UPDATE: My post consisted of an embedded Reddit post that is now removed. It showed Zelensky, speaking in Ukrainian, and had subtitles that may or may not have been accurate. I don't know why Reddit removed the post.
AND: You can still see the Reddit post here, along with a note that it was removed by moderators. And: "Moderators remove posts from feeds for a variety of reasons, including keeping communities safe, civil, and true to their purpose."
The subreddit, r/nextfuckinglevel, is "A subreddit for gifs and videos that are next fucking level!" My guess is that they don't want that subreddit to be updates about Ukraine.
Posts
118 comments:
Wasn't our strategy always obvious- we are quite willing to fight this war right down to the last Ukrainian, even if our words might have led the Ukrainian government to think something else. It needed to be communicated to the Ukraine government that we would not be sending troops or air power to help them in the case of a Russian invastion- that they would be on their own if that happened. From the public words of our present government, this message wasn't communicated properly in the months leading up to the invasion, and the Ukrainians now find themselves in a bind.
A long protracted struggle is the worse outcome for the Ukrainians, but there are worse outcomes for the world as a whole, and it is those outcomes that have to be avoided regardless of what is required to do so.
Zelensky wants the US and/or NATO to start World War III with Russia over The Ukraine.
No. Not just no but hell no.
I'm afraid the incompetents leading our country might just blunder our way into this war, and perhaps then into a nuclear war with Russia.
maybe (just Maybe), there is Another Conclusion.. We don't want US to be slowly killed too!
(or, instantly killed, in a flash brighter than a thousand suns)
Just Saying
Just Saying, Maybe YOU shouldn't have given up your nukes!
I smell a psy-ops!
I don't actually know what a psy-ops is, I just wanted to use that jazzy macho in-the-know word.
The clip didn't play for me. Where is the trusty Althouse transcript?
Translation: we're to blame?
When, when will the conscience of people be stirred?
If not that, when will the realization to the danger of their own lives and liberties be awakened?
"Only one conclusion"
Wow turns out this guy is just another pudknocker.
Excuse me while I "Matthew Stafford" this clown.
And the question needs to be asked- are we doing the Ukraine any favors by helping them prolong this conflict? My heart cheers for their successes in holding the Russians off, but my brain is telling me this might not be the most moral and ethical outcome.
Those who would so blithely sacrifice other nations, other peoples and populations, in the vain belief that it will keep them safe will sooner or later find the guns pointed at them and their way of life. Certainly, by doing so, they forfeit any claim to demand security from others of life and liberty for themselves.
You all are not going to get out of this that cheaply.
NATO has exacerbated the problem for decades through empty and broken promises to Ukraine and empty threats to Russia.
As the great statesman and philosopher Otter once said, "You fucked up! You trusted us!"
gilbar said...
Just Saying, Maybe YOU shouldn't have given up your nukes!
============
there were nuclear weapons in UKRAINE as there were in CUBA.
Castro Cuba did not control the launch codes
Did Ukraine? even if they had kept the weapons!?
maybe next slogan will be equity in !BOMBS!
Putin is a Soviet pile of garbage. Like all Soviet piles of garbage.
They want to destroy what they cannot control.
Like a chi com virus or a fake story manufactured by Hillary and spread by Maddow.
Censored apparently
John Adams once said(?) : “Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious People. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other”.
===============
Weirdly enough Putin's plaint is that current so called Western values = USA is no longer moral or religious?!! and he claims to have invaded to stop USA and NATO as they were enticing Ukraine with that corruption
If pawns on a chessboard could speak....
Excuse me while I "Matthew Stafford" this clown.
Stafford is the defending Super Bowl champion QB, so I'm not sure what you mean. (If the idea is to insult Zelenskyy, you shoulda made the Stafford comparison back when ol' Matt was QB for Detroit.)
Remember when we thought that only a horrible war could dislodge the USSR, but it didn't happen? Well, the war is happening now, 30 years late.
Investigate Russia's covert funding of US anti-fossil fuel groups
why isn't this guy at the negotiation table? Why isn't he calling for a cease fire? All the blood is on his head. The Ukraine cannot win. Its like the USA attacking Mexico. Mexico cannot win. Putin has already made his demands public. He wants border adjustments and neutralization. He's not trying to CONQUER THE WORLD!!!.
Quit getting people killed for nothing. Quit with the calls for WW III. Negotiate the end of the war!
Its always the same old crap. Even when its clear they can't win the leaders ALWAYS keep on fighting because they aren't the ones suffering. Jeff davis kept on fighting. ToJo and Hitler kept on fighting.
Its amazing what morons people are. We even have Russian Cats being banned from Cat shows. I'm wouldn't be surprised if some idiots have stopped putting Russian Dressng on their salad.
Its too bad all the American hatred directed at Putin couldn't be directed at the people here in the USA and Canada who are oppressing us. Putin never froze my bank account like Trudeau. And Putin didn't gun down Ashli Babbitt and pat her killer on the back. As Ali said, no VC ever called me xxx.
I'd like to nuke all the Soviet Putins, the Nazis who run Iran, the billionaire Castro family and a few Latin American leftist dictators into orbit around a distant galaxy.
Dangle some cash and take Hillary, Nancy and Hunter.
“When, when will the conscience of people be stirred?“
Okay, my conscience is stirred. Now what? Do we start World War III? You ready to go fight it over in Europe or are you too old so you’re ready to send your children or, better, other people’s children? You want to rely on our super competent leaders to manage World War III or most likely to withdraw from it while claiming victory? Biden enabled Putin by stopping energy production here and enriching him enough that he had the means to start this cockamamie invasion. It’s Biden’s world. We just get to live in it. And the way things are going, maybe not for long.
Did Ann finally cross the line with Google/Blogger? Whatever she linked to for this article has disappeared with the note “This post was removed”. That doesn’t look like Ann’s work, which is why I suspect darker forces at work.
Like Bruce, I would like to know what happened with that video. I usually copy the URL and play them in separate windows so I can see the source, but the one time I don't, the video is taken down.
We can't send our boys over there to do what Ukrainian boys need to do. We can send equipment and intelligence.
"I don't actually know what a psy-ops is, I just wanted to use that jazzy macho in-the-know word."
They never happen during war time, no need to worry your little head about it.
"Did Ann finally cross the line with Google/Blogger? Whatever she linked to for this article has disappeared with the note “This post was removed”. That doesn’t look like Ann’s work, which is why I suspect darker forces at work."
It has nothing to do with Google or Blogger. It's something Reddit did. SubReddits have all sorts of policies and they take things down all the time.
Suggestions:
Ship Polish Migs to Ukraine
Greatly increase covert operation support
Warp speed pumping our oil and refining
Minimize Iranian oil
Russian tanks and supply vehicles will be slowed
Does the Biden administration and NATO have the "balls"?
from John
DanTheMan said...
Zelensky wants the US and/or NATO to start World War III with Russia over The Ukraine.
No. Not just no but hell no.
I'm afraid the incompetents leading our country might just blunder our way into this war, and perhaps then into a nuclear war with Russia.
You say blunder.
I say they are trying to get us into this war on purpose.
The Biden Regime is illegitimate and everyone knows it. Super Majorities believe this war never would have happened if Trump was president.
They are going to be removed from power one way or another and the investigations into their corruption will be epic.
They are going to opt for nuclear war with Russia before they accept electoral defeat.
See my update to the post. You can still go to the video.
Rest assured, it's not about me, and it's not about Google.
Why should I care about Ukraine? One of the top 10 corrupt countries in the world.
Ditto Russia.
It would be nice if they just went back in their cages so we can ignore them. But in the meantime I'm rooting for injuries. I hope they both lose.
The only good thing to come out of this may be to show how a "well regulated militia" may be able to inflict enough hurt on a national army to make them think twice about starting something.
Schumer(?) said something to the effect of an insurgent movement could not take on the usg because "we have nukes and f16s"
Yeah? So what?
John LGBTQBNY Henry
Howard said...
We can't send our boys over there to do what Ukrainian boys need to do. We can send equipment and intelligence.
We could start producing our own energy again and stop funding this war.
But you wont let us.
This war is only happening because Putin has the money we send him importing his oil. This war is only happening because of Joe Biden and the people that support him.
Joe Biden Spits on US Allies to Secure a Deal That Makes No Sense
While the Biden administration has done its best to hide the ongoing negotiations, you’ve probably been made aware by now that a new JCPOA nuclear deal with Iran is in the works.
Guess who’s at the forefront of helping secure that deal? That would be none other than Vladimir Putin, who the United States is ostensibly at economic war with over Russia’s invasion of Ukraine. About now, you are probably asking how that makes any sense at all. But stick around, because I promise you that it gets even worse.
Recently, I wrote two articles noting the seeming subservience of the Biden administration to Russia (see here and here), even as Biden himself has trotted out the tough-guy talk for a gullible public. Yet, behind the scenes, it appears that a deal with Iran has taken priority, even as Putin continues to bomb cities in Ukraine.
But hang on, I told you things would get worse. According to Kenneth Vogul, the Biden administration is now looking to normalize relations with the communist Maduro regime in Venezuela. How does that connect with the Iran deal? We’ll get to that in a moment.
Ostensibly, this action is being taken to help separate Venezuela from Russia. But anyone who is able to critically think and possesses a modicum of knowledge regarding international relations will quickly realize how dumb that contention is. Venezuela and Russia are allies, to the point where the latter held nuclear exercises there back in 2018. Russia has also been a supplier of commodities and materials to Venezuela as the South American nation has suffered under Western sanctions.
Now, does anyone think a quick visit from the Biden administration is going to “drive a wedge” between Venezuela and Russia given the relationship that exists between the two nations? In short, the Times’ spin on the matter, no doubt meant to protect the White House, doesn’t add up.
Here is the full quote, which I think substantially changes the meaning:"We are humans, and it’s your humanitarian duty to protect us, protect civilians, and you can do it. If you don’t do it, if you at least don’t give us airplanes so that we could defend ourselves, that the only conclusion remains - you also want us to be very slowly killed."
rocket scientists and on THIS site, keep going on and on (and on and on), about how;
"the Ukrainians couldn't have used their nuclear weapons, because they didn't have the launch codes"
Please humor me, by giving some reference to HOW you think that? It goes Way over my head
here's some references..
Ukraine would have had to spend 12 to 18 months to establish full operational control over the nuclear arsenal left by the Russians
Budjeryn, Mariana (September 1, 2016). "Was Ukraine's Nuclear Disarmament a Blunder?". World Affairs.
https://news.sky.com/story/russian-invasion-wouldnt-have-happened-if-ukraine-still-had-nuclear-weapons-ukrainian-political-adviser-says-12556811
In Kyiv, the government in 1993 went so far as to consider seizing operational control of its nuclear missiles and bombers
Now I'm SURE that you All think that you are WAY smarter than me (or anyone else in the world)
But help me out, will you? cite a reference (or briefly explain). I KNOW you can do it;
you are ALL SUPER SMART
This war is Putin's vanity project. Perhaps he was to some extent enabled by Biden's ineptitude, but it's Putin's war....I don't think we should be taking on Russia over the Ukraine, but I don't blame Zelensky for trying to get us involved....I suppose a woman can act in such a way as to minimize the physical damage from a rape, but some women cry for help or try to scratch out the rapist's eyes. They're not dumb blondes....Ukraine is fated to lose, but there is no way Russia comes out of this a winner. Putin will conquer what he considers a Russian province in such a way as to increase among the people of that "province" their sense of a separate identity and fate.
The Slavic Spring is the last war in the Obama Spring series, which will end as others in that series when the government in Kiev is replaced with a native government, democratically elected, and after 32 trimesters, the provinces in question will either secede (not for slavery, not for diversity, or fair weather causes) or be reconciled and compensated for the violence they have endured under mismanagement of Kiev and empathetic axis.
JCPOA nuclear deal with Iran is in the works.
Guess who’s at the forefront of helping secure that deal? That would be none other than Vladimir Putin, who the United States is ostensibly at economic war with over Russia’s invasion of Ukraine.
The JCPOA and other deals have an economic motive and basis, and both America and Russia are parties to its progress.
That said, then there is China, sanctions on Xi and the communist party, for diversity [dogma], practical and actual slavery, Green environmental arbitrage, invasion and annexation of sovereign territory, violent disputes with neighboring [democratic] nations, and one-child/selective-child (i.e. State and her Choice) are next, never.
That's the same conclusion reached by the seceding (not for slavery, not for diversity, for a democracy that dies in darkness) provinces, where after 32 trimesters following the violent Western-backed coup in Kiev, the violence is progressive, and the regime(s) have made no effort to reconcile and offer remediation. Then sit down with neighboring nations (a la Trump, Mexico et al) to reconcile and reach mutually equitable solutions. 32 trimesters to mitigate progress and its aftermath.
"we can send Intelligence"
hahahahaaa
LOL! Like Ray Epps? or.. the FBI dudes who entrapped and manufactured the fake Whitmer kid-napping trap? Or maybe the FBI who were unable to stop the Parkland shooting or the FBI who were supposedly watching the creep who killed 10 people dead inside a Boulder grocery store? That dude killed the ten people, hated Trump, needed a GF, lived with a family who was brought here during the Obama years and supposedly *wink* the FBI, we are told by the obedient local press(D) were *watching him.* Lotta good that did.
Intelligence.
Intelligence!
Or maybe the FBI would willingly gave Sussman access and credibility to do his dirty work for Clinton.
At this point, if you're not reading VoxDay dot Net, you may as well be watching CNN for the pretty pictures. There's been a bit of a theme lately, expanding on the idea that Jesus wants a world full of princes. By contrast, Satan discards his servants even when they succeed. He discards them BECAUSE of that success, really. It makes sense on ironic, theological, and philosophical levels, not to mention cold practicality. Using that supernatural standard, Zelensky is coming to the terrifying realization that he's implacably antagonized Russia for little more than a pat on the head from NATO and obviously overdone declarations that he's the Sexiest Thing Since Churchill.
It's certainly possible that Russia could have serious problems with occupation, but the population there is suffering tremendously under sanctions so they'll have no trouble picturing Ukrainian "resisters" as Nazis. You can ask the Germans themselves about how much trouble Russians have occupying urban territory with substantial Nazi presence, or how they can torment conquered populations short of simply murdering them all. If you are wise, you will NOT ask.
Hari said...
Here is the full quote, which I think substantially changes the meaning:"We are humans, and it’s your humanitarian duty to protect us, protect civilians, and you can do it. If you don’t do it, if you at least don’t give us airplanes so that we could defend ourselves, that the only conclusion remains - you also want us to be very slowly killed."
**********************
How many fucking times do we have to put up with the cheap rhetorical snot that if we don't want to do something, or disagree about something, the "you want" phrase creeps in?
"You want children to die" if you don't want them to be vaccinated.
"You want grandpa to die" if you think kids shouldn't be masked.
Now it's "you want us to be very slowly killed". Meaning that WE set up the Ukraine situation, and WE must risk OUR deaths by the millions to help end it.
Basta!
Blogger rcocean said...
why isn't this guy at the negotiation table? Why isn't he calling for a cease fire? All the blood is on his head. The Ukraine cannot win. Its like the USA attacking Mexico. Mexico cannot win. Putin has already made his demands public. He wants border adjustments and neutralization. He's not trying to CONQUER THE WORLD!!!.
Quit getting people killed for nothing. Quit with the calls for WW III. Negotiate the end of the war!
Its always the same old crap. Even when its clear they can't win the leaders ALWAYS keep on fighting because they aren't the ones suffering. Jeff davis kept on fighting. ToJo and Hitler kept on fighting.
3/6/22, 9:58 AM
Using your logic Vietnam could have never won. Those goat-herding-poppy-growing-7th-century bearded men in dirty night shirts in Afghanistan couldn't win.
Never discount home field advantage or the difficulty of maintaining long supply lines. US had to ship men and war materials 10,000 miles to fight in Vietnam. Russia has proved that's just about an impossible feat but we did it. And we still lost because the Vietnamese were fighting to protect their own homes and families - much like the Ukrainians are now.
The US is trying to drag Poland into the war very publicly, as it turns to Iran and Venezuela to make them great again with oil exports to the US.
Has the US, NATO, EU, or UN done anything to assist Poland with the now 1 million refugees? Not from what I've seen
BUT- The democrats want something like $50B for Ukraine. Oddly, the day after they announced it, Bill Clinton decided this was a good time to activate the Clinton Global Initiative. To, you know, help with those Ukraine relief funds.
Ukraine never should have given up their nukes. They did it because the USA and UK promised to protect them.
Yancey: "A long protracted struggle is the worse outcome for the Ukrainians, but there are worse outcomes for the world as a whole"
It is worst for the Ukrainians, and therefore they should stop asap. It is also close to worst for the world as a whole, since shutting off Russia is going to be extremely painful for a lot of people, without making any difference to the eventual outcome.
"Meaning that WE set up the Ukraine situation"
It ia absurdly naive for Zelensky to count on decisive material assistance, and he has no claim on us, except that we did sorta contribute to the mess in and after 2014. We gave the Ukrainians hope we could not seriously sustain and that seriously pissed off Putin.
PETER HITCHENS: One glorious day in Sevastopol 12 years ago, I saw what was coming. That's why I won't join this carnival of hypocrisy
Peter Hitchens' most recent Mail on Sunday column is full of his usual levelheadedness and common sense.
Zelenski is basically saying cancellation culture is not going to keep them safe from Russian bombardment.
Who knew?
Really pathetic how all the usual suspects on here are intent on surrendering Ukraine on behalf of the Ukrainians. For example, can someone explain to me what rcocean would be saying differently if he were a Putin sympathizer or a paid Putin Troll? Zelensky isn't asking for US troops or for us to fight for him, he's asking for arms and equipment so he can fight for himself, plus a NATO enforced no fly zone. He's never even been promised that. He's going to get some equipment from us, some of the rest of it from Europe, but not a no fly zone. Europe is doing most of the heavy lifting here, not the US. Fools who are calling for Zelensky to surrender to naked Russian aggression care nothing about the 3.9 million Ukrainians who Russia starved to death in 1938-39, the last time Russia disarmed the Ukrainians. That's also why Zelensky will never surrender. The only thing that will precipitate WWIII is a convincing Putin of US weakness, like cutting off all support for Ukraine while they are apparently either winning or fighting Russia to a draw in the North. If that's too much for rcocean he should crawl back under the bed and cover his ears while Ukraine gets on with business. Russia is a paper tiger that would be rolled up like a rug in a conflict with the US, and he knows it, so he's never going to let things get close to that point unless he's already decided to commit nuclear suicide. After all, he's currently going into the 11th day of what was supposed to be a 48 to 72 hour campaign and has had his main body stymied on a highway for the last eight days. If he's stupid enough to draw the US and NATO into a hotwar in which he's already been bloodied there's nothing at all anyone outside Russia can do about it.
"It ia absurdly naive for Zelensky to count on decisive material assistance, and he has no claim on us, except that we did sorta contribute to the mess in and after 2014. We gave the Ukrainians hope we could not seriously sustain and that seriously pissed off Putin."
***********
I agree with the "sorta". But to say we deliberately made it happen, or it happened BECAUSE of us, is like saying FDR made Japan attack Pearl Harbor.
Russia, like Japan was, is behaving like a brutal imperialist power when we were trying to rein them in. Putin set this off when he invaded Crimea.
Browndog 12:17
Standard selfish jerks to the trough.
jaydub said...
After all, he's currently going into the 11th day of what was supposed to be a 48 to 72 hour campaign and has had his main body stymied on a highway for the last eight days. If he's stupid enough to draw the US and NATO into a hotwar in which he's already been bloodied there's nothing at all anyone outside Russia can do about it.
3/6/22, 12:37 PM
This is a pretty intense take about an army that has multiple Ukrainian cities under siege with no real hope of reinforcement, along with increasing Russian control over Ukraine's coastal territory, but you do you. Your takes on Russia's military weakness are likely to age like milk over the coming month.
“ It has nothing to do with Google or Blogger. It's something Reddit did. SubReddits have all sorts of policies and they take things down all the time.”
Good to know. You seem to be much more careful than I would be in your shoes, which is a good thing.
Communism is over. Now it's crony communism.
I really have mixed feeling on this war. It seems plain that NATO or the US will not protect Ukraine. Is it moral for the US and NATO to urge the Ukrainian's to fight a battle they will almost surely loose?
I get many Ukrainian's want to fight and will fight no matter what? Would it be better just to accept the Russia rule and live with it without all the death, if that is the end outcome anyway?
Looks like the US policy is to support a long insurgency just to pin Russian down. Seems immoral somehow.
Jaydub said..
Zelensky isn't asking for US troops or for us to fight for him, he's asking for arms and equipment so he can fight for himself, plus a NATO enforced no fly zone.
(you point out, that he's Not going to get this; but Still..)
"isn't asking for US troops or for us to fight for him"
BUT!
"asking for a NATO enforced no fly zone".. Which Would MEAN: US troops fighting for him
Call me a true blue USAF chauvinist; But the boys in blue ARE US troops.
We're Not enforcing a no fly zone with drones
Lastly, you said.. Russia is a paper tiger
To Quote Joe Stalin; "A paper tiger Yes, but with Atomic Teeth "
Personally, while i joke all the time about how "Nothing stops Global Warming like a Nuclear Winter"
That Doesn't Mean that i want to see it
Word has it that Democrat strategists are already salivating at the prospect of adding the millions of Americans killed in a nuclear holocaust with Russia to their voting rolls.
Why should I care about Ukraine? One of the top 10 corrupt countries in the world.
I dare say that the United States is also one of the top 10 corrupt countries in the world.
Should we not care about the U.S. then?
Let's not pretend that not helping Ukraine has anything to do with ethics.
It seems like LOTS of people (here, there, and everywhere) are saying...
a) Putin has painted himself into a corner...
b) Putin will NOT survive this war...
c) Putin is CRAZY!
d) Don't worry, Russia would Never, Ever, EVER, even Think about going Nuclear
Personally, I'm seeing some problems with that line of thought... It's TOO convincing
Jay Dub,
Let me start by saying what a great moniker. Ken is one of my favorite authors. But to your point
We are sorta responsible for Ukraine and should continue to supply them as long as they are willing to fight. However, Russia has made its willingness to use tactical nukes, and Putin may adhere to an escalate to de-escalate approach. We can't afford to believe he would never use nukes just because to do so would be insane. If things get to the point where he uses a nuke on a Polish airbase, for example, in order to stop Poland/USA from giving the Ukrainians more jet fighters, then the prospect of the use of strategic nukes becomes a real possibility.
I'd be willing to go balls to the wall for Poland (and fortunately I think they have more sense than our current government.). But the Ukrainians live in the most dangerous neighborhood possible and they have dragged their feet on the Minsk protocols. So while all the responsibility for this war rests on Putin, actions by both the US and Ukraine probably could have avoided it.
How do you folks see this all playing out? What kind of "off ramp" do you envision that would result in the world being at peace after this, that the U.S. would be secure in its national security? That we can go back to our normal lives? How do you see that, once Ukraine is crushed, Russia (and China and Iran and North Korea and ISIS) will start being a satisfied and peaceful nation?
Mark said...
I dare say that the United States is also one of the top 10 corrupt countries in the world.
****************
I dare say you would be dead wrong, at least according to this:
https://www.transparency.org/en/cpi/2021
Look how far down Ukraine is. (as much more corrupt.)
Not even close.
Europe is doing most of the heavy lifting here, not the US
The U.S. government, joined by the people here, are doing a LOT.
They are telling Russia that it has nothing to fear from the U.S. They are telling Russia, go ahead, we won't stop you. In other words, they are giving encouragement to Russia (and China and Iran and North Korea); they are enablers and collaborators.
Mark said...
How do you folks see this all playing out? What kind of "off ramp" do you envision that would result in the world being at peace after this, that the U.S. would be secure in its national security? That we can go back to our normal lives? How do you see that, once Ukraine is crushed, Russia (and China and Iran and North Korea and ISIS) will start being a satisfied and peaceful nation?
*************
I don't know what "back to normal" means, since we've been dealing with threats from all those adversaries for a long time.
At the very least Russia will have sufficiently exhausted its military hardware and infrastructure that it will be unable to do much to any other countries---aside from little ones like Estonia, where the NATO tripwire might hold Putin back.
But the other guys? Aside from China, they are all small potatoes. If we regain energy independence we will care a lot less about ISIS, even assuming it can regroup.
jaydub,
"Zelensky isn't asking for US troops or for us to fight for him"
"plus a NATO enforced no fly zone."
Those are mutually exclusive. A no-fly zone may be an appropriate step, but please don't pretend that doesn't involve US troops in combat with the Russians.
Mark said...
Europe is doing most of the heavy lifting here, not the US
The U.S. government, joined by the people here, are doing a LOT.
They are telling Russia that it has nothing to fear from the U.S. They are telling Russia, go ahead, we won't stop you. In other words, they are giving encouragement to Russia (and China and Iran and North Korea); they are enablers and collaborators.
*******************
It's rhetorical snot.
Yeah. Next thing, you'll be telling us that the US "wants the Ukrainians to die slowly".
After all, Russia has nothing to fear from all the sanctions that have driven its economy into the shitter. Nothing to fear from that!
Yes, we can shut off oil imports, and the like, but in the world of Realpolitik we don't have to go to war with Russia over an attack on what is and was essentially its vassal state, albeit a restless one.
What is the pathway to where Russia is no longer a threat to the world? That it will no longer put its nuclear forces on high alert and threaten to use nuclear weapons if it is sanctioned or does not get what it wants?
What if it decides to test the waters and sets off a nuke somewhere in Ukraine?
US energy purchases from Russia are insignificant. It is EU energy purchases from Russia that constitute the big wild card here.
I just feel the "fog of war" slowly rolling in. What did Zelensky say and what did it mean? Is it a psy-op? and by who? Is the 60 km convoy bogged down or resupplying? Is seizing the city centers working or is Russia holding the ground its soldiers are standing on - or the mud they are sinking in? Putin: Mad dog or Russian nationalist?
I believe that it is harder for Putin to attack the Ukraine than other places such as Germany or Poland. He has been presenting himself as the defender of Russian Christianity - it's not great look to send in Moslems from Chechen to destroy the mother churches of Russian Eastern Orthodox Christianity - which are in the Ukraine - some of which were rebuilt after the Soviet destruction - some were rebuilt under Putin's government. Sure, he's hypocrite and could easily do it but he couldn't so easily get Russian conscript soldiers to really fight to do it. And it would end a propaganda campaign he's had going just as the attack on Hungary's reformist government in 1956 woke up a lot of people. I've had people telling me for years that Putin was a supporter of Christianity - haw, haw. Christianity v. liberalism - I never accepted that dichotomy; if I did I wouldn't be here. But Putin attacking the Ukraine is the unmasking of that maskirovka for its believers just like the CDC issuing unmasking guidelines in time for SOTU. Putin will be particularly exposed if he gets held up by Ukrainian mud and militias and then bombs the "[Ukranian] center of Russian history" back to the Soviet age.
doctrev, the Ukrainians know they are not going to be reinforced, but they also know that they are not fighting the big, bad super villain that folks on this thread seem to think the Russians to be. Regardless, the Ukrainians will have no choice but to fight to the death - it's their homes and country that they will lose, their children who will die and their women who will be raped or killed in the process - and that tends to bring their task into sharper focus than is the case for those who have the luxury of recommending more benign courses of action while safely ensconced behind a keyboard and with their own families just down the hall. Moreover, you cannot discount the Holodomor's influence on the Ukrainian population unless, like them, your country lost one tenth of its population to forced starvation by the Russians once before. When you can muster a guerrilla army of 20 million or so men to conduct asymmetric warfare on a forward deployed force of a few hundred thousand you don't need reinforcements, you need arms and ammunition. Further, unless Poland, Slovakia, Hungary, Romania and Moldova decide to join Ukraine in a suicide pact, there will be lots of avenues for arms to get into the country. They can bleed Putin like a slaughtered pig and as they choose. Besides, Putin doesn't have the luxury of an extended, high casualty, dubiously justified war of attrition in someone else's front yard. Russians may be stupid, but they aren't going to sit back and watch a few tens of thousands of their sons to come home in body bags over Putin's dreams of reconstituting Russia as a superpower. You people are delusional if you think the Ukrainians are going to just bend over and kiss their ass goodbye rather than putting up an all out fight for their lives. Besides, if we are not supporting them in their fight, we are unlikely to get a vote on what they do.
subtitles are accurate in case anyone still wondering
Reddit sucks. If your viewpoint doesn't reflect the prevailing tribal values, you get muzzled so you can never speak in that forum again. It's a festival of conformism.
For those of you who can't read, I never said they should get a no fly zone, only equipment and arms. Specifically, I said "He's going to get some equipment from us, some of the rest of it from Europe, but not a no fly zone."
Over al Alex Berensen's blog, this comment:
"What stupefies me is that many of the same people who wear five masks to bed or alone, driving a car, and run shrieking in terror when encountering the filthy unvaxed, now bray for a no fly zone in the Ukraine. These people are scared to death of a disease which has an insanely low mortality, but are seemingly unafraid of nuclear Armageddon. It blows my mind."
For those who think the Ukrainians should just stop fighting because it's so bad for the 'world'.
“Nations that went down fighting rose again, but those who surrendered tamely were finished.”
That Churchill, such a warmonger. He wanted is all killed (/s).
As for "the violent Western-backed coup in Kiev" and the rest of the comment, peddled by (one who it pains me a bit to call) a moron.
"However, Members of Parliament voted on 22 February to remove the president and set an election for 25 May to select his replacement, a move described by Russia and US academic John Mearsheimer as a coup".
Interesting reading those wiki articles. There was of course violence but that seems to be have been in the main police violence. And reading the wiki articles on the so-called 'coup' the Ukrainians seem to have been grown up and intelligent enough to have been able to do it without being pushed or backed into it. But funny how this being a 'coup', and a violent one to boot, is brought as 100% fact and not 'nuanced' at all.
Mark said...
What is the pathway to where Russia is no longer a threat to the world? That it will no longer put its nuclear forces on high alert and threaten to use nuclear weapons if it is sanctioned or does not get what it wants?
What if it decides to test the waters and sets off a nuke somewhere in Ukraine?
**********
The strategies of "Deterrence" and "Mutually Assured Destruction" are not based on certainty.
The world would be in a much more precarious condition if Putin were to set off a nuke in Poland, a NATO member. It would mean that those strategies have failed.
What would happen next, God only knows.
"I say they are trying to get us into this war on purpose."
Given how many serious and respected voices carefully explain, over decades, that our course of action was provocative to Russia and would lead to war, one can only assume that they knew what they are doing, and now they are waging an economic war against Russia proper, and probably are having their carpet bags made up right this minute, for the inevitable "victory."
Ukrainian casualties are regrettable, but they are expendable to these people.
effinayright said...
Over al Alex Berensen's blog, this comment:
"What stupefies me is that many of the same people who wear five masks to bed or alone, driving a car, and run shrieking in terror when encountering the filthy unvaxed, now bray for a no fly zone in the Ukraine. These people are scared to death of a disease which has an insanely low mortality, but are seemingly unafraid of nuclear Armageddon. It blows my mind."
Fighter and bomber crews wear oxygen masks, so a no fly zone is perfectly safe....
Readering said...
US energy purchases from Russia are insignificant. It is EU energy purchases from Russia that constitute the big wild card here.
The US imports 21% of our imports of oil from Russia.
Democrats are forcing us to fund this war.
You are forcing us to fund this war.
You.
jaydub said...
Russians may be stupid
3/6/22, 2:04 PM
tim in vermont said...
Ukrainian casualties are regrettable, but they are expendable to these people.
3/6/22, 2:27 PM
Tim is right, obviously, but what I love most about jaydub's direct-to-vein mainlining of pure neoconnery is the idea that Ukrainians are fanatically willing to lay down their lives for every inch of their soil. If this was remotely true, the Russians never would have been able to take Kherson, much less move as quickly as they have through Ukraine. It turns out you need more than morale and historical grudges to counterattack, much less win wars. But given that Ukraine is "fully mobilizing" men 18 to 60 in their army which is definitely NOT made of conscripts, trusting in the invincible morale of Ukraine might be a little bit premature. Especially after Russia finishes enveloping the bulk of the Ukrainian army near Donbas.
Remember, Biden still refuses to talk to Putin.
Tells me the US is not interested in de-escalation.
I think the proper conclusion is that we don’t care whether the Ukrainians succeed or die (slowly or otherwise). I don’t think that this is the moral position, but it is the realistic one.
So mark,
If I shouldn't not care about Ukraine because they are corrupt can you give me any good reasons to give half a shit about them?
Fuck Ukraine. Fuck Russia. Let th beat the shit out of each other.
Europe is not, never has been and never should be our problem. Including ww parts 1&2
Let the europeans solve their own problems. Most of our ancestors moved here to get away from this bullshit.
Modern westerners are unable to understand the power of a people fortified by a sense of community and ideology. Afghanistan defeated a much larger Soviet Union with much less people than Ukraine. And then they overwhelmed the Afghan government in days recently. Tanks and planes don't win wars, people do. Have we learned nothing from 1958 Cuba, 1963 Kenya, 1990's Yugoslavia. A united cohesive motivated people win. The question is whether a people who have had their culture, religion, and historical identity thoroughly manipulated in recent years can reclaim it.
Browndog said...
Remember, Biden still refuses to talk to Putin.
Tells me the US is not interested in de-escalation.
The democrats need this war to distract from the results of the illegitimate and failing regime.
That is why Biden is driving the price of Oil up and forcing us to give Russia the money to pay for this war.
Achilles said...
The democrats need this war to distract from the results of the illegitimate and failing regime.
That is why Biden is driving the price of Oil up and forcing us to give Russia the money to pay for this war.
3/6/22, 3:35 PM
For a typical regime, that would be ideal. But don't be fooled: gasoline prices are skyrocketing all over the West. In the EU, basic natural gas is becoming so expensive that people are likely to have mass protests, certainly more than Russians would over the Mercedes supply being curtailed. There is a non-zero risk of nuclear escalation, and moron Joe Biden assuring us otherwise practically confirms the fact.
I don't know if the Biden regime is smart enough to think they could control this war, and I'm not even sure this is going according to cabal plans.
While I am not in favor of Ukrainians being killed slowly, I'm not in favor of Americans being killed rapidly, either.
doctrev said...
I don't know if the Biden regime is smart enough to think they could control this war, and I'm not even sure this is going according to cabal plans.
It is clear they think they were smart enough to manage this.
It is clear they are not smart enough to manage this.
I am starting to think they have given up and are trying to bring the entire system down so they can run and hide in the aftermath.
Achilles said...
I am starting to think they have given up and are trying to bring the entire system down so they can run and hide in the aftermath.
3/6/22, 3:52 PM
As theory goes, it's plausible. The problem, of course, is that starting a nuclear holocaust that consumes your havens is typically counter-intuitive. That applies just as much to the much more competent cabal controlling Biden as the actual mediocre regime: Putin won't shrink at nuking billionaires hiding in NZ if it comes to that.
I am not looking forward to the next flash of lightening near me. The fact that we are led by a corrupt dotard who is holed up in Delaware right now because he is not up to the job, and his SoS has green lighted, per reports I hope are not true, green lighted flying jet fighters out of NATO bases into the theatre of the war, and presumably providing command and control via western AWACs, since the Ukrainian radar is long since gone, says that the risk of a nuclear exchange is way out of the negligible range.
Putin will see the bases launching these aircraft as targets and how will we know if any missiles inbound to NATO airspace are not nuclear tipped? We won't.
Masterful diplomacy by Biden... masterful.
>>I don't know if the Biden regime is smart enough to think they could control this war
"Joe Biden has been wrong on nearly every major foreign policy and national security issue over the past four decades.”
- Robert Gates, Obama's secretary of defense
UPDATE: My post consisted of an embedded Reddit post that is now removed. It showed Zelensky, speaking in Ukrainian, and had subtitles that may or may not have been accurate.
Althouse: Just saw the clip on Sky News with that translation, so it is apparently correct.
Biden's handlers understand sending Dementia Potemkin Joe...to talk with Putin, would be useless/embarrassing/ or worse. *imagines nuke going off*
I don't know if the Biden regime is smart enough to think they could control this war, and I'm not even sure this is going according to cabal plans.
It's not. These are midwits who know only how to regurgitate pop culture and think-tank talking points. They are flailing.
Doctrev, If I respected your opinions in the slightest I would be really insulted WRT the neocon slander; however, being one of those who actually had to fight two of the neocon wars: Vietnam and the Gulf War (three combat tours, Legion of Merit, Bronze Star times three, Purple Heart) I would just like to take the opportunity to invite you to ESAD.
I do feel obligated to correct some of your misinformation:
Your Ruskie friends are mostly stuck along the Northeastern border with Belarus, in the Russian sympathizer breakaway areas of the Donbass to the East (which were ceded to them prior to the invasion) and just north of the border with Crimea and along the Black Sea coast. Nothing to the West. Their now 65 KM long, 3 vehicle wide main convoy is stuck on a road to the North of Kyiv about 40 KM from the Russian border and has been for 8 days due to fuel and food shortages. They can't get off the road because the Ukrainians have flooded the fields on the sides of the roads and blown bridges ahead of the column and behind it, plus their damaged vehicles are also blocking movement. Nothing says superpower like putting all your main battle force eggs in one basket and running out of fuel and getting bogged down in Indian country on a SINGLE road with no off ramps, numerous blown bridges and no organic portable bridges. BTW, Kherson is less than 100 miles from the Crimea border. Kharkiv is about 25 miles from Russia. They haven't taken a major town more than 100 miles into to Ukraine. That's because they can't because their logistics suck.
Those things said, keep up the cheering for the Ruskies. It's always valuable when the enemy self identifies.
Modern westerners are unable to understand the power of a people fortified by a sense of community and ideology. Afghanistan defeated a much larger Soviet Union with much less people than Ukraine. And then they overwhelmed the Afghan government in days recently.
The Afghans didn't do shit. They were cannon fodder supported by the West, and more recently by the Pakistanis and a worldwide network of groups. Afghanistan fell because the Afghan people by and large don't have a sense of community and ideology, but instead are divided by tribal loyalties and corruption.
"Yes, for the human kind this would be a global catastrophe. for the world it would be a global catastrophe..."
If you don't know who said it or why, I can't help you. But the warning is much more blunt and real than anything said by the Austrian fellow. For me, a bright thought about thermonuclear holocaust is the knowledge that the Berlinskis and Frums who imagined a world without Russia will be silenced forever, "blown away by a purifying wind."
I could easily see Joe Biden threatening to beat Putin up in a frothing rage.
I do feel obligated to correct some of your misinformation:
Your Ruskie friends are mostly stuck along the Northeastern border with Belarus, in the Russian sympathizer breakaway areas of the Donbass to the East (which were ceded to them prior to the invasion) and just north of the border with Crimea and along the Black Sea coast. Nothing to the West.
3/6/22, 4:22 PM
REALLY. Russians haven't gotten to the far end of enemy territory where they don't have land borders in the first two weeks of the conflict? Thanks for the update, George Patton. And... do you realize how much area you'd have to flood to hold back a mechanized convoy miles long? Do you realize that if the flooding could really cut off 1/5 of the entire invasion force, it would look more like a lake surrounding Kiev at minimum, assuming any pictures of flooding exist at all? And the notion of surrounding 40 miles of road in any meaningful way with water is beyond Ukraining engineering capabilities, to put it mildly.
I'm sorry, you're just far too much of a gullible dumbass to refute in detail. Oh, you're an NPC spouting tired hasbara that discredits itself, but it's just much more fun to watch the advance crush your theories.
Dozens of sorties flying south out of Belarus in the last 4 hours, including 4 AWACS.
Idiot Blinken telling the world NATO is sending jets to Ukraine just got a lot of people killed.
According to the Energy Information Administration, the US consumed an average of about 18 million barrels per day in 2020 ...
In 2021, the US imported an average of 209,000 barrels per day (bpd) of crude oil and 500,000 bpd of other petroleum products from Russia, according to the American Fuel and Petrochemical Manufacturers (AFPM) trade association.
so ~~~ 4% ~~~~ 30+ Billion $$$$
I would have sworn I left a comment here, or on the other Putin thread, about this, but apparently I'm thinking of somewhere else.
Now I'll go back and read the long comments that I only skimped through looking for my own.
It's educational.
Idiot Blinken telling the world NATO is sending jets to Ukraine just got a lot of people killed.
The Slavic Spring is perhaps, hopefully the last poorly conceived performance in the Obama, Biden, Clinton, McCain, Biden Spring series, with the same predictable consequences and collateral damage. That said, 32 trimesters and the regime in Kiev has failed to reconcile and provide remedy to the Ukrainian people, thus providing moral justification for an intervention.
Blogger Browndog said...
Dozens of sorties flying south out of Belarus in the last 4 hours, including 4 AWACS.
Idiot Blinken telling the world NATO is sending jets to Ukraine just got a lot of people killed.
That's not good
Can Of Cheese for Hunter said...
. . . fake story manufactured by Hillary and spread by Maddow.
Time to join the real world, CCH.
"Fake" stories are fake only when Donald lies and says they are, Hillary hasn't been around for five years and Maddow is off the air.
And the DC District Judge proclaims that Trump can be charged with seditious conspiracy.
Narr said...
I would have sworn I left a comment here, or on the other Putin thread, about this, but apparently I'm thinking of somewhere else.
Now I'll go back and read the long comments that I only skimped through looking for my own.
It's educational.
*********
Hit ctrl + F and type in your name.
Saves time. It's cruel and unusual punishment to have to read Howard's drivel once, let alone twice.
Well now, China, India and Russia are working out their mutual needs. Doesn't bode well. I gotta laugh out of the Afghanistan commenting. History shows that Afghanistan is where armies go to die. Sun Tzu once said "don't start no shit, won't be no shit", or something to that effect. Once again, we'll see.
Never discount home field advantage or the difficulty of maintaining long supply lines. US had to ship men and war materials 10,000 miles to fight in Vietnam. Russia has proved that's just about an impossible feat but we did it. And we still lost because the Vietnamese were fighting to protect their own homes and families - much like the Ukrainians are now.
1) Russia is right next door to the Ukraine. It is literally in their own backyard.
2) 30% of the Ukraine are native Russian speakers.
3) Putin is NOT trying to conquer the Ukraine - he has made that clear in public statements
4) Everyone in Ukraine over the age of 35, lived at a time when Ukraine and Russia were part of the same Country. In before 1990's, Ukraine and Russians were part fo the same Country/Empire for hundreds of years.
5) Ukraine has no jungles or mountains. Its mostly plains and forests. In any case, the Russians are not trying to Conquer the Ukraine, they are trying to force the Ukrainian Leadership to come to the negotiating table and agree to certain limited border adjustments and neutralize Ukraine militarily.
IOW, its nothing like the Vietnam war. There is no VC. There is no "safe santuary". There is no "Ho chi mihn trail" there is no Haigong Harbor full of Russian ships delivering goods. And there is no fatatical communist NV leadership in total control of half the country determined to win no matter how long (or high the cost) to the Vietnamese people.
The Russian AF could;ve leveled Kiev. The Russian heavy artillery could've leveled Kharlov. But they haven't and they wont. Because Putin is NOT Hitler. He's not trying to conquer some alien country.
Browndog said...
Dozens of sorties flying south out of Belarus in the last 4 hours, including 4 AWACS.
Idiot Blinken telling the world NATO is sending jets to Ukraine just got a lot of people killed.
Marco Rubio was saying the same thing.
And Poland said that they aren't.
The Regime in DC is outdoing itself this time. We know there are Republicans that are just as into starting this war as democrats.
Washington DC is desperate to keep this war going.
These people think they can delay the inevitable.
Brent Crude up to $130. Pay up deplorables, your betters want a war!
It was a storyline that in earlier times would have seemed impossible. For four years, the actor and comedian Volodymyr Zelenskiy entertained TV audiences in Ukraine with his starring role in the sitcom Servant of the People. Zelenskiy played a teacher who, outraged by his country’s chronic corruption, successfully runs for president. In 2019, Zelenskiy made fiction real when he contested Ukraine’s actual presidential election and won.
========
I see parallel with AOC audition and success running for US Congress
did Congress pass law allowing this Ukraine: Poroshenko awards Orders of Ukraine to US Senators McCain and Graham
once branded [= decorated] cattle is not maverick
Brent Crude up to $130.
BRENT HITS $139.13/BBL, US CRUDE HITS $130.50/BBL
For Doctrev: A reasonable explanation of Russian logistics failures by the creators of the "World War Two" deep dive series currently available on Youtube. Also, the reason Ruskies haven't advanced much beyond the Ukraine border. Not that you don't already know everything, of course, but provided just in case.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b4wRdoWpw0w
I guess its time for that old saying ....
When they came for the Ukrainians, I said nothing because I wasn't a Ukrainian (I just blamed Biden)
jaydub said...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b4wRdoWpw0w
3/7/22, 3:57 AM
... what kind of pathetic NPC catamite are you? "Here, watch this Youtube video, it'll explain everything!" Just because I don't need opinions spoonfed to me from the algo doesn't mean I can't comprehend them. Yes, Russia has an advanced rail network- that makes reinforcing their armies with supplies from as far away as China easy as dreaming. They're not going to have trouble just because they have to be driven in for the last few kilometers. The current convoy outside Kiev is wildly inefficient and in no condition to immediately attack Kiev. This is for two reasons: first, because the Russians have no intention of immediately attacking Kiev, and secondly because the shape makes enemy attacks much harder. An artillery barrage, thermobaric bomb, or even nuclear missile could seriously wreck a traditional staging area. Now, the Russians ARE vulnerable to airstrikes in this formation. The fact the convoy still exists means that the scrappy Ukrainian air presence is considerably overblown.
I don't have to be a logistics genius fit for the Grand Armee to realize you're a drone whose thoughts can't stand up to basic logic. It's okay to despise the enemy: when you hate the Russians enough to see them as invariably corrupt and stupid peasants, like Napoleon and Hitler did, you're asking for total humiliation.
Doctrev, you're a fool. I don't argue with fools for long. Why do you have to resort to ad homin attacks when confronted with reasoned arguments? The analysts that produced that video are the same ones who produced the WWII and Cold War series that were widely acclaimed for their balance and insight. You should watch them. You might learn something. Nah. Probably not.
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