According to "Putin announces a ‘military operation’ in Ukraine as the U.N. Security Council pleads with him to pull back" (NYT).
Mr. Putin cast his operation both as an attack on “Nazis” in Ukraine, as well as rejection of the American-led world order. Ukraine’s aspiration to join NATO, he said, represented a dire threat to Russia. He evoked the NATO bombing of Yugoslavia in 1999 and the American invasion of Iraq in 2003 to make it clear that he viewed the West as morally bankrupt.
“For 30 years, we deliberately and patiently tried to reach agreement with the NATO countries on equal and indivisible security in Europe,” Mr. Putin said. But Russia was met, he said, with “cynical lies” and “blackmail” on the part of the West. The American-led West, he said, represented an “empire of lies.” ...
“You and I know that our strength lies in fairness and truth, which is on our side,” Mr. Putin said [addressing the Russian people]. “And if this is so, then it is hard not to agree that it is strength and readiness to fight that are the foundation for independence and sovereignty.”
I don't think Biden has responded to the charge of Nazism, militarization, genocide, and persecution. He simply blames Putin for choosing to go to war and notes that war brings "death and destruction." That works as an argument against ever fighting a war — including a war against genuine Nazism, militarization, genocide, and persecution.
I would like to hear a strong, clear statement detailing what's wrong with Putin's justification of his war. I would like something more erudite and fact-based than saying it was "bizarrely" asserted. From Biden's February 23rd speech:
Yesterday Vladimir Putin... bizarrely asserted that [two] regions are no longer part of Ukraine and they’re sovereign territory... Who in the Lord’s name does Putin think gives him the right to declare new so-called countries on territory that belong to his neighbors?
I'd like to hear Biden address Putin's reasons, which sound like the kind of reasons American leaders give when they invade other countries. Where's the sophistication that was supposed to come with the ousting of Trump? I can do without rhetorical questions involving "the Lord."
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125 comments:
but? but didn't The Ukraine give MILLIONS of Dollars to "the big guy"??
what's the point of paying Bribes To The Bidens, if your country can be invaded???
Exactly! Seems like Putin's using the same reasons the US asserted for Kosovo.
So Putin is using the same language that Progressives have called half of our country for 6 years, and we are supposed to be worried about Ukraine??
fox new's headline says "MASS CASUALTIES!" with a subhead saying 'Dozens reported Dead'
Serious Question
If 'Dozens' dead are 'MASS CASUALTIES!' What would they do, if an ACTUAL War started?
you know, with moderate Actual War Casualties of say, two or three thousand... A DAY??
Sorry, but i just got back from Shiloh Natl Battlefield, which Most People have NEVER heard of,
because it only had moderate casualties
Seriously though.. If we call 'Dozens' 'Mass', we'll need new words*
new words* Kilodeaths? Fractions of Megadeaths?
At the very same time OUR country is being silently invaded, because the media refuses to report about it.
Many Ukrainians saw Hitler as a savior, which tells you how bad it was to live under the boot of communism. We throw around the term "genocide" but Ukraine was the crucible of conflict between two genocidal maniacs with vast military power. Since our press and academia sympathizes with communists, we don't hear much of what the communists did in Ukraine, while Hitler's horrific crimes are pored over endlessly. Imagine the hell it must have been to experience the invasion by Nazi armies as a "liberation."
One temptation is to get tangled up in a propaganda, counter-propaganda contest. What can Biden say when members of his own political party in think pieces about the November 2022 election lead with their concern about "beating back the Republican Party’s dangerous turn toward authoritarianism and its tolerance for election subversion"? Michael Bloomberg said that yesterday.
Personally, I am concerned about beating back the Democratic Party's dangerous turn toward authoritarianism and its tolerance for election subversion.
See how this works? Charges of the most fundamental vileness are floated by supposedly moderate party members free of any factual content. I heard Larry Summers say essentially the same thing to Gerard Baker this week--the memo must have gone out to the Dems to float these Putin-like charges against the GOP. And how about Justin Trudeau's line on those truckers in Ottawa--swastikas and Confederate flags, eh? Eek!! They must be racist Nazis, says the Canadian Broadcasting Corp. The Western Left has already lost the propaganda war by over-charging their opponents. I don't believe anything the US Democrats or the Canadian Liberals say unless I get independent confirmation. I am sure the Democrats and Liberals return the skepticism.
Taking a step back, and thinking of an old Wall Street aphorism (you can't make a good deal with a bad person) and a Biblical injunction (by their fruits ye shall know them), Putin is a murderer and a thug, and his critics and opponents are routinely liquidated at home and abroad. He is dangerous. Team Biden should be dealing with him in a stern and measured way, but Putin is putting boots on the ground in Ukraine and is going to end up in Kiev. Propaganda blasts against Putin are going to be easily deflected by what-aboutism. We need to look at what is actually happening and think carefully about how to respond.
I don't think Biden and his team are up to it.
Before invading Putin proclaimed the United States the JV team.
Putin said he planned to wait but he yelled ‘Cartright!’…nobody answered.
Nazis are everywhere! In Ottawa and South Carolina. And, of course, Trump is the head Nazi. Heck, a GOP candidate for NE Governor is a
Nazi.
Ich bin ein Nazi. We are all Nazis.
"to the charge of Nazism, militarization, genocide, and persecution."
That's just sick. Putin's uses the term 'denazification' for dehumanizing his victims in way the nazis dehumanized their victims. As for 'genocide' the Holodomor comes to mind, inflicted on the Ukraine by Russia (granted, under Stalin's rule). As for "militarization", Putin's basically blaming the Ukrainians to find ways to defend against Putin's aggression. Blaming the victims.
And then reading some of the comments on 'right wing' sites (I don't bother with the Left ones). All I can say is that quit a lot of people not only ought to apologize to Chamberlain (which they should do anyway. Chamberlain did make a grievous fault in 1938 but where was the rest of the world?) but to Hitler himself. After all, to reference a particular point, Hitler was only 'reconstituting' Germany when he invaded Poland (/s).
This should not be a surprise to anyone, just consider the USSR's forced "Finlandization" of Finland and it absorption of Latvia, Lithuania, and Estonia.
Ukraine (Crimea) is smack dab in the middle of one of Russia's primary sea access routes, and it also produces a lot of food consumed in the region. Russia thereby sees control as crucial for its national security. The recent western talk of Ukraine joining NATO pretty much guaranteed Russia's military action.
The cold war Iron Curtain countries long ago slipped from Russia's control (e.g., Poland, E. Germany, Yugoslavia, etc.), but Ukraine forms their front doorstep. Don't forget both the French Napoleon and German Hitler invaded Russia/USSR despite home countries far away from Russia's borders...
150,000 troops sounds like a lot, until you consider that the population of Ukraine is about 43.7 million, and about 77.8% is ethnic Ukrainians (34 million). 17.3 percent are ethnic Russians. That is a large population of people who are likely to become quite restive and uncooperative even if Putin conquers the country. They are a lot more technologically sophisticated than the Afghans who gave the U.S. military decades of problems and casualties, although the Russian rules of engagement probably won’t be as restrictive as ours were. The Irish aren’t the only ones who can practice Irish democracy, either. I suspect this is going to end up being Putin’s tar baby.
Anti-Nazism: What can’t it justify?
What Biden should say: "From hell's heart, I stab at thee. For hate's sake, I spit my last breath at thee."
To expect inspiring rhetoric from this ridiculous, hollow shell of a man, or even a clear argument that can be understood over his slurred speech and self-interruptions, is a fool's errand.
To quote a different movie: "Get used to disappointment."
Morning Joe just blamed Trump for the invasion. Something about how Trump should have been removed from office over that phone call.
Those Nazis are everywhere! If you see any, you are entitled —no, required— to hunt them down and exterminate them. Never mind about borders and collateral damage.
Speaking of borders, it’s a nice surprise to hear Biden talking about them as if they meant something. Maybe someday he’ll get around to policing ours.
I'd like to hear Biden address Putin's reasons, which sound like the kind of reasons American leaders give when they invade other countries.
And that Trudeau is using to oppress his own people.
No sympathy for anyone who voted for Biden or abstained so they could blame the results of the election on others. Neither Trump nor Biden was a mystery to the electorate. No matter which candidate one chose, making a choice was as clear cut as any election in my lifetime. The people who voted for Biden or stayed home got what they asked for. If what we're facing now is a surprise to them, then they're willfully blind. Even Obama told people who Biden is.
Putin learned well watching western elite leftists who throw the insult "racist and Nazi" around.
What's with "Kyiv"? It's Kiev. It's been Kiev forever.
The Great Gate of Kiev Mussorgski
"Where's the sophistication that was supposed to come with the ousting of Trump? "
Good question.
"I would like to hear a strong, clear statement detailing what's wrong with Putin's justification of his war. I would like something more erudite and fact-based than saying it was "bizarrely" asserted."
Shoulda voted.
From the article:
"Mr. Putin cast his operation both as an attack on “Nazis” in Ukraine, as well as rejection of the American-led world order."
To Leftists in any country, but especially our own, anyone who is not to the left of Trotsky is a Nazi. Sometimes they're more polite and just call them "far-right.
Jack Posobiec
Many in the Biden Admin like Tony Blinken, Jake Sullivan, Jon Finer, and Victoria Nuland see Ukraine as unfinished business from their time in the Obama Admin
The plan was for Ukraine to join NATO/EU under Hillary
Now they are picking up where they left off
rhhardin said...
"What's with "Kyiv"? It's Kiev. It's been Kiev forever.
The Great Gate of Kiev Mussorgski"
Kyiv not Kiev
"KyivNotKiev is an online campaign started by the Ukrainian Ministry of Foreign Affairs (MFA) together with the 15 member center for strategical communications "StratCom Ukraine" on October 2, 2018. Its goal is to persuade English-language media and organizations to exclusively use Kyiv (derived from the Ukrainian language name) instead of Kiev (derived from the Russian language name) as the one true name of the Ukrainian capital.[1][2] It is a part of the wider campaign "CorrectUA"."
Also, Moussorgsky was a Russkie, not Ukrainian.
So Putin is part of Antifa?
It was bizarre when Joe Biden ordered Ukrainian President to fire that country's Attorney General, because that Attorney General was investigating a natural-gas company that had hired Biden's son onto it Board of Directors.
That was bizarre!
I have a fantasy. Harris resigns. Biden appoints Trump VP and then Biden resigns. And in Biden’s resignation speech, he admits the election was rigged and stolen. Trump pardons Biden.
I said it was a FANTASY.
Biden is completely out of touch, and obviously suffering from dementia, and then acts surprised when our adversaries take advantage of his lack of leadership.
We have about 3 more years of this sort of failure.
Please lower your expectations accordingly.
And if you have friends in Taiwan, now might be a good time to invite them over for a visit.
"Where's the sophistication that was supposed to come with the ousting of Trump?"
You didn't believe that, did you? The Democrats are many things, but sophisticated is not one of them.
Smug. I can go with smug.
It took only a year for our country, our economy, our security- both within and without our borders, and the world, to fall apart under Joe Biden, Kamala Harris, Alejandro Mayorkas, Jennifer Granholm, Petey Buttigieg, Miguel Cardona, Martin Walsh, Janet Yellen, et.al.
We have not seen the worst of this election of the Feckless Wonders yet. There is more to come. Elections do have consequences. And bad tweets are far more desirable than absolute chaos on our borders, in our cities, in Europe and Asia, and the global markets. This is the beginning of the shit. And no window dressing from talking heads on NBCABCCBSCNNMSNBCPBS or text copiers at the NYT or WaPo is going to change what is.
We actually do get what we vote for.
Biden should keep his mouth shut. Debating Putin will gain nothing. What he should do and should have done is to arm the Ukrainians with defensive weapons and get the French to quietly send in their mercenary foreign legion to do some nasty behind the lines things. Biden should also quietly arm Taiwan as well now. Trump was right about pushing NATO members to up their defense spending and instead they acted foolishly and now Putin is near the door.
Just like Trudeau, Putin claims to be hunting Nazis. Weird how the worst people in the world have learned to use the language of the American Leftist to justify their own fascist actions. When quotes could be from Antifa or the Squad or a Russian dictator then the truth has already been politically assassinated.
Kipling's The Gods of the Copybook Headings is for some reason stuck in my head this morning.
"Where's the sophistication that was supposed to come with the ousting of Trump?"
Where was the common sense that was supposed to come with making a choice between Biden and Trump?
"I would like to hear"
I would like to hear x! They should be better! Why don't they do y? It's terrible!
Which is all very nice, and nicely expresses the sentiments of the Althouses of America. But it's also beside the point: you wanted Joe, or you abstained. Own it. And until the Althouses of America change their mind, really, consistently, we'll get more Joes and Kamalas and Blinkens.
This is why people need to watch Biden's total descent into senility. He couldn't have sounded more bored reading his teleprompter lines if he was an android. Maybe they did send a Biden facsimile to deliver the remarks?
Anyways, with Ukrainian aircraft fleeing to Russia, we're about to see who was right and who was pumping hasbara to gullible feminists.
Did Putin bomb polices stations and political opponents small businesses?
BLM/Antifa did more damage than Putin's cruise missiles.
So Putin is part of Antifa?
Seems that way. It's a mostly peaceful invasion.
If Putin occupies all of Ukraine, then he will be able to order that country's President to fire that country's Attorney General.
Until then, however, the foreigner who makes the decisions about firing Ukraine's attorney general is Joe Biden.
Now, let's do Taiwan...
Thanks, Joe, for being such a weak and addled president.
And thanks to the crazy lefties who comment on this blog for voting for a senile old man.
Vlad thanks you...
'What's with "Kyiv"? It's Kiev. It's been Kiev forever.'
Somehow it's the progs who get to decide pronunciation.
Off-gone-i-stohn.
Nic-a-RAH-wa.
I've always wondered why we say Paris and not Paree.
Munich and not München, etc...
Most of the ethnic Russians in Ukraine are from Stalin's day. The Ukrainian's probably still harbor feelings about the Holodomor and the settling of Russian's in Ukraine. I expect that the Ukrainians won't be welcoming the Russian troops with flags and flowers.
I'm not sure what Putin expects, but as Clyde said (2/24/22, 6:15 AM), this is likely to be a tar baby.
To be honest, though, I'm not sure what our response should be. I think it should be arm the Ukrainians to the teeth and provide whatever material support they need, but no boots on the ground or planes in the air. But I really don't know.
Exactly! Seems like Putin's using the same reasons the US asserted for Kosovo.
You mean for the same reasons that Trudeau declared martial law against the Canadian truckers?
Putin is mocking the West with our own rhetoric. It is difficult to argue that we don't deserve it, so I won't even try.
Thank Mr. Sylvester for highlighting another step towards the disaster unfolding. Biden and his clan helped loot the Ukraine and added to the corruption of that fledgling democracy. Money that could have stayed in Ukraine and been used to strengthen their defenses. Of course Joe also meddled in their internal politics and refused them the defensive weapons that Trump offered. Corruption is more effective than a bullet sometimes as Austin Bay wrote yesterday.
And while we were training our troops to march in heels, recite the evils of white supremacy and CRT, and discover our pronouns, the Russian and Chines armies were training with tanks and mortars and jets.
Thanks again, Joe and the progressive morons in this country.
Who are traitors now?
A comparison of forces:
https://youtu.be/k5wyeApOOiU
"Where's the sophistication that was supposed to come with the ousting of Trump?"
The Democrats store their sophistication in the same drawer as their testicles.
"Nuance" is when you notice that Russia controls Europe's oil and natural gas.
“I don't think Biden and his team are up to it”
He doesn’t really have a team. It’s his wife, with her participation doctorate, Klein, and a couple more as the inner core. And in charge of the Cabinet positions are political hacks, typically with their posts awarded to political factions. DOD is in the hands of incompetent political generals (see Gen Miley and the debacle abandoning Afghanistan) while throwing out the cream of our military for refusing jabs of a useless (to the military) novel gene therapy. Between that, pronouns, and Green initiatives, our military has lost effectiveness faster maybe than at any time in our history.
This was the Obama model of governance, the allocation of political fiefs as political spoils to key political constituencies. It was really the bureaucracy that ran things anyway, so why not? Everyone is happy, except maybe some Republicans. The ones who didn’t understand the system, and thought that our political leaders were supposed to do anything beyond being first in line for the looting. But at least some of the remaining generals under Obama were still competent, and Crooked Hillary and Lurch Kerry were articulate enough at 3 am to satisfy the lesser informed part of our public. Blinken appears to be an incompetent time server, with little to recommend himself/xirself.
And then there is Biden. The 3 AM call finally came, and he was officially off the clock. No one should be surprised that FJB was non campus mentus, dreaming about ice cream and Corn Pops, or whatever, when the invasion started. Odds are that whenever he had pulled the trigger would have fallen into that window of opportunity, because that covers maybe 3/4 of the clock. But one is left with the question of whether Putin picked the time of his invasion based on Biden’s bedtime. By the time he was up this morning, the Russians had already won the real war, the one that counts, the propaganda war. The Ukrainian government were officially Nazis, as well as idiots for having given up their nuclear weapons to Clinton and the Democrats.
"Its goal is to persuade English-language media and organizations to exclusively use Kyiv (derived from the Ukrainian language name) instead of Kiev (derived from the Russian language name) as the one true name of the Ukrainian capital."
So, I guess we'll be back to "Kiev" within a week.
Also, just wait until the Russians get control of the Burisma HQ and correspondence files.
Look out, Joe, there is something coming at ya! But don't worry. The CIA will send out hacks to say that it is all Russian disinformation.
Biden is senile, asleep, out to lunch. He has no idea what's going on.
Biden is calling the shots. He's destroying everything he touches.
Which is it?
A few years from now, someone will look back and note that all the problems starting from yesterday could have been avoided by a single squadron of US National Guard A-10 Warthogs sending the invading Russians, and their leader, a simple and clear message.
It might still not be too late for this message to be sent.
Tulsi Gabbard 🌺@TulsiGabbard
This war and suffering could have easily been avoided if Biden Admin/NATO had simply acknowledged Russia’s legitimate security concerns regarding Ukraine’s becoming a member of NATO, which would mean US/NATO forces right on Russia’s border
When she's right, she's right.
Elections have consequences…..
Elections have consequences…….
Nazis as in national socialists (e.g. redistributive change), rabid diversity (e.g. racism... ethnocentrism), inequity, and exclusion, and a conflict in progress without remediation following a violent, Western-backed coup to overturn an EU-audited democratic election.
Ukrainian nationalism was always stronger in the Western provinces, because of the conflict with Poland. One might think that Ukrainian animus against Russia would be stronger, because of the Holodomor, but there was so much comingling or intermingling of Russians and Ukrainians in the Eastern oblasts that national feeling isn't that strong. Some commentators have said that there doesn't seem to be much determination to resist Putin in the country, but I don't know if that's true.
"Biden" is a collective noun now. Biden the man may be asleep and not fully functional, but "Biden," that is Team Biden, can still screw everything up. Who else would be doing it? The situation does present difficulties for our usual ideas about responsibility. Biden the individual is "responsible" for the actions of his subordinates, but he's also not really "responsible" for anything he does or anything that comes out of his mouth, so where does that leave us?
Something about how Trump should have been removed from office over that phone call.
Yeah, Trump should have been impeached for having the audacity of due diligence to mitigate progress, corruption, and violence, and the "benefits" reaped thereof.
Kiev, Kyiv... Constantinople, Istanbul... potatoe, potuhtoe.
Weird, just spitballing here, but Trump’s so-called collusion/friendship with Putin seemed to quiet Putin during those years. He felt “heard” and respected. Maybe this was the same playbook as with Kim Jung Un? Just not as obvious at the time.
Who in the Lord’s name does Putin think gives him the right to declare new so-called countries on territory that belong to his neighbors?
Biden takes the Lord's name in vain. And not a little expression of bigotry through projection. This will end when there is a consensus of special, peculiar, and, perhaps, pragmatic empathetic interests.
Elections have consequences……
Elections have consequences……
Browndog writes, "Biden is senile, asleep, out to lunch. He has no idea what's going on."
All true. Nevertheless, he's the President of the United States, by hook or by crook. Consequently... "Biden is calling the shots. He's destroying everything he touches."
"Which is it?"
Both.
"I'd like to hear Biden address Putin's reasons, which sound like the kind of reasons American leaders give when they invade other countries."
Hell, it sounds like the kind of reason democrats use to denounce Republicans.
Elections have consequences……
Putin is not using the word Nazi as many in the West do. It's not mere rhetoric. The Ukrainian speakers were actually Nazis and on the side of Nazis in World War Two, and today there are literal Nazi groups in Ukraine, many of whom actively persecute Russian speakers there. There are large numbers of canonical Orthodox churches that have been confiscated by these people, and the Ukrainian government does nothing. He is referring to a genuine situation, although talk of genocide is of course hyperbolic.
>mikee said...
...all the problems starting from yesterday could have been avoided by a single squadron of US National Guard A-10 Warthogs sending the invading Russians, and their leader, a simple and clear message.<
Which squadron would have been taken care of in about 10min by Russian MIGs. Then you've got WWIII on your hands. What a clueless suggestion.
You can tell Biden is 80 y/o by that "Lord" comment. I think its brilliant of Putin to use the usual libtard rhetoic of calling his opponents "Nazis" and proclaiming he's invading to rescue "Oppressed people".
Gee, that's just the rhetoric we use when we invade countries. The USA is just killing people for the good of everyone involved. We're on a mission from God, so everything we do is AOK. We're "rescuing the Kurds" or "stopping Nazis from getting Weapons of Mass Destruction" or "Fighting for Democracy".
The fact is that if substitue "Russains in Ukraine" for "Kurds in Syria" then everything Putin is doing makes perfect sense. Or at least that's how I would explain it to Mitt Romney who thinks the Kurds are our "Noble allies".
There's no reason for Putin to take Kiev. And he does, he won't stay long. The Ukraine and Russia have a long history of working together. They are literally brothers. The Ukrainians quite rightly want to be idependent, just like Canada wants to be its own country, but there are no real areas of disagreement between them, other than a few border disputes.
The Ukrainians trying to eliminate the use of the Russian language is an obvious sore spot. Imagine if the Irish were to require the use of Galic and ban English. I don't think people would be happy.
Looks like Putin may have already been hugely successful in the denazification effort. Doesn't seem to be a single one to be found in Ukraine now. Since he already has the army there, perhaps he should also take the opportunity to seek out and punish the Bolsheviks who perpetrated the Holodomor.
Oh, wait! Never mind.
Biden used the first six months of 2021, more or less, to get the measure of his man, and the remainder of last year to formulate his strategy and coordinate with his one and only ally, Xi Jinping. After the plans were complete and the forces put into position, the arrival of Kamala Harris in Munich was the go signal, because when Biden's America, the leading effeminate nation of the effeminate West, intends nothing serious in terms of punishing aggression it sends Nothing Serious to Munich, just as the illegal immigration crisis on America's southern border was addressed by Nothing Serious not even going to the affected border to see for herself.
So far NATO is mostly silent and mostly quaking in its collective boots, especially the sickly Baltic States. Putin would love to have their ports back under Russian control, and they all know Biden has no plan and no desire to protect them.
Europe's only hope is Boris Johnson. Granted Johnson is an absurd figure with only wavering support within his own party, and his response to the pandemic has been an exercise in national paranoia, his offer of support to Ukraine has been infinitely stronger than Joe Biden's pathetic ramblings.
Unfortunately, strong defensive measures in Europe will be met by war in Asia. Just as Mussolini invaded the French Riviera in 1940, Xi will invade Taiwan.
"Biden" is a collective noun now. Biden the man may be asleep and not fully functional, but "Biden," that is Team Biden, can still screw everything up. Who else would be doing it? The situation does present difficulties for our usual ideas about responsibility. Biden the individual is "responsible" for the actions of his subordinates, but he's also not really "responsible" for anything he does or anything that comes out of his mouth, so where does that leave us?
I would answer but try to avoid harsh Anglo-Saxon terms. Thank Zuckerberg.
'It took only a year for our country, our economy, our security- both within and without our borders, and the world, to fall apart under Joe Biden, Kamala Harris, Alejandro Mayorkas, Jennifer Granholm, Petey Buttigieg, Miguel Cardona, Martin Walsh, Janet Yellen, et.al.'
Clearly you haven't been reading the geniuses on Twitter.
The adults are back in charge dontcha know : )
From Not The Bee: Here's why Putin is invading Ukraine right now.
Personnel is Policy.
I'm lobbying to get that old aphorism added to the Copybook Headings.
Foreign policy is not a matter of belief; it is of power.
Boiled down, Putin is overruning the Ukraine and saying, "What are you going to do about it?"
If he suffers no consequences, he'll do the same thing to the Baltic States, and China will invade Taiwan.
This is what you got when you "elected" Biden. Congratulations, Democrats.
"Many Ukrainians saw Hitler as a savior,"
Right up until the SS death squads showed up. Operation Barbarossa was as much a war of extermination as one of conquest. Nazi ideology saw the Slavs as subhumans who needed to be eliminated from the gene pool. They were never going to be seen as liberators, not even from Stalin's Russia.
n.n.,
Kiev, Kyiv... Constantinople, Istanbul... potatoe, potuhtoe.
Peking, Peiping, Beijing . . .
Joe Smith, don't forget the classic "Tolly-bahn."
we didn't even start fighting the nazis until they declared war on *us*.
the Afghanistan fiasco started when USA would not show evidence of Bin Laden culpable to Taliban who said show me before they could offer him up
before that it was all "America First" and "why should we care what happens to Europe"
if it's anything like the first two, this one will end well (for us at least), but the middle is going to suck for a lot of people.
Wow--Nazis in the Ukraine, Nazis amid the Canadian truckers--who knows where those rapscallions will pop up next! The Boys from Brazil never had it so good. Is it safe?
realistically - could Ukraine have retained nuclear arsenal?
Thanks Biden voters. You stupid sh*ts. It didn't have to come to this but because of your unreasoning infantile hatred of Trump the drooling cretin you installed in the Whitehouse and his Obama minions just had to roll up all the foreign gains Trump achieved. Now the intertubes are awash with fascist leftist commenters what want to send our troops to Ukraine and eastern Europe. That is the leftist meme now. You stupid, selfish mouth breathing dopes own all of this and everything that ensues.
This is lesson in the delusion of the rules-based global order that dominates the Department of State and Biden’s team. It was always a delusion which loses when powerful actors act in their own interests. All the bad actors in the world laugh in the rules-based faces - Russia, China, Iran, North Korea, etc. Trump understood this. His foreign policy was based on the best interests of the U.S. and a U.S. that was not seeking to do evil in the world. Putin did not move on Ukraine while Trump was president because Trump was unfettered by rules-based bindings.
Biden cannot articulate a valid set of reasons for opposing Putin because they all hinge on Putin not following the preferences of the rules-based crowd. No moral basis other than their precious new world order.
Russia took over Crimea. So far as I know, there has been no insurgency or even passive resistance there....The success or failure of the current Russian invasion will depend on how the Ukrainians respond. I don't know any Ukrainians or Russians, and I know little of their shared history. I do know something of Ireland and Scotland. The Irish did not wish to become part of the United Kingdom. The Scots sort of did, depending on the year. Are the Ukrainians Irish or Scottish in regards to Russian domination?....Is there any great animus between them? I know there is between Poland and Russia. Maybe they're more like the Welsh?.....Putin is something like a Bond villain. Biden has the vibe of an addled, old man. Zelensky? Not much inspiration there. I saw a few episodes of his sitcom on Netflix. He plays a sort of Ray Romano character. He's definitely not Churchill. This movie definitely has a bad guy, but where's the hero to rally behind?
Putin apparently has been listening to SJWs. I am not sure if his justification is in hopes that he will get support from the useful idiots or if he is just trolling. It is hard to say. He seems less stable than usual.
I suppose when you put an utter incompetent in charge of the free world and then stack his administration with a bunch of self-important corrupt losers, this is the sort of thing you should expect.
"In 2020 the U.S. was a net exporter of petroleum. In 2021 we imported between 12
million and 26 million barrels of crude oil and petroleum from Russia
every month. In November 2021, the most recent figures on record, the
Energy Information Agency reports that the U.S. took 17.8 million barrels."
Biden did this.
"I'd like to hear Biden address Putin's reasons"
Putin doesn't need reasons. This is a misunderstanding of how Russia and all tyrants operate. We are back in an era of might makes right.
I actually side with Putin on this. Ukraine is a gangsta state that we funnel bribery money through. And Putin has warned about Ukraine going to nato for decades.’ We would not allow China to put missiles in mexico.
Russia also hasn’t been destroying middle East countries for going on 20 years now. Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria, Libya, Egypt, etc.
We have NO HIGH GROUND here or anywhere actually for a long time
Not Sure: "It's a mostly peaceful invasion." But fiery.
I think Biden has more important tasks than responding point-by-point to Putin's absurd rantings. Like working out the details for crippling sanctions that will cut Russia off from the rest of the free world economically. Maybe we can seize the property in the US owned by Russian oligarchs tied to Putin. That would include most of Trump Tower I imagine. Not to mention most of Trump's properties in Florida.
Ukraine's Jewish president is a Nazi? The great debate begins ...
Huh. So Antifa has invaded Ukraine?
“Who in the Lord’s name does Putin think gives him the right to declare new so-called countries on territory that belong to his neighbors?”
His army gives him that right. In the real world, territory belongs to whomever can keep it. If Ukraine can’t resist Russia, or get the necessary allies, then Russia can take as much as it wants.
BTW, this is why the arms control religion is so wrong. If Ukraine had kept its nukes, it wouldn’t be under attack.
“Who in the Lord’s name does Putin think gives him the right to declare new so-called countries on territory that belong to his neighbors?”
His army gives him that right. In the real world, territory belongs to whomever can keep it. If Ukraine can’t resist Russia, or get the necessary allies, then Russia can take as much as it wants.
BTW, this is why the arms control religion is so wrong. If Ukraine had kept its nukes, it wouldn’t be under attack.
I don't think folks paid much attention to the justifications for the soviet invasions of Hungary 1956 and Czechoslovakia 1968. Which were militarily much bigger operations than this one. But Soviets had Hungarian army on its side and Czech army remained in barracks. 1968 force would have been even bigger, but Czech hardliners got wind of plans to include an East German contingent and responded, Germans? You've got to be kidding. Just 23 years after WW2. 23 years later USSR breaks up. And 23 years after fall of Berlin Wall Putin does thus crazy thing.
But at least if he realizes, like US in Iraq, that he did not gather a big enough force, he does not have as far to go for reinforcements. (Actually, Siberia is pretty far.)
"It was bizarre when Joe Biden ordered Ukrainian President to fire that country's Attorney General, because that Attorney General was investigating a natural-gas company that had hired Biden's son onto it Board of Directors."
What was really bizarre was when he bragged about it on television, and instead of getting indicted for corruption by the DOJ, he was selected President.
Who in the Lord’s name does Putin think gives him the right
The Lord? i got this! The Russian response would be: How many Divisions does he have?
jim5301 said...
I think Biden has more important tasks than responding point-by-point to Putin's absurd rantings. Like working out the details for crippling sanctions that will cut Russia off from the rest of the free world economically
jim? i mean No disrespect, but;
were you born that stupid? or did you have to go to special stupid school for a few years?
Thanks Trump voters. If not for you Pres. Clinton would have solved this problem long ago and be focused now on the incipient breakup of Bosnia Herzogovina, as threatened by its Serbian faction, egged on by Putin.
Never understood the appeal of the repeated schoolyard "were you born stupid" rant on this site. Seen it directed at me often. Remind self it could be dogs on the internet.
When Readering is right, he's right.
Go to Czechia today--the former Sudetenland--and start asking around about the Germans who used to live there.
"Germans? Germans have never lived here!"
At least in the early days after the USSR's deflation, and perhaps even now, a Westerner in a nice car in certain areas of Poland was assumed, until proven otherwise, to be a former resident looking to claim Opa and Oma's farm or backerei.
This may be the worst and last mistake Putin makes. As John Lukacs used to say, in Eastern Europe they hated, feared, and respected the Germans, but they only hated the Russians. The former Pact states certainly have no love of Russian power, and if Uke nationalism is strong and he doesn't win quick and big, he's done.
I have searched for news about "The Anti-War Movement (tm)" but only see a few brief references to some brave people in Russia. Nothing from the Wussleft of the West of course--no Republican in the White House.
Was wondering why the Russians took Chernobyl - maybe its because of the nuclear material, but its more likely because its a key point on a major highway leading to Kiev.
Maduro of Venezuela has come out in support of Putin. NOW I need Biden to explain himself.
"I actually side with Putin on this."
While I don't think getting militarily involved in this shit show is a good idea, the idea that Putin did this to combat corruption is silly. Modern Russia is a gangster state, run by criminal oligarchs. Whatever reasons Putin has for invading, good government isn't one of them.
"They're Nazis" is not actually a legitimate reason to invade a sovereign country, outside of Hollywood. Russia isn't even trying to put together a plausible case for war here. I guess it's the natural progression from Georgia 2008 (trick Georgia into attacking), Crimea in 2014 (declare the Euromaidan regime illegitimate and pretend your soldiers are independence fighters for an independent Crimea by putting them in new uniforms) to the Ukraine today (they're Nazis, NATO stooges, whatever).
"I'd like to hear Biden address Putin's reasons..."
The only thing Biden will do is shart in Putin's general direction.
Dear Ice Nine: The US tankers in Berlin were potentially a speed bump should the Russians invade Europe after WW II. Many of the US infantry in South Korea still would be cannon fodder should the Norks fire their artillery. Those two examples of decades-long successful deterrence by mere US presence make me feel less than overwhelmed by your opinion regarding the utility of having a deterrent presence. And your Vonnegut-inspired scifi name is as nihilistic as your thought processes.
Fox newsbabe: "Our thoughts and prayers are with the Ukrainians and their families."
Thoughts and Prayers Anthony Jeselnik
Mikee
I'll take Ice Nines clear headed realism over your school boy gamer dweeb fantasy. Here's a clue: western militaries don't do Kamikaze missions. Who's the nihilist now?
Thanks for pointing it out.
"Was wondering why the Russians took Chernobyl - maybe its because of the nuclear material, but its more likely because its a key point on a major highway leading to Kiev. "
The weakest thriller writer could plot a story about how the Ukrainian Patriots do a reverse red flag op waiting for Putin's legions to assault Chernobyl and then explode some artillery warheads in the sarcophagus of the #4 reactor releasing radioactivity over Europe. Putin could be blamed for firing on the dangerous area causing an international incident.
If the Ukrainians are Nazis then, by definition, Putin is ANTIFA. Forget the RPG, use fireworks and baseball bats.
Blogger Chris Lopes said...
"the idea that Putin did this to combat corruption is silly. ”
You are cherry picking. I never said at all that Putin was doing this to combat corruption. I made that statement to counteract the lying democrats “Ukraine’s is a utopia democracy” spin.
As I stated, Putin has been griping about US/Ukraine encroachment upon them for decades. And we keep pushing for nato inclusion and giving them advance weapons. Think China giving mexico advanced weapons on our border for decades. That is what Putin has been griping about, for good reason.
>mikee said...
Dear Ice Nine: The US tankers in Berlin were potentially a speed bump should the Russians invade Europe after WW II. Many of the US infantry in South Korea still would be cannon fodder should the Norks fire their artillery. Those two examples of decades-long successful deterrence by mere US presence make me feel less than overwhelmed by your opinion regarding the utility of having a deterrent presence. And your Vonnegut-inspired scifi name is as nihilistic as your thought processes.<
Ah, well, had you had only given us a little hint that our choice of available inferences from your nebulous statement was to have been merely giving the Russians some showpiece deterrence instead of actual operational use, you would have then been guilty only of anemic certainty of success by fighting yesterday's wars today, and not, as it stands, simply of shoddy writing and literary ostentation.
Dude1394 writes, "You are cherry picking."
Astonishingly purblind comment, dude. As for cherry picking, you've done enough of that to go into the pie business.
You go on, "Putin has been griping about US/Ukraine encroachment upon them for decades."
Perhaps he has, but the only encroaching has been committed by Putin -- against Chechnya, Georgia, and twice before against Ukraine. Much as I loathe comparisons to Hitler, particularly the simpleminded calumnies favored by people such as Justin Trudeau, Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, and the übersimpleton called Joy Behar, Vlad Putin's rhetoric and behavior parallels the career of der Führer to a truly remarkable degree equaled only by the Kim dynasty and the Reichskanzler himself. Hilter griped volumes about the Czechs, the Poles, the French. Supposing any were of his "gripes" were objectly true (they were not), did those accusations justify what was done to Czechoslovakia, Poland, and France (not forgetting Beligum, Luxembourg, Denmark, Norway, Yugoslavia, Greece, the Soviet Union, North Africa, etc.)? Furthermore, aside from invading and enslaving nation-states, Hilter did little else than "gripe" about the Jews. Did his complaints justify Auschwitz?
Essentially, The Putin Principle amounts to nothing more or lass than the complete disregard of the fundamental rights of nation-states, that any nation-state that borders on the Russian Federation has no right of self-defence, that simply being armed against Russian aggression is unacceptable and complete justification for whatever action Putin and his war machine see fit to inflict.
Dear IceaNine, and Howward, good to know abject surrender to aggression is your first option.
One thing missed here is that there are a number of ethnic Russians in Ukraine. Most of them didn’t migrate there all on their own, but were a part of a Russification project by the Soviets. Ditto with the older generation knowing the Russian language. Several generations back, it was forced on Ukrainians by the Soviets. The Russians in the two breakaway provinces, as well as in the Crimea before then, were induced by Putin to want to rejoin their Russian cohorts. If the Soviets ever had questions about the loyalty of Ukrainians, they were answered by their welcoming the Germans in WW II with open arms. And thus the Russification of critical parts of Ukraine, in order to keep their access to the Black Sea (and the Mediterranean) in safe hands, with its warm water ports (that don’t ice over in the winter).
I actually learned some of this from UCLA law professor, and 1st and 2nd Amdt expert, Eugene Volokh, when asked why he was a native Russian speaker. His family were apparently Ukrainian Jews, who left the Soviet Union, when they finally allowed their Jews to emigrate. But before that, they spoke Russian, because it was forced on the non Russian Soviet Republics as the state language (and part of their Russification efforts). Father was apparently a mathematics professor, which is why they did family math problems (that you used to see at his Volokh Conspiracy), instead of the word games played in some families. My kid is a 4th generation math major (plus physics in their case), so used to forward them along when EV would post them.
>mikee said...
Dear IceaNine, and Howward, good to know abject surrender to aggression is your first option.<
What a stupid and baseless conclusion to derive from this discussion. Commensurate with your first one.
Dear Iceanine:
https://i1.wp.com/www.powerlineblog.com/ed-assets/2022/03/IMG_5287.jpeg?resize=600%2C600&ssl=1
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