We should strive to achieve some genuine views about process and legitimate tactics, but it’s hard to completely divorce them — you’d want to say extreme measures are legitimate to defend fundamental liberties, but then which causes are the fundamental liberties?
— Matthew Yglesias (@mattyglesias) February 19, 2022
February 19, 2022
Matt Yglesias wants process rights to vary depending on the substance. At least he admits it.
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115 comments:
Bill Maher quotes Trudeau.
holy crap Trudeau is a creep.
I think of this guy as famous because he's a shill for liberal nonsense.
I suppose he's smart enough to string words together, but that's about it.
He'd rather support thugs burning down cities and looting Prada salons.
What is the remedy if a high court were itself to exercise viewpoint discrimination in this manner?
More than a couple of people at the New York Times argued back in 2015 that traditional journalistic ethics were relative and did not apply when reporting on Donald Trump.
The bigger question is how much violence does he want the government to inflict to clear away those whose tactics he is against because he thinks their cause is bullshit.
In other words, left=good. right = bad. Freedom from silly mandates = right.
The fascist shitheads are saying the quiet part out loud now.
They live in a bubble. They think this is OK.
It is not.
People who supported this will be just like the Germans who supported Hitler telling their kids they would never support the fascists. When the regime falls nobody will have ever supported it.
Everyone will have supported the Truckers.
That is how these things work.
The Canadian truckers are fighting for FREEDOM which I dare say is the BEST CAUSE there is to Protest for. Yglesias just shows what an idiot regressive progressive he is. He was fine with BLM and ANTIFA burning down cities. So glad I am not on the side of the idiots who hate FREEDOM. Let's send them to Venezuela or Cuba when this is over. They would be happier there, so it seems.
Joe Smith said...
I think of this guy as famous because he's a shill for liberal nonsense.
Exactly.
He puts the words on paper the Oligarchs want people to see.
The Oligarchs pay well for this.
That is why our media is not concerned at all about making a profit.
Anyone who supports this drivel should rethink their life.
After 2+ years of crushing life-changing life-destroying lock-downs that ONLY hurt the working class (NOT the Castro Family billionaire dictator class/ Pelosi Family billionaire dictator class/ fancy ice cream in the $10,000 sub-zero- class) - - why are the left so heartless when it comes to the very class of people they claim to care about?
pack of Phonies.
basket of deplorables:
Trudeau
Pelosi
Clinton
Biden
Hunter
Biden's crook bother
Poot
"you’d want to say extreme measures are legitimate to defend fundamental liberties, but…"
I take issue with the claim, popular on the left, that the Canadian Truckers protest constitutes "extreme measures". I know the left is whining that the Truckers are bringing the economy to its knees, but my response to that is:
1) facts not in evidence. Canada seems to be getting along and,
2) a protest without a pressure point is easily ignored.
I'd call burning down businesses to be 'extreme measures'. Choosing not to show up at your job in order to stand in front of Parliament and sing Oh, Canada? Not extreme.
According the corrupt left "Freedom" is now a racist word.
Yglesias is a mid-wit who does his causes more harm than good. He gets linked a lot to point at him to laugh at him.
Admitting one is a hypocrite isn't like the first of a 12 step program. I don't see Yglesias trying to be better. All I see is him not wasting energy defending the double standard. Is that really better?
This reminds me of when Yglesias's co-founder of Vox, Ezra Klein, said that it was better that 10 innocent men were punished for rapes they didn't commit than that one guilty man went free, or something to that effect. Ezra Klein is now an Op-Ed Columnist at The New York Times.
Inside every progressive is an authoritarian clawing to get out.
Cancel Jordan Peterson! Speech crime! speech crime!
Of course, he’s the same guy who wrote that it’s perfectly OK to lie for a good cause, even journalists lying to their readers.
So why would anyone take anything he writes or says seriously?
And if one wants to go further back, remember he was a founding member of Journ-O-List
So really he’s just another lying Dem/Prog, but for some reason he says the quiet part out loud, either out of stupidity or just YOLO .
Different rules have always applied to different castes. As @Jack Posobiec often says, "It's not a double standard, it's a hierarchy."
A perfect embodiment of false logic that is easy when you are divorced from the hands-on world.
"It is possible for the mind to indulge in false logic, to make the worse appear the better reason, without instant exposure. But for the hand to work falsely is to produce a misshapen thing—tool or machine —which in its construction gives the lie to its maker. Thus the hand that is false to truth, in the very act publishes the verdict of its own guilt, exposes itself to contempt and derision, convicts itself of unskillfulness or of dishonesty."
—Charles H. Ham, Mind and Hand: manual training, the chief factor in education (1900)
Michele Goldberg in her NYT piece on the Canadian Truckers stumbled up on this contrast
“Imagine Occupy Wall Street, but set up by construction workers and military veterans with logistics training."
And we must not forget, the Trucker protest was having fun. No morose drum circles, bouncy castles and hot tubs. How gauche. Professors would not approve of such activism.
That's easy! Whatever the current liberal orthodoxies are will be fundamental liberties. Thus, BLM riots are to be supported, Canadian truckers not supported.
At the next general election in Canada the Conservatives will win - and bigly. For liberals to cheer the Canadian government is so stupid, because one day (in 2024?) Republicans in the US will win the House, Senate and White house and point to this precedent, which voters will also remember.
Yglesias thinks he’d have a kinder view of the truckers’ protest “if they were working for a good cause.”
They are, Yglesias. They are.
Yglesias should strive to achieve some genuine views on what the protest is about and stop the bigoteering. He's falsely ascribing certain views to the protestors as a group then essentially saying that these views justify ignoring their rights. But of course, it's important to preserve the rights of those employing similar tactics whose views he agrees with. Pathetic.
PJ O'Rourke has something to say.
After #Occupy, BLM, Antifa, J6, Parliament Hill--it's pretty clear.
The only legitimate protests, with limited to no restraints on tactics, are the ones government approves of.
What I have gradually realized over the last 20 years is that for Progressives, procedural safeguards (freedom of speech and association, equal protection, due process protection of individual liberty and property) are mere means to the end: triumph of the Progressive cause. Since their enlightened State embodies Justice itself, such bourgeois procedural guarantees are unnecessary, indeed are obstacles to, the final achievement of the utopian socialist end of history.
I don't know if I was deluded about liberals before 2001, or whether liberals themselves changed as they morphed into "progressives." That hardly matters now: what matters is what the rest of us can do about it, knowing their completely cynical and self-serving view of rights and law.
burning down businesses in poorer commercial neighborhoods is OK - as long as it's sanctioned by CNN and NBC.
If you "cross state lines!" to kill a white left antifa thug/child rapist who is trying to kill you first, you will be crucified by the liars in the hack press on CNN and NBC.
I wish liberal journalists, like Yglesias here, would make up their minds as to whether they love or hate the way Putin runs Russia.
I get the feeling their admiration varies, depending on the substance. 🙄
Many of the woke favor protests that undermine both the law and the economy, if the cause is the defense of a right newly discovered by the courts, or trying to bully a country that is largely free from racism into eradicating it completely. There is something sweet about saying "nonviolent," or better, "largely peaceful"--civil disobedience, as we used to say. But protesting for old-fashioned freedom of speech and association, possibly without the benefit of municipal permits? Disobedience is disobedience, they say. Canada's Prime Minister and (female) Deputy PM (the latter has shown at various times she's more of a leader) seem insane with rage at the truck protestors. Freeland the Deputy went on TV and cackled with glee: we have taken away their money, and we are going to take away more money.
Freeland has said the protests threatened both "our democracy and our economy." At no time was Parliament or any court or agency prevented from functioning, except for the day the police said: you have told us to remove them all, it is safer if Parliament doesn't meet. I know of no evidence of serious harm to the economy.Two lies in one sentence.
I hope Matt Yglesias gets to eat the stew he wants to see served to others.
So glad I am not on the side of the idiots who hate FREEDOM. Let's send them to Venezuela or Cuba when this is over.
A lot of my students are in favor of "socialism" or even declare themselves Marxists. I ask them why nobody is riding inner tubes to get into Cuba? Why has half the population of Venezuela left over the last ten years? Why aren't people sneaking in to North Korea?
My question is why can't people learn from history? If the 20th century proved one thing, it was that Marxism and communism are evil. I work with several history teachers who call themselves Marxists. (One of whom, among other problems, has no idea who Betty Friedan was)
Freedom from tyrannical mandates isn’t good enough for progressives. It’s too real. They prefer to tilt at metaphorical windmills like systemic racism or the fake murder epidemic of racist cops. You know, fake news loves fake issues cuz they never get “solved” cuz there is no cure for the mental illness that is Leftism.
So the woman on a mobility scooter, trampled by a horse dog faced pony soldier's horse in Ottowa, was not only a Mohawk elder, but indigenous citizens of Canada were specifically exempted from the abrogation of civil liberties, err, I mean the declaration of martial law, err, I mean the "Emergency" declaration.
You know who forced the trucker vaccine mandate on Trudeau? The same guy who told him he better use all of his "federal power" to end the peaceful demonstrations, if you still haven't guessed, his name is Joe Biden.
Well, at least he's not being a hypocrite, because that's the worst part.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ljaP2etvDc4
Watch this press conference by the Canadian Public Safety Minister, Marco Mendicino, to see how much hot air is in these claims of extremism. Strong claims which melt under penetrating questions from the press. Really challenging questions like "What is the name of this organization you claim poses a threat." (BTW, this is what a real press looks like).
Matt Yglesis has always been a stalinist at heart. Or a "liberal fascist" is you wish to use that terminology.
Like many on the Left, the results are what matter. If civil liberties help the Left gain or hold power, he's in favor. If not, he's against them.
The current definition of misinformation is making a statement that goes against the regime.
"Matt Yglesias wants process rights to vary depending on the substance. At least he admits it."
===========
My impression was that the vaunted system of rule of law will be >>>
to process = check and identify validity of the claim = 'alleged substance'
I agree with Matthew Inglacias. If the truckers were protesting something substantial like low pay and not their XiCom RT propaganda induced paranoid delusional temper tantrum, than I might support their cause.
The ability to control what goes in your body seems pretty fundamental. Also being free to earn a living also seems fundamental.
What is the argument here ??
"The Oligarchs pay well for this.
That is why our media is not concerned at all about making a profit."
Read a compelling piece on this awhile back. Since the subscription numbers have cratered, the profit source for the media is no longer advertisers. It is instead political organizations. This is great for the left-wing press. They make money writing the things they always wanted to but couldn't under the old system.
The left went from ‘Workers of the world unite!’ to ‘Workers of the world obey!’ so quickly that I barely noticed…
Fen’s Law remains undefeated.
It is interesting how our modern "Left" reacts to a true organized-from-the-bottom-up proletarian political action. Because that's what this was, class-wise. It was definitely the proletariat in action.
I mean, so what if things got a little unruly. So what if there was a Confederate or Nazi flag or two? Do you expect a proletarian uprising to come with linen napkins & the salad fork placed before the entree fork? Puh-leeeze! Marx and Bakunin would laugh their asses off at such Prissy Little Things who thought the Revolution would arrive and no crockery would get broken! History is on the march & we can't be bothered with trivialities!
How can Lefties who read theoreticians who whacked off to the dream of The General Strike against the Dictatorship of the Bourgeoisie (AKA liberal democracies) now come face to face with a true General Strike, and their reaction is to be simply appalled by those Uppity Deplorables?
The reaction to the Canadian Truckers brings us face to face with a foundational problem with the modern post-Marxist Left, in both its moderate & more extreme wings -- exactly what is it you guys believe? Do you even know?
As we speak the Canadian SS is crushing the untermenschen truck people in Ottawa who are about to be replaced by self driving Chinese electric trucks anyway. Marxist Supremacy.
Shorter Yglesias: My right to protest should never be contingent on your right to protest.
Matt's starting to look like an emoji for Andrew Sullivan
The left went from ‘Workers of the world unite!’ to ‘Wokers of the world unite!’
FIFY
The obvious answer to his question is to apply the law and it’s protections of individual liberties equally regardless of political persuasion. He won’t say that because he wants legal advantages for his neo-Marxist causes.
This guy Iglesias seems to operate without knowledge of America and our legal framework. He also reveals a low level of consciousness when he admits he thinks of people in political and other categories.
I’m OK with America having elites, but this guy and those like him just are not elite.
From your mortgage to your mobile bill, the infrastructure has been built out through the era of the Patriot Act (remember that?) and the CFPB (remember that?) to get and store the data needed to basically "turn you off" at any time. The degree of recourse you have to defend against that is what the rule of law is about, but emergency decrees bypass all that nonsense.
The government has all it needs to root out terrorists and terrorism. The rub is who defines what terrorism means and to whom the term may apply. When you see the "rooting out" happen on the ground it takes a lot of medicine to convince yourself it isn't real. Hiding the truth helps, but it leaks out in inconvenient places.
The only way to make it work is to convince yourself that they had it coming. That's easier for some than others.
Did anyone mention: who whom?
"the modern post-Marxist Left, in both its moderate & more extreme wings -- exactly what is it you guys believe? Do you even know?"
There are no sources to refer to, because the Soviets were very good at laundering their disinformation.
How about this?
"Gov. Brian Kemp Pushing For Looser Gun Laws As Data Shows Black People Are Shot The Most
Gun violence is a serious problem in the black community and a solution was never mentioned by Gov. Kemp as he touted the 2nd amendment in front of his NRA buddies."
https://newsone.com/4271508/gov-brian-kemp-pushing-for-looser-gun-laws-as-data-shows-black-people-are-shot-the-most/
Howard said...
I agree with Matthew Inglacias. If the truckers were protesting something substantial like low pay and not their XiCom RT propaganda induced paranoid delusional temper tantrum, than I might support their cause.
Making choices about what you have stabbed into your own body is not a freedom Howard supports.
If the State mandates you take a medicine and support the Corporate cronies like Pfizer you kneel in Howard's country and comply.
Howard is a piece of shit corporate fascist and I look forward to him lying to his grandchildren about supporting Trudeau.
After they are crushed and humiliated.
I don't think Iglesias is necessarily wrong to have more tolerance for some "disruptive" protests over others, depending on the cause. But anyone who thinks the Canadian trucker protest is less worthy than the 2020 riots has got a screw loose.
Canadian protest: Disruptive of commerce, but peaceful; and protesters are fundamentally unhappy with government officials' un-legislated assumption of near-dictatorial powers in the name of supposed "health emergency" and the imposition of edicts that have no apparent basis in actual medical science.
2020 riots: Disruptive of commerce, but also resulted in the death of dozens of people, injuries to many more, destruction of countless buildings and businesses; and protesters were fundamentally unhappy with police because they incorrectly believed that blacks stood a higher chance than whites to die from an encounter with police when the opposite is in fact true.
I think we can all agree the ends justify the means for our cause but not theirs.
Duke Dan said...
The ability to control what goes in your body seems pretty fundamental. Also being free to earn a living also seems fundamental.
What is the argument here ??
The argument is you are a peasant and you are too stupid to make you own choices.
See Howard above.
If the people who funded the development of COVID like the NIH and Fauci then mandate you take a vaccine making corporations like Pfizer more profits you kneel peasant.
You can only question low wages.
Browndog said...
After #Occupy, BLM, Antifa, J6, Parliament Hill--it's pretty clear.
The only legitimate protests, with limited to no restraints on tactics, are the ones government approves of.
BLM just posted bail for a guy who tried to shoot a candidate because he was a Jew.
They did it with Oligarch money.
Things could not be more obvious right now.
Our standard now is, only protests I agree with should be allowed. At least that statement is honest, yet immoral to the core.
“exactly what is it you guys believe? Do you even know?”
Whatever the wrapper of justification is, elites believe in the maintenance of their own power and privilege.
like this instance
https://twitter.com/sandruhann/status/1495067587067138049?s=28
No, Matt, there's one set of rules that every set of "legitimate protesters" has to follow.
Because your definition of "fundamental liberties" is entirely divergent from ours, and so what you're saying is "the government gets to decide who is allowed to protest".
Which is the same thing as saying "you have no right to protest".
Understand that every single thing you say in favor of the Trucker's protest being crushed is going to be said by GOP Governors and Presidents as they crush your protests
And the only people who will be objecting to the crushing will be the people who are already on your side, because everyone will understand that all your excuses and defenses are utter bullshit
There IS no more "fundamental " of a "liberty" then the right to go about your life unimpeded by the government. When you impose "vaccine mandates" / "vaccine passport requirements" etc you are violating that fundamental liberty.
When you do it in favor of a "vaccine" that does not actually decrease transmission of the disease it's supposed to target, then there is no countervailing "fundamental liberty" on your side that you're protecting.
You're just being an authoritarian thug.
So, when people decide to run over BLM / Antifa thugs who are blocking the road, and no jury is willing to convict, because every jury has at least one person who heard you lefties support the Canadian gov't for destroying the Trucker's peaceful blockades, now that you created the situation.
News flash: no one with a functioning brain accepts the argument "it's ok when MY protesters do it, it's just wrong when teh other side does it."
No one
"if they were working for a good cause rather than a bad one"
Why is opposing a vaccine mandate a "bad cause"? It might have been, if vaccination had stopped transmission. But it doesn't. In particular, a mandate for cross-border truckers doesn't do anything to the spread.
Worst-case scenario: non-vaxxers get sick. But we allow lots of people to do things that increase their odds of getting sick. What's so special about Covid that wouldn't apply to obesity and rock-climbing?
But even the getting sick depends on who doesn't get vaccinated. Omicron is mild for almost everybody and healthy adults face no unusual risk. Since there is little risk left to reduce, besides the very old and people with four or more comorbidities (per the CDC), mandating vaccination cannot have a major effect--in particular, in the case of truckers who already appear to be 90% vaccinated.
Trudeau could easily have declared victory for public health, if public health had been the priority.
You may not like Matt's views but you have to admit one thing:
He's a chick magnet.
Blogger Howard said...
I agree with Matthew Inglacias. If the truckers were protesting something substantial like low pay and not their XiCom RT propaganda induced paranoid delusional temper tantrum, than I might support their cause.
No, you would never support the cause of such a physical group. You are the classic laptop class lefty. I'll bet you would even have your 5 year old kid vaccinated. Even my Bernie bro daughter agreed that there are no long term studies of the effect on kids. I also agree with the right of people to refuse a drug that has not had long term results studied.
Trudeau is your perfect model of the boy dictator. You would be genuflecting.
Matt is a chick magnet---maybe for Rhode Island Reds.
I'm a Moderna man, Achilles. You people love the idea of a Citizen Militia and the gun rights thereunto pertaining. However, when the Militia is called to duty, you people are draft dodgers at best, but most are traitors.
Go listen to Sebastian Junger on Peter Attia's podcast.
"If the truckers were protesting something substantial like low pay and not their XiCom RT propaganda induced paranoid delusional temper tantrum, than I might support their cause."
You have missed the point. The question is not "do I agree with the truckers' cause?", it's "should the legitimacy of a protest be dependent on whether or not we agree with it?" That is, in a free society, do people we disagree with have the same right to protest as those we agree with. Matt, in his proto-fascist way, is saying no. He's quite willing to let the authorities use their power to crush the protest because he disagrees with the cause.
"You people love the idea of a Citizen Militia and the gun rights thereunto pertaining."
You sure have a fetish for the phrase "you people". It suggests you aren't so much trying to add to the debate as to indulge your own prejudices with those who have a different world view. It makes even some of your more reasoned arguments look like stupid ad hominem attacks. You end up convincing no one of anything.
A conservative criticism of John Stuart Mill was that Mill only demanded freedom of thought because others hostile to his ideas predominated and ruled society. If Mill's ideas of science and humanity became orthodox, they said, he'd enforce them with as much vigor and severity as his opponents enforced the orthodoxy of their day. Similar criticisms have been made of the ACLU, and whether or not they were valid in their day, they do seem to reflect the current reality.
As with Michelle Goldberg yesterday, Yglesias strikes me as "insufficiently dialectical." If I went to Ottawa, I'd be looking for the various currents and countercurrents and trying to fit together what was going on. Goldberg and Yglesias just take it for granted that the protesters are reactionary and wrong, largely just because they belong to the other tribe.
Blogger Greg The Class Traitor said..."and so what you're saying is "the government gets to decide who is allowed to protest.
Which is the same thing as saying "you have no right to protest"."
That says it all.
Point taken, Chris. However, protesting that violates the law and is disruptive to everyone else's freedom of movement is inviting police action. That's part of the whole purpose of disruptive protesting to attract media and public attention to the cause.
As they say, don't do the crime if you can't do the time.
The problem is, some of us are willing to go the the last extreme in defense of liberty. And the leftists are starting to push the boundaries. The problem with that is some people have less tolerance than others, and you might reach their last extreme and then what you have is a spark. And you have to pray that it does not ignite a civil war.
"However, protesting that violates the law and is disruptive to everyone else's freedom of movement is inviting police action."
If such laws were equally applied, you would have a point. The problem is that such laws only tend to get enforced against protests the state disagrees with. In effect, the state is deciding which protests are allowed and which aren't. Matt is ok with that as long as he also disagrees with the protest.
Blogger Greg The Class Traitor said..."and so what you're saying is "the government gets to decide who is allowed to protest.
Which is the same thing as saying "you have no right to protest"."
Further, the protests that are allowed are, in fact, pro government organized actions.
Howard said...I agree with Matthew Inglacias. If the truckers were protesting something substantial like low pay and not their XiCom RT propaganda induced paranoid delusional temper tantrum, than I might support their cause.
If you supported their cause, you’d support their cause? That’s nice. The real issue is not your support for their cause, but your support for their rights—does that change based on whether you support their cause? If yes, then you might be a fascist.
Whatever happened to “Do Unto Others As You Would Have Them Do Unto You”? Are people failing kindergarten?
I was just honking my horn, eh.
- Matt Yglesias's position is that of a partisan, and a petty one at that.
- Despite this, he tries to phrase it like he is being a high-minded, principled person, despite anyone with a minimal amount of insight seeing he is exactly the opposite.
- He is a glorious example of our "elite," a person of no substance and completely undeserving of the position he is in, who only cares about himself, who we are all supposed to pretend is our better.
If you want the TL:DR version, Matt is useless.
Howard said...
I'm a Moderna man, Achilles. You people love the idea of a Citizen Militia and the gun rights thereunto pertaining. However, when the Militia is called to duty, you people are draft dodgers at best, but most are traitors.
Go listen to Sebastian Junger on Peter Attia's podcast.
I prefer to let you fascist douchebags punch yourselves out. Now that you have trampled women to death for everyone to see decent people wont have anything to do with you.
Trudeau marched with BLM while they looted and burned and murdered. We know you support violence.
In 10 years you are going to pretend you never supported Moderna/Pfizer/Joe Biden/Fidel Trudeau.
That is what soulless pieces of shit do.
The problem is that such laws only tend to get enforced against protests the state disagrees with. In effect, the state is deciding which protests are allowed and which aren't.
Well, heck, if the Bad People are afforded the same rights as the Good People, then there's no point in trying to be Good, is there...?
Trudeau and his crew are this century's Lester Maddox and George Wallace. Apparently the meeting with Robert Byrd's good friend and student set their course. Meet the new boss, same as the old boss.
Something bout the morals that they worshipped will be gone.
Matt is the self-appointed arbitrator of who will be allowed to demonstrate in this country and in other countries. He is not in favor of the right to assemble for everyone… just for some people. If you are a white middle class working guy driving a truck and want your freedom back, you are not allowed to demonstrate according to Matt Y. If you are a POC or a POS who riots and violates other people’s rights (burning, stealing, murdering, etc.),that’s good with Matt Y…until they come for him in his neighborhood. Matt Y is another typical living room liberal. Yeah, Matt Y is a real chick magnet, ugh!
Howard said...
I agree with Matthew Inglacias. If the truckers were protesting something substantial like low pay and not their XiCom RT propaganda induced paranoid delusional temper tantrum, than I might support their cause.
***************
Once again, Howard acts as though the Sun itself shines out his much-reamed fundament.
Earnest Prole said...
I think we can all agree the ends justify the means for our cause but not theirs.
*************
Of course. Antifa and BLM burning down and looting businesses, doing $2 billion in damage, and killing dozens in the process, is a "means" justifying an "end" every bit as good, just and noble as the Truckers' peaceful demonstrations.
Honking horns is exactly like committing arson and breaking plate glass windows to get at Vuitton bags.
If you were the knife in the kitchen drawer, Prole, you would be the clam knife.
Skeptical Voter said...
Matt is a chick magnet---maybe for Rhode Island Reds.
Please. Rhode Island Reds have far too much sense to be attracted to him
Howard said...
Point taken, Chris. However, protesting that violates the law and is disruptive to everyone else's freedom of movement is inviting police action.
So, you were all in favor of police arresting BLM and Antifa "protesters" whenever they violate teh law?
You supported Trump when he sent the police to arrest some of the Portland rioters?
No?
So it only "invit[es] police action" when it's done by the other side?
You might want to stop digging
However, protesting that violates the law and is disruptive to everyone else's freedom of movement is inviting police action. That's part of the whole purpose of disruptive protesting to attract media and public attention to the cause.
Howard, I guess that's why all those ANTIFA and BLM protestors went to jail. Oh wait...
Tim: they blocked up roads because it's disruptive and illegal knowing the cops would eventually clear them out. The Canuck truckers are getting exactly what they wanted: publicity and sympathy. Ultimately the Canadian voters will decide if they were right.
You people and your over the top emotionalism is a perfect example of republican feminization induced by the first female man president DJT.
Ouch, Achilles. That's really unfair lol 😂. It reminds me of one of my favorite quotes
Tyler Durden:
You're not your job. You're not how much money you have in the bank. You're not the car you drive. You're not the contents of your wallet. You're not your fucking khakis. You're the all-singing, all-dancing crap of the world.
Howard, the whole point of civil disobedience is to disrupt the routines of people. It has successfully been employed -- in a non-violent way -- for years. When people smash windows, set businesses on fire, assault or kill people, it's no longer civil disobedience -- it's a riot. Apparently, riots are okay with you, but honking horns and blocking a roadway aren't.
By your standards marching across a bridge in Selma AL is bad and setting fire to a courthouse is good. I, and others, disagree.
YoungHegelian said...
...the modern post-Marxist Left, in both its moderate & more extreme wings -- exactly what is it you guys believe? Do you even know?
Their own innate superiority (both intellectual and moral) to the rest of us. That's the reason they treat the protesting truckers like a gang of misbehaving pets. It's also the reason that they can't understand why the public is tired of vax and mask mandates. The uppermost thought in their minds is that there must be insurance against one of us inferior knuckle-draggers coughing in their general vicinity and getting one of them sick. They have become malicious narcissists and like all narcissists they see the rest of us as objects for furthering their goals. And they want those objects to shut up and get back to work.
What will they do if research shows that minorities sustain head injuries while biking at higher rates than whites? Require helmets? Ban bicycles?
Howard said...I'm a Moderna man, Achilles.
You're a Moderna Prometheus and not all a Freie Gemeinder. You belive in the leftist notion that science and in particular Big Pharma will deliver us from evil. You're a believer in the COVID covenant.
Let’s give Ygliesiuz his idea of due process for his crime of stupidity
Let’s give Yglesias his idea of due process for his crime of stupidity.
Your just making shit up Steve.
Howard said...
Ouch, Achilles. That's really unfair lol 😂. It reminds me of one of my favorite quotes
Tyler Durden:
You're not your job. You're not how much money you have in the bank. You're not the car you drive. You're not the contents of your wallet. You're not your fucking khakis. You're the all-singing, all-dancing crap of the world.
Tyler Durden was right.
You are what you do.
You support a two tier justice system where your side can "protest" however they want. Your side gets to burn police stations. Your side gets to loot stores. Your side gets to steal other people's stuff.
Your political opponents cannot even stand in the street peacefully. And you support your political opponents getting beaten and stomped by the police. You support them having their livelihoods destroyed and being fired from their jobs. You support your political opponents having their businesses looted and burned by mobs, and having their bank accounts stolen by the government. You support unarmed women being shot.
You are just a piece of shit that is completely incompatible with a free society.
businesses looted and burned by mobs, and having their bank accounts stolen by the government. You support unarmed women being shot.
All's fair in lust and abortion. And they're not going to lose their religion in the foreseeable future.
Howard said...
I agree with Matthew Inglacias. If the truckers were protesting something substantial like low pay and not their XiCom RT propaganda induced paranoid delusional temper tantrum, than I might support their cause.
***************
Scratch a liberal, you'll find a fascist. Every time.
@Howard, I'm not creating a fantasy. There really were German Shepards with arms and legs in their jaws in Selma during a non-violent protest march. (I was alive then; maybe you weren't.) Courthouses, police stations, and businesses really were burned during riots in Minneapolis, Kenosha, and Portland.
I'm not some projectionist in the back of the cinema showing fake newsreels or videos and reporting that the events happening were "mostly peaceful." Maybe it's time for you to stop projecting your fantasies in your mind's eye and trying to convince others to not believe their lying eyes.
“I agree with Matthew Inglacias. If the truckers were protesting something substantial like low pay and not their XiCom RT propaganda induced paranoid delusional temper tantrum, than I might support their cause”
Everyone has criticized this already, so sorry to be late to the party.
But also important here is to understand that these vaccines are not safe - they did not go through normal FDA testing. I think that it was Pfizer that both removed a subject from the test when he encountered what we now know to be side effects of their vaccine, AND unblinded their study, and gave all their control group their vaccines, making long term follow up impossible. Normally, either one would have voided the study. Nope. They have too many people paid off.
And, then there is the question: WTF are they demanding that truck drivers, who sit all day in the cabs of their trucks, with, at most one other, now days usually their spouses, be vaccinated? Who are they claiming to protect (ignoring that the vaccines are dangerous, and don’t keep people from passing the virus on)? Making things worse, they are truck drivers in the winter in Canada. They step out of the cabs of their trucks, and any virons they expel die immediately in the cold, probably before they can blow away in the frigid wind. The government mandate that truckers need to be vaccinated is completely brain dead. They are requiring that this class of workers, with negligible danger of infecting anyone else, or being infected, while working, be injected with a dangerous, experimental gene therapy with significant known side effects. Just because they can.
The only principle in politics is whose ox is being gored. Stop pretending to be a voice of reason when all you really mean is it's OK when we do it.
The left hates it when workers get uppity, suddenly that same powerless working class becomes fascist. Howard knows what is best for them, they should just let him rule them and get back to work bringing food to the cities.
At the same time, hundreds of thousands of people a month with no vaccinations are pouring over our southern border and nobody gives a shit.
Lots of lack of consistency on all sides regarding this issue.
I guess to the Howards et al truckers aren't the right kind of working class.
And it is about jobs, Howard. The truckers are protesting Canadas arbitrary mandates that don't account for natural immunity. They are objecting to quarantine for 14 days after they cross the boarder from the US to Canada. 14 days where they can't make a living.
Freeman Hunt said...
Lots of lack of consistency on all sides regarding this issue.
Oh do enlighten us.
Please detail this lack of consistency on all sides?
No loopholes. No extreme measures.
No excuses. No violence.
I just want to point out that Yglesias is not far left. He started out at Harvard as a heterodox writer on the Crimson defending the Iraq War. Most recently he was forced out of Vox, which he co-founded, because he wasn’t lockstep left. His Substack, Slow Boring, is heterodox center left. Now maybe a lot of the folks here don’t see a difference between the far left, comprised of the old fashioned socialists like Bernie, the new fashioned “anti-racist”, identity and grievance policy wokerati, and the Climatistas, and the center left, people like Larry Summers and lBari Weiss. That’s your problem, not his.
Here's a useful rule of thumb: in evaluating questions of right and wrong, liberty and it's opposite, and pretty much anything, State-fuckers such as Howard, Trudeau, "liberal" columnists, et al, are the last people you should listen to. It's like going to some filthy bum on the street for advice on personal hygiene.
Douglas B. Levene said...
Now maybe a lot of the folks here don’t see a difference between the far left, comprised of the old fashioned socialists like Bernie, the new fashioned “anti-racist”, identity and grievance policy wokerati, and the Climatistas, and the center left, people like Larry Summers and lBari Weiss. That’s your problem, not his.
So long as they think it's ok for BLM to do it, but it's not ok for anti-Left protesters to do it, they're hard-core left wing worthless sack of shit.
Stop insulting Bari Weiss by lumping her in with Yglesias. Among other things, she's been respectful to the truckers, and opposed to the fascist Trudeau response
"Matt Yglesias wants process rights to vary depending on the substance."
I'll bet Matt Yglesias also wants speech rights to vary depending on what's being said (and perhaps who's saying it).
I can think of 10 amendments to the Constitution that are fundemental. Without any one of them we become just another so-called democracy like Canada or any of the European states.
Douglas B. Levene said...
"I just want to point out that Yglesias is not far left."
-OR-
He's not a member of the Judean People's Front, he's in the People's Front of Judea. BIG difference.
"I just want to point out that Yglesias is not far left." Far or near, they're all statists, and all want to fist you with the Mailed Fist of the State.
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