June 23, 2022

"If I don’t know the area, if I don’t know the people, I always carry my handgun."

Said Jaymar Del Rosario, of Elk Grove, California, quoted by the NYT, in "Never Mind Your Wallet. Armed Robbers Want Your French Bulldog. The popular breed has become one of the most expensive in the United States. Some owners have started carrying guns for protection."

Del Rosario is a breeder of French bulldogs, including one named Cashew, which is the new “fluffy” kind, which he seems to be able to sell for $30,000.

Now, I would have thought that bringing a dog along with you would work as an alternative to the gun, that the dog would protect you. But here you see the dog is making you a target for robbery, and you need a gun to protect you from robbers. Be careful about shooting thieves though! You can't use deadly force against someone who is only trying to steal your property. But maybe the thieves will threaten you with their gun, and then perhaps you'll be in self-defense territory.

Much of the article is taken up with information about the breed: It has the shortest life span (4.5 years) and lots of medical problems (what with that flat face people find so cute because it reminds them of themselves).

46 comments:

Narayanan said...

Be careful about shooting thieves though! You can't use deadly force against someone who is only trying to steal your property.
=======
is this leftover from USA slave legacy? or traditional commom law legacy?

Lucien said...

Oh , yes thugs, please, please believe that someone carrying a gun can’t shoot you if you’re only robbing their pet from them.

RideSpaceMountain said...

"Now, I would have thought that bringing a dog along with you would work as an alternative to the gun, that the dog would protect you."

Usually this is the case, unless the assailant is the ATF. In which case fido better have IIIA and be as docile as grandma on vicodin strapped to a wheelchair.

Joe Smith said...

French Bulldogs aren't exactly Cujo...

Rocketeer said...

“Be careful about shooting thieves though! You can't use deadly force against someone who is only trying to steal your property.”

Yeah, that needs to change.

Lem said...

Athens Georgia is dotted with statues of bulldogs, the college football mascot, Georgia Bulldogs.

The thing is those statues look nothing like the current breed of bulldogs.

Mike (MJB Wolf) said...

This article is a mistake. The editor said, “Get out there and get the man on the street angle. See how this ruling relates to Dobbs!” Reporter, probably a millennial looking at his phone, heard the last word as “dogs.” It’s pretty obvious now.

Kevin said...

French bulldogs are crazy cute, but the personality you actually want is a male Bichon.

Please readjust your criminal preferences accordingly.

But stay away from mine because unlike the French Bulldog owners in the West Village and Madison Square Park I am armed

Jonathan said...

I encountered a version of this when our next-door neighbors in TX bought a bulldog so pricey they wouldn't leave it in their back yard. It pursued one of our cats through our open front door and to the steps, and the cat evaded it by walking two steps up the stairs and then laying just out of range. The dog was too fat to move in the z axis.

Jupiter said...

"You can't use deadly force against someone who is only trying to steal your property."

If he's dead, it's not real easy to tell what he was only trying to do.

Mike (MJB Wolf) said...

Mrs. MJB and I are beagle lovers. They love you back and are beautiful dogs. High energy and destined to finish last in obedience class, but very sweet. Big enough bark to discourage burglars but small enough to ride in the car easily. It’s a good idea to carry in California given our high street crime low enforcement environment.

n.n said...

Property? Animal rights to life implies self-defense.

Smilin' Jack said...

You can't use deadly force against someone who is only trying to steal your property.

So why do bank guards have guns?

Ice Nine said...

>Narayanan said...
Be careful about shooting thieves though! You can't use deadly force against someone who is only trying to steal your property.<

"I feared for my life. Property?...what property? Ohh, little Fido here; I see..."

(But, sure...be careful about it indeed.)

Michael K said...

Didn't some celebrity have a French bulldog stolen last year? Madonna?

Old and slow said...

OK Mike (MJB Wolf), I never actually laugh out loud while reading Althouse comments, until today...

Shoeless Joe said...

"You can't use deadly force against someone who is only trying to steal your property"

Point of correction for the prof.....you certainly can use deadly force against someone who is only trying to steal your property. Perhaps such an act wouldn't be wise, depending on who you shot, and / or the level of corruption from local law enforcement. But it can be done.

I mean, if Michael Byrd can get off scot free then anybody can given the right circumstances.

Quaestor said...

French bulldog = fashion statement

Scottish deerhound = dog

readering said...

Who wants a dog with 4.5 year lifespan?

Jim at said...

You can't use deadly force against someone who is only trying to steal your property.

Bull. If the DC cops can murder someone for trespassing, I can waste someone trying to steal my stuff.

S, s and s.

And if that doesn't work, 'I feared for my life, officer.'

Jupiter said...

"So why do bank guards have guns?"

Banks have so arranged their affairs, that people trying to steal their property find it necessary to threaten their personnel.

Biff said...

Via Volokh at Reason.com:

Are People Allowed to Use Deadly Force to Defend Property?

Rt41Rebel said...

As the owner of (now) three French Bulldogs, I have no fear about walking them around my Naples neighborhood every night at 12:30AM. I may live in the only place in the entire country where this is possible. If I eventually develop fear, I'm also ready, willing, and able to conceal carry at that moment.

Hey Skipper said...

"You can't use deadly force against someone who is only trying to steal your property."

I guess it depends on the thief's reaction to your declining to relinquish your property, doesn't it?

Rt41Rebel said...

"Who wants a dog with 4.5 year lifespan?"

That is not correct, although it may be for the "fluffy" variant. Barring medical complications, French Bulldogs have a lifespan of 10-15 years.

Gravel said...

"You can't use deadly force against someone who is only trying to steal your property."

In Texas, you most certainly can. In fact, you can use deadly force to protect your neighbor's property. See Joe Horn.

Will Cate said...

They are hideous little dogs, terribly inbred. $30K? That's insane.

NCWilliam said...

The equation is something like this: one has the right to resist someone stealing your property, which usually will escalate the thug's efforts to assault/battery at which point self-defense is squarely in play.

If we don't have the right to resist someone stealing our property, then the government and the law has no legitimacy.

Tomcc said...

Michael K- "Didn't some celebrity have a French bulldog stolen last year?"
Lady Gaga, who munificently offered a reward "no questions asked" after her dog walker was shot during the crime.

Leon said...

Under a narrow set of circumstances, Texas lets you shoot people for property theft crimes. Still probably best to only shoot someone when in fear of grievous bodily injury or your life.

n.n said...

If the DC cops can murder someone for trespassing

It was a Democrat-approved act of "heroism"... "hisoism" by an... uh, senior actor with superior training, superior position, and force targeting an unarmed woman, caught in a prone position, after failing to calm a riot from progressing. Diversity [dogma] may have been a motive.

Spiros said...

More guns, more homicide.

Leland said...

AKC claims a lifespan for French Bulldogs of 10-12yrs. Google says 10-14yrs. I get that NYT claiming only 4.5 yrs makes it seem like this law abiding person is some gun nut bilking people by selling short lived dogs for $30,000. It just isn’t so.

Tom T. said...

@Michael K, it was Lady Gaga whose French Bulldogs were stolen. The unarmed dog walker resisted the theft and was indeed shot. He lost part of a lung but survived. The alleged shooter was caught but inadvertently released by sheriff's deputies. To my knowledge, he is still on the loose.

narciso said...

it was an inside job, with the shooters,

Josephbleau said...

"Be careful about shooting thieves though! You can't use deadly force against someone who is only trying to steal your property."

Pass over your money chump. Oh, I can't shoot you so I am caught in a technicality! here, take the money, and my gun too!

There is such a thing as strong arm robbery, are you obligated to forfeit your property if you are not as strong?

Ann Althouse said...

The NYT gives this link for the lifespan info: https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-022-10341-6

Bunkypotatohead said...

You can use the gun on the dog when it pisses on your Grande Vivius mattress.

readering said...

Some details from that study linked in the NYT:

Compared to other breeds, many brachycephalic breeds (i.e., breeds of dogs with a short, flat face) had a relatively short life expectancy at age 0, with French Bulldog having the shortest at 4.53 (95% CI: 4.14–5.01) years . . . .

[E]ven within the same breeds, the life expectancy of dogs in Japan was considerably higher than those in the UK10, such as . . . French Bulldog (UK = 4.53 and Japan = 10.2 years).

Breeds that show high levels of potentially life-threatening predispositions that start early in life are likely to have a higher probability of death at younger ages and therefore a decreased life expectancy. Indeed, four brachycephalic breeds (French Bulldog, English Bulldog, Pug and American Bulldog) that showed the shortest life expectancy at year 0 of all 18 breeds in our results are also reported with several predispositions to life-limiting disorders that occur early in life, such as brachycephalic obstructive airway syndrome, spinal disease and dystocia.

[T]he population of French Bulldogs (and other breeds sharing a similar rising trend in popularity) in our dataset are biased towards younger dogs that contribute proportionately more deaths in younger ages in the life table. In contrast, breeds with a decreasing trend in popularity may have an underestimated probability of death at younger ages, resulting in overestimated life expectancy.

AndrewV said...

My sister used to live in Elk Grove, California. So, I can understand wanting to carry a gun there.

MD Greene said...

I lost my trust in law enforcement more than 20 years ago. I was robbed at gunpoint (I saw the gun) in broad daylight by a man who said, "I'll shoot you" three times if I did not give him my handbag. A week or so later, my banker called and said the thief had submitted one of "my" checks to a bank that had released credit for $1,300+ to purchase easily fenced electronics products.

I called the police, the prosecutor and the judge's clerk in the case and volunteered to appear and testify (in that other city) multiple times.

They didn't care about me. Instead, they prosecuted the creep for swindling a bank; his punishment was a remand to drug rehab.

Josephbleau said...

Akshually, you will seldom be robbed if you walk around acting like a dick. You can also act crazy , but in my experience, that is less effective in deterrence value.

Leland said...

I’ll provide this link to the American Kennel Club: https://www.akc.org/dog-breeds/french-bulldog/

Leland said...

The AKC doesn’t make it easy to find their methodology for determining life span. The British Kennel Club does but requires you to email them for life expectancy, which for French Bulldog they claim 9. Here’s a link to their statistical study performed in 2014 (you can check how they did it in 2004 for comparison): https://www.thekennelclub.org.uk/health-and-dog-care/what-we-do-for-dog-health/supporting-scientific-research/kennel-club-health-research/2014-pedigree-breed-health-survey/

Static Ping said...

French bulldogs are notoriously lazy. You would probably get better protection from a chihuahua or some other toy dog.

Skeptical Voter said...

Elk Grove California! I'm headed up to Elk Grove tomorrow--to fly in a model airplane contest over the Saturday-Sunday weekend. Who knew that I should be packing the hand gun I don't own to protect myself against those villainous Northern Californians!