Althouse: "President Putin said today that Russia was ready to discuss Ukraine’s neutral status in talks to end the conflict there as he lashed out at the West for trying to 'cancel' his country."

March 16, 2022

"President Putin said today that Russia was ready to discuss Ukraine’s neutral status in talks to end the conflict there as he lashed out at the West for trying to 'cancel' his country."

"He claimed that Russia had no option but to invade Ukraine and accused Western countries of wishing to 'continue the bloodshed' by supplying weapons to the Kyiv government. But he said Russia would consider 'the neutral status of Ukraine, its demilitarisation, and its denazification' in negotiations to end the conflict."

The London Times reports.

69 comments:

PhilD said...: Te Ukraine should demand the destalinization, demilitarization and neutralization of Russia.; 3/16/22, 12:34 PM
Sebastian said...: "the neutral status of Ukraine, its demilitarisation"

Giving in is terrible, and Putin may demand more, Sudetenland don't you know, but why would Zelensky reject this out of hand, especially if no more deaths is his priority? The Ukrainians improved their bargaining position by fighting hard. With outside support, they now need to put it to good use.; 3/16/22, 12:37 PM
The Cracker Emcee Refulgent said...: “denazification”

He’s learned a thing or two from the Gaslight Left. Trump wasn’t wrong about Putin’s wattage. It’s possible to be very intelligent and have poor judgment at the same time.; 3/16/22, 12:38 PM
Rabel said...: Neutral and demilitarized are very different things.

How could the Ukrainians possibly put any trust in the people who were emphatically saying that they were not going to invade right up to the minute they invaded?; 3/16/22, 12:41 PM
dbp said...: " But he said Russia would consider 'the neutral status of Ukraine, its demilitarisation, and its denazification' in negotiations to end the conflict.""

This amounts to Ukraine agreeing to be a puppet state of Russia. Ukraine can't make alliances. Ukraine can't defend itself by having a military--Russia will of course, keep their military. Putin will decide which Ukrainians are NAZIs and therefore will choose who runs the Ukrainian government.; 3/16/22, 12:42 PM
Mike Sylwester said...: Vladimir Putin and Justin Trudeau both have to deal with infestations of Nazis, and Joe Biden has to deal with an infestation of White Supremacists.

Among those three leaders, there is a basis for mutual understanding and for future cooperation.; 3/16/22, 12:53 PM
Wince said...: The strength or weakness of Putin's position will be revealed not necessarily by what he'll offer, but what he'll accept.; 3/16/22, 12:55 PM
Michael K said...: This is what is needed to end this crisis. Not a bunch of chickenhawks of both parties threatening war.; 3/16/22, 12:55 PM
Greg The Class Traitor said...: "He claimed that Russia had no option but to invade Ukraine and accused Western countries of wishing to 'continue the bloodshed' by supplying weapons to the Kyiv government. But he said Russia would consider 'the neutral status of Ukraine, its demilitarisation, and its denazification' in negotiations to end the conflict."

Ok, let's start with some basics, shall we?
1: Putin lies. If you believe anything he says, be it about his motivations, desires, hopes, fears, or anything else, you're a fool. Examine his actions, and their easily predictable consequences. Examine his statements, but for what they say about his underlying mindset. For example: Putin was commenting on the Ukrainian "de-communisting" program, and said words to the effect of "it's the Communists who made Ukraine a separate country, so if they want to get rid of everything Communist, they need to rejoin Russia".
Here we see upset at people attacking Communism (because he's really upset that the USSR ended), and his actual long term goals (the destruction of Ukraine as a nation and its absorption into Russia)

2: Biden* lies. If you believe anything he says, be it about his motivations, desires, hopes, fears, or anything else, you're a fool. Examine his actions, and their easily predictable consequences. Examine his statements, but for what they say about his underlying mindset.
So, does Biden* want Putin defeated?
The Biden* Admin dropped Trump's sanctions against the Nord Stream 2 pipeline, a pipeline that is being created to make it so Russia can send gas to Western Europe for hard currency payment, while cutting off Ukraine, which doesn't pay nearly as well.
The Biden* Admin dropped Trump's support for an Israeli gas pipeline to Europe. Because apparently giving Europe non-Russian natural gas supplies is contrary to the Biden Admin agenda
The Biden* Admin dropped Trump's support for US oil production, and instead has focused on getting other countries to increase their production.
If that were a "climate change" issue, then they wouldn't be pushing Iran and Venezuela to increase their production, they'd be celebrating the lower supply and higher prices.
So instead it's about supporting counties like Russia, Iran and Venezuela, while harming the US
The Biden* Admin is relying on Russia to make and maintain its deal with Iran.

The Biden* Admin didn't offer Zalensky support in fighting Putin's invasion, the invasion that Achileies et. al. insist that the Biden* Admin "caused" by offering to let Ukraine into NATO. They offered him a ride out, where they could parade him as a totem to American voters in a Wag the Dog attempt to get voters to "rally around the Flag" and the Democrats.

Zalensky "screwed" Biden* by trying to be an actual leader, and fight for his country and his people.
Public opinion has forced the same German leaders who were happy to get Nord Stream 2, and so make it possible to cut off all gas supplies to Ukraine, to support Ukraine after Putin invaded.

Not "the WEF", not "Western elites". All those love Putin, and desperately want to be more like him.
This war is being driven by the fact that ordinary people understand that Putins' victory is a threat to them. That Putins' demands bold down to "screw what the people [of Ukraine, this time] want, what matters is what the rulers, even the rulers of other countries, want".

Actual populists, conservatives, and non-fans of Western elites are therefore on teh side of "Ukraine wins, Putin loses"; 3/16/22, 1:02 PM
TheOne Who Is Not Obeyed said...: Blinked.; 3/16/22, 1:04 PM
RideSpaceMountain said...: People don't appreciate how much courage it takes to be a pariah. Nor do they appreciate how history has a way of rehabilitating and rewarding people and entities that 'will not go along' and endure the hardships of 'going it alone'

I can envision of future where the 'cancelled' the pariahs the excluded are found to be right. Worst still for those that cancelled, they might end up being very successful.

Going it alone is very very dangerous to people who's power relies heavily on social connection and influence. People and entities like that fear the highly intelligent and unrealized resources of the isolated...they can't control them.; 3/16/22, 1:06 PM
Achilles said...: It would be interesting to see what the warmongers here thought about the Azov battalions that the Ukrainians have been sending into the two breakaway provinces.; 3/16/22, 1:07 PM
Now is the winter of our discontent made glorious summer by this son of New York said...: Biden just promised Ukraine combat drones to keep this deal from happening. We'll see, maybe I am wrong, but that's how it looks.; 3/16/22, 1:13 PM
Rusty said...: You made me beat you.; 3/16/22, 1:55 PM
rehajm said...: Twitter must have finally cancelled his blue check mark…oops. Nope. Still there…; 3/16/22, 1:57 PM
Leland said...: A pathway to peace. I like that rhetoric better than our politicians suggesting "no-fly zones". And yeah, can we stop with the "liberty cabbage" part, on both sides? I'd love to see action on this soon, but I doubt it. Then again, I didn't think we were this close to Putin being ready to negotiate peace and willing to use the word "neutral status", yet here we are.; 3/16/22, 1:58 PM
Big Mike said...: He … accused Western countries of wishing to 'continue the bloodshed' by supplying weapons to the Kyiv government.

He’s never heard of Stinger missiles in Afghanistan? I mean, it’s not as though it’s an unprecedented action.; 3/16/22, 1:59 PM
Howard said...: The bully doesn't like being bullied with No Fly Zone Sabre rattlers. He's looking for an off ramp. If Ukraine is denazified Russia must dekleptocratize and dePutinize. Send him off to Marlon Brando's Island in the South Pacific. Give the Oligarchy McDonalds franchises to run, nothing else.; 3/16/22, 2:01 PM
Kevin said...: and its denazification

Acceptance of the pretext for war must be included in the documents to end the war, in order to validate the pretext.

Propaganda now, propaganda tomorrow, propaganda forever.; 3/16/22, 2:12 PM
Left Bank of the Charles said...: Crocodile tears, Putin is trying to cancel Ukraine. I suppose that a demilitarized Ukraine that is a member of NATO or the EU could still call on their alliance partners if attacked. Does he propose that Crimea will be demilitarized too? We should jump on it if that is the offer. We could also ask that Belarus be demilitarized.; 3/16/22, 2:13 PM
Tomcc said...: Possibly a hopeful sign. Possibly.; 3/16/22, 2:14 PM
rcocean said...: So, PUTIN just repeated his war aims, which were announced weeks ago. Namely:

1 Neutralization of the Ukraine
2 Ukraine to ratify idependece of the breakway Republics
3 Ukraine to accept loss of crimea

Will this "report" STOP idiots like Miss Lindsey or Romney or Pelosi from screeching that "Putin is Hilter and wants to CONQUER THE WORLD!!"? Not on your life. Y'see moderation on the part of Russia is JUST A SMOKESCREEN. He'll be back, stronger than ever, and ATTACK ALL OF EUROPE!!!!

So, Russia can't be trusted. Its us - or Putin. We can only "win" by destroying Russia. Or as Mittens said, Russia needs to "Fear us".; 3/16/22, 2:17 PM
Wince said...: It's hard to tell whether the Biden regime will want this war to drag-out for their own purposes or not.

Doubtful Biden would get much credit for any armistice, and then attention would turn to the protracted disasters completely of his own making.

Scranton Joe checks his shadow and says 4 more weeks of war!; 3/16/22, 2:22 PM
Scotty, beam me up... said...: "President Putin said today that Russia was ready to discuss Ukraine’s neutral status in talks to end the conflict there as he lashed out at the West for trying to 'cancel' his country."

=====================================================================================

Said the brutal dictator who has been trying to cancel the country of Ukraine for the past 3 weeks…; 3/16/22, 3:03 PM
Valentine Smith said...: Get the killing stopped.

Aside from this craven invasion, I really am curious when all this Russia hate started with the Dems. I mean Teddy Kennedy went hat-in-hand to them back in the old cold days and the Big O publicly told Putin he needed to wait for O's reelection for some movement. That's only 10 years ago. What happened? More profitable graft in Ukraine? Clinton Global Initiative shut down so no new monies available? What happened?; 3/16/22, 3:15 PM
Big Mike said...: Good, if true. And just think! It was achieved without a US-enforced no-fly zone!; 3/16/22, 3:18 PM
Anonymous said...: Dear Vlad...

Go *bleep* yourself.; 3/16/22, 3:20 PM
RMc said...: Dear Vladmir,

NUTS!

Volodymyr; 3/16/22, 3:28 PM
Quaestor said...: But he said Russia would consider 'the neutral status of Ukraine, its demilitarisation, and its denazification'

Putin's last territorial demand in Europe.

Russia is losing this war by failing to win it quickly. Naturally, Putin wants to win by enlisting Biden, which is much, much easier than fighting millions of Ukrainian partisans for twenty years. Clausewitz famously defined war as politics by other means, however, anything connected to Joe Biden's politics is war by other means, usually on the American middle class. Making Biden politics on Ukrainians will at least be a switch.; 3/16/22, 3:43 PM
Owen said...: He's hurting. Good.; 3/16/22, 3:49 PM
Indigo Red said...: Russia faces sovereign default in a few hours or days. Putin has no more money nor access to it. Very soon his soldiers will not be paid and his war will fizzle or fry depending upon someone to press the nuke button for free.; 3/16/22, 4:05 PM
Rusty said...: You don't call for terms when you're winning.; 3/16/22, 4:24 PM
jaydub said...: So, Welensky won! BTW, demilitarization does not mean giving up weapons, but mainly keeping foreign troops out. The rest is just Putin's face saving BS. It was completely obvious by the end of the first week to anyone with any kind of combat experience that Putin was in way over his hear and Ukraine would bleed him dry. The Ruskie army is a Potemkin army because the fundamental construct of the Ruskie army is fatally flawed: 1) Total central control, 2) Poorly trained conscripts 3) Poor use of NCO'S, 4) unwillingness to take calculated risks to achieve significant objectives, 5) terrible weapons systems performance, 6) extremely poor training and 7) inability to conduct large scale combined arms offensives.

The Russians did the world a favor by exposing for everyone to see just how inept they are.; 3/16/22, 4:27 PM
Earnest Prole said...: Putin lashed out at the West for trying to cancel his country, adding that Tucker Carlson had warned America against the dangers of cancel culture.; 3/16/22, 4:33 PM
Rory said...: "I really am curious when all this Russia hate started with the Dems. I mean Teddy Kennedy went hat-in-hand to them back in the old cold days and the Big O publicly told Putin he needed to wait for O's reelection for some movement."

Not addressing specific politicians' statements, but I think leftists generally can get whipped into a frenzy by the notion of Russian nationalism. It's a vestige of the Russian Civil War and subsequent disinformation campaigns and I don't think your average American lefty even knows that it's part of the ideology.; 3/16/22, 4:34 PM
Jim at said...: I really am curious when all this Russia hate started with the Dems.

When they became convinced Putin is a right-wing stooge in bed with Trump.

Seriously. I've asked that question. That's the answer I get. Every time.

No mention of the Reset Button. No mention of flexibility after the election. Even no recognition of Russia's actions in Crimea in 2014.

Putin right wing Trump stooge.

They're idiots.; 3/16/22, 4:40 PM
Chris Lopes said...: "The bully doesn't like being bullied with No Fly Zone Sabre rattlers."

The No Fly Zone Sabre rattlers are out of their fucking minds. Giving the Ukrainians all the military toys they can play with is one thing. It increases the cost to Putin without risking a shooting war between nuclear powers.

A no fly zone would involve NATO aircraft shooting down Russian aircraft. Putin's likely response would be to attack the bases the NATO aircraft come from. The NATO response to that would likely be to attack the bases the Russian aircraft come from. In other words, the war we spent much of the last half of the 20th century trying to avoid becomes all but inevitable. Whiskey Tango Foxtrot.; 3/16/22, 4:44 PM
J. Farmer said...: "Good. I don't think Klitsch should go into the government. I don't think it's necessary, I don't think it's a good idea...I think Yats is the guy who's got the economic experience, the governing experience. He's the... what he needs is Klitsch and Tyahnybok on the outside. He needs to be talking to them four times a week, you know. I just think Klitsch going in... he's going to be at that level working for Yatseniuk, it's just not going to work." -Phone call between Victoria Nuland, then Assistant Secretary of State for European and Eurasian Affairs, and Geoff Pyatt, then US Ambassador to Ukraine, January 2014

Nuland is currently the Under Secretary of State for Political Affairs. She is related, by marriage, to the neocon famous Kagan family. Her husband is Robert Kagan, and he writes articles like "Backing Into World War III: America must check the assertive, rising powers of Russia and China before it’s too late" from February of 2017.; 3/16/22, 4:48 PM
Browndog said...: Kurt Schlichter

Here’s a fun trick. Ask people where they would like Russia to be in relation to United States in five years.

An enemy? A friend? A sort of ally? Neutral?

So what is the plan to get there?

Biden just authorized another boat load of weapons to Ukraine. We are knee deep in this.; 3/16/22, 4:51 PM
Meade said...: “ How could the Ukrainians possibly put any trust in the people who were emphatically saying that they were not going to invade right up to the minute they invaded?”

Never trust a calm dog. (Nor a sleeping bear.)

Did anyone believe Putin’s emphatic denials? Probably not. I believe Putin believed he could use stern warnings (while massing troops on the border) and Ukraine would believe they needed to give up. Both believed wrong and then it became www.WWIII. The very first war in human history probably started the very same way but without cyber.

Dr. Igor: Then you won't be angry?
Dr. Frederick Frankenstein: I will NOT be angry.
Igor: Abby someone.
…
[grabs Igor and starts throttling him]; 3/16/22, 4:51 PM
wildswan said...: One thing I notice is that in the old days we held back the Russians by threatening to use nuclear weapons if they invaded Germany or Nato because we knew the Russians had a much bigger and more effective army which our army could not hold back. But now Russia is talking about using nuclear weapons because, it seems, that the Ukrainian army!! is almost big enough to hold back the Russians. "If Ukraine had more planes this might be over," Zelensky says, and then Putin says: "If you do that, I'll use nuclear weapons." Notice Putin doesn't say: "In your dreams."; 3/16/22, 5:07 PM
Rabel said...: "Did anyone believe Putin’s emphatic denials?"

I did.

Trump did too, for what it's worth.

Not because I "trusted" Vladimir Putin, but because it looked to me like a losing situation for him if he did invade. Now, he's fucked whatever the outcome. So is his beloved Russia.; 3/16/22, 5:13 PM
NorthOfTheOneOhOne said...: Valentine Smith said...

Aside from this craven invasion, I really am curious when all this Russia hate started with the Dems.

They had to blame someone for Hillary Clinton running the worst presidential campaign in history and losing to Donald Trump.; 3/16/22, 5:31 PM
n.n said...: 32 trimesters, better late, than never, for the regime in Kiev to offer reconciliation and remediation to the Ukrainian people disenfranchised by the Slavic Spring and under assault (e.g. denial of services, attacks by the military and paramilitary groups) from a Kiev-aligned axis. Thus may conclude the fateful progress of Obama/Biden's Spring series from Tripoli to Cairo to Damascus to Baghdad to Kabul to Kiev and other places he couldn't visit. Next, revelation of the Chinese... Ukrainian Wuhan 2.0.

Oh, well. It's not like WMD was ever a singular cause to end the first Iraq war that started in Kuwait, was sustained under an administration that was otherwise occupied with novel wars of annexation and "benefits", then concluded in a court... no summary judgments, no labels, no social justice and sentences of sodomy and abortion in the Spring.

32 trimesters... Good luck to the Ukrainian people.; 3/16/22, 5:35 PM
cubanbob said...: Unfortunately I see the war going on for at least two weeks, perhaps a month more. Putin will get his two breakaway republics and more of the Black Sea and the Sea of Azov. With that done ( Sea of Azov) Ukraine is formally denazified. Ukraine declares itself neutral but maintains its Armed Forces and becomes a de facto member of the EU while maintaining trade relations with Russia. Putin gets all of the sanctions lifted and Nord Stream 2 completed. The Europeans quietly tell Biden to step aside and let the gas pipeline from Israel be constructed. Ukraine get its de facto membership in the EU contingent on a major clean up of its corruption and the largely Russian part of the Ukraine that is being badly shelled by the Russians decide to stay in the UKraine. I suspect that Putin would take that deal and so will Zelenski. Naturally the Ukraine will need a colossal amount to rebuild so Uncle Sam and The EU are going to be the big donors.; 3/16/22, 5:48 PM
Kevin said...: Zelinskyy should issue a two-word reply:

Budapest Memorandum.; 3/16/22, 5:58 PM
Tom Grey said...: Trust ... but verify.
Russia/ Putin now realizes he can't win according to his Plan A (2 day victory), nor Plan B (massive Russian overwhelming force). So he's ready to stop fighting if he can save face, somehow.

I suggest Ukraine agree to being neutral (armed more like Finland), no foreign bases; plus UN / Russia / plus NATO peacekeeping forces in Donbas & Crimea, and local referendums to vote on being Russian or Ukraine.

Killing now, for possible future NATO, might not be worth it - tho Ukraine/ Zelensky might think he can get more and so it's worth it.

Russia has to have cease fire, and allow food & humanitarian aid to cities.
Ending sanctions when? when Russian troops are out of Ukraine.; 3/16/22, 6:05 PM
William said...: Asking for your opponent's unconditional surrender is not usually regarded as a peace feeler, but they have a different kind of diplomacy over there. He's not shelling a maternity hospital so that's a positive development....These are people whose immediate forebears perished in boxcars, famines, purges, mismanaged wars, and wood alcohol poisoning. You couldn't dodge catastrophe with the right ideology, religion, capital reserves, or connections. You learn by experience and there's very little in the Ukrainian or, for that matter, the Russian experience to draw a useful lesson from.; 3/16/22, 6:09 PM
BUMBLE BEE said...: C'mon man! Midterm elections await. Democrats need this chance to show they can accomplish something! Hope it isn't WWIII.; 3/16/22, 6:11 PM
StephenFearby said...: Daily Star UK (Linked to by Drudge)

Twisted Russian MP urges Putin to fire nuclear missile at US to 'send a message'

Russian Duma member Yevgeny Alexeyevich Fyodorov has claimed America would not retaliate if Russia fired a ballistic missile at them, with casualties of roughly 10,000 predicted by the politician

'...Fyodorov, in an interview translated by MEMRI TV, said: "Until there is a physical demonstration of (Moscow's) determination, America will perceive the positions of Russia and (Putin) as a bluff.

"So they need a demonstration. The most convincing demonstration would be the physical destruction of America's Defence Department facilities. I'm talking about facilities, which international law grants us the right to destroy."

The Russian parliament member also alleged that the missile strikes could hit the laboratories that "develop COVID-19".

He continued: "For instance, these could be the very same laboratories that develop COVID-19 or we could demonstratively strike the test range in Nevada with a ballistic missile."

https://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/world-news/russia-threaten-america-nuclear-strike-26471984; 3/16/22, 6:16 PM
Tom Grey said...: Zelenskyy's address to US Congress is strong:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TETSeOjRUp0; 3/16/22, 6:37 PM
Geoff Matthews said...: Ukraine should adopt a policy of Finlandization. Maintain neutrality in exchange for independence.
Finland prospered from it. They suffered far more from the Winter Wars than Ukraine has from this, but were able to maintain a measure of independence.
But this would require a more transparent society. And Ukraine is a very corrupt country. So it probably won't happen.; 3/16/22, 6:38 PM
Greg The Class Traitor said...: Sebastian said...
Giving in is terrible, and Putin may demand more, Sudetenland don't you know, but why would Zelensky reject this out of hand, especially if no more deaths is his priority? The Ukrainians improved their bargaining position by fighting hard. With outside support, they now need to put it to good use.

1: Why are you so eager for Biden to get what he wants?
2: Why are you so eager for Putin to get what he wants?
3: Zelensky will do what he thinks best. For myself, saying "screw you Putin, your army is overextended and we just need to hold on until you collapse, then we will completely drive you out of all of Ukraine" seems like a better choice for rallying the troops and civilians to keep on fighting
4: Keeping Ukrainians out of Russian slavery should be Zelensky's priority, which means beating Russia and not turning over any part of it to Putin.

Ukraine has apparently done a really good job of hampering Russian logistics, and the Russians appear to have done a really bad job at logistics. If these are both true, then the last think Ukraine wants is a cease-fire.

They want to force the Russians to use up what they have, and they want to be free to shoot up any new things Russia tries to bring in.

Because if you get a modern army sufficiently logistically extended, it collapses.

Being bigger just means their requirements to not collapse are bigger, too.; 3/16/22, 7:13 PM
Greg The Class Traitor said...: Achilles said...
It would be interesting to see what the warmongers here thought about the Azov battalions that the Ukrainians have been sending into the two breakaway provinces.

Shits to give? 0

Compare the loss of life, damage, and destruction of the Russian artillery bombing Ukrainian cities.

Consider the misery, starvation, privation, and death happening to cities that are blockaded by the Russians.

Shall we total up both sides, and see whose damage is worse?

When Putin set out to dismember Ukraine because they were able to kick out his puppet government, he named the stakes, and set all teh rest in motion.

So IMAO that's where all the blame lies.; 3/16/22, 7:19 PM
Greg The Class Traitor said...: Mike Sylwester said...
Vladimir Putin and Justin Trudeau both have to deal with infestations of Nazis, and Joe Biden has to deal with an infestation of White Supremacists.

Among those three leaders, there is a basis for mutual understanding and for future cooperation.

Yes. Exactly

Which is why I want Putin destroyed. Because right now he's the one of the three we can get to; 3/16/22, 7:21 PM
Greg The Class Traitor said...: tim in vermont said...
Biden just promised Ukraine combat drones to keep this deal from happening. We'll see, maybe I am wrong, but that's how it looks.

1: The deal isn't going to happen
2: Biden desperately wants the deal to happen, because he's solidly pro-Putin (see Nord Stream 2 pipeline, sanctions pulled)
3: You are, and have been, completely wrong about everything when it Russia and Ukraine; 3/16/22, 7:24 PM
Greg The Class Traitor said...: rcocean said...
So, PUTIN just repeated his war aims, which were announced weeks ago. Namely:

1 Neutralization of the Ukraine
2 Ukraine to ratify idependece of the breakway Republics
3 Ukraine to accept loss of crimea

Which is t say: He wants Ukraine partitioned and crippled, so he can finish the conquest later

Will this "report" STOP idiots like Miss Lindsey or Romney or Pelosi from screeching that "Putin is Hilter and wants to CONQUER THE WORLD!!"?

Yep, all Hitler wanted to do was re-militarize the Rhine.

No, all he wanted to do was have an Anschluss with his brother Germans in Austria

Well, actually he also wants the Sudetenland. But if you just give him that, we'll have peace in our time.

Because we all know that Putin would never say one thing, then do another. Or take one deal, then come back later and demand more.

Just how stupid are you?; 3/16/22, 7:28 PM
Quaestor said...: @Meade:

That's Froederich, IF you don't mind.

(BTW, I'm a rather brilliant surgeon. Perhaps I can help you with that beak?); 3/16/22, 7:39 PM
Achilles said...: Indigo Red said...

Russia faces sovereign default in a few hours or days. Putin has no more money nor access to it. Very soon his soldiers will not be paid and his war will fizzle or fry depending upon someone to press the nuke button for free.

The problem here is Putin is still getting Oil money. He can pay for some stuff.

The sovereign default is going to fall on the little people in Russia. Not Putin. But nobody in power gives a shit about any of the little people.

The only way we choke Putin off is to lower the price of Oil.; 3/16/22, 7:51 PM
Narayanan said...: why this hurry to redesign Russia Government?
why is that worth thousands of Ukrainian and Russian lives?
why is this being decided in USA and EU / UN swamp?
did the oligarchs leave pickings to be still had in Ukraine and Russia for West corruptocrats?
or will the oligarchs have to deal for their lives and wealth?; 3/16/22, 8:27 PM
walter said...: Biden asked for a minor military action. The definition varies.; 3/16/22, 8:43 PM
Greg The Class Traitor said...: jaydub said...
The Ruskie army is a Potemkin army because the fundamental construct of the Ruskie army is fatally flawed: 1) Total central control, 2) Poorly trained conscripts 3) Poor use of NCO'S, 4) unwillingness to take calculated risks to achieve significant objectives, 5) terrible weapons systems performance, 6) extremely poor training and 7) inability to conduct large scale combined arms offensives.

You left out the utter corruption.
https://www.realcleardefense.com/articles/2022/03/10/assessing_the_russian_army_performance_after_one_week_of_war_821037.html

Their large scale "exercises" appear to be scripted, which is just about the most evil thing you can do to your troops.
Their high tech communications equipment is crap that doesn't perform in any way like those lower down told those at the top
Their maintenance sucks (see the trucks with blown out sidewalls)

When senior officers are using the military budget as their personal piggy banks, when everyone lies up and down the line, it's not possible to have a good military

And that's apparently the situation in Russia right now

I wonder if the situation in CCP China is any better? Just how many of the PLA's flag officers are "princelings"?

When was the last time the CCP had a brigade or larger fight a relatively equal enemy? I.E. one they needed actual competence to overcome?

Korean War?

When they fought with Vietnam, did they win on ability, or just mass?; 3/16/22, 9:56 PM
Greg The Class Traitor said...: Browndog said...
Kurt Schlichter
Here’s a fun trick. Ask people where they would like Russia to be in relation to United States in five years.

With all due respect to Kurt, it's a meaningless question, because we don't get a vote.

Putin hates the US because we beat the USSR, we protect countries from Russian domination, and because all his pre-1991 life the US was the enemy.

As long as he's in charge, Russia will be our enemy.

Once he's gone, unless all his proteges get wiped out too, the Russia government will still be run by people who hate America.

There is nothing we can do to get them to actually like us. So all we can reasonably do is focus on blocking them from harming anyone to their west.

There's some elsewhere who I'd like to protect, too, but we just don't have the logistic capability to stop Russia there.

In Europe we can, and therefore should.

because keeping your enemies from growing more powerful is what smart people do; 3/16/22, 10:02 PM
Greg The Class Traitor said...: NorthOfTheOneOhOne said...
Valentine Smith said...
Aside from this craven invasion, I really am curious when all this Russia hate started with the Dems.

They had to blame someone for Hillary Clinton running the worst presidential campaign in history and losing to Donald Trump.

Actually, it started because they needed something to distract from Hillary's illegal email server that gave all her Secretary of State emails to China and Russia. So the Hillary campaign decided to make up the "Trump Russia collusion" story.

Possibly because Manafort made Russia more believable than China; 3/16/22, 10:04 PM
Greg The Class Traitor said...: wildswan said...
One thing I notice is that in the old days we held back the Russians by threatening to use nuclear weapons if they invaded Germany or Nato .. now Russia is talking about using nuclear weapons because, it seems, that the Ukrainian army!! is almost big enough to hold back the Russians.

I'll just note here that "if you attack us and look like you're going to win, we'll nuke you" is on a much better moral plane than "we're attacking you, and if you don't let us win we'll nuke you"; 3/16/22, 10:10 PM
Greg The Class Traitor said...: Tom Grey said...
Trust ... but verify.
Russia/ Putin now realizes he can't win according to his Plan A (2 day victory), nor Plan B (massive Russian overwhelming force). So he's ready to stop fighting if he can save face, somehow.

I suggest Ukraine agree to being neutral (armed more like Finland), no foreign bases; plus UN / Russia / plus NATO peacekeeping forces in Donbas & Crimea, and local referendums to vote on being Russian or Ukraine.

Killing now, for possible future NATO, might not be worth it

It's killing now, to still ahve a country in 10 years.

If the result of this invasion is "Russia gets international recognition that they own part of what used to be Ukraine, and Ukraine must give up ability to be in any aliance that could defeat a Russian invasion", then it's a clean win for Putin

Russia has to have cease fire, and allow food & humanitarian aid to cities.
No, no no.

Russian troops appear to be heading for "no supplies", no later than the end of this month.

A cease fire helps Russia more than Ukraine; 3/16/22, 10:15 PM
Greg The Class Traitor said...: Achilles said...
Indigo Red said...

Russia faces sovereign default in a few hours or days. Putin has no more money nor access to it. Very soon his soldiers will not be paid and his war will fizzle or fry depending upon someone to press the nuke button for free.

The problem here is Putin is still getting Oil money. He can pay for some stuff.

But he can't import it.

The sovereign default is going to fall on the little people in Russia.

Snicker. What is it that you think the "little people" of Russia are getting from that foreign money?

You have to be one of the "not little people" for that to impact your life in Russia.

The only way we choke Putin off is to lower the price of Oil.

you've finally figured it out!
That's right, the only way we can hurt Putin is to undo about 100 Biden* Admin actions taken since Jan 2021.
Which won't happen.

Because the Biden* Admin likes Putin, and wants him to win.

That's why Biden said a "small incursion" would be ok. Just nothing too big to get the peasants (that's you and me) worked up.

But Vlad got greedy, and took to much, so we little people (but not you) started forcing Western Gov'ts to do what they hate, and actually fight Putin.

News flash: The last thing in the world the SPD Chancellor of Germany wanted to do was to actually re-arm the German military.

Well, the second to last thing. The last thing was to get turfed out by a really angry German populace.
And that's the only reason why he's opposing Putin in Ukraine; 3/16/22, 10:24 PM
Josephbleau said...: "He claimed that Russia had no option but to invade Ukraine and accused Western countries of wishing to 'continue the bloodshed' by supplying weapons to the Kyiv government."

Hitler claims that Germany had no option but to invade France. Yhe United States is continuing the bloodshed by leasing old destroyers to the English.

Nothing ever changes.; 3/17/22, 12:12 AM
Leland said...: But he can't import it.; 3/17/22, 8:54 AM