"That’s been a dream in our community for half a century — one the State Journal editorial board will continue to promote.
For now, though, the mayor insists her snazzy and long BRT buses must run up and down the top half of State Street. We don’t agree with that decision, and we hope a future mayor thinks bigger about Downtown’s potential.... As soon as the weather improves this spring, Madison should cordon off lower State Street on weekends and give a longer pedestrian mall a try. Assuming the extra space is popular — and we’re confident it will be — Madison can then pursue remaking at least half of State Street into a permanent mall without vehicles, similar to Pearl Street in Boulder, Colo.
Madison should make this the summer that its most famous street comes roaring back after years of struggle."
Write the editors of the Wisconsin State Journal, after a public transit consultant hired by the city recommends new bus routes that avoid the lower half of State Street (the 3 blocks closest to the University).
Posts
41 comments:
What happened to all the plywood art?
But the Mayor wants Bus Rapid Transit on State Street! Equity! Diversity! Other Buzzwords!
Eventually there will be an incident where a Black will try to evade or resist arrest.
That incident will cause a riot that will wreck State Street.
You can't have nice things anymore.
"a grand promenade and urban park with sidewalk cafes, public art, trees, live music, small business kiosks and more."
But not from November to March.
By the way, how many people in Madison actually ride the bus?
"Sebastian said...
By the way, how many people in Madison actually ride the bus?"
In the white areas? When I lived there, almost none. You would see empty buses driving around all the time.
If this is a vision that can be done by simply rerouting buses and a few other changes to traffic patterns, it should be done. These sort of walking, pedestrian areas of cities are appealing to more and more people. And it'll be a difference maker in quality of life for years to come.
On the other hand...Nicollet Mall in Minneapolis used to have some kind of feel to it as well. I suspect it was burned down for justice back in the St. George days, but I don't know that for sure. The good news for Madison is that if you did this, you would not have to worry about cars interfering with protests along Main St. There would be plenty of viable protest space.
State st. in Santa Barbara did this. Makes for a great experience in those blocks but adds a fair bit of inconvenience.
So they are trying to exclude the elderly and disabled from this space. What of the people who can’t walk from the parking areas? Seems like young people trying to create a space for themselves out of public space that should be open to all.
OK. Who grifted? I smell a grift.
Grafton Street in Dublin is a huge success as a pedestrianized street.
We have failed to learn the lessons from the 1970's. Dozens of small to medium cities killed their downtowns by making them into pedestrian plazas. The town near where I grew up did it. The closed five blocks of Main street to vehicles, built fountains and walkways and made the surrounding streets a series of one way loops to help traffic flow around it.
So everyone parked in lots in the back of the old Main street stores and entered through what had always been service entrances. When you did decide to go to another store on foot, knowing you would have to come back through the first store to get back to you car, there was no one else in the plaza area.
Sounds wonderful, except for the live music part. I can imagine some 2nd rate Dylan warbling on the Guitar. Or a 2nd rate band from Afghanistan playing middle eastern music. Talk about noise pollution.
I can see this working in a previous, kinder, gentler, time. Not now. Now urban parks like this are where shit goes down.
looks like pearl street in boulder is 4 blocks long
Mad town is starting with 3? but they want what? 6 blocks?
6 blocks is a long way to have to carry your Molotov cocktails and bricks..
Or, are they planning on turning the surrounding streets into parking areas for riot assembly?
Seriously, good luck with this. If (IF) you're going to do this, at least don't allow buses. Des Moines closed down Walnut street... Except they Didn't close it, they just got rid of car access (and parking). Kept the empty buses. Then wondered why No One shopped at the stores that were impossible to get to.
God forbid a "street" should actually allow automobile traffic! Many places are adding bike lanes, getting rid of auto lanes. I find this disgusting as a person who pays taxes to support streets and roads.
I remember when they did this to a part of downtown Boston. Buses weren't an issue because public transportation is underground in that part of the city. They blocked the streets to cars and widened the sidewalks. For awhile that area flourished, but by now all of the department stores have moved out, and the nice restaurants are all fast food joints. Upscale areas still exist in the city, but that part of the city has gone downhill. I have no idea why that happened. Just someone who is old enough to remember the initial excitement who is still around to see what it has become.
It will be great until Antifa and BLM get done with it.
Could they build a VR State Street to test out different configurations?
They'd have to recruit beta testers with assigned roles, ie, you're a disabled shopper who takes the bus; you're a schizophrenic homeless person who poops on the street, etc.
Good to know mass transit is expendable.
Years ago I was in a meeting with the Montgomery, Alabama City Planner. He was bemoaning the lack of bus ridership. (Even full, buses lose money, but half full in rush hours and less the rest of the day are a financial black hole.)
He told me the only routes that ran full were from the city center out to the wealthier parts of Western Montgomery. But, he said he would NOT be adding more service to those areas. He said something like, I'll be damned if I'll send buses out to those rich people.
My response? You should think about who rides the buses. You are hurting the working poor.
He looked confused and shut up.
So Madison wants the rich white people to live without the scourge of buses. I'm sure the current users won't be inconvenienced. Right?
Trying to prevent trucker convoys from protesting.
Just something else for People of Privilege (and I don't mean "White Privilege") to trash with impunity. Either leave it be or commit to policing it.
And BTW, how much is this going to cost us?
Maybe you could put in some fentanyl-dispensing machines, next to the tent area.
Could the new mall feature the big rock that the University had to move away? It could be presented as a Place of Healing where people could rest and ponder the elusive dreams of racial reconciliation.
If you don't like that idea, I've got more.
with... public art...
There goes the neighborhood
Rock Hill roofed over two blocks of downtown hoping to create a mall vibe.
It failed, but the politicians and developers benefited so it was all right.
You know how to encourage development? Cut the bureaucracy that makes it hard to run a business. Let the neighborhoods develop naturally. Get sanitation workers to clean up the streets and police to enforce the laws.
Top-down development always fails the people it's supposed to serve.
As I've commented before, as long as the BRT is routed to the inner loop of the capitol square, the only logical route for BRT to travel from the capitol square to Gorham/Johnson is State Street.
Personally, I think BRT should use the outer loop around the Capitol, not the inner loop. That way, at least that top block could also be a pedestrian mall. In fact, the whole inner loop should be a shared space, It's closed down for various festivals and events frequently and buese are often re-routed to the outer loop.
Anyway, maybe the WSJ editorial board should look at this map and figure out a different route for BRT:
https://www.google.com/maps/d/u/0/viewer?mid=1hxACBpVzY5J4A6T2CVinfdvQHPSGTQZr&ll=43.07438959362251%2C-89.38602250784326&z=16
Currently it's a major bike route and I don't see that going away as it is much safer than the alternatives (as well as downhill from Captiol to Library Mall, something I appreciated as a student on a bicycle).
I cannot imagine truck traffic will be barred (few back entrances), so lots of bikes, random trucks and parked trucks, and likely squad cars will mean only so pedestrian of a mall.
"We have failed to learn the lessons from the 1970's. Dozens of small to medium cities killed their downtowns by making them into pedestrian plazas."
Martin, I remember this as well. It was a major urban planning fad at the time. But I think you've got the causality a little backwards. No one then recommended pedestrian malls for healthy cities. My recollection is that the pedestrian malls were built as a last ditch effort to restore downtowns that were already in terminal decline. They weren't sold to the public that way. That would be too honest. But that was why they were built.
It's a shame, but that period has conditioned me to interpret any public proposal to convert streets into malls as an unintentional admission that the city fathers have written off downtown. However, I must admit that more recent projects seem to be more successful.
I will say that Pearl Street is lined with (or has nearby, just off Pearl Street) stores selling things that few people in Madison can afford (that's been my impression, at least, when I've visited). That and a lot of restaurants.
And why go downtown with no parking when you can park at Hilldale?
"You know how to encourage development? Cut the bureaucracy that makes it hard to run a business. Let the neighborhoods develop naturally. Get sanitation workers to clean up the streets and police to enforce the laws."
The goal isn't development- the goal is money to maintain and expand the bureaucracy.
State is already a pedestrian mall, but still has a car street running through for busses, delivery and emergency vehicles. They could choose to just run busses (standard or BRT) on the cross streets, though it that would increase travel time for some routes, but id’ be for it.
Right now it’s an odd hybrid that isn’t great as a busway or pedestrian walkway and outdoor dining area.
Lots of negativity voiced here regarding pedestrianization. I don't know the street, so have no particular opinion on its suitability, but it can and does work very well in some circumstances. I mentioned Grafton Street in Dublin, but Carnaby Street in London is also very popular and successful by any measure.
Ideally, all of State Street would become a grand promenade and urban park with sidewalk cafes, public art, trees, live music, small business kiosks and more.
Does it get cold and snow in Madison? I'm told it rains there too. I see lots of stores and restaurants that take orders from your phone that you can then pick up using their drive-thru. Or, I'm told, they deliver.
You know who really loves these car-free spaces?
Those little one inch human figurines used in architectural models.
They all look so happy and content!
So does this make it easier or harder for thugs to burn the city to the ground next time they have a sadz?
Does this make it easier or harder for thugs to mob retail stores and steal things they only want but don't need?
I vote for easier.
'with... public art...
There goes the neighborhood'
That's one of my urban safety rules.
If you're in an area with a mural on a building depicting BIPOCs, you're in the wrong neighborhood.
The same with any business on MLK boulevard.
I was in Boston by then, but they tried something like this with State Street in downtown Chicago at one point. It was a flop. One problem, as others have noted from elsewhere, is that they were still running buses in two lanes down the middle, which kinda killed the atmosphere.
>>I remember when they did this to a part of downtown Boston. . . . but by now all of the department stores have moved out, and the nice restaurants are all fast food joints.
I lived through that as well. I don't remember the specifics, but I looked it up and it was apparently done in 1983, when I was living in the Fenway (still do, but in a different part).
Macy's (nee Jordan Marsh) is still there. And the Roche Brothers grocery store has taken over some of the Filene's space across the (no longer) street.
At least until recently, there were still some good restaurants, e.g., Petit Robert (and the Marliave(!), which was a throwback to God knows when but has either recently closed or is about to close). And I thought Barbara Lynch or the like had dome something with the historic old German restaurant on Winter Place whose name, sigh, is eluding me. I doubt the pandemic has been kind to any that are left. Seaport may be a better bet for restaurants these days.
I haven't spent a lot of time downtown for the last three or four years, but my sense is that things have gone downhill recently. A lot of druggies, more random violence, etc.
--gpm
Erie, PA was early to the downtown mall business ...
The eight-block Peachfront-Sassafras project replaced a "slum" area with the Central Mall, but the suburban Millcreek Mall, opened in 1974, soon limited its success.
https://bit.ly/3oNkjTw
... and early to leave it. It snows in Erie.
So what happens if you own a house on State Street and that’s the street where your driveway opens onto?
An urban park is where one goes to get mugged or raped.
Post a Comment