August 5, 2022

"We out-voted the fraud, we didn’t listen to what the fake news had to say. The MAGA movement rose up and voted like their lives depended on it."

Said Kari Lake, quoted in "Kari Lake wins GOP primary for Arizona governor/Her victory adds to the string of 2020 election deniers elevated by Republicans in the state on Tuesday" (WaPo).

Of course, WaPo openly rejects the "fake news"/voter fraud characterization:
Lake’s victory was one of several for prominent election deniers in Arizona. ...Arizona became ground zero for unfounded 2020 election conspiracies after Biden narrowly beat Donald Trump there — the first time a Democrat has taken the state since 1996.... 
Other election deniers who prevailed in Tuesday’s Arizona GOP primary were venture capitalist Blake Masters, now set to face Sen. Mark Kelly (D) in one of the most closely watched Senate races in the country, and secretary of state nominee Mark Finchem.

Masters ran an ad saying “I think Trump won” and Finchem, a state lawmaker, was outside the U.S. Capitol on Jan. 6, 2021, before rioters stormed the building in a deadly attack. He has self-identified with the Oath Keepers, a far-right extremist group and self-styled militia, and said he would decertify Arizona’s 2020 election results if he had the power to do so.

115 comments:

Hunter Biden's tax payer funded Hooker said...

There was so much fraud in 2020.. but don't your dare say so - or you will be called a 'DENIER!"


How do we know everything isn't a manipulation?
The democrats cheat. period.

Hunter Biden's tax payer funded Hooker said...

Recall when it was OK to be a 2016 election denier.

Humperdink said...

Watched several interviews with Lake. She's the female version of Trump. She vowed to seized control of the border. A breath of fresh air. The general election will be fun to watch.

Wilbur said...

WAPO's (and the rest of our media friends) sneering use of "deniers" and "falsehoods" can't help but remind me of Big Jim Taylor, the political boss in Mr. Smith Goes to Washington:

"If he even starts to convince those Senators, you might as well blow your brains out, you know that, don't ya? This is the works, Joe! Either we're out of business or we're bigger than we ever were before. We can't miss a trick. We can't stop at anything until we've smashed this yokel and buried him so deep..."
"I'll blacken this punk so that he'll...You leave public opinion to me."

Jefferson's Revenge said...

For the record I think Trump won and he/we got screwed.

But that topic won’t win any races for office in the next two election cycles. Republicans, both Trumpers and nonTrumpers, need to focus on crime, inflation and education to win. Once in office, let the investigations into past election fraud begin, but they should not be front and center in any campaign.

If you want investigations and jail time for election fraud you need to win office first. Rightly or wrongly, election fraud is not as important to general election voters as other issues. That’s electoral reality.

Leland said...

Did Masters self-identify Oath Keepers as a far-right extremist group and self-styled militia? I doubt he did so. I suspect WaPo identifies Oath Keepers that way, and if Oath Keepers gave their pronouns as "Freedom/Loving"; WaPo would de-organize them.

iowan2 said...

Strange that something that never happened, Russia, Russia, the media is still pushing and the nation knows it was all media PR lies for the Democrat Party

But something the media cant bury, the election fraud that is running rampant, the people still know what happened, despite the media blanket they have thrown over the facts.

Last I checked Maricopa Co was still counting ballots on Thursday, but 3 days to count the ballots for a primary election just scream election transparency. But not a single reporter is interested in finding out why?

rhhardin said...

It's a business. They're guessing what narrative their readers want to live in.

Amadeus 48 said...

I am not a fan of Kari Lake, but articles like this would make me vote for her. To say that the 2020 election was not transparent would be an understatement.

I hold these truths to be self-evident:

1. It is unlikely that enthusiasm for Joe Biden would by itself generate over 81 million votes nationwide.
2. It is unlikely that aversion to Donald Trump would generate over 81 million votes for Biden nationwide, particularly when Trump's vote totals increased by over 10 million votes from 2016.
3. Something happened in 2020 to generate these results. A full analysis and explanation would be in the public interest.
4. The uniform denial by the news media that there is anything to be investigated or explained heightens suspicion that unusual and unprecedented election practices resulted in these outcomes. Their lack of curiosity is curious. Is there something to hide?

Unfortunately, Donald Trump and his acolytes will keep pushing the fraudulent election button with the effect of dragging our nation into the Gotterdammerung of four more years of Democratic rule.

Duke Dan said...

I’ve seen Kari Lake on Tim Pool’s podcast a couple times. Wish my state had a candidate like her.

Christopher B said...

Liberals acting like history started yesterday.

Republicans needing to beat 'the margin of fraud' is a sentiment that goes back to the mid-2000s in the wake of the Bush-Gore Florida recount when the Democrats kept counting the votes until they found enough to make Christine Gregoire Governor of Washington (2004) and to install Stuart Smarmy as Senator from Minnesota (2008).

Temujin said...

You are simply not to state your personal beliefs based on the evidence of your own senses. You must agree to accept the beliefs presented to you by the media and the majority of your 'leaders' in Congress and Government.

These same people wanted you to accept:
>The Russia Collusion Hoax.
>The covid vaccine would keep you from getting covid.
>The covid vaccine would prevent you from spreading covid.
>Really, you needed to have 3 or 4 or more(?) covid vaccines in order for it to work. And by 'work' we mean, kinda, possibly, and only if you wear a mask and don't leave your home.
>That corralling your moms, dads, grandparents into nursing homes during covid, and not allowing any family member to interact with them would keep them safe.
>That Hunter Biden's laptop was Russia disinformation, despite reading Hunter's own words on it and Hunter verifying it was his laptop.
>That Joe Biden did not accept money from the Russians, the Ukrainians, and the Chinese, even though we can see he's the 'Big Guy'.
>That the media- these same people calling us 'Deniers' are clearly denying the truth about Hunter, his laptop, or his corrupt Dad, the vaccine's usefulness, and how Pfizer and Moderna have made off with Billions of dollars for nothing more than therapeutic that sorta, kinda works, sometimes.
>That riots causing billions of dollars in damage, burned out entire neighborhoods and their businesses, murdered people, destroyed entire parts of cities were all "peaceful protests".
>The gigantic protest at the US Capitol, which featured Capitol police removing barricades, opening doors, and did not kill any police, but did see police kill at least two protestors, and featured as many people wearing a buffalo head as those carrying a weapon, was an Insurrection.
>That the Recession was a recession- by definition- right up to the moment it hit under a Democratic President in which case it ceased to be a Recession.
>That the J6 Shot Trial, which featured no cross examination and no rebuttal evidence, but did include people who gave us fictional tales- which have been documented and clearly shown to be fictional, was the most important TV show in History.
>That if Trump gets reelected, it's the end of Democracy.
>That if DeSantis gets elected, it's the end of Democracy.
>That if we all don't quickly buy $90,000 electric cars, stop using AC, and quit eating meat, the world will end in 12 years.

From these people, we are told that if we have any doubts about the 2020 election, we're "Deniers". It's as if we're in Old Jerusalem and they're pointing at us and screaming, "Lepers!". We're instead to believe that Joe Biden- punkish, loutish, handsy, hair sniffing, demented, old Joe Biden got more votes for President than any person in history?

Call me a Denier.

gilbar said...

and The Worst Part IS... They are electable. People the people want might get elected!!

Kai Akker said...

In a group of eight last night, there was some more general discussion once the major focus of our meeting had been completed. A Jacksonian mood prevailed, especially among some of the quieter members. The attitude was, we followed the rules, no matter how stupid and wrong we thought they were. We gave, we gave, we gave..... They took, they took, they took. We're not giving anymore. Try one more phony "crisis" like monkeypox as your excuse and we are going to take back as hard as we can. No one is playing along again.

It was not a good mood but it was a reassuringly determined one. How that translates into action, I am not sure. But, as I say, even the quiet ones. So somehow it will become action. So, in case the point is not obvious, Kari is right.

wendybar said...

WAPO lied to us for 5 years about the FAKE RUSSIAN COLLUSION that Hillary paid for and the Intel agencies helped to lie about. Don't give a shit what they say because they lie all the time.

RideSpaceMountain said...

"The MAGA movement rose up and voted like their lives depended on it."

Actually, the country's life depends upon it first, Then.our actual lives. They are linked.

wendybar said...

Rioters stormed the Capitol when the Capitol police opened the doors and took selfies with them?? WOW!! Who knew??

tim maguire said...

"election deniers...election deniers...unfounded...conspiracies...election deniers"

Wow, tell us how you really feel! (And then go buy yourself a thesaurus, you semi-literate hack!)

Is it accurate to call an attack deadly when the only death was an unarmed protestor shot by a panicking security guard?

Wince said...

Clearly, the WaPo writer wants the label "election denier" to stick, but isn't a more accurate term "Biden legitimacy skeptic"?

J Melcher said...

"Unfounded". I hate that. Disagree with the amount or quality of the " foundations" or argue with the interpretation. But telling us that all the irregularities dating back YEARS with voting machines and drop boxes and mules were solved problems in this one election is an obvious and offensive lie.

Kevin said...

Of course, WaPo openly rejects the "fake news"/voter fraud characterization:

With what evidence?

If we’re stating our opinions, why is one more valid than the other?

Beasts of England said...

She’s a rock star and a high-order alpha female. The sky’s the limit…

Beasts of England said...

‘election deniers’
‘unfounded 2020 election conspiracies‘
‘Other election deniers‘
‘stormed the building in a deadly attack
‘far-right extremist group’
‘self-styled militia‘


Why don’t people trust the media these days? It’s a mystery…

Robert Marshall said...

The "deniers" trope is getting tiresome. Instead of debating a controversy, you simply characterize those on the opposite side as "deniers." Seems like it started with Holocaust deniers, but has been put to work in situations where the evidence may not be quite so clear-cut, where there is real controversy.

For example, climate change. There is real controversy about the extent of man-made climate change as opposed to natural causes (Hunga Tonga-Hunga, anyone?), about the future course to be expected in the lifetimes of those born today, about the economics of carbon emission suppression vs. adaptation, etc. But instead of debating these questions, our politicians and our media insist upon docile acceptance, and dismiss argument as "denial," or as "disinformation." Freedom of expression is no longer an American value, it's more like a crime.

Maybe "deniers" should be a blog category (tag).

Very discouraging!

MikeR said...

The word "deniers" grates on me. It was originally used on "climate change deniers", and was intended to remind you of "Holocaust deniers".
Whenever it is used, the goal is to disallow discussion of the details of the issues that these bad people are supposedly denying.

Jersey Fled said...

I didn't know WAPO had a junior high school edition.

cfs said...

Apparently, the majority of Arizona's GOP voters agree with Lake with regards to the 2020 election.

Question 1: Can CNN write any story about an election without mentioning President Trump and the "extreme right-wing" voters?

Question 2: Now that the GOPe's preferred candidate lost in Arizona will they switch their support to candidate chosen by the voters, or will they work to undermine Lake and throw their support to the Democrat nominee, Hobbs?

Buckwheathikes said...

I'm proud to join Hillary Clinton as an "election denier."

“There was a widespread understanding that this election [in 2016] was not on the level,” Clinton said during an interview for the latest episode of The Atlantic’s politics podcast, The Ticket. “We still don’t know what really happened.”

“There’s just a lot that I think will be revealed. History will discover,” the Democratic Party’s 2016 presidential nominee continued. “But you don’t win by 3 million votes and have all this other shenanigans and stuff going on and not come away with an idea like, ‘Whoa, something’s not right here.’ That was a deep sense of unease.”

Gusty Winds said...

Kari Lake is right. They outvoted the fraud. The same thing is going to have to happen in Wisconsin if Rebecca Kleefisch or Tim Michels can beat Kenosha burning Tony Evers, and if Ron Johnson is going to keep his Senate seat. GOP candidates that challenge the establishment have to go plus five or ten percent.

The establishment push for easily manipulated and untraceable absentee ballots creates purposeful chaos, confusion, and delays. I purple states like WI, AZ, GA, MI, and PA...it can easily swing the balance of power and override the true will of the majority.

The more the propagandists at the Wash Post and the Milwaukee Journal insist that fraud is a "big lie" and has been "debunked" the more you know it real. It doesn't have to be widespread. It just has to be targeted. It's not that hard to see.

Critter said...

The fraud deniers like WAPO never mention the large volume of evidence of voting fraud in Arizona from 2020. Of course they will be all over any such evidence when Republicans win in 2022 and 2024. BTW, why does WAPO think 2 election officials in Pima County are already gone - one fired and the other resigned over their highly irregular election administration in this week’s primaries? And what does WAPO think of the current Secretary of State running her own election where she is running for governor against Lake? This corruptocrat, a Soros-funded plant, is on MSNBC so often she should be credited as a contributor to their shows.

Eleanor said...

I think it is pretty clear from the election results most Arizona voters believe there is enough fraud in their elections to change the results. Lake carried every county in the state. Even pausing counting the votes in the middle of the night couldn't deny her a legitimate win. Having spent a few years as a resident of Cook County, IL, I can say if voter fraud is allowed to go on long enough, it becomes a source of pride. There's only a small window to stop it before voting fraud becomes cultural.

John henry said...

In 2004 Hugh Hewitt wrote a book called "they can't cheat if it's not close"

My recollection is that the thrust of the book was 1) vote in person on election day so they don't know how much cheating is needed. 2) VOTE so that the margin is too big to be overcome by cheating.

Looking for that I also ran across a post about "the margin of fraud" in the 2014 Arizona 2nd District.

https://www.smallestminority.org/2014/11/the-margin-of-fraud/

This election has to be scary for the fascists. A bunch of MAGAistas running the state? Assuming they win the general, of course. In charge of election integrity with 2 years to clean the stables?

I suspect the Arizona Gop establishment will be working hard to elect demmies in November.

John LGBTQBNY Henry

Roy Jacobsen said...

My hatred for the lazy and dishonest habit of slapping the word "deniers" on people who raise questions about the latest lefty cause du jour is approaching incandescence.

Gusty Winds said...

election deniers

...climate deniers...conspiracy theorists...all Orwellian manipulation of language and an evil effort to make those that question the establishment heretics and outlaws. The Catholic Church used to be great at that.

"Denier" is the choice word because it is so closely associated with "Holocaust Denier". And we all know those people are screwed in the head.

I don't believe anyone is a "vote fraud denier". EVERYONE knows the fraud ain't zero. And having returned here to the Althouse blog a month ago after two years out...it seems Althouse is a little more open to question in election integrity that she was in Nov 2020. I assumed back then it was simply out of fear.

It just matters if 1) maintaining power is more important to you than real, legal election results 2) you fear the fallout when fraudulent elections are proven (they already have been). The fallout would be HUGE. The J6 Committee and the J6 political prisoners being held are meant to stoke that fear. People don't deny voter fraud, they just support it, or are afraid to look at it.

We live in dangerous times. Both for the people that have the courage to question the corruption, but probably more so for the people that believe the fraud benefits America or are just afraid. They're lighting matches around a gas can. It's the same dynamic as COVID, and post-9/11 liberty sacrifices. They are willing to trade liberty and self governance for a false sense of security.

In reality they are just "totalitarian" deniers.

Mike Sylwester said...

Seth Keshel's lecture about the election

Trump won 18 of the 19 bellwether counties

Trump won all four bellwether states

Trump won 94% of the votes in the Republican Party's primary elections

Trump got many more votes in 2020 than in 2016

Many more people registered as Republicans than as Democrats

The Democrats lost 13 seats in the House of Representatives

Michigan and Pennsylvania always vote like Florida -- not not in 2020

Maricopa County in Arizona -- unbelievable

Trump gained big throughout Georgia -- except for Atlanta

Trump gained big among non-White voters

Democrat Party's resistance to election audits.

============

Votes received by the Democrat Candidate:

2008, Obama = 69.5 million votes

2012, Obama = 65.9 million votes

2016, Clinton = 65.9 million votes

2020, Biden = 81.3 million votes

John henry said...

Our president emeritus has been doing really well with his endorsements. So far about 95% have won their primaries.

Tuesday was "da bomb" 100% of his candidates won* kinda like a Hiroshima of elections. Happy bomb day!

*Eric did lose but since Eric did win, I'm calling 100%. Your milage may vary.

John LGBTQBNY Henry

MikeR said...

@Robert Marshall Jinx!

Freder Frederson said...

you fear the fallout when fraudulent elections are proven (they already have been)

Just because you keep saying that fraud is proven, does not make it so. Even the little less insane Republicans admit that they have no proof that widespread fraud occurs, they "just know in their bones" that massive fraud occurred.

Steven Colbert had a word for this: "truthiness".

Hunter Biden's tax payer funded Hooker said...

The hack D chi com press has your narrative.

Birches said...

The Corporate Media focuses on Lake's voting talk, but her border talk is why she won every county.

Gusty Winds said...

Blogger Freder Frederson said...

Even the little less insane Republicans admit that they have no proof that widespread fraud occurs

I didn't say widespread voter fraud has been proven. I said targeted voter fraud has been proven and there is a HUGE difference. And to claim "no proof" is just idiotic bullshit.

These Orwellian tactics that people like you support and fall for means we're not even speaking the same language anymore. Their efforts are working. People like you are the reason our "democracy" and constitutional republic are coming to and end.

Hunter Biden's tax payer funded Hooker said...

Freder -
Just because you say it cannot be proven doesn't make the fraud and cheating by your corrupt team - a reality.

Heywood Rice said...

NYT

Aug. 1, 2022

Accusations that hundreds of ballots were cast in Arizona in 2020 in the name of dead voters are unfounded, the state’s Republican attorney general said on Monday in a sharply worded letter to the president of the Arizona Senate, who has advanced false claims of voter fraud.


The attorney general, Mark Brnovich, wrote in his letter to Senator Karen Fann that his office’s Election Integrity Unit had spent “hundreds of hours” investigating 282 allegations submitted by Ms. Fann, as well as more than 6,000 allegations from four other reports. Some of them “were so absurd,” he wrote, that “the names and birth dates didn’t even match the deceased, and others included dates of death after the election.”

The claims in Ms. Fann’s complaint stemmed from a heavily criticized audit of the 2020 election that the company Cyber Ninjas conducted last year in Arizona’s largest county, Maricopa. That audit found no evidence for former President Donald J. Trump’s claims that the election had been stolen from him; in fact, it counted slightly fewer votes for Mr. Trump and more for Joseph R. Biden Jr. than in the official tally.

Gusty Winds said...

John henry said...I suspect the Arizona Gop establishment will be working hard to elect demmies in November.

You're absolutely correct. The voter fraud and election integrity is not just a Democrat effort. It's an establishment effort. The GOP establishment still cannot understand why its core voting base abandon them in 2016. The are just as thirsty to hold on to power as are the establishment Democrats, along with Americans who benefit from them. University and College employees. Public school employees and Teachers Unions.

Liz Cheney even dragged her war mongering father out from hiding yesterday and pushed a campaign commercial stating "Trump was the most dangerous person in America, and lied to his supporters". That's pretty rich coming from Mr. Weapons of Mass Destruction and "they'll greet us a liberators". Twitter liberals LOVED it.

Dick Cheney is willing to do to the same thing to the American people as he was willing to do to the Iraqi civilians he killed. He is in full support of America detaining political prisoners...and has his daughter out there doing his dirty work.

hawkeyedjb said...

Birches said...
"The Corporate Media focuses on Lake's voting talk, but her border talk is why she won every county."

The MSM will never - not once, ever - ask Kari Lake a question about border security. All questions will be about election fraud, and her answers will be characterized as "debunked." If Lake is as smart as her supporters think, she will turn every question into a border security question.

Heywood Rice said...

I didn't say widespread voter fraud has been proven. I said targeted voter fraud has been proven and there is a HUGE difference.

Good one, Snowball.

hawkeyedjb said...

"That audit found no evidence for former President Donald J. Trump’s claims that the election had been stolen from him..."

Apparently Trump's claims must be true, since the evidence to the contrary is based on a fraudulent audit. That's unfortunate for the audit deniers who have consistently called it "Fraudit."

Maynard said...

There is going to be a lot of talk about "extremist" Republican candidates in the next 3 months. The Weasel Kelly has already started on Blake Masters here in AZ.

The amount of money in Dem campaigns is astounding. We will be blanketed in the media with fear of Trump extremists.

When was Trump ever a right winger? When the DNC media decided that was the new meme.

Mike Sylwester said...

Arizona became ground zero for unfounded 2020 election conspiracies

In 2014, Crimea conducted a referendum on separating from Ukraine and joining Russia. The vote in favor was 97%. (The voter turnout was 83%).

When some people accuse that that election was rigged, does The Washington Post ever write that such accusations are ....

* unfounded

* baseless

* debunked

* lies

* a Big Lie

????????

Of course not!

At The Washington Post, such words are written only -- always -- about people who accuse the USA's 2020 election of being rigged.

When the subject is about referendums in Ukraine, such accusations always are treated as being plausible.

Gusty Winds said...

It all boils down to this:

“No organized, wide scale fraud" is the defense against the allegations and proof of *targeted* fraud in specific swing state cities and counties.

This is misdirection aimed at low-information voters, which is most of the American public.

Big Mike said...

No one is gullible enough to believe that there was honest vote counting in Milwaukee, in Maricopa County, or in Fulton County. No one. The Post can try name calling and mud slinging all it wants, but there’s this thing called reality that gets in the way.

If Joe Biden’s term of office was successful, then maybe the US population could be persuaded to overlook the election thievery, but no one is gullible enough to accept the premise that this is not one of the worst presidencies in the history of the Republic, either.

Drago said...

John Henry: "This election has to be scary for the fascists. A bunch of MAGAistas running the state? Assuming they win the general, of course. In charge of election integrity with 2 years to clean the stables?

I suspect the Arizona Gop establishment will be working hard to elect demmies in November."

Completely correct.

And when those McCainiac GOPe-ers finish working hand in glove with dems in AZ to thwart election reform, the Sebastians of the world will blame the reformers, call them icky, criticize them for alienating the pro-dem suburban gals, and say the reformers need to shut up and make way for more GOPe squishy candidates.

Inga said...

“2. It is unlikely that aversion to Donald Trump would generate over 81 million votes for Biden nationwide, particularly when Trump's vote totals increased by over 10 million votes from 2016.”

It may seem unlikely to you, but that is what happened and whoever runs, even old man Biden, will get even more votes in 2024. With the overreach by Republicans on abortion and possibly same sex marriage, the continued subservience to Trump, non Trumpists and Democrats will reject him in even bigger numbers. In 2020 I said even the dog catcher would win over Trump, even more so in 2024. People are coming out to vote in larger numbers across the board, but any candidate running against Trump for president will win. Of course you may disagree, we’ll just have to wait and see, eh?

Heywood Rice said...

“No organized, wide scale fraud" is the defense against the allegations and proof of *targeted* fraud in specific swing state cities and counties.

This is a classic distinction without a difference in that when the word "widespread" is used it means large enough to reverse the election results whether "targeted" or not.


A distinction without a difference is a type of logical fallacy where an author or speaker attempts to describe a distinction between two things where no discernible difference exists. It is particularly used when a word or phrase has connotations associated with it that one party to an argument prefers to avoid. - Wikipedia

Charlie said...

I don't know anything about her but I would vote for her.....if only because she said this to a CNN reporter:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bU13GBDoXjE

Jamie said...

Just because you keep saying that fraud is proven, does not make it so. Even the little less insane Republicans admit that they have no proof that widespread fraud occurs, they "just know in their bones" that massive fraud occurred.

Let me try!

Just because you keep saying that this was the most secure election ever, does not make it so.

And throwing in the words "widespread" and "massive" whenever you want to discount what many of us suspect - that needle-moving fraud may have happened in very particular, utterly Democrat-controlled areas of battleground states - is right up there with removing the word "illegal" from the statement, "Conservatives are against illegal immigration": it completely changes the meaning of what you say.

And even you, Freder, can't deny that there were certainly:

* new permission and enthusiastic Democrat encouragement of massive mail-in balloting with no justification needed,

* ballot harvesting on the pretext that, you know, COVID,

* executive-order changes in state electoral regulations leading up to the election, in states where state legislatures alone are allowed to make such changes,

* complete lack of - or "listen to this new Republican conspiracy theory"-based - press coverage of the Hunter Biden laptop story among all press outlets that endorsed Biden,

* and a crazy number of votes cast for a candidate who poked his head up approximately as often as Punxatawney Phil.

If the candidates were reversed, would you think everything was on the up-and-up?

Lurker21 said...

Nowadays you're either an "election denier" or a fraud denier.

Isn't there more evidence of fraud and corruption in our 2020 election than in the 2004 Ukrainian election that was used to justify a coup? The story that the Ukraine election was stolen was promoted by the media like the story that our last presidential election wasn't. In both cases there wasn't any serious investigation by Big Media.

The problem is that most voters don't want 2022 and 2024 to be a referendum on whether Trump was cheated. It reinforces the idea that it's all about Trump's narcissism, The problem with Masters is that he said a lot of other nutty stuff down through the years (going back before Trump came on the scene).

I've come across a lot of people online who want all the "RINOs" taken out and replaced with people who agree with them (this goes back way before Trump). The problem is that if you've said the kind of things they've said online under your own name, you'll never get elected. Also, in some districts, a RINO is the best one can hope for. And the candidates you do manage to get elected may turn out to be as opportunistic and corruptible as those they replaced.

Sebastian said...

Drago, my man! (You do identify as a man, right?)

"And when those McCainiac GOPe-ers finish working hand in glove with dems in AZ to thwart election reform, the Sebastians of the world will blame the reformers, call them icky, criticize them for alienating the pro-dem suburban gals, and say the reformers need to shut up and make way for more GOPe squishy candidates."

For the record, not that there's much point: I oppose McCainiacs wherever I can. I favor stricter election laws than those proposed by Trumpist GOPers. I favor reformers who know what they are doing, but I do not like GOP nominees to be witless clowns--I'm OK with "icky," just not with self-defeating stupidity in winnable situations. I believe in rational voting strategies that get the right-most candidate elected, which in some states will require support from nice women. In some cases, squish is the best we can get--Collins in Maine. In some cases, squish is a waste--Romney in Utah. I have no opinion on AZ. I do have a question: when Lake says she beat the fraud, what was the fraud she referred to?

Amadeus 48 said...

Hi Inga--I'll note the following points in my comment above:

"3. Something happened in 2020 to generate these results. A full analysis and explanation would be in the public interest.
"4. The uniform denial by the news media that there is anything to be investigated or explained heightens suspicion that unusual and unprecedented election practices resulted in these outcomes. Their lack of curiosity is curious. Is there something to hide?"

Also, the last line of my comment is not an endorsement of Donald Trump:

"Unfortunately, Donald Trump and his acolytes will keep pushing the fraudulent election button with the effect of dragging our nation into the Gotterdammerung of four more years of Democratic rule."



Rocco said...

Amadeus 48 said:
The uniform denial by the news media that there is anything to be investigated or explained heightens suspicion that unusual and unprecedented election practices resulted in these outcomes. Their lack of curiosity is curious. Is there something to hide?

Arizonans voted for common-sense election control, just like they have in (Western) Europe.

Heywood Rice said...

In 2014, Crimea conducted a referendum on separating from Ukraine and joining Russia. The vote in favor was 97%. (The voter turnout was 83%).

When some people accuse that that election was rigged, does The Washington Post ever...


This smells like a red herring.

A red herring is something that misleads or distracts from a relevant or important question. It may be either a logical fallacy or a literary device that leads readers or audiences toward a false conclusion. A red herring may be used intentionally, as in mystery fiction or as part of rhetorical strategies (e.g., in politics), or may be used in argumentation inadvertently.

The term was popularized in 1807 by English polemicist William Cobbett, who told a story of having used a strong-smelling smoked fish to divert and distract hounds from chasing a rabbit.
- Wikipedia

Heywood Rice said...

No one is gullible enough to believe that there was honest vote counting in Milwaukee, in Maricopa County, or in Fulton County. No one.

Because I say so.

Proof by assertion, sometimes informally referred to as proof by repeated assertion, is an informal fallacy in which a proposition is repeatedly restated regardless of contradiction and refutation.The proposition can sometimes be repeated until any challenges or opposition cease, letting the proponent assert it as fact, and solely due to a lack of challengers (argumentum ad nauseam).In other cases, its repetition may be cited as evidence of its truth, in a variant of the appeal to authority or appeal to belief fallacies.

This fallacy is sometimes used as a form of rhetoric by politicians, or during a debate as a filibuster. In its extreme form, it can also be a form of brainwashing.

Hunter Biden's tax payer funded Hooker said...

People love chi com viruses and insider above-the-law family crooks like the Bidens. Plus the inflation is amazing.

hombre said...

Most recently Trump supporters refer to the 2020 election as "rigged" which is undeniable. If "voter fraud" can be defined as "violating the law with intent to alter the outcome of an election." Considerable evidence has been adduced to support allegations of widespread fraud.

Widespread denial by Democrat elites and their media pimps plus their shameless opposition to meaningful election reform likely means they will cheat again. Acceptance of the denial by rank and file Democrats qualifies them as chumps.

jim5301 said...

A challenge for any of you. Give me your best evidence of fraud in the 2020 presidential election. Be as specific as possible. Then we can have a full objective discussion of the claim.

Lurker21 said...

The problem with the bellwether counties. There were 35 counties that voted for the winner in every election from 1980 to 2012. In 2016 19 of them voted for Trump and 16 of them voted for Clinton. In 2020 18 of the 19 voted for Trump, but they were already "preselected" to vote for him because they'd chosen him 4 years earlier. The bellwether counties that remained after 2015 were more rural than the rest of the country and more likely to vote for Trump. That's not to say that the election wasn't stolen, but the bellwether counties are not evidence that it was.

Freder Frederson said...

And even you, Freder, can't deny that there were certainly:

Repeating all this as though it "proves" there was fraud is exactly the point I was making. You've got a lot of random facts (and I don't know what the hell the relevance of the Hunter Biden laptop) that simply do not prove that there was widespread fraud.

This is a classic distinction without a difference in that when the word "widespread" is used it means large enough to reverse the election results whether "targeted" or not.

It is a distinction with a difference. There are certainly instances of fraud where people got caught voting in two jurisdictions or someone votes for their incompetent relative (although in recent history these cases seem to happen on both sides of the aisle), but to claim that 16 million or so fraudulent votes were cast is just ridiculous. Just the number of people who would have to be involved makes this extremely unlikely.

Birches said...

Sebastian, the fact that you keep using the corporate media viewpoint to discredit Lake isn't a good way to deny you're a McCainiac.

Sniff, sniff. "She's just not our kind of people dear "

Joe Smith said...

You can't always count on out-voting the fraud.

I recommend long jail sentences for voter fraud...by either party.

Drago said...

Sebastian: "I have no opinion on AZ. I do have a question: when Lake says she beat the fraud, what was the fraud she referred to?"

LOL

There you go. No wonder you still supported Raffensberger and his staff after their lying publicly about the Trump phone call to assist the dems in their shampeachment efforts was exposed as well as working with their zuckerbucks to allow Fulton Co to pull off their fraud.

So, you want a "national voting strategy" huh? Well, gee, why didn't you just come out say Mitch McConnell should simply handpick all the candidates.

Lurker21: "Nowadays you're either an "election denier" or a fraud denier.

Isn't there more evidence of fraud and corruption in our 2020 election than in the 2004 Ukrainian election that was used to justify a coup?"

Shhhh! The answer is "yes", but it makes the non-icky republicans like Sebastian uncomfortable.

Heywood Rice said...

At The Washington Post, such words are written only -- always -- about people who accuse the USA's 2020 election of being rigged.

When the subject is about referendums in Ukraine, such accusations always are treated as being plausible.


It's ridiculous to expect the US media to cover referendums in Ukraine or anywhere else in the world with the same amount of detail as the do with US elections, it's obviously apples and oranges. The 2020 USS election results have been examined in such detail for so long that pretending the results are still pending would not be responsible journalism. Interestingly, I can't find anything about the any of the investigations of election fraud using the "elections 2022" tag on this blog.

Drago said...

Charlie: "I don't know anything about her but I would vote for her.....if only because she said this to a CNN reporter:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bU13GBDoXjE"

tsk tsk tsk

More "icky" behavior that will greatly displease the GOPe-ers.

Why can't Kari just say nice things about democrats so that other GOPe-ers can go to cocktail parties in peace?

Dude1394 said...

Hmmm...when there are more election "deniers" than Biden supporters whatcha going to do?

Dude1394 said...

Her and Abbott are going to be sending a BUNCH of folks to washington by buses. I think we should give them a free bus ticket and 1K bucks to go. It will save us money in the short and the long run.

In fact, 5k would probably be about right.

Dude1394 said...

Hmmm...extremely unlikely it had an effect on the outcome eh? But for some reason we had a multitude of analysis on the Bush/Gore election. NYTimes/WashPost/etc. all did an after the face investigation on it.

But now, anyone questioning it is just a denier.

Propaganda up and down the road.

mccullough said...

“Thank you for voting for me in our fraudulent voting process.

Since I won, the fraud wasn’t effective.

Vote for me in November so we can find out if our fraudulent voting process is effective.”

hombre said...

Jim5301: "Give me your best evidence of fraud in the 2020 presidential election."

The film "2000 mules" provides significant evidence.

But that's water under the bridge. Better yet, suppose you explain the Democrats rabid opposition to voter ID, a practice followed by most democracies in the world as the best protection against voter fraud.

hombre said...

Freder: "... but to claim that 16 million or so fraudulent votes were cast is just ridiculous."

Who's claiming that - outside your imagination?

Aggie said...

As I was following the election coverage, I noticed on various progressive sites (NTV WaPo, NPR, etc) the short bios provided for the candidates. Kari Lake is an 'election denier', a 'Trump supporter' other candidates have other broad-brush pejoratives assigned to them, and so on. But sure, it's 'un-biased'.

Now, a collection of professional election monitors, people who have administered elections in foreign countries like Iraq, Venezuela, Boznia, and other troubled areas, people with a depth of practical election experiences, these people have written extensively on the 2020 election in their own country. They all seem to reach the same conclusion, very quickly: Virtually every red flag known to the process, every statistical fluke with a proven track record, these stars have all aligned in a highly unlikely way that indicates widespread fraud. They use words like 'beyond doubt'.

Further, the unique nature of election fraud has been highlighted: We use an anonymous ballot system. Once ballot security measures are circumvented or compromised, once un-vetted ballots are allowed into the system, it becomes impossible to prove fraud. Not 'hard'; 'impossible'. The act of relaxing ballot security is in fact an indication of upcoming fraud. And the Democrats, through 'lawfare' in the year preceding the election, did exactly that, methodically, collaboratively, and on an interstate scale.

Now answer me this: A measurable percentage of the population believes the 2020 election results are highly suspect, for the reasons above - plus, a lack of transparency, unexplained deviations from process, resistance to audits, destruction of federally-protected ballot information, etc. These people, millions of them, are pejoratively labeled 'deniers', drawing on the age-old Holocaust deniers, meaning they are anti-social, psychopathic fringe people with erratic and unlikeable traits.

And yet Stacy Abrams, all by herself, continues to be adamant that she won the governor's election in - what year was it again? - She maintains this vigorously, insisting on television and in public appearances. She does it all by herself, with nobody else taking up her side in the matter. Why is she not labeled a 'denier'? If Stacy Abrams can fit into anything, she can fit this definition.

It's obvious: What is missing from the discourse is direct confrontation. Once people start forcing confrontation, it will stop, it's the same thing as facing down aa trash-talking loudmouth. It's only indefensible when somebody takes exception, makes it personal and gets in-your-face..

exhelodrvr1 said...

Temujin,
You can add
"Children can miss 1-2 years of school and it won't affect them." and
"THere is no impact for very young children if they have to wear masks."

Joe Smith said...

There was a coup in this country in 2020 but nobody will say it out loud.

Because that would put us firmly in shit hole territory.

pacwest said...

Even though Inga's point about the anti-Trump vote has some validity, we do know the 2020 election was conducted illegally in many instances. There is no doubt about that. State AGs cannot change election procedures written into law by state legislators. If an election is conducted illegally it is a fraudulent election. (This is seperate from the chain of custody issues (illegalities abound), election irregularities (many illegal besides the AG instance), video evidence of polling place activities (some obviously illegal), and mathematical oddities (many more instances than just the 80m Biden votes) which would make any informed person question the 2020 election results.)

It's probably not a trick they can use twice, although they will try (Monkeypox!), but their main thrust this time is more centered on a scheme of registering voters through federal and private agencies. In itself not illegal as long as no party preference is a part of it. If you think there is no party preference being used by these Democrat controlled entities I have a bridge to sell you. So far all of these agencies have resisted FOIA requests and Congressional inquiries for information on how they are proceeding.

As Inga says, we'll have to wait to see if they can get away with it again. We do know they are trying.

jim5301 said...

So the best evidence is a movie (which I admit I haven't seen because I don't want to give Trump my $ - wonder why he wouldn't make it available for free?) made more than one year after the election, that Barr laughed at, and there are dozens of articles refuting its main claims? Have you read any of them?

I have no problem with voter ID.

realestateacct said...

I thought it was interesting that the establishment candidate against Lake expressed confidence on the night of the primary that when all the votes were counted she would prevail. Maybe it's gotten too hot in Maricopa County to haul boxes of ballots around. I resent the gratuitous dismissal of vote fraud claims by the corporate press. I don't know and they don't know if fraud was decisive in Arizona in 2020. There certainly was some. I recommend Dinesh D'Souza's "2000 Mules" which does not seem to overstate the evidence.

realestateacct said...


Some evidence
https://www.truethevote.org/police-raid-nonprofits-in-2000-mules-ballot-trafficking-investigation/

There are guilty pleas in this case.

True the Vote also exposed voter fraud by a Republican in North Carolina but the press was willing to cover that.

MalaiseLongue said...

@Heywood Rice: " . . . when the word 'widespread' is used it means large enough to reverse the election results whether 'targeted' or not."

Pure sophistry. Congratulations.

In the context of fraud, the term "widespread" alludes to the possibility that a large number of individuals have committed voter fraud (for example, by voting twice, filling out one or more individual fraudulent ballots, and so on). Voter fraud, as often noted, is relatively rare and thus unlikely to affect the outcome of an election.

By contrast, the term "targeted" alludes to the possibility that one or more individuals in a small number of precincts in a small number of swing states have conspired to commit electoral fraud (for example, by banishing poll watchers, destroying the chain of custody around mail-in ballots, mixing actual ballots with manufactured and/or smuggled ballots, double- and triple-counting ballots in the middle of the night after poll watchers have been told that vote counting has been halted, and so on).

Do you see the difference?

hombre said...

I don't recall where, but I watch 2000 Mules for free. There is no reason to think Trump would get the proceeds from D'Souza's movie.

The film was produced after months of research. So far its critics have not "refuted" its claims, they have merely denied them. The documentary provides ample evidence, including videos of "mules stuffing ballot boxes, to support its claims. Denials by the media are not evidence, regardless of what Democrats think. Similarly, denial that the 2020 election was rigged is not proof that it wasn't.

As for voter ID, the relevant question is: Why do Democrats vehemently oppose it if not to facilitate fraud?

Jamie said...

Repeating all this as though it "proves" there was fraud is exactly the point I was making.

Does it, though? The points at the bottom of my post were not intended to "prove there was fraud" but to show, using facts no one denies, that there was a thumb on the scale.

You've got a lot of random facts

Not random.

(and I don't know what the hell the relevance of the Hunter Biden laptop)

Heavy thumb on the scale. If Eric Trump's laptop had been found under similar circumstances, with similar stuff on it, would you consider national reporting or not reporting on it to be relevant to the upcoming election?

that simply do not prove that there was widespread fraud.

There's that word again!

The person other than Freder, who is making good use of Wikipedia to pass his logic class:

This is a classic distinction without a difference in that when the word "widespread" is used it means large enough to reverse the election results whether "targeted" or not.

... even though this is a misuse of the term "distinction without a difference." "Widespread" means "spread widely," not "just big enough." The latter definition would mean that you could call a deadly dose of ricin "widespread" rather than "almost infinitesimally small, but still deadly." And back to Freder:

It is a distinction with a difference. There are certainly [bipartisan] instances of [small-scale] fraud, but to claim that 16 million or so fraudulent votes were cast is just ridiculous.

And as has been pointed out almost ad infinitum, those of us who believe the 2020 election was suspect and we need to tighten things the hell up do not believe that 16 million votes were fabricated. Which I suspect you know, but cling bitterly to your straw men (a correct use of the term) of "widespread" and "massive" instead of addressing our point: that Democrat-led changes in election procedures have resulted in an election process that cannot be demonstrated to be honest - even if it is.

My further contention is that for at least some Democrats, this is in fact the point of them, not just an unfortunate side effect. But I don't have "proof" of this contention.

Jamie said...

Way shorter me: come on, Freder, you can do better than this. I really would like to hear someone from the other side discuss my side's actual opinions rather than the side in their heads.

Bruce Hayden said...

“Watched several interviews with Lake. She's the female version of Trump. She vowed to seized control of the border. A breath of fresh air. The general election will be fun to watch.”

One of the reasons that it will be fun is that the Dem Secretary of State, who was one of the perpetrators of the election fraud two years ago, is running against her for Governor. Will she use her current position as Secretary of State to cheat herself into the governorship? A lot of Trump voters are going to be looking for just that. Looking back, much of what she did, violating state law to reduce or eliminate voter integrity measures is fairly obvious in retrospect. An awful lot of people are watching her very closely right now, to see if she tries the same sort of thing this time.

What Freder and the leftists here try to pretend away is that Trump probably won the state by hundreds of thousands of votes. Between the audit and the Senate investigation, probably over a half million questionable votes were found, while Biden’s official margin of victory was 10k or so, and Kelly’s was 20k. It was gross - maybe grosser than in the other states that look to having been stolen, because the Dems had such a large margin to overcome.

How do I know that voter fraud was a real thing in AZ in November of 2020? Because I was there. We have a house in Maricopa County (right by the border between NE Phoenix and NW Snottsdale). Driving around every day, the difference couldn’t have been more stark. Red MAGA hats, T shirts, and bumper stickers everywhere. None for Biden. None. A Biden sign or two would show up in the median between lanes, and the next day, they would be surrounded by a dozen or so Trump signs. Spontaneous demonstrations on major corners with signs saying Honk For Trump. Etc. Biden and Harris couldn’t get more than a handful to their rallies, while Trump always had crowds greatly overflowing the venue he was speaking at. It was electric, and in my 70 years (then) I had never seen the like.

So don’t discount the Trump supporter and supported candidate running against the Secretary of State who helped facilitate the voter fraud running in part on the 2020 election fraud. Protecting the border will also be important to her campaign.


Jamie said...

a movie... made more than one year after the election, that Barr laughed at, and there are dozens of articles refuting its main claims?

I haven't seen it either. But you're also hunting straw men. "Made more than one year after the election" - why is that a problem, if it took that long to investigate and then produce? If it had been ready to go a month after the election, would you honestly have taken that as something in its favor, or rather as a sign that Trump had his lies all ready to go before the election?

"That Barr laughed at" - what, because he's the Pope? What, because up to that point, he was a Trump sycophant?

"there are dozens of articles refuting its main claims" - from the same outlets that pushed the pee tape and absolutely failed to do their journalistic duty with regard to the relationship between Hunter Biden, Joe Biden, and the strong indication of foreign influence buying? Maybe they were just all having an off couple of years and are now back on their game, but why are they an authority I should trust any more?

pacwest said...

I have no problem with voter ID.

How do you feel about ballot harvesting and chain of cutody requirements?

How do you feel about AGSs unconstitutionally changing election procedures?

Are these concerns? What would you recommend to restore faith in our elections?

Gusty Winds said...

The best thing about Kari Lake is she is taking on Democrat Katie Hobbs who IS Arizona's Secretary of State. Hobbs was in charge of Arizona's fraudulent election in 2020, and Kari Lake isn't afraid to call it out. Hobbs is still in charge of the election in 2022, so if you don't think Maricopa County is gonna be in full fledge fraud mode, you're naïve.

Epic battle. Too bad our networks aren't honest enough to broadcast the Arizona gubernatorial debates like they are the J6 hearings. It really does have national implications. But..our media is in on the fraud cover up as well.

The GOP nominee contenders in WI aren't brave enough. They talk about election integrity, but are scared to take it head on. Madison, WI freaks all these people out. Problem is if you just want to "move on" and not address 2020, you're stuck with the same fraudulent system. If you think "well they got away with it in 2020, and they won't do it again" you're living in a fantasy world.

Rabel said...

Former Vice President Cheney learned that there were were still a few people out there who don't hate his fucking guts and set out to change that.

Original Mike said...

Blogger tim maguire said...
"election deniers...election deniers...unfounded...conspiracies...election deniers"
Wow, tell us how you really feel! (And then go buy yourself a thesaurus, you semi-literate hack!)"


I listened to NPR for the first time in a long time a couple of days ago. There was an election related piece and I was really struck with how often they referred to claims of 2020 election fraud as untrue, false, debunked, pick your adjective, sometimes twice in the same sentence. It was really something.

When I encounter that type of behavior in my day-to-day life I know exactly what it stems from.

Sebastian said...

Birches: "Sebastian, the fact that you keep using the corporate media viewpoint to discredit Lake"

You mean, the "corporate media viewpoint" that favors stricter election procedures than any thus far proposed anywhere? Discrediting Lake, about whom know next to nothing, by saying I have "no opinion" on AZ? Or was asking what the "fraud" she referred to actually was a form of "discrediting"?

Drago: "No wonder you still supported Raffensberger and his staff after their lying publicly about the Trump phone call to assist the dems in their shampeachment efforts"

I didn't "support Raffensperger." I just thought it was crazy for Trump and his "rural voters" to hand Dems a victory in response. It's even crazier not to learn from the GA fiasco.

"So, you want a "national voting strategy" huh?"

I don't want a "national voting strategy." As I said, the best strategy "depends." The only common strategy I favor is to pick the right-most electable candidate. My personal preference is also to keep clowns out--Oz, Herschel, etc.--and not to give Dems easy wins.

Jim at said...

Just because you keep saying that fraud is proven, does not make it so.

Freder is a fraud denier.

Jim at said...

and whoever runs, even old man Biden, will get even more votes in 2024.

Not a fucking chance.

Drago said...

Rabel: "Former Vice President Cheney learned that there were were still a few people out there who don't hate his fucking guts and set out to change that."

Careful now. That's the kind of "icky" talk that will get you roundly harrumphed by "respectable" republicans around here.

Achilles said...

Amadeus 48 said...

Unfortunately, Donald Trump and his acolytes will keep pushing the fraudulent election button with the effect of dragging our nation into the Gotterdammerung of four more years of Democratic rule.

No. That wont be Trump's fault or his supporters.

It will be the kneelers and the traitors in the Republican party that result in what you say.

People like you.

Traitors like Ducey, Raffensburger, Kemp, Vos, Ryan.

Republicans are just as tied into the Fraud machine as democrats.

There is a reason that the NeverTrumpers don't want to make election fraud an issue.

Freder Frederson said...

Heavy thumb on the scale. If Eric Trump's laptop had been found under similar circumstances, with similar stuff on it, would you consider national reporting or not reporting on it to be relevant to the upcoming election?

Considering the dearth of coverage about the Saudis giving Jared Kushner 2 billion dollars, you are incorrect in assuming that there would be massive coverage of Eric Trump's laptop. (Just like you all are still going on about Hillary's emails while not caring that the Trump administration used private email accounts, cell phones, and removed official (and classified) documents that should have been sent to the National Archives.

hawkeyedjb said...

"Hobbs was in charge of Arizona's fraudulent election in 2020, and Kari Lake isn't afraid to call it out."

It's foolish to think that's a winning electoral strategy. Focus on the future, and the important stuff. Though I expect Lake to run a losing campaign focused on 2020.

Iman said...

“Steven Colbert had a word for this: "truthiness".”

I have a word that describes Colbert: Douchebag.

pacwest said...

The only common strategy I favor is to pick the right-most electable candidate. My personal preference is also to keep clowns out--Oz, Herschel, etc.--and not to give Dems an easy wins.

While I agree about Oz and Walker (what the hell is Trump thinking?) the strategy you espouse gets you McCain and Romney tickets. The clock is running out. Time to go all in. It would have been hard to consider Trump "electable". And yet here we are.

Drago said...

Jim at: "Freder is a fraud denier."

Freder is also a Russia Collusion Hoax Denier.

And a Hillary-generated Hoax Dossier Denier.

And a Russian's paid bounties on US soldiers hoax denier.

And a Charlottesville-Trump call nazi's "fine people" hoax denier.

And a Trump said to drink bleach to fight COVID hoax denier.

And a Trump overfed KOI fish in Japan hoax denier.

And a Trump teargassed protesters for a photo op with a Bible hoax denier.

And a Hunter's Laptop is Russian Disinformation hoax denier.

And a Jan 6 was an INSURRECTION(!!!!) hoax denier.

This list is actually endless.

As in "without end".



Iman said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Freder Frederson said...

And as has been pointed out almost ad infinitum, those of us who believe the 2020 election was suspect and we need to tighten things the hell up do not believe that 16 million votes were fabricated.

So approximately how many votes do you think were fabricated. I have seen on this very site people claiming 20 million votes were fabricated. Michael K. contended after the 2016 election that 3.3 million illegal immigrants voted (illegally) in Los Angeles alone. I gave him the benefit of the doubt because if I had taken him literally, that would mean that the entire population of Los Angeles is made up of undocumented immigrants. But even if I grant him the Los Angeles area (rather than just the city), that would mean that every single foreign-born man, woman, and child in the Los Angeles area is here illegally, and they all voted for Hillary Clinton.

So unless you can provide some reasonable numbers, you are as full of shit as Michael K.

pacwest said...

Considering the dearth of coverage about the Saudis giving Jared Kushner 2 billion dollars

Not sure what you consider a "dearth of coverage" since it's been all over the news for months and there is a congressional investigation underway. You do know that Kushner is managing the 2b which is earmarked for investment in Israeli business? You do remember the Abrams Accords correct? You might imagine why the Saudis who were actually thinking of joining the AA would choose Kushner's firm, specifically created for the task, as a maanger of that 2b. Note that some of the investment is slated to connect Israeli businesses with majority Muslim countries such as Indonesia. Kushner got commitments from the Saudis that this was what the 2b was for before entering the deal. All in all its pretty much a continuation of the AA by other means. That's a good thing, right?

Trying to conflate the Saudis investing in Israel with HB's laptop is more than a bit of a stretch. Pretty sure the only thing Hunter ever invested in was drugs, hookers, and his Dad's slush fund. I'm not so sure mideast peace really crossed his mind.

Drago said...

Sebastian: "I didn't "support Raffensperger." I just thought it was crazy for Trump and his "rural voters" to hand Dems a victory in response. It's even crazier not to learn from the GA fiasco."

Not only was it Raffensberger and Kemp that handed the dems the victory, Raffensberger is an active collaborator with Schiffty Schiff and Pelosi.

And he thanks you Sebastian for your tireless support.

Greg The Class Traitor said...

Lake’s victory was one of several for prominent election deniers in Arizona.

Just for grins: how many times did WaPo refer to "Trump Russia collusion" hoaxers as "election deniers" in 2018?

Greg The Class Traitor said...

Freder Frederson said...
And as has been pointed out almost ad infinitum, those of us who believe the 2020 election was suspect and we need to tighten things the hell up do not believe that 16 million votes were fabricated.

So approximately how many votes do you think were fabricated.


IIRC there were 70k "indefinitely confined" voters in WI until the WEC announced (illegally) in 2020 that anyone who was afraid of Covid could register as an "indefinitely confined" voter, and vote without providing any sort of photo ID.

Whereupon WI got another 90 k "indefinitely confined" voters.

Note: If you were just afraid of Covid, you could vote absentee. But you had to include a copy of your state ID matching the person you claimed to be voting for. So this was only to help people who didn't have a valid WI photo ID to vote.

I'd say at least 30k dishonest votes in WI

I'd say at least 20k fraudulent votes in GA.

I'll let others chime in for AZ (we know there were people there for whom someone else requested absentee ballots and voted them), NV, MI, and PA

So, Freder, what's your upper bound on how many fraudulent voters there were in those individual States?

Original Mike said...

"If it had been ready to go a month after the election, would you honestly have taken that as something in its favor, or rather as a sign that Trump had his lies all ready to go before the election?"

The national media were claiming there was no election fraud 2 days after the election. I remember thinking "how the hell can you be claiming that so early on?" Absolutely nothing to base it on, they were merely running cover for their team.

Mason G said...

"I have a word that describes Colbert: Douchebag."

Douchebagginess?

Original Mike said...

"Steven Colbert had a word for this: "truthiness"."

So Colbert is a member of the Dan Rather fan club.

In other news, water is wet.

Amadeus 48 said...

Achilles—If Trump is the GOP nominee in 2024, I’ll vote for him. I won’t vote for him in the primaries. There will be choices without all his baggage. I won’t vote for him on a third party ticket.

Trump is not a winner at this point. He lost the House in 2018. He lost the presidency in 2020. He lost the Senate in 2022. He took a hand with four aces and spoiled it. His strategy during and after the 2020 election was a loser’s strategy. Joe Biden showed up with 80 million votes and Trump didn’t do anything to head that off. He just basked in the adoration of people who showed up at his rallies. Then, he held a foolish rally on January 6. The result was a scene that very few Americans can view with pleasure, and those few are at best dupes and fools.

On a more personal note, your rage and resentment towards people that disagree with you is both unpleasant and stupid. Grow up., grandpa. The world is full of people who disagree with its you. Deal with it.