loans and make them dischargeable in bankruptcy.
Mark O: "New rules. Let's use them"
No establishment republican ever will. Marquis of Queensbury for them at all times.
And if any anti-establishment republican tries to use the "new rules", the establishment republicans will work hand in glove with the democraticals to stop them....and those establishment republican's will receive glowing praise from those they care about the most: their richest donors and the legacy media.
You know this is true. It's been proven over and over again.
If the elites at the Washington Post and Wall Street Journal agree partial student loan forgiveness is a bad idea, …
Skimped and saved?
The word is scrimped. Can't believe an editor missed this.
Me: I worked through school and just paid off my student loans. What’s in this for me?
Joe Biden: Inflation.
Re: Quayle:
If anyone takes the hit, it should be the universities and colleges. They have been inflating their budgets, adding non-teaching administrators, and luxuriating their facilities with the proceeds of these loans. It was simply another way the boomers constructed to get paid big at the expense of their children and grandchildren.
Exactly right. Only in making them pay for it, unfortunately I think you would need to put in some price controls to prevent them from just passing the cost on in increased tuition from those who pay without loans. My objective wouldn't just be to extract money from the universities. It would be to put the squeeze on, and force them to slim down, whether it's by cutting excessive administrators or cutting excessive student amenities (or, ideally, both). Make all universities accepting public funds limit tuition increases to inflation or something.
The Harris Biden administration sued ITT and (I think) DeVry and pushed debt forgiveness because they “intentionally misled students about the quality of their programs in order to profit off federal student loan programs, with no regard for the hardship this would cause.” How, exactly, is that any different than the experience at any of these “not-for-profit” colleges and universities?
My parents paid for my first four years at UW-Madison (88-92) on a HELOC, and limited it to four years because they had another to get through college after me. Their combined income (firefighter and retail sales manager) didn’t qualify for any financial aid. I needed a few more credits after four years to finish my degrees, and couldn’t afford the payments for unsubsidized student loans, so I went part-time and paid for the credits on my high-interest credit card (pro tip, don’t do that). Took 8 years to pay that off. Now I get to pay for others, while saving for my son’s college in a few years. If your degree doesn’t benefit you enough for you to make your loan payments, it sure as hell doesn’t generate enough benefit to me to do it for you. And if you can’t understand that, you probably were too dumb to go to college. But don’t feel bad, you’re more than smart enough to be a progressive!
Watching Democrats who claim to want to help the people they express such sympathy and concern for design a system to keep people in peonage so they can buy their votes with trinkets and occasional hands outs is absolutely rich.
It’s fun reading the comments of the people who think college costs are a scam and student loan forgiveness is a moral hazard. If you have been scammed, it’s only fair you should stay scammed is their thinking, I guess.
But the Biden administration has tied its justification for doing this to the Covid emergency, not to student loan forgiveness being a good policy in general. President Biden is implicitly only saying that it’s not fair to collect the full student loan debt from people who went through the Covid emergency.
@Bob Boyd:Why zero discussion of making student loans dischargeable thru bankruptcy?
The Federal government took over the student loan business years ago; the money is owed directly to the Federal government which now originates the loans. So "dischargeable through bankruptcy" doesn't do anything. There's no bank involved to be affected by whether a student loan is dischargeable in bankruptcy, only the Federal government.
QuidProJoe's keepers know where Democrat bread is buttered: University credentialed nincompoops.
BTW, it's not just plumbers and FedEx drivers who are paying for this. My wife spent years paying off her student loans and I worked my way through law school to avoid borrowing.
My suggestion for those with student loans is not to pre-spend that 10K just yet. I predict that a court will rule that the President does not have the power to cancel student loans and that the White House knows this and is cynically counting on that ruling coming after November so that they get the political benefit of the supposed cancellation but don't actually have to pay for it. It's a "turn out the base" play, and as usual, those who trust in government promises will be the ones who get screwed.
Left Bank of the Charles said...
It’s fun reading the comments of the people who think college costs are a scam and student loan forgiveness is a moral hazard. If you have been scammed, it’s only fair you should stay scammed is their thinking, I guess.
But the Biden administration has tied its justification for doing this to the Covid emergency, not to student loan forgiveness being a good policy in general. President Biden is implicitly only saying that it’s not fair to collect the full student loan debt from people who went through the Covid emergency.
8/25/22, 9:53 AM
Then why not forgive MORTGAGE loans or car loans for people who were told to STAY home and not work?? This is fucked up.
It’s fun reading the comments that think if you’ve been scammed, then you have the moral right to scam someone yourself. Once everyone is a scammer, society will be better, eh?
Left Bank: "President Biden is implicitly only saying that it’s not fair to collect the full student loan debt from people who went through the Covid emergency."
The New Soviet Democratical God Emperor has spoken and Left Bank murmurs "let it be so".
LeftBank: "President Biden is implicitly only saying that it’s not fair to collect the full student loan debt from people who went through the Covid emergency."
Crikey, lefty logic. It follows then, does it not, that the government should pay off all debts of "people who went through the Covid emergency"? You know, fairness.
I remember a time when Democrats actually cared about the country and their rank and file were not this transparently stupid.
It’s fun reading the comments of the people who think college costs are a scam and student loan forgiveness is a moral hazard. If you have been scammed, it’s only fair you should stay scammed is their thinking, I guess.
Anyone who took student loans over the past couple of decades knew or should have known that they were paying extorionary rates. If you are in on the scam, you shouldn't complain now.
But the Biden administration has tied its justification for doing this to the Covid emergency, not to student loan forgiveness being a good policy in general. President Biden is implicitly only saying that it’s not fair to collect the full student loan debt from people who went through the Covid emergency.
Maybe Biden should be addressing universities who charged full freight, including room and board, to students who were forced to take classes on-line from home. What about all the student fees for things (gym, intramural sports, concerts, and the like) that were not offered for half of these students' college years?
this is like the old story, of The Ant and The Grasshopper
The Ant worked hard, and paid his way
The Grasshopper partied on Student loans, and learned NOTHING
When the winter came, The Man came, and took the Ant's food, and gave it to the Grasshopper, saying
You GO! Grasshopper! You vote democrat, so YOU RULE!!
The Ant watched the Grasshopper eat his food, and thought.. There's a Moral here
Left Bank of the Charles said...
It’s fun reading the comments of the people who think college costs are a scam and student loan forgiveness is a moral hazard. If you have been scammed, it’s only fair you should stay scammed is their thinking, I guess.
No, our thinking is that WE should not have to pay for YOU getting scammed.
Go look up "moral hazard", and stop being such apathetic ignoramus
But the Biden administration has tied its justification for doing this to the Covid emergency, not to student loan forgiveness being a good policy in general. President Biden is implicitly only saying that it’s not fair to collect the full student loan debt from people who went through the Covid emergency.
And it's an utterly bullshit argument, with no support in the law.
And gee, if the "Covid National Emergency" (it's a 2003 law, and so the Biden* Admin is claiming this power for ANY "national emergency") justifies student loan "forgiveness", not merely a pause in payments, what' the limiting case?
The next time CA has a forest fire "national emergency", does the Biden* Admin get to wipe ok $5k in student loan debt for anyone in the "emergency" area?
I had to pay mine off with military service and payroll deductions.F those who want me to pay theirs with no obligations.
"Pouring roughly half trillion dollars of gasoline on the inflationary fire that is already burning is reckless."
Cancelling debt is inflationary? Dubious. It may even be deflationary.
That said, the whole student debt monstrosity shouldn't exist. I'd like to blow it up in a way that hurts the universities the most, but I'm not sure how to do that.
@Gabriel
Thanks for the answer. But I have more questions. Like, if the government loans were able to be discharged through bankruptcy instead of a blanket forgiveness, wouldn't that mean the people who didn't have to repay the loans were actually economically distressed, actually unable to repay the loan? Why forgive the loans for someone who's making good money because of their loan?
Ann yesterday: "It's only $10,000." Total cost: Half a trillion.
What say you today, Ann? (Actually, based on the number of posts this AM I think I know what you say: Oops.)
Then why not forgive MORTGAGE loans or car loans for people who were told to STAY home and not work?? This is fucked up.
Hey, don't give 'em ideas!
"By cutting out the middleman, we'll save the American taxpayers $68 billion in the coming years," the President said. "That's real money - real savings that we'll reinvest to help improve the quality of higher education and make it more affordable." - Barak Obama, March 30 2010 – Telling Americans how good some of us will have it - Upon signing into legislation the Federal Takeover of Student Loans in the US: Health Care and Education Reconciliation Act of 2010. And now the Gifts of Future Past have arrived.
I like Ann and I appreciate this blog. She's one of the fairest liberals I've ever encountered. But her liberal-ness stuck its head up from the swamp yesterday big time when she said "It's only $10,000." I was stunned by that at first, then wasn't because I realize all liberals all think money is printed freely. Need something? Throw money at it. We'll make more." This is the liberal/progressive worldview and also it's huge Achilles heel. It's such a childish view I can hardly believe educated people believe it but they do and en masse.
Sorry, this is the third or fourth post where I've bitched about Ann's response. I need to let it go. I can see from today's posts that she's backpedalling. So I will let it go (I think). But it was a very telling moment.
But the Biden administration has tied its justification for doing this to the Covid emergency, not to student loan forgiveness being a good policy in general. President Biden is implicitly only saying that it’s not fair to collect the full student loan debt from people who went through the Covid emergency.
Come on. The "COVID emergency" is just the administration's pretext and everybody knows it. It's transparently a vote bribe and a move toward yet more serfdom.
A terrific example of the ad hominem logical fallacy.
I disagree.
They said: "This is a college graduate bailout paid for by plumbers and FedEx drivers". The cite no evidence or analysis to support that claim (they cite Wharton, which doesn't include the Pell grant part of the plan, but not in relation to their claim about who gets help and who pays). It's just, like, their opinion, man. So me assessing their opinion based on the brand they've actively established for decades and their long history of opinions opposing support for the people they express concern for is not ad hominem -- it's all we have to go on.
David Burge
@iowahawkblog
I mean, it's kind of surprising to learn there's that many Harvard Law alumni living paycheck to paycheck in a doublewide, working double shifts at Waffle House to pay their crushing student loan payments, but I guess Professor Tribe is the expert here
7:10 PM · Aug 24, 2022
Laurence Tribe
@tribelaw
Good news for thousands of my former students. I’m grateful on their behalf, Mr. President.https://www.axios.com/2022/08/24/student-loan-forgiveness-debt-cancel-biden
gilbar said...
this is like the old story, of The Ant and The Grasshopper
The Ant worked hard, and paid his way
The Grasshopper partied on Student loans, and learned NOTHING
When the winter came, The Man came, and took the Ant's food, and gave it to the Grasshopper, saying
You GO! Grasshopper! You vote democrat, so YOU RULE!!
The Ant watched the Grasshopper eat his food, and thought.. There's a Moral here
8/25/22, 10:21 AM
100% THIS^^^^^^^^^
Silent Cal Coolidge said it best. "They hired the money didn't they?"
Take out a loan--pay it back. Simple rule--avoids moral hazard.
Daniel12 said...
Watching the WSJ editorial board, which has opposed every single conceivable effort ever to help the people they express such sympathy and concern for here, write this with zero supporting evidence of absolutely rich.
You didn't make any arguments.
Because you don't have any.
It is obvious what this loan forgiveness does and what the effects will be. Anyone with an IQ over 90 could see it.
But that apparently doesn't describe anyone stupid enough to support the Biden Regime looting the treasury like this.
CJ said...
That said, the whole student debt monstrosity shouldn't exist. I'd like to blow it up in a way that hurts the universities the most, but I'm not sure how to do that.
Seize all University property and endowments.
Seize the retirements of all administrators and professors.
Pay off the student loans.
Salt the ground.
Next comes reparations.
@M Jordan
I think Althouse referring to "only $10,000", was meant as it's not a particularly life-changing amount of debt to relieve people of, not that it was a good idea or justified because the amount was small (I realize it's not small to lots of people, but it's smaller than most car loans).
Left Bank of the Charles said...
It’s fun reading the comments of the people who think college costs are a scam and student loan forgiveness is a moral hazard. If you have been scammed, it’s only fair you should stay scammed is their thinking, I guess.
But the Biden administration has tied its justification for doing this to the Covid emergency, not to student loan forgiveness being a good policy in general. President Biden is implicitly only saying that it’s not fair to collect the full student loan debt from people who went through the Covid emergency.
Good god you people are just complete morons.
If I was a Republican governor running for President, I would glibly put out a celebratory announcement of this newfound executive branch power and then explain all the debt forgiveness I'd provide as president using that power, such as:
- Full debt forgiveness for all college students, ever, because student loan debt is unethical!
- Full mortgage forgiveness for all homeowners, citizen or not
- Full auto loan forgiveness
etc.
With tiny type at the bottom saying it's a parody.
Because really, the only way to genuinely react to this is by mocking it and mocking it really loudly and publicly.
Intentional Biden will intentionally do whatever generates steals of cash bribes for the family. Every enemy of the USA has long known this Biden offer. The citizens of the USA are the only mesmerized ones so used to having crooked political heroes that steal only locally that the international steals cannot possibly be true. Then along came Trump who saw it all and pledged to end it.
I am leaving what is left in my IRA to the professional school where I got my training and advanced degree. Today, for the first time, my wife and I agreed that perhaps we should bleed the IRA a bit more while we are alive to reduce the amount of our gift. I am outraged by this election year stunt that randomly rewards the upper middle class (incomes of $125,000!!!!!) at the expense of the public. The generously salaried are being benefited by the little guys who work for a living.
Disgusting.
Biden and his cronies don't honor, despite their oaths, the Constitution and the equal protection clauses of the 5th and 14th Amendments.
My blue collar father told me, 'Son, you can go to any college you can afford to pay for yourself.'
So I got a job, often working full-time at night while going to a state school during the day.
Where is my $10,000? I surely would have qualified for it as my father never made more than $30k in his life to support a family of six.
Show me my money...
Just stuff a check into mail-in ballots and cut the bullshit.
Election Day Teaser. Walking around money for college graduates without good jobs. My question is whether the new IRS-stapo will demand to collect the taxes on the debt forgiveness income. Probably only from pro-American MAGA scum.
Gabriel @ 9:57: “… There's no bank involved to be affected by whether a student loan is dischargeable in bankruptcy, only the Federal government.”
Help me here. I’m no bankruptcy guru steered but since when do obligations to Federal or other government not get scheduled as liabilities in a debtor’s petition in bankruptcy? Why would such a debtor’s estate not be administered to liquidate any non-exempt assets and apply them to satisfying those obligations? Doesn’tat the government come first, e.g. tax debts are given secured creditor status?
Aren’t student loans not dischargeable in bankruptcy? That sounds to me like a super-priority. Debtors cannot shake them off, ever.
Election Day Teaser. Walking around money for college graduates without good jobs. My question is whether the new IRS-stapo will demand to collect the taxes on the debt forgiveness income. Probably only from pro-American MAGA scum.
Question I used to ask family members who were cavalier about subsidizing non-working but able-bodied objects of charity: do you realize how hard your gardening crew has to work to make $10,000?
The worst, most callous thing anyone can say about this is, "It's only $10,000." If it is only $10,000, they can damn well pay it off. But it won't be only $10,000, will it? It is $500,000,000,000, and the next tranche will be coming "for equity."
Sorry, Althouse. If someone wasted $10,000 on a worthless college experience, you and I don't have to subsidize them. They should pay for it--all of it. My wife came out of college with debt equal to one year's salary. She paid it off.
Today's postings strike a more seemly tone.
‘Cancelling debt is inflationary? Dubious. It may even be deflationary.’
Dubious, my ass. It’s adding billions of dollars into our economy during a period of very high inflation. But, I’m all ears if you care to posit your deflationary theorem.
Blogger Prof. M. Drout said...
My suggestion for those with student loans is not to pre-spend that 10K just yet. I predict that a court will rule that the President does not have the power to cancel student loans and that the White House knows this and is cynically counting on that ruling coming after November so that they get the political benefit of the supposed cancellation.
I agree with this. I still have $12,000 to pay on the $50,000 loans I took out to pay my youngest daughter's way through U of AZ. The other kids I paid for when tuition was less. I was retired when she was going to college so the "forgiveness" would do me a favor but I don't think it will happen. I also agree that the regime knows this won't happen.
M Jordan said:
"I like Ann and I appreciate this blog. She's one of the fairest liberals I've ever encountered. But her liberal-ness stuck its head up from the swamp yesterday big time when she said "It's only $10,000." I was stunned by that at first, then wasn't because I realize all liberals all think money is printed freely. Need something? Throw money at it. We'll make more." This is the liberal/progressive worldview and also it's huge Achilles heel. It's such a childish view I can hardly believe educated people believe it but they do and en masse.
Sorry, this is the third or fourth post where I've bitched about Ann's response. I need to let it go. I can see from today's posts that she's backpedalling. So I will let it go (I think). But it was a very telling moment."
You need to disabuse yourself of the notion that people like our "good professor" are at all connected to the realities of the things they blithely speak on. To her, $10,000.00 is maybe a month and a half of salary. She's got no earthly idea what the hell that $10,000.00 actually represents to someone who only makes $20,000.00-30,000.00 a year, or what it's going to cost that "little person" when inflation drives up the cost of everything they need to buy in order to live, and then the tax increases to pay for all of that screw them.
It's all meaningless to them, these self-proclaimed "liberal elites", who're mostly liberal when it comes to spending other people's money. They've gotten away with it for so long because there was a huge amount of slack in the system, and nobody felt the pain from their irresponsible machinations until now that all that slack is coming out of everything.
The only thing I find comforting about it all? The delicious sense of schadenfreude I'm going to get when the bills for the piper finally come due, and these so-called "elites" are stumbling towards the metaphoric and perhaps actual guillotines of the not-so-far-distant future. What cannot go on forever, will not go on forever, and the fact is that the mobs will be looking for scapegoats. Who better than retired participants in the education scam, who've voiced approval for this latest fleecing of the non-anointed?
Couple of things to note, here: Similarly to the way that we've allowed far too much separation to creep in between the body politic and the military, there's been a similar separation between the supposed "elite" and "the rest of us". This is a recipe for idiocy like our professor's, who has no earthly idea how her words resonate to anyone who wasn't a part of the education scam she ran with her peers for decades. When the mob comes for her and hers, "the rest of us" are going to be studiously looking the other way, thinking "Yeah, she deserves every bit of it... The dummy took part in everything, and defended all those brilliant "liberal" ideas... Let the looters have 'em..."
It's coming. All y'all best be researching Weimar Germany, Venezuela, and the former Yugoslavia. Difference here will be that being as we're so much bigger, the collapse is going to be a lot bigger, and a lot harder to overcome. People of the former "elite" are going to find it hard going, and perhaps deservedly so.
M Jordan said...
I like Ann and I appreciate this blog. She's one of the fairest liberals I've ever encountered. But her liberal-ness stuck its head up from the swamp yesterday big time when she said "It's only $10,000." I was stunned by that at first, then wasn't because I realize all liberals all think money is printed freely.
Wow, you people really don't get it, do you?
If you have $100k in debt you can't pay, and 4 years at a ritzy institution costs far more than that, then cutting it to $90k of debt toucan't pay really doesn't help.
So for the people whining the most, $10k is NOT that much, compared to the hole they've dug for themselves.
When means that Biden* waiving $10k for them is NOT going to get them especially excited and happy, and eager to go out and vote / work for the Democrats.
IOW: The bribe is too small to get him support, while being an illegal and immoral bribe that willpiss off a lot of potential voters.
So, as a political matter, $10k is a stupid choice. Too low to excite the people it's supposed to excite, while high enough to piss off everyone else
Which is what Althouse was saying
CJ said...
"Pouring roughly half trillion dollars of gasoline on the inflationary fire that is already burning is reckless."
Cancelling debt is inflationary? Dubious. It may even be deflationary.
Cancelling debt payments is inflationary. You've now got more money chasing the exact same amount of goods
Gabriel said...
@Bob Boyd:Why zero discussion of making student loans dischargeable thru bankruptcy?
The Federal government took over the student loan business years ago; the money is owed directly to the Federal government which now originates the loans. So "dischargeable through bankruptcy" doesn't do anything. There's no bank involved to be affected by whether a student loan is dischargeable in bankruptcy, only the Federal government.
Taxes are dischargeable through bankruptcy in many cases, so the fact that the $$'s owed to the Feds instead of a bank is not particularly relevant.
Student loans aren't dischargeable through bankruptcy because too many Med and Law students were racking up the debt, then declaring bankruptcy on graduation, when they had no income.
A workaround to that would be "only dischargeable 10+ years after final loan disbursement received".
A better thing to include would to make the institution that received the loan disbursements a co-signer on the loan, and responsible for up to 10% (say) of the total loan (student pays nothing, school pays 10%. Student pays back 90%, school still on hook for the other 10)
Or maybe 20% of the 1st year, 15% of the 2nd year, 10% of years 3 - 4, and a 5%/year bump after that (so 15% for 5th year, 20% for 6th year, 25% for 7th, etc)
This encourages them not to let in people who will drop out, and not to keep people around forever.
But I personally would be opposed to any move to make them dischargeable in bankruptcy, that didn't make sure to stick the school with a significant cost when someone defaults
"This is the liberal/progressive worldview..."
Mike Rowe posted about this loan forgiveness nonsense on Facebook. I responded to a post from a progressive, disagreeing with his support for cancelling loans. He replied, criticizing me for lacking empathy for the people having trouble paying their loans back.
So- not being in favor of forcing people who didn't take out loans to pay for the ones that others willingly signed up for means you lack empathy.
This is the liberal/progressive worldview, indeed.
The dem base either likes taking money from others, or thinks money just shows up.
Christopher B said...
"Watching Democrats who claim to want to help the people they express such sympathy and concern for design a system to keep people in peonage so they can buy their votes with trinkets and occasional hands outs is absolutely rich."
Funny thing is, if they're trying to buy votes, the intended audience is already mostly a lock to vote (D), so they're not getting much of a return.
It isn't that the electorate is being bought that staggers the imagination, it is that the price per voter is so damn small.
Local news interviewed several students at the University of Washington yesterday. To a person, they whined it wasn't enough.
I want a divorce.
So, as a political matter, $10k is a stupid choice. Too low to excite the people it's supposed to excite, while high enough to piss off everyone else
Which is what Althouse was saying
********************************
How do you know? Did she tell you? Has she said so here?
The cost to ALL taxpayers is the $500 BILLION (300 + lost interest) WE will have to pay to reward irresponsible behavior. Citing the modest $10K/person forgiveness is just a way of diverting attention from that fact.
I think the courts will strangle this unconstitutional monster in its crib.
"Ann yesterday: "It's only $10,000." Total cost: Half a trillion. What say you today, Ann? (Actually, based on the number of posts this AM I think I know what you say: Oops.)"
No. I knew the total number yesterday. My point is that the individual borrower only gets $10,000 in relief. It's just a gesture at the problem. It's like when they put $2000 in our bank accounts. Okay. Nice. You appreciate it, but you're basically in the same position.
There are some people for whom $10,000 is the whole thing and they are struggling to pay. For them, isn't it more trouble to try to collect than to just say forget it, go and borrow no more.
"I think Althouse referring to "only $10,000", was meant as it's not a particularly life-changing amount of debt to relieve people of, not that it was a good idea or justified because the amount was small (I realize it's not small to lots of people, but it's smaller than most car loans)."
Thanks for writing that M. Jordan.
A friend of mine bragged that she still owes $10,300 on her student loans, but now, she'll only have to pay $300. "That's easy," she said.
This friend is a retired lawyer who moved to Thailand several years ago from Old Town Alexandria.
She is a "points maven," who travels all over the world in First Class and rents Airbnbs for a week in places like Mykonos and Barcelona.
If that's not the epitome of a typical, hypocritical elitist lib, I don't know what is.
Makes me madder than dirt …
“It’s a write-off, Jerry!”
effinayright said...
"I think the courts will strangle this unconstitutional monster in its crib."
Who's gonna sue? Who has standing to sue?
I don't think the purpose of this loan forgiveness is to buy votes; it's to energize the campaign volunteers who do the majority of work for get-out-the-vote efforts, etc. This isn't about buying votes on a large scale (despite the price tag), it's about pumping money into a particular demographic that already solidly D voters. The reason for the ridiculously high income cap and not limiting by total household income is that the people at the upper end will transform some fraction of the 10K into campaign contributions, and those at the lower end, who have been demoralized by how badly everything is going under Biden (and by his obvious dementia) will be motivated to do volunteer work for the midterms.
And then the courts overturn it after the election and Biden can use the issue all over again: "I tried to forgive your loans, but the mean judges said I couldn't."
Here is the problem I see: per the people that say that students are whining that $10,000 is not enough, why does anyone think that this is the end? Next, “equity” will require that larger forgiveness be provided to people of color. Then, Biden, with less than two years to go, will realize that he will gain immortality with a day of jubilee for federalized student debt, so he will do it. Does he have the authority? An emergency declared two years ago by a different president, is not much of an emergency.
For reference, reread Atlas Shrugged. The actions that “put the lights out in New York City” all began with an unspecified national emergency.
If you don’t want the camel in the tent with you, don’t let the camel’s nose under the edge of the tent.
Another great camel proverb: if you are crossing the Sahara Desert, and your camel dies, get off and walk.
Announcer: "Feel like a chump? Just stop voting for this kind of crap."
Announcer: "Feel like a chump? Just stop voting for this kind of carp."
In short, welfare for the well-to-do.
What may be even crazier is that the Feds will continue their student loan biz.
How completely insane is that shit!?!?
He's just begging you to 25th amendment his ass. That's Joe's big middle finger in your face.
Redistributive change is a progressive tax scheme.
How much are you willing to pay once it’s free?
Ann: There are some people for whom $10,000 is the whole thing and they are struggling to pay. For them, isn't it more trouble to try to collect than to just say forget it, go and borrow no more.
Fair enough. I disagree, I think people should pay back debt like I have my whole life, I still think $10,000 is more than pocket change but … well, as I said, fair enough.
Heh Heh. Democrats and morals in the same breath! Goes right along with abortion up to delivery. Deadpan ironic.
Tucker Carlson's monolog nailed it between the eyes.
It should go on the student's credit history.
No matter what happens this is a big win/win for Biden, like catnip for the old codger. I don't begrudge the guy his victory, although I never expected someone as creepy and corrupt as him to be President at this point. But here we are and Liberals appear satisfied or at least they are keeping quiet about the "measily" amount.
If this debt forgiveness does pass then the stage has been set for higher education entitlement, as Biden said, his intention is to provide free community college.
I'm liberal enough to say why not?
I suspect we'll be having discussions soon about how necessary a four year degree is for many occupations. I honestly don't know.
Within the last two weeks: $800B to "fight" inflation and now this travesty of "forgiving student debt". Has anyone in this god-forsaken administration ever taken an economics course?
M Jordan said...
The point you both seemed to have missed isn't that it is a trivial sum,(to you). No. The point is why is this being laid on the taxpayer when the people who made the loan are perfecly capable of paying it back.
It is a selfish and immoral act.
Has anyone in this god-forsaken administration ever taken an economics course?
I'm sure they have taken courses from Robert Reich and his ilk. They all look like grad students anyway. I took an economics course in college (1957) that made me a Republican. I am sure that would not happen now.
I am one of those responsible people who paid off his student loan early. I guess I am a chump for doing that.
No Democrat will get my vote again other than in extremis. To the devil with the lot of them.
"I suspect we'll be having discussions soon about how necessary a four year degree is for many occupations. I honestly don't know."
When everyone has a degree, McDonald's can start requiring one for employment. That's when you find out what your education was really worth.
Biden is buying votes for team D this November with other people's money. It is about power and staying in power. Nothing more and nothing less.
Mason G said...
"This is the liberal/progressive worldview..."
Mike Rowe posted about this loan forgiveness nonsense on Facebook. I responded to a post from a progressive, disagreeing with his support for cancelling loans. He replied, criticizing me for lacking empathy for the people having trouble paying their loans back.
And then you respond by criticizing him for lacking empathy for the people who didn't go to college, make less than the people getting the forgiveness, but are stuck paying for the other person's loans
The "lacking empathy" argument can ALWAYS be turned back on the person making it, because there's always someone they're ignoring while showing their "empathy"
effinayright said...
Me: So, as a political matter, $10k is a stupid choice. Too low to excite the people it's supposed to excite, while high enough to piss off everyone else
Which is what Althouse was saying
********************************
How do you know? Did she tell you? Has she said so here?
How did I know? Because that's the reading that made the most sense.
Has she said so here? Yes, in the post immediately after yours. :-)
The cost to ALL taxpayers is the $500 BILLION (300 + lost interest) WE will have to pay to reward irresponsible behavior. Citing the modest $10K/person forgiveness is just a way of diverting attention from that fact.
Yes, the total cost is very high, whereas the individual payoff is pretty low. That's why I say it's hit the "sweet spot" of pissing off everyone
I think the courts will strangle this unconstitutional monster in its crib.
I expect they will. The US Constitution guarantees the American people "a republican form of government", and this move by Biden is a violation of that.
So I don't believe judges will let any standing bullshit get in the way
Rosalyn C. said...
No matter what happens this is a big win/win for Biden
No, it isn't. The people it's supposed to appeal to by and large are going to be pissed "it's so little", while the rest of us are pissed it's happening at all.
It will have a negligible if any increase in D votes, while giving an actual boost to R votes
Bob Boyd,
Why zero discussion of making student loans dischargeable thru bankruptcy?
Indeed! That's my first idea about what to do with this. But no one seems interested.
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