"... although I had superior SAT & GRE scores. I got a government job by scoring well on their exam (and had the required sheepskin). I continued to be lazy by being highly efficient. My supervisors always praised my work and considered me a top employee even though I was putting in little effort. Eventually, I retired early. When I am not wandering around museums and the streets of foreign cities, I spend my time reading and philosophysing (daydreaming). I also post comments. There's a lot more to life than work."
Writes a commenter named Paerdegat at a WaPo advice column where the question comes from a man who is absurdly disgusted with his wife because she, unlike him, is not using the extra 30 hours — gained by not commuting to work — to be "productive." The remote work for both of them is full-time — in the field of law — and both completely fulfill household chores and cooking.
But he has "read 25 biographies, developed decent conversational skills in two foreign languages, upped my running program to the point that I am marathon-ready, and started volunteering for voter registration advocacy."
All she does with the leftover time is read fantasy novels — "books better suited to children" — watch some TV — not crap, but History Channel documentaries — something he calls "exercise," and this thing he puts in scare quotes: "unwind."
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70 comments:
The wife has plenty of time to masturbate
I have to think about this, but I don't have time now. I'm on the way to my Italian language class, after which I have to come home and work on a book I'm trying to write. Then I'll need to catch up on Althouse posts. I won't even get to my photography work today.
Retirement is becoming very full.
read 25 biographies, developed decent conversational skills in two foreign languages, upped my running program to the point that I am marathon-ready, and started volunteering for voter registration advocacy*
If you like those things- good for you! None of it is any more or less ‘productive’ than what the wife is doing. Are ya gonna take a job as a translator? Unless you’re a messenger between two places 26.2 miles apart a marathon is just someone(s) running around (I’ve run one)…
*’advocacy’ is a weasel word to imply action toward some (pointless) political goal.
All three act on their preferences. These are in some sense incommensurable.
The commenter is smart enough that s/he can be "lazy" by efficiently doing work, leaving time for what s/he'd rather do.
Wife does her job(s), then enjoys leisurely, low-taxing pursuits.
Husband does his job(s), then develops his interests and abilities to the fullest.
All three have a point. But presumably (paywall!) the advice question focused on the "agreement" to be productive, whatever it was, and the supposed breach of it. At what point do partners grow apart in what they want from each other and out of life? What did Hax say?
The poor woman married a tiger mom.
I think Heinlein stole it from someone else ('cause he was lazy), when he said...
"Progress isn't made by early risers. It's made by lazy men trying to find easier ways to do something."
It's none of his damn business what she does in her downtime. Everybody is different.
I’m usually suspicious of people who can’t turn off. They seem broken…
""I have been lazy my entire life. I just got by in school, including college where I finished near the bottom of my class..."
And he found a job in government.
He sucked the energy and life out of decent productive people so he could be a lazy piece of shit.
And I am guessing by the article he feels like everyone else is stupid and should just do what he did.
But if everyone did what he did the US would be Afghanistan.
Also guaranteed to be a lifelong democrat voter.
If they have that much free time on their hands, perhaps they should consider making babies.
I am highly efficient, which means I can get my taskings done quickly, get them done to the satisfaction of my superiors and clients, and not have to burn the midnight oil to do so. I did the grind when I was younger and don't regret doing that, it got me where I am today. And at my age (mid-50's) I am not seeking to create more work at work, I rather like enjoying the time I have doing the things that I enjoy doing.
Surprised the commenter is not winning currently because I’d expect selection bias for people who post comments on blogs.
Identify with the commenter? With the exception of working for the government, I *am* the commenter, right down to the early retirement, and museum visits, but I was even too lazy to get a graduate degree, and spent too much of my career traveling internationally to want to do it in retirement.
Why so many articles with people bitching and moaning about their significant others?
People who talk a lot about how they succeed without actually trying are usually full of sh*t. For some reason it's deemed cool to be seen to excel without actually putting much effort into it. The Italians have a word for it, sprezzatura.
I think the husband is possibly not so frustrated by the wife's lack of get up and go as he is annoyed that she doesn't express awe and admiration as much as she should at all that he's accomplished while she was reading Harry Potter and watching the History channel.
This does not sound like a marriage of true minds.
I don't want to pass judgment on either one. I am very industrious about some things and very lax about others. My husband is the same, about different sets of things. We are understanding with one another about it, even when - I know - each of our choices frustrates the other.
I identify more with the commenter though not exactly. I'm a conflicted Gen-X slacker. I recognize where I could have been doing things that were more 'productive' than sipping a glass of Kentucky's finest while reading blogs or listening to (mostly informational) YouTubes but I've also been taking care of household chores, doing fix up projects and repairs, and volunteering. It's been a mix.
Underachievers of the world, untie!
There's an old saying in the military which is attributed to various German generals, but basically goes, "Officers come in two flavors: stupid or smart, and industrious or lazy. Industrious and smart officers are very good for special projects and staff work. Stupid and lazy officers can be assigned to repetitive tasks which require little thought. Smart and Lazy officers are the best and should be assigned to command. They won't go looking to get into trouble and are smart enough to see and fix problems early. Stupid and industrious officers are dangerous and should be removed as quickly as possible." Personally, I would apply the same to any government bureaucrat: I want someone smart enough to identify and fix problems early, but not so industrious as to make life miserable for the rest of us.
As for the husband, I suspect that the wife's behavior is as much a response to his need to "improve" himself.
"...and started volunteering for voter registration advocacy."
Has he considered advocating that people *not* register to vote unless they intend to and do inform themselves politically and actually vote. (Otherwise, you are just advocating for padded registration rolls and enabling vote fraud.)
"... watch some TV — not crap, but History Channel documentaries...."
Seriously?! I learned about ambergris from a Mickey Mouse comic book, and the Seven Cities of Cibola from Scrooge McDuck. So, yeah. The History Channel.
I think this article belongs in the "humble brag" section rather than the "advice column." Maybe the "Am I the Asshole?" page.
The mother of a good friend of mine recently died a couple of years short of 100. Whenever I would meet her she would always be pleased to see me and made me feel special. Because of Covid the number of attendees at her funeral were limited but the service was broadcast on youtube. I was surprised to learn at the funeral that she had the same impact on almost everyone who she met. She was just an engaged person who took sincere pleasure in being with other people. That was her legacy. She didnt speak 10 languages fluently, she didnt achieve great things in academia or business, but she did touch the hearts of everyone she met. I would argue that she achieved more in her life than all of us who are intent on achievements. Its been quite chastening for me to consider that.
read 25 biographies, developed decent conversational skills in two foreign languages, upped my running program to the point that I am marathon-ready, and started volunteering for voter registration advocacy.
I'm with rehajm and Sebastien on this. All these activities sound pretty self-centered. What earthly good does marathon running do for anyone else? The writer is "being productive" by "producing" things (ephemeral things) for the writer's enjoyment. A better term for this would be "consumption," where free time is being consumed.
If the writer wants to be noble or productive in a non-selfish way, the writer would take a second job and give away the earnings, perhaps to children. The world would then be a better place because the writer would be producing additional wealth.
For once Hax is right. This guy does not like himself and is trying to run from those feelings by being 'productive'. She says later in the column that it looks like the couple will divorce. No doubt he will find himself a "productive' woman and wind up with a second divorce because they'll both be control freaks and constantly at cross purposes.
"People who talk a lot about how they succeed without actually trying are usually full of sh*t."
OK. Maybe it just didn't *seem* like work.
Where does the person get a gain of 30 hours per week from not commuting? Even if you allow for a 6 day work week, which is a stretch, that's 5 hours a day or 2.5 hours each way as a commute. Theoretically possible, of course, but unlikely. I call BS on the whole WP post. It won't be the first time an advice columnist made something up to spice things up.
25 biographies. I can almost see them lined up on his bookshelf. Virtually all biographies I've read in the last 10 years have turned plodding after the initial interest, like logging miles in a daily routine. But the virtue of it all! Serious. Not like bodice rippers and TV couch time.
Overachiever???
Which character do you most identify with?
I know you hate these "why didn't you write this instead" comments, but really, the poll question should have been:
"Who's the asshole?"
Reason I say so is because of this choice bit from hubby:
I have asked her to get counseling and a depression evaluation, but she has refused and thinks she is conducting herself “fine.” Do you have any suggestions, other than divorce?
Is there a term for a male Karen?
"...developed decent conversational skills in two foreign languages..."
I learned Thai for...a thing...
I doubt that husband has decent conversational skills in any language.
And all this time I thought sprezzatura was an ingredient in Philly cheesesteaks.
"He sucked the energy and life out of decent productive people so he could be a lazy piece of shit."
There is such a thing as IQ; it's not parceled out evenly. You can't make a guy work harder than he needs to to get the same level of productivity as his co-workers, because then he will just get promoted into some job he didn't want in the first place. "From each according according to his abilities" has always been where communism has failed. Capitalism is far superior on that front.
Read the update, wherein that super-catch of a man reveals that his lawyer job consists of contract review, while that lazy wife of his has a demanding job with emotional clients and high stakes life-saving cases.
Spoiler - this putz who brags "I am just a person who likes to go on all cylinders all the time" no longer has to put up with that lousy woman. They're not married anymore.
If you read everything over there, you'll see:
1. The husband noted the option of *divorcing* his wife for her shortcomings.
2. The columnist joked that divorce might be *her* best option.
3. It's revealed that the letter was taken from some other forum from last fall, that the couple did go into some kind of counseling, the man did gain better understanding of her perspective.
4. They are divorcing.
And another thing:
His law job is low-stress work with contracts. Hers involves clients in stressful situations and much more emotional excitement. He was a fool not to see that she needed to decompress at home while he was looking for more stimulation.
I always hate people who think everyone should be "productive". why is running a marathon anymore "productive" than reading a fantasy novel. Once you get past a certain point, excercise is just a hobby. Its not making you more healthy. Not being fat is healthy. Being 20 lbs underweight doesn't do much for you. Running 30 minutes a day - 3 or 4 times a week is all you need. Running an hour day achieves little extra benefit.
The same is true of Biographies. I read a lot of history, but i do it because i enjoy it. Obejctively speaking I might as well have read fantasy novels for the all real life benefit I get from it.
BTW, is this James Comey and his wife? I hear he has a lot of downtime these days.
The husband sounds like he needs lots of pats on the back acknowledging all those milestones! What a tedious man. Good riddance to him.
We all have different preferences, freedom to choose among them, and different drive and energy levels to make ourselves do them — this simple realization simplifies and even resolves a lot of this sort of drama and conflict.
Based on the quoted stuff, that dude sounds like an over-achieving, over-bearing Type A tool. Who gets a lot done, admittedly … gotta give him that 🙂
Life is what happens when you’re busy making other plans
I also am lazy and highly efficient. When something you have to do is boring, it's best to be done with it as quickly as possible. I finally bought a pill box this year, so I would only have to sort out my vitamins and prescriptions once a week instead of every day. I put my laziness/efficiency to work when I last had a "job" where I always figured out how to do everything faster than everyone else. I tried to give my employees tips so they could do the same but anything new seemed to be disturbing to them.
Examples of laziness/efficiency: using grocery pickup service, but when I have to visit the store myself, bag everything according to where it needs to be put away (freezer, refrigerator, bathroom, pantry), and knowing the appropriate route through the store to get everything quickly, which often involves leaving the cart at the end of an aisle and grabbing a few things; putting away washed dishes, I keep all frequently used utensils in the dish drainer, large utensils off to the side (like spatulas and large knives), all laundry goes in one load with no sorting, this works if you use a good detergent and warm water setting.
How many people who have been forced out of the workforce, or forced to work less hours, due to the pandemic and associated mandates, will not go back to their previous worklife once they can?
Very insightful, AA. I had a very stressful legal job in two different locales for almost 40 years.
I'm doing in retirement what I always yearned for: a low-stress, pretty decompressed life. Walking 18 holes 3 days a week is great, and I have time to indulge my other low-key interests. The wife used to enjoy occasionally going to nightclubs, but the lockdown put a lot of them out of business and we just kinda lost interest.
Like I tell my friends, I have an ML - a Masters in Loafing.
Sloth is the Mother of Invention. Persistence is the Father of Application.
The husband can clearly see, by comparing himself to his wife using every standard he chooses, that his way is superior. In light of this incontrovertible evidence, he concludes it is incumbent upon him to make her improve for her own good, for the good of the marriage and for the general good.
He ignores or is blind to myriad other factors influencing his wife's decisions and his own as well as his wife's needs and desires. In the process of doing all that good, he destroys the marriage and no doubt blames his wife who could have simply done as he she was told.
He must be a Prog.
I'm feewing put down by these last few days of man bashing by Althouse. It's just like the way sitcoms and commercials demeaning men and elevation of the woman. It hurts so bad I think the only solution is to Go Galt. Then Ann will regret her misopenistic psychological abuse.
I too have a big lazy streak. Not proud of it. But I have, most of my life, conquered it by getting myself in over my head in projects: house restorations, computer program development, music writing and recording, teaching overseas, etc. The projects force me to get off my ass and actually accomplish something.
So the lesson for today, boys and girls, is PROJECTS. Do them.
I fall somewhere in between. I'm trying to pick up some skills with all this extra down time, so I should identify with the husband. But I'm not as productive as him (conversational in 2 languages!? I'm working on 2, but I'm nowhere near conversational in either). On the other hand, I feel no need to push the people around me to do the same. At abase level, my wife is doing what I'm doing--she uses her time to pursue her interests. Her interests just happen to be talking on the phone and reading reddit.
Ann Althouse said...
If you read everything over there, you'll see:
In order to read everything over there I would have to give the WAPO money and support their information gathering efforts.
By even going to their website you are supporting them.
Don't make people feel like they should go to that website. It is a disgusting place owned by disgusting people who steal your information and sell it and spend their time lying.
If you want to delve into that fever swamp of lies and stupidity and post it here that is cool. Post everything here you want us to see and discuss.
But trying to get other decent people to go there and support that is not cool.
This scenario describes the difference between me and my one sibling. I put in an intense, focused day at work - I'm too fried to do anything terribly ambitious after that. I do things I call 'puttering'. She, on the other hand, keeps going and going and going and going...
I would not be surprised if she had a nervous breakdown one of these days. People like her seem to frustrated by the limitation of the 24 hour day and their own limitations.
So many today:
You must think as I think.
You must value what I value.
You must hate what I hate.
You must have the goals I have.
Or you will be one of the things I hate.
Lighten up Francis.
Personally, if I had extra time, I'd spend it reading. Some of my reading would be for pleasure, and some would be for self-education. But I would never presume that someone else with spare time should do the same thing.
Something I've learned over the years is that type-A personalities don't understand that not everyone can, or wants to, be like them. Type-As are always trying to change other people's personalities. It can be counterproductive at best, and abusive at worst.
Althouse writes
1...2...3...
4. They are divorcing.
I lol'd, as the kid used to say.
Great comic timing. You should do standup.
That reminds me. A friend sent my wife a Carlin video where he riffs on germ phobia. I was choking with laughter. I had forgotten how funny he was. He's be SO cancelled, today.
His point of view makes sense if you interpret it as the two of them having nothing in common. There is some assumption that married couples will have some common interests and from what I read that seems to be limited to household chores and having jobs. That's not a lot. It does appear he's not making an effort to find common ground, basically waving away her interests as useless and below his station. Perhaps he could have tolerated this longer if they were not spending more time together, making it more obvious.
I'm not saying he's in the right here. I'm saying he is what he is and the "is" is not compatible with his spouse. Unfortunate, but at this point I am puzzled how they ever ended up married in the first place.
He needs to be introduced to heavy drinking and watching sports on TV. Guy's a mess, who has completely lost his way.
"The thing is, Bob, it's not that I'm lazy, it's that I just don't care."
--"Office Space"
I’m usually suspicious of people who can’t turn off. They seem broken…
They are wired differently. I worked for a boss who was like that, and he acted like he was electrified. His brain was shooting off sparks, and he wasn't smart enough to direct it, so he was a little Hitler who shouted, intimidated, praised, and rewarded, all with equal energy and very little consistency.
There's a writer I know who is extremely prolific (yes, he self-publishes). Over the last five years, he's published hundreds of books, organized major conventions around the world, and helps maintain a major Facebook group devoted to the business side of self-publishing. He's also has a heart issue that required major surgery, and has admitted to burning through four wives. He admitted that he simply can't stop even if he wanted to.
While I admire his energy and charity, I'm happy I don't have to deal with him. He would trigger my PTSD from working for the boss from hell.
"Who's the asshole?"
I am kind of shocked by the voting that it wouldn't be unanimously the husband.
One of the less desirable traits of h. sapiens — in my experience much more pronounced on the left than on the right — is this notion that everyone should do whatever the complaining individual does and there’s something wrong with the others if they don’t. A little more tolerance and flexibility would be useful.
The husband needs a more demanding job, or to quit and do something he really wants to do. Maybe he can find work as a professional biography reader.
Anyone who’s spent more than five minutes around married people knows the purported issue here isn’t really the issue, therefore why have an opinion on it?
Tough call between wife & commenter - but I decided I do more comments now, rather than reading fun books (like #4 of 5 Cormoran Strike novels by Robert Galbraith nee JKR).
I also do some 30 min back exercise every (4-ish of 7?) day, plus an hour walk, usually with working wife. Retiring early, ready to be a grandpa (have 1, 2nd to other child due in March)
Ann did cover it, and their almost inevitable divorce, very well:
"He was a fool ..."
Or ... he's looking to improve his own Sexual Market Value and is, like Trump did but Bill Clinton was too cowardly to do, expecting to get a new, much younger and sexier, model. [Didn't stop Clinton from 23 adventures on Epstein orgy island ... but the FBI "lost" all video evidence. Surprise!]
None of the comments seem to mention sex - good marriages include good sex. And probably keep it mostly quiet.
The reality is that many, maybe most, divorced but still attractive, house-broken yet still sexy men are able to attract younger lovelies, especially with kids after divorce/ break from an actual a*hole.
All she does with the leftover time is read fantasy novels — "books better suited to children" — watch some TV — not crap, but History Channel documentaries…
Wait, what? The History Channel has documentaries? I thought that The History Channel got out of the documentary business in the mid-2000’s and started showing reality shows like “Ice Road Truckers” or “Curse of Oak Island”. In my opinion, these reality shows are crap!
From the post, the commenter's name is Norwegian idiom for "Tell you what..."
This post was brought to fruition by a Norski Hank Hill.
"A friend sent my wife a Carlin video where he riffs on germ phobia."
Here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l_L6AS1Huno
Wikipedia:
"...Carlin had a history of heart problems spanning three decades. These included heart attacks in 1978, 1982, and 1991; an arrhythmia requiring an ablation procedure in 2003; a significant episode of heart failure in late 2005; and two angioplasties.[75] On June 22, 2008, at the age of 71, he died of heart failure at Saint John's Health Center in Santa Monica, California."
Carlin [said he] wasn't afraid of germs but he SHOULD HAVE BEEN afraid of being a big, long-term user of illegal drugs:
"Videos of heart attack Cocaine":
https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=heart+attack+cocaine&qpvt=heart+attack+cocaine&FORM=VDRE
Not impressed.
How many Wordles does this guy do each day?
The commenter is absolutely me. Two 800s on SATs, president of a high-IQ society decades ago, government job, retired and now take long walks listening to podcasts. I consider raising my five sons and doing church/volunteer work to be far and awa y the most important things I have done. Reunions used to suck but now I am the one everyone looks forward to seeing again.
What was your religious training and liberal-arts education for if not to reflect for a couple of minutes every once in a while what is actually important in life?
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