From "Brittney Griner may go to a Russian penal colony. Here’s what you need to know" (WaPo).
Here's the article linked at "our friendly concentration camp": "Putin foe Navalny once described prison life with dark humor. Now his messages are just dark" (WaPo). The "posts" in social media were made, we're told, by "anonymous members of his team," who have somehow received messages from Nalvany, messages written in his "familiar wry style":
“Three things never cease to surprise me: the starry sky above us, the categorical imperative inside us, and the amazing sensation of running the palm of your hand over your freshly shaved head,” he said, having been shaved on entry to the prison....
“The regime, the charter, the daily routine,” he mused in a post [the day he entered the facility]. “The literal fulfillment of endless rules. Obscene language and vulgar words are forbidden. And this ban is strictly observed. Can you imagine a prison where they don’t swear? Scary stuff.”
Former inmates told Russian media that life in Penal Colony No. 2 consists of a constant forced rush, where you are always running late to perform endless meaningless tasks — making your bed over and over, for example....
Describing the dehumanizing prison surveillance... Navalny said it was as if “someone upstairs” read George Orwell’s “Nineteen Eighty-Four” and then said, “Yeah, cool. Let’s do this.”
Navalny’s name on his uniform bears “a beautiful red stripe” designating him as prone to escape. A video above his bed monitors him constantly, but that is not enough. He is awakened every hour at night by a guard who video tapes him and intones, “Two-thirty, prisoner Navalny. Registered in the preventive registry as prone to escape,” a post said. “In his place.”
“And I go back to sleep in peace with the thought that there are people who remember me and will never lose me,” the post continued. “It’s great, isn’t it?... If you look at things with a sense of humor, you can live.”....
[A later post] described the prisoners in black uniforms and hats with ear flaps, doing morning exercises in the snow after being awakened at 6 a.m. and singing the national anthem, “Glory to our free Fatherland,” at precisely 6.05 a.m.
“Just a delight,” the post said. “The loudspeaker on the pole commands, ‘March! Hands by your sides! Ready? On your feet! One, two, three, four!’ And the men in black with beastly faces march, rattling their boots. “At that moment I imagine I’m in a Russian remake of ‘Star Wars,’ where instead of the Imperial Guard, there are convicts in pea coats and fur hats, cigarettes in their mouths. Instead of laser rifles, they carry iron crowbars,” the post continued.
Such writing! As for "the categorical imperative inside us" — I presume this is a reference to Kant's "Groundwork of the Metaphysic of Morals": "Act only according to that maxim whereby you can, at the same time, will that it should become a universal law."
Nalvany is endlessly surprised that the categorical imperative is inside us.
69 comments:
Crap. I guess that means Griner is screwed. Everyone knows men can't sew worth a damn.
Don't worry Brittany. Those nine years will just fly by.
Is the WaPo trying to convince us that socialist Russia punishment is to work in capitalist systems that make money? Because what I see is a warning about how socialist poorly treat prisoners.
I do feel sorry for Griner, but her plight doesn't make the top 100 outrages committed by Russia this year.
‘…and singing the national anthem, “Glory to our free Fatherland,” at precisely 6.05 a.m.’
Enjoy your vacation, Brittney!!
The Russian prison sounds horrible. I suspect it was horrible well before BG was convicted. I suspect it will be horrible after the USA makes a wildly disproportionate trade to free her. I suspect the WaPo won't find the prison conditions newsworthy at that point.
Brittany singing the Russian national anthem daily? The horror!
Sending Grinder to prison is an overt act of War against the American people. Any lack of sympathy showed by you people and Trump is giving aid and comfort to Putin.
Endless archipelagos of categorical imperatives.
It may be different in its specifics, but how different in its essence is this prison from the Washington D.C. prison holding many of the January 6 accused. Prisoners of the latter also describe small cells where they are held in isolation with only one hour per day outside and guards awakening them throughout the night, toilets without paper, inedible food, lack of medical treatments, physical abuse by guards. Amnesty International gave that prison its worst rating on its international scale. Nothing humorous about that for people that have not been tried or convicted. Limited access to legal representation and families. An American gulag which forfeits all higher moral ground internationally.
very correctional facility has a production unit such as a sewing factory..."
"... or a woodworking or metalworking shop."
So, just like in the United States. Only we have a constitutional amendment authorizing literal slavery in our prisons. It's the 13th Amendment.
Who are these idiots who are writing these Griner hagiographies as if she's Papillon in 1930s French Guyana? She's a low rent international drug smuggler not worth the time of the leader of the free world. She violated international drug laws. She deserves to be in prison ... uh ... pardon me ... in a "penal colony."
Maybe she'll meet Dustin Hoffman.
Ordinarily I'd recommend someone like Griner 'not drop the soap', but Russian prisons are significantly more regimented and homosexual-adjacent activity severely frowned upon.
Might agree with him just fine. A real character building experience.
So off the top of my head: the U.S. has "private sector" prisons run by gangs, pretty brutal; Russia has "public sector" prisons, intrusive and dehumanizing. Two visions of the future? In both cases, the rich live somewhere else?
"Modern-day Russian penal colonies have become moneymaking enterprises..."
Maybe they will let her create basketball viral ticktocks? Assuming viral ticktocks make money.
Hope springs eternal.
i saw a movie about this! except, it was a different SR.. I think Georgia?
I feel Griner's sentence was overly long and I'm sure that was to increase the motivation on the part of the US to go forward with the prisoner swap. However, she had to have known the rules since she had been working in Russia on a regular basis over the years. She chose to believe the laws didn't apply to her. I think it would be character building for her to serve a little time in the penal colony.
The left dream of such facilities for their enemies. While actual criminals go free.
Just finished Solzhenitsyn’s Gulag. Frightening how normal people can justify or rationalize the most horrific behavior. The honesty of the author comes through in the knowledge that he could just as easily be the prison guard instead of the prisoner. This has led me to read Hannah Arendt. I expect to be depressed for the next 6 months at least.
On a more relevant note, here in PA about 10 years ago they found a judge near Scranton who had been incarcerating children and getting paid off by the private company running the prison. The specific examples of the “ crimes” committed by the kids were very benign, not worthy of any punishment, but he got a kickback for every kid he jailed. The kids were revenue streams from the state to the company. The judge was tried and found guilty, I believe. I think he is in jail now. It may have been 100+ kids.
Not a lot of sympathy for Greiner here. She did the crime. Not a hero.
I don't have a good reference point for comparisons here. E.g., prisoners being used for cheap labour is common here in the US, and used to be both compulsory and widespread in pretty much all bureaucratic societies. Living conditions in US prisons vary considerably, but a lot of them are pretty dire, especially at the state level. Prisoners are also subject to what could be called "dehumanizing" surveillance. Add to that prison gangs, rape by both guards and prisoners, and life in American prisons is exceedingly grim.
I think it's likely that conditions in Russian prisons, given its brutal Communist past, are a lot worse than US prisons, but it strikes me as a problem of degree, rather than kind.
What is outrageous about Navalny isn't the conditions of his imprisonment so much as that he's imprisoned at all on trumped up political charges.
Same for Griner, except that it sounds like she absolutely did violate Russian narcotics laws. Westerners in China and Southeast Asia regularly seem to get caught and imprisoned (or caned) for violations of foreign narcotics laws. A senior (Western) Toyota executive was arrested for mailing herself pills from the US, although she was eventually released with no charges (the police decided that her public humiliation was enough punishment). I am sympathetic, on the one hand, to the view that the American government should come out strong in defense of all our citizens arrested abroad, even if they're petty crooks -- Lord Palmerston's civis Romanus sum principle -- but on the other hand, a lot of Westerners just don't take foreign narcotics laws seriously, and it's dumb. Like Madison Cawthorn getting caught bringing handguns through airport security dumb. Sure, maybe you just kind of forgot about it, but it's the kind of thing you need to not forget about when you're going to be a guest in a foreign country.
"Brittney Griner may go to a Russian penal colony. Here’s what you need to know" (WaPo)."
Why do I "need to know" anything about a Russian penal colony?
Ann, are you not aware of Kant's epitaph?
Two things fill the mind with ever new and increasing admiration and awe, the more often and steadily we reflect upon them: the starry heavens above me and the moral law within me.
"Act only according to that maxim whereby you can, at the same time, will that it should become a universal law."
Wikipedia: Reality distortion field (RDF) is a term first used by Bud Tribble at Apple Computer in 1981, to describe company co-founder Steve Jobs' charisma and its effects on the developers working on the Macintosh project. Tribble said that the term came from Star Trek, where in the episode "The Menagerie", it was used to describe how the aliens created their own new world through mental force.
Original Mike @ 7:55: Why do you need to know about Russian penal colonies? Because WaPo is selling feelings, and there is nothing more marketable than the feeling that comes from observing punishment and avoiding it oneself. It can be positive and humbling —“There but for the grace of God go I”— or negative —a sadistic frisson. Unclear which is being sold by WaPo.
So her sentence comes with vocational training?
“Crap. I guess that means Griner is screwed. Everyone knows men can't sew worth a damn.”
Can’t keep straight the sexual identities here.
But Griner isn’t going to do much time there. The purpose of the article was to whip up support for them, and given their race, gender, sexual identity, etc, this Administration isn’t going to allow Griner to sit in a Russian jail very long. Of course, the Ruskies know this, and that we have been aiding the Ukrainians in their armed dispute with their natural Russian overlords, which is very likely why Griner was arrested in the first place by said Ruskies, and is being threatened there with harsh consequences. The only real question is how much is the FJB Administration going to have to give up to get Griner free? And remember, the Biden family was well bribed by the Ukrainians back when FJB was VP, so they really can’t give up as much as they otherwise might, because that is the ultimate goal of the Russians - to separate Ukraine from the US here.
"Is the WaPo trying to convince us that socialist Russia punishment is to work in capitalist systems that make money? Because what I see is a warning about how socialist poorly treat prisoners."
Russia isn't really socialist anymore, and the USA treats our prisoners pretty horribly and uses our prisoners as profit generators, as well. Moreover, we incarcerate more people in the USA than Russia or any other nation in the world, by sheer numbers and per capita.
Tell me, was Giner so convinced that the US was such a bad place that certainly she had no real worries whenever she was outside of it, wherever it was?
Everyone keeps saying she had "cannabis" or "pot". She didn't.
She had hashish. Actually, hashish oil but the two are legally the same under federal law.
US Federal sentencing guidelines call for minimum 10 years in a federal "penal colony" (Atlanta, Marion, Leavenworth etc) if she had been caught coming into the US through JFK.
So less time in Russia than US
John LGBTQBNY Henry
Hey at least Brittany won't be oppressed by having to stand and listen to the Star Spangled Banner anytime soon. However, it is a little ironic to see American politicians pleading her case for her - Sheila Jackson Lee and Ted Cruz (through gritted teeth), working the crowd to get a release and/or facilitate a trade for some Russian weapons-dealer psychopath, while thousands of Americans are serving time in American jails for lesser marijuana offenses. Of course the politicians have to do this - she's a Texas-born constituent and they'll be under pressure from members of the rainbows, grievance & protest-class.
But seeing Griner adopting some of these stupid theatrical poses is just ridiculous - wearing the Malcom X spectacles and so on, like she's some kind of prisoner of conscience. I wouldn't lift a finger to help until she makes herself right with her home country. And she ain't done that, yet - all she can show to speak for her case is a long list of unsolicited insults, entitlement, and ingratitude.
I browsed through a book a few years ago by a young Brit of no distinction who made the mistake of entering Russia with two roaches (not the bug kind) in the pocket of a dirty pair of pants.
He had been to a bachelor party in London, partied too hard, packed hurriedly, and barely made his flight--forgetting the remnants of his high.
IIRC he got eight years. Provided a lot of insight into Russia and the Russian official mentality. He was such a naif that when he was allowed after arrest to talk to two men "from the embassy" he didn't realize they were Russians, they were so like Englishmen and he was so desperate.
His explanation to them became his confession, of course.
Griner chose for her own selfish reasons to live and work in a police state. Let her rot.
The press never paid this much attention to conditions within the Uighur prison camps.
There's some 'interesting' pics floating around on reddit and circle recently that is leading many to believe he's not a she. I am definitely in this camp as There's some traits that are definitely not indicative of even an intersex condition (which BTW afflicts less than .0002% of human populations). Griner has the height and the build of a in-vitro male...
...and with everything going on in gender and until I see a vagina I am calling Griner a 'he'. That's a man.
At least they won't harvest Griner's organs like they do in China.
I'm sure that there are many prisons in America where conditions are harsh, but they are several magnitudes of severity harsher in Russia. The most radical distinction between Russian and American prisons, however, is that in America the overwhelming majority of the prisoners are guilty of a crime. I'm not so sure that's true of Russia. Perhaps things are a little better now, but the Gulags were mostly filled with the innocents.
Critter said...
It may be different in its specifics, but how different in its essence is this prison from the Washington D.C. prison holding many of the January 6 accused.
Very, very infuriating but true. And our Patriotic republican senators are all in on it.
Hmmm let's see, get gang-raped frequently by the brothers or be forced to work and be inconvenienced by the man because I am a flight risk.
The russian way looks better.
The Soviet Union owes a huge debt to Nazi Germany. Without the example of Nazi Germany, the Soviet Union would have had the distinction of being the most nightmarish state of its era. Nazi Germany also provided the Soviet Union with its only useful purpose. The USSR provided essential help in the defeat of Nazi Germany. Without Hitler, Stalin would have been a murderous thug without any redeeming qualities. Thanks to Hitler, history must judge him as a murderous thug who helped defeat Hitler. The Western intellectuals who supported Stalin don't look completely despicable. Despicable surely, but not wholly so.
We shouldn't treat Griner as a cause celebre. If the United States believes that she didn't commit the crime she confessed to or that the sentence she received is beyond the pale, our government should conduct an investigation into all Americans arrested and imprisoned abroad to determine what action--if any--the government should take on behalf of all of them. Are we going to trade international arms merchants for every inappropriately imprisoned citizen or just those who hate our country (although she probably doesn't hate sun as much now as she did last year)?
Griner has received an overly harsh citizen. There's much about her that is not sympathetic, but she's an American citizen. I support the efforts being made on her behalf. We even look out for our ingrates.
There were some American citizens who moved to Russia after the Bolshevik Revolution. They wanted to join the Worker's Paradise. Stalin made them renounce their American citizenship and speak out against the inequities of America. Later on, he started to distrust them as he distrusted all people who had been exposed to Western influences. He sent them to the Gulag. I saw a documentary on them. After their release and the fall of Stalin, they were interviewed by the documentary maker. They blamed the United States for not doing enough to secure their release and repatriate them....After her release, don't look to Griner for much gratitude.
RideSpaceMountain said...
There's some 'interesting' pics floating around on reddit and circle recently that is leading many to believe he's not a she
I'd bet a shiny penny or two that the Russian penal system has not only seen Griner naked, but the color of her insides. Whether they would divulge the results publicly would be pretty much a matter of lulz, or leverage.
That’s pretty fucking retarded even for you Howard.
..and in her spare time she can finish her GED.
@Nichevo
Considering the current cultural landscape, what a powerful negotiating tool it becomes, isn't it?
The ability to perpetuate the lie is actually as important as the capacity to tell the truth! For people who value and need the lie that is! Not revealing Griner has a penis (or a very large clitoris) becomes more important than the capture, sentence, and trade itself!
Revealing Griner to be a male (and keeping it secret) is a bigger chip in the game than actually giving the fag back to us itself.
Fuck him. I'd leave him there. Maybe he'll find a rape-husband to hate America's racist culture with him.
They have not "become" that - they were economic enterprises from at least Stalin's time if not before. Mining, timbering etc. It's all in "Gulag..."
"Here's what you need to know." I hate headlines like that, especially since the person writing the article likely knows nothing.
This is not going to help her persecution complex.
"I’d rather be a junkie in a New York City jail than king, queen, and jack of all Europeans."
P.J. O'Rourke
Kant had a number of different "versions" of the Categorical Imperative, the second of which was:
"So act as to treat humanity, whether in your own person or in that of any other, in every case as an end and never as merely a means.”
I still think some of the commenters here are being a bit harsh, but I also believe that Griner did the crime and deserves punishment. This is not the first time she has exhibited ant-social behavior. She's been involved in a couple of on court fights. I am of the opinion that her punishment is too harsh because of the current state of politics, but I am also of the opinion that the US should not go to extraordinary lengths to have her freed. She just is not that important. Now if it were Sue Bird(!).....but Sue Bird would never have been stupid enough to do what Griner did.
If this were the movies, Russian penal colonies would all have basketball teams that compete against each other, with oligarchs betting fantastic sums on the games and bribing corrupt wardens to fix the games. Griner would become a star, but put in jeopardy because she has too much integrity to cheat. Teaming up with a Russian Lesbian anti-corruption officer she would bring the whole rotten edifice down before being returned to the US. As her plane begins descent into NY, she sees the Statue of Liberty and begins singing the Star Spangled Banner, as the other passengers cheer.
I note, with some perplexity, that the reason Griner is in this mess, is that the Russian economy valued her peculiar skills more than ours did.
I'd bet a shiny penny or two that the Russian penal system has not only seen Griner naked, but the color of her insides. Whether they would divulge the results publicly would be pretty much a matter of lulz, or leverage
==========
if penal colony is sex segregated? will Russia act Woke? about where Griner is placed?
Jefferson's Revenge mentions Solzhenitsyn. A Russian prison sounds better than a gulag. Griner's sentence does seem too long, but when one enters a foreign country, it is prudent to be very careful about obeying the law.
The US government should attempt to intercede for any American incarcerated in a foreign land.
Maybe she can make license plates there, sign them, and ship them here to the DMV.
Yosemite, save the turtles, Russian gulag.
Great if you own a Lada...
'Sending Grinder to prison is an overt act of War against the American people.'
You're right. Drug smuggling shouldn't be a crime.
You are overdosing on stupid...
I would say it's a very successful War tactic that Putin has taken. It's quite obvious because it is turning you Trump cucks against an American citizen simply for violating a very minor transgression. Just because you don't agree with her politics you guys are gleefully rejoicing over her imprisonment.
Propaganda and psychological operations are War tactics and you people are falling right into the trap and giving aid and comfort to Putin. At the same time you were whining and crying about the legal entanglements of the insurrectionists. I'm sure Vladimir appreciates your loyalty.
"I’d rather be a junkie in a New York City jail than king, queen, and jack of all Europeans."
P.J. O'Rourke"
Hmmm...I didn't know O'Rourke was an idiot.
Good thing it's not a penile colony...she wouldn't like that very much.
Howard said...
American citizen simply for violating a very minor transgression.
Where is it a "minor transgression" to bring that amount of hashish into a country? Which countries of the world treat it as a "minor transgression"?
Can you name a couple?
It's sure not a "minor transgression" in the United States. Federal sentencing guidelines call for 10 years in US penal colony/penitentiary.
John LGBTQBNY Henry
'Propaganda and psychological operations are War tactics and you people are falling right into the trap and giving aid and comfort to Putin.'
Then get on a plane and fight for your beloved butt buddy Zelensky.
The U.S. is not obligated to save anyone, especially a non-ally.
Put your ass where your mouth is.
If the Ukrainians lose the war, it's not my problem...
Btw, check out all the lib media articles coming out now about all the corruption, and the fact that billions in weapons and aid are unaccounted for.
Some of us (me) were against this Ukraine aid boondoggle/skimming operation from day one.
Sending Grinder to prison is an overt act of War against the American people.
If you're going to do parody, try not to make it so obvious.
Now if it were Sue Bird(!).....but Sue Bird would never have been stupid enough to do what Griner did.
Don't be so sure. She married Megan Rapinoe.
I don't agree with her politics, and am not full pleased with her existence, truth be told.
Howard said...
Sending Grinder to prison is an overt act of War against the American people. Any lack of sympathy showed by you people and Trump is giving aid and comfort to Putin.
Howard is just a one track mind too stupid to get out of his rut.
Griner hating the US and getting caught with dope in Russia is apparently another reason to attack the people he hates.
Get your shots in while you can Howard.
Joe Biden is a disgrace and he is driving all of the decent people away from your side. Soon it will only be the depraved shitheads like you, all alone with Joe Biden or Kamala Harris as your leader.
And we are going to remember that you are depraved shitheads. We are going to lump the NeverTrumpers in with you because they are betrayers as well as depraved Shitheads.
And we are going to treat you accordingly.
Robert Cook said...
Russia isn't really socialist anymore, and the USA treats our prisoners pretty horribly and uses our prisoners as profit generators, as well. Moreover, we incarcerate more people in the USA than Russia or any other nation in the world, by sheer numbers and per capita.
There is a straight line correlation between the incarceration rate of a country and the level of wealth accrued in that country's infrastructure.
There is a certain type of person that just destroys things other people create.
If you want a high trust society you need to incarcerate enough low rust people that the other low trust people are sufficiently scared enough to do the right thing.
"Here’s what you need to know"
About this? Nothing. What lousy click-bait!
Maybe 30% of the weapons we are sending to Ukraine make it to the front lines.
The rest are being sold by corrupt arms dealers.
All good as long as Joe gets his 10%.
We will remember the pieces of shit that are pushing this graft and corruption and called us Putin sympathizers and traitors. You cause these endless wars and the death and famine that are going to follow.
Zelensky is a despot that terrorizes his own people and persecutes his political opponents and censors the media. Just like Biden supporters are doing here.
Our memories will be long.
She is a pawn, and it's unfortunate. I really think it's a bad idea to swap an arms dealer for a WNBA player. We should be able to hang something on Alex Ovechkin and make that trade.
Ftr, I think hashish should be legal under federal law. But the fact remains that it's not.
It's not even legal in some states where marijuana is state law legal
John LGBTQBNY Henry
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